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Are Food Stamps the Soup Lines of this Great Recession?
Bloomberg notes that, as of 2007:
In
Missouri, about 100 percent who were eligible [for food stamps] that
year took advantage of the program, the highest rate in the nation,
followed by residents of Maine and Michigan, at 91 percent and 89
percent, respectively ...
Things have gotten much worse since 2007:
As the New York Times notes, "one in eight Americans and one in four children" receive food stamps.
Many economists and financial experts have said that we are in a depression. See this, this and this.
I hope they are wrong, or that - if we were in a depression - we're out of it now.
But it is indisputable that the unemployment numbers are still grim. Specifically:
- More people will be unemployed than during the Great Depression
- Some of the top economists say that America has suffered a permanent loss of jobs
- By some measures, unemployment is worse than it was during a comparable time-frame in the Great Depression
- Vice President Biden said recently: "It's a depression for millions of Americans"
Given the above, Stacy Herbert's question of today is compelling:
The food stamps story seems to be one that keeps popping up; I guess food stamps are the soup lines of this Great Depression?
Note: At least some economists say that food stamps give more bang for the buck in stimulating the economy than just about anything else. And see this. But economic, political and moral questions surrounding food stamps are beyond the scope of this essay.
The so-called "social safety net" not only hides problems, it extends and exacerbates those problems. The root problem is debt and worthless paper money. These lead to unproductive labor, which are just idle hands, many of which will take actions that are not good. So, the corruption of the elite spreads to the common people and soon we have a malfunctioning society of people who don't try to care for themselves.
I can only sit and think: "holy shiite!"
Either China will implode
Or the EU will implode
Or the Fed will get audited and dynamited
Or Iran will nuke Israel
Or Israel will nuke Iran
Or our own economy will hit a tipping point and I will wish I had been a boy scout.
There still are soup kitchens, but actual soup lines have indeed by replaced by government issued debit cards. I don't believe things are nearly as bad in the 30s.
At that time there was no social security, medicaid, medicare, food stamps, etc.
And we had the dust-bowl going on then too (Grapes of Wrath and all that).
Even the unemployed can usually swing a cell phone, a car, and cable TV.
As a doc, I don't see starving malnourished people, I see ridiculously overweight people.
Go figure.
Sure, those programs weren't yet in existence in TGD. They were responses to it, in large part, and are now coming to the Ponzi dictated climax. Look at the original parameters for SS, much different than today. It is the same with most all progressive "nudges". They start out out sounding reasonable and end up as another straw in the Cloward-Pivin camel's back. I find it fascinating that FOFOA actually had an article where he described the ultimate Helicopter Ben moment as stimulus through Government issued debit cards. I don't see food assistance as this manifestation yet, but as retain numbers degrade, and Cash for Consumers gets yet another iteration (Caulkers, anyone?), it won't be long before Uncle Ben Cards will be making those cellphone payments directly. EUC cash payments can't be sufficiently "targeted" you know.
It may be no more than a dream, but imagine making food stamps only redeemable for heathy food. If the program could be tied in with making American's change their diet habits, cutting down on high saturated fat and sugars, the potential to make inroads into the obesity crisis in the country might in the long run save money on healthcare.
If it were seen as a national program to improve nutrient, it may also help remove the social stigma.
I suppose in reality, the politicians are in the pocket of the food industry and the media would portray it as communism, so the country will just continue to get lazier, fatter and more stupid.... but personally, I would be much happier knowing my taxes were paying to make people's lives better.
well, obesity epidemic solved.
GREEN SHOOTS!
Nial Ferguson was right, I was upset when he said we will "almost certainly" default on "domestic creditors" meaning Social Security and Medicare. There's no such thing as "unfunded liabilities" in Accounting 101, and with an open capital account no jurisdiction to recover the Really Big Black Hole. Let's say 10 years, tops. Boomers will get no more than 25 cents on the dollar of what their current benefits statements say (for those boomers not yet on Social Security and Medicare... which, reminding myself, the first boomer first started getting in September 2008).
Oh, they'll get 100% of all the dollars they are due. However each dollar will be worth only 25 cents.
A least the chinese are doing a bang up job....
When I see folks using their food stamp debt cards here in NC, they are generally buying name brand groceries and expensive cuts of meat, high end seafood and specialty breads. Ask any cashier at a high end grocery store if these folks are shopping frugally and they will just roll their eyes.
I'm NOT sure what the answer is, but my wife & I are angry we pay for these "poor" folks to buy better quality groceries than we do.
And examine the Churches who are feeding the hungry each week or month with food pantries.
We deliberately ran up a little debt of a few hundred dollars to get a freezer and a months worth of food into it so that if things get difficult we dont have to go shopping for food that week.
What makes me angry is I carefully count dollars and cents everything we consume while some migrate straight to the cashier with cigarettes, lotto and other vices while trying to live on a gallon milk and a bit of flour tortilla, beans. While driving a 50,000 dollar Escalade.
Give me a frigging break please.
You can spot assistance people very fast when they are using branded debit cards in the grocery line. It is not difficult to see if they are in need with a baby or children. Then again there are some who have sufficient body weight, bounce to their step and so on.
The experts predict that US jobs will not reach acceptable levels for at least 15 to 20 years. In that context what do we blame the most?
Could it be the fact we havent created any new US manufacturing jobs in at least 10 years?
Could it be that many American manufafactures have decided to move operations to Mexico and Chindia?
Could it be the labor force has priced itself out of the market place?
Could it be that US demand for cheaper and cheaper products has caused a flight away from good quality, high value US products?
Could it be the depression is self fulfilling, companies lay off workers to shore up earnings? Those laid off stop buying un-neccessary products with their non-existent discretionary income, the latter affected companies in turn lay off their workers to shore up their earnings, the mind map of that reminds us of an Escher print. Around and around we go.
Which of American companies will cut their dividend first to save valuable employees and the country?
Here is an article from NPR about cyberbegging:
http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=121211164
-- Phil
so all these people can't even make some zhu zhu hamsters or something?
Good Question WW
George we are at 37,921,000 and counting---8-10 jump on board the food stamp train each minute--we can imagine that a large % really need the card. The first question is the cost as every card recipient varies with the number of dependents the legal guardian claims--second question is how many cards have been issued-is it almost 38 million without dependents or with dependents? either way the average outlay is around $200 per month for every man/woman or child. At 7.6 billion per month and climbing,that in itself should be setting off tornado sirens but it is not -only in blogs such as ZH along with all that contribute here seem to have the sight to see.
mo-le ru-it sua it collapses from its own bigness
My heart is heavy after this reality check
I imagine many return some of the items ('I lost my receipt') to get what they really want: booOOooze!
Thanks WW just reminded me that I need that shot of Knob Creek I bought from one of Rusty's alkibonds-----down the hatch.
Good, as usual. Does the number of recipients = the number served? Does 37,000,000 + kidz = 100,000,000?
Waterwings,
No the 37 million is the total number of persons on Food Stamps.
And let me tell you that the program is totally rife with fraud and abuse.
I would estimate that between 25 and 33% of the cases on now are or should be ineligible. However, the verification requirements for most of Food Stamps is client statement...
I would tend to agree. Few people would be willing to stand in a food line for an hour to get a crust of bread and a bowl of hamburger helper.
But the same scammers who sold overpriced homes and suicide mortgages will be the first to figure out how to supplement their income with taxpayer food debit cards.
So, the stringency test for food stamp eligibility is about as accurate as those for the sub-prime loans that landed them in poverty?
Good question. I was wondering the same thing but didn't find the info in the links provided above. How many "beneficiaries" of the food stamp programs are there?
I saw a headline the other day that said 35 million.
There is no stigma when you are hungry, of course. Besides, the food stamp programs have gone upscale with debit card type operations. It's not the same but similar nonetheless. I was behind a couple with a small child in Kroger the other day. Their card was maxed out apparently. They had to walk away with less than half of what they had in their basket. I didn't realize the situation quickly enough to toss in the cash difference. They seemed like a nice enough couple, mid-twenties, ordinary folks. My giving them some help is what I call the proper way to help those who may not be able to help themselves.
I would hope, however, that they were not people like these in the WSJ article here:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126040517376983621.html
A quote from those who walked away from their home and are now renting. They skipped payments:
Their definition of savings and mine are quite different!
walt would be proud (bless his frozen head).
They fit the definition of pond scum.
Don't ya find it odd that they have had a brush with financial death and learned nothing?
It's just amazing!
Don't forget about the food banks. And when more people become homeless where are they going cook?
Fortunately there is enough surplus housing.
Awesome title!
Great piece.
Nice work, G dub!
+1!
+1
Great connecting of the dots...
The food stamp program has effectively (so far) kept the horror of the soup line out of the public view. Just think of the emotional impact a soup line would have on the population if there were no food stamps?
Essentially food stamps and unemployment benefit extensions have allowed this administration (and others) to hide the problem and placate what could be an easily riled up constituency.
correct, but how much longer can the people be distracted with shiny things before they realize that the man behind the curtain has stolen everything from them and ran off with Lady Liberty, neither to be seen again?
Yes. Imagine the outrage if the government was not able to appease the people with bread and circuses? The real question is how far can our elected thieves run this scam? How long can the welfare-warfare state run on decreasing tax revenue?
+10 - food stamps are the bread, internet and TV are the circuses... (here we sit, producing not-so-much).
It's much more discrete, convenient, and efficient to run a food-stamp credit card than to stand in in a public food line with coupons, so it could be argued that *some* progress has been made in the last 80 years... Add to that the convenience of extended unemployment benefits... Things don't hurt today as much as they seemed to back in the 30s.
Seems a cheap price to pay to avoid riots, but hopefully not so comfortable as to prevent folks from aspiring to improve their lot in life over the long term.
If this situation weren't based on debt, we could probably sustain it for quite a while. Add cheaper housing and that goes even further.
The unwinding should be interesting as the bucket gets closer to empty, but the people guarding the bucket keep lying about what's really (not?) in it. We can't really know how long we can go on like this, can we?
Let them eat F-22's.