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Are Gold Bugs = Apple Borg Collective?
Several weeks ago, a spoof xtranormal cartoon went viral, in which the purchasing sequence of an iPhone (as compared to an HTC Evo) was hyperbolized, and which ruthlessly mocked the brainwashing practices of the Apple Borg collective. It was only a matter of time, before the brain trust behind the lampoon decided to focus its attention on the next group that has been ridiculed since time immemorial: the long-suffering gold bugs. Sure enough, the sequel is now out, and the process of purchasing an iPhone is now downright boring compared to the purported thought process behind buying gold. Of course, the cartoon is quite hilarious, but for all the wrong reasons, as in trying to mock those who believe that on a short/medium enough timeline, the survival rate for paper drops to zero, the video, which is sure to go just as viral, in fact proves all the concerns not just of the faceless "goldbug" collective, but of all those others who believe gold is headed much, much higher, which also includes the richest and most prominent money managers, financiers, and politicians in the world.
And so, for your viewing pleasure, we present the cartoon and pose the question; is gold nothing more or less than the functional equivalent of the next Steve Jobs inspired fad...(luckily, the hybridization of the two concepts in the form of the iGold seems sufficiently remote to not have to consider the horrific prospects of aurum-aural fusion).
h/t John
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i liked the apple video- it was perfect.
1) Gold is insurance against a falling dollar. You don't buy things with Gold rather you use it to ride out a financial storm then re-enter the Fiat world at greatly improved exchange rates at your leisure. The real joke is on people who hold Dollars because the Fed will do everything in its power to devalue them in order to pay off the enormous Federal Debt (currently about %350 of our GDP if you include unfunded liabilities like Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security which the government doesn't feel it should put on its balance sheet because if it did then it would be really obvious they could never pay its debts back unless they devalue the currency, but I digress).
2) Gold will go up in an inflationary environment for obvious reasons and also in a deflationary environment. Why? Because in a deflationary environment our enormous debt would be even less likely to be payed back so our creditors would fear a default so they would dump dollars which of course is good for gold. It boils down to Inflation = Polite Default(through dollar devaluation) or Deflation = Explicit Default.
3) GLD is not gold but a paper proxy for gold that merely exposes you to the gold price. GLD is for chumps:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/hinde-capital-whether-gld-new-cdo-disguise
(CEF or PHYS are much better investments because they actually hold allocated physical metal which isn't custodian-ed by JPMorganChase and HSBC who have both been implicated in the Gold/Silver price fixing scam - more news to follow this October, did I mention it's not too late to make some money in Gold/Silver).
4) I buy Silver too, it's a great deal, I'm buying %50 Silver %50 Gold.
If historic ratios mean anything I would recommend "all in" silver. Silver, priced in gold, is cheeeeeeeap!
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"Video removed by user."
Here it is from the source on xtranormal:
http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6916109/
IMHO the video is retarted. Much more entertaining ones out there. Here are two from the swine flu craze:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QtM04SMU7w
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mMcefPjUqsw
That about sums it up, and yes, I want gold!
I love gold too and want more. Snarky cartoon or not.
Feeling the need to point out the obvious here...
Apple's products entertain you and ultimatley break or become obsolete, requring you to buy more.
Gold is money with no counterparty risk, and with considerable possible appreciation due to large short positions, currency fears, etc.
So... Why exactly did they make this video? Hmm...
If money is supposed to be a proxy for labor, gold is most certainly not money. Labor decays in value over time, as the product of labor decays, via entropy. The Aristocracy wants you to believe gold is money, so their holdings will be worth "more". But they are only worth "more" because they are pulling the value of a 2010-labor dollar down. Ask yourself this: is an hour of labor that produced nothing of lasting value, from 100 years ago, worth the same as an hour of labor today? Most certainly not. Today's laborer will gain nothing from the work put into a failed institution. Trading a 100 year old dollar for a new one is a net loss for the new guy. This only gets worse when you consider the gold standard, where the only "value" produced in amassing gold was through theft of foreign treasuries.
Your thinking is backwards. Labor which goes into use allows more labor to go on (by allowing someone to say, produce a machine, rathe than hunting and gathering, or even farming their food, or weave their own clothing, or build their own home), building upon itself. The labor that is put into society is capital. Gold represents capital, and is its mirror image. Becasue the amount of gold does not change, but the EFFECT of labor in the past is always growing, holding onto gold gives you increasing purchasing power with time. Because you used your labor to buy it, its purchasing power directly reflects the growth of the capital you have placed into society. Certainly, some goods decay, but that is also reflaected in gold's purchasing power. If those goods had not decayed, the supply would be higher, and as such your purchasing power would as well. The increasing purchasing power of gold reflects the continual growth of society's capital which comes from UNDERCONSUMPTION.
This is what makes gold honest money. Many people in the debtor class (both rich and poor), and those who exploited them, didn't like this, so they pushed for ever more inflation. The exploiters created a fiat system where they could spend nearly endlessly, simply by printing more money. Paper money is a reflection of labor through time, but continually tarnished by inflation. As such, it might fit a system where all capital is allowed to decay, and indeed, it has created such a system, by encouraging the growth of government, which destroys capital.
Understand that paper is the money of debtors, who are slaves, and their masters. Gold is the money of savers, or free men.
My bad, but you are such a deep thinker, that I couldn't follow any of the logic.
You are not alone my friend.
Hate to break it to you but the value of labor today is severely restricted compared to 100 years ago. When my parents remodeled their 1940's built house a decade ago, the contractor constantly bitched about how hard it was to take things apart in order to do the upgrade. I'm positive nobody will ever say that about the houses built in the past 10 years.
I do not care. I am also hoarding 15 pairs of gold earrings, but only have each ear pierced twice. I don't care. I want gold! Earrings, coins, etc...women have always been notorious for collecting shiny things. : ) PS. I would never tell a true friend to buy GLD. Friends don't let friends buy GLD or drive drunk.
Gilded Dan?
Love your gold..don't love your gold.
Strange comparison. Marvelous utterly new hardware-software communications/computing devices gaining market share like crazy are not a fad a la Hula hoops.
Gold has only been popular, unchanging, for thousands of years. Unlike Apple products, it has few uses relative to the quantity held. Some fad!
I want silver
I can't tell which side it's making fun of. Both.
Yes.
Keep buyin those 30 year bonds...
JGBs??
He's doing what Gross is, and that's frontrunning the portion of the duration curve the Fed hasn't already flattened to 0%.
The Fed's activities are systematically pushing everyone further out the duration curve as they seek capital gains from OMOs and QE. Essentially, with the Fed in the bond space, MBS and USTs of longer duration are seen as risk-free gains.
Only when/if people flood out of bonds into *all* commodities (not just gold) and other real things, we will see a bond crash. As of now, GSE and bond funds have been the surest bet for any investor/speculator over the past few years.
Take out another HELOC and pretend to be "sophisticated" investor. I mean, if your conviction is so strong. Let me guess; you are either buying coins or PHYS [which is equal to GLD, but Sprott is a good marketeer and hides that fact pretty well. Read the PHYS prospectus].
Keep investing in something that is:
a) more volatile than 99% of other assets
b) awfully illiquid [pure gold-goods exchange, not the trilateral gold-cash-goods exchange [you are still dependent on FIAT there and not only that but gold = stocks in that context. If you dont see how or why, try reading a book or two, or maybe catch up on your elementary mathematics and please, include some logic as well]]
c) will mostly be liquidated when the FED announces further [2y,10y] buybacks [if not sooner] and any gains on gold will be levered up 5X and get a 10%-22% annual risk free return playing the spreads
d) an asset which will get mauled by deflation which is but a certainty because the volume of currency in circulation does not matter; it is all about VoM this time.
But please, do continue to delude both yourself and the idiots here that Mad Max collapse is inevitable and that gold is the only way, and that is only being manipulated when its down, but when it surges its "going to its right price, but is still undervalued because the ZOMG OMFG guys FOFOA says its worth 55K [but dont take into account the existance of ETFs and synthetics; that shit just doesn't matter amirite]". It makes you a moron. The same kind of moron who buys a naked CDS on some Sovereign thinking it can only profit if said sovereign goes BK and is long-only that trade.
In short; I have had it with this echo chamber that you guys call "comments on ZH", and dont worry, you will not see me here anymore [not that I was present here in the past month and a half when gold-tards went full retard]; I still somewhat need my sanity and my nerves.
You be well Spitzer, and keep fucking that chicken.
I was about to say, "How is it that there is such a high reverence for Cheeky when he rarely graces with his presence and when he does it's either pretentious and useless to the layman or he's an outright asshole."
Keep deluding yourself that you can keep any investment safe in this collapse. Marc Faber is much more helpful. Au revoir.
BURIED GOLD BITCHES!!
Cheeky just flipps out like a bitch. Those low yields must be driving him nuts. haha
can't figure it out either...I mean, I share his frustration with the madmax gold bugs thinking they will be kings in the zombie apocalypse, but jfc, no need to bitch out over it.
What I CANNOT fathom is paperbuginess...or those who would use a CONFIDENCE SCHEME (FRN) as a savings vehicle. The SOLE point of advantage of the FRN is that on this present day, you can buy shit at walmart with it. That's the ONLY thing a FRNbug can say in its defense.
Yet, across the world, across history, we probably ALL have spare change from travels in our dressers that are NO LONGER legal tender in the nations they were issued by or else are now WORTHLESS due to devaluation or repudiation! Even the goddamned FRN was de jure revalued once in the last Depression.
That's it...the FRN is accepted today by a confidence agreement. These things change. The government has monopoly power to declare the FRN null and void. I can't imagine trusting my "savings" to this or any other government. We've had a good run, but even the pound sterling is a fraction of a pound now.
The FRN is a more stable equivalent of beanie babies; it has value now because people feel as if it does. True, gold or anything else is the same, but one is ink on paper whose value derives from who printed it and exactly what ink is on it. And it is subject to confiscation, revaluation, repudiation, or any of another host of ills that can be visited by the type of sovereign we seem to ALL agree that we have. Who the fuck cares if it's liquid HERE?!?! Is HERE the only place on the planet?
I mean, didn't the Euro appear to be on course to collapse like a month ago???
Gold bugs may be irrational, but fiatbugs and especially FRNbugs are even MORE so. Their whole decisionmaking tree rests upon induction based upon worthfulness today extrapolated out over "forever" and relying on fucking SOVEREIGNS' fiat power! JFC, the FRN is the essence of tulip bulbs or .com stocks
Funny, I was in London a couple of weeks ago and tried to pay in dollars and found they were quite illiquid. I had to go trade them for local cash in order to buy goods. Also, there has never been an instance in history where gold has gone down in price during deflation. Not one. Someone tried to tell me that it happened in 2008, but we still had positive inflation (lower than the year before--confirming that only low inflation is bad for the gold price).
As for point a, Id rather own a volatile asset that is in a secular bull market than a non-volatile one that just loses value.
But yeah, you are rather abrasive in most of your comments. Despite the occassional good comment, most of the time you seem to be insulting people for little or no reason. The comments section is probably better off on the whole without you. Whether you stay or go is your choice. I certainly am not going to beg you to stick around.
Playing spreads ? You are worse then Denninger.
M3 or money in circulation or money printing by the Fed does not fucking matter. The US can have hyperinflation without any money printing.
When the US economy is not capable of servicing the US govt debt then the debt will sell off and the treasury bubble will burst. And remember that the dollar is backed by the full faith and CREDIT of the US government.(The debt)
If there was no bailout in 08 then the dollar would have been finished by June of 09. If all the big banks are bust, GM is bust, GE is bust, where is all this tax revenue going to come from to service the debt ?
Do you hold onto non performing debt assets or do you get rid of them ?
Will do!
Mad Max collapse? Perhaps not in our lifetimes. All Ponzis end, and end badly.
So, I can pass along my AG/AU coinage to future generations, under the radar (READ: no estate taxes.). Perhaps they won't be worth as much, but they will be worth something, and I will have a more clear conscience having done my part to starve the beast.
Don't let the door hit you on the ass, dumbshit.
You keep hangin onto paper while they tack on zeros and arguing over how many angels dance on the pinheads of the stupid shit you call "financial instruments" which in the real world is of zero fucking utility.
I cannot IMAGINE anyone intelligent thinking that FRNs are a good savings mechanism in the face of every single fucking country in the world undergoing RELENTLESS devaluation over the histories of every currency they've EVER introduced!
Is the fuckin Pound Sterling still a POUND of sterling, jackass? All this dumbshit talk of deflation...as if the FRN is going to survive that. What "asset" will NOT be mauled by deflation?
You deflationist financial wizards don't seem to understand what a credit collapse does to the supply side of the production equation, do you?
Hey Cheeky,
It would be dull if everybody agreed. There can't be a healthy discussion without dissenters.
You struck me many times as being knowledgeable and credible on various ZH threads, and you have respect from this goldbug, even though we disagree on the gold topic. It doesn't mean your views are not welcome or interesting.
Good luck either way, but from time to time the gold-topic might be the hottest current topic; don't exile yourself.
cheeky i miss you a lot.
keep fucking that chicken, i guess that is as good as it gets.
The goldbug video wasn't that funny, since a lot of the goldbug's arguments were valid and easily provable. (Of course, someone could claim I was brainwashed too.)
But thanks for telling me about the iphone video, that was spot-on!
I liked the "if the world's going to end then you won't have to pay me back the loan" ;)
MoFo,w/Obama president, I don't have to pay you back the loan RIGHT NOW! ;)
Except that no banks are lending. Unless you're in a position where you don't need the money, if you're that level of customer, then you can borrow ;)
MoFo,w/Obama president, I don't have to pay you back the loan RIGHT NOW! ;)
lmao :D
What if gold just stays at 1200 forever, like it is doing? There seems to be stasis, like Dow 10.5, Gold 1200, and it seems like it will be forever. Will it be forever?
Long term trend, grasshopper, long term trend.
Take a long hard look at the price trend for Gold since, let's say, 1999 up to the present. Then come back.
(Oh, what the heck, here is an idea: got to www.kitco.com, and select the historical 1995-2010 Gold chart. You'll see what I mean).
The current "stasis", as you call it, is nothing but a chance - maybe the LAST chance - to add more physical bullion to your stash before the final parabolic rise into the stratosphere.
But remember that, in the long term, we are all dead (see the sentence next to the ZH logo). "Meditate upon this truth daily" (Hagakure).
Are they putting something in the water to induce ADHD? WTF?
Yes, fluoride. Check out some of the studies of IQ in China before and after their introduction of fluoride...
It's people like you, with the apparent attention span of a gnat, that are the main cause of America's trouble. You are not only unable to look ahead, you can't even look back beyond last week. Here's a hint: you need to focus on years, not days, to have real perspective.
Fifty years ago, Marshall Macluhan said that people who watch a lot of TV will have difficulty looking ahead. You prove his point.
Obviously, you are replying to zenO, and not our Mr. Richmond.
Gold is stuck forever. Don't tilt the pinball machine.
Yes......gold will stay at $1200.....forever.
I want an iPhone.
h/t John, did you make this video? The earliest video comment was from 42 minutes ago, and this article is from an hour ago.
still really happy with buying physical 10+ years ago (although it wasn't at an all time low).
don't really give a sh*t about what the people who don't own gold think.
I think I'm gonna start reffering to them as Paper Bugs.
They are paper bugs, they don't realize how stupid they are for saying that their is no inflation but then make a point of how cheap it is to borrow money. If money is cheap to borrow then that is inflationary.
Paper bugs - I like it.
I'm a gold bug, and I thought the video was hilarious. Some arguments work (yes a shiny metal). Others not so much. Overall, hilarious.
Been calling them "radical paper bugs" for years....
Dumbest argument ever "You can't spend gold". WTF are these idiots talking about, apparently to them the black market doesn't exist and you cant buy things that aren't legal either, like drugs, just like you cant purchase things with gold cause its not legal tender.
of course you can buy gold with your credit card, (and probably earn points)
And then you could default on said credit card. Which would be about as immoral as everything else going on these days, but it's important to condemn that kind of behavior. Isn't it?
Done that many times. I'll be flying down to Rio on the points.
There isn't any inflation. HAHA. I just went to walmart and EVERYTHING is getting fucked over. Toilet paper has been made on smaller rolls with shorter sheet cuts. Tortillas are 8 to a package instead of 10. It goes on and on. They hide this inflation shit like a cat burying it's crap.
I'm magically able to put 16 gallons of gas inside a 16 gallon tank that already has 3 gallons in it. This shit is going to be RAMPANT, EVERYBODY will be doing it by end of next month. You're about to be overcharged, shorted and fucked in the ass by the beureu of weights and measures.
The government guarantees your cash. But they are liars. So fuck their guarantee. It's not worth the promises they print. They just want people in cash so they can devalue without the savers running from it.
The gov't apparently does nothing BUT lie. The Truth is classified, so divulging it is treason.
Read that last sentence again, everyone.
Or if you can't, just fucking get off your fat American ass and go travel somewhere outside of the comfort zone of American chain restaurantopia. Like another country. Go see how the 3rd world lives. Marvel at how many zeros they have on their notes and remember that those weren't always there.
Americans live in a fishbowl and they think the end of the universe is the tank walls.
Trav- I've been trying to keep your Bitchez spot warm for you. You back at it again?
lol...I was in the 3rd world for the past week, spending local notes with tons of zeros on them and having the locals gaga over a krugerrand.
In fact, every time I go outside of the US fishbowl, I realize that gold is a saner savings vehicle than paper. Paper might work for the elites, but they won't honor my claim tickets in a liquidation.
WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Its been too long since the Fed was created, what is it now, 4 generations?
This video shows how the concept of real tangible value for a money supply has been lost on the overall population, ranging from the very intelligent and educated to everyone else.
People now believe government "credits" are a store of wealth, they are not. Not until the system collapses will the overall population see this.
No one knows when this will happen, maybe this year, maybe 2110, but it will eventually. Thus keeping 5-10% of assests in physical metal outside of the banking system is a prudent thing to do. That is not being a gold bug, that is wealth diversification and preservation. Anyone that does not do this is betting their entire livelyhood on the government.
The system doesn't have to collapse, sheesh.
what is all this fascination with total collapse to madmax? How many devaluations have Argentina or Brazil been through? There are STILL PEOPLE THERE. Lights still come on, water still runs, food still gets grown.
The collapsaholics like Mako are apparently as myopic as the polyannas. Fuckin currencies go tits up all the fking time. And yet the State persists. There are MANY nations out there right now on their 3rd or 4th currency in 20 years!
I have to marvel at the commentary and ask, do you people ever TRAVEL? I mean, gfd, I guess maybe I don't go to the tourist equivalent of Eurodisney when I step outside the country, but I've been now in, what, 3 or 4 places in the past few years that have all experienced severe currency inflations NOT due to credit demand...where said may be the 2nd or 3rd replacement for successors that also collapsed. Where a throwaway note has 1000 on it.
Yet I KNOW people who fucking grew up in these places and they have pictures of themselves smiling on facebook from the days before during and after the currency meltdowns.
GFD life goes on.
And yet the State persists.
Thanks, you just ruined my day.
Yup, most depressing thing I've read on this site!
what is all this fascination with total collapse to madmax? How many devaluations have Argentina or Brazil been through? There are STILL PEOPLE THERE. Lights still come on, water still runs, food still gets grown.
The collapsaholics like Mako are apparently as myopic as the polyannas.
Bless you for your clarity and succinctness. Those few sentences should be required reading, with a test afterwards.
LOL!!
There are STILL PEOPLE THERE.
We already have Mad Max conditions here in the US. That movie was about a marauding gang taking advantage of the unwary in a rural area. Go to any interurban slum and expect the same if you obviously don't belong - we are not anywhere near as safe as people think and failing basic services will make it obvious to the most zombified teevee addicts out there.
A Road Warrior result for our society is much more plausible in the view of history than Argentina 2001 - once the world reserve currency fails how do you think interurban folk will handle rationing of supplies? 40,800,000 on food stamps and everything is going to be working just fine - we'll all just get along? Did Argentina have the same divisiveness between cultures that we have here? The same availability of firearms? Remember what happened when the Lakers won!!
"Road Warrior ain't gonna happen." and "We will see Road Warrior conditions." are two conclusions based a series of possible events that have yet to come to pass. The former is based on the current fantasy that holds things together, the other is based on logic in view of history. Which one does Marc Faber support when he tells you to buy farm land, barbed wire, and dobermans?
We aren't there yet - but I challenge anyone to demonstrate how resources will be distributed and control over society maintained once a major change in our currency quickly shifts prices of goods any more than 20%, let alone currency collapse. People were whining about everything when oil was $150/barrel. Yet the price of gasoline has stayed within ~80% of that high of summer '08!
Here's the test question: "Explain logically and completely how the United States will survive as a nation when the world reserve currency collapses."
If Katrina is any indication of how well the gov't will handle things I suggest you listen to Gerald Celente and Marc Faber. No, it's not the end of the world. Yes, history will repeat itself and there will be mass starvation and war. Yes, there will still be people because they have food and can defend themselves.
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So Trav, how many world currencies have collapsed that we can compare ourselves nicely to? How much will gasoline cost when that happens? Just a simple question.
WTF is the difference between a "world" currency and the USSR Ruble?
JFC, man, open your eyes. Seriously. People will CONTINUE to do their duty; that's what men do. They continue to show up at the power plant or the water plant.
I don't see any credible distinction between the "world" currency of the USD and any other note. The USSR collapsed and life went on. It's not as if people won't figure out how to wake up in the morning in the absence of the almighty dollar.
The problem here is that we are Americans and apparently most of you live in a FISHBOWL. Step outside of the tank. Gasoline costs? What, I won't be able to DRIVE TO THE STRIP MALL???? OMGWTF.
Get a grip, people...life goes on. People seem to find a way to survive elsewhere in the face of unaffordable gasoline. It was 9700 pesos per liter in Colombia. There are still cars on the road, people eating, living life.
This is the problem; we Americans collectively cannot CONCEIVE of how "those people" could POSSIBLY get by without wal mart and ipods and V8 engines in SUVs. OMGWTF, how do they possibly LIVE!??!? Whatever are we to do??!?
You hit the nail on the head, people were WHINING when oil was $150/bbl. And that is because we are a nation of WHINERS. Europeans and S. Americans LAUGH AT US because their lives don't feature the same excessive comforts. We're all like a bunch of spoiled, pampered WOMEN. Whine, complain, and get "offended" at the drop of a gd hat.
Trust me, man, people have been through worse than 150/bbl oil and somehow managed to muddle through. In Argentina, Brazil, etc., oil went to infinity/bbl in the local paper before they issued new notes that started to rack up their own line of 0's.
Yeah, life will change. You may have to actually use those two things attached to the bottom of your fucking legs and actually WALK somewhere. You may have to actually wear the same apparel more than a few times. You may have to actually line dry your clothes. May only get 1500 calories per day instead of 3000 and might start losing weight. HOLY SHIT, that sounds like the fucking APOCALYPSE to me.
Again, you speak of fantasy and examples that do not compare.
Walk from the suburbs to their job?
Where do 40,800,000+ get 1,500 calories/day? (and that's if they are sitting home to conserve energy)
What will crack addicts, prescription pill addicts (and those that actually need it to keep them from clawing their own eyes out) et al use to pay for the next hit they need to "function"?
What happens when the USA goes into withdrawal as a whole?
You have not meaningfully addressed why our society will not go into full upheaval. Your conclusion that we will "just get by" is pure fantasy.
Dude, you ever been to Serbia?
One of my friends went from having a nice life till the day in her words that the US "told muslims it was ok to come and kill us." Then she was living with her family in a CAR in a WAR ZONE.
There are buildings in Beograd with holes from our bombs STILL IN THEM. And know what? LIFE WENT ON. It was hard, shit sucks sometimes, but people still go on living. Their world did not end and there were no remnants of zombies there.
Fuck the USA and its exaggerated sense of self-entitlement and worth. This reminds me of when Hillary Clitton and the "boomers" hit 50 as if it was the FIRST TIME anyone or any generation had hit 50. It was nothing but a bunch of pansy naval gazers marveling at their own reflections.
There will be upheaval, sure. There will be hardship, sure. But the world WILL NOT end.
How will people get from suburbia to jobs? THEY WON'T. That's the punchline! And they'll figure out how to get by the same as Bosnian serbs did who lived in cars for a time.
Things are nowhere NEAR as dire as you collapsaholics make them out to be. You're all a bunch of misanthropes; that is the real truth here.
There is 85mbpd of oil produced now, MORE than enough for us to get the fuck by as all of India does. OMG, we will have to walk more, eat less, CONSUME less, run the AC less, run the TV less. Holy shit, what a CATASTROPHE.
I can tell by this commentary that you've never been to the third world; most people haven't. Therefore, actually living outside the fishbowl seems inconceivable. Go get drunk with some serbs in the midday who earn 300 euros a month and tell them just how unimaginable it all is to survive. Talk to a brazilian or any other South American, a local.
They're going to laugh at you. Most of the world laughs at the things we Americans view as tribulations, and quite rightfully so. If the USA collapses and zombies break out, I'll just fucking leave and go somewhere not populated by legions of spoiled women...pretty much anywhere else will do.
Trav, while I usually agree with a good bit of your sentiment, read some Dmitry Orlov and get back to us. Comparing the USSA and the USSR shows that the differences far outweigh the similarities.
Our big cities consist of AI addicted, iPhoney hypnotized, paper pushers, buying and selling votes. If at any point, the delicate food conveyor ceases to exist...look out.
That said, I would suggest researching the Stuxnet virus, the code behind it, exactly what it targets, and who uses those targets. Large "food" manufacturers squeezing out processed cheese foods for food stamps recipients, electric plants (including nuke reactors), oil fields, dams, city water, waste-water treatment...the list goes on.
Going to be tough to go to work at those plants if this puppy, and/or it's inevitable variants are turned loose. If you think these guys have taken appropriate measures to secure their shit...think again. Think long, and hard.
oh, SOMEHOW, I think people will find the intenstinal fortitude to CARRY ON in the face of the CATASTROPHE of having less processed cheese on a daily basis.
Maybe blacks won't, but who gives a shit about them?
You guys seem to routinely IGNORE any evidence suggesting a zombie apocalypse will NOT occur.
I mean, GFD man, the POWER went out on the ENTIRE N. EASTERN SEABOARD for days a few years ago...what happened? Zombies?
BTW, I read up on Stuxnet and lemme guess...yet ANOTHER buffer overrun vector in MS. WTF is the matter with these guys? How many gd'd times does the same attack vector have to hit MS before they ditch their shitty C++ programming techniques and/or comprehensively review all their code to identify unchecked buffer writes!??! I wrote code for 20 years, even in x68 assembly and NEVER ONCE wrote to a buffer without a basic length check of the input, yet it appears that every single MS codebase, from IE to the freaking thing that reads in the .lnk files to make pretty shortcuts just fucking assumes that the bytestream will conform to expectations. Cannot fathom this...
We already have Mad Max conditions here in the US. That movie was about a marauding gang taking advantage of the unwary in a rural area. Go to any interurban slum and expect the same if you obviously don't belong - we are not anywhere near as safe as people think and failing basic services will make it obvious to the most zombified teevee addicts out there.
Read about Argentina. As in Argentina, the cities here will be the primary recipients of "stabilization," meaning armed occupation and distribution of necessities. There will be no mad max in the cities. There could be rioting, and then the cities will be pacified. City dwellers, and especially the dependency classes, are not as fearsome as you think. The problem will be gangs, not mass hysteria. Gangs will be a growing problem, mad max or no. Individual security should be a prime concern anyway, but the need to pay attention to it will increase greatly. City dwellers will face the dual threat of gangs and loss of civil rights to the occupying forces.
The ex-middle / working class is well armed and much better suited in temperament for what's coming. The enclaves of suburban McMansions will be looted unless they commit what's left of their wealth to private armed guards. I think it will take them much too long to realize what's happening. I have very little respect for these people, most seem totally oblivious to the collapse of the underlying conditions that led to their new-found class status.
You heard it kids, from a skeptic of Road Warrior conditions. I recommend concealed weapons, training, and "shoot first" community watches - everything will be based on who you know and whether or not you can trust them with your life for a few years after collapse.
I have read about Argentina and watched the documentaries on YouTube. SWR, your take is what I consider a best-case scenario - no major terrorist attacks, no invasions, etc - slow collapse. Your thoughts are always appreciated, whether I agree or not. US citizens have one hell of a hole to get out of.
When anyone says "Road Warrior" I envision complete, total breakdown, nothing being produced, no commerce, no trade. Not going to happen. There is no constituency for it, and there is actually a significant constituency for martial law. Which is also a problem....cities, say hello to Blackwater.
must ask: have you been to Argentina to assess this threat firsthand?
Gangs, violence, kidnappings, and robberies occur at much higher rates in S. America than here. But, I was just in Colombia the other day, and LOOK! I am still upright and walking and talking. Likewise the last time I was in Brazil, wow, I even walked alone at night on the str33tz. Holy crap am I like Charles Bronson?
In reality, things are not as bad as they are made out to be. We have an abundance of criminal 3rd world element here, they happen to share identifiable characteristics and so this type of crime should be easier to see coming here than down there.
The reality is that we right now have places in America as much violent as Brazil or Argentina or Colombia and inhabited by people sharing similar characteristics as those down there.
But to assert that society is going to collapse to roving street gangs and Clockwork Orange; c'mow now, put the bong down. You build walls, put on concertina, and you carry on. In brazil, it even gets you not having to stop at streetlights after dark, so there are some plusses. But the reality is that most crime is concentrated in the ghettos, slums, favelas, just like here.
If/when the time comes, the criminals won't be hard to spot, trust me on that. Despite a lifetime worth of programming, you will very quickly learn to assess threats which do not occur by ambush, or else you'll just be a dipshit who gets crept on.
"I ate a fish taco in New Orleans and I'm still alive! No problem!"
I get what you're saying about people adapting and getting on - we both seem to agree (along with SWR) that urban areas will not be pleasant - which is why I don't advocate staying there if you want to live in relative comfort - which can be done in smaller, vigilant towns with there own source of edibles. In a small town everyone would ideally be each other's bodyguard - they'll have to make due without a lot of supplies but they will be much more open and free if those in charge support freedom the way the Founding Fathers wanted it.
Thanks for the response.
You're a f'ing nit.
Where in my post did I say madmax style breakdown of civizilation?
I said collapse of the monetary system.
That is exactly what has happened in Argentina, Brazil, etc. as you pointed out, so thanks for demonstrating my point that a collapse is possible.
Stop putting words in people's mouths and being a fucking tool.
Oh, and to your travel comments.
Congrats on patting yourself on the back that you've traveled to like 3 countries. You're so worldly.
I currently live in Asia, working and saving. Have visited both for work and pleasure 35 countries and 5 continents over the past 3 years. Yes I know just what all these places are like and the pros and cons vs. the states....
Without stirring abroad
One can know the whole world;
Without looking out the window
One can see the way of heaven.
The further one goes
The less one knows.
Therefore the sage knows without having to stir,
Identifies without having to see,
Accomplishes without having to act.
Tao Te Ching
Funny story. I had a krugerrand in Colombia.
The wand metal detector in the airport sensed it in my pocket. Everyone was like wow what is this, where is it from, and wanted to hold it. And wanted to have it too. They implicitly knew what it was and that it was very highly worthful. My companion there held it but couldn't tell you the USD POG, still wanted it.
So go figure, seems like people like the shit outside of the US. And, the Colombian paper notes have an ASSLOAD of zeroes on them.
I mean, wtf says scoreboard louder than pulling out 200,000 pesos from a Citi ATM? Or a hotel bill of 300,000 pesos...or a flight adjustment that was 700,000 pesos? Or blowing 400,000 pesos on clothing?
Paper notes are the joke...there is so much fraud and bullshit sitting on that "government monopoly." This video was funny up above, simply because I have a sense of humor.
But to assert that a gov't won't fuck its "monopoly" defies the ENTIRETY of recorded history. The gov't will STILL be around, STILL be able to issue notes; the monopoly doesn't go away when they shit all over their population with debasement. They know that and that's why they do it.
I bet those who stockpiled Colombian peso notes, Cruzeiro Reals, or USSR Rubles wish they had chosen another wealth storage agent. Likewise, I bet a lot of Argentines wish they hadn't stored their wealth in the form of negative interest rate loans to insolvent institutions (bank accounts).
Wanna find me a better mechanism of savings, I'M ALL EARS. That said, I think that the paperbugs must not travel much. I have so many paper notes laying around from travels with a shit ton of zeroes on them.
Amen brother! Best description that I have encountered for the US Peso is `unpayable debt obligation'.
+100
I (an American) was in (the former) Yugoslavia in ‘91 and ‘92. I entered an abandoned house which had been stripped of everything of value. All over the floor there were Yugoslav Dinar notes, some in denominations of 10,000. I scoped some up and showed them to the locals who promptly burst out laughing.
Here's another one that's made a big hit in the auto world:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8&
Sorry to be so far OT, but if you track your car, you know a guy like this.
it's gone. video removed by user.
More evidence of manipulation!!!
JK
here is the site where to get the software: http://www.xtranormal.com/
this would probably make for a good exchange:
http://www.zerohedge.com/article/grand-debt-illusion-faqs-about-national...
duplicate
oh the fed-cia is up to its usual tricks....it looks like the frn bugs are looking for a last hoorah
bastads, that sounded good. does anyone have a vague transcript from memory?
You gotta love how gold owners are still called "long suffering" even after we've been kicking sand at the stock and bond investors for TEN YEARS.
True, if you bought gold in 1980, and sat on it for twenty years, you would have been "long-suffering" by 2000. Which is how stock investors are going to feel in about ten years (if not earlier), when their ten-year bear market becomes a twenty-year bear.
Actually, the prominent gold investors of the 1970s -- Sinclair, Casey, Ruff, Soros -- all got out in the early 1980s, and jumped into stocks, bonds, real estate and the like. They weren't gold investors anymore. Only Sinclair sold at the $800 tippy top, it's true, but if you bought around $35 in 1970, you could have sold at $500 or $400 some time around 1980-1983, and bought stocks or bonds or even cash (then yielding around 10%) and that would have been just fine.
So really there are two kinds of people:
1) People who own gold when it is advantageous to own gold; and stocks and bonds when it is advantageous to own stocks and bonds; or
2) People who own stocks and bonds all the time, and don't mind getting kicked in the guts for ten or twenty years, as long as everyone else gets kicked in the guts too.
Now, THAT was a smart comment, if I ever saw one!
I am buying more and more Gold and Silver all the time, and I have to tell you, my dear "zero intelligence", that you summed up my thinking exactly! There will be a time to sell the Gold and the Silver, but now is not that time. There will be a time to go back to the stock market, but now is not that time either.
Your moniker does not do justice to your intellect, my dear sir. I tip my hat to you!
+100
Radical S&P bugs need only look at a long term chart of the Nikkei, then think "demographics".
Ja, hey!
Since the posted video got disappeared, here's a video of a Leprechaun trying to get his pot of gold from Annoying Orange:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1JO0-WCEOw4
All a goldbug has to do is point to the scoreboard: asset class of the decade, a 5-bagger since 2000.
Did anyone backup this video? I feel cheated not being able to see it.
You know, having been both, I would have to say that hte answer is YES. I switched to apple about 4 years after I switched to gold, and loved it. Everything worked, I only very rarely had crashes, and they never took down the whole computer, just the program I was working on, everything just worked 99.9% of the time. But recently, I have noticed more and more bugs working their way into the system. I'm having to deal with them on a daily basis. Now, I have to say that it isn't much better than a PC. If the trend continues, my next computer may just be a PC.
I like Apple brand electronics, but I recognize that they have been locked down in such a manner as to maximize profits for Apple, at the expence of the user's experience. This is why I rarely buy Apple electronics. I recognize that they are high quality, but I demand freedom, including the freedom to choose where I get my apps from.
So you see, when the situation is very favorable toward the things I love, I like them, and sing their praises. When the situation changes, I can recognize it. I think most gold bugs are probably the same. Should the fundamentals of gold change, we will recognize that, and move on, or at least, stop accumulating (much like I still have all my Macs, but I don't plan to sell them or throw them away, it's just that if they don't clean their act up by the time I need to buy a new one, I may get a PC).
Indeed, extending that metaphore, gold stocks and other products are similar to Apple's electronics--they don't offer the same freedom offered by gold, and have a number of vulnerabilities (Apple decides to be a dick about something, or the government decides you don't get to own XYZ gold miners). As such, I have tended to stay away, though I have been tempted to buy in the past, and I do and have owned some of both. Sold the gold stocks, though. I couldn't hack them to do what I wanted, like I could with the AppleTV (which is a fine peice of hardware, if Apple would just have made it right--I don't want to have to reupload my whole library of videos every time I upload one, and they seem to be quite transient, instead of just being a damn hard drive and keeping shit on it until I say otherwise).
JB and Mako are right. You are wrong.
Didn't you know that when EVERYBODY thinks something that they are always right?
That's why goldbugs are a step ahead of the rest, because everybody agrees with them.
I don't get my investment advice from Glenn Beck, so I'm not as good as them.
Hey Johnny tell us again about your theory that there was effectively no Industrial Revolution in America during the 19th century because that century saw a long deflationary trend and no growth is possible without inflation.
Tell us again how the steamboat, the locomotive, the telegraph, the telephone, the phonograph and moving pictures were not products of 19th century growth as all the elementary school textbooks declare, but rather were invented after the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913 through the virtue of their endlessly running printing press.
God you're a liar.
I just posted a chart the other day (that I know you saw) that showed that deflation was not the trend in this time period.
And now here you are saying there was deflation throughout the entire period, when you know and I know it isn't true.
What's the point in arguing with somebody if they aren't even honest?
He's not a liar, you didn't read your chart properly. The trend in the 1800's was in fact, deflation, proving your entire world-view as being WRONG. A much better chart, which shows the CUMULATIVE change, rather than the yearly change is available here: http://mises.org/images/SeanMaloneRiseFallDollarLarge.jpg
Thanks tm, also see:
The Imaginary Evils of Deflation
Growth deflation should be the prevailing trend in a healthy progressing economy. It is only because of years of rampant money supply growth, endemic under a fiat currency system, that inflation has become the accepted norm. As Salerno notes, “throughout the nineteenth century and up until the First World War, a mild deflationary trend prevailed in the industrialized nations as rapid growth in the supplies of goods outpaced the gradual growth in money supply that occurred under the classical gold standard.”
http://mises.org/daily/1040
In post #518804 Bravo said:
Without inflation, there would be no growth. Without growth, there wouldn't be a growing economy. It's simple really.
Inflation = growth. Deflation = recession.
In post #518860 Bravo said:
Inflation IS growth. Without inflation, prices would never increase, and neither would profits.
In post #518870 Crockett said:
There was price deflation in the United States throughout the nineteenth century. So you believe that the American economy was smaller in 1900 than it was in 1801?
In post #518887 Bravo said:
Looks about even to me in terms of inflation versus deflation:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/20/US_Historical_I...
.
In post #518959 Crockett said:Yes, it looks "about even" but there was a slight deflationary trend. But let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's "about even" -- that there was no net inflation or deflation. Where does that leave you?
You said: Inflation IS growth. Without inflation, prices would never increase, and neither would profits
and
Without inflation, there would be no growth. Without growth, there wouldn't be a growing economy. It's simple really.
So are you still insisting that there was no progress in the United States during the entire course of the Industrial Revolution? If there was no growth or profit, what specifically do you think made it so industrial and so revolutionary?
In post #518965 Bravo said:Also, the industrial revolution didn't really take off until the end of the 19th century. You see a huge amount of inflation in the early part of the 20th century.
Your diligence is amazing. I would question your focus on debunking a fool, however.
Just kidding. Pointing out Johnny's craziness and incoherence is great fun.
Congratulations on a nice compilation of JB/MB's conflicted "opinions".
wow...Bravo actually SAID all that stupid shit?
Is he aware there was growth in the world without a creditmoney system and without monetary inflation?
Was the Big Bang when the Fed was created? The start of time and the universe and all that shit? Profits only grow via inflation? That's news to me. Cuz the fkin Dutch East India Company seems to have proven otherwise in a nation without the BOE, Sterling Bill, and a creditmoney system of inflation.
I mean, it's not as if Real Bills was the world system for hundreds of years or anything.
Inflation doesn't cause growth, it follows it. The problem that nitwits don't get is that contraction causes the collapse of creditmoney systems via deflation. OTHER money systems, including Real Bills, do not have that flaw.
What credit money systems DO is provide 1st-tier seigniorage profits for BANKERS. Deflation causes those to go away.
Gold is pretty. Silver makes a nice sound when you clink two bars together. I'm keeping it.
Funny thing about coins. They seem more like money than paper. Several years ago I was running a treeplanting contract near the BC-Alaska border. As usual I went to town and bought a lot of Molsons and LaBatts beer to entice people to stay in camp for the day off. The local logging camp was dry and they heard about my bootlegging. That night a couple loggers showed up in the dining tent with a pile of loonies for my contraband beer. That pile of loonies made me feel rich, irrational or not. A thousand silver maple leafs or philharmonics is even better.
I'm saving all my gold to buy a truckload of Ipads when the time is right. I'm waiting for that magic overbought gold, oversold Ipad moment then bang! Convergence trade of a lifetime!
Gold is good, but I believe silver to be just as good, if not better. Small rounds, bars and U.S. silver dimes/quarters/halves/dollars will make excellent trade units when the dollar finally takes a dump. Silver is also under priced relative to gold, and when it returns top it's natural equilibrium of around 16 - 19 ounces to an ounce of gold, my stack will have appreciated quite nicely. Anyone who has read about hyperinflationary events in other countries knows that gold, silver, guns and grub are the four must-have items.
The damage has been done and it cannot be reversed using the present courses of action chosen by those who purport to know what needs to be done.
The regular people lout there will not know what hit them when TSHTF, and many will end up in the mobs of people rioting and marching against SSI cuts, pension failures/cuts, welfare benefits cuts, unemployment benefits cuts.
I however, will be sitting in my home quietly consuming the food I had the foresight to store up, and guarding my home with the weapons I have purchased.
No one wants to see riots and no one wants to see massive civil unrest and starvation, but if we continue down this path, they will all come to pass.
Even I wouldn't say that the goldbugs are as retarded as Apple fanboys.
Goldbugs are much smarter than the Apple fanboys, even if they are caught up in a similar fad.
I think that Apple fanboys are the epitome of ignorance about technology. If it "just worked" then why did my buddy have to send his Macbook Pro to the shop 4 times in 2 years?
He has already gotten rid of the Macbook he bought at the same time I bought the PC I'm typing on now. The only repair I've ever made on my PC is getting a new AC adapter because my cat chewed the cord or something.
His Macbook was constantly broken, and he'd be without it for a month at a time while the "genius bar" fixed it.
When/If my PC breaks, I just buy the part and its fixed in a couple of days.
With Apple, you have to send it to somebody, and if you're lucky it will be a reasonable price.
Even I wouldn't say that the goldbugs are as retarded as Apple fanboys.
But you can eat an apple.
"Even I wouldn't say that the goldbugs are as retarded as Apple fanboys."
So Johnny, back to that avatar of yours......
Actually, the FRN-borg video (or the "paper-money borg" in general) would be a lot more funny and relevant.
Video pulled.
The way I see it, the crystal ball is cloudy. A thinking person must admit that there are too many permutations possible. What I think I know:
On a GAAP basis, the US budget is running maybe a $5 + trillion deficit. The obligations can never be paid with worthwhile $s.
I would be very surprised is the the US actually has some 8300 tons of physical gold (ious perhaps, physical no).
The gold and silver markets are heavily sold short by entities that lack the physical backing.
I don't see the US$ or the Euro as being a good store of value for central banks, yet those are their primary reserves currently.
By executive order of April 5, 1933, Roosevelt ordered the turn-in of most physical gold (subject to the $100 exemption and numismatic exemption and normal quantities exemption for jewelers, etc); he did not do a taking of gold producers (ex. Homestake). But gold has no convertibility currently so make of that what you will. I view a repeat as unlikely/not impossible. It would be much easier to do a Friday night "taking" of GLD of whatever physical is in it, at the Friday closing price, not an attempted taking from the armed populace. I don't see PHYS, CEF etc as immune because hasn't the Canadian government, in its wisdom, sold its physical gold? Mighn't they need some gold if we end up with some international partially gold backed currency?
Just some weekend thoughts.
Every newspaper I buy has ads in it to buy gold. Jewelry stores have signs in the window that they buy gold. Some put people in cute costumes with signs out by the road begging you to come in and sell them your gold. We have ads on TV during the peak hours of viewing offering to buy my gold.
There is a visible systematic widespread program to remove gold from the hands of the public and I'm supposed to believe it has no intrinsic value?
thats because the smart money is trying to relieve the dumb money public of theirs because they know which way it's going now.
all the time johnny and jane public think its a good deal to cash in their jewellery for a couple hundred bits of paper to pay this months utility bills you know accumulating gold is the way forwards.
when johnny and jane dont want to sell any more, or god forbid are out there buying it, that's when the top is near. Dow / Gold at < 1.5 to 1, and a decent house at 70-100 oz is where were going, and where i'll be jumping.
JB, couldnt agree more about the Apple / PC thing, but there really is no comparison between Apple / Gold.
when Apple has been the one and only true defender of wealth through empire rise & decline for 5000+ years you might have a point, until then comments like that show your views to be that of the child you are.
"There is a visible systematic widespread program to remove gold from the hands of the public"
it is the same in the UK.
1099s Beeeeacthes. It's not owning gold that is an issue. It's the selling of gold that will be the issue.
The mere fact that you hold gold because the government is fucked up is exactly the reason one should understand HOW to hold gold. Are you going to tell me with a straight face that they won't think about regulating or criminalizing the sale of gold?
Are you going to tell me with a straight face that they won't think about regulating or criminalizing the sale of recreational drugs?
I wonder how that will work out?
Updated DOW and SP500 charts:
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
I love it. All the goldbugs come in and post the same shit over and over on every gold post. You know if you believe so strongly in gold (nothing wrong with that I like gold too) than why do you constantly feel the need to argue and make the same fucking points over and over again? If you truly believed in gold and had no reservations than you'd just ignore the comments all together.
Because there's a man and woman in heaven who sit naked on a throne and have sex with lines of people. I forget their name but I'm sure there's other pairs of them. But anyway these pairs and pairs like them are energy aggregators. They take peoples energy and use it in bizarre ways and they give out these group collective conciousness. So they are what really creates the parroting people and the people who are stubbornly convinced they are right but when you try to reason it out with them it's failure. Because it's not self discovered knowledge. It's group might is right knowledge.
You see one of the main goals of coming to understand everything is clarify the physical world in comparison to the spiritual world or the underworld. So all the "invention" of TV with 3 channels was easy to peg as being responsible for where these thought processes and parroting and fanboyism come from. Because if you play with a fanboy you'll usually see them throw out ideas that can be traced back to marketing information or arguements. But every once in a while they'll all seem to use a tactic or a piece of knowledge that you can't figure out where it comes from. It comes from these energy aggregator sources and they are the whole key to how to fuck the world up like it is. The energy aggregators want this process to become used all the time because it's very controlling and very easy to abuse. Which is why they DO NOT WANT alternate media and why they insist on keeping 120 channel TV filled with sports channels and infomercials. Because without the media controll the energy aggregators will be too easy to get their abusive practices pinned on them.
You have the same types of energy aggregators with the fed and gold but the fed calls it "fungible". They work slightly differently in the main stream media and hollywood. Go and watch a movie that is small and not known by many people and become really passive and receptive to the experience. It will be much different than if you go and watch a movie that is "popular" like avatar. The energy aggregators can get some hugely distorted and just plain fucked up thought processes and feeling functions going with these things. That's why Disney movies became so formulaic and intense and why they are falling on thier ass bone so hard right now. Because they were the worst abusers of the aggregator process.
I think the reason people love to fuck with the anti-gold bugs is because of the aggregator process functioning. The anti-gold trolls come here fucked and satisified with their "righteousness" and it's fun to unfuck them back into their raw state of dissatisfaction.
Because it's not just gold anti-gold trolling. It's a full on fun game of cock blocking and pussy damning.
I like that! The aggregator process... This is new to me. You make a very good point.
Looks like video still available here
http://sovereignspeculator.com/
Resources like the one you mentioned here will be very useful for me! I like to share it with all my friends and hope they will definitely like it.
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