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Arguments Regarding the Collapse of the World Trade Center Evaporate Upon Inspection
Preface: Bill Black writes today that Wall Street apologists say that calling for prosecution of Wall Street fraud is like saying the Twin Towers were brought down by controlled demolition.
Now that Bin Laden has been confirmed to be dead, it has been established that Saddam Hussein was not behind 9/11 (one of the main reasons for the Iraq war), and Iran
has been accused of having a hand in 9/11 - potentially forming the
basis for a war against Iran - it is time to revisit some important,
unanswered questions.
This essay does not argue that bombs brought down the Twin Towers or World Trade Building 7, even though many top structural engineers believe that is what happened, and people could easily have planted bombs in the trade centers without anyone noticing and without the conspiracy being discovered.
It simply addresses the frequent argument that fires caused the metal
to sag, which brought down the 3 buildings, and that the case is closed.
The Fires at the World Trade Centers Were NOT Very Hot
The
government agency in charge of the investigation of why three buildings
collapsed on 9/11 - the National Institute of Standards and Technology
(NIST) - says that paint tests indicated low steel temperatures -- 480 Fahrenheit -- "despite pre-collapse exposure to fire". NIST also said that microstructure tests showed no steel reached critical (half-strength) values of 600 Celsius (1112 degrees Fahrenheit) for any significant time.
Numerous top fire protection engineers have said that the fires in the World Trade Centers were not that hot. For example:
- A
mechanical engineer with 20 years experience as a Fire Protection
Engineer for the U.S. Departments of Energy, Defense, and Veterans
Affairs, who is a contributing Subject Matter Expert to the U.S.
Department of Energy Fire Protection Engineering Functional Area
Qualification Standard for Nuclear Facilities, a board member of the
Northern California - Nevada Chapter of the Society of Fire Protection
Engineers, currently serving as Fire Protection Engineer for the city of
San Jose, California, the 10th largest city in the United States
(Edward S. Munyak) says that the fires weren't big enough to bring down
Building 7:
- The
former head of NIST's Fire Science Division, who is
one of the world’s leading fire science researchers and
safety engineers, a Ph.D. in mechanical engineering
(Dr. James Quintiere), called
for an independent review of the World Trade Center
collapse investigation. "I would really like
to see someone else take a look at what they've done; both
structurally and from a fire point of view. ... I
think the official conclusion that NIST arrived at
[that fire and damage from the attacks brought down the buildings] is
questionable.
In addition, Thomas Eager, a
Professor of Materials Engineering and Engineering Systems at MIT and a
defender of the official story, concluded
that the temperatures in the Twin Towers never exceeded 800 Celsius
(1472 degrees Fahrenheit). Eager pointed out that, contrary to popular
belief, jet fuel from the planes did not increase the temperature of the fires.
Structural engineer Antonio Artha notes:
Fire and impact were insignificant in all three buildings.
Structural engineer Graham John Inman points out:
The fire on this building [World Trade Building 7] was small & localized therefore what is the cause?
Thermal
images also suggest that the temperature of the steel in the north
tower at the time of the fire was not much more than 250 degrees Fahrenheit (and see this).
The Argument Evaporates Upon Inspection
Defenders
of the "official" version of 9/11 say, in rebuttal, that the fires
didn't have to be that hot, because - while not hot enough to melt steel - they were hot enough to cause the metal to sag.
It
is irrelevant (and beyond the scope of this post) whether or not their
argument is correct. Specifically, since even defenders of official
story admit that the fires were not hot enough to melt steel, then it is
impossible to explain the huge quantify of molten steel which was
observed under Ground Zero for months after the attacks (see next
section, below).
Indeed, not only was structural steel somehow melted on 9/11, but it was EVAPORATED. Specifically, as the New York Times reports, an expert stated about World Trade Center building 7:
A
combination of an uncontrolled fire and the structural damage might
have been able to bring the building down, some engineers said. But
that would not explain steel members in the debris pile that appear to
have been PARTLY EVAPORATED in extraordinarily high temperatures.
(pay-per-view).
Note that evaporation means conversion from a liquid to a gas; so the steel beams in building 7 were subjected to temperatures high enough to melt and evaporate them.
It is simply impossible that fires from jet fuels and office materials could do that.
Molten Metal Under Ground Zero for MONTHS After Attacks
There was molten metal under ground zero for months after 9/11:
- The structural engineer responsible for the design of the WTC, described fires still burning and molten steel still running 21 days after the attacks (page 3)
- A structural engineer who worked for the Trade Center's original designer saw "streams of molten metal that leaked from the hot cores and flowed down broken walls inside the foundation hole." (pages 31-32)
- An engineer stated in the September 3, 2002 issue of The Structural Engineer, "They showed us many fascinating slides ranging from molten metal, which was still red hot weeks after the event."
- New York firefighters recalled in a documentary film, "heat so intense they encountered rivers of molten steel."
- A NY firefighter described molten steel flowing at ground zero, and said it was like a "foundry" or like "lava".
- A public health advisor who arrived at Ground Zero on September 12, said that "feeling the heat" and "seeing the molten steel" there reminded him of a volcano.
- An employee of New Jersey's Task Force One Urban Search and Rescue witnessed "Fires burn[ing and molten steel flow[ing] in the pile of ruins still settling beneath her feet."
- The head of a team of scientists studying the potential health effects of 9/11, reported, "Fires are still actively burning and the smoke is very intense. In some pockets now being uncovered, they are finding molten steel."
- According to a worker involved with the organizing of demolition, excavation and debris removal operations at ground zero, "Underground it was still so hot that molten metal dripped down the sides of the wall from Building 6."
- A reporter with rare access to the debris at ground zero "descended deep below street level to areas where underground fires still burned and steel flowed in molten streams."
- According to a member of New York Air National Guard's 109th Air Wing, who was at Ground Zero from September 22 to October 6, "One
fireman told us that there was still molten steel at the heart of the
towers' remains. Firemen sprayed water to cool the debris down but
the heat remained intense enough at the surface to melt their boots."
- A retired professor of physics and atmospheric science said "in
mid-October when they would pull out a steel beam, the lower part
would be glowing dull red, which indicates a temperature on the order
of 500 to 600 °C. And we know that people were turning over pieces of
concrete in December that would flash into fire--which requires about
300 °C. So the surface of the pile cooled rather rapidly, but the bulk
of the pile stayed hot all the way to December."
- A fireman stated that there were "oven" like conditions at the trade centers six weeks after 9/11.
- Firemen and hazardous materials experts also stated that, six weeks after 9/11, "There
are pieces of steel being pulled out [from as far as six stories
underground] that are still cherry red" and "the blaze is so 'far beyond
a normal fire' that it is nearly impossible to draw conclusions about
it based on other fires." (pay-per-view)
- A NY Department of Sanitation spokeswoman said "for
about two and a half months after the attacks, in addition to its
regular duties, NYDS played a major role in debris removal - everything
from molten steel beams to human remains...."
- New York mayor Rudy Giuliani said "They were standing on top of a cauldron. They were standing on top of fires 2,000 degrees that raged for a hundred days."
- As late as five months after the attacks, in February 2002, firefighter Joe O'Toole saw a steel beam being lifted from deep underground at Ground Zero, which, he says, "was dripping from the molten steel."
- A rescue worker "crawled through an opening and down crumpled stairwells to the subway five levels below ground. He remembers seeing in the darkness a distant, pinkish glow–molten metal dripping from a beam"
- See also witness statements at the beginning of this video.
The
fact that there was molten steel under ground zero for months after
9/11 is very odd, especially since firefighters sprayed millions of
gallons of water on the fires and applied high-tech fire retardants.
Specifically, 4 million gallons of water were dropped on Ground Zero within the first 10 days after September 11, according to the U.S. Department of Energy's Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratories:
The
spraying continued for months afterward (the 10 day period was simply
the timeframe in which the DOE was sampling). Enormous amounts of
water were hosed on Ground Zero continuously, day and night:
This photograph may capture a sense of how wet the ground became due to the constant spraying:
Moreover, the fires were sprayed with thousands of gallons of high tech fire-retardants.
It was not the collapses which caused steel to melt. Specifically, a professor emeritus of physics has proven that the collapses themselves could not have melted steel. And Brent Blanchard - a recognized expert in controlled demolition - stated in a telephone interview with physicist Steven Jonesv that he has witnessed hundreds of controlled demolitions, but has never seen molten metal at any of the demolition sites.
So how does NIST explain the molten metal? It denies its existence:
»
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Fair question. No I don't. I just don't think EVERY SINGLE THING is a conspiracy like our buddy George Washington does. This guy doesn't even blink about posting conspiracy theories which conflict with each other 12 hours apart. See, for example, his famous (infamous?) "The Seals Didn't Really Kill Bin Laden" and "Waterboarding Delayed our Killing of Bin Laden" posts of a few weeks back. Disinformation indeed. It's ALL a conspiracy, right Georgie?
Looks like fighting fire with fire to me...
Love your posts, GW. Especially fun to see how you manage to bring out more and more of the shills and sock puppets. You are hitting some nerves and the fact they are fighting back so hard shows they are beginning to lose the information war.
TPOG
Abso-freaking-luetly. Well said Davey.
I came to Zero Hedge because of my training and interest in finance. After discovering the ugly truths about what I had been taught in school and what the MSM pushes everyday, I looked into 9/11 truth because of the honesty presented at this site. I am not alone in this regard.
Anyone who puts even a small amount of time looking into it and is capable of facing the ugly truth will see there is government involvement and cover up with 9/11.
And I came to this site from a background in prosecution and criminal law and a growing realization that my world and yours were crashing violently together this site then taught me the other vast areas of government corruption and propaganda it is good to be with folks who have a brain and some integrity
Limited to one area? Or even time-span.
Everyone with ears should listen to the invterview and see the video on this page. Things are starting to tie together fairly quickly. Try to keep up, or you may get lost and this one is big. The house of cards is tumbling pretty fast now...
Let me know what you think.
http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2011/05/plot-thickens-debt-collector-obamas.html
I will tell you what I think, Orly. I think the 'good guys' lose this round. And I think you are pretty damn awesome.
So it goes. Is heaven a place on earth or are we in hell? You be the judge. Regardless:
http://rememberbuilding7.org/wp-content/w3tc/pgcache/_index.html.gzip
And just b/c I am really tired of this shit (and it is a Tuesday night) here we go:
Joe Biden says he is a Zionist.
I am a Scientist.
Figure it out for yourself. 9/11 was an inside job.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN9x6zckn18
Well, perhaps some things are as they seem.
Just not the most glaringly obvious PsyOp conducting since Kennedy got got.
2, 4, 5, 6, 7, 9, 18 ...
Twenty-Five Rules of DisinformationLet me guess: It's the number of dastardly world wide conspiracies you uncovered this week? Or perhaps the number of medications you are on?
How does a 1300ft tall building collapse into a 30ft tall debris pile? ...there is another theory coming out that the WTC were mostly gutted out before the attack...no wire, no office furniture, missing core columns etc., etc., just lots of paper. In a pancake situation the massive Core columns should still be standing.
Or, how do 2 1300 ft tall buildings collapse at free fall speed through the path of GREATEST RESISTANCE? How does concrete, bodies, and steel become pulverized from falling and yet a passport emerges intact on top of the pile?
I'm sure a few people would have noticed thousands of piece of furniture being moved out the evening before
FBI discovered amongst the debris passports belonging to the hijackers
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=oKktAAAAIBAJ&sjid=fHgFAAAAIBAJ&pg=3...
And the BBC discovered the alCIAda hijackers are ALIVE!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/1559151.stm
and Mark Haines insisted there was a third plane that hit the WTC and then along with Kernen speculated that a bomb was planted in the building along with a second explosion at the Pentagon
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6w63ebNWCY
Mark Haines and Joe Kernen? Well, heck, if I had known that those two paragons of probity and intellectual acuity had said things like that while it was happening, I never would have believed the official story. Oh, and Kernen has a new book saying it's unfair to name the bankers for doing anything wrong in the financial collapse. He must be right.
GW,
YES I will DEF call them TRAITORS too. You are a pathetic weasel. An imbecile. So we are to believe in this massive conspiracy - spanning 2 presidencies and no leaks. Wow. Fact is GW - you lack talent so you use imagination. I state again - anyone who states or implies 9/11 was an inside job is a pathetic anti-American traitor.
9/11 was an inside job, Bubba. CIA, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Mossad and big money.
Operation Northern Defender and Operation Vigilant Guardian and all these others set it up. The simulations "went-live"; same as 7/7/05 in London.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Guardian
You are scared and this shatters your fragile-eggshell world.
Grow up, Big Boy!
You are loyal to who and more importatly what principles? Truth, the reported facts, Liberty and justice for all, our constututution?
The historical fact that kings, presidents, politicians will lie, cheat, torture, and murder their own people for personal gain and power is replete with real examples, but then that would require you to read history books, or read about Hitler's rise to power, or Stalins, or our latest example, G. W. Bush in ordering and executing 9-11.
Grow up and start acting and talking like an honest citizen of this country who damands that the accusation made by many thousands of citizens that our government ordered and carried out the mass murder of 3000 americans be investigated by a real cop and prosecuter, not a government commission, the sure sign of a government cover-up.
Anyone who questions The Reich is a traitor
Oh no. I'm a traitor to the Slaver Constitution and the shat upon Bill of Rights. Bummer.
Anyone who ignores the decades long collaboration between Uncle Sam and alCIAda, choosing instead to believe an idiotic, miracle-based fairy tale spun by John Ashcroft and his merry band of FBI snitches is smoking way too much of that Afghan opium!
What forces causes 50 story buildings to spontaneously pulverize themselves into dust?
You're a cAsswiper.
I am loyal to the Constitution, the ideals of our Founding Fathers and the American people.
You are loyal to ... ?
I repeat my question: Who are YOU loyal to, Bubba?
Bubba's loyalties-
+ Budweiser
+ WWE
+ Bass Pro Shops
+ Cope Snuff
+ Toothless Women
dont hate
not his physics teacher
+1
Was there ever a "give me liberty or death" person?
If so, what are the chances there will be another one in our lifetime?
The future is now. Be prepared.
Was there ever a "give me liberty or death" person?
If so, what are the chances there will be another one in our lifetime?
The future is now. Be prepared.
Was there ever a "give me liberty or death" person?
If so, what are the chances there will be another one in our lifetime?
The future is now. Be prepared.
Was there ever a "give me liberty or death" person?
If so, what are the chances there will be another one in our lifetime?
The future is now. Be prepared.
If you want to get junked, participate in a 9/11 conspiracy thread. Geesh, and to think I was starting to take some of your financial advice seriously. Occams razor people. Google it.
You have to make a whole lot of presumptions if you believe in the official conspiracy, so your point blows up in your face.
You have to make a whole lot of presumptions if you believe in the official conspiracy, so your point blows up in your face.
Occams razor does not imply that one should ignore the facts and believe in fairytales. There are dozens of issues with the government story that do not add up. I used to be a blind believer too until I started watching the videos and analyzing the government's official lies. Does it make sense that in the mountain of debris where steel melted, concrete burned, that they found two perfectly intact passports from the hijackers just one day after the buildings collapsed?
The crux of your entire argument for a massive government conspiracy and cover-up is that a passport was found. Brilliant.
Dr. Establishment Troll-
If you find no problem with 2 passports finding their way out of exploded airplanes, landing safely in the streets below, perhaps you can review any of the other hundred details listed above.
2, 5, 18 ...
Twenty-Five Rules of DisinformationGW,
You are a TRAITOR to your country and an idiot on top of that. And all you other conspiracy theorists are idiots as well. This isn't freedom of speech - it goes way beyond that. It is no different than those sickos who protest at dead soldiers funerals. Pathetic
No bubba1231
you are part of the criminal conspiracy to cover-up G, W. Bush'w ordering and carrying out 9-11.
Your the traitor and so pathetic.
The Founding Fathers were traitors to their country and many loyalists considered them to be idiots.
Many thousands of soldiers lost their lives and limbs because of cheerleading morons like you.
Funny, funny stuff.
Why did physics stop working on 9/11? Why was an FBI snitch living with 2 of the 'hijackers'?
yes bubba, the founders first rule was to never question your government. I think it's one of the three pillars of democracy. And your're right, political speech is the lowest form of protected speech. But your best analogy by far is comparing an analysis of physical evidence with religious zealots who think fallen soldiers have something to do with homosexuals and hell.
Thanks for the example of numbers 2, 5, 6, 7 and 18!
Twenty-Five Rules of DisinformationIn fact, sir, many high-level U.S. military officers and intelligence officers question 9/11. Are you going to call THEM traitors, sir?
You guys want to read some crazy shyte? Hold on to your hats. This is one of the best investigative pieces I have read on what really happened on 9/11. I've read almost everything there is to read since 2003. I didn't come across this until this year. I've read all 59 pages and it's hard to poke holes in their financial analysis. I have an ivy economics degree and wall st. experience. If they were half-assing on their rationale or analysis I would have picked up on it. I double-checked some of their assertions and these guys are bang on. This also provides a clue as to why all of the "9/11 Truth" discussions and groups are hijacked by agents masquerading as friendlies and steered towards topics away from the truth. The 25 Rules of Disinformation that GW smartly references are the low-level playbook. There are ultra sophisticated and well tested disinfo techniques used by intelligence bureaus to monitor and manage truth discovery.
Here's an excerpt from the first page. Eat your heart out:
This article provides research into the early claims by Dick Eastman, Tom Flocco, V.K. Durham and Karl Schwarz that the September 11th attacks were meant as a cover-up for financial crimes being investigated by the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI), whose offices in the Pentagon were destroyed on September 11th.
After six years of research, this report presents corroborating evidence which supports their claims, and proposes a new rationale for the September 11th attacks. In doing so, many of the anomalies – or inconvenient facts surrounding this event - take on a meaning that is consistent with the claims of Eastman et al. The hypothesis of this report is: the attacks of September 11th were intended to cover-up the clearing of $240 billion dollars in securities covertly created in September 1991 to fund a covert economic war against the Soviet Union, during which ‘unknown’ western investors bought up much of the Soviet industry, with a focus on oil and gas. The attacks of September 11th also served to derail multiple Federal investigations away from crimes associated with the 1991 covert operation. In doing so, the attacks were justified under the cardinal rule of intelligence: “protect your resources” and consistent with a modus operandi of sacrificing lives for a greater cause.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/55864493/Unicorns-and-Glitter
"...BINGO...BINGO...BINGO..."
We got a winner!
Read 'em and weep... all you 9-11MORONs!
Cui Bono !!!
an airplane falls from the sky and they will dig it up no matter the cost... re assemble it and diagnose the point of failure
.
a building falls from the sky... well who can question that
a building and a bunch of airplanes
To quote Chris Hedges:
"at this point it is impossible to bridge the divide between a literate, marginalized minority and those who have been consumed by an illiterate mass culture.”
Amazing how millions of citizens refuse to investigate other possibilities for this mass casualty. After countless hours of the same rhetoric in the MSM, you can't even challenge the defacto opinion anymore?
That's exactly how they want it. Sad, but true.