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Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers Of Fukushima Are Worse And Longer-lived Than We Think

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Submitted by Chris Martenson

Exclusive Arnie Gundersen Interview: The Dangers Of Fukushima Are Worse And Longer-lived Than We Think

"I have said it's worse than Chernobyl and I’ll stand by that. There was an enormous amount of radiation given out in the first two to three weeks of the event. And add the wind and blowing in-land. It could very well have brought the nation of Japan to its knees. I mean, there is so much contamination that luckily wound up in the Pacific Ocean as compared to across the nation of Japan - it could have cut Japan in half. But now the winds have turned, so they are heading to the south toward Tokyo and now my concern and my advice to friends that if there is a severe aftershock and the Unit 4 building collapses, leave. We are well beyond where any science has ever gone at that point and nuclear fuel lying on the ground and getting hot is not a condition that anyone has ever analyzed."

So cautions Arnie Gundersen, widely-regarded to be the best nuclear analyst covering Japan's Fukushima disaster. The situation on the ground at the crippled reactors remains precarious and at a minimum it will be years before it can be hoped to be truly contained. In the near term, the reactors remain particularly vulnerable to sizable aftershocks, which still have decent probability of occuring. On top of this is a growing threat of 'hot particle' contamination risk to more populated areas as weather patterns shift with the typhoon season and groundwater seepage.

In Part 1 of this interview, Chris and Arnie recap the damage wrought to Fukushima's reactors by the tsunami, the steps TEPCO is taking to address it, and the biggest operational risks that remain at this time. In Part 2, they dive into the health risks still posed by the situation there and what individuals should do (including those on the US west coast) if it worsens.

Click here to listen to Part 1 of Chris' interview with Arnie Gundersen (runtime 36m:31s)

Report a Problem Playing the Podcast

Or start reading the transcript below:

Chris Martenson: Let’s just briefly review – if we could just synopsize – I know you can do this better than anybody. What happened at Fukushima – what happened and I really would like to take the opportunity to talk about this kind of specifically, like where we are with each one of the reactors. So first of all, this disaster – how did it happen? Was it just bad engineering, was it really bad luck with the tsunami? How did this even initiate – something we were told again and again – something that couldn’t happen seems to have happened?

Arnie Gundersen: Well the little bit of physics here is that even when a reactor shuts down; it continues to churn out heat. Now, only five percent of the original amount of heat, but when you are cranking out millions of horsepower of heat, five percent is still a lot. So you have to keep a nuclear reactor cool after it shuts down. Now, what happened at Fukushima was it went into what is called a “station blackout,” and people plan for that. That means there is no power to anything except for batteries. And batteries can’t turn the massive motors that are required to cool the nuclear reactor. So the plan is in a station blackout is that somehow or another you get power back in four or five hours. That didn’t happen at Fukushima because the tidal wave, the tsunami, was so great that it overwhelmed their diesels and it overwhelmed something called “service water 2” But in any event, they couldn’t get any power to the big pumps.

Now, was it foreseeable? They were prepared for a seven-meter tsunami, about twenty-two feet. The tsunami that hit was something in excess of ten and quite likely fifteen meters, so somewhere between thirty-five and forty-five feet. They were warned that the tsunami that they were designed against was too low. They were warned for at least ten years and I am sure that there were people back before that. So would they have been prepared for one this big? I don’t know, but certainly, they were unprepared for even a tsunami of lesser magnitude.

Chris Martenson: So the tsunami came along and just swamped the systems and I heard that there were some other design elements there too, such as potentially the generators were in an unsafe spot or that some of their electrical substations all happened to be in the basement, so they kind of got taken out all at once. Now, here’s what I heard – the initial reports when they came out said, “Oh, nothing to fear, we all went into SCRAM,” which is some kind of emergency shutdown and they said everything is SCRAMed and I knew that we were in trouble in less than twenty-four hours, they talked about how they were pumping seawater in. Which I assume, by the time you are pumping seawater you have a pretty clear indication from the outside that there is something really quite wrong with this story, is that true?

Arnie Gundersen: Yes. Seawater and as anybody who has ever had a boat on the ocean would know, saltwater and stainless steel do not get along very well. Saltwater and stainless steel at five hundred degrees don’t get along very well at all. You are right, they had some single points of vulnerability – the hole in the armor and the diesels were one of them. But even if the diesels were up high, they would have been in trouble because of those service water pumps I talked about. And they got wiped out and those pumps are the pumps that cool the diesels. So even if the diesels were runnable, cooling water that runs through the diesels would have been taken out by the tsunami anyway. So it's kind of a false argument to blame the diesels.

Chris Martenson: Okay, so take us through. Reactor number one, it was revealed I think about a week ago now that they finally came to the revelation that I think some of us had come to independently, that there had been something more than a partial meltdown, maybe even a complete meltdown. What is your assessment of reactor one and where is it right now?

Arnie Gundersen: When you see hydrogen explosions, that means that the outside of the fuel has exceeded 2,200 degrees and the inside is well over 3,500 degrees. The fuel gets brittle, it burns, and then it plops to the bottom of the nuclear reactor in a molten blob like lava. It was pretty clear to a lot of people, including apparently to the NRC, but they weren’t telling people back in March, that that had occurred in reactor one. There was essentially a blob of lava on the bottom of the nuclear reactor. So I have to separate this – a nuclear reactor - and that is inside of a containment. So there is still one more barrier here. But the problem is that the reactor had boiled dry and they were using fire pumps connected to the ocean to pump saltwater into the reactor. Now, if this thing were individual tubes, the water could get around the uranium and completely cool it. But when it's a blob at the bottom of the reactor, it can only get to the top surface and that would cause it to begin to meltdown. Now, on these boiling water reactors, there are about seventy holes in the bottom of the reactor where the control rods come in and I suspect that those holes were essentially the weak link that caused this molten mass. Now it's 5,000 degrees at the center, even though the outside may be touching water, the inside of this molten mass is 5,000 degrees. It melts through and lies on the bottom of the containment.

That’s where we are today. We have no reactor essentially, just a big pressure cooker. The molten uranium is on the bottom of the containment. It spreads out at that point, because the floor is flat. And I don’t think it's going to melt its way through the concrete floor. It may gradually over time; but the damage is already done because the containment has cracks in it and it's pretty clear that it is leaking. So you put water in the top. And the plan had never been to put water in the top and let it run out the bottom. That is not the preferred way of cooling a nuclear reactor in an accident. But you are putting water in the top and it's running out the bottom and it's going out through cracks in the containment, after touching directly uranium and plutonium and cesium and strontium and is carrying all those radioactive isotopes out as liquids and gases into the environment.

Chris Martenson: So this melting that happened, is this just a function of the decay heat at this point in time? We’re not speculating that there has been any sort of re-criticality or any other what we might call a nuclear reaction – this is just decay heat from the isotopes that are in there from prior nuclear activity – those are just decaying and giving off that heat. That’s sufficient to get to 5,000 degrees?

Arnie Gundersen: Yes, once the uranium melts into a blob at these low enrichments, four and five percent, it can’t make a new criticality. If criticality is occurring on the site - and there might be, because there is still iodine 131, which is a good indication - it is not coming from the Unit 1 core and it's not coming from the Unit 2 core, because those are both blobs at the bottom of the containment.

Chris Martenson: All right, so we have these blobs, they’ve somehow escaped the primary reactor pressure vessel, which is that big steel thing and now they are on the relatively flat floor of the containment – they concrete piece – and you say Unit 2 is roughly the same story as Unit 1 – where’s Unit 3 in this story?

Arnie Gundersen: Unit 3 may not have melted through and that means that some of the fuel certainly is lying on the bottom, but it may not have melted through and some of the fuel may still look like fuel, although it is certainly brittle. And it's possible that when the fuel is in that configuration that you can get a re-criticality. It's also possible in any of the fuel pools, one, two, three, and four pools, that you could get a criticality, as well. So there’s been frequent enough high iodine indications to lead me to believe that either one of the four fuel pools or the Unit 3 reactor is in fact, every once in a while starting itself up and then it gets to a point where it gets so hot that it shuts itself down and it kind of cycles. It kind of breathes, if you will.

To read the rest of the transcript to Part 1, click here.

 

Click here to access Part 2 of this interview (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access)

On Fri, Jun 3, 2011 at 1:09 PM, Adam Taggart wrote:
Tyler -

We just posted a very in-depth exclusive interview with Arnie Gunderson. While forgotten by the mainstreet media, the risks of Fukushima are still very real, large & precarious.

http://www.chrismartenson.com/blog/exclusive-arnie-gundersen-interview-d...

HTML below. --tx, Adam

"I have said it's worse than Chernobyl and I’ll stand by that. There was an enormous amount of radiation given out in the first two to three weeks of the event. And add the wind and blowing in-land. It could very well have brought the nation of Japan to its knees. I mean, there is so much contamination that luckily wound up in the Pacific Ocean as compared to across the nation of Japan - it could have cut Japan in half. But now the winds have turned, so they are heading to the south toward Tokyo and now my concern and my advice to friends that if there is a severe aftershock and the Unit 4 building collapses, leave. We are well beyond where any science has ever gone at that point and nuclear fuel lying on the ground and getting hot is not a condition that anyone has ever analyzed."

So cautions Arnie Gundersen, widely-regarded to be the best nuclear analyst covering Japan's Fukushima disaster. The situation on the ground at the crippled reactors remains precarious and at a minimum it will be years before it can be hoped to be truly contained. In the near term, the reactors remain particularly vulnerable to sizable aftershocks, which still have decent probability of occuring. On top of this is a growing threat of 'hot particle' contamination risk to more populated areas as weather patterns shift with the typhoon season and groundwater seepage.

In Part 1 of this interview, Chris and Arnie recap the damage wrought to Fukushima's reactors by the tsunami, the steps TEPCO is taking to address it, and the biggest operational risks that remain at this time. In Part 2, they dive into the health risks still posed by the situation there and what individuals should do (including those on the US west coast) if it worsens.

Click the play button below to listen to Part 1 of Chris' interview with Arnie Gundersen (runtime 36m:31s):

[swf file="http://media.chrismartenson.com/audio/arnie-gundersen-2011-06-03-part1.m..."]

Download/Play the Podcast

Report a Problem Playing the Podcast

Or start reading the transcript below:

Chris Martenson: Let’s just briefly review – if we could just synopsize – I know you can do this better than anybody. What happened at Fukushima – what happened and I really would like to take the opportunity to talk about this kind of specifically, like where we are with each one of the reactors. So first of all, this disaster – how did it happen? Was it just bad engineering, was it really bad luck with the tsunami? How did this even initiate – something we were told again and again – something that couldn’t happen seems to have happened?

Arnie Gundersen: Well the little bit of physics here is that even when a reactor shuts down; it continues to churn out heat. Now, only five percent of the original amount of heat, but when you are cranking out millions of horsepower of heat, five percent is still a lot. So you have to keep a nuclear reactor cool after it shuts down. Now, what happened at Fukushima was it went into what is called a “station blackout,” and people plan for that. That means there is no power to anything except for batteries. And batteries can’t turn the massive motors that are required to cool the nuclear reactor. So the plan is in a station blackout is that somehow or another you get power back in four or five hours. That didn’t happen at Fukushima because the tidal wave, the tsunami, was so great that it overwhelmed their diesels and it overwhelmed something called “service water 2” But in any event, they couldn’t get any power to the big pumps.

Now, was it foreseeable? They were prepared for a seven-meter tsunami, about twenty-two feet. The tsunami that hit was something in excess of ten and quite likely fifteen meters, so somewhere between thirty-five and forty-five feet. They were warned that the tsunami that they were designed against was too low. They were warned for at least ten years and I am sure that there were people back before that. So would they have been prepared for one this big? I don’t know, but certainly, they were unprepared for even a tsunami of lesser magnitude.

Chris Martenson: So the tsunami came along and just swamped the systems and I heard that there were some other design elements there too, such as potentially the generators were in an unsafe spot or that some of their electrical substations all happened to be in the basement, so they kind of got taken out all at once. Now, here’s what I heard – the initial reports when they came out said, “Oh, nothing to fear, we all went into SCRAM,” which is some kind of emergency shutdown and they said everything is SCRAMed and I knew that we were in trouble in less than twenty-four hours, they talked about how they were pumping seawater in. Which I assume, by the time you are pumping seawater you have a pretty clear indication from the outside that there is something really quite wrong with this story, is that true?

Arnie Gundersen: Yes. Seawater and as anybody who has ever had a boat on the ocean would know, saltwater and stainless steel do not get along very well. Saltwater and stainless steel at five hundred degrees don’t get along very well at all. You are right, they had some single points of vulnerability – the hole in the armor and the diesels were one of them. But even if the diesels were up high, they would have been in trouble because of those service water pumps I talked about. And they got wiped out and those pumps are the pumps that cool the diesels. So even if the diesels were runnable, cooling water that runs through the diesels would have been taken out by the tsunami anyway. So it's kind of a false argument to blame the diesels.

Chris Martenson: Okay, so take us through. Reactor number one, it was revealed I think about a week ago now that they finally came to the revelation that I think some of us had come to independently, that there had been something more than a partial meltdown, maybe even a complete meltdown. What is your assessment of reactor one and where is it right now?

Arnie Gundersen: When you see hydrogen explosions, that means that the outside of the fuel has exceeded 2,200 degrees and the inside is well over 3,500 degrees. The fuel gets brittle, it burns, and then it plops to the bottom of the nuclear reactor in a molten blob like lava. It was pretty clear to a lot of people, including apparently to the NRC, but they weren’t telling people back in March, that that had occurred in reactor one. There was essentially a blob of lava on the bottom of the nuclear reactor. So I have to separate this – a nuclear reactor - and that is inside of a containment. So there is still one more barrier here. But the problem is that the reactor had boiled dry and they were using fire pumps connected to the ocean to pump saltwater into the reactor. Now, if this thing were individual tubes, the water could get around the uranium and completely cool it. But when it's a blob at the bottom of the reactor, it can only get to the top surface and that would cause it to begin to meltdown. Now, on these boiling water reactors, there are about seventy holes in the bottom of the reactor where the control rods come in and I suspect that those holes were essentially the weak link that caused this molten mass. Now it's 5,000 degrees at the center, even though the outside may be touching water, the inside of this molten mass is 5,000 degrees. It melts through and lies on the bottom of the containment.

That’s where we are today. We have no reactor essentially, just a big pressure cooker. The molten uranium is on the bottom of the containment. It spreads out at that point, because the floor is flat. And I don’t think it's going to melt its way through the concrete floor. It may gradually over time; but the damage is already done because the containment has cracks in it and it's pretty clear that it is leaking. So you put water in the top. And the plan had never been to put water in the top and let it run out the bottom. That is not the preferred way of cooling a nuclear reactor in an accident. But you are putting water in the top and it's running out the bottom and it's going out through cracks in the containment, after touching directly uranium and plutonium and cesium and strontium and is carrying all those radioactive isotopes out as liquids and gases into the environment.

Chris Martenson: So this melting that happened, is this just a function of the decay heat at this point in time? We’re not speculating that there has been any sort of re-criticality or any other what we might call a nuclear reaction – this is just decay heat from the isotopes that are in there from prior nuclear activity – those are just decaying and giving off that heat. That’s sufficient to get to 5,000 degrees?

Arnie Gundersen: Yes, once the uranium melts into a blob at these low enrichments, four and five percent, it can’t make a new criticality. If criticality is occurring on the site - and there might be, because there is still iodine 131, which is a good indication - it is not coming from the Unit 1 core and it's not coming from the Unit 2 core, because those are both blobs at the bottom of the containment.

Chris Martenson: All right, so we have these blobs, they’ve somehow escaped the primary reactor pressure vessel, which is that big steel thing and now they are on the relatively flat floor of the containment – they concrete piece – and you say Unit 2 is roughly the same story as Unit 1 – where’s Unit 3 in this story?

Arnie Gundersen: Unit 3 may not have melted through and that means that some of the fuel certainly is lying on the bottom, but it may not have melted through and some of the fuel may still look like fuel, although it is certainly brittle. And it's possible that when the fuel is in that configuration that you can get a re-criticality. It's also possible in any of the fuel pools, one, two, three, and four pools, that you could get a criticality, as well. So there’s been frequent enough high iodine indications to lead me to believe that either one of the four fuel pools or the Unit 3 reactor is in fact, every once in a while starting itself up and then it gets to a point where it gets so hot that it shuts itself down and it kind of cycles. It kind of breathes, if you will.

To read the rest of the transcript to Part 1, click here.

 

Click here to access Part 2 of this interview (free executive summary, enrollment required for full access)

 


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Fri, 06/03/2011 - 16:48 | Link to Comment sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

Damn...just damn.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:23 | Link to Comment andybev01
andybev01's picture

*pardon the intrusion*

How can I tell what exactly, has been 'updated' in an article? I read this story when it first was posted, then saw "New Updated" in red so I opened it again and can't tell what the new info is...

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:06 | Link to Comment blindman
blindman's picture


thanks for pointing this out.
i have wondered many a time ....?
give us a clue like bold type?
something.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:35 | Link to Comment Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

I was kinda hoping in some sort of crossing my fingers way, that maybe the update was that everyone was joking and Japan wasn't fucked.  No such luck.  Japan is such a mess, and it is not looking any better with typhoon season.

http://www.wunderground.com/tropical/

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:34 | Link to Comment Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

We fixed the link to the original podcast.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 09:04 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

My link still didn't work. (BTW-I did a podcast with Chris and you didn't link it. I feel like chopped liver. I'm gonna need a shrink.)

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:15 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Damn!

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 16:49 | Link to Comment JailBank
JailBank's picture

Bullish then?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:07 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Totally bullish.  Unless I'm mistaken, this radiation will produce a giant lizard which will protect Japan from other giant creatures such as moths, apes, and megalons.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:26 | Link to Comment camaro68ss
camaro68ss's picture

Thats good for what, 500+ points for the DOW

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:42 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

At least.  Here is a 1 minute video explaining everything.  Note the number of broken windows that will need repairing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QOiSU36_WTU&feature=related

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:57 | Link to Comment divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

Yep, this all spells "investment in infrastructure", better than QE!

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:00 | Link to Comment MrFriskles
MrFriskles's picture

So, job creation in Japan yes?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:52 | Link to Comment Logans_Run
Logans_Run's picture

Not central bankers though?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:02 | Link to Comment Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

I don't know how Godzilla would do against a giant vampire squid.  Any answer I could give would merely be speculation on my part.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:53 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

There's a Weather Related App for that.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 21:42 | Link to Comment Milestones
Milestones's picture

Not Bankers and attorney's??      Milestones     

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 15:31 | Link to Comment The Architect
The Architect's picture

Bullish for live tentacle porn

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 16:53 | Link to Comment cossack55
cossack55's picture

"It kind of breathes, if you will."  I have found that generally speaking, nuke reactors that "breathe" will usually cause you to stop breathing.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 16:52 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Very transitory.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment cougar_w
cougar_w's picture

On a geological time frame, absolutely. Flash in the pan. Nothing to this at all. The islands that make up Japan will subduct under the Pacific plate and there goes your problem.

People like the excitement. But a few million years from now none of this will matter.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:26 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Yeah, subduct you, Fuku! (that'll teach 'em)

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:40 | Link to Comment zeroman
zeroman's picture

I heard the US Fed Reserve and the Bank of Japan will be offering a new Nuclear Reactor Bond which will be a really hot rate of return and guarantee of no default!! 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:55 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Assholes at TEPCO shoulda gotten No Fault Insurance.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:28 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I'm hearing this a lot more lately: The situation in Fukushima is stable, serious but stable". This is usually supported by: "The Japanese experts are working tirelessly to solve the problem." Lying out of both sides of their mouth. This bitch needs beheading, like yesterday. The world needs to solve this, not just Japan, and then the whole shebang needs mothballing, from mining to production. Ain't gonna be easy.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:56 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Ah hah!  But now the plot thickens....
Gotta figure out which side of both mouths thay're lying out of now...

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:02 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Nothing like that appears possible in the current climate.  Everybody seems to be so distracted about money they can't spare the attention to be worried about a little thing like maybe radiation poisoning the entire northern hemisphere.  

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 02:29 | Link to Comment oldman
oldman's picture

But a few million years from now none of this will matter.

It matters now only to the species that created this disaster; for all the others it has never mattered nor will it in the future. No further comment is necessary.

I'm curious to see how this ends.


Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:22 | Link to Comment equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

lol quite.   in fact , if you look at this in the time frame of our galaxy's existence , its very transitory , just like our species.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 16:56 | Link to Comment PhattyBuoy
PhattyBuoy's picture

I say bullshit on #3 ... if #1 & #2 are "core on the floor", then #3 damn sure is too ...

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 16:57 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Given the size of the explosion at Reactor 3, "core on the floor" is probably a best case scenario.  I wouldn't be surprised if it blew all over the place.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:00 | Link to Comment TomGa
TomGa's picture

The #3 explosion could very well have been the fuel pool going critical. Recall that with #3 there was a hydrogen explosion followed a millisecond or so later by what appears to have been a steam explosion. Later pictures have shown a completely devastated #3 fuel pool but have also shown that the top of the #3 containment vessel is still in place. My bet is that a prompt moderated criticality caused a flash steam explosion which was somewhat contained and directed by the walls of the #3 fuel pool straight up. It's quite possible that the initial hydrogen explosion caused a rearrangement of the spent fuel racks leading to the criticality.  Pieces of spent fuel from #3 have been found up to two  miles away from the building, so I'm tending to believe this scenario.

Thus, while it's highly likely that #3 reactor is in the same state as #'s 1 and 2, at this time I don't think it was a failure of the pressure vessel that occurred in the tremedous initial blast.

 

All in all, though, Japan is still royally screwed.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 09:26 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

Pieces of spent fuel from #3 have been found up to two  miles away from the building, so I'm tending to believe this scenario.

If this is true (very likely), then the site is too hot to do any significant cleanup and north central Japan is fucked ...for a few thousand years anyway.

Keeping decades of spent fuel, hundreds of tons, right next to those reactors in elevated pools made of nothing more than concrete, right on top of a major tectonic plate subduction zone, will prove to be one of the most catastrophic blunders in human history.

Yes, the entire northern hemisphere might be contaminated by it.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:02 | Link to Comment divide_by_zero
divide_by_zero's picture

#1 radiation bouncing up and down every few days in big swings,

http://atmc.jp/plant/rad/?n=1

 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment sulfur
Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:05 | Link to Comment apberusdisvet
apberusdisvet's picture

The recovery pumpers need to be re-indocrinated as to how to spin the fact that it is almost all over for the world's 3rd largest economy.  DOW to 600 by Chistmas as the truth comes out about the radiation fallout over the US.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 08:05 | Link to Comment ibjamming
ibjamming's picture

I sure hope you're wrong... 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:09 | Link to Comment Laddie
Laddie's picture

Did Katie Couric or Brian Williams or Dianne Sawyer talk about these?

 

April 22 OH Radiation Release, Plant Evacuation Admitted By NRC

 

Tuesday, May 10, 2011 SunHerald Biloxi-Gulfport
April tritium release from nuclear reactor still not measured
Tritium released by Grand Gulf still not measured

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:10 | Link to Comment chunga
chunga's picture

Posting this short video again. For some reason it hit me like a ton of bricks. Includes a post made on ZH.

THE REALITY DETACHED AMERICAN

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:25 | Link to Comment djsmps
djsmps's picture

That video hits home. I can be at work, or out at a bar, and no one is aware of what is going on. If you ask them about the earthquake, they may have heard about one. Most aren't aware at all of what is going on in the MENA area and that we are involved in a war with Libya. If they are employed, they don't have a clue about the economy. I asked one person last week, an intelligent young person, if he was aware that most products were manfactured in China. He was completely unaware. But they all know the winner of Dancing With The Stars.

What happened to this country?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:00 | Link to Comment chunga
chunga's picture

                                                  "It is no measure of mental health to be well adjusted to a profoundly sick society."

                                                                           "all these are the beginning of sorrows."

                                                                                            matthew 24: 8

My attendance at Places of Worship are normally restricted to funerals. I'm starting to re-think that. Yes, there is something special about that video.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:40 | Link to Comment equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

thanks for the link. that 4 minutes might even jolt my wife into realizing life wont "just keep going on like it has"

 

sometimes i wish i was just "free and clear" and i dont mean on my house.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 02:40 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

+1

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 07:48 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

did the leg work and the payback everkthing was a go to put a 10kw photovoltaic system on my roof and be payed $0.82 per kw. Government insentive with a binding contract for 20 years. Finanace, pay interest still make money. Win Win.

Needed wifes signiture. NFW!

American Idot zombie. These grapes come from Chile.

36 years and still keeping the harmony.

But when the shit hits the fan the first person to blame for her new missery will be yours truly

Yes she does need a weather man to know which way the wind blows.

 

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 10:16 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

These ETEs (end-time events) are happening with greater frequency now, just as scripture and other ancient sources predict.

America doesn't figure prominently in end-time prophecies.  One can read out of that anything they wish.  I read out of it that America wont be a significant player on the world scene at that time. 

I believe as things get worse in America (leading to America's downfall), we'll see wives blaming husbands for their collapsing living standard, when those wives stubbornly ignored what's happening around them, choosing to believe things will go on like normal, untill reality rips those rose-colored glasses from their eyes and they panic, blaming the closest person to them, dear ole hubby.

No, there's no way I would be married these days.  As things get worse a head-in-the-sand wife would become a liability, maybe even an enemy.

And no I'm not saying all wives. I said head-in-the-sand wives.

And yes I'm sure there's some head-in-the-sand husbands out there too.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:16 | Link to Comment Misstrial
Misstrial's picture

Thank you for that link. Just underscores what I've been thinking already.

Today I read that The Bad Girls Club gets about 1.7M viewers per episode.

The consequences are going to be a lot worse than anyone has imagined....

~Misstrial

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:06 | Link to Comment chunga
chunga's picture

You're welcome. Believe it or not I stumbled on it on a site from Taiwan while searching for something else. We all have to fight back in our own way.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:30 | Link to Comment LoneuhRanger
LoneuhRanger's picture

Very good. Thanks for that.

Twelve tries at the sign-in captcha. I am fucking stupider than some people already here. (edit for spelling)

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment merehuman
merehuman's picture

i felt stupid after 3 fails. You kept on, and there is the measure of your success. my hat is off to you for your stubbornness.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 00:33 | Link to Comment chunga
chunga's picture

I never log out (deliberately). Even with a calculator it's sometimes a fuss to get back in. Forgetting for a moment that I joined a whole nine weeks ago, I think it works. At times the correct solution to captcha exceeds the bucket maximum limit.

(The correct answer will absolutely not fit within the alloted space declared by an equation engineered to result in just that.)

It doesn't matter.

 

 

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 13:57 | Link to Comment Astrolabe
Astrolabe's picture

i thought i was the only idiot who consistently fails the captcha!

 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:45 | Link to Comment gall batter
gall batter's picture

I posted this after reading another article:  My son's college roommate is Japanese and lives in Tokyo.  My son emailed him to be sure he's okay and to get his take on Fukushima.  The guy was more interested in talking sports.  So, is it more than detachment? Something too enormous to acknowledge? Denial?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 21:22 | Link to Comment chunga
chunga's picture

Wow. I don't think any of us here in the ZH environment are detached. We may not agree on evrything but we're not detached.

Ordinarily, I am personally angry at what I see. This video made me sad. Then it made me more angry.

[edit]

Next time I bump into Tyler I'll ask him to throw it up top. It may "reattach" many. No charts, no ratios or graphs. It's simple.

 

 

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 07:16 | Link to Comment gall batter
gall batter's picture

my comment was in response to the video, The Reality Detached American, not that I think people on this site are detached.  

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 10:04 | Link to Comment chunga
chunga's picture

I understood what you meant. I was "wowing" at the student from Japan and the concern for sports. That makes me sad. It is just beyond comprehension how many people manage to keep humming along like all is well. To be in denial requires awareness and that seems to be missing.

What makes me angry is the well oiled and perfected infrastructure that exists and thrives on making them their prey.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 08:09 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

Joseph Conrad "The Secret Agent" (1907) made into a movie.

Looks at the state of mind of being pushed too far. The signs are all there if you open your eyes, which ZH readers seem to be doing well.

I listen to Ian Anderson, Dylan, Don McLean, Jonie Mitchell, etc. I do not believe the revolution will be televised.

A young lady, hired as a page, in Canada's Parliment pulled out a stop sign with "Stop Harper". She was fired but her words were clear 1/4 of the vote brought in a control freek with a mean streak and gave him absolute power. She and the rest of us hockey night in Canada dopes are being called out to protest with civil disobediance. This is the fight club test. This was her test. She has crossed the line and is stronger for it. Her principles may have been inconvenient but now they are granite.

Unfortuneately her generation, as all generations, party hearty.

thanks for the post. remember when we squeezed toothpaste from lead sleeves?

 

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 13:09 | Link to Comment Wild tree
Wild tree's picture

 Normal 0

Amen Chunga, Amen

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:08 | Link to Comment Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Come on now Japan has over come worse.  Remember not to long ago the U.S. nuked them.  

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:20 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

I'm assuming your post is sarcastic, however either way, it is important to note that in an atomic explosion the fuel (and associated radioactivity) is largely vaporized, and so the long term radiation fallout is potentially far less severe than a situation in which a much larger amount of nuclear fuel (as exists at Fukushima and all other nuclear reactors) is exposed to the environment perpetually.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:27 | Link to Comment DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

So when we end up nuking one of those pesky middle eastern countries, this is what we'll say

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:25 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

So when we end up nuking one of those pesky middle eastern countries, this is what we'll say to nearby Saudi Arabia to make them feel better.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:25 | Link to Comment Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

Yea I was trying to be a smartass.  I got an extra room, I'll take in a Japenese female.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:59 | Link to Comment breezer1
breezer1's picture

being an indentured sex slave to an asshole might be better than what awaits.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 23:15 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Really. But what if this happens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bR2j3WBpWH8

Enjoy the roomate.

 

 

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 09:41 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Ha ha!  AHAhahahahaha.  That's literally the FIRST time I've ever heard that on this site. It's SO fucking funny the 2,045th time. STFU and crawl in a hole.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:12 | Link to Comment benb
benb's picture

Gunderson is quite knowledgeable. I’ve heard his ongoing analysis many times. Realistically, as I have said from the beginning, Japan is gone. It may take a few years but the economy and the physical health of the Japanese people is going to be destroyed by this series of events. All the media lies and shameless political jawboning will not change the eventual outcome…sorry.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 08:43 | Link to Comment spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

He has a running commentary at http://www.fairewinds.com/updates . It is a great way to get thru the MSM bull and reminds me of the way news commentary used to be....

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Laddie
Laddie's picture

And the plan had never been to put water in the top and let it run out the bottom. That is not the preferred way of cooling a nuclear reactor in an accident. But you are putting water in the top and it's running out the bottom and it's going out through cracks in the containment, after touching directly uranium and plutonium and cesium and strontium and is carrying all those radioactive isotopes out as liquids and gases into the environment.

 

The Yellow Peril I think it's called, so much for the ADVANCED Nipponese

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:14 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

someone posting something about how this was supposed to be a 9.1 earthquake but there was no damage anywhere except after tidal wave hit. now, may i ask. where is the damage caused by the 9.1 earthquake, when we can see such  damage comparitively speaking vis a vis, the earthquake that happened at kobe for instance. it would appear, that the only damage caused was by the tidal wave. if that is the case, then how can this be?  how can there be a 9.1 earthquake, yet there was no damage to buildings anywhere, before the damage incurred from the water?  i find this a interesting point and a troubling point. is this another in this long framework of lies by the japanese government about all of this?  saving face?  one thing is for sure. if this was a true 9.1 earthquake like we were told, there would be untold massive damages done to buildings along the coast etc and elsewhere probably with massive human casualites as a direct result of the earthquake itself and not the tidalwave.  if the tidalwave is what caused the damage, then what caused the tidalwave? frankly i think the whole damn explanation and story stinks.....also isn't it true that 3 mile island also had hydrogen explosions , but this did not cause the roof to be blown off the structure?  if this is so, and it is, then what the hell is going on?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:30 | Link to Comment InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

If you think a 9.1 earthquake and 30' tidal wave can be faked by the boogey men, you might consider that the boogey man just might be God. So offer a prayer ---or something.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:00 | Link to Comment Dirtt
Dirtt's picture

C'mon!  You don't wonder for one second how Lloyd pulled this off?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 20:43 | Link to Comment equity_momo
equity_momo's picture

He pressed the red button of course. I thought everyone knew about Lloyds red button.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:31 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Ummmm... there was extensive damage from the quake itself. Even TEPCO has admitted the plant was already having problems before the tsunami.

I think the sheer amount of press surrounding the tsunami (especially video) has given you perception bias. If you think the quake didn't happen, you might want to go to Youtube and watch all the Tokyo skyscrapers swaying back and forth.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 21:14 | Link to Comment That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

The premise is that there was an earthquake (common in Japan) but that it was not a 9.1.  The earthquake was used as cover for the nuclear explosion and resulting tsunami.

I am not a believer nor a skeptic, just compiling the data and trying to make sense of it.

If Tokyo was so affected it makes one wonder why buildings in Sendai were not toppled.  There may be a good rational explanation for this fact.

TPOG

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:44 | Link to Comment TomGa
TomGa's picture

TEPCO recently admitted that radiation alarms started ringing just after the earthquake and before the tsunami.  It has become apparent that the earthquake did substantial damage to the foundations of the reactor buildings, the fuel pools, pipes and also cracked the containment vessels through which contaminated water is now leaking. The tsunami itself knocked out the power. An unlikely One-Two punch leading to a complete knock out.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 21:06 | Link to Comment That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

You are looking for this:

http://www.jimstonefreelance.com/fukushima.html

Not sure quite what to make of it myself.  It is true that you don't see what appears to be earthquake damage.  But on the other hand the epicenter was about 40 miles off the coast.  I have not been able to find a similar quake to compare the damage to.

There is also a site from a few years back hypothesizing that the Sumatra tsunami was caused by an underwater nuclear explosion.  Other aspects of the site are suspect, so it is hard to know if it makes any sense:

http://www.reformation.org/nuclear-tsunamis.html

TPOG

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 09:51 | Link to Comment Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I actually read that link yesterday.  15 minutes of my life I will never get back.  Typing all that bullshit, did Jim Stone forget the video footage of people toppling over in the street from the shaking?  Did Mossad cause Tokyo to shake and then light off an explosive in the skyscraper in Odaiba, leaving it flaming for the world cameras?  These buildings are not made out of adobe for God's sake.  They're not going to crumble like f'ing Pakistan. This theory is literally the stupidest Goddamn thing I've ever heard.  They make Hollow Earth theorists and "Reptilian" xenobiologists look positively scholastic.

Sun, 06/05/2011 - 11:45 | Link to Comment That Peak Oil Guy
That Peak Oil Guy's picture

I know your feeling, but it looks like the dude has presented some actual data that must be refuted by other data rather than mere hyperbole.  Otherwise there may be some kernel of truth in there that we miss.  This is four historic events wrapped in one; a historic earthquake, a historic tsunami, a historic nuclear accident, and a historic economic tragedy.  I think we can afford to think critically outside the box during our early analysis of it.

Can we answer the following questions?

1. Is there indeed data showing that the earthquake was of much smaller magnitude than 9.1?  If so then why the discrepancy?  Did seismic reporting agencies significantly underestimate the magnitude and then change it later?  If so then what were the reasoning and activities behind these adjustments?

2. Did the radiation signature detected after the earthquake and before the tsunami come conclusively from Fukushima?

3. Is there data that can point to the Fukushima reactor control systems being infected by Stuxnet?

4. What's up with the big-ass camera the Israeli company installed?  Why is it so bulky?

5. Is there evidence of a nuclear explosion at reactor 3?  If so then is there data that points to the source of the explosion?

One big problem.  Can we trust TEPCO released data and statements?  I already think we know we cannot.  If not then how do we get data we can trust?  TEPCO statements and data must be suspect.  Incomplete and poor data from authorities leads to a lack of trust and a lack of trust begets speculation and conspiracy theories.

TPOG

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:16 | Link to Comment Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

"But you are putting water in the top and it's running out the bottom and it's going out through cracks in the containment, after touching directly uranium and plutonium and cesium and strontium and is carrying all those radioactive isotopes out as liquids and gases into the environment."

The more water they poured on this mess, the bigger the problem going forward in time.  How will the Japanese resolve the sea water contamination problem?

Kind of like the Fed pouring billions on our economy after the meldown in 2008.

 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Alcoholic Nativ...
Alcoholic Native American's picture

2008?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:24 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

It's Japanese seawater untill it drifts into international waters.

 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:07 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Krugman says more liquidity!

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:27 | Link to Comment djsmps
djsmps's picture

James Altucher's take on it:

Fact: Success. this is an amazing success for nuclear technology. We had a 9.0 magnitude earthquake AND a tsunami and it turns out that nobody will die from nuclear radiation, despite the mass devastation caused by these natural disasters.

It’s a scam. The pundits need something to talk about. The media needs something to make you panic and scared. The larger institutional investors need mom and pop to sell their retirement portfolio to them at cheap prices. So they all scare you to save their own lives and businesses. When we were all kids, “nuclear” meant something horrible and frightful. There was a big red button that could be pressed and maniacs seemed to be at the helm on both sides. That was scary. But that fear is long over.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:34 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

What he means' to say is that "nobody that will die from cancer can prove it came from Fukushima."

Notice, once again, how those that downplay this situation never, ever address internal contamination, but only external radiation.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:51 | Link to Comment I_ate_the_crow
I_ate_the_crow's picture

Exactly. Plausible deniability everywhere outside Japan with a media blackout, no matter what the fallout is, because everyone knows someone who has/had cancer already. All to protect the economy. Inexcusable and truly evil.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 08:30 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9_6xlfP9mXQ&feature=related

i love these old video docs about the nuclear testing in the states and bikini.

These doctors and generals give the absolute impression that what I say is the truth. LOL.

We are not the first generation of sheeple.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 14:07 | Link to Comment Astrolabe
Astrolabe's picture

"It’s a scam. The pundits need something to talk about. The media needs something to make you panic and scared."

but that's just it - this is exactly what is NOT happening. there is very little coverage of this in the media. and yet it is EXACTLY the sort of thing you would expect to be mined for ratings. there is a media driven fear industry. where is it in this case? isn't the unseen, unheard, stealth nature of raditation tailor made for fear mongering?

why ISN'T this natural fear being exploited by the media?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:19 | Link to Comment InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

dup

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:18 | Link to Comment InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

"I have said it's worse than Chernobyl and I’ll stand by that"

ditto. I also stand by the statement that there will be a new unit of measure created just for this tragedy. It will be the "Ch" which equates to the entire hot particle release from Chernobyl. Fukishima will easily be 2 Ch and could reach 4-5 Ch.

From a biological standpoint, Japan as a culture and sovereign nation is on track for extinction within a generation or two.

Yes, it's really that bad.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:24 | Link to Comment serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

You think this "extinction" will just be limited to Japan?

Interesting. (from a psychological perspective)

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

cut the absurd, hyperbolic horseshit

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:18 | Link to Comment UncleFurker
UncleFurker's picture

As this moment, if I load up http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/nu/f1-np/camera/index-e.html (live cam) and wait until a minute or so of video has loaded and then use the slider control to go backward and forwards time-wise, I can clearly see radioactive steam escaping from the left hand edge of reactor 2 building and from the middle of reactor 3 (watch the bottom part of the tower that stands behind it in the shot to see the steam).


Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:48 | Link to Comment majia
majia's picture

I concur fully with Uncle Furker. I've been watching the video cam off and on for days and there have been very large releases of smoke or steam from multiple locations over the last 2 days. http://www.tepco.co.jp/nu/f1-np/camera/index-j.html

Iodine levels suggest that re-criticality continues. The iodine chart http://www.bfs.de/de/ion/imis/ctbto_aktivitaetskonzentrationen_jod.gif showed increased iodine on May 23 and 27.

Thus, the situation at the plant remains critically unstable. Contaminated water is accumulating on site in record amounts, threatening water tables and the ocean.

TEPCO says contaminated water may overflow http://www3.nhk.or.jp/daily/english/03_31.html

"Tokyo Electric Power Company says that, in a worst case scenario, highly radioactive water may overflow from the Fukushima Daiichi nuclear plant as early as June 20th. The company is set to start operating filters for highly radioactive water from June 15th. However, it warns that if the filtering does not go to plan, highly radioactive water may overflow from a tunnel at the Number 2 reactor.

"TEPCO says that by May 31st, 105,100 tons of waste water had accumulated. It contains an estimated 720,000 terabecquerels of radioactive substances. Tera stands for one trillion."


Additionally, radioactive particles are continuing to spread and accumulate everywhere. The radiation levels in southern California and Arizona are, according to the EPA’s radnet, high right now as compared to normal levels. Beta for Riverside is 91. LA, Bakersfield, Fresno, and Anaheim are “under review,” which has be come code for “too high to report.”

Phoenix has been around 60-70 for days, which is about 3 times our normal background radiation levels (based on my records for since mid-March).

We will no doubt see a concerted effort by nuclear industry agents and government to shape public opinion so as to avoid concerns about food safety in the wake of one of the worst environmental disaster in human history See. The Explosion of Nukespeak by Karl Grossman http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/04/11-2

also


The great nuclear silence

http://www.executive-magazine.com/getarticle.php?article=14308

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:20 | Link to Comment serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Everything is fine. Don't panic. There will be no long-term consequences for the planet.

</normalcybias>

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:06 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Does that mean Conspiracy Theorists have an Abnormalcy Bias?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:23 | Link to Comment LoneStarHog
LoneStarHog's picture

Would someone please tell this fear-mongering Nuclear Engineer to read The Market Ticker.  Arnie will learn that the crisis ended in March, just after it began.  All was declared well by Mr. Kool-Aid (a.k.a. The Omniscient One).

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:30 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i happened to be listening to ( i love mao and lennin ) jim cramer earlier in the week and he was talking about how to profit from the fukushima bottom. if you listened to him, he was saying that the worst is over and the rebuilding will begin.  rebuilding?  how can you rebuild if you cannot live there?  how can workers work, if they cannot go near the area? 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:42 | Link to Comment serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Cramer is a comedian, an actor, and a bad one at that. Being a well-paid establishment shill for the elite, he thinks that he will have a spot in one of the lifeboats when this all goes down. All of his millions will not even buy him a deck chair...as the band plays on.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:19 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

what pisses me off is that this whole episode is messing up the japanese green tea exports. damn i hate that.........no telling what this will mean when it comes to holistic medicine and kampo.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:05 | Link to Comment UncleFurker
UncleFurker's picture

Someone should rent out a house just on the edge of the exclusion zone and give Cramer and his family air tickets and see if they're willing to live there for a month.

 

I suspect not.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 08:34 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

I think Jim Cramer is a "bottom" feeder

LMFAO

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:58 | Link to Comment linrom
linrom's picture

Maybe Karl can go scuba dive over there! While he's over there he can also euthanize some eighty year old Japanese women--save money for the younger generation( it's for the children you know.)

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:29 | Link to Comment Texas Ginslinger
Texas Ginslinger's picture

Video pictures of Units 1 to 4 at Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power station are available.

Windows Media

* Expect a 30 second time lag in the system delivery of the picture due to its communication path.

* Images may be unclear under conditions of strong backlight, bad weather and nighttime darkness.

* The service will be suspended during maintenance of equipment or other trouble.

 

Other trouble...I like that...

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:40 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

is it true , building 4 was not even being used before this happened?

http://nextbigfuture.com/2011/04/did-steam-geyser-destroy-fukushima-4.html

  also, isn't it true, that these buildings were built like tanks and if so, then was a hydrogen explosion at 3 mile island but it did not blow up the massive containment vessel much less the top of the building.

http://library.thinkquest.org/17940/texts/nuclear_disasters/nuclear_disa...

i say again. what the hell is going on with this bullshit story we are being fed by tepco and the japanese government?

 

 

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 01:26 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Well 1/10th of the explosion was a hydrogen explosion so just ignore the couple pounds of nuclear fuel that went boom as wll.

Yes these buildings are built like tanks. You need bunker buster bombs to do anything but peel off layers of them.

It takes 8 aircrafts full payload to do this to one of them

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Orchard

It probably took 3 or 4 mavericks to open it up enough to make it actually bombable and destroyable. And that thing is probably half as strong as one of the fukishima plants.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 08:40 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

HPD

Not wanting to upset your day but I have found that leading into a question with "Isn't it true..." expecially in this day and age can be seen as a sign of gulibility. Be careful someone does not take advantage of you.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:35 | Link to Comment Rob Jones
Rob Jones's picture

The thing that amazes me is that, having seen what happened in Fukushima, there doesn't seem to be any effort to put in safeguards on US reactors. We have clearly seen that the cooling pools containing spent fuel rods are not well protected and can potentially cause major problems. But there is STILL no plan deal with this in the US.

The Japanese were lucky in that prevailing winds tended to blow a lot of the Fukushima radiation out into the Pacific and away from the Japanese mainland. But California has two nuclear power plants operating near earthquake faults, near the Pacific ocean, and near major population centers. If one of these went up, the prevailing winds might not be anywhere near as kind. They would tend to blow the radiation east into the desert, but Los Angeles, Orange County, and San Diego might also be vulnerable. I really think these reactors should be closed.

Also, I understand that Illinois has a bunch of reactors. Although these might not be at risk from earthquakes and tsunamis, all of the US reactors are at risk from terrorist attacks. Suppose terrorists managed to blow up the cooling pumps for one of these reactors. Could it result in Chicago becoming a radioactive wasteland?

It seems amazing to me that people watch all these problems in other countries and simply assume that they cannot happen here. We watch the slow-motion collapse in Greece and other countries, but US Treasury rates don't even budge, even though we are doing basically the same things that Greece and those other countries were doing.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:42 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

just remember stuxnet is still out there . our day is coming and soon.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:44 | Link to Comment serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

+1 USB flash drive

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:24 | Link to Comment MrFriskles
MrFriskles's picture

Stuxnet was paid for by Dubya, scripted by US gov't and tested in Israel. So, its not likely not gunna happen like that per se. Plus Stux was for ruining enrichment centrifuges, not pushing reactors into criticality. Can't take the oil if you cant pump it out!

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:49 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Don't forget the El Nino/La Nina winds in Cali. If the right reactor went, those winds could probably contaminate a large part of the West Coast.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:35 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

Meltdown.

They call it that for good reason. Dense material at extreme temperatures melt down, not up. They end up at the bottom of the nuclear plant and melt through everything man-made and just keep on going. Since the material is denser than anything they'll ever encounter there's nothing to stop them.

This is really sick. The coverup endangered lives and was a criminal act that let people profit off the slow release of catastophic news.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

It continues to endanger lives.  There are children nearby that the government is still having attend school.  Their advice?  Wear long sleeves.  No shit.

 

http://enenews.com/govt-answer-protecting-children-fukushima-radioactive-fallout-wear-long-sleeved-shirts-school

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:11 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Kids in Detroit are told to wear long sleeves so as not to show off their needle tracks.

Ozzy ozboren fer preshunnnnthhdd. 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:22 | Link to Comment TomGa
TomGa's picture

It hits the friggin' water table and "boom" - a huge steam explosion kicks loads of radionuclides sky high - and the water table is poisoned.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:42 | Link to Comment PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

What a worry wart this guy is. The Japanese PM already said, "it's only a tiny leak."

Even Wall Street said, "it's very bullish for Japan's GDP."

Hey, who am I to argue with these geniuses?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:15 | Link to Comment andybev01
andybev01's picture

"It's just a flesh wound!"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKhEw7nD9C4

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 22:09 | Link to Comment Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Have at you!

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:42 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Looks like I'll win the race to get my hoop house up before one of those suckers blow sky-high, filling the skies of the northern hemisphere with cesium and whatnot. Using cheap 6 mil plastic, PVC pipe, and some rebar can get you a nice size structure for a few hundred dollars.

Quite the bargain, I'd say, because uncontaminated food sources are priceless.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:46 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

fukushima 4 ladies and gentlemen. fukushima 4 .........is the smoking gun on all of this. like building 7 at the wtc.......if fukushima 4 blew up after the tidal wave hit, why did it blow up. it was not in use, nor did it have any nuclear fuel in it. so a hydrogen explosion cannot simply explain this away. what this means ladies and gentlemen is  that fukushima 4 had a bomb in it that blew the building up. if this is so, and is sure looks like it, then does that mean the other reactor buildings had bombs in them as well?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:54 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Are you being serious?  Because your facts are not correct.  The spent fuel pool of Reactor 4 was chock full of spent fuel rods, in fact they were re-racked to get more in there than they are supposed to.  

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:15 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

keep your shirt on redpill. relax ........i got it.........

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:17 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Sorry, there winds up being such an odd combo of people that come to fight club that you never quite know for sure...

 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 17:59 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Building 4 (like the rest of the buildings) housed a spent fuel pool that just happened to have freshly removed fuel from its reactor in it (as well as 1000s of other fuel rods). Once the pumps quit working, the pool heated up until it boiled off, partially exposing the fuel rods to air, which caught fire, releasing gases, causing the explosion.

My guess is that they failed to pay attention to it at first, as they were focusing on the reactors being shutdown at the time, not realizing the spent pool had problems.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:07 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

But the third building to explode - building 4 - had no nuclear fuel in its reactor.

The cause of its demise was listed as a hydrogen explosion, but it’s become apparent that its fuel pool never went dry, so there would not have been a source of hydrogen. So what made it blow up?........

the above comes from the link i provided.....i am sure futher research can verify this info. again, if there was no nuclear material in it, then why did it blow up? when someone says there was no nulcear fuel in it, does that mean that there was no reactor core and also there were no spent fuel rods in storage in that building?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:14 | Link to Comment Herne the Hunter
Herne the Hunter's picture

Water was supposedly leaking from the fuel pool, causing a net water drain (water was being added for cooling purposes). Which (to me) indicates that the spent fuel rods were heating up, to such a temp that water turned into gaseous H2, causing the explosion. 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:12 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

http://bimchat.wordpress.com/2011/03/15/analysis-of-no-4-fukushima-react...

ok , my bad, scratch my thesis. so it is as you said, storage racks were in the building. so back to plan a..........

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 00:35 | Link to Comment Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

Almost correct ... Hot zircromium cladding of the fuel rods reacts with water/steam to produce massive quantities of hydrogen and oxygen as the water molecules are physically broken. No burning of the fuel rods is involved. When the hydrogen recombined with oxygen in a closed space, there was a tremendous explosion.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:10 | Link to Comment Herne the Hunter
Herne the Hunter's picture

At approximately 06:00 JST on 15 March, an explosion damaged the 4th floor rooftop area of the Unit 4 reactor as well as part of the adjacent Unit 3.[228][229] The explosion is thought to be caused by the ignition of hydrogen that had accumulated near the spent fuel pond, the hydrogen was initially thought to have come from the stored fuel rods, but later, TEPCO believed the hydrogen came from Unit 3.[230] Later reports from the US Nuclear Regulatory Commission speculated that fuel could have been ejected from the Unit 4 spent fuel pond during this explosion.[231]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fukushima_I_nuclear_accidents#Explosion_4

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:14 | Link to Comment High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

ok , playing the devil's advocate here on a friday, is a hydrogen explosion in and of itself enough to blow this building up?  after all, as reported, there were two of these explosions at 3 mile island but the roof and the vessel remained intact, no?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:26 | Link to Comment Herne the Hunter
Herne the Hunter's picture

Yes, but not all nuclear plants are alike. It depends on how much H2 is released. Possibly  at Three Mile Island this was a lower amount, but that's speculation from my side.

Also, 3 Mile Island explosion resulted from H2 leaking from reactor core, Building 4 explosion was from the spent fuel pool. So different situations / different outcomes I'd say.

 

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 08:55 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y7S_XWuKpHc

I can see your rationalization of the prospect to get rid of something that may become an inconvenience.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:01 | Link to Comment SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture

Natural ways to protect our loved ones from this devastating radiation:
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2011/04/long-term-effects-of-low-level...

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:05 | Link to Comment onarga74
onarga74's picture

This was released about a week after the incident began.  It is beyond comprehension that no news org has run with this.  I've sent it to CNN about 7 times.  But then again CNN isnt about news. It's panels, pundits, and panties. (oh and John Kings white board).  The guy looked like an idiot walking around in the Mississippi flood plains with waders on.  Where's Walter?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-23/fukushima-engineer-says-he-cove...

 

 

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 08:59 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

Walters dead

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:20 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

No amount of radiation is safe. Ever.

2 words: Ballast water.

Not only is Japan and the west coast of the US and Canada a dead zone. Anywhere the Japanese ships empty their ballast water also dies.

Its not the fish nor the tides not even the wind that will cut human lifespan by half.  Its accepting that people are trees and can't move. People are weaker then plants but they can think (or should) and move. 

Sooner or later the radiation will fill the world nothing will be safe to eat, drink or bath in.

Its a vary small little rock, like "The little prince" if you piss in the water you get to drink it.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:36 | Link to Comment serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Careful. You may be going a little too far with your hyperbole.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:00 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Like Carl Sagan?

What appears uncommon in the universe is common.

Radiation is not ever safe, nuclear radiation is like winding up toys. It's only in some vary rare places does nature dare to wined up her toys.

Mercury kills on contact nerve cells; and radiation kills or mutates all cells. Cells die yes but they also under go changes when stressed. Radiation is that unnatural stress.

30years- 10,000 years is not hyperbole its real. Wishing is not going to stop the effect.

PS: anyone who wants to play fight club with me regarding science better get their helmet on.

:P Radiation's is baaaad. Baaad.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:08 | Link to Comment serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

I'm actually in total agreement with you. This is MUCH worse than even Arnie Gundersen is suggesting.

Like I mentioned in a previous post on another thread, the genetic mutations within the global ecosystem will quite possibly qualify as an ELE for planet Earth, as mutated cells tend to die off at a more rapid rate than normal cells.

I've learned that it's best not to frighten the children amongst us with these kinds of predictions. Like I said...hyperbole.

 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:26 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

I will disagree with you on ELE. 2.5 billion years and almost as long as just rock.

:)

You can't frighten ingnorance. If you could there would be no music or poetry.

To say nothing of anything that was brutalized like Laser Light Amplification by Stimulated Emission of Radiation. ( i messed that phase up badly) "whats it good for"; "somthing not yet invented"

- I forget the quote. But you can Google it :P

 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:29 | Link to Comment serotonindumptruck
serotonindumptruck's picture

Fair enough.

Let's just hope that there are no more massive seismic events and subsequent nuclear meltdown.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:44 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Would it matter? What is done is done and can not be undone.

Filter your water, dont eat anything grown after march and move as far southeast as you can. You are not a tree please don't act as one.

I'm moveing and im from the high northeast. You can't stay safe in the northern hemisphere. Unless you would like to shave 30-40years off of your and your childrens lifespan?

No way to stop radioactive gases from getting into everything.

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 09:04 | Link to Comment onthesquare
onthesquare's picture

now you are scaring me.

but wait. If this is going to shorten our life expectancy then how come the insurance underwritters have not started in on the game. Payouts are going to increase as life expectancy decreases, especially on term plans.

what about that mr smarty pants?

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:51 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

"the west coast of the US ........ a dead zone"

Hmmmmmm..no great loss for me...

Sat, 06/04/2011 - 14:52 | Link to Comment trav7777
trav7777's picture

don't ever fly on a plane or eat a banana.  God forbid a brazil nut or be exposed to the sun.

JFC, will you hysterics please STFU.

We live on a rock bombarded CONSTANTLY by this big, bright thermonuclear fireball in the sky.  Yes, it spits out copious amounts of RADIATION.  You are exposed to it constantly.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:12 | Link to Comment Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

No, The top half of the number #3 reactor vessel is "GONE"....................You don't have to be a genius to see it for yourself.

Here is the blueprint of the number #3 reactor

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-_Db5_kUdcBU/TdaVtaCnlWI/AAAAAAAAAUU/b_mJdFksAms/s1600/reactorblueprint.jpg

and then here is the latest photograph of the number #3 reactor

http://www.tepco.co.jp/en/news/110311/images/110527_3.jpg

Now you tell me what is wrong with number #3  ?

Note: The top of those concrete columns "is" where the service floor should be.

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 18:56 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

Coming soon:

Glow in the Dark Soylent Green Sushi (patent pending) 

 

Fri, 06/03/2011 - 19:10 | Link to Comment intric8
intric8's picture

Just a few pinchfulls of soil are reading very high, and it is in counts per second, not minute.

http://www.falloutphilippines.blogspot.com/

 

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