This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Assessing The Fukushima Radiation Danger "Near And Far"

Tyler Durden's picture


The NYT has compiled a useful visual summary of the current assessment of the Fukushima radiation, distributed by either air, soil, water and food,  compiled through the work of the International Atomic Energy Agency and others. The observable trade off is that while the impact of inland radiation has so far been muted courtesy of favorable wind direction and modest rainfall, the actual concentration of radioactivity in the sea and groundwater is rising at an exponential pace. How long before conventional wisdom realizes that radiation tens of thousands of times above normal contaminating the sea is very bad, while one day of northeastern winds will set off every seismic counter in Tokyo?


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:06 | 1128591 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

The Bernank sees no inflated danger.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:38 | 1128778 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

British Columbia and the northwest US should have been evacuated days ago.

It will only get worse. Expect millions of Joe Sixpacks to frantically make a run for the Mexican border as they realize their governments have deliberately marked them for extintion.


Real estate prices in Soweto are about to skyrocket any minute now.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:13 | 1128931 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

Canadians don't run from anything, they turn around and kick some ass.We;re kind of like the Spartans in "The 300", except we are the kindest people on the planet, Till you mess with our beer then we go Spartan and chuck you down a mineshaft.

That being said,

I notice that there is 1 millionth amount of radiation in BC rainwater required to cause cancer. Do the dopes around the world realize that we Canadians drink a million bottles of beer a month. That means the average BC'er  has a month to party.

Actually the best weed on the planet is grown in BC, Sheet!. Best order it while I can

G' Day eh




Sun, 04/03/2011 - 05:42 | 1129450 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

Thats a big call buddy - you should visit down under....

speaking of that - my usual posts at the weekend are mashed and blithering but i'm working this one so am coherent.

here is a coherent contribution on 'to big to fail' TEPCO style.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 12:58 | 1129795 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

So you feel safe at the hands of nukular experts?

What would you do if you found out those multi Ph.D. bigshots are now trying to fix the damaged nuclear reactors with...DIAPERS, SAWDUST and NEWSPAPER???  When that fails too, will you feel safe when they next attempt to seal the cracked container with DUCT TAPE??


Engineers pinned their hopes on chemicals, sawdust and shredded newspaper to stop highly radioactive water pouring into the ocean from Japan's tsunami-ravaged nuclear plant Sunday as officials said it will take several months to bring the crisis under control, the first time they have provided a timetable.

Concrete already failed to stop the tainted water spewing from a crack in a maintenance pit, and the new mixture did not appear to be working either, but engineers said they were not abandoning it.




Engineers tried to seal the crack with concrete Saturday, but that effort failed.

So on Sunday they went farther up the system and injected sawdust, three garbage bags of shredded newspaper and a polymer — similar to one used to absorb liquid in diapers — that can expand to 50 times its normal size when combined with water.


What happens when you pour a substance that expands 50 times it's normal size into a tight crevice?  Well, the answer is...YOU BUST OPEN WIDE THE CRACK!


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 16:54 | 1130363 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

The "pit" is basically a big maintenance manhole 6' x 6' x 12' with an access hatch above it. They could fill the damn thing to the brim with 15 yds of concrete, but nobody wanted to get anywhere near it (+1000mSv). So they've been shooting concrete slurry and junk down a pipe at it, from 60' away. 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 08:02 | 1129524 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

ok...article lacks a bit of accuracy....I-131 was found in the rain in Pa. to be 33 times safe levels, containing 40-100 picocuries per liter

therefore, its on the ground,the grass, and thats why milk in York Pa tested positive for I-131



both versions of 'on the beach' were on yesterday, and 'K-19 the widowmaker'

i think they are trying to tell us something

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:15 | 1128942 espirit
espirit's picture

The disaster of Chernobyl 28 years later. The effects of Iodine-131 and Caesium-137 on life.

Many people seem to believe that distance is a factor, and time is on their side. Be wary.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:51 | 1129098 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

That's a bit much.  Background radiation just from living in Colorado is worse than what BC and WA are getting.  Should we have never allowed anyone to ever move into Colorado?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 08:05 | 1129527 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

no I-131, C-137,Xenon-133 in background radiation


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 05:14 | 1129438 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

And the TEPCO chief says he can head off nuclear problem in 15 minutes by having gov't raise the legal limits of radiation exposure.

Now *that* would be a classic bureaucratic solution.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 17:33 | 1130468 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

I think it's time we called Halburton.

Fuck, they likely have bought an atomic meltdown company named Rods & Tods a few months before the accident.

When the worlds on fire, who you gonna call? Hal Burton!


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:09 | 1128595 Dr_Dazed
Dr_Dazed's picture

If the radiation levels are really rising at "an exponential rate" then in 100 days or so the solar system becomes a binary star system right?  No more nighttime for Mercury and Venus.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:32 | 1128649 tim73
tim73's picture

No, Godzilla will soon beat the crap out of those bad Fukushima plants.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:45 | 1128881 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Godzilla and Mothra will come to feed...

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:24 | 1128958 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Mmmmm...Godzilla's favorite...roasted long pig.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 05:07 | 1129433 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

That was funny. And I didn't pop you. And the person that did is on my DOO Doo list! I like MS Creant!~

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 18:56 | 1130603 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:12 | 1128597 Selah
Selah's picture


the world shuts its eye

mankind's bissful ignorance

too cheap to meter


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:37 | 1128662 HankPaulson
HankPaulson's picture

well done! :)

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:03 | 1128711 Selah
Selah's picture


Thank you!

It's my second attempt at haiku "in real time". It's hard to reply to a ZH post and come up with an on-topic haiku in just a few minutes! I posted one over on WB7's that wasn't quite as good, but I'll add this since someone likes it.


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 10:38 | 1129654 BloodPigOnFeces
BloodPigOnFeces's picture

from the mouth of babes

a child's pink chewing gums

now devoid of teeth

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:11 | 1128598 trav7777
trav7777's picture

We need to have isotope analysis...CPM won't tell us jack; have to know the energy of the particles or gammas

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:16 | 1128617 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Just the normal shit...plutonium, strontium, caesium. They're safe though, any day now Obama's going to Fukushima to demonstrate how safe their shrimp is.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:17 | 1128737 The Profit Prophet
The Profit Prophet's picture

So is everything OK until we get an isotope analysis Trav?  If I'm standing in a 10,000 CPM zone, should I wait for the isotope analysis before I leave?

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:59 | 1128802 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Your right. But so far its all we got. If you could ask NASA to turn a sat or 2 twards Japan that would be swell. :)

Your a fluffy little hedgehog as long as you dont bite.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:39 | 1128869 jomama
jomama's picture

reading comments from someone who can't spell 'you're' burns my eyeballs.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 05:47 | 1129453 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You spin me well. Keep the termoil up. (sp) intended.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:59 | 1128803 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Trav: So besides being the teleprompter in chief's caddyboy, you are now also his nukular expert spokesperson?  Do us all a favour and just stick to carrying around his golfclubs, holding his cigar, and fetching his stray golfballs while keeping your stinking piehole shut.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 05:10 | 1129434 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I know in some weird way you care. Short wave Lenghts are the most damaging.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:12 | 1128600 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

And the data for their beautiful visual report comes from what source? .gov you say?

The Jew York Times makes me feels so safe.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:33 | 1128971 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Judge Mental,

Biting the race bait is for suckers, keeps us all at each other's throats. Divide and conk-her.

Fun act ya got there though, gotta give you that. You stay in character pretty well.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 23:53 | 1129165 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture
by MsCreant
on Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:33


Judge Mental,

Biting the race bait is for suckers, keeps us all at each other's throats. Divide and conk-her.

Fun act ya got there though, gotta give you that. You stay in character pretty well.

props the point and well stated................

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 05:49 | 1129456 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You test my Where with all. I will never, nor have I ever given you a negative remark. I respect your input.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:18 | 1128616 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

"...will set off every seismic counter in Tokyo"


ZH means geiger counter.


Feel free to delete this whenever, TD.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:23 | 1128629 Kitler
Kitler's picture

Seismic counter.

Measures the seismic vibrations of the stampeding feet of those attempting to leave.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:23 | 1128630 Herman Strandsc...
Herman Strandschnecke's picture

If folk all started stamping their feet and bashing their desks it could be seismic and incidentally, the earthquakes are migrating south and inland according to USGS worldwide earthquake notices;

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:28 | 1128760 franzpick
franzpick's picture

And we're in another EQ window (around tomorrow's new moon) until next Friday or so; when you become aware of the 1-2 monthly windows around new/full moons, perigees, 6' plus west coast tides and solar CMEs, the Tepco temporizing looks even worse.


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:28 | 1128638 tim73
tim73's picture

ZH just ruined a good story by telling the truth. Why did you do that?! Headless "we are all gonna die!" chickens here are not going to like this!

Well, there is always the next "we are all gonna die!"-accident.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:40 | 1128668 Monetative Easing
Monetative Easing's picture

Who are all these chickens you speak of?   I haven't seen many around these parts who claim that the world is ending as a result of Fukushima.

  And since you are the expert over here and TOD, are you clearly stating that this situation is entirely under control?  Are you employed in any way by nuclear energy interests?

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:08 | 1128718 tim73
tim73's picture

Even googling few pages about radiation and radioactivity would tell you most of the stuff written here and in many other blogs are just overhyped scaremongering. People today just seem to be here so frigging lazy despite all that information being available. 

I wonder what they would do in real emergency near home. Probably go under the bed with their "precious" iPad and starting sucking their thumbs.  

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:23 | 1128747 Monetative Easing
Monetative Easing's picture

What you say is true.  However, if I understand you correctly based on posts both here and TOD, you feel as if TEPCO et al have this situation under control, correct?  Your view is that beyond Fukushima, there is nothing to worry about, right?  People in Tokyo should just go about their business.  Is that your view?

 And again, are you employed or do you derive pay from the nuclear energy industry? 

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:35 | 1130068 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

All that information available...

What, exactly, "information"

Bureaucratic bullshit and ass covering?


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:09 | 1128819 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Cancer in mice.

Well it seems that i-131 can cause cancer. Imagine that.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:21 | 1129289 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

Bet the fish and other marine life that inhabit the ocean near Fuk-shima are not feeling quite so smug as thee.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:34 | 1128652 Kitler
Kitler's picture


I was hoping the post was April 1st.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:19 | 1128745 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

And in British Columbia it's far worse.


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:36 | 1128858 Homey Da Clown
Homey Da Clown's picture

And the numbers keep rising

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:56 | 1129246 notsomuch
notsomuch's picture

This map froze on 3/15/11, looks comparable to me.


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:37 | 1130072 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

In B.C. facts have never mattered.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:31 | 1128765 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Well, it was from Berkeley, and they've been attracting strange particles since the sixties.  Before we panic, let's wait for a report from some real scientists.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 08:41 | 1129557 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Right, the only people who know what they're talking about are the ones employed by the nuclear industry.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:27 | 1128845 usefuloutput
usefuloutput's picture

There are still restrictions in place in some UK farms because of Chernobyl.

Hopefully the US won't get the same problem.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 09:34 | 1129597 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

I was very doubtful about this, so had a look, and what do you know...

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:40 | 1129080 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

Thank you for posting that. One certainly doesn't see it here in the West on the MSM. Good old ZH.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 04:57 | 1129426 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You captured a job? Thanks for the link.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:36 | 1128655 max2205
max2205's picture


Lol. How'd you get behind the paywall?

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:39 | 1128660 Drag Racer
Drag Racer's picture

update to water samples south of reactors

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:40 | 1128667 99er
99er's picture

Happiest place on Earth?

Anaheim now has highest readings in the Lower 48. Find your city here:


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:54 | 1128695 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Good link, 99r. Thanks. There are some seriously freaked out people in the comments section.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:12 | 1128731 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Not the people in Virginia

0 reading

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:45 | 1128682 cossack55
cossack55's picture

I'm watching 2012 and every half hour flipping on ZH and reading these articles and posts.  Surreal doesn't even cover it.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:56 | 1128698 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

I haven't seen much discussion of this, but the Japanese Current flows northward along the East coast of Japan, thence north and east across the Gulf of Alaska and down the West Coast of Canada and the US. The Japanese Current is very powerful, fully capable of keeping a great deal of the radioactive material being released into the sea from Fukushima in suspension, rather than it settling to the ocean floor, for the entire journey to the West Coast of the US. There is absolutely nothing that can stop this process - it is already underway. The only question is how much radioactive material will be released into the sea, and for how long. Sorry surfer dudes - surf's not going to be up for much longer.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 18:58 | 1128705 tim73
tim73's picture

Headless chicken #2993021.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:47 | 1128791 avonaltendorf
avonaltendorf's picture

Stop that.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 08:44 | 1129560 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Nuclear industry shill # 458

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:01 | 1128707 Herman Strandsc...
Herman Strandschnecke's picture

Thank goodness they didn't have sail boats in ww2.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:54 | 1129010 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Just little bombs on paper balloons....

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 11:44 | 1129735 davepowers
davepowers's picture

ah the japanese Current.

remind me what politician Dr. Hunter S. Thompson said should be sent out on the Japanese Current. Was it Hubert H. Humphrey? He hated Hubert H. Humphrey.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:02 | 1128709 tahoebumsmith
tahoebumsmith's picture

I wonder how all of California's produce will be after another few months of this? We are getting dosed more then they are leading us to believe. The meters keep going up everyday and nobody is talking about it. Just remember that Obama made it very clear that we wouldn't be affected...

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:10 | 1128722 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Only reason we need to defund another useless government agency.


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:24 | 1128752 breezer1
breezer1's picture

funny how the soil is contaminated almost all around tokyo but not tokyo???

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 21:26 | 1130956 ShinjukuBaby
ShinjukuBaby's picture

There is no soil in Tokyo.

No, actually they have found radioactive vegetables from certain parts of Tokyo (the western part where they do have some farming.)

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:16 | 1128734 MSimon
MSimon's picture



will set off every seismic counter in Tokyo?


Shouldn't that be "radiation" or "Geiger".

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:24 | 1128753 gall batter
gall batter's picture

I turned on TV "news", just to see.  The anchor and "expert" were talking about two students who'd had sex on top of a building at a California university.  Hopeless.    

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:25 | 1128756 Herman Strandsc...
Herman Strandschnecke's picture

People are driven to do desparate things at a time like this.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:39 | 1128781 franzpick
franzpick's picture

Study was done years ago asking people what their one wish would be if told the world was ending in a week. Answer: their favorite movie star, but not on the roof.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:47 | 1128883 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Love in the time of Fukushima.

You can hug your baby with nuclear arms!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:03 | 1129256 davepowers
davepowers's picture

if they had sex on top of a building does that mean they had unprotected sex?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:33 | 1129303 SheHunter
SheHunter's picture

You said allot right there GB.  Last Thurs eve at prime news time and just to reinforce my disdain for media I switched through the favored MSM news shows...I saw dogs being cute and celebrities showing skin and slick 5 second clips of this and that politician.  MSM assuring the average viewer maintains their current stat of a 15 second concentration span. 

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:24 | 1128754 Judge Judy Scheinlok
Judge Judy Scheinlok's picture

Get ready, here it is. The official forcast from the Department of Atmospheric and Climate Research, The Norwegian Institute for Air Research (NILU).

April 6 Fukushima forecast shows Northwest US under threat

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:36 | 1128857 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Holy christ. Did anyone else see the cesium release anlysis that Jim did in the earlier thread today? Essentially fukishima has the potential to release the equivilent of Chernobyl an average of once every 10 days.

Thank you, Judge. Nice post.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:28 | 1128761 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Has it occurred to anybody that this may be payback ( in a cosmic sense) for Hiroshima and Nagasaki? Back at you, round eyed mothers! /sarc - kinda

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:33 | 1128769 Herman Strandsc...
Herman Strandschnecke's picture

No. I could see your point if this was a Japanese plant constructed within the USA but then they wouldn't import anymore Japanese cars or other Japanese goods ever again.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:45 | 1128882 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Not really, brother. If this were some kind of karmic retribution toward the US, why would the Karmic Wheel kill also 28000 Japanese and wipe out the northern half of their country at the same time?

Personally, I think the whole planet has been running at the far end of long odds for a long time.

For example: Yellowstone has a super-eruption about once every 600k years on average. The last one was 740k years ago. Is it karma is the sucker blows tomorrow?

Lots of examples like that exist in different places too. We are at the far end of many cycles all at once.

I'm not sure if that means anything special, unless you want to go all Gaia and say that Mother Earth is reevaluating her relationship with the human race.

Shit happens. It always has been so. We're due for lots of shit right now, imo.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:49 | 1128999 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Your opinion is correct.  We have had a long quiet easy time.  Fifty or sixty years!  And have grown fat and foolish in them. 

We let beasts steal our democracy, if they will only promise to keep our easy time going a little longer.  Esau selling his birthright to a sharp dealer for a bowl of shit.

Something wicked this way comes.


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 23:40 | 1129147 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

You shine, brother. Well said.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 23:48 | 1129154 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Hey....Lentils are not that bad!:)

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:59 | 1129249 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

Personally, I love lentils. Versatile. lol....

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:59 | 1129110 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Retribution for actually saving hundreds of thousands of japanese lives in the process compared to invading?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:11 | 1129187 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:09 | 1129189 hangemhigh
hangemhigh's picture
by Fred Hayek
on Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:59

"Retribution for actually saving hundreds of thousands of japanese lives in the process compared to invading?"


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 14:45 | 1130086 Confuchius
Confuchius's picture

We considered that; then decided it's the revenge of the Dolphins & the Whales.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:36 | 1128771 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

The bernank can stop this radiation in 15 minutes flat.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:41 | 1128784 Organic Matter
Organic Matter's picture

Well if Bernanke can't stop it, the crap running down the Potomac certainly will.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:41 | 1128786 prophet
prophet's picture

"seems likely to be contained'

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 19:59 | 1128804 Prof Gulliver
Prof Gulliver's picture

It's only "a little froth"

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:34 | 1128859 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

The power company will "buy" something that wil fix the radition and make them a lot of money. At least that's what the psychic says.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:09 | 1128820 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture
Highly Radioactive Water Leaking into Pacific Ocean
Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:07 | 1128829 franzpick
franzpick's picture

The radiation forecast for the heavy metal being moved to Fukushima is very bleak; the five 60' plus concrete cranes will all be abandoned at the site, as will the latest and largest object being sent, the 450' X 150' 'floating park' soon to be towed from Tokyo to Fukushima to hold up to 10k tons of radiated water.

Most shipping containers unloaded north of Tokyo are also being abandoned; shipping companies are requiring customers to buy the containers, as they don't want them returned to the ships, which could produce radiation check delays at subsequent ports and countries.

Within months, goog will have a Fukushima photo of a third nuclear boneyard after Chernobyl's 2, like these ships:,30.213743&spn=0.003255,0.009248&z=17

and these helicopters, trucks and cars:

I'm more concerned about CA coastal water radiation after the bluefin tuna complete this year's 3 month migration from eastern Honshu waters to the US west coast.  Be careful what you wish for: your catch of the day could be 1000 pounds of radiation trouble coming in over the gunnels.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:41 | 1128850 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

Germany’s radioactive boars a legacy of Chernobyl

It’s really sad when you have to throw out meat that is normally extraordinarily tasty

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:47 | 1128884 creviceCaress
creviceCaress's picture

looks like N.cali will have to stop spewing their swag all over the country.....damn

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 20:46 | 1128887 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

It's interesting how all the problems in the Middle East and North Africa are now resolved, hence no more news or discussion of that.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:17 | 1128927 i-dog
i-dog's picture

While I'm disappointed in TD2's use of such sloppy terms as "rising at exponential pace" and "set off every seismic counter", this NYT article is not even worthy of their well-deserved title "Toilet Paper of Record"!

The comparative readings between Fukushima and other parts of Japan take no account of the topography and are therefore either inadvertently or deliberately misleading. (Whenever the surface winds turn to a southerly or westerly direction, the mountain range that runs down the spine of Honshu will funnel radioactivity down through coastal Ibaraki, Tochigi and Chiba prefectures---and their farmlands---to Tokyo. The inset map of "most contaminated areas" is 2 weeks old and only accounts for the contamination carried NW from the initial explosions).

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:52 | 1129007 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Concur.  It's a useless exercise to use retrospective, spotty data when the accident is still occurring. 

***Overly alarmist metaphor warning--do not read if you are angry at alarmism***

It's like saying 'hey, the initial flash from the nearby thermonuclear bomb didn't blind me, everything is fine, you nitwits why are you crying?'

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:44 | 1129089 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture


Are the analytical teams in Japan taking the weekends off?...seems new info is only released on a weekday.


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 23:23 | 1129132 franzpick
franzpick's picture

I came, I saw, I concurred.. 

The bleeding edge of an accident still occuring is usually hiding in plain sight, but is obscured by, among other things, 'stability bias', false inarticulate-major-premise, corporate-gov-insider spin, and media disinfo and omission. 

The ongoing US real estate price collapse, for example, is not best shown in a lagging (Case-Shiller) 3 month moving average that excludes distressed sales, but rather in the increasing disparity between current average listing prices and the more rapidly dropping recent 3 month sale prices.  Many mid to higher priced zips in CA show recent sales averaging less than 50% of average list, while all the RE and financial folk involved do their very best to prevent public perception of ongoing lower prices and the wisdom of postponing purchases to enable buying later at lower prices.  Calculated Risk ranks very high at calling a bottom at every blip up, and almost all who accordingly bought homes in the past 3-4 years have lost part or all of their equity and would have been far ahead by postponing their hopium-inspired bottom-picking purchases.

There is similarly, hiding in plain sight, a bleeding edge to the Fukushima radiation contamination disaster, but it has also been rendered invisible by the same business and media forces that obscured 1) the reality of the GOM contamination, 2) the Wall St-Banking-World credit collapse, and 3) the ongoing residential RE price collapse.  

Comments from all who are able to see and convey aspects of the otherwise hidden yet still-enfolding nuclear accident should be respected.

Bought 30 more cans of salmon today, good thru 8-2016, and have sympathy for several Alaskan salmon fisherman bloggers today who are getting in touch with the possible loss of their generations old, lucrative family fishing business.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 23:31 | 1129139 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Interesting artical on nuclear forensics going on:

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:46 | 1129230 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Could you post an interesting extract, or a summary? Your link requires a login ... and I don't do logins (only exceptions are ZH and my bank).

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:14 | 1129272 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Something is screwy there, my friend, I got in without a was posted on Twitter. let me check and get back to you.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 02:24 | 1129329 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Just the headline will probably do it. One can usually access these stories from Google, but not from a saved bookmark (they want to track your path to them ;)

[edit] Yep ... found it, by doing a google search using your link as the search term. Title is: "From Far Labs, a Vivid Picture Emerges of Japan Crisis".

[edit2] Yep ... read it. It pretty much describes what we are forced to do here -- except we [most of us] don't have the expertise or complex computer models to assist. Many thanks, Aristarchan, for your input and sober analyses, though.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 11:21 | 1129699 Matte_Black
Matte_Black's picture

From the article:

"On March 21, Stanford University presented an invitation-only panel discussion on the Japanese crisis that featured Alan Hansen, an executive vice president of Areva NC, a unit of the company focused on the nuclear fuel cycle.

“Clearly,” he told the audience, “we’re witnessing one of the greatest disasters in modern time.”

Also, the article clearly makes the case that accurate information is being repressed by nuke community worldwide.

They dont want to scare the children - meaning the rest of us.

That pisses me off. Highly recomended reading. Ari's link took me right to it.


Sun, 04/03/2011 - 04:59 | 1129428 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Your thread caught my eye. Nice work!

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:21 | 1128947 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

The Bernank will pull one of these to save us since he is nearly godlike apparently.

Deus ex machina
Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:31 | 1128968 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

So riddle me this "stupid" question ......

If B.C., Alaska and Washington are in danger and trace amounts have been it is are you ready for it........ Why is the RADNET system not registering this increase ??

Riddle me !

I think I know the answer, but I thought I would open it up for the resident Historian and other Engineering types that float this thread.


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:37 | 1128980 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

What Is Japan's Nuclear Worst Case Scenario? (The Real News)

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:08 | 1129022 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture


Great link...............................!

That interview puts things into perspective. I would like all, including the resident Historian to pay close attention @ 8:33

The quote of the day from this video is "below the level of concern for whom" ?

Pay special attention to the cesium 137 as it mimics potassium within the environment.

It is a toss up on whom to believe, the resident Historian or an accredited scholar ?? Things that make you go hmmmmmm ?

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:48 | 1129001 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I never panicked over anything, and I'm not going to panick over this.

What I will do, for the first time in response to a singular incident, is prepare for some quite bad effects as a result of the Fukushima disaster.

This is likely going to have disastrous effects for many, many people in the world.

Things get dramatically worse at every stage with Fukushima, now Japanese executives and politicians are panicking (what does that tell you, given the Japanese 'save face' culture?), we now know TEPCO didn't completely abandon Daiichi because the Japanese Government ordered them to retain a skeleton crew there to perform Kabuki Theater for the masses (helicopter water drops and hooking blown out concrete rubble and twisted columns of steel up to ported electricity), and that radiation levels are rising dramatically due to a nuclear process which is now literally out of control (and nuclear processes that get out of control tend to get more out of control and for very long periods of time).

There are reports coming from very credible sources that they still don't have equipment that can gauge the level of radiation being emitted at FukuDaiichi because the equipment literally doesn't detect levels over a particular amount (I call this the "if it's higher than what the meter is detecting, then Fuk-u at Fukushimi").

Good luck with the entombment since they're not going to be able to cool those reactors enough to make it possible, most likely.

And then, there's that drinking water issue, where radiation simply can't be scrubbed from rainwater, seawater, freshwater, groundwater, tap water....

Governments around the world, including the U.S., are going to start raising the 'safe' levels of radiation by factors that will be staggering, because as Goebbels stated:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”
Sat, 04/02/2011 - 21:55 | 1129009 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

One day the MSM cannot be believed, the next it is a valid source for data. Which is it? Or is good data, data that supports a desired position?

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:16 | 1129040 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

My general rule of thumb, which has been rock solid in accuracy, so far, is that when the MSM reports anything positive, it's bullshit, and when they report anything negative, whether due to some sort of temporary journalistic conscience or a slip up, it's true.

Some people call me pessimistic, but I swear I'm merely a realist.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:46 | 1129091 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

I guess that is one way to look at it. I am ambivalent about them. But, non-MSM also has its own ax to grind, so I am ambivalent about them as well. The realist in me tells me that bad news and bad ouctomes are good for both, since it increases their traffic and ratings.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:38 | 1130208 Rula Lenska
Rula Lenska's picture

The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those that have not got it. --George Bernard Shaw

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:10 | 1129030 Pale Green Horse
Pale Green Horse's picture

As physics major and having had nuclear safety classes everyone needs to know that there is no safe level of man made nuclear radiation particles. It mostly is dirty radiation not just dissipating gamma radiation like you receive in an X-ray of your chest. The particles ingested depending on the amount will either cause short term or long term complications which can lead to premature death.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:15 | 1129042 HankPaulson
HankPaulson's picture

It may come as a surprise, seeing as how radiation is already good for you, but cancer is actually good for you too! Research shows that people with cancer are less likely to be overweight or obese than their "healthy" counterparts, more likely to have seen their doctor for regular check ups during the previous year, and for those with fatal cancer, the risk of death from all other diseases approaches zero, suggesting that fatal cancer has a beneficial protective effect.


I know this will be bad news to all you haters who just keep badmouthing cancer, but those are the facts.


Also, when a nuclear reactor is constructed, and when robots are deployed to clumsily dismantle its steaming remains, GDP goes up both times. What's not to like?

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:53 | 1129099 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Manbearpig (who takes a Boeing 757 even to Whole Foods) says that cancer reduces one's 'carbon footprint' and is thus good for the environment.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 08:54 | 1129568 BigJim
BigJim's picture


Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:21 | 1129050 constanceplumtree
constanceplumtree's picture

about the dead bodies that have been left in situ because of radiation concerns: can't be cremated, can't be buried.  What about all the debris in the 20km zone that now has radioactive contaminants covering them?  How can they be safely disposed of?  can't be burned, can't be recycled, can't be buried?

In Chernobyl they had an easier solution, the town of Pripyat was simply abandoned.  

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:35 | 1129059 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The U.S. is already getting its first major spikes in rainwater radiation, which is probably not an issue, nor not likely to grow more severe, as the Fukushima radiation will be brought under control soon and it burn for years (and won't grow more intense), because as we all know, rainwater doesn't fall on areas where people live, let alone the actual people there, nor does it ultimately become part of the water table.



Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:50 | 1129092 Pale Green Horse
Pale Green Horse's picture

Yes they are finding small amounts of radioactive Iodine in the soil, grass and milk of cattle. Which means it is falling in your surface water municipal supplies in those areas. But these particles have a very short half life and won't enter the water table. They will however fall out in the surface waters and their tributaries. For now if you get your water from surface reservoirs I would suggest getting a good water filter, as these particles are easily taken out. I won't name any brands, but I have a gravity flow with specs, and it will take it all out. These particles have relatively large atomic numbers. I am not a sponsor nor seller of these things, so I won't mention any brands. Do your own work. Reverse osmosis filters have many brands they are the best. I am using a gravity flow water filter myself which is sufficient and less expensive.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 07:30 | 1129502 espirit
espirit's picture

Non-radioactive water? De-Min tastes like sheet!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:58 | 1130228 Rula Lenska
Rula Lenska's picture

I131 has a relatively short half-life and may not enter the water table, but Ce137 has a 30 year half-life and will enter the water table.  Or, does only iodine precipitate out of the plume?  "Do your own work" and stop spreading half-truths and misleading by omission.

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:31 | 1129072 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Tokyo's lunch-time special:

three-eyed sashimi,

glow in the dark fukushima seaweed nori

on bed of sweet radiation-steamed rice vinaigrette

- Food-stamp cards are valid from

31 March 2011 to 19 September 24011

( Respect for the Aged Day, Sept 24011 )

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 22:39 | 1129082 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

GE - not only brings good things to life - they positively glow!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 07:02 | 1129492 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You guys are going to beat me into the turf. I bought 1000 shares of GE last thursday. Awhh crap. I know the Imelt Thing. I'm a Jack W. guy

Sat, 04/02/2011 - 23:54 | 1129162 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Don't worry folks, I am going to sit down and do some math based on assumed data and best-case outcomes and I will show you that everything is going to be ok. Or, if that gets boring, I will sit down and do some math based on assumed data and worst-case outcomes and show you all why you should bend down and kiss your sweet asses goodbye.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:15 | 1129196 Pale Green Horse
Pale Green Horse's picture

Well I wouldn't go that far, the inverse square law won't work on this one but you remind me of a funny email I got forwarded from the radiation project manager during the Apollo program who graduated in physics with my father.

A public school teacher was arrested today at John F. Kennedy International Airport as he attempted to board a flight while in possession of a ruler, a protractor, a compass, a slide-rule and a calculator. At a morning press conference, the Attorney General said he believes the man is a member of the notorious Al-Gebra movement. He did not identify the man, who has been charged by the FBI with carrying weapons of math instruction.
'Al-Gebra is a problem for us', the Attorney General said. 'They derive solutions by means and extremes, and sometimes go off on tangents in search of absolute values.' They use secret code names like 'X' and 'Y' and refer to themselves as 'unknowns', but we have determined that they belong to a common denominator of the axis of medieval with coordinates in every country. As the Greek philanderer Isosceles used to say, 'There are 3 sides to every triangle'.
When asked to comment on the arrest, President Obama said, 'If God had wanted us to have better weapons of math instruction, he would have given us more fingers and toes.' White House aides told reporters they could not recall a more intelligent or profound statement by the President -
It is believed that another Nobel Prize will follow ----

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:30 | 1129211 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Actually I will go that far, since any mathematical construct created at this stage that is not based on absolute, real, stone-cold data, and on an unerring understanding of future events, is an exercise in prognosticative masturbation. Who has real data? Who can say what events might occur to change the situation, who knows for sure what is going on in the pools and in the cores? I think everything will probably turn out a comparative sense. Do I base that on Lehman Brothers math? No, I just pulled it out of my ass, which at this point, is just as accurate a method. BTW....damn funny E-mail!

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:46 | 1129225 Pale Green Horse
Pale Green Horse's picture

damn funny E-mail!


Thanks, I thought so too. But no one really knows how bad this will be, the weather not the inverse square law can account. I would not be kissing my ass goodbye just yet, let's do what we can to protect our self, buy milk from the NE  or Midwest like Horizon organic or some other, that is what I buy. I think by the time the vegetables get to you fro CA or Mexico the 82 hour half life will take care of most of it. Buy stuff from the east coast.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:11 | 1129268 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

To be honest, milk and veggies grown here in the US do not concern me that much. Of course, I worked in the industry for years, and worked on underground testing in Nevada, and plutonium cleanup on Johnston Atoll, so maybe I have a normalcy, cell phones plastered to your skull, leaky microwave ovens, coal plants that dump thousands of tons of radioactivity in the air, nuclear plants which vent regularly, radon, solar radiation....unless something dramatic happens and I can record the data, I am not worried. Yet.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 15:54 | 1130232 Rula Lenska
Rula Lenska's picture

I worked in the industry for years, and worked on underground testing in Nevada, and plutonium cleanup on Johnston Atoll, so maybe I have a normalcy bias...

Gee, ya' think so....?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 04:54 | 1129422 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You have a new nick name. WORM-HOLE.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 07:52 | 1129519 aVian
aVian's picture

lmfao...good one

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:35 | 1129217 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

One thing I am hung up on is the transport of fission products into water vs. air.  It seems like cesium will be picked up and carried by the water operations, which sucks if you're a baby tuna but is to be welcomed by people in Japan. 

The question then becomes, where are there exposed rods?  They keep saying they can't get the cores covered in 1-3.  And all that fuming from the pools really makes me wonder.  Do you think they may all be exposed at least sometimes, or are those pools immersed?  What is the nature of the white steam--water hitting naked rods, or immersed rods interacting with the water?

I can't give in to the random walk/relativism here; a DOE official once told the Wall Street Journal that oil prices were a random walk--been outraged about it ever since.  We can keep some perspective on the situation.

Key point: air release rate of fission product going into the summer months.  How do the watering ops impact it?

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:01 | 1129253 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Difficult to say, Jim. Fission products tend to travel well in both water and air, it depends on the situation and the media created. In a rod rupture, fission products from the gap will happily remain in the cooling water (if any) in the vessel, and if a release is implemented by venting or rupture, will just as happily go that route. All that matters to me (in a relative sense) is that they manage to get some water into the cores until they can get a full flow, or some type of plan B.

All of the concrete pumping rigs that are around there pumping water are aiming for the spent fuel pools. They are trying to keep ahead of the evaporation rates, or a least close to that. I think the pools sometimes get exposed, then covered, therefore the varying rates of radiation output. The water vapor may come from water hitting exposed portions of rods, which goes away as they achieve cover.

Reactor physics are not random walk in a practical sense. If you have real data: temperatures, pressures, radionuclide counts and typing, then you can determine with some accuracy what is going on. They either have it or they don't. Foreign countries are analyzing carry data from the mild transfer of products, and this can be reasonably accurate, but is skewed by the background radiation and minor steam venting that goes on at nuclear plants around the world.

I can not answer your last point, as I do not know what might happen. They are bringing in more water pumping resources (although they all seem related to pool watering). I think the reason they are concentrating on the pools is that they are not that concerned about the cores. They think they will gain control there  (after a fashion), and are relying on on the containment to..well, contain. Keep in mind that in this business, the very thick  concrete pad under the drywell is considered a part of the containment.

As this thing goes on, there will be air and sewater releases. I said a long time ago that they were dumping this stuff in the ocean when they started spraying. But, unless something dramatic happens, I expect the releases will grow smaller and less frequent. Could I be wrong? hell yes! But, every day that goes by without major incidence of escalation is a good thing.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:25 | 1129295 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Thanks, I value your point of view as well as your info per se.  Leaving it for tonight, but trying to assess the 'status quo' we seem to be seeing. 

FWIW I agree that they're concentrating on the pools but to me it's more a two-fer where 1) they hope to suppress the radiation to allow more access, and 2) the cores may be in bad shape but there's almost literally nothing more to be done about it.  I mean, if the water just runs out....

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:44 | 1129311 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

You are right. They are dealing with evils that can be dealt with.

Depending on how you are using the term "per se," I assume you are dissing my info. That is cool, my participation here is for entertainment purposes only. Unlike many, I refuse to take myself seriously.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 10:13 | 1129631 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Not a dis.  I used per se to distinguish between the info and the perspective.  Both are valuable.

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 00:41 | 1129226 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Couple of positive notes per NHK:

"On Saturday morning, a docked US military barge began pumping fresh water to cool the reactors. Another US barge carrying about 1,300 tons of fresh water has arrived at the site.

8 monitoring posts to measure radiation levels on the border of the compound started functioning again on Friday for the first time since the quake struck 3 weeks ago.

However, as the automatic data transmission system is still out of order, workers will make daily visits to collect the radiation data which TEPCO will then post on its website."

Sun, 04/03/2011 - 01:19 | 1129282 Aristarchan
Aristarchan's picture

Watch that barge they are pumping contaminated water into, It either has to dock at a rad waste facility (???), or dump its load in the ocean.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!