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Banks Commence Wholesale, Unsolicited Mortgage-Debt Forgiveness
It was just a matter of time before wholesale debt-forgiveness became the primary source of wealth in the US. The time is now. The NYT reports that "big banks are going to borrowers who are not even in default and cutting their debt or easing the mortgage terms, sometimes with no questions asked. Two of the nation’s biggest lenders, JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America, are quietly modifying loans for tens of thousands of borrowers who have not asked for help but whom the banks deem to be at special risk." To be deemed in "special risk" one needs to simply have an Option ARM mortgage, and be underwater, even if still current on mortgage payments. End result: an up to 50% cut in the actual mortgage obligation. To wit: "Ms. Giosmas, who lives in Miami, was not in default on her $300,000 loan. She did not understand why she would receive this gift — although she wasted no time in taking it. Before Chase shaved $150,000 off her mortgage, Ms. Giosmas owed much more on her place than it was worth. It was a fate she shared with a quarter of all homeowners with mortgages across the nation. Being underwater, as it is called, can prevent these owners from moving and taking new jobs, and places the households at greater risk of foreclosure." Whether this is a strategic step by the banks who wish to avoid tens if not hundreds of billions in fraudclosure and putback related legal costs, charges and reserves is for now unclear, although all signs point to yes. Next up: everyone in America stops paying their mortgage, or demands a 50% haircut on existing debt, now that the example has been made. And in the meantime, banks will somehow continue to keep the mortgages, which they have now cut by up to half, at par on their books following some brand new, thoroughly senseless announcement by the FASB which says banks can mark anything to whatever price they chose in perpetuity. Because otherwise, the TBTF lenders will suddenly find themselves in a massive deficiency on their Tier 1 capital, also known as completely insolvent.
“I used to say every day, ‘Why doesn’t anyone get rewarded for doing the right thing and paying their bills on time?’ ” said Ms. Giosmas, who is an acupuncturist and real estate investor. “And I got rewarded.”
Option ARM loans like Ms. Giosmas’s gave borrowers the option of skipping the principal payment and some of the interest payment for an introductory period of several years. The unpaid balances would be added to the body of the loan.
Bank of America and Chase inherited their portfolios of option ARMs when they bought troubled lenders during the housing crash.
Chase, which declined to comment on its program, got $50 billion in option ARM loans when it bought Washington Mutual in 2008. The lender, which said last fall that it had dealt with 22,000 option ARM loans with an unpaid principal balance of $8 billion, still has $33 billion of them in its portfolio.
Bank of America acquired a portfolio of 550,000 option ARMs from its purchase of Countrywide Financial in 2008. The lender said more than 200,000 had been converted to more stable mortgages.
More details on the example that prompted the NYT article:
Ms. Giosmas bought her two-bedroom, two-bath apartment north of downtown Miami for $359,000 in early 2006, according to real estate records. She made a large down payment, but because each month she paid less than was necessary to pay off the loan, her debt swelled to about $300,000.
Meanwhile, the value of the apartment nosedived. By the time Ms. Giosmas got the letter from Chase, the condominium was worth less than half what she paid. “I would not have defaulted,” she said. “But they don’t know that.”
The letter, which Ms. Giosmas remembers as brief and “totally vague,” said Chase was cutting her principal by $150,000 while raising her interest rate to about 5 percent. Her payments would stay roughly the same.
A few months ago, Ms. Giosmas sold the place for $170,000, making a small profit. Having a loan that her lender considered toxic, she said, “turned out to be a blessing in disguise.”
And so America is now well en route to another spike in class warfare tensions, as has been the default case for the past two years between those who act in a prudent financial way, and everyone else, who are now getting bail outs from the same banks that were bailed out by those stupid enough to pay US taxes in the first place:
The banks say cutting mortgage balances would be unfair to borrowers who remain current as well as impractical because so many loans are securitized into pools owned by investors. Bank of America’s chief executive, Brian T. Moynihan, told the attorneys general in April that cutting principal for current borrowers would send the wrong message to all those who have struggled to pay their bills. His counterpart at Chase, Jamie Dimon, bluntly said it was “off the table.”
Having an option ARM loan, however, apparently qualifies the borrower for special help. The loans, with their low initial payments and “teaser” interest rates, were immediately popular with buyers who could not afford or did not want to pay the soaring prices on houses. The problem was, eventually the rate would reset or the loan balance would have to be paid in full. “Nightmare Mortgages” they were called in a 2006 BusinessWeek cover piece.
Lastly, to all those who were predicting an Option ARM housing market collapse once loans go from Adjustable rate to fixed, the banks now have an answer. And it is wholesale mortgage debt reduction.
Option ARMs were never quite as bad as predicted, partly because the crisis pushed down interest rates so far that the resets were relatively mild. Many owners did default on them, but others, like Ms. Giosmas, were quite happy to pay less for years than they would have under a conventional loan. She used option ARMs on her investment properties too.
“They saved me,” she said. “Why would I want to pay a lot more every month? I’d rather have it in my pocket.”
Not surprisingly, this will be the same rhetorical question posed next by everyone who still has a mortgage, and not only by those, roughly 28% of all, who are underwater on their mortgage. Which means that wholesale mortgage reduction for everyone in America is next on the docket. Which also means that the "rent" component of personal income is about to surge from the current $50 billion annualized to well into the triple-digits, or about 1-2% of GDP, just enough to offset recession yet again.
And that's how you create wealth in the modern, centrally-planned USSA.
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"I sent the cult a wire stating, PLEASE ACCEPT MY RESIGNATION. I DON'T WANT TO BELONG TO ANY CULT THAT WILL ACCEPT ME AS A MEMBER. ..."
Are you claiming to actually be a sanctioned representative of the SPLC, and if so, how can it be verified?
Tyler,
This is bullshit. This guy is obviously not from the SPLC. He is, however, trying to make the SPLC look bad.
You wouldn't let me have the user name "Tyler Durden" or "Official Zero Hedge Moderator." This troll should not be allowed to use Southern Poverty Law Center.
long-shorty,
Why, SPLC is BAD...........they are lying no good sob's.
Sucking off the .gub teat, and so far left their nearly right.
They are a bunch of Agent Provocateurs.
Fed by the Beast.
I think he actually improves the image of the SPLC. Certainly cant hurt it. At least hes funny.
Southern Poverty Goat Center
Don't look now but someone is staring at you...
The other end of your horse would be too good an avatar for the SPLC pull your head out of your horse, they are lying scumbags.
Must be a wind-up...quite funny really
[...which attracts members of far-right groups such as Oath Keepers. It is our job to make sure the people are not sucked in by this extreme and hateful cult.]---Southern_Povert...
I'm an Oath Keeper.
Although, I am not authorized to speak on behalf of Oath Keepers in an official capacity, I am as a member and individual at liberty to speak my mind.
"Far-right group?" Well, yeah, relative to the far left. Or, anyone opposed to the US Constitution and the principles on which it was founded.
Extreme? Our Founding Fathers were extreme. Sadly, our founding principles today seem extreme.
Hateful cult? Give me a break. The members I know are smart, responsible, kind, hardworking, vets and former law enforcement people. We have no political party affiliation. Sorry, no blood-letting rituals that I've seen.
Question for ya FK:
Can you name any candidate that ran in the last four prez elections that we can say with a high degree of certainty wouldn't have bailed out any banks? (Hint:"Fire in the Belly")
The answer to that question alone should tell you which one was actually interested in operating within that constitution you claim to value so highly, but I'd wager you've been conditioned to stupidly label the guy 'lefty' because Ronald Reagan told you so, or due to some other such nonsense.
You really need to stop selling this situation as 'left-right'; it isn't. Continuing to do so is just propagating another successful divisive ruse designed to keep you exactly where you mushrooms are: in the dark and eating shit.
[Can you name any candidate that ran in the last four prez elections that we can say with a high degree of certainty wouldn't have bailed out any banks?]---GoinFawr
You'd have to go back to Pres. Calvin Coolidge to find that "candidate."
Regarding "selling this situation as 'left-right'" I think you're confusing dichotomies. Perhaps you mean to say Dems vs Repubs. I don't play the Dems vs Repubs game. However, ideology is the only discussion that matters in the affairs of governance. I see Marxists/socialist/Progressives on the LEFT, the Founding US principles at the CENTER of the ideological spectrum, and anarchists on the RIGHT. Obviously then, Marxists/socialist/Progressives are to the "left" of the US Founders.
Not long from now you will need to be absolutely certain where you stand ideologically. A question you never imagined having to ask yourself, or that such a "situation" would matter so much. My heart goes out to you and those who will have to make a hasty ill-informed decision.
Coolidge didn't run in a single one of the last four Prez elections. Try again. It is very telling that this dyed-in-the-wool constitutional republican third party candidate does not even register with you.
I'll give you another hint: "Clean Drinking Water Act"
PS I didn't junk you.
Hi GoinFawr.
Well, this is crazy, but I'm guessing you're a Ralph Nader guy.
Whomever you mean must fit your criteria as a "[candidate] which was actually interested in operating within that constitution you claim to value so highly." Also, a "dyed-in-the-wool constitutional republican."
Ralph Nader must NOT be the person of whom you speak.
Nader proposes a Single Payer National Healthcare Insurance. (The federal govt is not authorized by the US Constitution to enact such a law.)
Nader proposes the National Initiative act, which gives voters the right to create and vote for national legislation (propositions) as done in several states. (This act runs contrary to US Constitution's adherence to representative republic principles. Our Founders hated democracy rule.)
Nader also supports the Carbon Tax proposal, and wishes to repeal Taft-Hartley Labor Union Act. (No need to get into these, as the point is already made.)
Ralph Nader has done tremendous work protecting consumers. And he hates corruption as much as I. To his credit he would likely have not bailed out the banks. But, "operating within the Constitution?" No. A "constitutional republican?" No.
To your early statement. Ralph Nader is indeed LEFT of Ronald Reagan; and Ronald Reagan is LEFT of me.
Bingo!
"Nader proposes a Single Payer National Healthcare Insurance. (The federal govt is not authorized by the US Constitution to enact such a law)"
Where exactly does it specify that? As it stands right now Americans have the average life expectancy of a Chilean, at seven times the cost/capita. And 50 million (COUNT 'EM) without any coverage whatsoever. That system is so obviously broken, more of the same isn't going to fix it. Time to switch the priorities from 'War of Terror' and 'War on Hippies' to 'War on Diabetes'. It'd be a helluva lot cheaper too; could even make America some real friends. Can you say 'Net Benefit', as in an excellent EROI? I knew you could.
"Nader proposes the National Initiative act, which gives voters the right to create and vote for national legislation (propositions) as done in several states. (This act runs contrary to US Constitution's adherence to representative republic principles. Our Founders hated democracy rule.)"
Well that depends entirely on how the legislation is employed. Your extrapolation is quite the stretch, and right now your argument is being used to protect companies, not Americans. Are you actually saying that you don't deserve more participation in Federal policy? You're either forgetting or ignoring the fact that any legislation proposed under it would still have to stand up to constitutional challenges. IE You are ass backwards on this: such an Act would by design distribute more politcal power directly to Americans, not concentrate it further into the hands of a few plutocrats.
"Ralph Nader has done tremendous work protecting consumers. And he hates corruption as much as I. To his credit he would likely have not bailed out the banks"
These things alone should have had you seriously considering Ralph as a presidential candidate in 2008 (or since 1996 even). Especially over some inexperienced upstart anodyne or his 'Republican' foil. I'm sure you know full well that both those parties are bought and paid for by interests that aren't necessarily yours. Ralph is all about integrity, and has a proven track record of winning for mainstreet. He should have earned your trust by now, in fact IMHO: you owe it to him.
In short: you've allowed outdated ideological rote to dictate your position, and I am certainly not referring to what is written in your constitution.
"To your early statement. Ralph Nader is indeed LEFT of Ronald Reagan; and Ronald Reagan is LEFT of me."
Oh, well. I wish you had noted that at the top of the comment; I wouldn't have even bothered responding as it is apparently pointless.
Bonne Chance!
Is that you Weiner?
If Ms. Giosmas got a $150,000 write down she had better get her check book out because she's going to owe the State and Federal governments at least $30,000 in taxes on this "gift". That is in "Give us the money now or we will put you in prison." kind of happiness. Essentially these folks will be wiped out and many will be forced into Ch 11 simply due to the Tax bills and inability to scrap up the money. She will have a few months to file the form and send the check in. Not allowed to delay till year end filing on such a large "gift".
Spigot, Please read the previous posts:
ZackAttack
on Sun, 07/03/2011 - 12:38
#1422672
It is only taxable after the first $2 million, $1m for married/filing separately.
http://www.irs.gov/newsroom/article/0,,id=205004,00.html
Does this piss anyone else off as much as it does me?
I think you could be wrong. look at #3
3. You may exclude debt reduced through mortgage restructuring, as well as mortgage debt forgiven in a foreclosure.
What if it is not considered a mortgage restructuring if they issue a new loan/note. If they drop the principal on the existing note, then i agree with you, but if as others suggested they are trying to get more favorable note conditions setup and actually issue a new note, with new terms, new amount, and new loan number, then it might not be considered a restructure of the existing loan.
I wonder how they are actually doing it and what the paperwork consists of?
As long as the forgiven debt is tied to the mortgage on a primary residence, it is not taxable
So, the question is, do I stop paying my mortgage and allow it to be deemed "at risk" and receive a 50% haircut on the mortgage value or continue being a responsible citizen in my community? The mortgage that I have is 6 years old and is with Countrywide/JPMorgue.
Ask them to produce the note, baby. Has your loan been handed around like a [insert "type of prostitute" here] at a [insert "politician, bankster, or corporate power broker" here) party? If they don't know who owns it, then I wouldn't pay shit, never mind a 50% reduction. If it makes you feel better, put the money into an escrow account until the whole affair is sorted out. I predict no one owns it because so many laws have been broken in the transfer of title.
Don't let them off the hook. Countrywide may have been one of THE worst offenders in all of this. If you are underwater, it becomes even more important to know where you stand.
Hey Ms
I agree and I would speculate that Ms Giosmas is a phoney real estate investor. makes me feel warm and fuzzy all over.
Lookie here, Monkey, just because you pay a mortgage on time does not necessarily make you a responsibile citizen, just as not paying a mortgage does not makes you a threat to social order. You pay, I don't. Has nothing to do with either responsibility or citizenry.
Nothing against you personally, mind you, I just needed to make that point.
Thanks for the clarification. I would actually feel like a truly responsible citizen by stop paying the mortgage. I think I have already paid it once--with the f'g bailout in 2008--or am I missing something? These criminals will not be hurt if we all stop paying or continue to pay. I listened to Jim Willie say a couple of days ago to stop paying and set up a escrow account and make them prove they have the title. Solid advice.
The second Greek bailout gave the Fed the political cover to green light more backdoor bank bailouts. Because now the pot won't call the kettle black. They're all doodie-stained now and they're all on the same page: the failed banks will live on if we have to bail every nation and every household on earth!!
Then we all stand to go through what east germany endured after the fall of the frigging berlin wall! OMFG. I rather be in a dirt third world village instead of being kicked on every street corner while everything in the USA sold off globally like a "Big fire sale" according to "Big Daddy"
http://www.kitco.com/ind/willie/jul012011.html
Check out Jim Willies take...............it'll make you shite yourself.
Absolute fucking BS. I dont care if these loans goes from Non Rec to Rec or if you get hammered with a higher tax bill. The housing market needs to collapse to a level that is sustainable for our new economic means. Attempting to keep nominal values up whilst promoting inflation is going to wipe out middle America.
This is obviously helping banks the most , then over-indebted idiots next , whilst screwing those that have lived within their means or saved. I know the game is to smoke out honest savers into buying overpriced real estate or stocks but its going to backfire badly.
Fuck the banks and fuck the greedy idiots who lived WAAAAAAY beyond their means. You are not smoking me out.
I'm with you!
I won't play their game (sell my precious metals) if it means eating out of bins! (I'm serious)
I ain't selling my PM's either.
I have tried to think about what it will take to sell.... I have not come up with any plausable answers yet.
Hunger?
Nope.
Growing crops and have reserves. None of that Cosco shit either.
I've been known to take deer and have venison over the winter long ago.
If the United States entire Money structure based on the Dollar failed, then a new currency would be brought in aka Germany Weirmer in the 30's with a bunch of old no good Marks for one new Mark... that Silver and Gold is going to come in handy.
Tax avoidance will increase. People smart enough to make dough will find more ways to keep it.
I will say this w/ regard to the story. The lady did NOT make every "payment"... The principal balance was increasing. Had she made a fully amortized payment, her outstanding loan balance would not have increased back to $300,000 and the interest would not have piled up either.
The people who bought at the peak with high leevrage are fooked - so what? Its the ones like the lady in Oakland who bought her casa for $50k decades ago and eventually had a $600+k mortgage against it - no crocodiles tears for that beesh, and should be NO bailout either.
ghfghgfhdfgh
Hmm...sorry for the above...anyway, I think I have the answer here how the savers and people who never took out mortgages can fight back. Here's my formula:
1: live with your parents - no rent and free food
2: get a job and don't spend anything
3: short real estate stocks, anything with exposure to these mortgages - plus facebook, tech stocks etc
4: put everything you save and make from the shorting into precious metals
5: pick the bottom for the housing market and buy one (or possibly several) outright (maybe outside of the us)
6: have a hareem of wives
7: become a wise old man unconcerned with money, sage like
1- Been there, done that. Trucking saved me.
2- Got a job, again trucking was to be a King or Captian of one's own ship until the Satellite got into the cab allowing YOUR boss to micromanage your every move and waking/sleeping minute.
3- Never bought real estate stocks. Wife had some good energy stocks and sold out. That dropped to 5 a share and we thought about buying back in... and did not only to see it go back up to 40 a share over time. UGH....
4- PM's you damn well bet! Should have done it long ago at 200 gold and 5 silver. But again when you are pimply faced high school graduate, no one tells you a goddamn thing.
5- We picked a good house for around... 30K and sunk twice that into making it right and continue to pour sweat, blood and fucking tears into necessary repairs etc.
6- Not wives. Just wife.
7- I am a wise old man, angry about money due to what others have done to skate through thier lives without concern for actually being good and wise with money.
In time I too will be unconcerned about it. But I will wait a while because the PM's are still piling up.
Dear Ms. Giosmos, watch out ... here comes that 1099 for $150,000. Yes, of course JPM is reporting this event to the IRS. With a short sale, seems the banksters were sometimes willing to use the "tax event" thing of debt forgiveness as a bargaining chip if the seller was savvy enough to demand it.
My guess is - YES, the market is going lower, YES, we just had the first in what will be many court rulings in favor of investors who now realize they were peddled empty boxes - therefore, a new wilingness for banksters to adjust.
Last but not least, there will be some form of correction in title chain as part of these "conversions". This last point is, frankly, where most of these banksters are fucked, if not. My mortgage is paid off before the end of this year and the servicer has asked ME for a copy of the original loan document. I have it, but this reveals that this mess is all pervasive.
Goodwill amounting to 50% of original loans (yeah, maybe securitized, too - great idea) can be counted as titheing & therefore a charitable tax deduction and proof that these banksters arre finally doing God's work.
"And that's how you create wealth in the modern, centrally-planned USSA."
Great article until the last sentence. One can actually belittle the sun coming up but it gets old.
Our great nation is actually in the throes of a vacuum of planning, supervision. Gripped by the lie of Austrianism.
If by vacuum, you mean the giant sucking sound of the federal and state regulatory employees who are in charge of "planning".
If there's a lack of planning and supervision then why are there 2.2 million federal employees and millions of pages of federal laws and regulations? WTF are all those bureaucrats doing all day? That's more employees than AT&T, Verizon, GE, GM, Ford, Chrysler, McDonalds, UPS and Fedex combined. There will never be enough laws and federal employees to keep fuckheads like you happy
Big banks.
Fuck those fucking fuckers.
Nobody is writing me a goddamn check for my paid-off house. It's nice that shit for brains speculators get rewarded isn't it?
Now you've really done it with:
"Nobody is writing me a goddamn check for my paid-off house. It's nice that shit for brains speculators get rewarded isn't it?"
an insult to everyone of us at times!
But it's OK---we each have to laugh at ourself at times
It's a scam (the banks) are trying to generate NEW promissory notes to ADD to their books, they are doing it because on every mortgage that was securitized the Banks broke title, by breaking title they have lost all rights to a security interest in the property, this is a way of tricking the borrowers into granting back that security interest (uuuhh we lost the old contract, can you sign me another one? so that I have proof to foreclose with?) no doubt the modifications are recourse based now instead of non-recourse based or have some legal mumbo jumbo obsolving the banks of any responsibility in some future event that is bound to happen soon.
This is an INSURANCE POLICY that the banks are PURCHASING, not some magical "lets be friends", you can't be "friends" with a fraudulant evil decieving entity like JP Morgan Chase.
I don't have a mortgage because I paid cash for my house. I was able to pay cash because i sold my last house in 2006 when prices were up and then did not buy a more expensive house. Maybe I should have bought a more expensive house with a mortgage. Still I am glad not have had to worry making the payments. Maybe I should go out now and get a mortgage and then default and get a write off? anyone think that it a good strategy. One thing - if the banks that are doing this get into trouble because they are diminishing their capital and come looking for a handout, they can get fucked. hear that Jamie and Brian, that means you good buddies.
why not buy a renter? there are houses 3 blocks away from me that would have 500/month mortage payment. utilities would jack that up to 700. and rents about 1400. dont get anything older then 1980.
No use buying a shovel and a wrangler now. Gold rush is over.
I defaulted on both of my BofA loans when, after six months of asking, BofA couldn't produce the notes on my second mortgages, telling me they are "No longer pursuing the matter." They have since had a computer glitch and started sending mail to a very old address. Hopefully I will get a letter somehow with some good news. I have been quietly encouraging everyone to default on their credit card debt, mortgage debt. ¡VIVA LA REVOLUCION!
Hope you enjoy your free money.
I'd love to see ZH put up a post with a boilerplate "Qualified Written Request" available for free download. Readers adapt and send them to your servicers via USPS Certified/Return Receipt.
It's your right pursuant to RESPA. After your servicer (who very rarely has ANY skin in the game) tells you to "get lost" or fails to respond, open a complaint with OCC.
What about a Recision Letter under TILA ;)
This is should be an indicator to many people that housing prices are going back down to 2001 levels or lower.
The banks know that the homes are going to lose 80 - 90% of their current value, so they are just trying to get an enforceable contract out of "borrowers" aka "true lenders" to "third party debtors" known as Banks.
If the bank knows that a 400,000$ house with an 800,000$ mortgage is going to go down in value and end up at around 80 - 120,000$ market value.... it stands to reason that the borrower will default on the mortgage (let the house go) and dump the 800,000 debt and then go save up in the new inflation driven economy to buy a house cash, while living in his house for free.(afterall posession is 9/10ths of the law) and the home owner is the only one left with actual title rights since the banks broke title by ripping the mortgage away from the note and selling the note as a security which voids its status as a note, leaving the mortgage "unsecured", if the bank doesn't trick the borrower into signing a new note to back the mortgage, there is no contract and the bank has no legal authority to do anything but sit there paying the property taxes and insurance on someone elses house.
If you have a 900,000 mortgage on a house thats worth 300,000 , the financially viable thing to do is, to stop paying, put the money on the side, wait for home prices to drop , live in your house for as long as possible for little to no cost, and buy a house when they are cheap IN CASH, without credit.
You will be able to... afford food/electricity/ to keep your car, and in the end you will end up with A HOUSE, maybe not the one you are living in now, but still a house.... it just makes sense... the banks are going down anyway, you are not harming anyone by doing t his, (other than speculators buying into this fake recovery that the stock market is trying to project), but hey gamblers are gona gamble, and sometimes they lose, and besides... when did you agree to be a pawn on the black jack tables of the stock market anyway? you probably never knew that 10000s of people where going to gamble on you paying your house... that wasn't in the contract you sighned because if they do put that on the contract, that makes you an investor not a debtor. . . and it voids the note, no one would be able to buy it as a security because it would show how legally worthless it is.
This is the truth.
This is act of "debt forgiveness" is just another scheme the banks have thought up to suck in as much money as possible before the house of cards comes crashing down... nothing more/nothing less.
I knew this was coming.
Rescission is tricky because of the issue of "tender" and the ambiguity of equitable tolling. Particularly if standing is an issue. To whom would you tender payment?
For those who have paid off their mortgage I certainly hope you have your original "Satisfaction of Mortgage" document (hopefully not signed by Linda Green...lol).
Even if you have paid it off, or boast of some "Moral Contract" indicative of one's integrity, you may realize when you attempt to sell your home you have no clear title.
You will feel rather silly with nothing but your moral contract to cling to. Who will you wag your finger at then?
How many "books" did your obligation land in? How many Credit Default Swaps lived in each "book"? I'll go out on a limb and suggest that number was more than one.
The goodwill forgiveness crap is just that. If you think they are screwing homeowners (the plankton at the bottom of the Ponzi Food Chain) you should see what they are doing to themselves.
All of this shit will have to be paid by your children or grand children...because the banking scum has foist this upon the taxpayer with approval of govt. puppets.
Your moral contract is not going to help them either.
While you're buying that house for cash, better be darned certain that there are no title issues and that you get a general warranty deed. Run the title. If you see MERS anywhere, hold onto your cash and keep shopping. We're not through with that empty box entity.
Hey,if you get a big tax-bill for the reduction,you can alway's take out a heloc to cover it :)
BTW. Didn't Reggie Middleton predict this?
Reggie, stop that, post as yourself.
:-)
The letter, which Ms. Giosmas remembers as brief and “totally vague,” said Chase was cutting her principal by $150,000 while raising her interest rate to about 5 percent. Her payments would stay roughly the same.
This is some kind of accounting gimmick for the banks- At 5% over 30 years, her total payback is the same as the outstanding principal on the Option ARM which the rate is close to 0%, hence her payments would stay the same.
The positive for Obama is, now she can sell without the hassle of a short sale and get the real estate market moving again. Better check that totally vague letter for the word RECOURSE though: ain't no such thing as a free lunch, especially from a bankster.
There is only what? two states that are no recourse? We sure aint one of them.
Taxes on Mortgage Debt Foregiveness is so 2006...she'll get a 1099 but won't be liable for Taxes on her Primary Residence. Read below:
The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act (know as H.R. 3648) was introduced in Congress on September 25, 2007, and became law on December 20, 2007. This act offered relief to homeowners who would formerly owe taxes on forgiven mortgage debt after facing foreclosure. The act extends such relief for three years, applying to debts discharged in calendar year 2007 through 2009. (With the Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008, this tax relief was extended another three years, covering debts discharged through calendar year 2012.)
Normally in US law when a lender decides to forgive all or a portion of a borrower's debt and accept less, the forgiven amount is considered as income for the borrower and is liable to be taxed.
However, The Mortgage Forgiveness Debt Relief Act of 2007 amends the Internal Revenue Code to exclude from gross income amounts attributable to a discharge of indebtedness incurred on a principal residence. H.R. 3648 would ensure that any amount forgiven on mortgage debt secured by a principal residence would not be taxed. This bill will apply whether it is a short sale, foreclosure, deed in lieu of foreclosure or any other similar arrangement that relieves the borrower of the obligation to pay some portion of their debt on their primary residence. The amount of forgiven mortgage debt allowed to be excluded from income tax is limited to $2 million per year.
Should have happened 4 years ago when the problem was realized. Instead they took it to the very brink, guaranteed bonuses, fired no one, lied to congress, and won pardon in 2008 for any malfeasance under that 12 page TARP bill. In the end, the solution was always going to be that the banks were going to have to have principle reduction.
It's about to time to go totally risk-on.
It's not "risk-on" when risk is being removed from the equation. The correct term is "Ponzi-on". And if any real risk ever emerges you bet yer boots it's "Ponzi-off"
this isn't "Risk On" it's effectively a belated realisation property is depreciating and an effective hair-cut for bankers
News flash: Bankers are megalomaniacs.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/munger_megalomaniacs_did_it_K18hHUGARUC1jVFWkvlQEN
consider the source of this story and that campaign 2012 is underway
the last two tricks in the administration's economic bag are a Mortgage Mod program and Corporate Tax repatriation plan either of which make QE 2 chump change. The S&P is about to go parabolic as the details of these plans leak out. This NYT article is designed to create demand for a formal program thereby providing cover for the admin. (and for those suckers who dutifully pay their debts, relax they will be tossed a few bones to keep them quiet)
It's really quite elegant, give Jamie, Schmidt, Chambers et. al a $700 billion tax gift and give their deadbeat customers another $700 billion in Mortgage Mods. and both gifts have a silver lining. For the mortage mod program, it won't trigger incremental taxes for the mortgagor but will create writeoffs for the mortagee. For the tax repatriation program a large portion will be plowed into stock buy backs thereby goosing the value of the zillions of options the banksters and their ilk have tucked away.
QE∞ is about to start.
nice discription ;)
So true, also WHO actually owns the note,contract, now?.
My $ is likely FM/FM, and there now a .gub owned entity for all practical purposes.
The banks may not be the one's playing fast and loose,they may just be the organ grinders monkey.
My thoughts exactly. The government is about to become the landlord to many.
After all what better way to get some collateral on the cheap for all the worthless money they have had printed.
So along this line.... The forced bank marriages b/w banks; is the FDIC picking up 85% of these losses from the brides' dowries? FDIC front-loaded 3 years of premiums, is already "broke" and is on the hook via loss-share agreements. Wiley Coyote has stepped off the cliff and is now suspended in air. The whoosh is taking painfully long time. (Wiley Coyote = Taxpayers?????).
Such is my lot.
This is beyond fucked. Those fucking parasites should be drawn and quartered. I've rented for the past 11 years because I knew better than to buy something I could not pay for and knew all these god damn places were way over priced. Where's my compensation?
This whole snafu, will bring home values down even faster. The book values of unsold houses were written down by 50% - no?
I am prudent renter too - this is good news.
Probably a 50% increase in rent flowing to the Landlord who just recieved a 50% reduction in the mortgage ON YOUR PAD in addition to everyone else in the fucking building.
Tom T,
Pretty much what I said above Tom, but someone junked me for it.
Maybe because I added a line about those irresponsible getting a free ride. I haven't rented, I own my shit. I never played fast and loose with something I couldn't afford.
This is just pissing me off more as I see "responsible" people respond to this article.
Sucker.
"Banks Commence Wholesale, Unsolicited Mortgage-Debt Forgiveness"
Chris Dodd has already got the best terms in the US on his crony mortgage, don't tell me he's getting it even better!!
Maybe they know, that interest rate is about to go up dramatically, due to end of QE2.
For banksters interest payments are the bread and butter, and the principal is only secondary.
Bingo! Interesting theory. And might be true.
Banks give two shits for Principal. It's the Interest! And they then take the money to the overnight window and lend each other that money at higher rates and wring money out of the "sponge"
there is no Principal
there is no spoon, eh tip e.? That is the real mind bender.
Just watch, this is all part of the next presidential election campaign. Either that, or the federal reserve has given up, and has informed all its owners and co-conspirators that massive deflation is right around the corner (but I don't believe this for a nanosecond).
This kind of insanity is what happens when predators have totally unconstrained control of the fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve vaporware money machine, and even the appearance of ethics is long gone. It costs them zero to print, and they do. And anyone who thinks any of us know how much vaporware computer-bit money they've created is the most naive fool in the history of mankind.
Message to everyone who is underwater: stop paying. Just stop paying, and take all that money you would have payed each month and buy physical gold and silver, and hide it well. When they supposedly "loaned" you money, they actually did nothing of the kind... they just poked a few keys and presto-chango some account balance went up. They gave you nothing. Give nothing back.
Disclaimer: I've never taken a loan in my life, mortgage included. So my purpose is not to justify my actions. Fact is, I'm one of the frugal who is constantly shafted by everything the bankster and government predators do. But those predators are the worst slime on earth, and need to be harmed and eliminated in any way possible.
Usually you only got the debt forgiveness if you left the house via foreclosure, short sale, or deed in lieu of foreclosure. If you stayed in the house then it must have been a mofication added on to the existing mortgage note.
I wonder if the banks are actually issuing new loans to go from the option arm, to a fixed instead of modifying the existing note. If so, then debt forgiveness may not apply because it is not a re-structuring of the existing mortgage note?
The reason I'm so suspicious about the debt forgiveness is that the Federal government is very concerned with reductions in tax collections and if this practice gets some momentum they will not want to miss out on those tax collections.
call a spade a spade.
simple trick its called NOVATION> the banks are trying to get people to resign legal documents that are not enforceable in order to make them enforceable. the pretense is that it's loan forgiveness.
it's the ONLY thing that can make a non-enforceable contract, enforceable. resigning it under terms that provide 'consideration' , a new benefit to the priorly screwed, inferior, counterparty.
"call a spade a spade.
simple trick its called NOVATION> the banks are trying to get people to resign legal documents that are not enforceable in order to make them enforceable. the pretense is that it's loan forgiveness.
it's the ONLY thing that can make a non-enforceable contract, enforceable. resigning it under terms that provide 'consideration' , a new benefit to the priorly screwed, inferior, counterparty. "
+1 exactly, they know their old contracts are bust/lost/fraud/fake/ and instead of trying to fix the problem or admit that their wrong-doing, they are trying to paper it over with this "bribe", if the borrower only knew what the banks really did to them and their "loan" , the borrower would tell the bank to go shove it.
So by living within my means, being in 0 debt, and renting, I have fucked myself for the rest of my life?
That's the message I'm getting from the system.
Save money? Lol inflation.
Live within your means? Lol, enjoy a shitty life while everyone else lives high on the hog.
Rent to save money? Lol, Obama gon' pay mah mortgage.
I...I don't know what to think right now.
Stay to your cannons and keep the anti boarding nets up and pass the ammunition.
Don't quit now.
Dont go into debt for any reason. Don't sign a goddamned thing.
BUY Pm's with both fucking hands until you keel over dead from a stroke trying to carry it home from the mail (Assuming registered US Mail)
Easy, even strain. Don't stroke.
Yes we are all effing angry... but buckle up with that good gun belt and keep your ammo dry. Make preparations while you can.
Sure you don't know what to think... I don't either... But one way or another, there will be a resolution and it MIGHT just come when the USA defaults or something.
Those who flap the mouth and sing praises to the good bank giving them gifts are the first ones going to be strung up at the lamp post come judgement day.
The world is not fair, never will be.
We all pay taxes to a bank that does nothing but print fake money, then the owners of that bank collect 98% of the worlds wealth and uses it to make the rest of the world suffer and slave away for them.
We are all slaves, some of us are just "better off" than other, a slave in nice clothing is still a slave.
Don't hate the home-owners, hate the banks, they are the ones that orchistrated and started this precurser to class warfare.
This is just another thing to push class warfare.... its on purpose and by design.... the banks have acumulated enough money to simply forget about all the loans they have on their books.... its not about the money, its about control and causing chaos.... the only way for everyone to get back to a system that makes sense is to rip the king pin banks off their throne.
Its too late for that now though, War is coming.... big War...
"This is just another thing to push class warfare.... its on purpose and by design...."
a thought to consider from clif high's latest:
In a broad sense, what this strategy is designed to accomplish is a 3/three way split of the [populace (and/or popular mood)] in which one group is bound to its [oppressors] by [apparent need], and the other two groups are [set at each other's throats].
i/o/w it's a trick, don't fall for it.
"Lol, Obama gon' pay mah mortgage."
He's paying for your gasoline as well.
LOL. At myself.
He is? I must have missed that at the pump yesterday when I dropped $53 to fill it up when this time last year it cost me $35.
These banks clearly have some ulterior motives -- 'extend and pretend' or perhaps even repairing their fatally-flawed paperwork with new loan documentation. No one should ever go for one of their 'deals' without getting independent and competent legal advice.
Or, simply agree to the GIFT, if they eat the taxes due.
Otherwise, No signee.
Play some liars poker.
What a coincidence. Better get in line and buy some damn homes now before it's too late.
Equity appreciation in real estate is dead for at least a generation. Falling wages, increasing taxes and rising interest rates (sooner or later over the next 20 years) guaranteee it.
It's clear that the "prudent" are in the crosshairs. So go ahead, buy some real estate and make a better target of yourself.
Homes in the U.S. are the most affordable they’ve been in decades (True)
“It’s very unlikely that we will see a significant further decline,” (False), wait till the prices drop the next move ,at least 20%.
The real question is when will we start to see sustainable increases. (When the UE rate is back to 5%,and we start re-industrialization,the only way to get there).
Or, when you start telling the truth.............
Doing the opposite of fear mongering, pushing the greed monster once more.The same crap that got us here.
Here's the silver lining. "They" have yet to extract most of the "recoupment" from savers and taxpayers. Your job is to figure about how to avoid getting "juiced".
This strategy works fine as long as bank borrowing costs are extremely low. Once again, like Gumnut finance, the kick-the-can scheme blows sky high when shorter-term rates start ratcheting up. Banks will then be caught in a massive disintermediation, defined as lending long on poor-quality loans at far-too-low rates, and borrowing short at rising cost. This doesn't even include the effects higher interest on underlying housing collateral, which has deteriorated even in this very-inexpensive-rate and kick-the-can climate. Further, I would suggest that underwater modified homeowners will treat their properties the way a renter would. Although they may not trash the place, they would certainly be performing little maintenance, and put little investment into the properties. Since many modifications fail, ultimately a group of no-skin-in-the-game, "quasi renter/owners" (I need a Winterism for this, if anybody has one?) will cause a bleed in the recoveries for the TBTF institutions.
JPM opening new branches like mad.
In fact, on brand new one going up in my neighborhood.
According to Bloomberg, JPM makes $1 million/yr. in profit from each new branch opened.
No wonder they can afford to write down mortgages left and right.
http://www.wallstreetbear.com/board/view.php?topic=83163&post=295329
The Banks have been shooting themselves in the foot for a long time. Every time they forclose they put the property on the Market for 25% lower than the true Market value, just to dump it and get a quick sale. Then the next Bank does the same and Dumps their forclosed property fort 25% less than the last Bank. It is easy to see why property values have dropped so dramatically. Now normal homeowners that want to sell have to sell for the last value of the Dumped property as appraisers will not appraises it any higher.
So, as more and more Banks Dump Foreclosures lower that the last it has created a downward spiral. Every month more and more homeowners become underwater as the prices decrease. You end up with almost everyone who bought a house in the last 15 years underwater and create a great moral hazard as many have to decide whether to stay and pay or dump and run.
This has cost local Governments dearly as the property values drop so does their taxable base on Property Taxes. Meridith Witney is probably not that wrong about Municipal Bonds. Because without a good Property Tax base Local Governments will not have the revenue to pay for all of the money they borrowed thru Municipal Bonds for their improvements.
Modification for existing homeowners is a good starting solution. But, they need to do more. They need to allow everyone who has paid their mortgage for the last 12 months or for even stricter guidelines 24 months get an automatic interest reduction, from their current rate to 3%. This needs to be done without refinancing which cost the Borrower Transfer Tax and Stamps.
This will go a long way to correct the housing problem in the US.
Why is everyone here so angry?
Probably good news for everyone. Might as well put the mortgage crisis behind us, move on, so all of us can enjoy the coming economic boom and resurgence.
Nothing good is going to happen if the mortgage mess stays mired in the mud for the next 20 years. Otherwise, we would be like Japan, stuck in the dark ages.
At least here in the U.S., the Plutocrats quickly solved the problem with massive money printing, extend and pretend, and now massive "forgiveness gifts" that will help everyone.
All for the "greater good"...
LOL...
i've just obtained this video of Hank Paulson having saved the economy suddenly being informed about "issues with housing" and his vain attempt to save that as well:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVIt0DYKssI&feature=player_detailpage
Looks like the only people who are getting screwed are the Suckers who are still actually paying for anything these days...and The American Taxpayers who are bailing out the banks who are in turn handing free loans for deabeats.
"It's a Wonderful Life, George!"
The comments so far have been interesting.
Here's another perspective: given the amount of State debts, the current failure of at least one state to form a solution leading to shut down (cue angry voters and JP Morgan happy to subsume all publically owned entities, aka, "we're buying your country"; note also how "little banks", co-ops and so forth are being squeezed now just like Reagan did with mutuals back in the late 80's) and the geopolitical tripartite show down we're seeing at the moment, all of this serves only one purpose:
Keep the "American Dream" ideologically sustainable (and, nod to some clear thinkers in here, "legally enforceable").
Debt is not a position you want to be in soon. If you've been paying attention, loading debt onto youth has already happened: education, insurance, you name it - I spent some time discussing this with 17-19 yr olds recently, and seeing how, for instance, their car insurance was £4-5k / annum fully comp, which compared to their wages and so on, is simply removing their ability to get on a "ladder", let alone let them work in a rural setting. Not to mention CC's and wages stagflation - I spoke to a kid (17) who this weekend [Fri night after school, Sat, Sun] worked 21 hrs (some for me, most in a bar job - he was pulling £5.25 / hr doing shifts 10pm - 3am at a bar) and seeing how he viewed his outlook; bottom line, military service was his, and his friend's, only chance at coming out close to earning a place in society.
At this point in time, young people aren't being radicalised purely due to control methods: in a world with the internet, this is rapidly becoming unsustainable. Once they get the system, this will devolve rapidly. And yes; said 17 yr old (not the brightest in his class, but a decent kid) said to me: "Of course I understand that there's no such thing as democracy... I'm not that naive". They get it; they also get that they're inheriting a shit storm with older generations willing to shaft them rather than improving the world. The first people to provide a decent alternative will clean the floor and will remove this pointless wheel grind forever.
And no, Reddit readers, not everyone can be an 'entrepreneur'; the talents are rare, and the circumstances becoming less real. The 1% 'raising up' humanity is getting drowned in shit, and pretending everyone can do it is resulting in the opposite - 90% of people thinking that there's an easy option.
Personally, in April 2011, we made sure that we had zero debt to any institutions. In October, I suspect this will bear very real fruit in terms of freedom and ability to exist in a manner than isn't indentured servitude.
This is the message from Gerald Celente.
In 2009 Celente predicted turmoil which he described as "Obamageddon" and he was a popular guest on conservative cable-TV shows such as Fox News Sunday and Glenn Beck's television program.[6] In April 2009 Celente wrote, "Wall Street controls our financial lives; the media manipulates our minds. These systems cannot be changed from within. There is no alternative. Without a revolution, these institutions will bankrupt the country, keep fighting failed wars, start new ones, and hold us in perpetual intellectual subjugation."[20] He appeared on the Glenn Beck show and criticized the U.S. stimulus plan of 2009, calling government controlled capitalism "fascism" and saying shopping malls in the U.S. would become "ghost malls."[21] Celente has said, "smaller communities, the smaller groups, the smaller states, the more self-sustaining communities, will 'weather the crisis in style' as big cities and hypertrophic suburbias descend into misery and conflict," and forecasts "a downsizing of America."
I can assure you: our political differences are rather extreme, however, he has grasped the direction the wind is blowing.
"Paying down debt is good."
Keep saying it a few thousand times and maybe you'll beleive it. Sadly, the Fed is rewarding risk-takers and spenders instead of savers and hard workers. As a recent WSJ article pointed out, debtors are getting cake and ice cream at the expanse of savers and frugal.
How long will workers put up with this nonsense?
Fact: not everyone is a mortgage owner; some are small/medium businesses.
It is small/medium businesses I was referring to.
They picked a nice case to write about. Buyer put substantial money down, had a predatory mortgage which she was paying. The typical case is more like this, bought with nothing down, took out a series of home equity loans totaling $195k, stopped paying five years ago. Lives for free, has nice cars, nice vacations, etc.. The maggots are rewarding themselves and their co-conspirators the deadbeats. This doesn't end until the whole thing collapses in a heap.
http://www.miamidade.gov/pa/property_search.asp
and your point is? i mean words like "maggots" and "deadbeats" seem oddly out of place when combined with terms like "nice cars" and "nice vacations" with even an "etc..." to make some dream of more.
Buzzsaw
NYT always pick the nice case to write about, they're
part of the propaganda machine. Speaking from personal
experience, I've seen a lot more of your scenario in
the last few years.
From the bank's point of view, this could make sense. If the borrower is heavily underwater and likely to default anyway, the bank would be forced to foreclose, take a loss on the loan, and face all of the expenses and missed payments from reselling the home. Plus, putting the home up for sale would probably depress prices, causing even more losses and perhaps causing other borrowers to consider defaulting. It appears to me that the banks are doing everything possible to avoid flooding the market with lots of foreclosed homes.
But I wonder how and when the loss will be written off on the bank's balance sheet.
What you say really make sense. They ( banks) should have not done this at the first place, makes more sense.
They're going to 1099 the homeowners though yes!???
Holy F&^cking S&^t!!
This housing fraud is a true example of a ponzi scheme.
Its more like counterfeiting, securities fraud and financial terrorism, not really a full ponze scheme.
Hmm,
...the bank gained good paper,
...the IRS gained a payday,
...the woman's interest rate went up and her monthly payment remained about the same.
Gotta wonder if that was a new 30-year note of if it was for the remaining duration of her original loan.
Don't see that she gained a thing except maybe a larger mortgage interest write-off for the time she continued in the new mortgage.
There's no money for the IRS. The bank writes off the bad debt to reduce their taxable income. The homeowner has non-taxable debt cancellation.
What is amazing is that after 3 years the Banks finally figured out that it is more economical to work with the Homeowner than to Foreclose. I mean REALLY. It does not take a brain surgeon to figure this out.
Cost of Foreclosure: Legal fees, 6 months without income from payments, damage to the property, Realtors fees, Property Taxes, Property Insurance, Loss of value because they will not fix up the houses before they sell them, time on the Market for sale, time before they can close, etc. At least 25% of a propertys value is lost in Foreclosure. This does not take into consideration damage from vandalism, theft of copper, wiring, cabinets, appliances. Which can depreciate the value even more. Without carpet, kitchen cabinets, plumbing, and any major damage to the drywall, no Bank will lend money to a Buyer. This means that it will have to sell for Cash and with a Cash Buyer you will get probably even another 25% less. With Cash only Buyers the Banks are only limited to INVESTORS, looking for a rock bottom bargain. As they will have to pay CASH and invest CASH to fix the property up. The Investors will need CASH to hold the property and CASH to pay Property Taxes and Insurance. Not many people fit into that category and that is why the selling price is so low. So, minimum of a 50 to 75% haircut.
Plus, the reduced value they have to sell for reduces the value of any other properties they may have in the area that are not paying their Mortgage and about to foreclose. They have been digging a deeper and deeper hole for themselves, with each house they foreclose on.
Thanks god I'm not American but if I were, I would really really be pissed off reading this, especially if I always had paid my taxes and mortgage payments while working hard day by day.... Great country really !!!!!!
I guess anyone who played by the rules; working 40+ hours per week, paid his taxes, paid his mortgage, voted for his representative might well feel like a right fucking idiot about now.
Does this mean I get the shaft again for paying down my mortgage and not cheating on my taxes? (yes xamax, I'm American and pissed, again).
Yes
I thought so, maybe I should "go Greek"?
Marx would be proud.
Being banks couldn't even offer HAMP legally, you can bet there is underlying motivation,
The banks have been offering this for some time now and I am inclined to think it was so they could renegotiate and have chain of title papers be in order should probes and investigations continue.
Very unusual move, but I suspect that higher interest rates in the background will mitigate losses on the front end. This while interest rates are set to decline.
You will also get a lot of properties being moved, so perhaps this is a sign that a capitulation is in the cards.
BAH HUMBUG!
More BS distractions.
Radiation Cover up Confirmed:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcqzDw8eV24&feature=share
No matter who you are, or where you go, or what you do, THIS!...is the relative subject that affects us ALL.
:~< - Here comes the Lord!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTLvNJSEBHM
Going long on POM. (Peace of Mind)
Short histroy of Inflation in the US - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afWqKcqntfs&feature=relmfu
Who are the lawyers handling the class action suit for those who hadn't had their mortgages reduced or terms improved?
Exactly,
To all of you who have paid off your mortgages or otherwise been a little more responsible while purchasing a home, a big F*CK YOU!!!
You! Yes you, get to bail out the criminal and/or irresponsible big banks who bail out the irresponsible home-buyer.
How about this??? Irresponsible Banks Fail. Irresponsible Borrowers Fail. Responsible savers get to keep their money and possibly be afforded an investment opportunity.
I've had it with this country. I'm just about ready to leave.
Happy Fourth everyone.
Good question. If anybody knows one, I'm in. Otherwise suggest running up the biggest HEL poosible, transferring the dough to an organization outwith US jurisdiction (Caymen, Belize, etc) before giving them the finger. Don't forget now-bigger is better. You must be too big to default.
This reads like more of reward the worst, punish the prudent.
But who is John Galt?
The Democrat party (Dodd/Frank) create easy credit to buy votes ! Now they are preparing to fix the problem and buy votes ! The bankers, the brokers, the unionized candlestick makers are pawns of the Democrat machine which has ruled this country for 80 years ! Mrs. "Geomass'" solution is for the prudent with problems ...... the ass monkey crowd will get complete forgiveness and cradle to grave everything ! SNAP cards will be accepted at Church's Fried Chicken ! "Don't doubt me !"....R. Limbaugh Monedas 2011 They can buy your vote with public money......but you are not free to sell it !
Bloomberg:
Brazilians buying condos in Miami
http://www.bloomberg.com/video/71197702/
Something stinks (more than usual), how are they going to hide these writedowns? I understand that it's the beginning of the quarter but if this is to become a widespread practice it would have to result in a huge hits to the financials.
That is very funny. You think the bankstas are going to pay for this out of their bonus pool?
No, question is how do they hide it? They've already tapped their reserves (which they had no business doing)
They have $550 trillion worth of unfunded liabilities ? "Hiding" these write downs is no big deal for this crowd ? Monedas 2011 Let's keep focused on the top of the power pyramid......Democrats and some goofball Republicans ! Monedas 2011 We get the shit we vote for......Mobocrats !
The building is on fire and while the flames haven't reached the casino the gamblers are starting to smell smoke
Silver $-
http://missivesinstitute.blogspot.com/2011/07/silver.html
I still don't understand. If they don't have the title, then how can issue the new note?
This the same thing - if they cannot foreclose, then they cannot sign new mortgage on the same thing - no?
see: Piranhanoia
on Sun, 07/03/2011 - 13:35
could be what the banks are doing is trying to get anything they can because they don't have legal right to collect anyway.#1422675
If you pay me $10K, I will write you a nice letter, lowering your principal by 50%. Oh - and you will start sending me your monthly mortgage payments, too. If title/note are lost or clouded, then I have the same standing as the motherfucker banksta.
Who has the chart handy for the ARM resets. It may seem to be a moral vacuum decision and savers are punished but will this spare money market funds who are liquidating positions anyway? By next July we will know about reset failures and yes I remember the projects being razed later from Johnsons so called war on poverty. I am old enough to remember the grinding slum projects of metropolitan areas. As we witness countless millions losing work over the last decade we piss and moan about today? When this decade closes out the sun will still rise in the east. America has never been out of dept as a Nation since inflation policy strip the lower worker's purchasing power and interest rates push capital away to other regions. Until the Consumer's wake up why bother. My kids have no debt so far and if they are smart they will keep it painfully low to the frikkin beast.
My brother law called from central florida a house was listed 350K now 80K I do not have the address but would not consider it anyway.
This isn't "moral hazard," it's "moral breakdown." The irresponsible are rewarded, the prudent are not.
I wonder if Chase will forgive half the principal on my Subaru. I'm certainly underwater on it. How about half my credit card debt--NAV of that underlying asset is zee-roe, duh.
Smart move by the banksters! Just wait for round #2! DARK INVENTORY!
The banks are betting on higher interest rates.
I agree on that, when there FED Masters allow them. The cake is being baked by the honest workers and savers herded at there masters whip.
http://www.imf.org/external/np/seminars/eng/2011/res2/pdf/crbs.pdf