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Banks Stifle First Amendment, Attempt To Create A Tiered Market Of "Clients" And "Everyone Else" As Theflyonthewall.com Is Blocked From Instant Stock Research Reporting

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Thu, 03/18/2010 - 15:36 | 269599 Mongo
Mongo's picture

wtf!

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:20 | 269651 strike for retu...
strike for return to reality's picture

So long as the govt feels free to deny citizens life, liberty and the right to pursue happiness, there is no reason to expect the first ammendment to be respected.

For those capable of understanding high school physics there is only one conclusion, and it includes understanding that the US government has no respect for the lives of Americans (never mind those poor souls living in rest of the world).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJf7pWVyvIw

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:45 | 269667 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

The judge, like Obama et al., was simply bought by the banks.

Think anything legit is going on here?  Hell no.  White collar crime and extortion is alive and well.

 

Geithner needs to go to prison.

Thank you.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 20:08 | 269788 knukles
knukles's picture

Well, I tell my kids to STFup and winds up it don't do beans. 

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 21:12 | 269811 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

+++ Also post comments at +++

www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE62H4NJ20100318?feedType=RSS&feedName=businessNews&rpc=76

It is a reuters article about this situation.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 15:41 | 269608 Postal
Postal's picture

So if I don't like bad news about me, I can just claim a copyright of same and demand a cease publication order? Lovely.

Fly should team up with The Pirate Bay... ;)

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:08 | 269639 Assetman
Assetman's picture

Or Fly should put their servers somewhere near Zero Hedge's.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 15:45 | 269613 Popo
Popo's picture

> "We are confident that as banks seek to shut up more and more of the internet, that the fringe blogosphere will be next to be forcefully quieted"

 

I wouldn't be 'confident' about that at all.  Information wants to be free... and attempts at shutting up the blogosphere aren't likely to be very successful.

All it takes is one recipient of a "research" report to scan it and upload it to Scribd (or their own personal Wordpress site).   By the time Wall Street knows about it, it'll be too late.

 

Besides -- what Wall Street hasn't yet become afraid of -- and what they *should* be afraid of -- is false or doctored research reports bearing the names of big banks. 

 

 

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 15:46 | 269615 economessed
economessed's picture

OK, I get it.  Legalize insider trading.  We're just going to call it "proprietary research" to avoid the stigma of illegal activity.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:07 | 269684 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

+1

Am now thoroughly convinced there is no longer a Constitution in America. Seriously. Your first amendments rights were just violated. Hopefully Fly will appeal this unconstitutional decision. It is unlawful on many accounts including the first amendment and that the judges ruling needs to apply to ALL journalists and news agencies.

 

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 15:46 | 269617 seventree
seventree's picture

BY ORDER OF THE US DISTRICT COURT, YOU (YES YOU!) ARE INSTRUCTED TO STOP READING IMMEDIATELY AND SWITCH ON CNBC.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 15:49 | 269620 TraderMark
TraderMark's picture

This day in taxpayer outrage

 

The housing industry is going to get almost all the taxes paid in the housing boom years refunded

http://www.fundmymutualfund.com/2010/03/large-public-homebuilders-benefi...

 

$8.5B in taxes during bubble years; set to be refunded with $6B in the name of justice and the American way.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:01 | 269630 Mad Max
Mad Max's picture

Absolutely disgusting.

Yes, big business capture of con-gress is complete.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 18:19 | 269738 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Whilst the weary sheeple are on alert to the HCR mega-con, another wolf sneaks around from behind to loot the taxpayers.

Another disgusting bunch of mutherfukers cashing in on their investment in the corrupt 111th Gang of CongressCritters.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 15:58 | 269625 BlackBeard
BlackBeard's picture

That's fucked up.  Don't make Bloomberg bust out the warchest and sue the banks back.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:03 | 269632 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

It depends on the court decision. Hopefully it goes to trial and we see either:

1. We still have a functioning court system.

2. We have an owned court system. (starting to wonder about the Supreme Court which I think is cause for concern)

If 2. then it is pretty much game over. At that point. enjoy your gold those that are relying on it. But when the real anarchy begins, it may help a bit in the black market. Or you will be killed for it. 

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:06 | 269634 bingaling
bingaling's picture

God forbid a small retail investor has information to trade with -Same old rigging of the casino while destroying the Constitution.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:07 | 269636 10044
10044's picture

So how much do you think the judge was bribed at??

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 18:08 | 269735 Ripped Chunk
Ripped Chunk's picture

Any idiot can file suite. It remains to be seen where this goes once the "process" starts.

Although there may have been several bribes paid already for all we know?

 

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:17 | 269644 Roy Bush
Roy Bush's picture

OFFSHORE!  Set up a place in Iceland like wikileaks has done!  This being said, what is published by these banks is their property.  If flyonthewall.com is distributing their material without being a customer it is against the law.  What if you were a bookwriter and people were distributing your book without permission?  

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:18 | 269647 Reductio ad Absurdum
Reductio ad Absurdum's picture

If you are a small time investor, you should plan your investments/gambles to play out over a period of several weeks or, better yet, several months or years. If you do so, then the hour-to-hour fluctuations caused by the release of these "reports" will not affect you.

The ruling is correct in the sense that it cost the banks money to create the reports and they should be able to get compensation for their work.

The problem arises in the scale of the thing: big banks give proprietary information to large investment firms that then use the information *in tandem* to move the market over the short term. It doesn't matter in the slightest whether the information is valid or not -- it's just a way for the large players to coordinate their activity. If this were done behind the scenes it would be called insider trading and market manipulation.

Thus the question is not one of "free speech" but rather one of preventing such market manipulation in the first place.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:28 | 269656 Reggie Middleton
Reggie Middleton's picture

The ruling is correct in the sense that it cost the banks money to create the reports and they should be able to get compensation for their work.

But the banks are compensated through marketing transaction services and commissions, not through selling research. Thus this does not make much sense.

The real solution is for the retail and buyside populace to stop playing the games of the banks and demand real research and not marketing fluff. As someone who spends a fortune on generating the real stuff, I am perplexed as to how much people with real money pay attention to some of the dribble. Maybe I should private equity up and compete with the banks head on.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:22 | 269695 zarrmax
zarrmax's picture

Reggie,

I really like your site and I find your research in-depth and more often than not; correct (which is a huge nod in the relm of research). BUT...

"But the banks are compensated through marketing transaction services and commissions, not through selling research. Thus this does not make much sense."

You deserve a slap on the wrist for this one. Selling research is a revenue source well established and well defined. There is nothing wrong with IB's selling there research but there is something wrong with a third party coping & pasting their reports without paying for them (and profiting from it BTW)

Imagine if I stole your research and disseminated it without your permission and without paying you. What course of action would you take to make sure your hard work & rights are protected? 

 

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:35 | 269710 Manbarepig
Manbarepig's picture

Zarrmax - theres a big difference between a research report that you need to be permisisoned for/purchase through a vendor like TR or BBG (or directly from the banks) and what Flyonthewall does.  A headline stating the conclusion of the report is not the same as giving away the research, data, and supporting valuations that came to that conclusion. I don't think Reggie would have any problem with someone publicly announcing he concluded so-and-so about a subject if they STILL had to pay to get the content of the report from the source.

 

Long story short - Fly does NOT copy and past the content of reports wholesale. This suit has little to no merit or basis in reality.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 19:21 | 269768 zarrmax
zarrmax's picture

whether its the first sentence or the entire report, the document and it's conclusions fall under intellectual property rights. Fly must have permission to reproduce and that is really what the suit says. fly must wait to reproduce if they don't have permission; that's it. the judgement cites "17 reports" that were reproduced without permission not fly's entire operation.

Re-read the opening paragraph.... They admitted to reproducing the 17 reports without permission!

Fri, 03/19/2010 - 14:18 | 270379 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

**** ”Defendant violated the common law of New York by misappropriating Plaintiffs' commercially valuable, time-sensitive equity research recommendations and analyses” ****

 

At what point does “Fly On The Wall” bare responsibility for the information presented to “Fly On The Wall”… Ok, I will let that slide for the moment (although it is truly a hole anyone idiot could drive a semi-truck thru)…When this information is released? The readership then again dilutes the very nature of time sensitive and commercially viable… In the plainest terms the information has a shelf life for its value which is? “X” amount of hours from when it is released. Considering all of these Banks are funded thru public funds… The Fed’s 0% window and the publics expense… and the thru the Banks allowing their private information to be made public over and over again… the very best the court could rationalize would be an amount of time before reproduction in part or in whole to the very public that funds said banks.

 

**** “ Copying, distributing, displaying, or in any other manner publishing, selling, offering to sell or distribute (via any form of marketing or advertising), abstracting, broadcasting, making derivative works from, licensing, or transmitting, without prior written authorization by the Copyright plaintiffs, any portion of the copyrighted elements of any research reports generated by Copyright ” ****

 

Time sensitive? This is distributed and re-distributed and dare I say provided too… “Fly On The Wall” from sources within the Banks? The Banks have no control over their information delivery system’s and once again… the same Banks funded thru public monies… what to be private? They didn’t want to be private when the TARP monies and / or insert other here _____________ where flowing like a river, right?

 

**** “Disseminating in whatever form, via any medium now known or hereafter developed, whether to subscribers or anyone else, and whether for monetary consideration or otherwise “****

 

“Fly On The Wall” is re-producing in part? What has been provided to “Fly On The Wall” from Bank sources… No?

 

The fact that the information is made public to some extent by the Banks… whom then wish to Censor… or control who reads the information released? And these are publicly held and traded companies, Yes?

 

I would touch on what was mentioned already the SEC has no issues with this brand of internal wrangling? And the Court system, designed to protect the Law… at the Federal Level?

 

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution is part of the Bill of Rights. The amendment prohibits the making of any law "respecting an establishment of religion", impeding the free exercise of religion, infringing on the freedom of speech, infringing on the freedom of the press, interfering with the right to peaceably assemble or prohibiting the petitioning for a governmental redress of grievances.

 

And whistle blower type law has grounds as well? The Private information that is, by design to be made semi-public… that is leaked? To a news organization…

 

 

Look, it is the same shit… different day. If you are not a “AAA” Rated Corporation ( with human rights http://www.professorbainbridge.com/professorbainbridgecom/2010/01/the-corporation-is-a-legal-person-get-over-it.html ) with a built in Lobby (inside the beltway) and a first rate legal team… you are main street… welcome to the World of the little people and of the soon never to be televised class war (continuation really).

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 20:06 | 269766 Reggie Middleton
Reggie Middleton's picture

Thanks for the compliment, but your premise is wrong on this one. Let's keep it simple. Name 4 Ibanks that sell their research. Tell me how much they charge for it and how it is paid for. 

This is the truth of the matter. Sell side research is marketing for the banking, trading and sales departments. Plain and simple. It is not even research for if it was there would be significant conflicts - which of course there are - that would disincentivize many clients from doing business with the banks. Once we realize that it is marketing for other bank services and not true research, we will be on the same page.

You can hate on Eliot Spitzer all you want, he was dead right in his attack on the faux Chinese wall between bank's research, and sales/trading/banking departments. His work was considerably weakened after he was busted/brought down/or however you want to view it.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:20 | 269650 What_Me_Worry
What_Me_Worry's picture

Those poor, poor banks.  Can't these mega-conglomerate banks just run their corrupt business in peace without the meddling of those that want a fair and balanced financial system?

My thoughts and prayers will go out to all the TBTF's tonight.

We should all show our generosity and offer the banks affected by this atrocity free no-interest or very low interest loans until they feel better and let them say their assets are worth whatever they decide.

It would only be fair.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 18:23 | 269740 Missing_Link
Missing_Link's picture

I agree, Mr. Bernanke!

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:22 | 269653 crosey
crosey's picture

Viva Cabal!  And perpetuated by a NY judge?

Hiding in plain sight.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:28 | 269658 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

they act like their opinion is valuable to the public. too funny. only valueable to their trading desks the day before.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:36 | 269663 macfly
macfly's picture

Isn't it time for the revolution yet?

Wake me when the sheeple finally realize what is going on, and decide to do something about it.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:09 | 269686 strike for retu...
strike for return to reality's picture

Here is an exercise to try...

Ask sentient adults you know what they think about the US govt without giving away your own view before hand.  I've been doing this for a while, and I am amazed (and quite pleased) with what I am finally hearing.  (After years of hearing the MSM message.)

Of course, my results may not be reflective of all the country.  I tend to hang out with people who are capable of thinking.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:12 | 269688 macfly
macfly's picture

Here in LA the corruption in government has become common conversation, even amongst many of the Dem faithful, but I have no idea how informed the full length and breadth of the country are or care to be.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:44 | 269666 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I hope a bird shits on their hand and they rub their eyes and get conjunctivitis.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:51 | 269676 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Nobody's allowed to taste the snake oil unless they buy it first.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 16:53 | 269678 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Bank stock evaluations are worthless.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:12 | 269685 zarrmax
zarrmax's picture

I gotta to play devils advocate here.

Firms get paid for their research. You have to pay additional to disseminate said research to third parties. They admit using excerpts or whole documents infringing upon copyright laws. Moreover, the judgment cites "17 research reports" meaning the investment banks are not pissed about the service flyonthewall.com offers (they probably pay for access to certain reports) 
but that they disseminated proprietary information that they did not pay for.

The judge understands that you can't stop the flow of information so the court simply ruled that the defendant must delay the time sensitive data they receive and do not have permission to use so that the investment banks clients who pay for it can actually use it. If they want to use they data, they simply have to pay for it.

Makes sense to me....

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:13 | 269689 Captain Willard
Captain Willard's picture

The true libertarians among us have to defend their intellectual property. We shouldn't conflate the issue of prop trading with intellectual propery rights.

I have no problem with this ruling. I do have a problem with prop trading, preferential co-location, etc. And I have a major problem with deposit insurance.

Let's stay focused on the big, system-critical issues.

And Reggie: if the SEC forced mutual funds to unbundle execution and research costs, these idiot analysts would be forced out of business. Consumer would also be protected better. But, with respect, that is a separate issue.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:38 | 269715 tmosley
tmosley's picture

True libertarians defend property.  Information is not property.  Information in the mind is not a crime (ie there is no such thing as thoughtcrime), and speech is not a crime, therefore there is no part of the actions of flyonthewall that could be considered a crime.  That is, unless they broke into their office and/or server, or signed a nondisclosure agreement.  I'm thinking they didn't do either of those things.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 19:09 | 269761 zarrmax
zarrmax's picture

sad comment Tmosley....

Intellectual property (IP) is a term referring to a number of distinct types of legal monopolies over creations of the mind, both artistic and commercial, and the corresponding fields of law.[1] Under intellectual property law, owners are granted certain exclusive rights to a variety of intangible assets, such as musical, literary, and artistic works; discoveries and inventions; and words, phrases, symbols, and designs. Common types of intellectual property include copyrights, trademarks, patents, industrial design rights and trade secrets in some jurisdictions.

thought is not a crime....steeling ones copyrighted thoughts and reproducing them without consent is....

I'll say it again. the court cites "17 reports" that were reproduced. not flyonthewalls entire operation.
the ruling states that fly must have permission to reproduce otherwise they must wait before posting.

Fri, 03/19/2010 - 14:23 | 270386 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

No waiting? NEVER! Re-produce in any form or fashion... not make jokes about... no cartoons? NOTHING!

 


ORDERED that Defendant, its agents, servants, officers,

employees, and all those acting under its control and/or on its

behalf and/or in concert with it, are permanently enjoined and

restrained from:

1. Copying, distributing, displaying, or in any other

manner publishing, selling, offering to sell or distribute (via

any form of marketing or advertising), abstracting,

broadcasting, making derivative works from, licensing, or

transmitting, without prior written authorization by the

Copyright Plaintiffs, any portion of the copyrighted elements of

any research reports generated by Copyright Plaintiffs, whether

now existing or as may be created at any time in the futurei

 

 

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:13 | 269690 Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Whoever is "trading"/"investing" this "market" is an idiot anyways and deserve to lose their money. It's time to shut the goddamn rigged casino...er..."exchange" down, not participate in it. Non-participation in this corrupt system is the only way this den of vipers will ever die, i.e., when they run out of suckers to pillage. I, for one, won't miss reading the lunacy issued by the banksters. Good riddance.

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 21:44 | 269820 geopol
geopol's picture

http://allamericangold.com/ptg16mar10.mp3

 

Fast forward to 15:00 and get Trimtabs view.....We now have unmasked them...

 

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:16 | 269691 Manbarepig
Manbarepig's picture

TR and BBG were not only excluded for legal precendent, like you said, but because they have in depth business relationships with these banks. These same banks went to a "prior approval" process in 2006 to restrict who reads their Sell-Side Research (why would you want to restrict misleading propoganda pieces again?) which has been a headache for vendors. Another restriction on redistribution of content to the major data vendors would have dragged through legal for years. Beat up on the small kid, get the injunction, use it to ram through a deceision, turn around and cite case law at the big boys. Now where's my pitchfork again?

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:29 | 269702 poor fella
poor fella's picture

It's ok, soon all our borrowed 'rights' will be reappropriated, but on the positive side, it sure will be nice to meet everyone here at the FEMA camps for "belligerent" US citizens.

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-s3081/show

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 18:07 | 269733 strike for retu...
strike for return to reality's picture

Hmmm, does that mean that all the creative work in this country (I'm not talking about accounting) will start to be done at a government camp?

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:35 | 269709 AnonymousMonetarist
AnonymousMonetarist's picture

'We are confident that as banks seek to shut up more and more of the internet, that the fringe blogosphere will be next to be forcefully quieted, with or without the administration's help'

Bring it on.

 


Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:50 | 269721 Racer
Racer's picture

They want us to be like in those people in that film THX 1138!

Thu, 03/18/2010 - 17:53 | 269724 poor fella
poor fella's picture

Every time that movie and Soylent Green are on, I can't pull myself away. We're approaching a strange Phillip K. Dick type world vision..

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