Bernanke Starts Talking, Gold Surges Past $1,558

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Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:40 | 1221192 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

He no longer speaks... he opens his mouth and notes fly out inflating all prices of tangible goods.... He best hold on to his helli-me-chopper cause it'll be the only thing of value he'll have soon lol

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:40 | 1221210 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Benni Babba opens his mouth and the bid hears "Open Sesame"

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:50 | 1221229 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

If this was Seseme Street, Ben Bernamke would be Mr. Hooper!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Edit in:

<sarcasm on> or maybe BERT! <sarcasm off>

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:52 | 1221271 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Do you think I should sell now, Tex, before the price comes down?

<sarcasm on>  ;- )

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:00 | 1221335 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Junkies lovin' on the fiat shower (soon to be someone else's golden shower):

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:08 | 1221369 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

But yet the gold chart "bird" has been flipped to the wankers.  Feelin' good.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:01 | 1221356 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

My personal projection for gold is $3200, so long term I'm very bearish about it - as long as Bernanke keeps printing, gold and silver will probably rise.  I've done a lot of research on this, and my coin dealer has confirmed all my research, to. 

But I don't understand short term movements very well, and I have no idea how to read charts, so that is why i asked if maybe I should sell now. And when that guy said it was in a bubble, it really spooked me. Maybe it has reached a short term mountain top?  Then I can buy it when it falls into a dip. 

Plus, I have so much of my money in metals right now (I really piled into silver last month and this month!) that i'm a little low on extra cash right now, so I need to sell something so I can pay my employees. Maybe I'll sell some stocks instead.

But to be clear, long term, I think gold and silver will replace all paper currencies and will make me very wealthy. Short term, I don't know.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:41 | 1221537 cossack55
cossack55's picture

You MUST be VERY selective to who you listen to regarding PMs. One should be able to discern the shills after about two weeks following ZH closely.  To start, The Turd, Harvey Organ, Eric Sprott, Jim Rogers, maybe Peter Schiff.  Just my opinion. I am rarely incorrect.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:50 | 1221592 Goldenhands57
Goldenhands57's picture

So..you have the concept here Tex.. remember the Sunday school lesson... render unto Ceasar?.. Pay the taxes and other paper debts WITH paper. You could perhaps offer your employees some opportunity to be educated but in fact most folks will remain sheeple's. Don't be wrapped up in that, don't let it depress you because everyone has to make choices that fit their lives and comfort zones. So on the Stock sale. If we are indeed in the greatest wealth shift in history of this planet...and most here are pretty confident in this as a fact for the very reasons you explain..you answered your own question! There WILL be "noise" out there giving you all kinds of reasons to sell out of your PM. Larry Edelson is a good sounding board on cycle valuations and why PM is a requirement to protect your wealth base. There are others. The unbelievable amount of "digital paper" Currency out there is simply impossible to absorb back to where it was in 2002 or before. Because of that we HAVE reached the tipping point where the Dollar is dying a slow death via Inflationary Depression or Super Stagflation if you will; to the point we will not have the reserve currency as in years past. Think of Great Britian and the Pound Sterling in the late 1800's. They lost Reserve status and it was not long before very bad things started to happen in the UK. When the US Dollar looses that priveledge, where our currency is the medium of Contract exchange in Commodities, anyone without physical PM backing them for major cash purchases is going to get burned. Congradulations..you are now an astute enough investor to prevent this event in your Life! Charts are all good and well..and they do help..but the price FORWARD in a crisis is where you will be..not the prices in the past. We heard the same nonsense in 1979...Silver is junk..too much in the world...it's not good for anything but tableware...bla bla bla.. Yes..that may have been true..but what was also true was Interest rates were crushing any hope of a business or personal future. Gold and Silver again were safe harbors from the pain which was Inflation driven...and we are just now at the beginning of the largest Inflation of all time. This time it is World Wide. Stand pat..do not be concerned if there is a retraction. It will be short lived for reasons you already know now. Steep rise in prices of anything BEGS for Profit taking, so it is normal to see selling. It's actually healthy to see sell offs.   Not to worry..your in good company here. The time to sell ALL your PM is when you hear the words in National news "it CAN'T ever go down in price"..and also when there are Kiosks at every corner grocery store selling. Just so you'll know..$150 is conservative so therefore a decent guage. $3200 for Gold is possible. It depends how robust the feeding frenzy gets from those awaked from the coma (late to the party!).       

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:57 | 1221331 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

How dare you insult good old Mr. Hooper like that!  How dare you!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:43 | 1221219 UGrev
UGrev's picture

The man's voice is like that of the trumpets of Jericho... bringing the dollar down.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:54 | 1221316 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Mr. Sinclair say's the $ is headed to 53.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:43 | 1221238 True.North
True.North's picture

He wont be able to pay for the gas

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:50 | 1221267 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

He will... I'll have traded him 10 gallons stored in my garage for 14 tons of gold ;-)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:55 | 1221309 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

I doubt Ben could find 14 tons of gold that belongs to the Fed/treasury...But his banking pals certainly have more that 14 tons...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:15 | 1221404 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

Like they'd give him gold lol  He's expendable... especially when he 'turns off the printing machine' in june... they'll probably repo his helo at that point lol

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:44 | 1221559 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Weber has a good book delineating where the roughly 400 million ounces of US gold went between 1949 and 1974. Good as Gold.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:48 | 1221884 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Thanks for the reference. There is some interesting history behind that book...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:56 | 1221314 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"The Fed will elevate gold ownership from intelligent diversification to practical neccessity." - John Embry

"A choice must be made between the natural stability of gold and the honesty and intelligence of the members of government,..... I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, vote for gold." - George Bernard Shaw

"Gold and economic freedom are inseperable" - Alan Greenspan

"The fate of a nation are inseperable from the fate of its currency" - Milton Freedom

"Suspicion towards a currency, once awaken, develops insomnia" - James Dines

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:00 | 1221349 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

i agree with the statements, but can we find a fair value of gold?

 

need some opinions please,  1971 gold was $40.00 an oz, M3 was about 100 billion.  today gold should be at $6000 an oz because according to shadow stats  M3 today is 15,000 billion. its elementary math. but also the currency was only backed by 10 percent of gold. so if it were 100 percent it should be $60,000/oz.  under the radar there are many people including some at the IMF that they want a gold backed currency. i dont think they will get people to believe in a 10% convertability, i think it will be more likely than not 30-40% convertability and that might be hoping for the best. any opinions would be welcomed

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:06 | 1221370 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Finding a true value is simple: eliminate paper gold. The market will do the rest.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1221516 nevadan
nevadan's picture

As far as I can find the "official" price still recognised by the US government is $42.22 set back in the 70's.

In 1979 The Franklin Mint shipped a substantial number of Krugerrands on TWA. The shipment was lost by TWA, so the Franklin Mint sued to recover its loss at the actual market price of gold. In Franklin Mint Corp. vs. Trans World Airlines, the Supreme Court ruled that gold bullion values in commerce are limited to $42.22 an ounce.

http://www.munknee.com/2010/05/11410/

This valuation is supposed to satisfy customs agents also when carrying coinage across the border.  How long that will be remains to be seen.  Whatever ultimately happens, you and I will likely come up on the short end of things.  Just my opinion.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:31 | 1221811 akak
akak's picture

This valuation is supposed to satisfy customs agents also when carrying coinage across the border.  How long that will be remains to be seen. 

Actually, that valuation is of zero relevance to any custom agents, as gold is officially a non-monetary asset according to the US government, and there is absolutely NO need to have to declare ANY amount of gold to ANY US Customs agent --- with the only exception being if one were carrying more than $10,000 FACE VALUE, or in its converted foreign-exchange equivalent, in US gold Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf, or Austrian Philharmonic coins; in this case, then their nominal value as "currency" would make them eligible for declaration, but ONLY if their face values exceeded $10,000 US dollars.

If one were carrying gold bullion bars, Krugerrands, or other non-denominated gold in any form, it is NOT necessary to declare it --- one can (at least today) freely carry $10,000,000 in gold bullion with no requirement to declare it to any US Customs agents.  There is a great deal of misinformation (and disinformation?) going around on this topic, but I take the facts above directly from the US Customs website.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:56 | 1221917 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

LINK???

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:23 | 1221968 akak
akak's picture
What constitutes as "Negotiable Monetary Instruments" for currency reporting requirements?

Negotiable monetary instruments that must be reported by travelers or persons sending or receiving them (other then by electronic means by a banking concern) are:

  • Coin or currency from the U.S. and/or other countries, including gold coins[*]
  • Travelers Checks
  • Checks, promissory notes or money orders that can be cashed by the bearer. This includes checks or money orders made out to someone other than the bearer that are endorsed without restriction(i.e. for deposit only.), and incomplete checks, money orders, promissory notes that are signed but on which the name of the payee has been omitted (the "To" line is left blank)
  • Securities or stocks in bearer form

Monetary instruments that are made payable to a named person, but are not endorsed or which bear restrictive endorsements are not subject to reporting requirements, nor are credit cards with credit lines of over $10,000.

Gold Bullion is not a monetary instrument for purposes of this requirement. You can obtain the currency reporting form FinCEN 105 for more information.

 

[*My note: this refers to the face value of the coins, NOT their value as gold bullion.]


https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/332/kw/gold


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:07 | 1222111 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

akak,

Thanks- The CBP website actually has conflicting information (link in copied post below).  Since there are necessarily 2 countries (and legal authorities) involved in a border crossing, I took the easy way out last time and simply recomended doing homework.  The reason CBP is so dangerous is because they are intentionally vague and not subject to CAFRA protections on seizures per the Title 19 exclusion (see 2nd link below), and failure to fill out a FinCen105 can result in a CBP/ICE siezure.  I know government seizures tend to turn me into a long-winded tmosley after troll encounter, but that's not my intention -ending the kleptocracy is a lot closer. 

by Urban Redneck
on Thu, 04/28/2011 - 05:10
#1215041

 

US Citizens & Permanent Residents do and the additional forms make the basic 1040, + Schs A,B,C,D,E combo look easy.

Customs reporting is completely different though.  The problem with transporting unregistered & over-limit gold across borders is that it is legally subject to seizure by the governments on either side of the border.  However, in civilized and high-tax countries transportation counter intuitively tends to be free of the duties and taxes. 

Gold is very similar to lead and lead delivery vehicles, if you want to cross borders with it- there is a bunch of homework around the specifics of the jurisdictions to do before hand, but it almost eliminates the possibility of some very unpleasant State actions (uncivilized countries are a different story).   

I would recomend starting here and typing "gold" before crossing the US border with more than $10,000 (which is rapidly becoming a smaller & smaller quantity of gold) 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/list

 

CAFRA Post

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/two-questions#comment-1200498

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:04 | 1222342 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

akak and others above,

DANGER!  I believe that is incorrect!  I once took 40 oz Gold Eagles (back when the price was $900 / oz) out of the US, I asked Customs at the airport for the form to fill out, as the worth was $36,000.  The form asked to describe in details the "monetary instruments I was taking out.  It took sometime to get the form ("B-Team" on the weekend).  She called a supervisor to describe what I was taking out and the right form to fill out (like I said, the B-Team).  She talked for sometime with her boss, taking notes...

She then asked me the value of the gold I was taking out.  I told her: about $36,000.

She said: Right answer.

DO NOT take over $10,000 og gold out without reporting it, unless you have a written note from your LAWYER.

Danger!  I believe you must declare ANY gold, inc. Gold Eagles if market value is over $10,000.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:25 | 1222404 akak
akak's picture

DO NOT take over $10,000 og gold out without reporting it, unless you have a written note from your LAWYER.


DoChen, that is probably good advice, but what happened to you, and what you were told, is in direct conflict with what I was told, and with what the Customs website itself states.

The issue in your case was clouded because, while gold itself is conspicuously declared by US Customs to NOT be a "monetary instrument", you were carrying coins, which ARE a monetary instrument.  Had you been carrying gold bars, there would have been absolutely no need nor legal requirement for you to declare anything, just as there is no legal requirement for my sister to declare her $30,000 string of black pearls when she travels.

From everything that I was told, it is not the gold itself that require ANY declaration, but the fact that that gold may be in coin form that brings declaration into question.  And again, I am not the ultimate authority here by any means, but the information I received from US Customs was that it was the face value of the coins --- as they are, after all, officially legal tender --- that brings the possibility of mandatory declaration into play, NOT their market value.  After all, they do very specifically state that gold bullion is NOT a monetary instrument, and there is absolutely, unequivocally NO legal requirement to declare ANY amount of purely bullion gold.

Maybe there is a lesson here?  If you are planning on leaving the US with gold, or even suspect you might want to, take gold BARS and not coins!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 15:10 | 1224304 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

3 options (other than litigation to recover your PMs, or more likely their fiat equivalent, in the event of confiscation by Customs/DHS)

1) Seek written clarification from CPB before you travel

2) Hire a lawyer with specific expertise in this area 

3) Ship your PMs using a licensed and bonded common carrier

Background:

From the FinCen105 instructions: This report is required by 31 U.S.C. 5316 and Treasury Department regulations (31 CFR Chapter X)

Title 31 is banking regulations, under which gold is not a "monetary instrument" as is reflected in the text of the form and instructions on the CBP website, Title 19 is customs regulations, under which gold can be a "currency" (see § 141.86 etc.)

The FinCen105 is a Treasury form, written from a Treasury perspective, and used by Customs/DHS but the form serves multiple purposes in regards to government authorities and duties, under various laws and regulations.  A partial list follows:

31 CFR 500 OFFICE OF FOREIGN ASSETS CONTROL, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
31 CFR 401-406 SECRET SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
31 CFR 1010 FINANCIAL CRIMES ENFORCEMENT NETWORK, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

19 CFR 0-199 U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Department of Homeland Security, Department of the Treasury
19 CFR 200-299 United States International Trade Commission
19 CFR 300-399 International Trade Administration, Department of Commerce
19 CFR 400-499 U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Department of Homeland Security

Contraband Seizure Act
Export Administration Act (EAA)
Executive Order No. 12924 of August 19, 1994

19 U.S.C. 3007; Public Law 100-418
Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988
Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States

19 U.S.C. 1484
Tariff Act of 1930

15 USC 2101
Hobby Protection Act (HPA)

15 USC 291-300
Jewelers' Liability Act (Gold and Silver Articles)

12 USC 95a
Importation and Exportation of Gold and Silver

15 USC 294 et seq
Gold Labeling Act of 1976

18 USC 471 et seq
Importation of Counterfeit or Forged Obligations or Securities Act

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:31 | 1222078 nevadan
nevadan's picture

So by that definition  a one ounce gold eagle has a face value of $50 since it is so stated on the reverse.  By extension the official government valuation is no longer $42.22 and 200 one ounce coin would be the maximum allowed across the border.

I don't think that a person is free to carry large amounts of gold bullion without declaring  it to customs since the customs forms explicitly requires all articles aquired abroad and their monetary value declared.  The exemption is for currency less than $10k only.  Other examples in the Know before you go: Regulations for International Travel by US Residents include these quotes:

Also, anything you bring back that you did not have
when you left the United States must be “declared.”
For example, you would declare alterations made in a
foreign country to a suit you already owned, and any
gifts you acquired overseas p4

Items you intend to sell or use in your business,
including businesss merchandise that you took
out of the United States on your trip.  p10

Increased Duty Rates
Items from Certain Countries
Under what is known as its “301” authority, the
United States may impose a much higher than normal
duty rate on products from certain countries.
Currently, the United States has imposed a 100 percent
rate of duty on certain products of Austria, Belgium,
Denmark, Finland, France, The Federal Republic of
Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the
Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the Ukraine.
If you should bring more of any of these products
back with you than fall within your exemption or flat
rate of duty, (see below) you will pay as much in duty
as you paid for the product or products.
While most of the products listed are not the type of
goods that travelers would purchase in sufficient quantities
to exceed their exemption, diamonds from the
Ukraine are subject to the 100 percent duty and might
easily exceed the exemption amount. p18

Judging from this information I'd say carrying $10 million in gold bullion across the border without declaring it might generate some controversy if discovered.

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:01 | 1221943 oncebitten
oncebitten's picture

I seem to remember a poster on USA Gold back around 1997-2000 who predicted this and a final dollar denominated Gold price of around $30,000.  He called himself Another, there was also Friend of Another. Folks seemed to think they were Saudi.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:04 | 1222350 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Their successor is FOFOA, perhaps the best gold writer now out there.

fofoa.blogspot.com

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:13 | 1221395 Black Forest
Black Forest's picture

Let him speak 24/7/365.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:21 | 1221443 AZSovreign
AZSovreign's picture

As long as we are allowed to put him on mute....

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:38 | 1221194 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

and the tether should pull a correction in Ag shortly?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:38 | 1221196 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Why is silver flat?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:45 | 1221248 cossack55
cossack55's picture

It appears it is a PM tag team match.  Silver has led the way recently so TPTB are concentrating on taking silver down, meanwhile, silver tags gold and gold is kicking the Feds ass. Kind of funny.  Rather than "The Rock" we have "The Brick".

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:50 | 1221292 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Ali v Fraizer - Thrilla at the Crimex, isn't scheduled to conclude until the release of the daily report

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:51 | 1221299 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Who knows?  

Uncharted territory.

You best start believing in paid trolls: http://trolledbot.net/pix/1239.jpg

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:25 | 1221464 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Where do I sign up for the paid troll job?  Sound's like an easy gig that could be more lucrative than my current job.  Work from home, make your own hours.  Based on experience here and elsewhere, you don't even have to be too smart.  I'd love to make a few more bucks to throw into PMs and preps.  The best part is that you'd be doing the community a service.  Case in point, after reading a few of Methead's posts and the retorts, I betcha he's prompted more folks to buy physical than short paper!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:39 | 1221527 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Inquire at JPM.  I have a feeling they probably outsource the work, though.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:11 | 1222361 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Perhaps to Gaza.

I read during the 2008 primaries that the Owebama team worked with paid trolls from the Gaza Strip to trash Hillary.  Outsourcing cheap labor who spoke adequate English.  I have NO good references though.

"A Genuine Internet Rumor"

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:26 | 1222422 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

So, I visited JPMorgan Chase and did a job search...  No listings for "Internet Troll," "Shill," or "Propagandist"...  Hmmm.  This is turning out to be more difficult than I thought.

Is there anybody out there who can help a brother out? 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:53 | 1221308 French Frog
French Frog's picture

It's almost like what we've seen in stocks, now we're having 'sectors rotation' in PMs: first silver for a few weeks, now gold; it's all very bullish, i'm told

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:10 | 1221382 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Now if only the gold and silver stocks would catch up, it would be party time.

It won't be long and a good time to...

BTFD

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:56 | 1221636 Tim White
Tim White's picture

Gold says " it's MY turn, Bitchez!"

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:48 | 1221252 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Why do CBs only hold gold in their vaults and not silver, platinum, etc.?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:03 | 1221353 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Few CBs own silver. Storage of lots of silver would take lots of secure facilities. I suspect that the CBs of China and India do own some silver.

The future of silver is nothing but bright compared to fiat currencies... I see no reason to fret because silver is consolidating at a higher price now, and, we have seen the same in gold in the past.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:04 | 1221361 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

One reason is that gold is easily identifiable, not used much for manufacturing, has always been money, is coveted, preserves wealth in small amounts...just to name a few.

Gold is money is the most logical answer though.

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:52 | 1221623 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Win!  I should have ended my 'question' with an, /rhetorical question. ;-)

 

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