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Bernanke Starts Talking, Gold Surges Past $1,558

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Remember when every appearance of Obama and Geithner would send the market plunging before the institution of central planning? Well, we now have a new phenomenon: every time the Chairsatan opens his mouth gold surges. Pretty simple. The second Bernanke started delivering his prepared propaganda at the Community Affairs Research Conference, whose parallel chat session appears to have been overtaken by conscientious objectors, gold surged from the mid $1540s to $1,558. A few dollars here, a few dollars there, and pretty soon we are talking real money...

 

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Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:40 | 1221192 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

He no longer speaks... he opens his mouth and notes fly out inflating all prices of tangible goods.... He best hold on to his helli-me-chopper cause it'll be the only thing of value he'll have soon lol

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:40 | 1221210 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Benni Babba opens his mouth and the bid hears "Open Sesame"

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:50 | 1221229 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

If this was Seseme Street, Ben Bernamke would be Mr. Hooper!

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

Edit in:

<sarcasm on> or maybe BERT! <sarcasm off>

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:52 | 1221271 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Do you think I should sell now, Tex, before the price comes down?

<sarcasm on>  ;- )

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:00 | 1221335 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Junkies lovin' on the fiat shower (soon to be someone else's golden shower):

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:08 | 1221369 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

But yet the gold chart "bird" has been flipped to the wankers.  Feelin' good.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:01 | 1221356 Texas Gunslinger
Texas Gunslinger's picture

My personal projection for gold is $3200, so long term I'm very bearish about it - as long as Bernanke keeps printing, gold and silver will probably rise.  I've done a lot of research on this, and my coin dealer has confirmed all my research, to. 

But I don't understand short term movements very well, and I have no idea how to read charts, so that is why i asked if maybe I should sell now. And when that guy said it was in a bubble, it really spooked me. Maybe it has reached a short term mountain top?  Then I can buy it when it falls into a dip. 

Plus, I have so much of my money in metals right now (I really piled into silver last month and this month!) that i'm a little low on extra cash right now, so I need to sell something so I can pay my employees. Maybe I'll sell some stocks instead.

But to be clear, long term, I think gold and silver will replace all paper currencies and will make me very wealthy. Short term, I don't know.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:41 | 1221537 cossack55
cossack55's picture

You MUST be VERY selective to who you listen to regarding PMs. One should be able to discern the shills after about two weeks following ZH closely.  To start, The Turd, Harvey Organ, Eric Sprott, Jim Rogers, maybe Peter Schiff.  Just my opinion. I am rarely incorrect.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:50 | 1221592 Goldenhands57
Goldenhands57's picture

So..you have the concept here Tex.. remember the Sunday school lesson... render unto Ceasar?.. Pay the taxes and other paper debts WITH paper. You could perhaps offer your employees some opportunity to be educated but in fact most folks will remain sheeple's. Don't be wrapped up in that, don't let it depress you because everyone has to make choices that fit their lives and comfort zones. So on the Stock sale. If we are indeed in the greatest wealth shift in history of this planet...and most here are pretty confident in this as a fact for the very reasons you explain..you answered your own question! There WILL be "noise" out there giving you all kinds of reasons to sell out of your PM. Larry Edelson is a good sounding board on cycle valuations and why PM is a requirement to protect your wealth base. There are others. The unbelievable amount of "digital paper" Currency out there is simply impossible to absorb back to where it was in 2002 or before. Because of that we HAVE reached the tipping point where the Dollar is dying a slow death via Inflationary Depression or Super Stagflation if you will; to the point we will not have the reserve currency as in years past. Think of Great Britian and the Pound Sterling in the late 1800's. They lost Reserve status and it was not long before very bad things started to happen in the UK. When the US Dollar looses that priveledge, where our currency is the medium of Contract exchange in Commodities, anyone without physical PM backing them for major cash purchases is going to get burned. Congradulations..you are now an astute enough investor to prevent this event in your Life! Charts are all good and well..and they do help..but the price FORWARD in a crisis is where you will be..not the prices in the past. We heard the same nonsense in 1979...Silver is junk..too much in the world...it's not good for anything but tableware...bla bla bla.. Yes..that may have been true..but what was also true was Interest rates were crushing any hope of a business or personal future. Gold and Silver again were safe harbors from the pain which was Inflation driven...and we are just now at the beginning of the largest Inflation of all time. This time it is World Wide. Stand pat..do not be concerned if there is a retraction. It will be short lived for reasons you already know now. Steep rise in prices of anything BEGS for Profit taking, so it is normal to see selling. It's actually healthy to see sell offs.   Not to worry..your in good company here. The time to sell ALL your PM is when you hear the words in National news "it CAN'T ever go down in price"..and also when there are Kiosks at every corner grocery store selling. Just so you'll know..$150 is conservative so therefore a decent guage. $3200 for Gold is possible. It depends how robust the feeding frenzy gets from those awaked from the coma (late to the party!).       

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:57 | 1221331 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

How dare you insult good old Mr. Hooper like that!  How dare you!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:43 | 1221219 UGrev
UGrev's picture

The man's voice is like that of the trumpets of Jericho... bringing the dollar down.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:54 | 1221316 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Mr. Sinclair say's the $ is headed to 53.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:43 | 1221238 True.North
True.North's picture

He wont be able to pay for the gas

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:50 | 1221267 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

He will... I'll have traded him 10 gallons stored in my garage for 14 tons of gold ;-)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:55 | 1221309 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

I doubt Ben could find 14 tons of gold that belongs to the Fed/treasury...But his banking pals certainly have more that 14 tons...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:15 | 1221404 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

Like they'd give him gold lol  He's expendable... especially when he 'turns off the printing machine' in june... they'll probably repo his helo at that point lol

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:44 | 1221559 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Weber has a good book delineating where the roughly 400 million ounces of US gold went between 1949 and 1974. Good as Gold.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:48 | 1221884 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Thanks for the reference. There is some interesting history behind that book...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:56 | 1221314 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

"The Fed will elevate gold ownership from intelligent diversification to practical neccessity." - John Embry

"A choice must be made between the natural stability of gold and the honesty and intelligence of the members of government,..... I advise you, as long as the capitalist system lasts, vote for gold." - George Bernard Shaw

"Gold and economic freedom are inseperable" - Alan Greenspan

"The fate of a nation are inseperable from the fate of its currency" - Milton Freedom

"Suspicion towards a currency, once awaken, develops insomnia" - James Dines

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:00 | 1221349 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

i agree with the statements, but can we find a fair value of gold?

 

need some opinions please,  1971 gold was $40.00 an oz, M3 was about 100 billion.  today gold should be at $6000 an oz because according to shadow stats  M3 today is 15,000 billion. its elementary math. but also the currency was only backed by 10 percent of gold. so if it were 100 percent it should be $60,000/oz.  under the radar there are many people including some at the IMF that they want a gold backed currency. i dont think they will get people to believe in a 10% convertability, i think it will be more likely than not 30-40% convertability and that might be hoping for the best. any opinions would be welcomed

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:06 | 1221370 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Finding a true value is simple: eliminate paper gold. The market will do the rest.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1221516 nevadan
nevadan's picture

As far as I can find the "official" price still recognised by the US government is $42.22 set back in the 70's.

In 1979 The Franklin Mint shipped a substantial number of Krugerrands on TWA. The shipment was lost by TWA, so the Franklin Mint sued to recover its loss at the actual market price of gold. In Franklin Mint Corp. vs. Trans World Airlines, the Supreme Court ruled that gold bullion values in commerce are limited to $42.22 an ounce.

http://www.munknee.com/2010/05/11410/

This valuation is supposed to satisfy customs agents also when carrying coinage across the border.  How long that will be remains to be seen.  Whatever ultimately happens, you and I will likely come up on the short end of things.  Just my opinion.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:31 | 1221811 akak
akak's picture

This valuation is supposed to satisfy customs agents also when carrying coinage across the border.  How long that will be remains to be seen. 

Actually, that valuation is of zero relevance to any custom agents, as gold is officially a non-monetary asset according to the US government, and there is absolutely NO need to have to declare ANY amount of gold to ANY US Customs agent --- with the only exception being if one were carrying more than $10,000 FACE VALUE, or in its converted foreign-exchange equivalent, in US gold Eagle, Canadian Maple Leaf, or Austrian Philharmonic coins; in this case, then their nominal value as "currency" would make them eligible for declaration, but ONLY if their face values exceeded $10,000 US dollars.

If one were carrying gold bullion bars, Krugerrands, or other non-denominated gold in any form, it is NOT necessary to declare it --- one can (at least today) freely carry $10,000,000 in gold bullion with no requirement to declare it to any US Customs agents.  There is a great deal of misinformation (and disinformation?) going around on this topic, but I take the facts above directly from the US Customs website.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:56 | 1221917 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

LINK???

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:23 | 1221968 akak
akak's picture
What constitutes as "Negotiable Monetary Instruments" for currency reporting requirements?

Negotiable monetary instruments that must be reported by travelers or persons sending or receiving them (other then by electronic means by a banking concern) are:

  • Coin or currency from the U.S. and/or other countries, including gold coins[*]
  • Travelers Checks
  • Checks, promissory notes or money orders that can be cashed by the bearer. This includes checks or money orders made out to someone other than the bearer that are endorsed without restriction(i.e. for deposit only.), and incomplete checks, money orders, promissory notes that are signed but on which the name of the payee has been omitted (the "To" line is left blank)
  • Securities or stocks in bearer form

Monetary instruments that are made payable to a named person, but are not endorsed or which bear restrictive endorsements are not subject to reporting requirements, nor are credit cards with credit lines of over $10,000.

Gold Bullion is not a monetary instrument for purposes of this requirement. You can obtain the currency reporting form FinCEN 105 for more information.

 

[*My note: this refers to the face value of the coins, NOT their value as gold bullion.]


https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/332/kw/gold


Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:07 | 1222111 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

akak,

Thanks- The CBP website actually has conflicting information (link in copied post below).  Since there are necessarily 2 countries (and legal authorities) involved in a border crossing, I took the easy way out last time and simply recomended doing homework.  The reason CBP is so dangerous is because they are intentionally vague and not subject to CAFRA protections on seizures per the Title 19 exclusion (see 2nd link below), and failure to fill out a FinCen105 can result in a CBP/ICE siezure.  I know government seizures tend to turn me into a long-winded tmosley after troll encounter, but that's not my intention -ending the kleptocracy is a lot closer. 

by Urban Redneck
on Thu, 04/28/2011 - 05:10
#1215041

 

US Citizens & Permanent Residents do and the additional forms make the basic 1040, + Schs A,B,C,D,E combo look easy.

Customs reporting is completely different though.  The problem with transporting unregistered & over-limit gold across borders is that it is legally subject to seizure by the governments on either side of the border.  However, in civilized and high-tax countries transportation counter intuitively tends to be free of the duties and taxes. 

Gold is very similar to lead and lead delivery vehicles, if you want to cross borders with it- there is a bunch of homework around the specifics of the jurisdictions to do before hand, but it almost eliminates the possibility of some very unpleasant State actions (uncivilized countries are a different story).   

I would recomend starting here and typing "gold" before crossing the US border with more than $10,000 (which is rapidly becoming a smaller & smaller quantity of gold) 

https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/list

 

CAFRA Post

http://www.zerohedge.com/article/two-questions#comment-1200498

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:04 | 1222342 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

akak and others above,

DANGER!  I believe that is incorrect!  I once took 40 oz Gold Eagles (back when the price was $900 / oz) out of the US, I asked Customs at the airport for the form to fill out, as the worth was $36,000.  The form asked to describe in details the "monetary instruments I was taking out.  It took sometime to get the form ("B-Team" on the weekend).  She called a supervisor to describe what I was taking out and the right form to fill out (like I said, the B-Team).  She talked for sometime with her boss, taking notes...

She then asked me the value of the gold I was taking out.  I told her: about $36,000.

She said: Right answer.

DO NOT take over $10,000 og gold out without reporting it, unless you have a written note from your LAWYER.

Danger!  I believe you must declare ANY gold, inc. Gold Eagles if market value is over $10,000.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:25 | 1222404 akak
akak's picture

DO NOT take over $10,000 og gold out without reporting it, unless you have a written note from your LAWYER.


DoChen, that is probably good advice, but what happened to you, and what you were told, is in direct conflict with what I was told, and with what the Customs website itself states.

The issue in your case was clouded because, while gold itself is conspicuously declared by US Customs to NOT be a "monetary instrument", you were carrying coins, which ARE a monetary instrument.  Had you been carrying gold bars, there would have been absolutely no need nor legal requirement for you to declare anything, just as there is no legal requirement for my sister to declare her $30,000 string of black pearls when she travels.

From everything that I was told, it is not the gold itself that require ANY declaration, but the fact that that gold may be in coin form that brings declaration into question.  And again, I am not the ultimate authority here by any means, but the information I received from US Customs was that it was the face value of the coins --- as they are, after all, officially legal tender --- that brings the possibility of mandatory declaration into play, NOT their market value.  After all, they do very specifically state that gold bullion is NOT a monetary instrument, and there is absolutely, unequivocally NO legal requirement to declare ANY amount of purely bullion gold.

Maybe there is a lesson here?  If you are planning on leaving the US with gold, or even suspect you might want to, take gold BARS and not coins!

Sat, 04/30/2011 - 15:10 | 1224304 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

3 options (other than litigation to recover your PMs, or more likely their fiat equivalent, in the event of confiscation by Customs/DHS)

1) Seek written clarification from CPB before you travel

2) Hire a lawyer with specific expertise in this area 

3) Ship your PMs using a licensed and bonded common carrier

Background:

From the FinCen105 instructions: This report is required by 31 U.S.C. 5316 and Treasury Department regulations (31 CFR Chapter X)

Title 31 is banking regulations, under which gold is not a "monetary instrument" as is reflected in the text of the form and instructions on the CBP website, Title 19 is customs regulations, under which gold can be a "currency" (see § 141.86 etc.)

The FinCen105 is a Treasury form, written from a Treasury perspective, and used by Customs/DHS but the form serves multiple purposes in regards to government authorities and duties, under various laws and regulations.  A partial list follows:

31 CFR 500 OFFICE OF FOREIGN ASSETS CONTROL, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
31 CFR 401-406 SECRET SERVICE, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY
31 CFR 1010 FINANCIAL CRIMES ENFORCEMENT NETWORK, DEPARTMENT OF THE TREASURY

19 CFR 0-199 U.S. Customs and Border Protection, Department of Homeland Security, Department of the Treasury
19 CFR 200-299 United States International Trade Commission
19 CFR 300-399 International Trade Administration, Department of Commerce
19 CFR 400-499 U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement, Department of Homeland Security

Contraband Seizure Act
Export Administration Act (EAA)
Executive Order No. 12924 of August 19, 1994

19 U.S.C. 3007; Public Law 100-418
Omnibus Trade and Competitiveness Act of 1988
Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States

19 U.S.C. 1484
Tariff Act of 1930

15 USC 2101
Hobby Protection Act (HPA)

15 USC 291-300
Jewelers' Liability Act (Gold and Silver Articles)

12 USC 95a
Importation and Exportation of Gold and Silver

15 USC 294 et seq
Gold Labeling Act of 1976

18 USC 471 et seq
Importation of Counterfeit or Forged Obligations or Securities Act

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:31 | 1222078 nevadan
nevadan's picture

So by that definition  a one ounce gold eagle has a face value of $50 since it is so stated on the reverse.  By extension the official government valuation is no longer $42.22 and 200 one ounce coin would be the maximum allowed across the border.

I don't think that a person is free to carry large amounts of gold bullion without declaring  it to customs since the customs forms explicitly requires all articles aquired abroad and their monetary value declared.  The exemption is for currency less than $10k only.  Other examples in the Know before you go: Regulations for International Travel by US Residents include these quotes:

Also, anything you bring back that you did not have
when you left the United States must be “declared.”
For example, you would declare alterations made in a
foreign country to a suit you already owned, and any
gifts you acquired overseas p4

Items you intend to sell or use in your business,
including businesss merchandise that you took
out of the United States on your trip.  p10

Increased Duty Rates
Items from Certain Countries
Under what is known as its “301” authority, the
United States may impose a much higher than normal
duty rate on products from certain countries.
Currently, the United States has imposed a 100 percent
rate of duty on certain products of Austria, Belgium,
Denmark, Finland, France, The Federal Republic of
Germany, Greece, Ireland, Italy, Luxembourg, the
Netherlands, Portugal, Spain, Sweden and the Ukraine.
If you should bring more of any of these products
back with you than fall within your exemption or flat
rate of duty, (see below) you will pay as much in duty
as you paid for the product or products.
While most of the products listed are not the type of
goods that travelers would purchase in sufficient quantities
to exceed their exemption, diamonds from the
Ukraine are subject to the 100 percent duty and might
easily exceed the exemption amount. p18

Judging from this information I'd say carrying $10 million in gold bullion across the border without declaring it might generate some controversy if discovered.

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:01 | 1221943 oncebitten
oncebitten's picture

I seem to remember a poster on USA Gold back around 1997-2000 who predicted this and a final dollar denominated Gold price of around $30,000.  He called himself Another, there was also Friend of Another. Folks seemed to think they were Saudi.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:04 | 1222350 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Their successor is FOFOA, perhaps the best gold writer now out there.

fofoa.blogspot.com

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:13 | 1221395 Black Forest
Black Forest's picture

Let him speak 24/7/365.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:21 | 1221443 AZSovreign
AZSovreign's picture

As long as we are allowed to put him on mute....

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:38 | 1221194 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

and the tether should pull a correction in Ag shortly?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:38 | 1221196 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Why is silver flat?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:45 | 1221248 cossack55
cossack55's picture

It appears it is a PM tag team match.  Silver has led the way recently so TPTB are concentrating on taking silver down, meanwhile, silver tags gold and gold is kicking the Feds ass. Kind of funny.  Rather than "The Rock" we have "The Brick".

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:50 | 1221292 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Ali v Fraizer - Thrilla at the Crimex, isn't scheduled to conclude until the release of the daily report

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:51 | 1221299 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Who knows?  

Uncharted territory.

You best start believing in paid trolls: http://trolledbot.net/pix/1239.jpg

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:25 | 1221464 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Where do I sign up for the paid troll job?  Sound's like an easy gig that could be more lucrative than my current job.  Work from home, make your own hours.  Based on experience here and elsewhere, you don't even have to be too smart.  I'd love to make a few more bucks to throw into PMs and preps.  The best part is that you'd be doing the community a service.  Case in point, after reading a few of Methead's posts and the retorts, I betcha he's prompted more folks to buy physical than short paper!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:39 | 1221527 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Inquire at JPM.  I have a feeling they probably outsource the work, though.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:11 | 1222361 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Perhaps to Gaza.

I read during the 2008 primaries that the Owebama team worked with paid trolls from the Gaza Strip to trash Hillary.  Outsourcing cheap labor who spoke adequate English.  I have NO good references though.

"A Genuine Internet Rumor"

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:26 | 1222422 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

So, I visited JPMorgan Chase and did a job search...  No listings for "Internet Troll," "Shill," or "Propagandist"...  Hmmm.  This is turning out to be more difficult than I thought.

Is there anybody out there who can help a brother out? 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:53 | 1221308 French Frog
French Frog's picture

It's almost like what we've seen in stocks, now we're having 'sectors rotation' in PMs: first silver for a few weeks, now gold; it's all very bullish, i'm told

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:10 | 1221382 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Now if only the gold and silver stocks would catch up, it would be party time.

It won't be long and a good time to...

BTFD

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:56 | 1221636 Tim White
Tim White's picture

Gold says " it's MY turn, Bitchez!"

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:48 | 1221252 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Why do CBs only hold gold in their vaults and not silver, platinum, etc.?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:03 | 1221353 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Few CBs own silver. Storage of lots of silver would take lots of secure facilities. I suspect that the CBs of China and India do own some silver.

The future of silver is nothing but bright compared to fiat currencies... I see no reason to fret because silver is consolidating at a higher price now, and, we have seen the same in gold in the past.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:04 | 1221361 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

One reason is that gold is easily identifiable, not used much for manufacturing, has always been money, is coveted, preserves wealth in small amounts...just to name a few.

Gold is money is the most logical answer though.

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:52 | 1221623 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

Win!  I should have ended my 'question' with an, /rhetorical question. ;-)

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:12 | 1221379 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

As someone else said, gold is pure money.  It is the reason we have the concept of money.  Without gold, I am not sure we would have developed beyond a barter system.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:48 | 1221259 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

wondering the same thing myself.  i'm assuming that whatever means TPTB posses to depress the PM prices, they may be somewhat limited in their ability to act on all the PM's at once.  Today is Ag's turn to be depressed...and Au runs away with the fucking show.  Assuming it'll be no more than a time lag before Ag follows suit...so buy ahead of the curve.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:19 | 1221426 gorillaonyourback
gorillaonyourback's picture

i was reading markewatch today and it was crazy all the stories about the silver being in a bubble, NOT GOLD ONLY SILVER.  golds breaking out and silver is just maintaining.  iwas thinking since silver is in backwardation they are trying to deliver silver at lowest price they can at the end of the month so they are using all the propaganda they can to keep the silver price down, they did raise the limits on silver twice in a week right? any thoughts about the propaganda,  maybe a new propaganda trade can be spotted

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:09 | 1221682 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

I should stress that my ability to understand the finer points and mechanics of the silver market is somewhat limited.  the propaganda seems like the best indicator that silver really is in the position of serving as an achilles heal for the banking system.  But it's too late to effect the Ag price in time to promote delivery calls, right?  Tis Friday, and Ag is still under $50...so I'm expecting the gains to be realized next week.

have we turned the corner where now, when the talking heads spread BS to promote their agenda, instead of their propaganda creatign the desired effect among the public the sheeple are starting to catch on the BS instead?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:48 | 1221269 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

Gold, much bigger market, can't be manipulated as easily, i.e responsive in real time to news.  But I'll wager the Silver spring is still being compressed as I write.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:55 | 1221307 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

thank you

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:19 | 1221422 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

and that spring looks like it's decompressing . . . right . . . about . . . now.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:29 | 1221486 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

I mean . . . . now!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:56 | 1221635 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

I mean . . . NOW! 

(To hell with this market timing BS, just keep buying, it'll all turn out good.)

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:08 | 1221696 KinorSensase
KinorSensase's picture

and my friends can't figure out why this is more fun than watching sports (no dis on sports)...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:57 | 1221640 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

No, now!  I'm mean.......now!   No, then!  :)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:59 | 1221939 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

and the dip gets bought hard into the close.  Shorts had a looonnnggg week.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:09 | 1222114 Shell Game
Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:54 | 1221318 The They
The They's picture

It's exhausted.  Wouldn't you be too after climbing a mountain?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:01 | 1221343 DosZap
DosZap's picture

The Parabolic rise has scared the mkt, and everyone is calling for a major correction.

So, get ready for one.

Bottom line: Trying to make Longs dump positions.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:02 | 1221345 Banjo
Banjo's picture

Xibalba: if you think this is flat just be prepared for silver to correct. IF... If the Bernanke stops with QE2 and other monetization. It will be like GFC where all markets take a MASSIVE hit.

Of course IF this happens and when there is blood in the street time to back the truck up and load up on metals. INCLUDING GOLD!

The silver mania is great I do think people should hold at least 25-30% Gold allocation. (both physical holdings) Once you do a realisation sweeps over you just how concentrated Gold wealth is.

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:38 | 1221197 shockadelika
shockadelika's picture

It's just "transitory"

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:39 | 1221202 Dreadker
Dreadker's picture

lol and "you people" need to buy ;-)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:41 | 1221198 strannick
strannick's picture

'Keep on talkin to the free world...'

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:41 | 1221203 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

really is hilarious.  the entire world is laughing at that piece of shit.

 

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:44 | 1221205 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

My honey NatGas is a hummin as well.

Corn up 5% and oil up a lick so higher gas prices.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:47 | 1221250 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Ive been noticin that natty gas stuff lately also. I already been in the cornfied trying to hedge my feed bill. Damn hedge is outdoing my livestock.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:54 | 1221312 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Lately sugar has been on my radar. I just got an eye on it right now though. I'm such an evil speculator.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:19 | 1221357 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Yes you are.lol You guys are going to get all my profits back this summer when I have to fire up the Big Green Monster. I will just as well have shot a cow right between the eyes every time I have to fill it up. Just when you think your out of the woods and going to make it here comes another train. Im gettin to old for this shit. Hope your sugar works out.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:42 | 1221206 gwar5
gwar5's picture

"I think the waterfall moment for the USD could well be the Bernanke press conference." -- James Turk.

"Every time Bernanke opens his mouth, everybody starts selling everything American." -- Peter Schiff.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:40 | 1221208 redpill
redpill's picture

Golds just gone plaid, ludicrous speed go!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:05 | 1221368 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Gold was above $1560 just prior to 2 pm... Print Ben, Print!...and Talk!

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:57 | 1221654 SME MOFO
SME MOFO's picture

I'd just like to point out that $1555 per troy oz for gold is a very special number.

at that price, an easily portable kilo bar is worth almost exactly 50,000$

this is worth holding said bar in your hand and reflecting

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:23 | 1221774 TheWizard
TheWizard's picture

Love the avatar redpill

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:42 | 1221211 They_Live
They_Live's picture

I've always had this problem with buying gold, every time I buy it a couple of days later I wish I'd bought more. I call it "Gold Bug's Regret".

February I spent nearly two months salary on mainly gold, some silver. That'll cure my "Gold Bug's Regret" I thought.

 

I was wrong. 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:40 | 1221214 MrPook
MrPook's picture

Whatever we do we have to keep these people talking

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:47 | 1221264 WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

Give them a load of Cocaine

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:54 | 1221317 MrPook
MrPook's picture

Fine plan. They give us gold, we give them cocaine and the price goes up.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:09 | 1221373 Re-Discovery
Re-Discovery's picture

They're saving it all for the guy working the printing press.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 21:05 | 1222868 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Peruvian marching (printing!) powder FTW! :>D

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:43 | 1221216 aVian
aVian's picture

soon the dollar tards will be saying that gold crashed to 1,558  lol

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:41 | 1221218 Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

On a long enough timeline the value of all fiat currencies is transitory.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:48 | 1221258 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

I thought he said trans are horny

                                  - SEC

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:57 | 1221319 I Got Worms
I Got Worms's picture

This comment needs more love. Respect.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:44 | 1221221 smeagol
smeagol's picture

c'mom Tyler give Schiff the credit on this one who said exactly the same thing earlier in an utterly hilarious interview on RT:

Peter Schiff Comment on FED Press Conf. Apr 28 2011

Quote "If you see the gold price rally theres a good chance Bernanke is speaking somewhere" Peter Schiff.

(Link embedded)

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:46 | 1221239 UGrev
UGrev's picture

Chicken meet egg.. egg meet chicken.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:42 | 1221226 Out9922
Out9922's picture

Remember there was a decent fight on for 1500.  Once it broke it, slingshot

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:33 | 1221509 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

It was once said that $1000 was too high and it would never get there.  I remember that very well.  And the same is going on in both metals now.  "It can't" and "never" are words to live by.

"The dollar can't die as the reserve currency."

"The markets can't crash."

"Real estate never goes down nation wide."

"There will never be a gold standard."

Time will tell.

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:57 | 1221659 akak
akak's picture

Noureil Roubini, 2010: "The idea of gold going to $1500 .... is nonsense."

Jon Nadler, 2009:  "The US dollar's role as the world's reserve currency is secure for many years to come."

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:42 | 1221227 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Going vertical in Euros also

1050.70

Sweet Jesus

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:54 | 1221301 Butchery101
Butchery101's picture

At last, AT LAST !

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:17 | 1221413 eddiebe
eddiebe's picture

At last, yes, but don't get lulled into a false sense of security! The banksters are still wanting to get all the gold. Which means serious whipsaw ahead.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:43 | 1221230 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Wow, I don't recall ever seeing a day where silver was left behind like this.  Gold, platium, and palladium all up over a percent, normally silver would be up three percent or more today.

But then, that would put it above $50, wouldn't it.  Can't have that...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:46 | 1221260 redpill
redpill's picture

This is a good consolidation spot for silver.  Firm it up right below $50 and then in a few days, boom, up we go.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:47 | 1221265 cossack55
cossack55's picture

T, see above and let me know your thoughts in your brutal, but honest, manner. Thank ya.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:51 | 1221274 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

It MUST be a conspiracy.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:55 | 1221320 Tortfeasor
Tortfeasor's picture

It MUST be a bubble.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:56 | 1221326 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yes, because I'm sure you don't care to pay any attention to patterns or changes therein, as you have already set your opinion, and will stick to it no matter what new evidence comes to light.

Because you are a paid troll: http://trolledbot.net/pix/1239.jpg

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 13:57 | 1221332 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Still too afraid to say what price silver should be and why?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:17 | 1221415 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You never asked me any such thing.

But you are now, so I'll tell you since you are such a stupid troll.

The price of silver in dollars does not matter, because the dollar is failing.  The price of silver in gold is the only thing that matters.  Silver will reach and exceed parity with gold as the industrial users panic soon after the collapse of the COMEX and the LBMA (not necessarily in that order).  They will bid literally ANY price to get a hold of silver.  Most electronics use some silver, but the fraction of their cost is so low that a hundredfold rise in silver will only all a hundred buck to a thousand dollar TV.

I am on record saying this many times in the past.

Now, I have answered your dumb question so you can answer mine.  What nation do you live in?  If you refuse to answer, you prove that you are a liar.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1221513 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Let's keep the discussion on topic.  Silver.

Why will silver go up in value relative to the dollar?  Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1221529 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Ok, so you admit to being a liar.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:39 | 1221538 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Why will silver go up in value relative to the dollar?  Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?

 

Don't coward out on me now.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:51 | 1221595 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Now now now, Clarice, I answered you question, so now it is my turn.

You shall answer before you get anything out of me, you lying cowardly shill loser.

WHAT NATION DO YOU CURRENTLY RESIDE IN?

This is not a hard, or an intrusive question.  The only reason you don't answer is because you will catch yourself in a lie.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:56 | 1221625 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Aren't you the self-proclaimed silver expert????

 

STAY ON TOPIC.

 

Why will silver go up in value relative to the dollar?  Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:01 | 1221670 tmosley
tmosley's picture

This is very much ON TOPIC, Clarice.  You seem to forget that you told everyone that you sold all of the silver you bought in 2001 this week with the intention of buying it back more cheaply later, but you didn't take into account the tax implications.  You continue to advise anyone who will listen that they should get out now, "before the crash", but you don't take their actual situations into account.  You seem to have one interest, and one interest only, to separate people from their silver.

But then, we all have our own agendas, don't we?  If you want to ask another question, you have to answer mine first.  Give and take, you see.  So tell us all WHAT NATION DO YOU CURRENTLY RESIDE IN?  After you answer, I will answer your question.  

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:03 | 1221678 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

I doubt my nationality has any effect on the price of silver.

Sooooooo, since we are ALL interested in silver....

Why will silver go up in value relative to the dollar?  Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:05 | 1221685 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No.  No-one here is interested in silver.  We are only interested in your evasion.  

Nothing shows you have something to hide more than this type of blatant evasion.

What are you hiding, boy?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:30 | 1222385 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

tmosley, I vote he lives in Gaza.

Cheap paid trolls for hire who speak adequate English.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 19:09 | 1222539 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Trolls come and go, but PM's abide...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:11 | 1221703 akak
akak's picture

Allow me:

Why will silver go up in value relative to the dollar?

Because the dollar, like every fiat currency without exception, is constantly depreciating in value due to the machinations of the kleptocratic elite who parade under the name of "central bankers".

Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?

In the long term, no, of course not, because the dollar will never stop going down; see #1.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:25 | 1221765 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Wow, thank you.  At least you have the balls to answer while mosley cowers behind you.

In the long-term, history is certainly on your side.  Especially with the dollar having lost 95% of it's purchasing power in the last 100 years or so.  But I notice that you specified "long-term". 

Does silver goes up in the short-term because of dollar printing?  Or is there more to it than that?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:25 | 1221784 tmosley
tmosley's picture

More questions, but no answers.  You fucking swine.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:29 | 1221810 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Coward.

Akak can stay on topic AND has the balls to have a rational discussion.  Yet you fear a mere thoughtful discourse on the subject.  WHY?

It's not too late to have a rational discussion that helps everyone.....

Does silver goes up in the short-term because of dollar printing?  Or is there more to it than that?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:37 | 1221838 akak
akak's picture

Does silver goes up in the short-term because of dollar printing?  Or is there more to it than that?

Yes, of course, there is more to it than that --- in the SHORT term. 

It should also be pointed out that there may well be other factors which could lead to changes in the valuation of silver, or anything else, in the long term as well, aside from the ongoing depreciation of fiat currency --- such as the possible (ongoing?) effective remonetization of silver.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:42 | 1221861 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

So depreciation of the currency is a long-term force while other *smaller* items may have a temporary force on the price?

Are you familiar with Trigonometry?  I view the 100 year slope of Gold or silver as a Sine Curve going up a hill.  Sure it goes up and down in the short term, but long term the trend is definitely up.

Is that a statement you can agree with?  Or does it not seem correct?

 

BTW short-term is a relative term for me, in this case I am comparing short-term to 100 years.  Although I am unsure what your definition of short-term is for purpose of our discussion.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:47 | 1221893 akak
akak's picture

I don't think a sine curve is an appropriate analogy, as it is a of a cyclical nature, and symmetric, with a falling slope mirroring the rising slope before it.  Such is not the nature of the decline of the value of fiat currencies, which progress in only one direction.

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:02 | 1221926 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

I am not sure if I made that very clear.  I consider the "up a hill" movement of PM's to be analagous to the 100 year depreciation trend of Bern-bucks.

The sine wave movements are more analagous to the short-term affects that other things may have on currency or metals.

Sort of like a straight line sloping upwards, but then add in short-term factors or externalities that turn the straight line into an upward sloping sine-wave.

Does that make more sense, or would you still disagree?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:37 | 1221840 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You can call me a coward all you want, but that won't change the fact that you are a liar who BY ADMISSION is giving BAD ADVICE to people in tax situations that are different from yours.

And of course silver goes up for other reasons.  Supply is short, demand is growing.  Prices have been suppressed for years if not decades.

Now between us, akak and I have answered FIVE of your questions.  Now answer ONE of ours.

WHAT IS YOUR CURRENT NATION OF RESIDENCE?

But you won't answer, because you are a filthy liar with an agenda that involves impoverishing those who take your shitty advice.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:46 | 1221877 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

I responded to Akak's answer above.  If you can be civil, then I would be glad to join you into the discussion.

BTW, I agree with all of your silver answers above.  They too are long-term drivers of the price along side depreciation of the currency.  Hell, I would even call them "mid-term" drivers as well.  Do you consider there to be any short-term drivers on the silver price?

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:16 | 1222390 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Until he tells us, it is GAZA!

LOL...

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 20:41 | 1222796 fiddler_on_the_roof
fiddler_on_the_roof's picture

Go get him Hannibal . Don't let off your bite - let your teeth sink in him.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 21:10 | 1222886 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

    lim   1Toz/$FRN =∞

$FRN -> 0

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:43 | 1221549 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Why will silver go up in value relative to the dollar?  Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?

 

There's a hundred years worth of data which leads to an unmistakable conclusion to that query. You might want to review it.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:42 | 1221562 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Humor me.

So why will it go up relative to the dollar?  Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:53 | 1221627 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

Humor me. Read a book.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:58 | 1221650 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

It's a simple question.  Why is mosley so afraid to answer it?  It's on topic and I'm sure all of the new silver investors would LOVE the knowledge.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:03 | 1221679 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You keep saying I am afraid, but you have continually failed to answer an extremely simple, factual question--what nation do you currently reside in?  You have asked me your little question, and I answered.  Now it is your turn.  

But you are too afraid of being found out.  What's wrong, will you lose your job if you are found out one more time?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:24 | 1221780 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

The biggest, baddest, smartest silver bull here is too afraid to answer....

 

Why will silver go up in value relative to the dollar?  Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?

 

I wonder why?

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:41 | 1221854 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

I wonder why?

Because the question has already been answered at least a hundred times on ZH in the past year?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:48 | 1221881 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Your speculation skills are poor.  But thanks for trying.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:55 | 1221925 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uhh, actually he's right.

Still waiting to hear about where you are from.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:59 | 1221933 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Wow, much better.  Thanks for being civil.

To make things clear, I never did say that I do not pay capital gains, I only said that in some countries you do not have to pay capital gains.  Hong Kong is an example of such a heaven, er haven.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:17 | 1221980 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uh huh, yeah right.  You said exactly that in order to sidestep my point about you having to pay a huge amount of taxes on your fictional physical silver position which you sold.

Look, just leave.  Go stand on the porch and come back with a new user name, if you must.  Your credibility is GONE.  As in MAJORLY NEGATIVE.

I won't let anyone forget about your lies if you stay.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 16:38 | 1222034 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

You just can't stay on topic or civil can you?

And yet here you still accuse me of lies.  Name ONE lie.

My point in that capital gains statement was that capital gains are different all over the world.

 

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 17:37 | 1222247 tmosley
tmosley's picture

1. You lied about buying gold at the absolute bottom.

2. You lied about buying silver at the absolute bottom.

3. You lied about ever owning physical silver.

4. You lied about not paying taxes (now you say you didn't say that, but it was heavily implied, and when I called you on it you refused to tell me what country you live in--which you continue to do).

 

In addition to the above lies, you have been wrong on every call you have made since you got here, except the wishy-washy "Silver might go to $60 from here" one, which might yet happen.

Further, you are incredibly irresponsible in giving "advice" to a bunch of Americans without even knowing ANYTHING about the tax laws in America.  Or Europe for that matter.  You ignore transaction costs and tax liabilities that would force a long term holder of silver to wait for a 50-70% correction prior to being able to make a profit in terms of ounces of silver held.

Do you understand now why you are so hated?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 18:18 | 1222401 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

He's from Gaza.

According to current Muslim doctrine, it is OK to lie to unbelievers.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:22 | 1221449 CrockettAlmanac.com
CrockettAlmanac.com's picture

.77 oz silver = $1. 'Cuz it's the law.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:05 | 1221352 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Oh yeah, and your lie that I bought June Puts.  You have yet to find this alleged post I made claiming that, EVEN though I said I would leave FOREVER if you did.

You call me the liar and yet here you are.....spreading lies.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:22 | 1221385 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You sure are self centered.  You never asked me to do any such thing.  And you never said that that I could see.

I made a brief attempt to find the post, but the first thread I clicked on, you had 61 god damn posts on the first page of a five page thread, and you have posted in dozens of silver threads.  No thanks.

But you can feel free to get out, as you have worn out your welcome to the extent that most people just ignore you.  Only those such as myself, who feed on delicious troll blood, even bother with you.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:37 | 1221517 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

So you admit making the claim but cannot find this post.

By every definition I know of, that makes YOU the liar.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:40 | 1221535 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uh, no, it means I'm not going to let you waste my time.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:43 | 1221554 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

No it means you're a liar.

 

So you can say anything you want about me and not need proof.  That's how you work.  Gotcha.  Who's the liar again?

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 14:51 | 1221608 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

So let's put this in perspective. You're wasting an enormous amount of time and energy in an attempt to dominate him for what ends and what reward?

Even if you do crack him and dominate him and he sells his silver what good does it do you? Is it going to put your shitty puts in the money? No cause after you crack him you have to crack me and cooper and akak and max keiser and thousand and thousands and thousands of fed up people who won't let go of silver.

Fri, 04/29/2011 - 15:02 | 1221657 Dangertime
Dangertime's picture

Perhaps you should ask him why he lies and defames me.

Or perhaps you should ask him ......."Why will silver go up in value relative to the dollar?  Will it ever stop going up vs the dollar?"  

He refuses to answer that ON-TOPIC question.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!