Bert Dohlmen On Gold And Precious Metals Manipulation

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Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:25 | 820199 TheGreatPonzi
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The manipulation is less in the market than in the medias.

Bloomberg is running headlines right now that reach the propaganda level of Da Pravda.

The last one is incredible, and tries to make gold bugs responsible for African injuries and deaths in gold mines.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:13 | 820291 trav7777
trav7777's picture

the "blood diamond" thesis?  Amazing, then, that there is no civil war at Argyle.  And, there appear to be no gold civil wars in Oz or Russia or anywhere else either.

And while I'm up, why is Africa constantly an aid recipient and not a provider?  Why don't we ever need food aid?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:21 | 820301 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Wait, sly little fucker,


"why is Africa constantly an aid recipient and not a provider?"




Cause we have Food Stamps bitchez. 

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 13:50 | 821396 TDoS
TDoS's picture

Why is it that the privileged beneficiaries of exploitation never care to know anything about this exploitation?


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:30 | 820208 unwashedmass
unwashedmass's picture


bloomberg has lost all credibility. note that today they did not run one word about the latest JPM whistleblower. not a peep.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:46 | 820246 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

  Bloomerg had  on its banner all day something like ..."50% of Bankers would quite their job if Bonuses dissapoint".

     I double dog dare all of them to quite.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:16 | 820293 Rahm
Rahm's picture

The world would be a better place if 50% of Bankers would 'quite' their jobs.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:25 | 820307 cosmictrainwreck
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long as they re-quite all their prior bonuses

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 09:15 | 820539 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

And be quiet about it.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:36 | 820220 putbuyer
putbuyer's picture

1 oz silver sold out. Even they say available, they lie as they try to ship on next influx. I ordered last week for gifts. APMEX said no prob, now the say big prob.. FUCK APMEX. Chick their ads to fuck them liars.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:44 | 820240 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Lil ol retail buyer DCRB was able to get a roll of Silver Eagles today, did not have to tell anyone who I was...

NOTE how expensive gold is re jewelry.  No one is buying gold jewelry now (relatively speaking of course).  So, if there are few buyers of gold jewelry, how come the price is up so high?  People like us looking for a place to preserve wealth.

I just came back from Peru.  They are SHOCKED how expensive silver is!  And hardly anyone in Peru buys gold jewelry now, it is even hard to find gold jewelry in the 5th biggest producing country of gold in the world.

FOFOA says that as gold gets more expensive it will get harder to find.  Are we seeing that now?     (please note that I am NOT FOFOA!  I respect him mucho though)

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:38 | 820336 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

FOFOA is a valuable ally, but for some reason he found it necessary to do a hit job on silver. 

I prefer the most natural analogy there is, gold is symbolic of the sun, and silver is symbolic of the moon.  One is more powerful, and prominent, sure, but there is a time, and a place in the sky for both.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 09:13 | 820533 Eric The Red
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I try to keep my head on straight by telling myself everyday, "Gold is money, Silver is a speculation".  I own a shitload of both, but it pays to keep your eye on the ball.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 12:45 | 821135 redrob25
redrob25's picture

FOFOA's Freegold concept is fractional paper on top of gold, with silver being ignored.

No thanks. We tried that and it didn't work.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 08:17 | 820507 zhandax
zhandax's picture

DCRB, as far as I know I am not one of your relatives, but I have always enjoyed wandering off to where 'no one' has gone before.  Hey, you can always sell it back for the same purchasing power as when you bought it.  Only works against you in nominal terms if the risk of TSHTF goes down.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:35 | 820221 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Buy physical gold OTC (ie anonymously) and hide it well.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:41 | 820230 Terminus C
Terminus C's picture

They want us to buy gold ETFs?  I suppose the deserve some credit for saying that we need to stay away from American etfs... but really... etfs?

As for Ponzi's comment, it sure is a double whamy, media and market manipulation... and we wonder why the sheep don't wake up.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 09:31 | 820570 collinar
collinar's picture

Yea, they are advising offshore PM ETFs. This ties in with their efforts to move the massive naked short efforts offshore. In other words they want us "morons" to buy offshore ETFs to fund the offshore PM shorts. This is bullshit!

The only solution is buy and hold your own physical silver and gold. For IRA/401k holders, get a "Self Directed IRA" , or Solo 401K and stock it with silver and gold legal tender coins. Perfectly legal way to hold physical PMs in your IRA/401k.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 15:02 | 821677 New World Chaos
New World Chaos's picture

Try NAFEP for this.  It is a lot of paperwork and almost two months of back-and-forth but it works.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:41 | 820231 Thomas
Thomas's picture

Then Doug goes on to claim that gold is the most over owned asset. Huh? BTW-Clyde H. is probably Clyde Harrison.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:41 | 820232 Bearster
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Gold is not an investment.  Gold is cash, in the only currency that insane governments the world over cannot destroy.

In these insane times, one holds cash because once one loses trust in ponzi bond and equity markets, once one realizes real estate is a dead asset for a generation, and once one realizes that all other commodities (excepting maybe silver) are going to see collapsing demand in this Greater Depression, what else is there to hold other than cash???

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:54 | 820259 Misean
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Very nicely put.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:31 | 820321 Rusty Shorts
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"what else is there to hold other than cash???"


Sailboats and fishing nets?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 06:43 | 820478 Ricky Bobby
Ricky Bobby's picture

+1 I am with you on that one.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 10:26 | 820671 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Decent sails are about as exspensive as gold.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 05:25 | 820460 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture


"Gold is not an investment"


This is a generalisation, I presume? The gold/silver price still has to recover from 20 years of price suppression. Until such time I would regard gold and silver as the best investment opportunity of the last 40 years.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:47 | 820250 dryam
dryam's picture

Here's Doug Kass's prediction on gold exactly one year ago.....see #4

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:52 | 820255 Babalooee
Babalooee's picture

It would be nice to think he knows what he's talking about, but when he starts mumbling about oil prices being high due to manipulation, I find it easy to check out.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 00:57 | 820266 JonNadler
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ANybody remember this piece of sheer wisdom? 



Gold Loses Safe-Haven Status For First Time in History

Posted By: John Melloy | Executive Producer, Fast Money | 05 Feb 2010 | 08:55 AM ET


In the book, "The Power of Gold: The History of an Obsession" author Peter Bernstein writes that throughout the history of man, “people believe that gold is a refuge until it is taken seriously; then it becomes a curse.”


For those looking to hide out in the metal during this week's stock market sell-off, it has once again become a curse. Fears of a debt default in Greece have flattened the Euro and sparked a global sell-off in nearly every asset class and sector. And the jobs report today will add to lingering fears about the stability of our own economy here.


The issue once again is that gold is being taken too seriously. Last year net inflows into the SPDR Gold shares topped $13 billion, the most of any of the State Street offerings of ETFs. Gold has become a core holding for investors.


 When the stock market corrects, investors are forced to sell some of their core holdings as well to raise cash,” said Joe Terranova, Chief market Strategist for Virtus Investment Partners and a ‘Fast Money’ trader. The same thing occurred during the collapse of Bear Stearns, notes Terranova. The GLD is down six percent in the last five days.



Gold, long seen as a reliable inflation hedge, doesn’t have that going for it either. “With inflation indicators such as copper and steel selling off aggressively here, deflation is the bigger fear in the markets right now,” said Steve Grasso, Director of Institutional Sales at Stuart Frankel.


So is there nowhere to hide? Municipal bonds, traditional tax and turmoil havens, may be risky here because of the threat of downgrades by rating firms based on the coming tax shortfalls across the nation from Los Angeles to Harrisburg, Penn.


Rating downgrades could trigger forced selling by institutional holders in these bonds, seriously weighing on the prices of these bonds and hurting your returns.


Bonds backed by the full faith and credit of the United States government seem to be doing ok, the iShares Lehman 20-plus Treasury Bond ETF is in the green for this week. And then there’s the dollar. The PowerShares DB US Dollar Index Bullish ETF is up 2 percent over that last five days. We are the best house on a really bad block.





Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:35 | 820331 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

JonNadler!  'bout friggin' time you showed up round here.

Bernstein and CNBS sure had it right, no?  Yeah, hiding out in gold was REALLY, REALLY STUPID!  You showed 'em!

Au to $0.02

Ag to $0.01



O/T comment re your ex-employer JPM.  Seems Blythe is REALLY pissed off that you made that overture to our beloved MsCreant...  Were you, like, um, you know, um with pretty Blythe...?

Also O/T, I really enjoy your current avatar.


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 02:20 | 820383 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

As I get drunker, seeing how our economy sinks & stinks, I really respect PMs, physical in your own physical holdings.  At this point incoherence may follow..

Recomendation: BUY the physical only!


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 06:31 | 820475 JonNadler
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Hey DoChen, I've been here all along, completely irrelevant my posts are of course, but I've been here.

Salud! my amigo

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:01 | 820271 TheGreatPonzi
TheGreatPonzi's picture

"Gold has become a core holding for investors." Oh, yeah? I don't know for the USA, but in the French investor community, only 1% holds gold. We didn't hear Bloomberg and CNBC denounce the real estate bubble in 2006. Only after it burst. Credibility = zero

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:28 | 820312 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Baltic Dry roll over is accelerating.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:35 | 820332 Elmer Fudd
Elmer Fudd's picture

But, but, but it doesn't generate any cash flow and I can't eat it... 

And its only good for wearing around my neck at discos to hopefully impress women with big breasts...

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 01:52 | 820352 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Are you kidding, I am planning on setting up a  gold jewellry leasing business to these big breasted women.  Cash flows are hardly the attractive part of this bargain!

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 02:15 | 820379 I think I need ...
I think I need to buy a gun's picture

Don't believe anyone of these assholes Cramer Kass etc.....I believe gold is going to go on a parabolic move soon as the bond market implodes. They will then implode gold with some market event such as bankrupting major banks or fannie and freddie etc. When gold implodes it will fall from 3500-3000 range back to 2300. Everyone will say sell gold. This is bullshit. It will only be the end of the current C wave crashing into a D wave. Don't sell your fucking gold no matter what. After they implode gold and they have it all they will annouce gold to be worth 12000-50000 probably at or about 12/1/2012. So we will have a parabolic move up to 3500 or close then a crash to 2300 then a quasi gold standard. DO NOT TRUST THE GLD that is what will be confiscated only those holding a certain amount are entitled to their gold. They system is set up like a casino and you will lose.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 02:48 | 820402 ZEITGEIST
ZEITGEIST's picture

your guess work is point...if major banks go and silver will go even more parabolic...they will do something like a rumor that they are going to confiscate your gold.....

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 08:24 | 820512 zhandax
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Get your own avatar douchebag

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 08:01 | 820497 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

Alf Field should sue you for plagarism.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 02:59 | 820410 markmotive
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According to Saxo Bank's Outrageous predictions for 2011, gold could hit $1800/oz.

BTW, here's Saxo's full report:



Tue, 12/21/2010 - 04:29 | 820445 I Am The Unknow...
I Am The Unknown Comic's picture

I am being an a-hole and doing a double post becuase I want this to be seen.  I posted this on the thread about JPM sending their silver shorts overseas.  So, my apologies to those of you who have seen it twice. 

Tyler, could you please issue a postion statement on owning SLV instead of physical silver.  Some people can do both, and some people can only buy SLV for several reasons (e.g. their local shops are out of silver, or they have their investment money tied in an IRA).  So, if a person can not buy physical, can they still make an impact by buying SLV?  Some posting here and/or elsewhere argue that SLV doesn't really hold physical 1 for 1.  Some argue SLV can theoretically issue millions of new shares and put off taking delivery indefinitely, taking advantage of dips.  Others say SLV may also be shorting to manipulate the stock price.  Others claim there is actually a glut of silver in the refineries.  I think I have heard it all, and the shorts have definitely pulled out the big guns in the MSM, causing longs to pull out their guns too.  So, I don't actually know what is the truth about buying SLV.  Could you please have somebody do a piece on it?  Theoretically, those who have IRA's could go 100% into SLV on any given day or span of 12/29 for example....and I'm sure many ZH readers would like to know if that would have a contributing, counterproductive, or no effect on Max Keiser's campaign to buy physical silver.    

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 08:45 | 820514 zhandax
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I have the IRA crap to deal with in one account as well, and prefer PSLV.  It bought in around 24$/oz and 1000 shares is about the same as 400oz.  I feel a lot more confident that Sprott has unencumbered metal in a vault at the Canadian mint than JPM has unencumbered metal in a vault anywhere.  In fact, overall I am currently long metal, flat PSLV, and own a few SLV puts.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 09:18 | 820544 Eric The Red
Eric The Red's picture

I have GTU in my Roth IRA.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 12:56 | 821178 redrob25
redrob25's picture

Don't buy SLV. Research and buy miners, whose share price will move up upon the rise in commodity price.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 07:42 | 820493 moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

OK I like my PM's . But thinking about the predicted collapse why are there gold dealers still in business? Why are they working so hard for FRN's? I just boughy some more silver yesterday and the thought hit me  that I expect to be able to continue to buy.

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 08:04 | 820498 Treason Season
Treason Season's picture

...because that's what dealers do, they deal. How deep is that?

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 11:27 | 820815 moregoldplease
moregoldplease's picture

So does that mean that dealers are some new breed of human that despite dire economic USD losses they can still exist using FRN's when the rest of us cannot?

I'm just wondering how severe this so called calamity is going to be given that PM dealers don't seem worried about it.

Sarcasm not appreciated


Tue, 12/21/2010 - 09:25 | 820551 JonNadler
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because we try to buy low sell high make a profit and then turn the profit into long term PM holdings.



or we create pool accounts with no gold...but that's a different story..

Tue, 12/21/2010 - 09:25 | 820553 zero intelligence
zero intelligence's picture

Dealers make money on the spread.

In a normal market, you can always buy at some price, until perhaps paper money is regarded as totally worthless no matter how many zeros are printed on them.

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