This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Bill Buckler On The Incompatibility Of Money And The Modern Financial System; A Look At The Upcoming Great Unwind Now That All 'Talk' Has Failed

Tyler Durden's picture


In the past few weeks, there have been tomes of disjointed literature written on why the final days of the modern financial system may be approaching. Disjointed, as it goes against everything that existing economists believe in, and thus are forced to forget all they have learned from Ive League professor-written textbooks and start from scratch, i.e., acknowledge their religion has been flawed all along. Bill Buckler (author of the Privateer newsletter), who has seen this for ages, shares some of the most comprehensive views on the upcoming great financial unwind, first analyzing the case study of the aftermath of Volcker's 1979 Belgrade meeting, which was everything that Bernanke's "easy way out" QE choice was not. Buckler then analyzes the broken fabric of financial reality, and explains why at its very core, money is incompatible with everything that modern finance stands for. Lastly, Buckler looks at the aftermath of the failed G20 meetings, and concludes that: "Now that the LAST hope of an international agreement to solve an insoluble problem has been lost, it is just a matter of time before talk is followed by action." We may in fact see the first "action" today if, as some rumors are swirling Portugal or Greece may escalate to the "next level" of bailout action.

From Buckler's as always must read The Privateer (number 666).

On Volcker and Bernanke: a compare and contrast in success and failure.

The Successful Rescue - 1979-1982:

the US Fed under Paul Volcker stopped “targeting interest rates” in
late 1979, they stopped trying to hold US interest rates below levels
set by the markets. The result, of course, was that US interest rates
SOARED. They soared because there was now no impediment which prevented
them from reflecting both the risk of a depreciating currency and the
risk of the debtor reneging in part or in whole on the debt. Until late
in 1980, these risks were also reflected in the $US “price” of Gold
which soared to $US 850 in January of that year and had a secondary
rally to $US 720 in September. But while all this was happening, the US
Dollar had stopped falling in the international currency markets simply
because high US interest rates were compensating US Dollar and
$US-denominated debt paper holders for their risk.

At the time
when this was happening, US Treasury funded debts were hovering just
below the $US 1 TRILLION level. Interest payments could still be met,
albeit with some difficulty. But as these high interest rates persisted,
the global attitude towards the US Dollar changed profoundly. All of a
sudden, it was possible to earn a very good rate of return on US Dollar
investments. Even better, US Treasury debt paper was selling at rock
bottom prices on the secondary markets and had been falling for a
decade. With the Dollar now stabilised and indeed starting to go up on
the currency markets, everyone knew that US rates would start heading
down at some point and when they did, the prices of Treasury paper on
the secondary markets would soar. The world was enticed back into US
paper with a rush, starting in 1982.

On the surface, this looks
like the “classic” means by which a chronic balance of payments deficit
is resolved. But it was not. There was still no “final means of
payment”. The entire financial world still relied totally on the “full
faith and credit” of the US Government.

The Failing Rescue - The GFC - 2007 To Date:

1980-81, the US Treasury was in hock (on the funded debt side) to the
tune of just under $US 1 TRILLION. Today, the US Treasury is in hock (on
the funded side) to the tune of just under $US 14 TRILLION. In 1980-81,
the US was still an international net creditor nation. It became an
international net debtor nation in early 1985 and has long since become
the biggest international debtor the world has ever seen. In 1980-81,
the US central bank let the market reflect the true financial status of
the US by ceasing to interfere (for a short time) with interest rates.
In December 2008, the US Fed under Ben Bernanke
got rid of interest rates altogether by lowering their controlling rate
to 0.00-0.25 percent. In 1980-81, Fed Chairman Volcker faced the stark
choice of letting interest rates free or throwing in the towel and
directly monetising the “reserve” behind the Dollar - the debt issued by the US Treasury. He chose the former course. In early 2009, Fed Chairman Bernanke
faced the same choice. The intervening three decades had seen US debts
increase to a point where the system could literally not afford any
interest rate at all. He chose the latter course with “QE1". On November
3, 2010, he compounded this by ushering in “QE2". The introduction of
QE2 is an acknowledgement that QE1 failed.

In the lead up
to the announcement of QE2, Mr Bernanke stated publicly that he hoped to
INCREASE “inflationary expectations” amongst the American public to
induce them to borrow and spend NOW before prices increased further. He
has since reversed his field, too late to make any difference. US cost
of living increases already bear no resemblance to the official figures
so beloved of the Fed. To give just one example, the prices of
ingredients in many staple packaged foodstuffs sold in the US have
jumped 20-30 percent since August. US retailers are at the point where
they can no longer keep prices down without suffering actual losses. The
inflation is rampant. The pressure under prices is a pent-up volcano.
The only “incentive” for the rest of the world to hold US Dollar debt
paper is that they already hold so much of it. The only rationale for
the US Dollar to remain as the world’s reserve currency is that the
global financial system is set up on that basis. The only thing holding
the system together is fear of the consequences of dismantling it. But
the world can now see, at least in outline, that three years of US
“stimulus” has just made things worse. There has got to be a better way,
but what is it?

On the intractable problem of modern money:

Money Isn’t Power - But The Control Of What Is Used As Money IS!:

The original Bretton Woods agreement of 1944 had the US Dollar as the world’s “reserve” currency. Exchange rates between all foreign currencies and the US Dollar were “fixed” (except when governments decided to devalue or revalue). In return for this, the US government promised to redeem its Dollars (to foreign central banks and governments ONLY) at $US 35 per troy ounce of Gold.

In 1971, this promise was withdrawn, an act which led to the era of floating fiat currencies which has been given the name “Bretton Woods II”. Exchange rates between currencies were “free” to fluctuate as the “markets” decided they should. If you look at the cumulative deficits of almost any major nation in the world, you will find that almost ALL of it has been taken on since 1971.

In more recent times, talk has begun to flow about the need for a “Bretton Woods III”, a system in which multiple currencies would take the role of “reserves”. In the week leading up to the Seoul G-20 meeting, Gold has been mentioned as an “indicator” to try and keep the nations issuing the (as yet undecided) reserve currencies more or less on the straight and narrow. But any talk about Gold AS money is as heretical as ever. Ellen Brown says money is credit, neatly putting the cart before the horse. Edmund Conway says Gold is incompatible with modern banking practices - notably fractional reserve banking (true) - and with “democracy as we know it” (very true).

The Privateer has said this before - nearly 16 years ago when we first put up the Gold Pages at our website: “There really is no place for Gold - in the modern financial system. That leads us, however, to a further question: What does that say about the modern financial system?” We’ve been saying it ever since and we are now saying it again. In essence, you can have money or you can have the modern financial system. YOU CAN’T HAVE BOTH!

Every participant at the G-20 Heads of State summit is aware of that fact. So are the advisors they have taken with them to Seoul. So are the treasurers and central bankers who preceded them to South Korea. To hang onto their power, they MUST hang onto their control over what is used as money. They need it to issue the debt they incur to feed that power. They need it to maintain the fiction that is modern “democracy” - that political freedom stands or falls on unlimited majority RULE.

Most importantly, now that all talk has failed and yielded absolutely nothing, the time for action may begin. Sadly, it will do nothing more than confirm that America has now lost its hegemony as an absolute power. What happens next is anyone's guess.

The First Glimmerings:

At the just concluded G-20 Heads of State summit in Seoul, the US did not get ANYTHING it wanted. This is universally known. Even the Wall Street Journal acknowledged it, running a headline on November 13 which reads: “US Gets Rebuffed at Divided Summit”. So it did - decisively.

In the Global Report in this issue, we mention a November 8 article that World Bank President Robert Zoellick wrote for the London Financial Times advocating that Gold “prices” (not Gold itself) be used as an international reference point for global economic fundamentals. The problem here is that Gold “prices” are set on paper markets in which only paper, not Gold, actually changes hands. This affords ample scope for the control of these prices - and they have been controlled for decades now.

Before he travelled to South Korea for the G-20 meeting, President Hu of China spent almost a week in Europe. Shortly before Portugese banks were being downgraded by US ratings agencies, Mr Hu was concluding large trade deals with Portugal. He was concluding even bigger trade deals with France, and going much further. With the Seoul summit now over, France has taken over the presidency of the G-20 from South Korea. At a State dinner in his honour in Paris, President Hu publicly said that “China supports France in its efforts to ensure the success of the G-20 summit next year”. French President Sarkozy has made it clear that his top priority is a fundamental reform of the world’s monetary system, a priority he shares with Germany and, in President Hu’s own words, with China.

In 1979-81, Fed Chairman Volcker postponed the demise of the US Dollar as the reserve currency by, at least temporarily, taking away the punch bowl. Mr Bernanke has done precisely the opposite. It is, or should be, crystal clear that the days of the global monetary system in its present form are numbered.

Recent Events:

In the immediate aftermath of the conclusion of the G-20 meeting in Seoul, China came to the forefront on global markets. On November 12, a rumour that the Chinese government was about to further tighten the reserve requirements of their banks and were going to increase their controlling rates sent almost ALL markets into chaos. Stock markets either stopped going up or slumped dramatically, in Asia in general and in China in particular. Commodity and precious metals prices - all denominated in US Dollars - fell sharply. The US Dollar itself abruptly ended a five-day rally on global currency markets.

The most ominous movements on global markets, however, came in the US Treasury market. Longer-term bond yields have been rising, and prices falling, ever since the announcement of QE2 on November 3. On November 12, the Fed made their first Treasury purchases under QE2. Despite a fall on almost all other US markets, Treasury yields rose further and prices slumped some more.

What’s Next?:

Mr Obama returns to Washington on November 14. He faces a “lame-duck” Congress and the almost certain prospect of political gridlock. Globally, the US policy of Treasury debt monetisation is being condemned almost everywhere. Now that the LAST hope of an international agreement to solve an insoluble problem has been lost, it is just a matter of time before talk is followed by action.


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sun, 11/14/2010 - 15:58 | 726256 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

Now hear this. There will be no unwinding. There will be endless amounts of loaves and fishes so sayeth the Lord. Thats the way the owners want it. And lo behold the quote from Ramses II , "So let it be written, So let it be done". Now be off with you Bill Buckler and let the Lord Bernanke work in his mysterious ways

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:29 | 726284 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

Speaking of fishes, isn't that who Luca Brasi sleeps with?


Mon, 11/15/2010 - 03:50 | 727114 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

I've seen who Silvio Berlusconi sleeps with...

And they ain't no fishes...

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:48 | 726388 akat
akat's picture

 Old saying: 'the fish stinks from the head down'.   This fish is really stinkin' and although the bankster think they are on top of the world, the world is starting to let them know that isn't the case.  In the longer term the U.S. citizens may be in a better position than the banksters.  The U.S. citizens may go to an alternative economy and stop paying these folks taxes and fighting their wars.  God Bless America and these banksters ain't America they are the tools of the international european elite that is due for another big fall.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:16 | 726614 chopper read
chopper read's picture


how do we arrive on the eve of collapse?

it all begins when 'you can only pay your temple tax with a special coin'. government creates the mechanism for control. The creation of centralized government's 'legal tender' opposes competing currencies, including gold and silver, and provides the opportunity for counterfeiting. Only strict laws with capital penalties against counterfeiting curtails any treason against honest production from hard-working people.   

However, it is when counterfeiting becomes legal and institutionalized that this manmade system truly begins to favor the existing rich at the expense of the existing poor. the temple siphones wealth upwards at the expense of liberty. This process creates an everburdened working peasantry while simultaneously fueling gluttoneous consumption at the top. 

fractional reserve counterfeiting is best maximized with existence of fiat (faith-based paper) money. The digital age makes it as easy as pressing a keyboard, and the printing takes on the speed of light. The fraud expands exponentially across international borders allowing for incredible leverage for the existing rich against the existing poor who have no such ability to counterfeit. they must run faster or starve. bankers must do less and less to control more and more resources. they can enact environmental laws that favor themselves and restrict upward mobility. 

imagine, if you lend money out directly (buy a bond), the money leaves your hands and goes into the hands of the borrower, who can then either pay this money back to you with interest or lose this money (or some combination of the two).

if you deposit money in a bank, the bank can lend this money out while simultaneously keeping this money in your account. After which, the borrower of this newly created money can then either pay this money back to the bank with interest or lose this money (or some combination of the two), in which case the taxpayer bails out the bank.

in essence, there are two sets of rules. one for bankers, and one for everyone else. 

of course, you do not have to imagine this as it takes place each moment that you are either awake or asleep.

"modern democracy" is a scam, and so is the 'Welfare State' which allows the wholesale raiding of central government coffers with the promises of carrots on sticks which actually result in no carrots and all stick for the gullible masses who trade their freedom for lies of cradle to grave security.  

break this treasonous international banking cartel before we arrive at marshall law and are being marched off to death camps whilst our farmlands and factories are nationalized by oligarchial fascists who will not give up the government force they both monopolize and use as a weapon of terror against those who wish to 'follow the law'.  

sound familiar?  


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:15 | 726721 KTV Escort
KTV Escort's picture

Good post. We already have marshall law at the airports, and the conditioning escalates...

"Please, Mr. TSA official, we'd like to Opt Out of the cancer-causing X-ray body scan... instead of taking nude photos of me and my children, feel free to humiliate and molest us with your newly enhanced pat-down proceedure"

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:43 | 726774 macholatte
macholatte's picture

Germany: How to Protest Airport Body Scans

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:33 | 726934 chopper read
chopper read's picture

classic.  of course, we would get form-tackled, beaten, and charged with felony intent to start a riot if we were to attempt this harmless protest in America.  We live in a mindless police state of brown-shirt-jack-booted thugs terrorizing us on behalf of the international banking cartel and their lapdog politicians.  


This scam is best explained by historian John Kenneth Galbraith, who states, "In numerous years following the war, the Federal Government ran a heavy surplus. It could not however pay off its debt, retire its securities, because to do so meant there would be no bonds to back the national bank notes. To pay off the debt was to destroy the money supply."

the private Federal Reserve Bank prints $1,000 in Federal Reserve Notes ($USD) to be circulated as currency amongst business people and offered to the US Government/IRS as the only 'legal tender' for tax payments.   

In order to bring this money into circulation, the Treasury must create a $1,000 bond (which pays interest).  As a result, The Fed earns an interest rate as long as there is a money supply circulating.  The larger the money supply, the more interest they earn and the less your existing savings is worth.

Those who are first in line to borrow this newly printed money can spend it at today's prices in competition with everyone else.  Those who are last in line to receive borrowed money, or those who do not borrow money, will always pay the highest prices for goods and services which have adjusted upward for an increase in the money supply.  

importantly, the money supply begins as a loan and expands further through the lending process because 'fractional reserve lending' (counterfeiting) within the banking system is legal.  Assume 'reserve requirements' are set at 10%.  In this scenario, when an individual deposits 10 FRNs/$USDs, a bank can lend out 9 FRNs/$USDs to another individual while simultaneously still showing the original 10 FRNs/$USDs in the depositors bank account.  When the borrowed 9 FRNs/$USDs are deposited in a new bank, this bank can then lend approximately 8 FRNs/$USDs to another individual while simultaneously still showing the original 9 FRNs/$USDs in the first borrowers bank account.  In essence, 27 FRNs/$USDs now exist from the original 10 FRNs/$USDs loaned out from The Fed.  If the lending bank holds all three bank accounts, then interest is earned on the 17 FRNs/$USDs of the total 27 FRNs/$USDs now showing on deposit.  As long as the interest earned and principal returned amounts to 10 FRNs/$USDs then the original deposit can be returned in full (with modest interest).  Of course, if the original deposit is withdrawn, then it simply gets redeposited into another private bank in the system and the process begins all over again.  

There is also a borrowing market between competing banks in order to manage cash withdrawals.  The Fed always stands ready as the 'lender of last resort' to any bank in the system.  In fact, many banks currently borrow directly from The Fed in order to buy US Treasury Bonds, which is to say that they lend the money back to the US taxpayer in return for interest.  Good work if you can find it. 

Finally, if all loans go busts as a result of poor lending practices, then all deposits are ultimately insured by us, the taxpayer (FDIC 'insurance').  Depositors incur no costs for gaining deposit interest payments, and bankers can walk free with no civil liability (or criminal).  

Clearly, this is a system designed by bankers to serve bankers.  Individual bankers have an advantage over individual men outside of banking.  The system favors the existing rich (bankers) at the expense of the existing poor who cannot operate with these advantages.     

Of course, this would be impossible if any of this were attempted with 10 ounces of gold, because the same gold cannot be in multiple places at once.  Further, if any gold is loaned out poorly, then the gold will be partially or entirely lost forever.  In this way, the risk is shared by the depositor and the individual banker who they have hired to find borrowers.  In this way, bankers would need to compete on a level playing field with everyone else who lends via the bond market or directly to a friend or acquaintance.   


as it is, our system punishes savers and investors, and rewards existing wealthy bankers and excessive risk-taker alike.   prices never come down, consumption is always artificially high and driven by the most aggressive borrowers.

Much like the former USSR, our system is unsustainable. Big Government "Solutions" are a broken window fallacy. "Progressive" Democrats and Republicans have further accelerated our demise by undermining State and local government rights and individual liberties in order to concentrate evermore power within both our Wealth Redistribution Complex (Washington D.C.) and our Wall Street Industrial Complex (New York City) which have evolved into vehicles for white collar crime in virtually every facet of their parasitical existence. 

The key culprits are centralized money planning, fractional reserve counterfeiting, and faith-based paper money. It is our debt-based monetary system which allows for illegal leverage via fractional reserve counterfeiting that gives the international banking cartel and their cronies significant power and influence over our lives. because we compete against these newly printed Federal Reserve Notes with our existing FRNs that we have earned through providing valuable goods/services, we are subjected to a system which favors the existing rich, hurts the existing poor, and creates strong headwinds to upward mobility in our economy. 

if FRNs were not the only 'legal tender', then they could not be counterfeited. you would only need to deal with other honest business people at your own risk, and so would other individuals. in other words, nobody would have an unfair advantage. 

The Welfare State, for example, cannot exist without keynesian money printing within a debt-based monetary system. keynesian money printing is dependent upon infinite amounts of loans expanding exponentially. obviously, this is not sustainable. this is a sick, twisted system of fraud, with the promise of "free lunches" all around and a "chicken in every pot". Obviously, these promises are on the eve of being broken and leading us ever-closer to economic collapse by the moment. 

a rule of law protecting your property from other monkeys is paramount. 'more government regulation' is not. this is sleight of hand misdirection that only results in making your life more difficult and never results in solutions. namely, end the private federal reserve gosbank, outlaw fractional reserve lending, and open up regional economies to competing asset-backed currencies including gold and silver.

bigger centralized governments are not the solution. they simply succeed in creating large public coffers to be raided by corporate and labor cronies and their lapdog politicians. starve the beast and place our government workers in soup lines immediately so we can go back to being sovereign men and women who are responsible only for not imposing upon the liberty of our neighbors and other global inhabitants. 

Further, if Trillions of $USDs were not tied up in U.S. Treasury Bonds supporting the Welfare State, this capital would be in the private sector because it would have no other place to go. The Dow Jones Industrial Average would be at 100,000 and everyone would have a helicopter in their back yard. Hurricane Katrina victims, for example, would not need to rely on central planners who currently have a monopoly on both "force" and incompetence. The abundance of wealth would increase the generousity of fellow Americans to unseen levels, and dwarf financial outpourings towards Haiti's hurricane victims and Bali's tsunami victims by comparison.

instead, we are paying ever-expanding interest payments on nearly $15 Trillion with approximately $160 Trillion in unfunded liabilities to the further enrichment of The Federal Reserve and extended members of the International Banking Cartel.  

I long for the day when these traitors and foreign enemies hang from the gallows for all of the emotional and physical pain and suffering, divorces, suicides, murders, assassinations, and wars that they have caused in pursuit of their own interests at the expense of decentralization, peaceful free trade, and individual liberty.   

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 04:44 | 727134 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Thank you, Chopper Read. for your powerful, heartfelt and cogent presentation.

You so skillfully weave your truth with universal truth that the resulting tapestry of thought is

a delicious treat for the mind.

Wonderful work made necessary by the time we are passing through.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 11:41 | 727537 chopper read
chopper read's picture


Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:18 | 727224 Winisk
Winisk's picture

Excellent summary.  It doesn't matter how many times I read how this con operates, it continues to blow my mind. 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 11:42 | 727539 chopper read
chopper read's picture

agreed. it blows my mind, too.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 04:05 | 727117 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

KTV Escort: "Please, Mr. TSA official, we'd like to Opt Out of the cancer-causing X-ray body scan..."

When Are People Going to Realize?
In a system of corporate owned governance... If you don't like the way the government operates... you have to kick the corporations in the balls.

If the Amerikan public vocally boycotts the airlines... and tells the airlines fuck you and your body scanners or we are not flying... corporations would scream at Congress to knock this crap off.

Those scanners would go down in a hurry. Cut off corporate revenue. Don't buy their shit.

You Amerikans Enjoy Being Sodomized and Humiliated
But oh know. You just have to fly to NY by tomorrow. You just could not take the train or say fuck it and drive. You buy into the myth you have to fly.

Amerikans just want to take the abuse so they have something else to whine about.

Until you wake up and tell the airlines to fuck off... you will keep taking your shit sandwich, eat it and like it.

Sam Spade to Joel Cairo: "When you're slapped, you'll take it and like it."

I don't want to hear any more bitching about body scanner until you quit flying and do something about it...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 07:29 | 727194 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


That's the one where Joel Cairo's hair is made extra curly like Timmy Geithner's and Sam Spade is the real Market.

It won't change, Until you do.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 09:17 | 727266 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

I have not boarded a commercial aircraft since the ludicrous 'searches' at airports began.

Now I drive or use whatever alternative transportation is available.

I understand that those with time constraints cannot do this, but there are lots of people that can and should.


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 15:54 | 726258 etrader
etrader's picture

"Whats next?:"

Maybe Portugal  blinks first and bails out of the Euro?

 While everyones focus is fixed on Ireland, Portugal's Foreign Affairs Minister slips this out.

"Luís Amado NAM argues that the parties have to realize that the alternative to an understanding is the possibility of being confronted with a scenario leaving the Euro."

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:39 | 726375 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

While it may be portugal, spain is the next big one to fall.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:05 | 726411 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Is that before or after California?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:13 | 726929 TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

No, before California, and just before Ireland.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 07:35 | 727200 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


There is no after California. The IP right on the surface is better than Gold was in 1849.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 15:51 | 726259 animalspirit
animalspirit's picture

I cannot tell whether or not this is a joke:


  Please Select your Payment Method:

  - Credit Card 

  - Paypal

  - Gold or Silver Bullion


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:27 | 726282 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

I've seen a few of these around.  Only an idiot would pay in gold, getting paid in gold is genius.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:00 | 726316 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Only an idiot would pay in gold

Useful idiot.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:11 | 726334 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

...ah, do you see the problem with "returning to the gold standard" that you hear as an option from all the morons out there?  

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:15 | 726339's picture

Please do go on.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:49 | 726578 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Not the OP, so I'll use a famous quote instead

"Because only I can show you the way into Mordor ever since your uncle Bilbo tricked me out of the precious."

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:09 | 726811's picture


Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:16 | 726911 wisefool
wisefool's picture

In the JRR Tolkien series of books there are these things called  "Rings of Power". In our modern world power is exercised with money. In the books, once somebody gets a ring of power they generally will never give it up. One character gets tricked out of it by the name of golem. Once he looses it he spends the rest of his life trying to get it back, including the faustian deal which brings both his and rings demise. (by leading the protagonist into "mordor")

I feel a gold standard would do the same to most common people and thought the metaphor would apply. Sorry if is a bad comparison. I am not a gold bug, but I am not anti-gold. 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:44 | 726363 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Futures contracts can be settled in metal.  What's the diff?

Bill Buckler makes another home run with this issue of The Privateer.  As a subscriber, I wait impatiently for each fortnightly issue.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 04:08 | 727119 Problem Is
Problem Is's picture

I like his use of historical context. He seems like an intelligent writer with sharp analysis to me...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 07:39 | 727201 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


You'd be surprized to see the actual discounts and  haircuts for various presents of Gold during a very tricky learning curve. Coca-Cola fares better in trade when distrubution is down from source.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:47 | 726778 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

The wonks in D.C. and on Wall Street have no idea how intelligent and savvy the average schmuck can become.

Black markets exist in every society and civilization, and nothing can stop them.

You could train any dope of medium intelligence to test precious metals for content and validity.

Databases are oh so very subject to power failures and degaussing magnets.

Poof!  Trillions Gone in 60 Seconds.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 06:45 | 727164 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

eb, sometimes the scale of the crime is so large that you have to take "airliners" and fly them into buildings full of such records and pesky record keepers.

Not sure how many are aware of Cantor's role in the denuding of the USSR and what records were destroyed there on 9/11. And building seven.

The rest was collateral damage.


Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:31 | 727229 blindfaith
blindfaith's picture

I have been meaning to bring up Paypal in a comment for sometime.

A semi self contained independent banking system shared with G.E. capital (and we all know how good G.E. is at creative bookkeeping).  Digital points is yet another new money system backed by the full force and credit of the FED not Congress.

go eBay!  no wonder California didn't want the former CEO.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 15:56 | 726260 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I think the modern financial system you are referring to has already collapsed.

I mean 300 years of property law have pretty much disintegrated. Some of the largest institutions on Wall Street have sublimated. The US can no longer borrow it's way to prosperity, instead we must now print our way to prosperity. Several Soverign nations have gone bankrupt. Gold is at 1,400 an ounce. States can't even fund their unemployment benefits.

I'm sure I must have left out quite a bit. The only remaining relic of the "financial system" would be the dollar...everything else is gone.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:05 | 726325 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

Yuuuup. And as slow as it may *seem* its taking for the dollar to die, when we look at this time period I believe everyone will say 'wow, i cant believe the dollar collapsed in under a decade!'

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:07 | 726265 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

As the money power quibble amongst themselves, the natives grow more restless and angry.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:14 | 726266 Anal Picnic
Anal Picnic's picture


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:32 | 726366 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Eloquently articulate as usual.  Thanks for your valued input.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:09 | 726268 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

As I recall '79 "we didn't begin by having to launch an all out rescue of Wall Street."  Our Federal Government as a net debtor?  Then "where'd the 700 billion come from"?  What an extraordinary combination of both "will" and "absolute power."  I will forever be trying to "divine the purpose" of "the rescue" which of course is ongoing through "ZIRP" and "QE" and "Fannie" and "Fred" and who knows what else.  Of course "New York isn't like New Orleans" so "there will be no carnivale to celebrate this rather striking turn of events."  Damn Yankees.  Can't even throw a good party.  "They will take you down to your last cuff link" however.   So, indeed..."we have the pesky problem of the trillion or so."  Hmmm.  I'm still trying to figure out anyone can "run on this platform."  Deficits be damned indeed!  I think I've said this before but "never has so much been owed by so many of us to so few!"  I mean "don't the recipients of this ACTUAL FRIGGIN' MONEY wake up and ask--is this legal?"  In any case "don't talk to me about the Polar Bear...don't talk to me about the Ozone Layer.  Ain't much of anything these days...even the air!  They're runnin out of Rhino's well what do I care? Well LET'S HERE IT FOR THE DOLPHINS, let's HERE IT FOR THE TREES, ain't runnin' out of nothin in my deep's a casual invitation...we aim to pleeeeesssssseee

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:25 | 726278 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

I wish I had the last 10 seconds of my life back.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:33 | 726368 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

You must be a speed reader.  The syntax ran my total up to 90 seconds....

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:16 | 726523 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

The grammar took mine to 120.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:33 | 726551 doolittlegeorge
doolittlegeorge's picture

i is a jelly donut.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:20 | 726730 Rusty Shorts
Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:56 | 726590 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

Right now few have learned the new fractal/fragmented language articulation coming out of the public schools here in California. So give the brotha a break.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:05 | 726701 puckles
puckles's picture

Not to mention the new new math, which is "consensual."  Apparently, one no longer learns that 2+2=4; it can be 2+2=5, or other iterations, ad infinitum, at least in the public schools.  This is hardly a surprise, given the general, and growing, illiteracy and innumeracy of the bulk of the population. Apparently it's been implemented since 1995 or so.

While this idiotic misuse of tax revenue is often linked to the NWO types, I suspect that Bernie Madoff, Enron, etc., had at least as much to do with this paradigm, which is endorsed by all the major teacher unions.  It serves them equally well: engender a docile slave population too uneducated, illiterate, and innumerate to ever engender an original thought, never mind an objection to what they were told to do.  The best illustration of this recently was on Friday's ZH--the bloated Mona Lisa, the robosigner.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:50 | 726781 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture


But that was then, this is now.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:16 | 726272 Quinvarius
Quinvarius's picture

France loves the gold.

>>>John Connally, Treasury secretary under president Richard Nixon, had told foreign finance ministers that "the dollar was America's currency, but your problem". To solve the problem, France redeemed its dollar holdings in gold in early August 1971 by sending a French battleship to New York to take delivery of French gold from the vault of the New York Federal Reserve Bank and to bring it to the vault of the Banque de France in Paris. The French raised gold reserves and dumped dollars. Banque de France eventually increased its gold holding to 92% of its reserves. <<<

There is nothing new under the sun.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:25 | 726279 Joe44oz
Joe44oz's picture

One of their payment methods is iGolder which describes itself as...

  • iGolder is NOT a currency nor money.  You may call iGolder whatever you want - if it is convenient to you - however iGolder does not position itself as money, nor any type of currency.
  • iGolder is NOT a bank, and therefore banking regulations do not apply.  iGolder is not accepting any legal tender deposits or investments, and you cannot open any current or savings accounts with us.
  • iGolder does not offer any banking services. We only facilitate gold-denominated private trade and exchange between members and store their gold for them.  iGolder is a closed system, merely recording electronic gold ownership titles.
  • iGolder is not a money transmitter, and you cannot send us money because we do not have any bank account to deposit the money. 
    We cannot accept any deposits in any legal tender, only in physical gold.
  • iGolder is not licensed, supervised or regulated by any industry or government body. If you have faith in politicians and government officials for keeping your gold safe, please click here.*

* Hahahahah.. this is the one I love, which links you to the Disney website :-)

  • iGolder does not endorse any gambling or high-yield investment programs (HYIP).  Gambling is a zero-sum game and contributes nothing to the division of labor; HYIP is outright fraud disguised as gambling.
  • iGolder is not a U.S. Corporation and has no relationship with the U.S. Government, also none of the founders and employees at iGolder are Americans or U.S. Citizens.
Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:58 | 726314 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

iGolder is a closed system, merely recording electronic gold ownership titles.

MERS for gold?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:38 | 726293 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Henry Kissinger, Depopulation, and Fundamental Extremists

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:43 | 726299 Bob
Bob's picture

Well, instead of arguing that we'll be seeing a new reserve currency on a simple common sense basis, we can now look ahead one year and realistically expect it to happen due to the expressed intentions and overt actions, both in the recent past and easily extrapolated to the future, of other G20 nations. 

I wish I could envision a good outcome for the bottom 90% of American citizens in this. 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:16 | 726340 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Lessons are never learned without consequences being meted out.

All this access to credit was too good to be true.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:19 | 726350 Shameful
Shameful's picture

"Lessons are never learned"

Is all you needed to say.  The human race taken as a whole is remarkable resilient to learning from the past even when it is recorded and easily accessible to all.  It's why the old cons work over and over again after a few decades out of the spotlight.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:30 | 726364 nuinut
nuinut's picture

...or a few centuries, if of a large enough magnitude.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:35 | 726371 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

There seems to be a basic human genetic proclivity for believing that every time will be different, and that what is happening now will go on forever.  That is our undoing.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:38 | 726373 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Temptation. And short memory, but mainly temptation.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:46 | 726570 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

Wasn't there some woman, a long time ago I believe, that got us all into trouble with this temptation business? Her first name, Eve I think, but don't recall her last name.


Don't think that turned out too well either.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:32 | 726646 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Well, spending someone else's value is fun, if you don't look too far ahead...

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:44 | 726381 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

There is hope.   In the 23rd century of the Star Trek universe, in Star Trek IV we learn (we of the 1980s) that there is no money in the future.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:47 | 726384 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I can dig it.  Wait...  I thought futuristic societies used "Cubits".

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:54 | 726397 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Unless they ceased to find value in anything (and therefore committed suicide), they will be needing to use something.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:14 | 726874 G-R-U-N-T
G-R-U-N-T's picture

We will be using "Quatludes" as a trading currency, but that's only after we've evolved to pulsing brain tissue in a glass dome.

About 4:54 into part 4 of this episode you will see our future.

"The Gamesters of Triskelion"

To bad Gene Roddenberry didn't dream up an episode "Banksters of Planet Earth" we might have been able to implement some preventative maintenance!



Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:04 | 726498's picture

I really like Star Trek and I've watched it for forty years but the absence of money is absurd. I'd also like to know why the Borg never assimilate animals. I'd think that enhanced dogs and insects would be very useful. And how about bacteria loaded up with nanites?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:07 | 726607 robobbob
robobbob's picture

The federation is always quick to turn their noses up at lessor civilizations, yet they never really spoke of their dirty little secrets. They talk all about their evolution in ethics, but really the invention of virtually limitless power in the form of anti matter, coupled with replicator technology would have rendered all stores of value meaningless. Maroon our little erudites on an uncharted planet and see how long before they start trading conch shells or loaning them out at interest, or gasp, the barbaric relic.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:16 | 726616 wisefool
wisefool's picture

In all fairness. They have done quite a few episodes exactly as you both describe. I remember one with janeway and chochote. And Riker is always quick to spend his money on shoreleave on purple women.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:43 | 726959 TBT or not TBT
TBT or not TBT's picture

"...but really the invention of virtually limitless power in the form of anti matter, coupled with replicator technology would have rendered all stores of value meaningless...."

Bingo!   Oh wait, not quite.  Humans also trade in self-estime, prestige, reputation, influence, and ultimately sex(or rejection therefore)....    In the post replicator future, the brutal social skills of gossiping insecure teenage girls will be paramount.   We'll be ruled by the Heathers and their dashing suitors.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:32 | 726549 saulysw
saulysw's picture

I wonder if the replicators were made in China...?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:41 | 726958 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Which explains why the cannolis taste like drywall and glow in the dark.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:16 | 726864 Dental Floss Tycoon
Dental Floss Tycoon's picture

Seems I remember that crew members could use "credits".  Makes me think their "money" had much the same basis as ours.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 06:56 | 727174 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

RR, I would aver that the proclivity is towards repeating patterns of behaviour with known results and, like in that classic definition of insanity, expecting a different result.

Memory, especially a good one, is equally a blessing and a curse.

And I find it extremely naive seeing Vlocker being cast in the role of strong man hero for raising rates.

All he did was kick the can and screw a generation of Americans, is all. I wonder what the CPI constituted of then and how much "inflation" did he really control?

Still the same theme, all these doddering writers, refusing to call a spade a spade.


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:49 | 726389 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"... as a whole is remarkable resilient to learning..."

maybe "remarkably resistant."

- Ned

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 02:03 | 727001 Best Satan in Town
Best Satan in Town's picture

The period should be outside the quotation marks.

- Satan

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 04:55 | 727133 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

@Shameful #726350

When you can start to learn, you are on your way to graduation.  Sometimes I think Earth is a reform school! Other times I think it is pre-school.  Maybe it is both?


For some reason the ones in reform school always seem to be running the pre-school.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:51 | 726304 Wyndtunnel
Wyndtunnel's picture

Not much longer before Apple, Google, PayPal and Facebook  battle it out for who gets to dominate digital currency.  Anyone have an inkling how that could work and replace "bricks and mortar" central banking with digital central banking?  How would States raise their operating revenues? Should currency be de-nationalized instead allowing public companies that control the digital infrastructure determine which digital methods of exchange people can use through their cellphones and letting customers choose?   No doubt people will always want a physical means of exchange but I suspect this will be relegated to black markets.... The machines really are taking over...  Either the Behemoth Computing Corporations fully take over the monetary system or the whole thing MUST collapse to something simpler than the stenchy stew of complex financial shenanigans we have now. Anyone else think that a Luddite war against computers and automation is more than science fiction in the years ahead?  

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:37 | 726372 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Paypal, bitchez!

Somebody had to do it...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 07:53 | 727209 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


Stalin asked, "How many Divisions does he (the Pope of Rome) have?" No bank goes it alone that don't have tanks.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:42 | 726378 nuinut
nuinut's picture

 No doubt people will always want a physical means of exchange...

We don't need a physical means of exchange, we need an undilutable physical store of value that freely floats against the medium of exchange.


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:48 | 726386 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The lower the flow the better the medium.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:26 | 726540 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Succinct. Lov'n it.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:37 | 726651 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Like a sperm bank,  excepting deposits but please no withdrawals.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:20 | 726428 Shameful
Shameful's picture

I still attest that the store of value will be seen with wild hate by governments and the other speculator/debtor classes.  After all how can the savers be fleeced if they can put their wealth in a real store of value and not have to join the speculators in the trading pits?  And those speculators/debtors are like rust they will attack relentless for as long as it takes to bring the system to that once again benefits them.

Also the medium of exchange would have little meaning because people would being pricing things in what they perceived as value.  Perception of value is key.  If it's openly agreed on that the currency has no value, and every has an incentive to dump it as soon as it hits their hands, that is not good for trust.  I daresay few would leave currency in the bank if they knew it was subject to rot.  I suppose that could partially be fixed by clamping down on the printing, but then it might as well be a fixed gold standard if there is no additional currency creation.  But if there is printing it is a huge encouragement to the people to never hold currency except for the moment right before a transaction, in which case why not trade gold directly?

All for solid thing of value to store savings in, but still cannot fathom how Freegold would survive the real world.  A world populated by shysters, hucksters, debtors, regular people who would see it as a way not to get fleeced.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:37 | 726443 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Perception of value is key.

You don't now how long I have waited for someone to say that.

Value is perception. Value underpins the entire fucking thing.

And it's completely subjective. That is the problem everyone has with understanding economics and the monetary system.

The monetary system is best visualized as the flow of value through the human super-organism.

The govts holding gold will be recapitalized, but their free-spending ways will be finished, for sure. The debtors will hate it initially, but they too will find the creation of value is properly compensated eventually. No such thing as a free lunch.

The age of personal sovereignty, and its partner personal responsibility, approaches.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:44 | 726457 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Of course it's subjective.  The view of all value is subjective in all but a small subset of cases.  The value of a cheeseburger is going to be different to a vegetarian and a burger fan.

Now you talk of the free lunch thing going along with it.  Now sure they will hate it but can they be forced?  Will they not rise up and demand more free lunches from the productive?  And for the professional looter class it would end their livelihood.  It's all they know, so they will not let it pass without a fight.  This is made more acute by the fact that many in the West are a part of the parasite class.  If one were to look at the number of people supported under the Govs largess it's a staggering number % wise, they will not go quietly into that good night.  And in a democracy can we expect them to not try to foil freegold with all manner of schemes such as capital controls, taxation, or confiscation?

I do not disipute that freegold could not happen, I merely doubt it would be in effect for any length of time.  It has an array of powerful enemies.  And after all when the govs are recapitalize the lure of playing santa for votes/power will be strong.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:59 | 726489 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Will they not rise up and demand more free lunches from the productive?

How? They just finished spending all the aggregate savings. That's the "free lunch". But now there are no real savings left to withdraw. Only nominal ones.

Moving forward, any future free lunches must be provided from value yet to be created. The previously created and saved value is all used up, so here comes currency debasement on a monumental scale. I'm not creating value for that, how 'bout you?

Sure, we can expect them to try to foil it, which has been going on for some time, but sometimes, despite the best efforts, you just can't win when you're pissing into to wind.

 It has an array of powerful enemies.

It has a more powerful array of allies, IMO. Pretty much everyone outside the West, for a start. And if they understood the implications, everyone inside the West too.

The only losers in the long run will be the G-men, and I think they've had a pretty good run.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:25 | 726538 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Well try explaining to the people on the dole that they would be better off on the system.  Likely they would be, but they are getting free stuff now.  And people who get used to free stuff like continuing.  So I would expect to see riots and maybe even coups for govs trying to put in real fiscal reforms which would be necessary under freegold...well or simply blasting their currency into infinity to pay the nominal amounts at least.  I suppose just letting hyperinflation wipe people out would break them of their habits, but that's a hard purge.

And I cannot look at everyone outside the West as a unified group.  Most all nations love to debase.  Pick most any nation in the world and you'll see a lot of debasing, and public debt.  The West just happens to be the most egregious perpetrators.  I still struggle with the idea that the nominal gains on gold will not be taxed and it will be free to move from place ot place.  It's 180 degrees against what exists in much of the world. and against the nature of gov to use inflation as a tax to rob value from hard assets, US taxed as a collectible for example.  Though I hear can do that in the EU, which is a plus.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:41 | 726565 nuinut
nuinut's picture

How happy are the people on the dole?


The govt need reform almost nothing. Simply let paper gold fail; it's going to anyway, so tat won't be hard. As soon as one govt institutes it, it must be implemented by all, exactly the same as FDIC was implemented worldwide for the same reason - do it, or the value will flee your jurisdiction. They have no choice.

Tax gold? Why Tax Freegold?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:54 | 726585 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Happy enough to be on it.  I have distant relations, many of whom are proud to not have worked most of their adult lives.  They pursue their various hobbies or do side jobs.  Most all of them could be productive members of society but have chosen not to be, and would be pissed if anyone took away to goody train and forced them to actually work for a living.  So do not assume that all layabouts are unhappy.  I had a roommate way back that had milking the system down to a science, so he could pursue a higher calling...playing MMOs in his boxers all day.  Thought I was a fool to hold down a full time job and go to school full time.

As to the tax, some jurisdictions don't want more capital flow because of the distortions it could cause in the local economy.  Now I'm inclined to think that hard asset capital in the terms of freegold would act differently then magically printed fun bux, but some jurisdictions I can see trying it.  And getting it out is harder then just walking out with it, or is likely to be so.  If they just let me walk it out of country then of course capital controls would be a huge mistake, but look at TSA.  They are not adverse to getting their perv on now, and I don't think many of us are willing to fly with a roll of Eagles crammed where the sun don't shine :)  But hopefully you are right and the market would force discipline by brutally punishing those who did try to tax it post revaluation.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 02:31 | 727011 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Bottom line:  In the future, moochers will either have to be productive, or starve!

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 03:40 | 727092 nuinut
nuinut's picture


Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:01 | 727214 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


The degree of debasement is absolutely proportional to the amount of "free" sold. To be a free people, we must first live through the de-free withdrawal back to reality and simple mathematics. Algebra began as a fair trade  solution to equate each side (= the right trade) with different amounts of items in the mix. Solve for a good deal.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:42 | 726954 chopper read
chopper read's picture

nuinut, it would be nice to see the pendulum swing back towards this direction.  will we experience death and destruction before the powers-that-be realize that they cannot bludgeon savers, investors, and wealth creators into submission, but rather must do quite the opposite for the benefit of everyone?  

of course, just like FDR, they are not going to hand over power, but rather keep meddling and making the system more complex.  The endgame is outright tyranny (we are not far off now) which may give way to a revolution and the restoration of a Republic of Laws. 

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:39 | 726447 nuinut
nuinut's picture

 ...cannot fathom how Freegold would survive the real world.

More a case of the real world having to adapt to survive Freegold.

All those "shysters, hucksters, debtors" are currently enabled by the monetary system. Change the system, and they must change too.

Freegold will accentuate the more positive aspects of human nature, rather than the negative ones the current system encourages.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:50 | 726474 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Of course they are enabled by the current monetary system!  Now is it some happy coincidence that certain powerful people were able to get in on the ground floor, or did they plan it?  In any event they will not willingly give it up unless they can gain more value in teh new system.  Now let us assume they see Freegold coming, they would position themselves to benefit.  That makes sense I can see that. However after the transition of value then they will have every incentive to fire up the current looter monetary system in a generation (or ASAP maybe shorter or longer time frame) to begin the pillage once more.

I cannot fathom how large powerful players (BIS) would help freegold in when in the long term it denies them an avenue of power.  It makes sense for a short term gain and to reset the credibility clock.  I simply cannot see staying on it indefinitely.  Maybe our generation would not go back, but I have no doubt people would fall into the same trap they are in today.  Lessons are never learned.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:07 | 726501 nuinut
nuinut's picture

However after the transition of value then they will have every incentive to fire up the current looter monetary system in a generation (or ASAP maybe shorter or longer time frame) to begin the pillage once more.

I disagree. The stored value in their gold (and we know they own plenty) will continue to expand as value is added the world over in the future. Think of physical gold as an equity position in the whole of humanity, because that is what Freegold is. 

Imagine buying APPL at first issue, but this is the whole world at first issue.

I like the long term prospects of all human ingenuity and effort a lot better than APPL.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:18 | 726528 Shameful
Shameful's picture

So the nominal value of gold will continue to rise?  Ok that's fine but that supports my argument about people wanting to keep all savings in gold and immediately moving all funds into gold that are not immediately spent IE same day.  If it's openly acknowledged the currency is a rotting piece of trash then it makes using it for exchange a bit harder.  Gold would be cashed in JIT to pay bills and make purchases (assuming low to no transaction cost, and high costs would be a barrier to freegold it seems).  Who would be crazy enough to lend except for short periods of time or at extreme rates when they can watch a fine nominal gain in their gold holdings?  After all rates would have to be high enough to justify the risks of keeping value in the transaction currency rather then gold, when gold is constantly rising.  This would point to a world with little or limited debt, and that is a world I think the big banks would be less then enthused about.

I'm all for this world, but it's a bit of a stretch for me to believe that this world is being engineered when there is a lot less apparent control in it.  It's like the Politburo planning a free USSR, it doesn't make much sense.  After all most all govs enjoy seignorage to some extent, and it seems odd they would willingly remove it from their bag of tricks.


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:29 | 726544 nuinut
nuinut's picture

I see no future for lending.

Currency will not be worthless, or "rotting in value" unless its issuer is issuing it irresponsibly.

Freegold brings immediate consequences to those over-issuing: an eroding exchange rate for gold.

People will regain confidence in paper soon enough for their short-term expenses. It is extremely efficient when not being debased. 

Banking as we know it is toast.

 govs enjoy seignorage to some extent, and it seems odd they would willingly remove it from their bag of tricks

I maintain this loss is offset permanently with their gold holdings. Gold can be invested as equity in value creating business, because gold is but a proxy for value. As long as value is being created, gold is going up, relatively speaking.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:45 | 726563 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Right the nominal value of gold in a currency would not go up if that currency was not being actively printed.  Which means ideally the floating price of gold would be static.  Now if this was the case it would be no different then a gold standard.  IE I get $XXXXX and can exchange that for Y grams of gold, and the same would be true a month from now.  If that is static that's a de facto gold standard.  If it's fluctuating that's fine but history tells us it will fluctuate down far more then up, so the gov would have to find the sweet spot that the people would accept for watching their work go up in smoke.

As to the govs investing, what happens when they invest their gold and lose their shirts?  Traditionally govs have been quite excellent at losing money and investing in negative ROI enterprises.  I suppose they could make up for it with taxes, but that naturally would encourage gold and the people holding it to leave should the taxes get to high.

It really looks like a great world, which is why I have a hard time seeing it happen.  I find myself in an Outer Limits episode and voices from the machine are telling me the dream world is just around the corner.  Also have thoroughly enjoyed the conversation so thank you!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:49 | 726580 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Right the nominal value of gold in a currency would not go up if that currency was not being actively printed.  Which means ideally the floating price of gold would be static.

No. It would not be static, it will continue to rise in all currencies as long as value is created in the world, and some of the excess of this value is stored in gold.

As to the govs investing, what happens when they invest their gold and lose their shirts?

No one will be forced to chase a return on their capital any longer, if it is stored in Freegold it is perfectly hedged against "inflation", thus due diligence can be performed. You are quite right, malinvestment will be a dead loss, so it will be heavily disincentivized' no?

It really looks like a great world, which is why I have a hard time seeing it happen.

I hear what you're saying, but that's not really a good reason, is it?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:01 | 726598 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Ok so if I'm reading this right then before an equity investment the person would need to conform for themselves that the ROI would be higher then the ROI of just letting the gold sit.  That would on it's face help eliminate malinvestment in that your right in that people would not be forced into yield chasing just to stay in place.  Yeah that will pretty much devastate the currant finance system so not only banks gone but a lot of the finance system with it.

"I hear what you're saying, but that's not really a good reason, is it?"

No but I got raised learning that if something sounds to good to be true, it is.  I suppose it's more plausible in that most people are light on gold holdings so some big players and nations would benefit from it.  But if there is such a large benefit why not pull the trigger now?  What is keeping the ECB from just doing it right now?  Seems like it would solve the bailout problem like a snap since a lot of the failing EU states have a decent gold reserve.  Or even the US assuming we didn't sell/lease it all into the market.  Or Saudi Arabia to make the announcement they will be selling oil for gold, especially with the miners trying to clear their hedge book?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:30 | 726628 nuinut
nuinut's picture

 But if there is such a large benefit why not pull the trigger now? 

IMHO, they are waiting for the people to find it themselves. There will be a lot of pain in the short term. People need to understand that they got themselves into this predicament, and take their medicine willingly, rather than by decree.

As hyperinflation becomes obvious, and very painful to all, gold will be recognized as the only available pressure release mechanism we have, and the system will be crashed by the run to gold. It will dawn on most everyone practically simultaneously.

This is a choice, a collective choice, that we need to make for ourselves. I would not want to be the one to implement this. Short-term, too much pain looking for scapegoats. It's different if you make the choice yourself.

The giants established themselves years ago. They have no need to be 100% gold, as they will be better than fully recapitalized with perhaps only 5% gold going in. More than that and you are coming out ahead of the game. It doesn't work if the gold is all concentrated  in too few hands anyway.

Lots of Asian peasants will be very happy.


I need to be elsewhere for next 2- 2.5 hours, but will come back to this thread then, if you're still around. Thanks for the dialogue, and I hope to pick it up again.

I agree, I have no interest in "too good to be true" either. This intrigues me though, because not only does it appear plausible, but I actually don't see another plausible resolution. 






Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:30 | 726644 Shameful
Shameful's picture

The giants have always given me problems as well. If they know the change is coming they would be aggressively bidding the public market as much as they can without tipping their hand to the other giants. Game theory says that if they know this is going to happen that they should buy up as much as possible to profit from it on the transition trusting that the other giants will abide by an agreement not to buy.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:30 | 726878 nuinut
nuinut's picture

Like I said, as long as they have better than 5% or so of their wealth in gold, they are coming out ahead, IMO. The hand was tipped to the Asians in about '96-97 according to Another, who have been on the buy ever since, whilst trying not to crash the market. If they crash the market their flow stops at the cheap rates. I believe this conforms with your interpretation of game theory?

The Chinese in particular are playing catch-up. Look at their mines- at current rates of extraction, they will all be exhausted inside 10 years. That's not normal. They have their reasons, clearly.

Encouraging Chinese citizens to purchase physical further fits this MO.

As long as they are producers of value in the future, they will continue to accrue gold, but this (pre-revaluation) stuff is cheap

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:46 | 726953 Shameful
Shameful's picture

No China according to Another totally fits into game theory.  It's what the situation would force for them to do, accumulate for as long as they can as cheap as they can before the bomb goes off.  I can even see Saudi Arabia as they basically bought future gold so they are better paid to wait and collect their gold futures.  The US would fit in well because they want the status-quo.  But the EU is the player that makes no sense.  Their position will get no better, indeed it will get more balanced away from them, so comparatively they will be weaker.  From my read of the data which is incomplete it would make sense for the ECB and the BIS to kick the pig now and actually go into the market and start bidding.  This would put more pressure on the $IMFS system and force the US into a situation where they have to sell gold or shorten their lifespan.  It also puts a clock on Saudi Arabia and China and cuts them out.  The only negative I see about the ECB/EU position is the gold being held by them at FRBY.  But that gold is "lost" so ti would be in the best interest of ECB/EU members to put their bid in now.

This seems to me that if the plot was happening then the ECB should be printing Euros to put a bid out for gold.  Now I have no idea if they are or are not doing this, but assuming freegold, and that they know it will happen then it's a gimmie.  All the gold they get is less gold for Saudi Arabia/Asia and gives them an edge stepping into the next phase.

EDIT:  Ok this just hit me like a ton of bricks.  We all know about the swap lines from the Fed to EU banks.  This makes little sense, aside from system risk and really that could be the ECB handling it.  However if looking at Freegold I there is a rational.  The EU banking system could be holding the $IMFS hostage!  "Give me dollars or we pull the plug now and kick on freegold".  I could still see them putting a bid in for gold, but it would make sense why the Fed is basically handing them dollars.  Kick the can and all.  I notice Trichet is remarkably cool with QE2 while the rest of the world is screaming bloody murder.  So now I wonder if the ECB is holding the $IMFS hostage...

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:27 | 726966 nuinut
nuinut's picture

This comment from Paul in recent FOFOA comments section (here) addresses the ECB position, though the wording is a pisstake on Yoda, the content is good:

Allow debt defaults to destroy the euro system, the ECB will not, but walk right to the very edge and peer over, they will. Purpose, this brinksmanship has. Want its major reserve asset to appreciate as far and as fast as possible, the ECB do. This revaluation, dependant on fear, both devalue the euro and recapitalize the banking system, will. But, also destroy the $IMF system, will it, so be seen to promote it the ECB must not. Afoot, a very delicate game is. Delicate, but for the highest stakes in history, it is played.

I like your ton of bricks, it makes sense.

I would also call to your attention the remarks of Ender, here.



Mon, 11/15/2010 - 05:27 | 727144 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

"Blondie" and Shameful, one hell of a thread!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:55 | 726310 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Screw the G20.  There is a mass delusion in these exporter nations that their stupid mercantilist ways can continue.

They are as out of touch as we are, and don't get me started on freaking China.  Do these mercantilists actually BELIEVE that what they are doing is a tenable enterprise?

BOTH sides are clueless.  The notion that the US can continue to fund THEIR growth with OUR debt is as absurd as that the US can magically start PRODUCING shit when we have about a DOZEN nations actively trying to practice PREDATORY trade against us and take AWAY our production base.  Hell, China makes a national pursuit of STEALING intellectual property outright!  The world is FLOODED with counterfeit shit produced there.  Is the Italian government supposed to sit by while China leeches off the goodwill created by the Italian luxury brands?  Or how about Switzerland seeing as how China leads the world in knockoff Swiss watches?

The European national champions are NO DIFFERENT from what China does.  Airbus has been dumping state-subsidized planes on the market for decades while Boeing lives off of defense contracts.  The whole damned world economy is a joke and it's incumbent upon the "creditor" nations to accept their role in this mess.

But any suggestion that Germany or China or Brazil need to normalize trade flows is met with immense opposition or outright hostility and indignation.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:01 | 726315 Bob
Bob's picture

<tippy toe, tippy toe> . . . China!

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:36 | 726370 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Nice insight there trav.

The USA can survive and rebuild, that I am convinced of. Personally I'm waiting for the implosion so we can get started and once again lead the way.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:24 | 726436 zelter
zelter's picture

Upon what considerations? Let's not forget that the ethnic demographics have been altered beyond usual repair; now the United States has a permanent, fast-breeding eleemosynary darkie class that can never recover in lockstep, and so won't everyone else. You're never going to live in anything but a Third World country once it blows up anyway -- if only because of the contractionary future in terms of resources.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:10 | 726508's picture

You're never going to live in anything but a Third World country once it blows up anyway -- if only because of the contractionary future in terms of resources.

I disagree. "The system" devalues the most important resource of all: the independent man. Once his chains are cut you're going to see something big.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:35 | 726548 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

These are not the times where virgin, resource rich nations are waiting to be tapped. Where goest thou from here, Davey?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:21 | 726732 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Space! The final frontier.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:17 | 726818's picture

These are not the times where virgin, resource rich nations are waiting to be tapped


Malthus be damned. Let the innovators innovate and there will be plenty for everybody.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:51 | 726672 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

zelter,   I take it your a fan of Hermstein and Murray.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:20 | 726729 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Yo Zelter: The black population % was higher during the American Revolution. Since then, interracial relations have lightened some skin colors. Dooh! 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:04 | 727217 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture

Momma said, "If you can't get in the House, let the House come in you."

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:51 | 726394 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"Screw the G20."

Yep, that was O's theory too.

But I like yours better ;-)

- Ned

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:20 | 726434 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Like any addiction, it will continue until a) The addict hits a bottom that is low enough to wake up and start digging out of or b) It kills them.  Either way, it is going to take pain and sacrifice to get away from the debt pushers.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:38 | 726449 Wondering
Wondering's picture

Great post Trav 777

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:53 | 726480 dkny
dkny's picture

With all due respect, counterfeit bags and watches are hardly an issue for most people. If some companies want to try and sell goods at obscene margins to manufacturing costs, then let them try, but don't force the taxpayers to support their margins by paying for enforcement.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:38 | 726763 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

It's not just luxury goods.  It's music, DVD's, intellectual property and design of all kinds.  The Chinese steal it all.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:29 | 726880 chindit13
chindit13's picture

I agree.  Let's have generic everything!  Zils, Mao suits and elevator music.  And anyone clever enough to come up with a great life saving idea, like a pharmaceutical that could cure cancer but would be expensive to develop, can just keep quiet and avoid being taken by some generic Chinese or Indian drug maker.  Let's open source the entire world, and replace incentive with pure human altruism.  That ought to work.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 10:22 | 727380 trav7777
trav7777's picture

spoken like a person who has a counterfeit swiss watch on right now!

how about you invent something and let's see the Chinese steal it?

They steal everything that they can get their hands on.

BTW, I don't care about what is or is not an "issue" for "most people," as I am not persuaded by logical fallacies such as argumentum ad populum

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:58 | 726593 Wondering
Wondering's picture

This is not going to unwind without a phase that is about who takes the biggest hit: our elites or theirs; our people or theirs

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 21:22 | 726734 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

It could all unwind in a few days, as panics usually do - no phase needed.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:37 | 726887 chindit13
chindit13's picture

People won't play fair?  Who would have known?

You've hit on one of the intractable problems of international "trade".  Without the buyer of last resort, China would still be burning antiques for firewood and melting plowshares into steel ingots.  Without a total lack of respect for intellectual property rights, China might not even have electricity.  There is no miracle in buying off the shelf, even less of a miracle in stealing off the shelf.  Miracle gets tossed around even more than hero and genius.  And some thought it was only fiat money that got depreciated.

The absence of trade wars only requires a greater fool.  The US has long played that role, at least with Asia.  Sure the US has plenty of direct and indirect subsidies (as you said Boeing is a prime beneficiary), but consider the trade flows between the US and South Korea.  The US is a ten lane highway compared to SK.  Look at motor vehicles.  And if one wants to argue that Hyundais and Kias are superior to Fords and that alone explains the one way flow, then look at how many Hondas and Toyotas get imported into South Korea.

I am reminded of the greatest theft in the history of the modern world, and I don't mean what Wall Street did the last five years.  I am referring to the integrated circuit.

Jack Kilby of TI first developed the IC back in 1959.  Patents were applied for around the world, including Japan.  The former MITI of Japan gave all of the technical data re Kilby's IC to NEC, Hitachi, Toshiba, MEC, etc., who then began to develop, produce and sell their own IC's, albeit without all of the original development costs, and totally ignoring the IP rights.  Thirty years of robust Japanese growth followed, largely a result of electronics.

The government of Japan finally granted Kilby and TI the patent in 1989.  Perhaps ironically, that was the same year the Nikkei peaked at 38,915.87

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 02:23 | 727008 Miles Kendig
Miles Kendig's picture


Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:47 | 727240 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Chindit, I was the Director for Technology Development and Strategy for one of the largest companies in the world by market cap in the late 90's.

Trust me, the Chinese did not steal anything. They were given it all on a platter. Nefarious design, short-sightedness, whatever. There was a central thrust: support China, costs be damned, outsource to china, china china, all the time. Scholarships for Chinese University students, hiring of chinese engineers internally. Name it, we had to do it. 

Now this company had a large chunk of it's "profit" through defense contracts. So, they were obeying diktats from up on high.

From my view on the ground back then, it was a planned strategy to bulk up China.

The parallels between bulking up Germany in the 30's and China in the 90's is startlingly, chillingly obvious, in my view.

There is a war coming. Another open, grand one, unlike this sneaky war on terror.

China is a major player, obviously. Counterpoint to an Israel controlled and armed India.

We'll see a fast re-alignment, Taiwan dumped into China's Jaws, Pakistan into Anarchy and India into willing subjugation to it's masters whims.

Point being again, the Chinese did not need to do anything. What they have today was handed to them. They just took it and ran with it. The FDI numbers tell a tale all of their own. The Italian govt. is probably an investor in China too. I think they care not a flying figlet for Dolce and Gabbana.

Liberty Ships, anyone? 


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:56 | 726311 been there done that
been there done that's picture

The natives are getting restless. Today I saw this

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:09 | 726331 flattrader
flattrader's picture

Yes, just restless natives.

It's clearly a function of the backlog and the desperation of those waiting for a decision on their claim.

Nothing revolutionary.

When someone takes a shot at Angelo Mozzilo (or someone of his ilk), then we'll know something's changed.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:42 | 726376 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Lawlessness on Wall Street, in Congress, and a bit more moral hazard in the financial/economic arena will send the clear message to Main Street that law can be enforced, and justice can be had, the the point of a...  well, you know the rest.  And I don't mean a pitchfork.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 08:11 | 727220 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


Angelo was like any other active Tiger when the zoo attendants let the cages remain open. The regulators were ordered to stand down in a perfevtly granular fashion week by week and it was they who raised the temperature in the frog pond. Let Angelo be bronze, shuite yourself!

It won't change, Until you do.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:19 | 726621 Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

You know, threats of violence are really nothing, coming from the group of people trying to get on disability. I can attest from personal experience - a tenant in one of my rentals has been trying for six months, and even though she's able to do plenty of different kinds of "work" is just too much of a lazy, fat-ass, scumbag redneck bitch to actually try and improve her lot in life by either getting a god-blessed job or maybe selling some of her shit on ebay. The house is full of the usual trash and this couple spends $150/month on their 2 cell phones. I find them to be utter garbage as far as human life is concerned.

Actually, the husband isn't bad, Navy guy, but not real bright. The woman's a total loser, will try anything to get money by not working. I wish I could find a reason to have any little bit of respect for her, but I can't.

To think that people like this would get upset at not getting a handout is easy. That they'd actually go through with it, doubtful. But, really, shouldn't about 70% of the people on welfare and food stamps not be getting benefits. They all look pretty healthy to me. Have them clean up the streets, after lowing the minimum wage of course, to about $3.00 an hour. Maybe then they'd think about getting a real job. 

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 00:13 | 726928 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I know your story because I owned a property management business for most of the 1980s.  Section 8 housing was not a specialty but we got our share of it by taking on properties from several owners who just couldn't run them any longer.  I was saved from being thrown over a second story balcony by my plumber who just happened to be there wielding a 12 inch pipe wrench.  All I asked for was the rent.  This guy had at least 3 of the apartments "staffed" by women who were cutting him part of the rent and food assistance checks.  The children would be shuttled from apartment to apartment to be with their "mothers" when the social workers visited.   I still shudder after all this time.

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 01:04 | 726974 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

So what is new? In 1990 it took my aunt 3 years to get a hearing before a circuit social security judge. If it now takes 2 years that is some imporvement.

If the SS administration would not automatically deny all SS disability claims then the system would not be backlogged. By denying all claims people are forced to hire a lawyer to do their bidding with the SS administration and pay the lawyer a per centage of the claim once it is apporved (assuming it is approved).

If a person enters the SS administration on a stretcher, attended by a nurse because they are expiring of terminal cancer, they are still denied and must go through the treadmill. If they are approved for SS disability, they are paid from the date that they applied and their attorney gets a portion of the lump sum back payment.

The system stinks, especially for those that are truly ill or unable to work, as my 59 year old aunt was. She paid into SS for 44 years and was never out of work or worked under the table. The family supported her while she waited for her hearing.


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 16:57 | 726312 Anal Picnic
Anal Picnic's picture

The new currency will be digital and will be uploaded to an embedded chip in your arm. Purchases will be recorded by a secure scanner. The chip will be WiFi enabled for instant deposit.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:16 | 726342 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

I know where they should put yours.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:18 | 726348 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture


Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:16 | 726343 Clapham Junction
Clapham Junction's picture

No need for that, um, Anal.

I can already guess where your money is.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 19:41 | 726562 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Has the same living quarters as his brain and pet gerbil. Both somewhat ratty.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 20:10 | 726609 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

My moms sisters fathers brothers cousin had one of those implants. Her name was Britney. She worked for the NSA. I guess she was like a guinea pig, everybody called her that but she was thin.

She lived down in Little Rock, Arkansas and she had a get-away cabin in Hot Springs down by the lake. We went to her cabin once and she was like "look at my arm", and we were like "oooh, that's gross". It was gross because it had big Frankenstein stitches and then you could see the green colored board under here arm.

Your life is about to be radically altered. It's going to start down on the border of US and Mexico. The gangs are going to stage a coup. They will then attack America. Gun control, suspension of constitutional rights, Fed crashes currency.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 22:21 | 726821's picture

Don't they have aunts, grandfathers and great uncles where you come from? What's with the mother's sister's father routine?

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:00 | 726320 jomama
jomama's picture

the sooner the unwind the better.  however, TPTB have been amazingly adept at being able to postpone this day of reckoning.  enough to the point where i wonder if it's even going to happen. 

they'll try to whitewash fraudclosuregate and roll over the debt to the new currency. problem solved.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 18:13 | 726422 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture


I agree with you.  For months I've been struggling to decide if I should cash out my meager 401k, pay out the penalties and buy au with whatever is left.  I already have a small amount of pm coins.  When the system resets, will any money in retirement plans be rolled into the new currency or we will get shafted again?  I'm leaning toward shafted again since the sheeple still don't seem to understand what's happening.  That tells me TPTB will be controlling the new system as well and it'll be BOHICA for the likes of me....

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 23:20 | 726869 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture
Watchman's Cry Radio Program (Tues 11-02-10): Listen here!


Two link choices:

  If that link does not work, try this one:

Show topics:

1. The Election - Is there a political solution?
2. A trip down memory lane.
3. Bill Clinton, Bush Jr. and a consumer society.
4. Todd Bentley, his accomplices, and the Great Delusion
5. The Fed and Quantitative Easing ver. 2
6. Coming Austerity measures
7. A prophetic dream - the eagle and the fox. (The US Government will steal retirement funds.)

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 03:07 | 727039 Mariposa de Oro
Mariposa de Oro's picture

What an interesting point of view he has.  Thanks for sharing.  Are you a regular listener?

Mon, 11/15/2010 - 06:58 | 727178 Green Leader
Green Leader's picture

You're welcome.

No, the guy did not admit me into his private forum. I disagree w/ his views on the Sabbath and his overall prepping. Chemtrails change the whole game...

I do think he is indeed getting true dreams & that, unfortunately, he's doing all that prepping to fall into a trap. His fault.

FYI: I cashed in my last 401K to buy more prepping stuff: generator, Xantrex inverter, several CB radios, good antennas, a used industrial grade towing cart (from a compressor/generator rig), old Mack truck diesel tank, etc.

I do plan to keep a few stashes of crisp $1, $5 & $10 "Federal Reserve Notes" because cash is really going to become scarce, I think. Also save your pre-1982 pennies and nickels, ASAP.

Sun, 11/14/2010 - 17:01 | 726321 Blah Blah Blah
Blah Blah Blah's picture

So, am I screwed, or not?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!