Bill Gross: "College Is Worthless"

A few weeks ago we pointed out what may be the most troubling (and Marxist) observation in America's labor arena, namely that the labor's share of national income has dropped to the lowest in history as a record number of Americans now focus on wealth creation through assets (i.e. owners of capital) instead of labor. In his just released latest letter (below) Bill Gross piggybacks on this observation in what is one of the most scathing notes blasting the traditional of higher education, and in essence claiming that college, as means of perpetuating a broken employment status quo whcih redirect labor to a now-expiring Wall Street labor model, is now worthless: "The past
several decades have witnessed an erosion of our manufacturing base in
exchange for a reliance on wealth creation via financial assets. Now,
as that road approaches a dead-end cul-de-sac via interest rates that
can go no lower, we are left untrained, underinvested and overindebted
relative to our global competitors. The precipitating
cause of our structural employment break is both internal neglect and
external competition. Blame us. Blame them. There’s plenty of blame to
go around." And why college graduates have only a 6 digit loan to look forward to: "American citizens and its universities have experienced an ivy-laden ivory tower for the past half century. Students, however, can no longer assume that a four year degree will be the golden ticket to a good job in a global economy that cares little for their social networking skills and more about what their labor is worth on the global marketplace." And some very bad news for the communists in the White House and the chimpanzees in the San Francisco Fed who continue to believe that unemployment is anything but structural: "The “golden” days are over, and it’s time our school and jobs “daze” comes to an end to be replaced by programs that do more than mimic failed establishment policies favoring Wall as opposed to Main Street."

From Bill Gross of PIMCO

School Daze, School Daze Good Old Golden Rule Days

• The
  past several decades have witnessed an erosion of our manufacturing
  base in exchange for a reliance on wealth creation via financial assets.
•  Fiscal balance alone will not likely produce 20 million jobs over
  the next decade. Government must take a leading role in job creation. 
• A growing number of skeptics wonder whether college is worth the time or the cost.

A mind is a precious thing to waste, so why are millions of America’s
students wasting theirs by going to college? All of us who have been
there know an undergraduate education is primarily a four year vacation
interrupted by periodic bouts of cramming or Google plagiarizing, but at
least it used to serve a purpose. It weeded out underachievers and
proved at a minimum that you could pass an SAT test. For those who made
it to the good schools,
it proved that your parents had enough money to either bribe
administrators or hire SAT tutors to increase your score by 500 points.
And a degree represented that the graduate could “party hearty” for long
stretches of time and establish social networking skills that would
prove invaluable later on at office cocktail parties or interactively
via Facebook. College was great as long as the jobs were there.

Now, however, a growing number of skeptics wonder whether it’s worth the time or
the cost. Peter Thiel, an early investor in Facebook and head of
Clarium Capital, a long-standing hedge fund, has actually established a
foundation to give 20 $100,000 grants to teenagers who would drop out of
school and become not just tech entrepreneurs but world-changing
visionaries. College, in his and the minds of many others, is
stultifying and outdated – overpriced and mismanaged – with very little
value created despite the bump in earnings power that universities use
as their raison d’être in our modern world of money.

Fact: College tuition
has increased at a rate 6% higher than the general rate of inflation for
the past 25 years, making it four times as expensive relative to other
goods and services as it was in 1985. Subjective explanation:
University administrators have a talent for increasing top line
revenues via tuition, but lack the spine necessary to upgrade academic
productivity. Professorial tenure and outdated curricula focusing on
liberal arts instead of a more practical global agenda focusing on math
and science are primary culprits.

Fact: The average
college graduate now leaves school with $24,000 of debt and total
student loans now exceed this nation’s credit card debt at $1.0 trillion
and counting (7% of our national debt). Subjective explanation:
Universities are run for the benefit of the adult establishment, both
politically and financially, not students. To radically change the
system and to question the sanctity of a college education would be to
jeopardize trillions of misdirected investment dollars and financial
obligations.

Conclusion to ponder:
American citizens and its universities have experienced an ivy-laden
ivory tower for the past half century. Students, however, can no longer
assume that a four year degree will be the golden ticket to a good job
in a global economy that cares little for their social networking skills
and more about what their labor is worth on the global marketplace.

Fareed Zakaria, as usual, has a well-thought-out solution. “We need,”
he writes, “a program as ambitious as the GI Bill,” but one that
focuses on retraining existing unemployed workers and redirecting our
future students. Instead of liberal arts, he suggests focusing on
technical education, technical institutes and polytechnics as well as
apprenticeship programs. Our penchant for focusing on high tech
value-added jobs should be modified and redirected, he claims, to mimic
the German path, which allows people with good technical skills but
limited college education to earn a decent living.

One thing college does do is to keep 25 million students off the
unemployment rolls, much like it did for me when I went on my own four
year vacation. The world was a different oyster in 1966, however, and it
behooves America to recognize the reversal and the necessity for
significant changes if it is to compete in the global marketplace of the
21st century.

It is becoming obvious that the 2012 election will be fought on a
battlefield of job creation. A 9.1% official unemployment rate, and a
number nearly double that when discouraged and part-time workers are
included in the rolls, portend an angry and disillusioned electorate,
which will include millions of jobless college graduates ill-trained to
compete in the global marketplace. Over the past 10 years under both
Democratic and Republican administrations, only 1.8 million jobs have
been created while the available labor force has grown by over 15
million. It is clear, however, that neither party has an awareness of the why or the wherefores of how to put America back to work again.
Few economic advisors from either party ever mention structural
long-term disconnects in employment – a recognition that cyclical
influences will no longer dominate the U.S. labor market. Manufacturing
and goods exports have ceded enormous ground to China and other
developing labor markets, as America’s reliance on services and high
tech innovation has exposed gaping holes in an historically successful
model. Almost any industry dominated or significantly connected to
finance and financial leverage has hit the canvas and stayed down in the
aftermath of Lehman 2008. Housing construction, real estate brokerage,
banking and consumer retail employment will likely never come back to
levels dominated by our prior decade’s excessive leverage and its abuse
leading to overconsumption. Because of that focus, a “shovel-ready,”
vigorous manufacturing sector is not there to pick up the slack.

Similarly, the high tech paragons of the 21st century – Apple, Microsoft, Google, Facebook et al. – never were
employers of high school or B.A. college graduates in significant
numbers. Production of hardware, to the extent that any was needed,
quickly gravitated to foreign ports of call where workers were willing
to produce an excellent product for 1/10th of the U.S. wage. The past
several decades have witnessed an erosion of our manufacturing base in
exchange for a reliance on wealth creation via financial assets. Now,
as that road approaches a dead-end cul-de-sac via interest rates that
can go no lower, we are left untrained, underinvested and overindebted
relative to our global competitors. The precipitating
cause of our structural employment break is both internal neglect and
external competition. Blame us. Blame them. There’s plenty of blame to
go around.

Solutions from policymakers on the right or left, however, seem
focused almost exclusively on rectifying or reducing our budget deficit
as a panacea. While Democrats favor tax increases and mild adjustments
to entitlements, Republicans pound the table for trillions of dollars of
spending cuts and an axing of Obamacare. Both, however,
somewhat mystifyingly, believe that balancing the budget will magically
produce 20 million jobs over the next 10 years. President
Obama’s long-term budget makes just such a claim and Republican
alternatives go many steps further. Former Governor Pawlenty of
Minnesota might be the Republicans’ extreme example, but his claim of 5%
real growth based on tax cuts and entitlement reductions comes out of
left field or perhaps the field of dreams. The United States has not had
a sustained period of 5% real growth for nearly 60 years.

Both parties, in fact, are moving to anti-Keynesian policy
orientations, which deny additional stimulus and make rather awkward and
unsubstantiated claims that if you balance the budget, “they will
come.” It is envisioned that corporations or investors will somehow
overnight be attracted to the revived competitiveness of the U.S. labor
market: Politicians feel that fiscal conservatism equates to job growth.
It’s difficult to believe, however, that an American-based corporation,
with profits as its primary focus, can somehow be wooed back to
American soil with a feeble and historically unjustified assurance that
Social Security will be now secure or that medical care inflation will disinflate. Admittedly,
those are long-term requirements for a stable and healthy economy, but
fiscal balance alone will not likely produce 20 million jobs over the
next decade. The move towards it, in fact, if implemented too quickly, could stultify economic growth. Fed
Chairman Bernanke has said as much, suggesting the urgency of a
congressional medium-term plan to reduce the deficit but that immediate
cuts are self-defeating if they were to undercut the still-fragile
economy.

Academics also point to a theory known as Ricardian equivalence, a
notion named after David Ricardo from the early 19th century. His ivory
tower theorem was that consumers would become more and more confident of
their financial future if in fact they believed that their own
government’s exuberance would be held in check. Balance the U.S. or any
government budget, he prophesized, and the private sector would extend
and lever theirs. Well, commonsensically and anecdotally, I know of no
family who, after watching the Republican candidates’ debate in New
Hampshire, went out the next day and bought themselves a flat screen
under the assumption that their Medicare entitlements would be cut in
future years and the U.S. budget balanced. Ricardo and his “equivalence”
belong in the trash bin of theses and research aimed more towards
academics than a practical remedy to America’s job crisis.

What then, shall we do? My preferred solution has long- term elements, which includes the opening language in this Investment Outlook,
concerning the value of a college education as currently structured.
Peter Thiel may be on to something, but all of our kids just can’t up
and quit college à la Bill Gates. Still, if we are to compete globally
while maintaining a higher wage base, we must train for “middle” in
addition to “high” tech. Philosophy, sociology and liberal arts agendas
will no longer suffice. Skill-based education is a must, as is science
and math.

Additionally and immediately, however, government must take a leading
role in job creation. Conservative or even liberal agendas that cede
responsibility for job creation to the private sector over the next few
years are simply dazed or perhaps crazed. The private sector is the
source of long-term job creation but in the short term, no rational
observer can believe that global or even small businesses will invest here when the labor over there
is so much cheaper. That is why trillions of dollars of corporate cash
rest impotently on balance sheets awaiting global – non-U.S. –
investment opportunities. Our labor force is too expensive and poorly
educated for today’s marketplace.

In the near term, then, we should not rely solely on job or
corporate-directed payroll tax credits because corporations may not take
enough of that bait, and they’re sitting pretty as it is. Government
must step up to the plate, as it should have in early 2009. An
infrastructure bank to fund badly needed reconstruction projects is a
commonly accepted idea, despite the limitations of the original
“shovel-ready” stimulus program in 2009. Disparate experts such as GE’s
Jeff Immelt, Fareed Zakaria, Jeffrey Sachs and Paul Krugman believe an
infrastructure bank to be an excellent use of deficit funds: a true investment
in our future. While the current administration admits that the $25
billion in Recovery Act spending on infrastructure only created 150,000
jobs, it also stabilized and improved this nation’s productivity for
years to come. Clean/green energy investments also come to mind, most of
which require government funding and a government thrust in order to
create millions of jobs. China knows this and is off and running. The
U.S. needs to learn from their state-oriented model. In times of
extremis, pushing on the private sector string is ineffective,
especially within the context of a global marketplace that offers
alternative investment locations. Government must temporarily assume a bigger, not a smaller,
role in this economy, if only because other countries are dominating
job creation with kick-start policies that eventually dominate global
markets.

And how about at least an intelligent discussion on “trade policy”
which incorporates more than just a symbolic bashing of Chinese currency
relative to the dollar. Who, from either side of the aisle is willing
to discuss the use of trade measures in order to help balance our $500
billion trade deficit? This is delicate territory, reawakening fears of
Smoot-Hawley in the 1930s, but we are in delicate territory regarding
our unemployment rate as well. Warren Buffett in 2003 advocated an idea
he called “Import Credits” which he claimed would increase exports in
the hundreds of billions and jobs in the hundreds of thousands.
Republicans? Democrats? Discussion please.

In the end, I hearken back to revered economist Hyman Minsky – a
modern-day economic godfather who predicted the subprime crisis. “Big
Government,” he wrote, should become the “employer of last resort” in a
crisis, offering a job to anyone who wants one – for health care, street
cleaning, or slum renovation. FDR had a program for it – the CCC,
Civilian Conservation Corps, and Barack Obama can do the same. Economist
David Rosenberg of Gluskin Sheff sums up my feelings rather well. “I’d
have a shovel in the hands of the long-term unemployed from 8am to noon,
and from 1pm to 5pm I’d have them studying algebra, physics, and
geometry.” Deficits are important, but their immediate reduction can
wait for a stronger economy and lower unemployment. Jobs are today’s and
tomorrow’s immediate problem.

Those who advocate that job creation rests on corporate tax
reform (lower taxes) or a return to deregulation of the private economy
always fail to address dominant structural headwinds which cannot be
dismissed: 1) Labor is much more attractively priced over there than
here, and 2) U.S. employment based on asset price appreciation/finance
as opposed to manufacturing can no longer be sustained. The
“golden” days are over, and it’s time our school and jobs “daze” comes
to an end to be replaced by programs that do more than mimic failed
establishment policies favoring Wall as opposed to Main Street.

Comments

[Medea]

Define "liberty," please.

[Central Bankster]

Your second post today, attacking those who attack "communists".  Care to "explain" that?

[Central Bankster]

Medea, the silence is deafening.

[Central Bankster]

Medea, the silence is deafening.

[Medea]

Sorry. I had some work to do. Hence, silence. I do not wish to attack those who attack communists. I do criticize the liberal use of terms such as "communist," "socialist," and yes, even "capitalist," because I find that those who throw around those names often have a very poor understanding of the histories and contextual specificities of each. The labels serve little more than a name calling function. They carry virtually zero information when used in common parlance. And the belief that there is one pure, stable meaning to any of them is ideology at its purest.

[dcb]

awesome

[dick cheneys ghost]

$10 Trillion Dollar Trade Deficit since 1976........

10 pages, but worth the read

http://articles.philly.com/2011-06-19/news/29677025_1_trade-deficit-imports-jobs/4

[Hobbleknee]

Peter Schiff said it first.

[equity_momo]

Ive said it for years - a college education is not only a waste of money , its a waste of time and kills off entrepenuership by funnelling so called "rocket scientists" into dead-end financial jobs.

All college is good for is networking into some slippery asshole's asshole. who you know not what you know.  At least that will change with the economic collapse : over to you engineers and scientists. 

[FunkyOldGeezer]

It is undoubtedly true, BUT undoubtedly 'a little rich' coming from someone who's been lucky enough to be part of the 'golden age' to make his money via the financial arena.

The great question facing the world? How will people earn enough to live on, from doing less hours of work? Rising population together with rising automation/computerisation means far more people chasing far fewer jobs of all types, in the long run, worldwide.

[Thisson]

The answer to your question is that there will be more producers of luxuries: music, art, poetry, spa services, massages, etc.

[Putty]

It would have been nice had someone told me that college was worthless before I spent a total of 9 years getting a B.S. and a Ph.D..  Also, that home ownership was overrated.  Thx Bill.  Laugh away.

[Mike2756]

Re-train for heating and air conditioning! call now!

[equity_momo]

Off the top of my head here are the big lies you're taught as an impressionable early teen :

* Govn are there to improve the living standard of Average Joe

*Aim to own a house and then a second house as an "investment" asap

*debt is good as long as you can service it

*Trickle down effect

*If you dont goto College you are dumb - everyone who wants to be anyone must goto college

*economists are smart

*own stocks for the long haul

*people with a Title or achievement , ie , Noble , Ph.D etc , must be smart

*gold is dead money.

*"experts" know what they are talking about because they're "experts"

*America is a free country

*America defends Liberty around the Globe

*The Constitution matters

*standing for the National Anthem at a Ball game with your cap off means youre a Patriot

theres plenty. we have been brainwashed. baaahhaaaaa.

Its all BS folks and its bad for ya.

[DeltaDawn]

Agree with all except the Constitution. If we had followed it, we would not be in this pickle of a mess!

[equity_momo]

Oh i agree , i should have worded it as "this country still follows the Constitution as its important"  when in reality we dont as the PTB dont think its important.

[Thisson]

The problem is that it is hard enough to find a job (or something productive to do) with a college degree, let alone without one.

[snowball777]

UE for college grads: 4.5%....UE for non-college-grads: 9.5%...and college grads earn on average 250% of what non-grads do.

Maybe you should take some remedial courses, Mr. Gross!

[augie]

http://www.economist.com/blogs/freeexchange/2011/05/education

In case some disagree with what you say.

[snowball777]

I'm not arguing that the cost isn't out of hand, only that it isn't completely without value, if pursued correctly (e.g. not going out of state, or ivy league, or taking 6 years to get a bachelor's).

[Thisson]

Yeah but you are much more likely to get a high paying job out of Dartmouth than Suny Binghamton.

You're much more likely to get a job working at the Federal Reserve with a degree from Princeton than from Hofstra.  Etc etc.

[Harmonious_Diss...]

Yup! For sure, the Federal Reserve is "going places" and we should all aspire to be employed with such a fine institution. Bottom line: FED jobs pay great now, and MBA's make sense, next year: prob. not so much.

[-Michelle-]

How many of those college graduates are working in their degree field?  How many of them are underemployed?  How many of them got hired by McDonalds in April?

[snowball777]

I'll be the first to agree that aggregate income is more important than sheer count of butts in seats, but wouldn't you rather be underemployed than unemployed?

As for how many are working in their field, isn't that advice about choosing a major carefully, not an admonition against college itself?

[Long-John-Silver]

You assume only two classes of working people. The College educated and the typical High School graduate. You have conveniently left out the highest paid workforce consisting of technical trades such as Electricians, Plumbers, HVAC technicians, and all others of like technical expertise. These people are highly paid and in great demand. They can and do make 6 figure incomes working on a cash only basis. Sure, you can find a "legal" contractor  to perform the required work but you are going to be put on a never ending waiting list that forces you to take the alternate "cash only" option. You don't dare complain or report the abuse because that will put you on a black list guaranteeing you never get anything repaired within a reasonable amount of time.

[snowball777]

I know many auto-didactic people in my industry who were writing software before they left high-school and pull down healthy six-figure incomes. They are ~0.001% of the population.

As for tradesmen, I have nothing but respect for people who do something useful for a living, but spend some time talking to my bro-in-law about being a trained plumber who has to work for the Roto-Rooter mafia monopoly sometime if you think that's a path to financial stability.

[mayhem_korner]

Normalcy bias.  That trend is going to erode in time.  Premium is on critical thinkers, which is not necessarily correlated to education level (see, e.g., Rush Limbaugh and Bill Gates). 

Those clinging to their degrees for the nameplate benefits constitute a big part of the sheeple horde that is going to get shellacked in the coming economic collapse.  "But, but, but, I followed all the rules as instructed..."

Disclosure - I hold all the degrees the rest of y'all do, and I've worked with the high-test quants, ivy-leaguers and non-blinking lawyers for 20 years.

[snowball777]

I agree, in principle...in the absence of a rebirth of manufacturing in the US, the service economy can and will be done better, cheaper elsewhere and the only real growth industry left in the US will be healthcare for the elderly, but if you want a job today...

[apberusdisvet]

Screw Gross and his Bigger Government, because that is the real problem.  HS graduates, in this era, should learn a repair trade; forget construction jobs for the most part, except for specialty areas for replacement and repair. 

[snowball777]

You could learn a trade (possibly even repair) while getting a degree too.

[Vagabond]

School used to be a good place to learn a trade as knowledge was concentrated, and a degree was the proof you needed to get a job.  The Internet changed the game, school is no longer necessary to learn most trades... and way too many people have degrees so they don't mean what they used to.  Times they are a changing.

Eventually employers will find a new way to gauge aptitude outside of degrees.  It was simply unnecessary for me to pay $130K for a computer science degree.  I had as much potential out of high school as out of college.  I learned more in 6 months at my first job than I did in 5 years of school.

[Long-John-Silver]

school is no longer necessary to learn most trades

LOL! I can see you hunched over a Lap-Top as your attempting to figure out how to connect  an R-22 tank to the low pressure side of the (HVAC) compressor, which is not labeled and looks exactly like the high pressure side. How about setting up a CNC machine? We won't even talk about programming PLC's or the associated hydraulic or pneumatic system there connected to......

[snowball777]

I did CnC routing of fiberglass panels for aircraft galleys for awhile. I wrote scripts to take plot data from airline companies and generate the input needed for the router to generate a nice spline of the same shape. I kinda miss that stuff now that I work with bits.

[Uncle Remus]

attempting to figure out how to connect  an R-22 tank

or if R-22 is even the correct refrigerant...

[snowball777]

Certainly true in my case, I learned drafting and other marketable skills in high-school shop classes that basically paid for my college education. I worked for a semiconductor company as an intern and had a job waiting when I graduated with my ~20k in Stafford loans already paid in full.

Programmers are tested objectively with specific competency tests now for many of the reasons you state. They are remarkably good at weeding out people who don't really have an aptitude for programming.

[AUD]

interest rates that can go no lower?

Bill Gross is full of shit.

[Long-John-Silver]

Sure! Everyone will love to pay for the honor of buying bonds or a savings account.

[Salah]

Whoa!  an apostate member of the financial elite tells it straight, esp about Wall Street's 'financialization' of the "US Economy" (itself starting to be an oxymoron).

There is a cure for all this: we have to dump that obscure, restrictive, anti-wealth, anti-sovereign Outer Space Treaty of 1967 and get serious about returning to our pioneer roots.  

[FranSix]

Interest rates can go negative.

Secondly, Bill Gross does not know what work is, or why its needed.

[equity_momo]

Real interest rates are and have been negative for some time now. Do you mean headline interest rates? Well i guess so , we can apply a -1% rate to deposit accounts. Didnt the Swedes do that?

Im torn between thinking Bill is a total douche and a much needed financial oligarch traitor. An enemy of my enemy is my friend and all that. The last 6 months he seems to have switched gears although i think thats because he sees the end game and realizes he and his fund are fucked either way , so what the heck , he might aswell tell some home truths and have a tantrum cos it'll make him feel better. All in all , he lives and works in Newport Beach , so total douche guaranteed.

[FranSix]

Negative rates are the legacy of huge money printing.

Bill Gross may be a douche, but he does know what 'is' is.

[TaxSlave]

Ha, so the solution is the CCC etc.

And we should try to run our country like China.

Cripes.

[Silverhog]

I never went to college but three of my siblings graduated from big time ivy league institutions. All three would happily vote for Obama again and think I'm nuts for buying Silver. There is a serious disconnect with reality inherent with their education. Mind numbed robots.  Glad I ducked that bullet.

[LawsofPhysics]

Don't sweat it. As the dollar weakens you can change your silver in to the fiat du jour and buy all their properties.  In a society where you can't trust your family to pay the rent, well then my guess is a can of beans and a shotgun will be your most valuable possessions.

[mayhem_korner]

"big time ivy league institutions"

Hilarious.  I've worked with so many of these bookworms, I stopped counting.  Can write equations with only greek letters, but struggle with basic traffic signs.

[alexwest]

stupid as it gets..

###
Additionally and immediately, however, government must take a leading role in job creation. Conservative or even liberal agendas that cede responsibility for job creation to the private sector over the next few years are simply dazed or perhaps crazed. The private sector is the source of long-term job creation but in the short term, no rational observer can believe that global or even small businesses will invest here when the labor over there is so much cheaper. That is why trillions of dollars of corporate cash rest impotently on balance sheets awaiting global – non-U.S. – investment opportunities. Our labor force is too expensive and poorly educated for today’s marketplace.
###

before trying to find solution to 'jobs problem' we must find reason why jobs are gone..???

JOBS ARE GONE CAUSE OF FREE TRADE W/ LOST COST PRODUCING COUNTRIES..

as long as USA keep on trading w/ China/Vietnam/India/etc alike ,
worker in USA who being paid 20 $ per hour, cant compete w/ worker who makes 10 $ per day..

so solution GET OUT OF WTO/NAFTA/ETC.. and make free trade agreements w/
coutries w/ similar cost of production : Germany/France/Japan/Italy /Canada/etc

rest of coutries, fuck them.. let China trade /w only Vietnam/India/etc

of course there'are some special cases w/ countries that produce mostly commodities (oil / gas/etc) and if there's shortage of that in USA, allow import ,, but only commodities

alx

ps
of course i'm dreaming, so US labor market is fucked forever

[Thisson]

No Alex, "Our labor force is too expensive".  Solve this and we don't need to block free trade.  We just need smaller government, lower taxes, less debt to service, and fewer rentier parasites leaching off of our productive classes. 

[LawsofPhysics]

Sure Bill, let me guess;

Knowledge is Power

Ignorance is Strength

War is Peace

Freedom is slavery

The bottom line is that people should be able to work their way through college or receive technical training without going bankrupt or being in debt at all.  Don't worry, this is changing already.

[Caviar Emptor]

It's impossible to for Dorothy go home to Kansas once she's been to Oz. We're into the second generation of indolence with a sense of entitlement

[Version 7]

Tuition fees. If education does not return a profit, what does?

[bhakta]

Mr. Gross is fully correct. The game is over for the western nations as the Asians have captured the production and the wealth.

[qussl3]

Dont get cocky.

You dont have the firepower to start talking big.

[drchris]

College is worthless for many people.  When I did my undergrad, I was surprised how many people put no effort in at all.  I was always one of the top students.  My main competition was never more than 2-3 other students (sometimes out of classes of 200-300).  I'm not really sure what people expect to get out of college with that effort.  The universities probably should pass as many as they do, but I guess a good chunk of money comes from undergrads.  

[Version 7]

They expect to graduate in Martian Studies (or anything as long it doesn't include numbers) and get a salary from other planet.

[drchris]

Obviously I meant to type "shouldn't pass".  

[augie]

1. Nothing will change until the students organize and change the system.

2. Students will not organize until young people realize they run the consumer machine.

3. Given the current climate, my pension for making outragious claims like i invented the question mark, and my desire to have a third and final point, I'd say civil unrest by october. In October of 2009, unemployment claims peaked, and i'm pretty sure once the 99 weeks of checks stop flowing in to the majority of the 13.9 million unemployed, the comfort level of Americans might dip low enough to warrant some soul searching and questioning "is this really the world i want to live and raise my family in?" Outrageous claim that the American public could think about something other than Mayonnaise, nascar, and primetime television shows.   

[the not so migh...]

I always thought college was for females to learn and master the art of fellatio.   Your actually supposed to learn something meaningful there?

[4shzl]

You're confusing college with high school.

[PeterSchump]

Disparate experts such as GE’s Jeff Immelt, Fareed Zakaria, Jeffrey Sachs and Paul Krugman believe...

I find nothing disparate in the aforementioned "experts". I do find most of what they say disparaging to the well being of most citizens though. They are all invested in continuing the kleptocracy, altough the direct beneficiaries of their "proposals" may differ.

[Nathan Hale]

Hey Bill,

  How many people working at PIMCO don't have a college degree? 

[Doode]

We left the Industrial Age and entered the Information Age decades ago where the ability to retain and process information superseeds previously valued ability to pull the right lever/press a button. The only true solution to the crisis in this global economy is to raise the average IQ of the nation - not education, but the actual IQ. That would require both social engineering policies and ample medication based on the latest and upcoming research by both psychologists and DARPA. Tough but doable - I do not believe there is any other way for the local population to effectively compete against folks who are just as smart/educated but charge 1/10 the wage scattered across the globe.

[radarthreat]

Whoa...that's Dr. Mengele stuff!

[Doode]

No, just a new reality based on modern research - nothing sinister.

[radarthreat]

Whoa...that's Dr. Mengele stuff!

[Widowmaker]

The systematic annihilation of all things non-debt based and productive (including education) is long into its maturity.  

Main street doesn't stand a chance with incorporated Congress sucking fraud-dick while the common young adult is left to rot in the desert of lies with a brain bucket for their own future.

College = education fraud = debt = record bonuses and mission accomplished -- look at the Bush twins, they came out on top of the plunder pile, carefree.  

Richestan is fucking pathetic and boomers above all should be ashamed.  Burn the church of the rich man's lies to ashes along with all those that savagely gained from the patriotic sacrifices of others.

What a fucking joke of jokes Congress is.  The only thing that matters is other people's money.  Education?  Sounds outsourced to India, lets build them a school and send our youth to the desert -- RECORD BONUS!

[duo]

When Reagan took office GM had 300,000+ employees and Citibank had 50K.  Now it's the other way around.  Think about that.

The middle class exists in this country because of two things, tariffs and war.  When the tariffs went away (WTO), the middle class was pushed off a cliff.

[Widowmaker]

It's been one thing only -- gut the United States. 

No one "sees" it coming because it's a collapse within.  It's the collective that absolutely failed, not the individual.  But here even the Supreme Court worships incorporation, where laws don't apply except for the petty.  

Perhaps we need another war on something arbitrary, like a war on obesity.  Lock the fat up in a private gulag for life in the name of a healthier America.  That out to add to police-GDP.   Gutting freedom for a buck ought to be 1-2%.

Mission accomplished, where's my patriotic equity?

[Terminus C]

The solution to the reduced American manufacturing base is simple.  Cut military spending by 2/3 or more.

Capital is protected on foreign soil by a powerful US military, shipping lanes, protected by the navy, governments who might otherwise nationalize foreign productive facilities (farms, factories etc...) think twice.

American labor is only 'expensive' when the cost of protecting foreign capital is externalized to the 'state' (read tax payer).  If the US military budget was cut by 2/3 you'd see a massive flood of capital rushing back home for safety.

[FunkyOldGeezer]

So, let me get this right.

To be a super hero on ZH, all anyone has to do, is talk straight?

Even super hero qualifications have been rather diminished.

[Crab Cake]

This was a good article, with a lot of ideas, and food for thought.

Now throw it in the garbage, and know that you've wasted your time.

There are no solutions under the current paradigm. It is true unadulterated completely corrupt insanity. DC and Wall St don't want solutions, they like the status quo, and they aren't going to change a damned thing. If and when a crisis does come... It's an opportunity for looking magnanimous for politicians and government money for corporations.

Solutions are well and good, but don't look for implementation this side of a revolution.

[gookempucky]

Truly we should ask ourselves...what is the meaning of education...hell the re-training system is just part of the overall financial ponzi and mainly about loans for interest. Un-employed neighbor enrolled in HVAC class and is now on the hook for $40k = nice and has had no job offers. My pre-wrecks at a comm college consisted of listening to some asshat describe his book he wrote in business administration- speech had some knucklhead get an a+ on his final  about gun control from a previous student that was wrote years before (copies for sale flying all over campus) while the so called professor was in awe of the content (maybe they were on the same buttdart team). Funny- in order for me to actually get into my major, automotive tool & die process, I had to pay for shit that didnt matter one eye ohtaa. OH and I almost left out the best part---study hall at the rec room..ya get smart...guess thats why some people I've talked to have said that it is patriotic to pay taxes= really educated.

Nothing butt a joke.

[FunkyOldGeezer]

Surely, in not so many words he's calling for a new 'new deal', isn't he? All those billions would be better spent on something like that, than they currently are. Infrastructure can last a very long time and so can the benefits of it.

[DeltaDawn]

Mr. Gross, since you have much more capital than the federal government, why don't you open up tuition-free skills centers and give startup money to inventors?

[Tinsu]

Bill, you are talking out two sides of one mouth.  How many jobs openings does Pimco have for people without a college degree?  I did a quick scan and it appears that most of your postions require a lot more than a high school diploma.

http://www.pimco.com/EN/careers/pages/undergraduaterecruiting.aspx

 So, college is worthless .... unless you want a job at Pimco. 

[pelican]

Labor gets you noplace.  You could be an attorney, high tech worker, etc.  What does it matter when the banks wind up with everything through creation of bubbles.

I am so tired of all this talk of job creation.  It requires a much bigger vision for the future of the country.

[keating]

Solution - distance ed college degrees performed part time while working. No debt and tuition costs are as low as 20% of residential. The real losers here are residential colleges that cost a fortune and make working very difficult.

[JacksPain]

In this global economy you are better off travelling for four years, taking odd-jobs, meeting locals in various countries and gaining comfort with different cultures than going to college.  OR better yet (if within your means) going to a state school and taking advantage of international exchange programs.

The college math no longer works, there is no longer a "back-ended payout", meaning that the extra income earned over a lifetime by obtaining an undergrad degree does not outweigh the pains of launching a career with $50k+ in loans (and for dr's and lawyers $150K+ in loans, assuming your family is not wealthy).  

[Silver Dreamer]

There seems to be a simple misunderstanding here.  If you are going to college to learn a profession, then you are most likely not wasting your time or money.  If you are going to college for any other reason, you almost certainly are wasting your time and money.  I went to college to get a technical degree in Computer Networking.  It has definitely been a very valuable investment.

What I tell my children still remains true profession wise: Do what 99% of other people either refuse to do or cannot do, and you are almost guaranteed to be financially successful.  The market pays according to your value within it after all.  Although, I'm sure the central planners will hate that concept...

[BlackholeDivestment]

...people are still hell bent on believing and living the lie. The Truth has never ''changed''. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6Qf_oA_sVE&feature=channel_video_title

[rsnoble]

I wouldn't say college is worthless, id say the opportunity for grads is worthless. Obama wants to train 10,000 new engineers a year. For what? So you can sit at home while your half price India counterpart does the job? And what job are we talking about? Speeding up the Mcdonalds hamburger assembly line? Maybe design a fully automated Mcdonalds that has no employees?

I don't have a problem with short-term occupational programs but I would consider a local community college vs. the scam artist private schools that want 25k to learn to cut hair. Around here you can get a 2 year degree for around 5k and a chance at getting a job(for now). Not bad. Or you can opt to call the radio advertisement that plays 10x a day on how you can make 70k in 6 months as a IT Tech and plop and apply for 40 grand in student loans all the while there's IT support groups all over the city with people in them with years of experience on you that can't find a job. Take your pick.

[FunkyOldGeezer]

Here's a thought:

For every single 37 hour a week job, convert it into 2 X 22.5 or 25 hour jobs paying the same money. Everyone has the potential to win.

Potential for far more productivity (proven time and time again that shorter hours are better) and double the number of jobs at a stroke. Those that want to ease off or prefer other pusuits can still live comfortably, those that want to get on in life can work 2 jobs. No-one would need to feel guilty, under-utilised, whatever.

OK, it's a stupid idea, but it's that kind of thinking that may be required.

te he

[Yes_Questions]

"Our labor force is too expensive and poorly educated for today’s marketplace."

This is a talking point.  It suggests, in part that Labor is somehow unwilling to budge on its prices and too dumb to be trusted with the task if the price was right.

Horseshit!  It suggests that there is a vast reservoir full up of entrepreneurial capital just waiting for the right combination of cheap and talented labor to come along and midwife it into the economy.

Lobby for student loan debt forgiveness, Mr. Gross and lets see how quickly Labor goes on sale.  Lobby for significant easing of Bankruptcy laws affecting consumer debt and we'll see how many dollars are freed up for new products.

And please, stop calling Labor skill-sets education.  You don't want an educated workforce.  You want American sweatshops full of wage slaves too docile to reject these supposed "jobs".

[Thisson]

I think the quote about labor being expensive means that our workers need higher salaries because they are paying too many taxes, debt service fees, and are having too many financial parasites skimming off of them.

[radarthreat]

Amen!

[css1971]

Science and engineering is easily outsourced to India, China.  It means that salaries have to compete with the developing economies. Students would have to be insane to take those areas of education.

Fuck the nation. The market has spoken, economists and bankers are far better paid than scientists or engineers, clearly we need more economists, and bankers.

[mattwett12]

Ahh I don't know. I think there is still value in going to school for engineering and the sciences. It may be less costly to send your engineering work to China, but I don't think they will be more efficient at sovling the US's energy and healthcare problems for example. More engineers and more doctors is not really a bad thing.

The problem with College education in the US, sadly to say, is it is not competitive enough. College education expanded too fast for the United States, as manufacturing and other services that create value slowed. Now we see an influx of college grads who can't find anything to do. With the upcoming default of college debt, which will happen, I think we'll see a massive decline in the number of colleges and Universities in the United States, and an increase in trade programs.

[rcmullins]

To use a real-life story.  I was making 50K as a sales rep and decided college would give me an added boost to the real money.  I quit my job with three kids in tow, went to school full-time, graduated just after 9/11 and jobs were scarce for Marketing Statistics specialists.  Went back into school since there were no jobs (peddled my resume of a bachelors with 10+years sales experience at a rate of ten per week for six months).  Got a Master degree in IT, and signed on with the college for 28k per year.  Did that for three years, and moved on to another job for 42k per year.  Did that for four years to my current destination which put me back at 50k where I was before I started school.  So let's do the math.  For seven years I gave up meaningful employment and income to better myself, and it took me another seven years to get back to where I was.  Now I am 80k in school debt and gave up a potential of 500k worth of earnings over a 14-year span of time.  So total lost revenue, would be roughly 580,000 plus interest.  Not a good trade in my book.

Incidentally I had heard that the guvment was going to start cracking down on school loan holders in June.  Sure enough, yesterday I got a call.  Welcome to higher ed folks, which it most certainly is not anymore.  Just an expensive vo-tech.

[Spastica Rex]

Imagine Bill G's vision of higher education comes to pass; namely some significant portion of American students attain math and science degrees -- say 50% (that's ridiculously generous, but just for argument).

So, two questions:

1) What will those math and science majors be doing when they graduate?

2) What will the other 50% be doing?

[Downtoolong]

I sometimes wonder how many Harvard students, if put to the test on graduation day, could fix a leaking toilet. I also wonder how many people who own homes with five or more bathrooms could do it. Maybe that's why they need so many; when one toilt breaks they just start using another.

[Version 7]

++1

[Kreditanstalt]

Nothing new here, just yet more government.

A government infrastructure program?  Isn't this old idea dead in the water?

Later in the piece Gross states "Those who advocate that job creation rests on corporate tax reform (lower taxes) or a return to deregulation of the private economy always fail to address dominant structural headwinds which cannot be dismissed: 1) Labor is much more attractively priced over there than here..."

If the "dominant structural headwinds" are too-high western living standards (and wages of course...), they will fall.

Which is the ONLY long-term workable solution!  Lower Living Standards.  Coming soon - and unavoidably - to a neighbourhood near YOU.

[Thisson]

Our people could maintain the same living standards, at a lower net cost, if tax rates were lowered, debt service costs were lowered, and rents were lowered (lowering taxes --> lowering rents), etc.

[Downtoolong]

I sometimes wonder how many Harvard students, if put to the test on graduation day, could fix a leaking toilet. I also wonder how many people who own homes with five or more bathrooms could do it. Maybe that's why they need so many; when one toilt breaks they just start using another.

[Downtoolong]

I sometimes wonder how many Harvard students, if put to the test on graduation day, could fix a leaking toilet. I also wonder how many people who own homes with five or more bathrooms could do it. Maybe that's why they need so many; when one toilet breaks they just start using another.

[blunderdog]

Enterpreneurial value! 

I'm a highly-edumacated infirmation-techknowledgy expert.

You come fix my toilet and I'll train you how properly to click that "save" button just once.

Win-win, dawg.

[no life]

"Oh, that's defeatist.. fuck it."

[writingsonthewall]

What is rather ironic is that had Bill Gross gone to college then he might understand why all forms of finance are merely 'capital blackmail' and that hisprofits come from some others unfortunate misery.

Most people in finance are not intelligent - they are good with maths, but very bad on more abstract concepts (like Risk for example) - hence their failure to understand why it all goes wrong.

[Brahms Third Racket]

Isn't Bill a little behind the times? Way back in the '80's, when outsourcing of manufacturing was well under way, we were told that we needed to retrain for the technology boom. So we did. Eventually, they started shipping those jobs overseas as well. Career planning today seems to have been reduced to trying to guess what can't or won't be outsourced or insourced and still pays a liveable wage.

[SilverRhino]

Plumbing, HVAC and gunsmithing.  

[Crispy]

Trade school, entrepreneurship  and self reliance are what what my kids are getting pushed into. I told the wifey that the only way I pay for school is if they get a full ride.

[cranky-old-geezer]

The college bubble was caused by corporate America's blind reliance on degrees. 

I remember back in the 70s when one could get a well-paying programming job if they had any kind of college degree not even related to programming, and they were the ones rising up the corporate ladder irrespective of how poor their programming & system design skills were.

I remember geeks with computer science degrees, the "gold standard" in I.T., who knew nothing about business, accounting, & finance, and couldn't design a business system worth a shit ...but they could write a freikin compiler and fuck around with the OS all day long ...and they rose into manager positions.

I finally got away from it by going the contract programming route, then later got out of corporate I.T. completely, starting my own business in another area.  Wish I had done it 20 yrs sooner.

And yes I'd gladly make a living investing vs working if I could.  It's how rich become rich.

[Dr. Gonzo]

This article forgot to calculate the four years lost of wages from working. I'm no genius but I made this decision 20 years ago for these reasons when I went to a 2 year school to get my training. My extra time working and saving and not accumulating debt put me financial leaps and bounds ahead of my friends who went for the more prestigious 4 year. Some did not even stick it out for the degree and came up completely empty handed. One friend did not go to college at all and he is probably the best off as he bartended and saved for his own businesses and now has two. Never was willing to buy into the college myth. Always sceptical and never understood the mechanisms and ponziness of the American system long before zero hedge was created. Now I understand Pozi schemes on a an advanced college level thanks to ZH.

[IQ 101]

So we all become Windmill mechanics?

It is about Manufacturing Bill.

Do the Chinese really need SUV;s and high rises,they got along just fine with rickshaws and bicycles for a long time,

If Asia can not afford Western made products, they dont need them.

why should the West be dragged down by miguided compassion for backwards cultures,

They have other issues to address and should trade amongst themselves until they catch up, 

http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/filthy-india-photos-chinese-netizen-reactions.html

Look at them........Stone age.

[IQ 101]

So we all become Windmill mechanics?

It is about Manufacturing Bill.

Do the Chinese really need SUV;s and high rises,they got along just fine with rickshaws and bicycles for a long time,

If Asia can not afford Western made products, they dont need them.

why should the West be dragged down by miguided compassion for backwards cultures,

They have other issues to address and should trade amongst themselves until they catch up, 

http://www.chinasmack.com/2010/pictures/filthy-india-photos-chinese-netizen-reactions.html

Look at them........Stone age.

[Chuck Walla]

What better way to promote socialism than enslaving the young in debt?  Then, offer them an out if they will only support those politicians who promise to take money from someone else to "help" them pay it off.

A government which robs Peter to pay Paul can always depend on the support of Paul.

- George Bernard Shaw

[bourbondave]

I agreed with everything he said about college being worthless until he got to where he is now the one with the answers on how to spend our money in the best way to bring about prosperity.  The tune never changes, only sometimes the people.  "The others are idiots and can't spend your money for you.  I can though."  Give me a break.

[Raymond Reason]

Then there is the theory that the real life-blood of the golden age was oil.  Now with declining supply, the economy will un-develop, regardless of education or skills. 

[Crispy]

Its just a pullback in the trend of human ingenuity. We will find a way to further ourselves if oil runs dry.

[r101958]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

[no life]

Don't worry, just start a web site or some sort of .com.. the bubble is still alive and well..

[Printfaster]

What goes for a college education today was exceeded in the past by an eighth grade education.

College education has been enshrined into an elitist El Dorado.  Certainly there are schools that promote the student far beyond his abilities such as Harvard, especially its business and law schools.

But mostly college has evovled into a green card entree, and a place to hook up.  What is it, the average college student spends 7% of his time studying, and something like 56% socializing?

Actually, the best function of college is to keep people from stuffing the unemployment roles.  An acquaintance out of unemployment checks and not old enough to retire recently took up college again so that he could get a loan to pay for living expenses and to obtain cheap health insurance.  What a deal.  He will never have to pay it back because he will be dead before the bill is paid.  This was my financial advice to him, and the best advice that I ever gave anyone.

Ha ha.

By the way, the best advice given to me was by my Econ 1 instructor who on the first day said the only thing that we needed to learn was:  " the smartest man is not the one who dies and leaves a million dollars, it is the man who dies and owes a million dollars".  The rest was indeed garbage.  Gawd how I hated Samuelson.

[radarthreat]

So by that logic, the smartest path for the United States is the exact path it's on

[TuesdayBen]

If I had an 18 year old, I'd recommend he blow off college, go teach English in Tokyo 6 months/year, spend the other six months using the earnings to travel the world like Aussies do.  Then, if he wants to return to USA, move to a high-end market like DC, pass simple test to become real estate broker, treat clients in a manner most agents do not - i.e. with integrity - work hard and retire rich.

[Jason_1sandal]

Recently I've gotten to know some undergraduates, and was surprised to learn how the University "distibutes" the funds from their student loans. Apparently after tuition is paid for classes what is left over for discretionary spending such as food and fuel and whatnot is allocated to a "debit" card that can only be used on campus or at retailers who agree to accept the card. All fine and good I suppose except that at the end of the year whatever is left on the card is credited to the university account. I know one young man that had nearly $900 left on his card. He has to pay back a loan that has been partially stolen by the university, and he wasn't the only one. There are at least 1600 students at this particular school.

[I did it by Occident]

Yeah, that seems to be a change from10 years ago when I was in school.  they would just give me a check each semester from the student loans, it was up to me how to spend it.  That seems to be against something, maybe racketeering/anti-trust.  Basically it would be the "company store" which could charge anything they want, since the students wouldn't be able to spend the money elsewhere.  No wonder cost is spiraling. 

[Vendetta]

Zakaria, a globalist shill.  Artfully dodges trade policy 'as usual' but writes some things that are true so people can't see what he really is.

What globalism has done is mask the effects of inflation by exploiting foreign labor while crushing workers in the US ... which is the plan apparently.  Nothing is needed from China except fireworks and magnets yet so much comes from there ... all exploitation for financial gain for the few.

[gwar5]

Those trying to destroy America are winning.

America has the greatest abundance of natural resources on the planet and many, many other advantages but can't use any of them because of the Jackboots have been methodically stomping on all of them. 

[stoverny]

I don't think college is worthless, however the cost-benefit ratio is completely out of whack.  Back in the 1980s you could easily work your way through college at a state ir city school with no loans at all.  Now even state schools are astronomically expensive, and private schools are just ludicrous.  We are graduating a nation of serfs to the big banks.

The other silly thing is the attempt to make certain trades (nursing, business) into academic disciplines when they are not.  Does a person need 4 years at $30K per studying the "theory of nursing", in order to be a nurse?  Same goes for "management" - most of the business professors I've come across are your typical ex-Wall St. meathead types who coach little league and have no place in academia.  Let the kids have an internship and learn how business works - the idea of an MBA in management is a joke IMO.

[GoinFawr]

Some post secondary fields of study are more worthless than others

[rcmullins]

To use a real-life story.  I was making 50K as a sales rep and decided college would give me an added boost to the real money.  I quit my job with three kids in tow, went to school full-time, graduated just after 9/11 and jobs were scarce for Marketing Statistics specialists.  Went back into school since there were no jobs (peddled my resume of a bachelors with 10+years sales experience at a rate of ten per week for six months).  Got a Master degree in IT, and signed on with the college for 28k per year.  Did that for three years, and moved on to another job for 42k per year.  Did that for four years to my current destination which put me back at 50k where I was before I started school.  So let's do the math.  For seven years I gave up meaningful employment and income to better myself, and it took me another seven years to get back to where I was.  Now I am 80k in school debt and gave up a potential of 500k worth of earnings over a 14-year span of time.  So total lost revenue, would be roughly 580,000 plus interest.  Not a good trade in my book.

Incidentally I had heard that the guvment was going to start cracking down on school loan holders in June.  Sure enough, yesterday I got a call.  Welcome to higher ed folks, which it most certainly is not anymore.  Just an expensive vo-tech.

[American Sucker]

Gross is right about college being a racket.  However, his ideas to improve college are terrible.  None of them address the fact that:

1. There are few jobs.

2. College is obscenely expensive.

3. Corps require unnecessary degrees.

What's the use of having more unemployed debt slaves who've mastered the protractor?

[Double down]

Agree or disagree the guy, at least to me he appears to honestly work the problem and his analysis feels right because it makes me....uncomfortable.  

[proLiberty]

For all his wealth and Wisdom, Bill Gross is so conflicted by fiat money that he cannot bring himself to understand the full error of Keynesian economics: that wealth is private property and it is morally wrong for government to presume the power to manipulate the value of wealth that users of its currency have stored in it.  Yet that is the basis of Keynesian Economics.

To claim "additionally and immediately, however, government must take a leading role in job creation", is to claim that political calculation trumps economic calculation in an act that is fundamentally solely in the realm of economics: the creation of a job.

When government sets about to create a job, it takes wealth from an economy composed of median families that each had an annual income in 2010 of $52,026 and spends it to fund a federal job that in 2010 cost a total of $123,049 [1].  That is an efficiency ratio of 52/123 = 42%.  Surely the Bond King can understand an underwater business model when he sees one.  In any other context, he would walk out of the presentation at that point.  I would ask what calculation and rationalization is going on when that is the net effect of his recommendation? 

Government cannot create anything save it extract the money it spends from someone. The instant it spends $1 on anything that yields a total economic return of less than $1 is the instant that spending degrades and reduces the common prosperity. Any bureaucrat staffing beyond the minimum necessary to allow the economy to function destroys value. We lament the loss of manufacturing jobs, yet are not worried about job growth in government.

Trying to create jobs via government is the road to debt-serfdom, not the road to prosperity.

[1] Federal workers earning double their private counterparts, USA Today , 8/31/2010.  Link: http://www.usatoday.com/money/economy/income/2010-08-10-1Afedpay10_ST_N....

[3ringmike]

Sounds good! As an unemployeed carpenter i can see why we need more carpenters. We're fucked. I'm going surfing. While i still can.

[HungrySeagull]

Just get some sun and rest until the next town gets wiped out by a disaster, then there will be work plenty for all who can travel.

I'll fetch the jeep. How many cases of beer and food do you want?

[dxj]

Gross holding up FDR as an example ... god forbid. Time to short Gross.

[jmc8888]

Yeah FDR got us out of the depression, won wwII with his policies, umm shoved it to the banksters, and created from which everyone has been tearing down for the last 60+ years. 

Time to short those that clearly mis-remember the past with revisionist thinking. 

FDR was one of our greatest presidents, unless you're neck deep in propaganda.

He actually got people back to work, and didn't rely on tax cut bullshit, or keynesian bullshit.

Nope, FDR WAS NOT A KEYNESIAN.  Keynes try to glom on and fit INTO HIS ivory tower land what FDR DID. 

Quit believing bullshit

Glass-Steagall (oh yeah, fdr)

[Critical Path]

College is worthless

Wrong!

The Value is horrible.  That is, what you get opposed to WHAT YOU PAY is rediculous.  Having said that, the FAZ equivalent of the US University/higher education system would be nice right about now.

[I did it by Occident]

Reminds me of the "blind men and the elephant" story from India.  Each person perceives reality subjectively and thus the many economic philosophers seem to come up with myriad and differing models of economic reality. 

[Stormtower]

The part about college is accurate..........the rest is just more central planning, keynesian, marxist, globalist, establishment bullshit!!!!

[Ghordius]

Growth stocks = fast market = careless investors = CEO bonuses inflated = less incentive to start your own = less entrepreneurs = less small & medium sized companies = less hiring = less demand
What I mean is: how much fun is nowadays to own a small company (which grows) compared with a high level job in a leviathan?
Only a thought...

[Bob]

= elimination of the favored tax status of capital gains.  It's a fundamental question and that is my only thought on it.  It speaks for itself, I think. 

[jmc8888]

I guess bill gross hasn't figured out that both parties (and most people) use sophistry in place of facts.   Everyone blindly believes bullshit.  So magically these jobs will be created? Only if you re-rig the BLS statistics a bit more so we can lie to each other on a scale an order of magnitude greater.  But somehow I don't think we would take that.

Fusion, mag-lev, machine tools, NAWAPA, desalinization, Hill-Burton, NASA-Space, science..including electromagnetism....sun..space..earthquakes, fusion arc, medical research (not 99 percent symptom reducing [but not curing] pill research)...and the list goes on and on.

What do we have to do? TONS.  Where are the jobs? There.  They don't exist yet, but the need is there, and it IS urgent.  How do to it is EASY. But you have to have gov't get this shit going, and then private sector can support it, and build off it.  Meanwhile we all benefit.

Or we can continue living in Ivory tower land, with colleges that teach Queen Bullshit (i.e. the world accoriding to imperial monetarism), with sophistry statistics, bullshit psuedo science, propaganda business, quack head games, green fascism, and many other interesting but overall useless fields of study.  Some get a good education, but oh are they in the minority.  There are aspects that are good within the bad.  Some teachers teach things in a way that shows the foolish nature of it all, which helps, but still unoptimal from doing it right and teaching kids something useful.

A trillion dollars of debt for a hundred million or so educations that are mostly worthless. 

Remember the debt boogeyman is only in our heads.  We decide to let it crush us or not.  It can be wiped away very easily.  Only ignorant people are afraid of our current FRAUDULENT debt.  My only concern about it is that ignorants believe we need to pay off the fraud, thus we do, at the expense of, well everything else. 

Glass-Steagall

[Bob]

Agreed, it all comes back to the debt chains that bind us.  As oblivious as cows. 

[HungrySeagull]

No not oblivious.

I have stood on the fence that contains the cattle who are being held for thier turn up the ramp to the kill floor at the meat plant.

That cattle is upset and agitated because they know somehow that ramp cannot be a good thing and they smell death for the first time; not knowing it's for them next.

And me the driver they are looking at is the one to haul them in about 550 90 pound cases more or less after processing to the eastern cities within a few days.

You don't get attached to them. Big brown eyes and all.

[blunderdog]

In a capitalist system, long-term infrastructure investment is very difficult to finance, so it tends not to happen. 

Most capitalists (meaning the folks controlling the surplus capital seeking investment opportunities) don't want to wait 20 years before they start seeing the returns, but that's the realistic time-frame for big industrial development.

Oh, well.  Better to find a quick way to make a few bucks over the next few years from pothole damage or something.

[Miles Kendig]

Hey Bill !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What % of PIMCO full time employees are non-grads?

I'm sure the answer will reveal more about your true beliefs than this waste of O2 from you. 

A small bit of news to you Bill.  REAL TRADERS put their money where their mouth is, and not just other peoples money.

http://www.financialpost.com/over+Bill+Gross+says+Ponzi+scheme+will+fini...

[malek]

Oh, and hey Bill !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What % of rejected PIMCO full time employment applications are grads?

[Miles Kendig]

According to Bill most get weeded out during the 90 second cocktail conversation... 

http://www.investmentnews.com/article/20100301/FREE/100309994

The bottom line is that PIMCO is ACTIVELY seeking qualified sub-contract firms that meet the conditions of primary disabled veteran owned enterprise to comply with certain, stupid, federally enacted jobs programs while he doesn't want to bother to bring these same thinkers/doers/entrepreneurs on board.  Those slots are reserved for those who performed well in a regulatory or policy making position earlier and now get their bonus check.

And yes, I am a 100% disabled war veteran who looks at drivel like this article and his firms hiring practices and says no wonder my community is telling Bill and folks like him to fuck off.

[Born Right the ...]

 Long time lurking here,love ZeroHedge.Got here as a silverbug,tip from another silverbug.Have finally decided to add my two cents worth to the discussion.Please read befor junking.

 Evertime that I see a suit that got into Ivy League as a legacy,knowing that there own sorry offspring will get same treatment,say that the value of a college degree is over rated,I always want to ask the same question of  the BASTARD:  What trade school will your daughter be attending next year?  I understand that there is a real   need for nurse's aides in every old folks home!

   JUNK AWAY,I Hope it makes your day easier for you,TROLLS

[malek]

Thank you for exercising it here, how people fall into the most common thinking trap about college education.

[European American]

I can remember going to college to stay out of the draft. Wasn't too worthless back then. Then of course the lottery came into play. My number was 167. They went up to 166 that year.

[jstar]

College teaches students how to think critically and if anything, it shows that the student can "stick it out", it shows perseverance. It's true that the economy is tough right now and jobs are hard to find and as a result many students are obtaining Masters and PhD degrees. Eventually the recession will wane and the jobs will come back and when that happens, folks with a degree will still have a upper had over those who don't.

http://www.trident.edu/

[Dr. Goose]

Said a critic of higher education:
"It's (for many) a four-year vacation,
Which begets student debt
With no useful skill set,
As they'd have if they'd learned a vocation."

http://www.limericksecon.com