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Along that line of thought, I would improve on Gross's choice of words by replacing "head in the sand" with "head up the a--".
I think it is more accurate.
Will someone please stuff a sock in this guy's mouth? Or whatever else you might have available on short notice.
What? Do you argue that the United States has become non competitive at home? Do you argue that the American corporate response to staying competitive is too move their operations offshore rather than investing in their operations in the US? Do you argue the point that a huge percentage of our citizenry would rather get (and ask for) a free hand out from our government versus getting off their asses and working? Do you argue that the current regimes health care bill is nothing short of another socialist scam? Do you argue the fact that our society has decided to produce wall street MBA versus an entrepreneur who could build a factory to produce goods that can be consumed right here in America and abroad? Do you argue the fact that America has developed into a Nation that preferrs to create barriers that restrict business growth versus tearing down barriers and allowing business to flourish? I really think that you have had a sock pulled over your head for the last 20 years.
I think CD "argues" that Bill's words, no matter how nicely put, are usually only self-serving.
gross seems to be one of those guys that when he speaks the truth about something you either have to watch what his left hand is doing or assume he's being nudged away from the teat and having a hissy fit.
cd: sorry but that "short" part precludes me from any mouth stuffing i'm afraid.
Every persons words (if ever put into action) benefit somebody. Do you or Cog. speak words that will not benefit you? The only people that ever get in the way of any of our success is ourselves. Period. You can choose to be a part of the problem or a part of the solution. It appears to me that Mr. Gross has made a decision to be a part of the solution. Good for him.
That's one hell of a large button I seem to have pushed on your forehead. Or is that just a zit?
No, I do not argue with people who have no interest in exchanging information, but rather in pushing their own message and point of view.
My argument is with Bill Gross speaking for his own self interest and benefit, but spinning it as if it's solely for "the people" that he humbly slaves away on his hamster wheel every day. Poor Bill, doing God's work without the recognition he deserves.
I don't see Gross pulling a Blankenfein anywhere, whining about how he has it bad or how he's doing good for the masses, or "God's work." He is in fact merely stating what is wrong with the system while trying to profit from it. What would you prefer he do? Turn into a Fed loving blowhard? Stop speaking the truth? Speak the truth but start intentionally losing money for his investors instead of front running based on his knowledge?
I personally have no problem with someone stating 1) the system is broken, here is why and then 2) investing rationally based upon that knowledge. I couldn't disagree with you more, CD. We need more investors of his gravitas to publicly whip the shit out of the policy makers to try to get some impetus for change. You or I, CD, are certainly not going to bring it about...
In fact, I'd go so far as to say your personal dislike for the man, likely driven by past documented instances of him unfailingly talking his book, has projected some sort of motivation onto him now, whereby you believe he is "slaving away for the people" or "trying to paint himself as a martyr" or "trying to drum up support for himself as a champion of the people."
I'd argue that is a factor of your beliefs, but not supported by his comments. He is now simply elucidating many, many otherwise ignorant people about what is wrong with the system, and IMHO, he's fairly accurate in his description of the process.
Thank you for putting in quotation marks something I did not say nor could you possibly know that I do or do not believe. Also thank you for assuming that I can't think rationally and must simply be reacting to my narrow minded bias. You don't know me nor have you read my articles about bias, denial and cognitive dissonance.
I take Bill Gross at his word. And he speaks out of both sides of his mouth. Currently he is sensing deep seated anger growing in the masses and he's trying to get on the less dangerous side of that anger while continuing to do what he wants to do, which is profit off the masses. I'm tired of hearing people tell me that participating in the rape of the masses is "rational" behaviour. If that is the case, sociopathic behaviour should also be considered rational.
I'm tired of hearing people tell me that participating in the rape of the masses is "rational" behaviour.
Hoe exactly is Bill Gross raping the masses? Please expound on this statement. Bill did not originate one single mortgage that I know of, or make any loans did he?
He and the hundreds of billions (over a trillion if I understand correctly) under his control enables the rape. He's a (major) part of the problem. He's willing to talk about the problem, but he's not willing to stop being part of the problem. Of course, to just walk away and say he won't participate any more isn't very "rational" is it?
Explain what you mean by rape.
Is that an order or a request?
You've been on ZH for a year. If you don't comprehend what "rape of the masses" means at this point, I'm just wasting my time explaining it to you. Examples are posted several times a day by Tyler and various other contributors.
I actually expected that answer. Let me ask you another question; In your opinion, what does Bill Gross need to stop doing, so the rapes will stop?
I never said that Bill Gross could stop the rapes by doing anything or by stopping what he's doing. I said he was enabling it just as are many others.
Bill Gross is part of the problem. Period. He's conducting a public relations campaign to try to convince people that he's a reluctant warrior and would stop in a New York minute if only the others would stop as well. CYA.
but if he quit pimco noone would listen to him thou and all his power would be gone.
him speaking up in such a frank fashion is a good thing. powerful people listen to him. those people do not read or care about your anonymous posts here on zerohedge.
sure he is part of the game but so am i.
i have done nothing but frontrun the FED buying goldminers hand over fist profiteering like a motherfucker for the past year. and i think you have been too.
so stop it with the holier than thou bullshit. neither gross nor you or i have a responsibility to save the world.
gross is biting the hand that feeds him speaking inconvenient truths and i think your malice should be directed elsewhere.
so stop it with the holier than thou bullshit. neither gross nor you or i have a responsibility to save the world.
This is where you and I differ by several degrees of magnitude. I can't "save the world" nor am I trying. But with no one being responsible for anything other than themselves, we now are where that thought process is playing out to it's end game.
What are Bill Gross's responsibilities as CIO of PIMCO? To make money for his investors. He is doing that. The cognitive dissonance comes in when he knows that this is enabling a system that dooms the country in the long run, so he speaks out against it. In fact, this is really the first time he's NOT talking his book.
Again, quit speaking in fucking platitudes and say what you think Gross should do. Quit PIMCO? Lose money on purpose? Stop speaking out about the ills of the system?
Easy to cast stones. Offer solutions. Douche-bag-ness aside (mustache removal notwithstanding), Gross is doing the right thing by speaking the truth. He can't fight the fed and intentionally lose money for his investors - thousands upon thousands of whom are small, retail guys. In fact, trying to bolster the retirement assets of these individuals is a GOOD thing for the financial future of our country.
I can honestly say I am completely disappointed by the intellectual dishonesty of your reply. I expect much, much more from you.
Sorry I paraphrased your exact words of "spinning it as if it's solely for "the people" that he humbly slaves away on his hamster wheel every day" into several similar phrases or concepts. I thought you were capable of understanding the similarity. The quotes were not referencing your exact words, merely lumping together several oft-bandied about phrases and concepts related to your inferences. If I used quotation marks thusly in a confusing fashion, I do apologize. It was not to insert actual words into your mouth, and I won’t quote things in a response that are not direct quotations going forward. Further, if I interpreted your exact words incorrectly vis-à-vis those quoted phrases, please offer a more clear interpretation for me.
However, you go on to state "Currently he is sensing deep seated anger growing in the masses and he's trying to get on the less dangerous side of that anger". Really, you "take him at his word" and yet, you are capable of getting inside his head and telling me what he is sensing? I didn't realize you were a psychic, or a hypocrite, or both.
Further, for someone who calls himself Cognitive Dissonance, I would have thought you were familiar with the fundamental attribution bias. (He does bad things because he’s bad, not because of the situation). Projecting an ad hominem argument that his comments are driven by “trying to get on the less dangerous side of that anger" just that – purely ad hominem. Sorry, I need evidence that supports this because otherwise it is simply your belief – your bias. An equally plausible situation is that Gross is in fact experiencing cognitive dissonance, and cannot sit idly by profiting from a system he knows is dooming the country. In fact, it is much more likely a classic case of cognitive dissonance than anything else. I pose the question to you: if you were in his shoes, what would you do? Quit? How could that make things better? Stop speaking the truth? Intentionally invest in such a way as to buck the system and likely lose money in the short run as a result?
It always amazes me how some people who appear to have justified in their own minds that doing nothing is the correct course of action are often (not always) very opposed to those who say we are all responsible for doing something to chnage the process. So I suggest you might be the pot calling the kettle black when you call me intellectually dishonest.
And while I was never in his shoes scale wise, I was "in his shoes" at one point and I withdrew pretty early in my carrer to a very small practice where I'm able to practice what I preach to the extent the system allows me to. As best I can considering I don't make the rules nor do I have the financial clout to make any difference, I do not surrender to the financial system that encourages the eating of the weakest. There are simply many things I refuse to do that others in my field have no problem doing in the interest of self interest disguised as the client's best interest.
That is certainly admirable. I'm not disagreeing with the concept of personal accountability. My god, I have never met in my entire life a bigger proponent of that concept than me, yourself included, friend. You also do not know the positions/firms I have left as a result of my cognitive dissonance. All of my clients are wealthier than I am, and not because they are HNW. Not one has ever lost a dime net/net investing with me - including clients that liquidated before I recovered the 2008 losses. I literally made them whole out of my own pocket. (Thankfully, only one client left before recovering their HWM, or I would not have been able to subsidize it.)
But as you yourself note, we are constrained by the confines of the system. And we have responsibilities to fulfill (to my children, for example) that sometimes require comprises. There is no way around this. Is it "better" to knowingly accept a weaker financial position for my children's future so that I can feel good about my ethos?
So again, you can't qualify it "scale wise". Bill Gross can only do what he can do NOW, not in some hypothetical situation. He has been a part of the problem for a long time. What difference does that make now? That is a sunk cost - you don't hold a position because of what you paid for it, only what it is worth right now. What other course of action by Gross would do a better overall social good and meet his multiple responsibilities across constituencies?
CD and everyone,
I smell a rat in here. seems like the bankstas et al have infiltrated ZH to dis-credit some of our more active speakers of truth, now that ZH has gained more popularity
The story of certain govt agency posting on wikipedia came to my mind..
don't let them win CD..hope TD is taking notice
In a month or so, I'm planing on posting a chapter of my still unfinished novel describing (using fiction of course so everyone can maintain plausible deniability) how private, corporate and state interests are pushed and protected on blogs such as ZH.
The one mistake most average Joe's make when writing comments on any blog is assuming that everyone on the blog is just like them. There are many actors on these blogs with ulterior motives. Of course, they will vehemently deny this. One of the keys to smoking them out is the constant hammering away with no self doubt at all.
Only the hopelessly indoctrinated as well as the well trained psyops agents can do this all the time. The hopelessly indoctrinated don't waste their time on these blogs. They're out there making hay while the Fed sun still shines.
You have pushed a button Cog. Finally, someone has began to address the real root cause (at least a large portion) of why America and most other developed Nations are where we are today. We have become a Nation of financial charlatans and crooked politicians because we have more or less lost our desire to work hard as a Nation. Not every person, but more than the majority. It's far easier to figure out how to con someone out a few million or promise someone something of value for nothing than it is to design, build and manufacture something.
Guess in your movie, there's no such thing as a multi-millionaire patriot -- sounds like YOU need to stretch your imagination a bit.
The problem is not a lack of 'aggregate demand'. The problem is excess capacity fueled by a decade of ridiculously low interest rates in combination with unsustainable borrowing by individuals and corporations.
The truth hurst doesn't it?
Don't worry it won't stop your bull rally.
after 30 years + of frontrunning US tax payers via the US bond market, and becoming a billionaire in the process, Bill Gross now wishes to become 'a man of the people'.
...i don't think so, asshole.
Newport Mothership compound is not easy to penetrate!!!
Got " X " ?
This Bill is Gross. He speaks with a forked tongue.
As he keeps his mouth fastened to the insider teat, releases it long enough to give his name to an anti-establishment article, adds to the noise and confusion and goes right back on sucking.
What a bunch of clay-footed losers all of the geniuses of the American Financial landscape are proving to be. They were all insiders. All. Each and every one of them.
Till today, Milken is on teat and on message.
haha nice analogy.
He isn't sucking at the teat of anybody. The man is a genius. Admitting to profiting off of Washington's dumb policies is not a crime. This is America. Get over yourself. The country is full of lazy, pot-smoking alcoholics who all want a shiny new home and a big, fat Cadillac Escalade. That is why this country is f$%#ed.
In the words of the great Mr. Lebowski, "My advice is to do what your parents did; get a job, sir."
Your tone precludes a serious response.
Your post implies nary a shred of real-world knowledge.
Probably a shill. Only a shill would say something as meaningless as This is America.
Go shop, twerp. Your country needs you.
I think what he said is true..but yes he is an insider speaking out of both sides of his mouth..CYB..cover your bonds.......but that is exactly why I moved to Colombia...
Just got a quick chance to check in - wow! Great data from US, UK, China - everything's on fire and the market is loving it! Check back later. Great day for markets and our company in a landmark day!
the house is on fire and you're sittng down to dinner
flee! flee, I say!
Meet your new boss, Harry. Same as your old boss.
Explain HSKAX, BDI, Euro growth rate, interest rate required to sell Portuguese bonds, etc.
Just anti-pitchfork rhetoric from Gross.
When the SHTF he can say he told us so.
If you read the article before posting you might seem less incoherent. But not much.
Bill Gross: yawn...*flush*
double - delete
ISM meets expectations but internals are surprising. The private inventory rebuilding is over. Watch for next month's release to demonstrably deteriorate due to the USD strength from Sept/Oct.
The market was poised for a major breakthrough and ISM really let it down.
The pressure is now firmly on Trichet tomorrow to do something.
ADP's stock price is up. Seems they are being rewarded.
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