Bill Gross: More QE Will Lead To A "Declining Dollar And A Lower Standard Of Living; Druckenmiller Departure Is End Of Old Normal"

Tyler Durden's picture

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plocequ1's picture

Like the Fed gives a fuck about the economy. Its all about the stock market and the Banksters bonuses. Economy? We dont need no stinking economy. There is no economy. There is only GE, AT&T, Exxon, Etc.. Fuck it

snowball777's picture

"If the private sector – through undue caution and braking demographic influences..."

Undue my ass.

PhotonJohn's picture

Undue, bitchez.

Sorry it had to be said. One point that I think most people miss about Japan is that their aging peak started around the time the entered their lost decade. We are now starting to enter that aging peak where they will start retiring. Here's a thought, maybe the average citizen sees what is about to happen with respect to investing and spending with relation to this changing dynamic and will make the changes accordingly. Being a Gen Xer myself, I know I will never see the same returns and growth for this very simple fact. Anything else would be artificial. All I can do is pay down all debts and save like crazy because they may be no pension or social security when my times come to retire. I may only have the money I saved plus a little interest I have struggled to find in the next 25 years.

frosty zoom's picture

Undue my ass

uh, larry, ben and timmy already took care of that one.

ExploitTheMarket's picture

FU Bill Gross...two years ago this clown was begging for the policies that led us to this point, now he is saying oh well yeah this is what happens...but thats ok, right Bill, the kleptocrats like you are doing ok while the other 99.9% of the population gets stuck with a lower standard of living...but you were saved and that is what matters. You would not last five minutes in a truly free market Bill, enjoy your priviliged position you fckuing hypocrite.

frosty zoom's picture

in a truly free market, the rivers would be orange, the sky opaque, and 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999% of the population would be starving.


perhaps the term "exploit the market" gives us some insight into how people would behave in a "truly free market".


freedom means nothing if it's full of dumb.

frosty zoom's picture

to clarify:


the above statement does not justify any position taken by mr. oblahma et al..  the point i'm trying to make is ¿would you like to have "truly free" roads and highways?  ¿"truly free" food production?...

virgilcaine's picture

 Mr. Gross is a true sociopath.

The main characteristic of a sociopath is a disregard for the rights of others. Sociopaths are also unable to conform to what society defines as a normal personality. Antisocial tendencies are a big part of the sociopath’s personality. This pattern usually comes into evidence around the age of 15. If it is not treated, it can develop into adulthood.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Ummmmm....I agree Gross is a sociopath. And you put forth a good description of one.

However, a true sociopath can't be treated. Some believe they can because the sociopath, when confronted with the fact that s/he is cornered and must change paths if s/he wishes to remain acceptable to society, will appear to "get better".

Not a chance. This stance, taken by the sociopath as a "life" saving measure, can truly be described as a wolf in sheep's clothing. When, not if, the winds change, the wolf will be out hunting again. And this time her/his social camouflage will be well developed.

StychoKiller's picture

Really makes ya wish we had "Personality Wipe" Technology, as seen on "Babylon 5."

Hephasteus's picture

That's why they continually say they are immortal or unchangeable and keep trying to build ever lasting kingdoms.

Herd Sociopath - I don't like following the law.

Individuated Sociopath- I'm above the law.

Spiritual developed Sociopath- I am the law.

Translational Lift's picture

Investors will likely not know whether the mouse has grabbed for the cheese for several years forward...

The mouse already got the cheese....and is continuing to raid the wrest of the pantry.....


Silverhog's picture

Besides Gold & Silver, Flight to Quality continues. Last week, American Impressionist art work continues its climb. Willard Leroy Metcalf (American, 1858-1925) A Vermont Landscape of 1922 garnered strong bidding interest, surpassing its pre-auction estimate of $100,000-150,000 to auction for $281,000. Skinners Auction

unum mountaineer's picture

today she takes a beating with an ugly stick. guess that just means more take out when the price is right. timing is always a bitch though.

Big Corked Boots's picture

As a long term investment, who will be around to buy that American art? Generation X, who is saving like mad (noted above)? The Chinese will be interested in American art?

NOTW777's picture

what a joker. he votes for and promotes obama and the current reckless fed policies and then scolds and advises against them.

Ropingdown's picture

Agree with the perspective in frosty zoom's last three comments.  We don't have to wonder what life's realities are.  We have more than just Japan to compare.  We are the political animal, as Ari said.  Think about this: Being 'a trader of securities' is not an altruistic endeavor... but 'trader is us.'  And we get sanctimonious?  Call people sociopaths?  What is this, an NEA website?  No.

sumo's picture

let me be the first to acknowledge that the best route to prosperity is the good old-fashioned route ... good old-fashioned investment in production

Well, that's great. Rising employment in low-cost countries, like China, Mexico, Vietnam, India etc where the increased production takes place. Rising demand there too, an expanding middle class. More transfer of industrial know-how to those centers of production. More competition from local start-ups, which leads to even more employment there.

But what happens here? What's going to increase jobs and consumer demand here?

NOTW777's picture

exactly - the good old fashioned route is taking place overseas, not in the US.  our gov't and polices have killed demand for production and business in general so why invest in "production?"

sumo's picture

It's foreign production and foreign employment that will increase. Why invest here?

Look at the technical jobs on odesk ( Look at the contractors bidding for highly skilled work at $10/hr or less: from Egpyt, Armenia, Ukraine, Pakistan, you name it.

Welcome to the global marketplace for low-cost skilled labor. Kiss your standard of living goodbye.


DonnieD's picture

I think he's saying that for long term prosperity to return we must reverse the effects of globalization and bring jobs back to the United States, i.e. the political will to tell the multi-nationals to stick it and start protecting the American worker.


john_connor's picture

The most likely consequence of stimulative government policies that strain to get us there will be a declining dollar and a lower standard of living.  AND unconstrained FED QE (my comment)

EVERYONE needs to call their congressman and/or senators and repeat what Bill Gross is saying.  Let's see the heat get turned up on ole Ben.  People need to link the Fed with government spending, and you will see the bought off politicians squirm.  So here is the choice, mr/mrs politician, if you support further fiscal (O handouts) and monetary (Zimbabwe Ben) stimulus, you are out.  If you wake the phuck up and do not support this, we might vote for you.

Emails, phone calls, whatever.  Get 'er done.

taraxias's picture

It won't matter john, you've been there, done that. Remember opposition to TARP, it still passed. Remember opposition to Obama's healthcare abomination, it still passed.

And besides, what, vote them off and vote in the next group of paid off puppets? Didn't our last election teach us anything?

Nothing but civil disobedience will end this charade and give us a fresh start. The violent type.

john_connor's picture

I more or less agree; however we should still turn the heat up since it is election season.

Charley's picture

"the most likely consequence of stimulative government policies that strain to get us there will be a declining dollar and a lower standard of living."

Isn't this the point of the exercise? Bill Gross is the little kid who is silly enough to blurt out what everyone else already knows. A frigging fount of wisdom...

Anarchist's picture

The lower standard of living is for the bottom 95%. The top 1% will see their standard of living scream upward.

Anarchist's picture

As usual you guys have no clue. Have you all been deaf, dumb and blind for the last 20 years? The planned destruction of the middle class has been in the works for a very long time. It has become the official policy. Google "starve the beast". All you lovers of all that is Ronald Regan have his administration to thank for pulling the trigger to implement this policy. Bush told Wall Street that the #1 goal of his administrtuion was to defund the US government. For the slow witted among you that means bankrupt the government. The elite have positioned themselves to not only survive the US defaulting on it's debt, they are going to come out owning everything for pennies on the dollar.  

Shameful's picture

20 years?  Wind the clock back further, a lot further.  Your right these people can and do plan in the decades but this didn't start in the 80s or 90s.  We are living through an unfolding agenda that has been around a long time.  The front men distract us and the things they do many take for foolishness or idiocy when they fit into the long term goal.  Feudalism is coming back.

DonnieD's picture

I do not believe the collective intelligence of government over the past 50 years could plan and execute what is happening to our economy. It is simply an enless parade of corrupt officials to DC looking out for themselves and their special interests that got us to where we are. For every Ron Paul there are 200 corrupt congressmen. It's really as simple as that.

B9K9's picture

Sigh. Usury as a political & economic weapon has been described in the Bible for over 2,500 years.

Production can never keep pace with the exponential reality of compounding principle+interest - never. Sure, there may be short terms bursts of productivity where the rule is temporarily suspended (thus blinding people to reality).

However, over a period (even as short as 10 years), all it takes is just one small hiccup from which debtors can never make up lost ground. Think Terminator - the math just keeps on keeping on, unrelenting, unthinking, all the while balances mount ever larger.

When the hosts can no longer pay, the underlying real productive assets which were originally pledged as collateral to secure the loans are seized in repossession. Again, think Merchant of Venice, pound of flesh, yadda, yadda.

(Just as an aside, it is amazing how we so readily dismiss lessons learned by previous generations. Ex: suspending Glass-Steagall. Hence, one of my favorite maxims "It is the conceit of every generation to believe their experiences are unique".)

This shit is as old as the hills. You're right in that it didn't take an organized conspiracy to pull off the collapse. That's because it's so fucking obvious to the few troglodytic gnomes (I mean, take a look @ Blankfein for doG's sake!) who weren't mesmerized by pussy, football & beer (ie most "normal" guys), that they were probably giggling with delight as the lumpen lumbered into the trap completely & utterly unaware of their pending doom.

wiskeyrunner's picture

How about them magic futures, they always rise overnight. Another gap open in SPY and the usual 4 point rnage for 6 hours.

bada boom's picture

Yes there is a lot of magic out there, just think someone was able to by gold at 1276 in the overnight, now its back to 1296.

sumo's picture

Silver bounced off 21.07, now 21.33.

gwar5's picture

To Bill Gross: Declining dollar and lower standard of living were baked into the cake two years ago by the regime when bank debt was transferred to soveriegn debt...  Even the Chinese laughed Geithner's economic plans off the stage at the University of Beijing. The fertive Fed flipping UST with PIMCO the last two years has not helped.

Seriously, Mr. Gross, if you can't be honest or keep up with the conversation, the only polite thing to do is to just shut up and watch the train wreck like the rest of us. Good luck with those bonds.

Anarchist's picture

Two years ago???? This plan has been in the works since Regan.

lamont cranston's picture

What he says, in essence, to pension fund managers (and us), is YOU'RE SCREWED. CALPERS, forget your rosy 8% asumptions, you're broke. And the same goes for the rest of you bastards. I made my billion or three and I'm going fishing. In Patagonia.

Bankster T Cubed's picture

if the central banks/gov'ts embark on "saving" the economy with money printing to purchase securities, what lies ahead is AUTOCRACY

Bill Gross is an asshole for shilling the idea that it will be anything other than that

we need a wholesale restructuring of debts for households and the gov't.  otherwise we go down in flames.

Ropingdown's picture

Gross did not shill the idea that it would be anything but Autocracy.  He simply suggested what realities a wannabee plutocrat or their political shills should bear in mind today.  There is no way to make most people prosperous.  We played that game for decades leveraged on post-WWII reality.  It wasn't Reagan who turned the tide.  The first glimmers of the new reality came with LBJ and Nixon: Vietnam, minorities demanding actual jobs and benefits, GM workers closing down the company.  These, for those who were awake, spelled the end.  Inflating was the only answer politicians could come up with.  Moving off-shore was the only reality that made sense to large business owners. "Keep the US market, keep the Brands alive, move the production."  Simple.

Bankster T Cubed's picture

uh...Gross knows the schizzle, and he walks hand in hand with the monster, always scratching its back when he can.   He is a f***ing jerk.

belogical's picture

As a capitalist and this really kills me, but they've(FED and DC) screwed things up so bad. We need to take the banks in and clean them up. Wipe out the bond and shareholders and start over. Perhaps reduce mortgage back to 1998 or so and freeze credit card limits while lowering interest rates. This would kick start the consumer and maybe, just maybe revitalize the country again.

But one thing for sure. Bailing out banks and corporate America while you crush the middle and lower class is a recipe for the country to descend into oblivion

pachanguero's picture

FU Bill Gross you are a welfare whore

duo's picture

If you go back 70 years, stocks (DJIA) have outperformed inflation (either M2 or gold price) by about 2.5% a year.  That's a lot of risk to make 2.5%, as in whole decades of negatve returns.

If we had hard money and banks paid 3% (real) interest, one could fund their retirement by saving 5% of their salary.

How do we build a productive economy from the ruins of the FIRE economy?  I guess closing the business schools would be a good first step.

Ropingdown's picture

For what should you blame Bill Gross? He runs the world's largest bond fund. He doesn't pretend his interest lies somewhere else.  His backing of Obama wasn't strange.  Putting a liberal face on the disaster for many, which is an investment community smart play.  Behind his words is a useful admonition: "If trading assets with leverage is your game, maybe you should rethink it." For some scary perspective, answer this question: Of these four, who has been the most honest with us about his views and his game? Bill Gross, Barack Obama, George W. Bush, or Alan Greenspan?  And Bill was neither elected nor appointed, and actually owes us nothing.  What a world.

Fearless Rick's picture

As a 56-year-old self-proclaimed baby boomer hippie who's been screaming to his peers for the last 30 years about High TAXES, high utility costs and no social security when we retire, I am closing in on the final "I told you so" that will begin in earnest within the next two years (maybe the next two weeks).

I have friends who say they can't retire on less than $80,000 a year to "maintain their standard of living" and people who have worked in high-paying government jobs for 30+ years who won't retire before "finding an entry-level job" thinking that their government pension is going to be there indefinitely.

The nation which I revered and honored as a youth has grown into a debt-ridden monster run by unscrupulous fellow baby boomers with secured wealth who could care less what you'll be eating or where you'll be living in those "waning years." Truth will out soon enough, and to all those who think I was crazy in 2007 when I said sell your stocks, take the penalty hit on your 401k and start putting your money into gold and silver, land and tools of trades, I say,

"cat food, bitchez!" 

Things that go bump's picture

That is the old "let them eat cake," and we all know where that leads. 

Sherman McCoy's picture

What a blowhard. He's rich, and now he wants to be idolized as a seer. His "new normal" is a load of poo.

Clint Liquor's picture

Bill Gross delivers yet another eulogy for the death of Keynesian Economics.

The funeral has gone on long enough.

Bury the son of a bitch and let's move on.

pamriallc's picture

recognize five things:

1.  bill "G" just opened an equity shop and is now telling people not to invest  (what?)

2.  stan "D" has enough capital and doesn't need the headaches.

3.  there are lots of people who still have the energy to continue outperforming.

4.  the next George Soros will be found 20 years from now, and in hindsight, as always.

5.  the removal of Stan "D" or Bill "G" from the system is as natural as anything else.

they have moved on.  they have made their money.

that means there's more room for the new talent.  that's us.

virgilcaine's picture

Humanity Amid The Wall Street Sociopaths.


What I find important about that moment is that Angelides' questions serve to restore some humanity to this process that hides behind complexity and mathematics and screens while denying human consequences. The sociopath nature of Wall Street, seeing its actions as disembodied from the rest of the economy and society, has to be shattered. These financial professionals have failed as experts and custodians of the well-being and future of the nation.


R. Johnson