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BP Using 30 Year-Old Playbook in Responding to Oil Spill?
Preface for my conservative readers:
Yes, I know ... Maddow is very liberal. But her claims are either true or they are
not true. Let's focus on her claims. If anyone can refute them, let me know, and I'll post a
retraction.
Rachel Maddow
claims
that a top kill type maneuver - pumping in cement and saltwater - was
tried during the giant 1979 Ixtoc oil
spill, but didn't work.
Maddow also says:
- The
precursor to the same company operating the Deepwater Horizon drilling
well - Transocean - operated the Ixtoc rig
- The cause of
both oil spills was the same: a malfunctioning blowout preventer
- The
location of the spill was the same: the Gulf
- The
sizes of both spills were massive
- A "top hat" operation
was attempted unsuccessfully. During the Ixtoc spill, it was named
"Operation Sombrero"
- Chemical dispersants derived from
kerosene were used to try to hide the extent of both spills
- A
"junk shot" was tried in 1979, using steel balls (it didn't work)
Maddow
says that nothing worked to
stop the Ixtoc spill until the relief wells were completed ... 10 months
later.
In other words, the technology for drilling deeper has
progressed, but the technology for stopping oil gushers hasn't really
improved one bit, because all of the funding has gone into drilling
deeper, and none of the funding has gone into increasing safety.
- advertisements -
This is a great clip concerning Cousteau's grandson making a dive in the Gulf of Mexico to observe the detrimental effects.
http://www.politicsdaily.com/2010/05/27/jacques-cousteaus-son-takes-nightmare-dive-into-oil-spill/
Also, to repeat, those BP guys at the Dept. of Energy should be able to solve their probs </sarcasm>:
http://www.energy.gov/organization/dr_steven_koonin.htm
I'm buying some puts on this shit asshole company. I'll done 10% of my profits to the recovry effort. C'mon guys, you know how to use options, lets get a lot of open interest on the put side, increase the stocks IV and hopefully drive the price down.
all the money I make off BP/RIG is going to the GOM recovery effort.
Now that's more like it! Money where your mouth is.
HAL tanking...baaaad news on the horizon..
In the dark of night before the rig explosion, a small BPPB (British Petroleum Paddle Boat) was spotted leaving the rig. The craft named GWB? was reported to be swiftly paddling away toward the Texas shore.
Even if the technology to seal the well exists, it's not in the interests of BP. What IS in the BP's interest is to GET MORE OIL from the existing site. To do that, by way of relief wells takes time, but the public demands that soemthing is done NOW. So the BP's goal is to convince as many ppl as possible that they're trying each and every method to "plug the hole." Then, after million more gallons get spilled, BP will say "see - we've tried everything. nothing has worked. now just be patient while we drill relief wells AND GET OUR F$%^& OIL DAMMIT!!!!" (no, the part in caps is what they will think, but not say publicly.)
Dude,
It's NOT in BP's interest to seal the well? Are you kidding me? The chance of recovering and marketing the spilled oil is zero, and the cost is astronomical. And they have to pay for the mess created by the oil, irrespective of whether or not they can bring that oil to market. The part you are missing is that, compared to drilling relief wells, the junk shotting and top-kill methods are cheap and immediately (relatively, anyway) deployable, especially compared to the cost and time involved in drilling relief wells. If there is even a remote chance the procedures would work, they would be negligent for NOT trying. Whether the incident is the result of human error, equipment failure, or some combination, we may never even know. But we do know there was a plan, created by the government, to have equipment on hand and in a constant state of readiness, since the mid- '90's. Did the government even have this equipment in it's possession? No. Has the full extent of the plan even been implemented yet? No. Don't look to the government to be a savior here. The only thing likely to succeed is drilling relief wells.
Were the aliens you met grey or green? What were the communication frequencies they used?
QUOTE OF THE WEEK: "BP's interests are aligned with the public" - your president
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/05/26/1650120/bp-seeks-oil-tested-judge-on-lawsuits.html
Generic statement. Can always be phrased to be true.
BP is losing money because of this oil spill.
The public is losing money because of this oil spill.
Their interests are to stop that loss of money. Their interests are aligned.
except that each wants the other to pay
Why would anyone prefer a judge to actually know something about the oil industry? Assign half the cases to Madow and the other half to Oberfuhrer (both self admitted geniuses and experts on everything) to ensure fairness.
Given that BP is toast, that should tell you what is in store for "the Public."
crust or no?
The well is controlled while drilling by having a heavier fluid in the hole than the pressure of the oil or gas trying to get out of the rock formation. Whether the top kill worked at the Ixtoc well is not particularly relevant. I don't know why it did not work in that case, however it could be that the resevoir was over pressured and they could not get the mud heavy enough to kill it.
In this case the well was under control while being drilled and while being cased. That control came from the drilling mud. It appears now that the mud that has been pumped into the well so far has been gaining on the oil column so that it is not oil that is escaping. for the well to flow, there has to be a pressure differential, higher presssure from the oil / gas. The Top Kill has been done successfully on lots of wells. The ROVs that are available now are more capable than whatever was available 30 years ago.
What is going to come out of the investigation at some point is that someone ingnored or misinterpreted the indications that the cement job for the production casing was not effective. That could have been corrected without too much difficulty, it is not terribly unusual for that to happen and is a known problem that is regularly dealt with.
The best advice I can offer you wrt Madow is to only listen to her analysis of dildoes and sex change experiments. She might have some knowledge to share on that topic. Everything else from her is nonsense.
Fron this site http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/16/60minutes/main6490197_page2.sh...
But the trouble was just beginning: when drilling resumed, Williams says there was an accident on the rig that has not been reported before. He says, four weeks before the explosion, the rig's most vital piece of safety equipment was damaged
(CBS) Down near the seabed is the blowout preventer, or BOP. It's used to seal the well shut in order to test the pressure and integrity of the well, and, in case of a blowout, it's the crew's only hope. A key component is a rubber gasket at the top called an "annular," which can close tightly around the drill pipe.
(CBS) Down near the seabed is the blowout preventer, or BOP. It's used to seal the well shut in order to test the pressure and integrity of the well, and, in case of a blowout, it's the crew's only hope. A key component is a rubber gasket at the top called an "annular," which can close tightly around the drill pipe.
Williams says, during a test, they closed the gasket. But while it was shut tight, a crewman on deck accidentally nudged a joystick, applying hundreds of thousands of pounds of force, and moving 15 feet of drill pipe through the closed blowout preventer. Later, a man monitoring drilling fluid rising to the top made a troubling find.
"He discovered chunks of rubber in the drilling fluid. He thought it was important enough to gather this double handful of chunks of rubber and bring them into the driller shack. I recall asking the supervisor if this was out of the ordinary. And he says, 'Oh, it's no big deal.' And I thought, 'How can it be not a big deal? There's chunks of our seal is now missing,'" Williams told Pelley.
Hey Gully- that was kind of my popint though- if this get handled inteh interest of National Security then I would think BP stays on the hook- perhaps even with greater criminal possibilities.. just a thought.... help?? CB
Cui Bono
There was another rumor that Barky would remain disinterested until the spill hits Fla, because everyone else was a Red state. That would fit with a similar Katrina game plan which turned Lousiana from Purple to Red.
All in all, there is some strange shit happening every where in government these days.
I especially enjoyed the way they rammed repealing Dont ask dont tell through to take our minds of just how screwed everything is.
The single clearest demonstration of the fact the Obama and the government are NOT in charge of this disaster is that the 'live' video feed comes from BP and not the Navy/CG-etc.... if the USA was on this BP would not be allowed to select what to show us and when.... I think if you could hang this on Obama he would crack- We DO have the technology for this at least.
Why is this not a matter of National Security? CB
Cui Bono
I read a post that claims as long as BP handles the problem they remain libel in any suit. As soon as the government steps in that status is removed.
Fuck with so many legal experts here someone should know.
that makes no legal sense. In fact, there may be a theory for the very opposite
Because ordinary citizens are becoming increasingly expendable. Good point about the Navy/CG - they're pretty detached too.
WaterWings
"Because ordinary citizens are becoming increasingly expendable."
Really, this is a new development?
increasingly; at a recently higher and more alarming rate
Our biggest national security issue at the moment is the team of anti-american academics dominating the executive branch of the government right now. And to get back to the question at hand, they demonstrate how dangerous they are to us with the new moratorium placed on the rather meager drilling program they'd just announced. Sending more money to foreign dictatorships for their oil exports is very bad for our national security, duh. But Odumbo & Cie aren't all that enamored of our nation. It was their campaign message. It needed to be "fundamentally transformed" which is to say they didn't like it at all the way it was.
Shhhh .....
You were not supposed to be noticing TBT.
The entire top level group has only demonstrated an ability to write papers critical in hindsight with theories complaining about what should have been done. None of them has had to deal with real time problems as complicated as operating a car wash.
They all only drink milk from cows that are certified not to emit cowshit. Quite a miracle.
I can't help to watch the live feed, if it truly is, and feel they have no clue! Greed Bitches! PowerOilWorld Control - Until They Don't!
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/homepage/STAGING/local_assets/bp_homepage/html/rov_stream.html
Ruth,
Thanks for the feed.
Looks like they are doing a damage Assessment, while they can see, just what they might be looking at.
Alternatives will change the sustainable future however they must first come down in price. That task may seem like someone attempting to plug a leak in mile deep water. It seems impossible.
I would only add, there are two relief wells being drilled now. Both are moving ahead.
I would hope everyone is for finding a solution to this disaster as soon as possible.
Does our government or BP have any idea what they're doing? Can we please bring in someone who does? Oh, and ask them to tell the truth too
Not to worry, DaveyJones, our Dept. of Energy has plenty of BP guys to solve their problems:
http://www.energy.gov/organization/dr_steven_koonin.htm
I Feel better knowing that he is an expert on applying the "Monte Carlo Technique"
SQUID TEAM 6:
http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/2010/05/squid-team-6.html
...until we die too.
"In 1997, Hurricane Nora made landfall on the Baja peninsula... it later knocked over some trailers in Arizona. But in 2003 article in the American Meteorological Society's Journal of Atmospheric Sciences:
"...Scientists were surprised to find what appeared to be frozen plankton in some cirrus crystals collected by research aircraft over Oklahoma, far from the Pacific Ocean. This was the first time examples of microscopic marine life, like plankton, were seen as "nuclei" of ice crystals in the cirrus clouds of a hurricane...."
Plankton... in ice crystals... IN OKLAHOMA.
So, my answer was clear, Hurricanes can loft what ever is floating in the ocean and carry it inland. And what is in and around Oklahoma... the major food production areas of the United States. How will wheat respond to oil? I know that as a kid, we found out that grass doesn't respond too well to petrol products. How about that dispersant? Copious amounts of that have been let loose.... 2-Butoxyethanol (a paint thinner) Organic sulfonic acid salts (not NaCl), Propylene Glycol and in the other version Hydrotreated light petroleum distillates.
I wonder how the crops will respond to that...."
http://urbansurvival.com/week.htm
It doesn't matter, because Katla will vapourise Iceland and cover us all in a crop-killing blanket of dust of doom!
You heard it here first . . . The "Oil Bowl" is Coming.
A hurricane is a heat pump, moving heat from the ocean up into space. From memory, cirrus clouds are somewhere between earth and space. Hurricane force winds whip up a lot of tiny stuff and loft it way up there. From there to worrying overmuch about a tiny bit of oil that will mostly evaporate impacting crops far away, well good night someone has lost a sense of proportion. The spill is in fact tiny compared to the land areas we're concerned about here.
trichotil
Fortean phenomenon, just like rains of fish and frogs.
Other than the potentially poluted groundwater, what about increased fire threat.
The Russians have deployed explosives to collapse these types of wells successfully in the past. Just sayin'.
Nuke! Nuke! Nuke!
OK, I don't have the bandwidth or time to look up Ixtoc. Is this the one in the Bay of Campeche, Mexico? If it is, here is what happened. The well took a kick of oil and / or gas and started flowing. Pemex closed the blind rams. These are blowout preventers that shut the well off completely. They worked, unlike the BP well. But then they were sitting there with a well that is pressured up , but not flowing, and no pipe in the hole, so they had to do a top kill. They called Red Adair, a legendary fire fighter, but not the best at pressure control, may he rest in peace. He hooked up pipe rams on top of the blind rams. Pipe rams are blowout preventers that close around the drill pipe. He closed the pipe rams around drill pipe, opened the blind rams, and attempted to do a top kill on a well that was not flowing (much easier than the BP situation). He raised the pressure higher than the limit of the casing and blew off the wellhead. How do I know this? I talked to a person who was the expert witness at the hearing. It's a different situation than the BP well completely. It actually should have been much easier than the BP well. I gave BP zero chance of success with the top kill without the junk shot. The junk shot should work if the diameter of the balls is greater than the diameter of the leak.
Everything Maddow said should be disregarded.
Reposting link from above:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oil_spill
Spefically:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I
Cooter
The camera is now facing SSW. When showing oil leak footage it is facing NW. Have a nice Friday....
"Nothing to see here, move along robot-cam."
The BP Live feed camera has been moved to a nice clean spot in the Gulf for your viewing pleasure as a lead-in to the Holiday weekend.
http://www.bp.com/liveassets/bp_internet/globalbp/globalbp_uk_english/homepage/STAGING/local_assets/bp_homepage/html/rov_stream.html
Maddow doesn't have a clue.
Sorry but you are the one without a clue. Maddow is one of the few "honest" and "hardworking" journalists out there today. I'll take her over anyone else on air today. By comparison Fox is not even elementary school material.
You are just so wrong.
Maddow is very bright and very even-handed in her approach. Yes, she's a liberal, but not a dogmatic prog. There is no one on the right who will bring in opposing viewpoints and debate them on the merits like Maddow does. Make her show twice as long and eliminate Olbermann, and the Republicans will never win another national election.
Word.
She has more class than the rest of them combined.
I think people are having a hard time coming to grips with the fact that none of the interim fixes might work. It's a probabilistic question. The odds of success or failure are pretty much unknown. For what it's worth there was a lot of discussion last night at The Oil Drum to the effect that top kill is pretty unlikely to get 'er done.
So it could pretty easily be an Ixtoc I scenario, in about the worst possible location due to the LA marshland's ecological and economic productivity and the proximity to the Loop Current. Not to mention the Redneck Riviera....upper estimates of the Deepwater Horizon spill volume are already about 40 million gallons so we're a third of the way there, more or less...Red Adair couldn't stop Ixtoc I, so why should these clowns do any better?
Sea turtles were airlifted to safety during Ixtoc I; in that respect I think we're actually behind where we were 30 years ago. The Florida Keys at least need to have an emergency species rescue plan and I don't think they have bubkis. We're just going to munch on snacks and watch 'em die.