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BP's Blowout Preventer is Leaning and Might Fall Over
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As I have previously
noted, it is now clear that there is damage to BP's well beneath
the sea floor.
Recently-retired Shell Oil President John
Hofmeister told MSNBC yesterday:
The question is
whether there is enough mechanical structure left at the base of the
reservoir to hold the cement when they start pouring cement in [from
the relief well].***
The more oil we some coming out,
the more it tells you that the whole casing system is
deteriorating. The fact that more oil would be coming
out rather than less oil, would suggest that the construction
within the pipe is offering no resistance whatsoever, and we’re
just getting a gusher.
Newsweek gives
a balanced view regarding the risk of a total structural failure of
the well:
The likelihood
of a complete collapse is difficult to assess, in part, engineers and
legislators say, because BP hasn’t shared enough information to
evaluate the situation. But a handful of clues suggest that the company
is concerned. On Friday, BP spokesperson Toby Odone acknowledged that
the 45-ton stack of the blowout preventer was tilting noticeably, but
said the company could not attribute it to down-hole leaks. “We don’t
know anything about the underground portion of the well,” he said.
But, the stack “is tilting and has been tilting since the rig went
down. We believe that it was caused by the collapse of the riser.” The
company is monitoring the degree of leaning but has not announced any
plans to run additional supports to the structure.
As many
have speculated ... concerns over structural integrity are what led BP
to halt “top kill” efforts late last month. When it was digging this
particular well, the company ran out of casing–the pipe that engineers
send down the hole–and switched to a less durable material called
liner. This may have created several weak spots along the well that
would be particularly vulnerable to excessive pressure or erosion. So
instead of sealing the well, the company has been focused on trying to
capture the oil as it flows out the top.
At this point, some
experts say, additional leaks wouldn’t matter much. “It’s very
possible that there are subfloor leaks,” says [Roger Anderson - an oil
geophysicist at Columbia University]. “But that doesn’t change the
strategy moving forward.” The linchpin of that strategy involves
drilling relief wells that would absorb all possible leaks, both at the
top and the bottom of the hulking, teetering structure. Relief wells
are drilled straight down into the sea bottom. After running parallel
to the existing well for a few thousand meters, they cut in and
intersect the original well bore. BP is drilling two such wells, one on
either side of the main well. Once they are complete, the company
will use them to pump heavy fluid and cement into the main well,
stopping the oil at its source. The approach usually has a 95 percent
success rate.
But to work, the well must be sealed as far down as
possible–if it’s sealed too high, oil could still escape through any
leaks beneath the seal. In this case, relief wells will have to drill
down to 5,500 meters, and that takes time, at least until August. The
real question now is whether the entire structure can hold out long
enough.
One of the dangers which the relief wells are racing against is that
the blowout preventer (BOP) is leaning ... and might fall over.
The well casing itself is attached to the
BOP. And - as discussed below - the BOP is very heavy. So if the BOP fell over, it would likely
severely damage the structural integrity of the casing.
As Think Progress points out:
In a press teleconference Monday, National Incident Commander Thad
Allen announced that the riser package is tilting “10 or
12 degrees off perpendicular,” twice the 5.5 degree tilt of the LeaningTower of Pisa:
The entire arrangement is kind of listed a little bit. I
think it’s 10 or 12 degrees off perpendicular so it’s not quite
straight up.
As the
Times-Picayune notes:
The integrity of the well has become a major topic of
discussion among engineers and geologists.
"Everybody's worried
about all of this. That's all people are talking about," said Don Van
Nieuwenhuise, director of geoscience programs at University of
Houston. He said the things that BP has being doing to try to stop the
oil or gain control of it have been tantamount to repeatedly hitting
the well with a hammer and sending shock waves down the pipe. "I don't
think people realize how delicate it is."
"There is a very
high level of concern for the integrity of the well," said Bob Bea,
the University of California Berkeley engineering professor known to
New Orleanians for investigating the levee failures after Katrina, who
now has organized the Deepwater Horizon Study Group. Bea and other
engineers say that BP hasn't released enough information publicly for
people outside the company to evaluate the situation.
***
When
wells are drilled, engineers send links of telescoping pipe down the
hole, and those links are encased in cement. The telescoping pipe,
called casing, unfolds like a radio antenna, only upside down, so the
width of pipe gets smaller as the well gets deeper.
The cement
and layers of casing are normally quite strong, Van Nieuwenhuise said.
But with the BP well, there are several weak spots that the highly
pressurized oil could exploit. BP ran out of casing sections before it
hit the reservoir of oil, so it switched to using something called
liner for the remainder of the well, which isn't as strong. The joints
between two sections of liner pipe and the joint where the liner pipe
meets the casing could be weak, Van Nieuwenhuise said.
Bill
Gale, an engineer specializing in fires and explosions on oil rigs who
is part of Bea's Deepwater Horizon Study Group, said the 16-inch wide
casing contains disks that are designed to relieve pressure if
necessary. If any of those disks popped, it could create undesirable
new avenues for the oil to flow.
Bea said there are also
concerns about the casing at the seabed right under the blowout
preventer.
Van Nieuwenhuise said he's never actually heard of
oil from a blown out well rupturing the casing and bubbling up through
the ocean floor. He would consider that an unlikely, worst-case
scenario.
A more likely problem, he said, is that oil could find
its way into open spaces in the casing string, known as the annulus,
and travel up the well in areas where it isn't supposed to be. This
scenario could be one reason why more oil than expected is flowing at
the containment cap that BP installed earlier this month to collect the
oil.
Bea is more concerned about the worst-case scenario than
Van Nieuwnhuise. In an answer to a question, Bea said, "Yes," there is
reason to think that hydrocarbons are leaking from places in the well
other than the containment cap.
"The likelihood of failure is
extremely high," Bea said. "We could have multiple losses of
containment, and that's going to provide much more difficult time of
trying to capture this (oil)."
Meanwhile, observers monitoring
the video feeds from the robotic vehicles working on the sea floor have
noticed BP measuring a tilt in the
40-ton blowout preventer stack with a level and a device called an
inclinometer.
***
Bea said BP isn't sharing
enough information for others to know. If there is oil and gas
escaping from the sides of the well, it could erode the sediments
around the well and eat away at the support for all the heavy
equipment that sits above. Bea said
reports that BP is using an inclinometer is significant news. "It
tells me that they are also concerned," he said.
Here are videos of BP measuring the tilt of the BOP.
While
the BOP weighs 40 tons, the riser package as a whole weighs over 450 tons. If the BOP and
riser package fell over, it would inflict severe damage to the attached
well casing.
The Houston Chronicle reports:
Money-saving measures
BP took while designing the Macondo well in the Gulf of Mexico appear
to have dogged efforts to bring the massive oil spill under control.
Documents released
by congressional investigators show that modifications to the well
design BP made last year included a reduction in the thickness of a
section of the casing — steel piping in the wellbore
The modification
included a slight reduction in the specified thickness for the wall of a
16-inch-diameter section of pipe toward the bottom of the well,
according to a May 14, 2009, document.
***
The condition of the well also limits how much oil and
gas can flow into containment systems now being used successfully to
capture some of the flow. Even if a vessel could capture all the
hydrocarbons gushing from the well, some would have to be released to
keep well pressure under control.
Marvin Odum, president of Houston-based
Shell Oil, the U.S. arm of Royal Dutch Shell, told the Houston
Chronicle last week that the integrity of the well casing is a major
concern. Odum and others from the industry regularly sit in on
high-level meetings with BP and government officials about the spill.
If the well casing
burst it could send oil and gas streaming through the strata to appear
elsewhere on the sea floor, or create a crater underneath the wellhead -
a device placed at the top of the well where the casing meets the
seafloor - that would destabilize it and the blowout preventer.
The steel casing used
in oil wells is strong, said Gene Beck, petroleum engineering professor
at Texas A&M, but pressures deep in a well are powerful enough to
split strong steel pipe or "crush it like a beer can."
The strength and
thickness of casing walls are key decisions in well design, he said. If
the BP well's casing wasn't strong enough, it may already be split or
could split during a containment effort.
BP spokesman Toby Odone said the decision
to reduce the pipe thickness was made after careful review. The company
said it doesn't know the condition of the well casing and has no way
of inspecting it.
BP is drilling two relief wells to intercept the Macondo
well near the reservoir and plug it with cement. A rupture in the
Macondo well casing probably wouldn't affect that effort, said Donald
Van Nieuwenhuise, director of geoscience programs at the University of
Houston.
"When
they start the bottom kill the cement will try to follow oil wherever
it's escaping, so it would actually hide a lot of sins in the well
bore," Van Nieuwenhuise said.So far there are no signs that the section of the pipe
below the sea floor is leaking.
The blowout preventer
has been listing slightly since the accident, but officials believe
that may have happened when the Deepwater Horizon sank while still
attached to the well via a pipe called a riser.
***
But the longer the well flows uncontrolled
the more likely it is that the well casing could be damaged or the
blowout preventer damaged further. Sand and other debris that
flows through the pipes at high velocity can wear through metal over
time, said Van Nieuwenhuise.
The chances of
the well eroding from underneath and
the blowout preventer tipping may seem unlikely.
"But everything about this well has been
unlikely," said David Pursell, an analyst with Tudor Pickering Holt
& Co
Indeed,
oil industry expert Rob Cavner says that he wouldn't be surprised if
the BOP ended up falling over entirely:
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If there is a tilt to the wellhead, it could have happened during the initial explosion. There are accounts that the rig moved off it's position during the initial blast. This could be the reason the BOP didn't close all the way. But I think it is unlikely that the stack will fall over, and it's even more unlikely that this could cause a loss of integrity of the well downhole. Having oil come up around the outside of the well and compromising the seafloor is highly unlikely. We know that the 7" production casing was compromised from the start. The bad cement job caused oil and gas to come up outside the production casing. After that, there is a 9-5/8" liner at 17,169 ft, an 11-7/8 " liner at 15,103 ft, a 13-5/8" liner at 13,145 ft, and 16" casing at 11,585 ft. , cemented to 10,500 ft. This casing is exposed to the well pressure. If this casing fails, it would certainly be catastrophic. We would have to see the pressure that the shoe was test to. But I think failure at this point is highly unlikely, though if it did fail it would be a big problem.
I must say that I don't have a lot of faith in the relief well. Normally, when you kill a well you have to hold back pressure at the surface to stop the influx of formation fluid into the well. This cannot be done with this well. It may require a tanker full of mud to kill a well flowing at this rate. There is always a possibility that it won't work, and this possibility is much greater than a total well failure.
When does the next season of American Idol start? Fox may need to move that up at the request of Obama and Salazar
Lots of rusty nails to pick up on this thread. To address a few...
--"Stories of shark attacks" summer '01... "Here we go again." Please explain. Was that when the Aussie surfer girl had her arm bit off and got back on her board right after post-op? Also, why "stories of"? You saying the attacks didn't happen, or what? I've been thinking about shark attacks a lot since the flash crash of 5/6. Seem to recall a nature show where many shark attack survivors reported a hard bump a minute or so before getting maimed, as if the shark had sized them up beforehand. 5/6 seemed like that sorta bump.
--Noticed lots of new ZH posters since 3 weeks ago? Yeah. I'm one of them, tho I've lurked since real early on an posted a few things anon back when that was allowed. ZH is a relative latecomer to the doom party. I'd listened to Max Keiser for more than 1 year for example, before Tyler showed up there. I think the success of TD is largely attributable to the # of intelligent layfolk here, and the back-and-forth in the comments that has a way of shaking out the truth. Almost like an updated version of cross-examination. Seems like a game-changer.
--Speculation, no one really knows about the Gulf. Anh, sorta. Seems like coverage has dropped off, sure. The story IS now 2+ months old, and taking place in a nation with a gnat's attention span, after all. However, the value of GW's posts is that they set off the commentarariat, many of whom are obviously some Roy-Batty-level bright candles.
Keep up the outstanding work, ZH. Love this place.
The video shows how the well is drilled, the casing inserted, and the cement poured.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5670798591045714611#
STOP THE DISPERSANTS NOW
that should be the main priority
oil is natural and nature will in time heal
Dispersants are not natural
are these people retarded? can't we at least agree to NOT pour more toxic chemicals in the gulf?
DEEPWATER RAIN:
http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/2010/06/deepwater-rain.html
why was top kill discontinued if not because they
know there is damage to the casing? mr. odone appears
to be lying. really lying. a big oily p.r. lie.
.
.." On Friday, BP spokesperson Toby Odone acknowledged that the 45-ton stack of the blowout preventer was tilting noticeably, but said the company could not attribute it to down-hole leaks. “We don’t know anything about the underground portion of the well,” he said. But, the stack “is tilting and has been tilting since the rig went down. We believe that it was caused by the collapse of the riser.” The company is monitoring the degree of leaning but has not announced any plans to run additional supports to the structure.
.
"don't know anything about the underground portion....".
this is the saddest comment possible. how could this comment
have been uttered from a bp spokesman's lips? impossible.
but it is typical of liasons to the press and the public. blatant
lying. unchallenged and printed verbatim. but top kill
attempt should have given them information concerning
damage and they should, must, know something from the
information, surely they do. but no one else is to know?
when you understand causes you can manufacture effects,
desirable effects, and you can properly assign responsibility.
bp is a conflicted party in this response and needs to be
either managed or removed, we pick one whether we choose
or not. and live with the effects of the decision.
ps.
michael rupert on prn 6/24/2010, gary null show
indicated, i think?, that bp did not even use casing
for the entire well? what that is about, ??. possibly
referring to "liner"? or something else? and simmons
referring to missing casing? what ???? is missing is
a rational narrative. ........ aaahhhhhh! now i get it.
and forget about that pesky fiat debt fiasco unfolding.
They know the specs on the casing. They stopped the top kill so that they Would NOT damage the casing. The problem was that they had to pump the kill pill through the (almost) closed rams of the BOP. It could possibly result in further damage to the BOP. Admiral Allen and BP have both stated that was the reason. Pay attention.
You seem to take ANYTHING BP says as truth. Well, I have news for you - Oil Companies lie all the time. They lie like Dick Cheney lies (about Iraq and a host of other things) - - they lie about proven reserves - - they lie about spill damage (Exxon Valdez) they lie about their role in overthrowing governments and (Ogone/Iran/Venezuela) they lie all the time ...
.but you, in your arrogant wisdom, believe any and everything they say....
...you are either a BP shill or an apologist for what BP has done
or a BP shareholder?
...you are either a BP shill or an apologist for what BP has done.
And that is what make you a liar.
well then clarify your position - - as has been asked of you... tell us all how YOU see the situation and BP's role in it. You certainly sound like a BP apologist, at the very least.
Pay Attention (as you would have it) to the questions asked and respond.
then why did they run out of mud? they are liars,
pay attention.
It may be hard for you to comprehend, but the material was comming out of the riser.
That is why you need to pay attention rather than shout "liar" when you are uninformed.
Updated: Monday, 24 May 2010, 8:41 PM EDT
Published : Monday, 24 May 2010, 8:41 PM EDT
By Jeffrey Ball and Joseph B. White
"(Wall Street Journal) - BP Chief Executive Tony Hayward damped hopes Monday that his company could soon cap the oil well leaking into the Gulf of Mexico but pledged to "clean up every drop of oil off the beach and return the communities of the Gulf to normal," the Wall Street Journal reported.
......"
not to change the subject but who is lying in the above
quote? i'll give you that i am uninformed/ misinformed as
getting the truth these days is nearly impossible. and
how about the quote from b.p. that the leak will be slowed
to a "trickle" in a "few days". misinformed again.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dk-matai/gulf-of-mexico-danger-of_b_619095...
This is another of the poorly informed attempts to scare the public. It is just nonsense to claim that the BOP is going to come loose.
Look at the actual casing plan supporting the wellhead and the BOP. Here is the data:
http://www.energy.gov/open/documents/3.1_Item_2_Macondo_Well_07_Jun_1900...
First a 36” casing, up to 2” thick was put down. It goes 255 feet down, as tall as a 25 story building.
Next a 28” casing was run from the mudline to 1,150 feet down, almost the size of the Empire State building.
This was followed by a 22” casing from the mudline 2,870 feet down. All three of these casings were completely cemented together and they form a very solid base which is what supports the BOP. There is additional casing inside the 22".
At 1,000 feet there is a 1” thick pipe (the 22” casing) which is 100% cemented to another thick pipe (the 28” casing) which in turn is 100% cemented to the formation.
A thorough debunking of the leaning BOP nonsense is here:
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/6652#comment-659664
Interesting passage even if you are not a religious type: Revelation 8:8,9.
Scare the public!? The entire f**king GoM is pretty much a giant oil pool at this point - I'm not sure if anybody needs to "attempt" to "scare the public" at this point. An funny that - I remember somebody saying something similar when an independent researcher came out with a minimum leakage rate of 25000 bpd while the lying sack of shit that is the US government/BP were still peddling 1000-5000 bpd.
There you go again GG. Blowing BS as if you actually knew something. The entire GOM is NOT a pool of oil. If you believe it is, I can sell you some oil pretty cheap then.
The rate of flow has increased from the BOP. There has been slight erosion of the original crack due to the high velocity of the escaping fluids. The velocity of the flow inside the casing is not going to be enough to erode that. It is the very small (maybe 1/4 ") original crack that has widened and increased the flow. You have no information to prove that anyone was actually lying about the flow at any time. No one else does either. It is still unknown.
Sir, I keep trying to give you the benefit of the doubt. There is perhaps a modicum of truth that when people are afraid, negative feedback loops can be amplified beyond the actual reality. Kinda like when the market overshoots the REAL bottom / REAL value marker in a panic... LOL...
My problem is with YOUR assessment that while the current MINIMUM flow estimate is ca. 30x the "REAL" flow estimate given just a month-6 weeks ago -- and all of this is new information that was gathered in the interim. BULL F*#&ING SHIT. BP does/did not know how much oil is flowing through a well THEY drilled? Please, please explain that to me. The only way to know the yield of a well is to measure the tank at the top collecting it???
BP does/did not know how much oil is flowing through a well THEY drilled? Please, please explain that to me. The only way to know the yield of a well is to measure the tank at the top collecting it???
That is correct. They don't know the flow. And the only way to know is to collect the oil and measure it. The well blew out before there was any testing. That is the original design purpose of the ship they have up there now, the Discovery (?). It was designed to be used on new wells to collect and measure the flow to give a good estimate of the capability of the new well. When that is done the well is tested for a short period of time on a choke with a small hole. They collect the flow rate and the flowing pressure data. They then vary the choke size and get new readings. They use those measurements to then ESTIMATE the production capability so that they can properly size the gathering and processing facilities. You should also understand that wells are not usually produced at the maximum flow rate and it is controlled to control the gas cap or water influx into the formation. All of it is based upon some educated guesses. They only know the actual reserves when the last barrell has been produced.
This is an exploratory well. They did not know what they would find, by definition. sure, they have geologists and engineers that evaluate the prospects but it has to be drilled to know. There are dry holes and unsuccessful wells. So they drilled it and knew that they had a "well" and not a dry hole. they knew they had 65' of pay with XXX porosity and about 12,500# pressure. At that point they decided to spend the money to set the production casing and complete the well. I don't have any numbers for this well but it works something like this. Suppose they would have had a Dry Hole cost of say $150 million. The incremental cost to complete and produce is maybe another $20 million. They can evaluate the formation well enough without that flow test to make the incremental investment decision. And then maybe they don't get the production they expected. That is just the way it works.
Here's the bottom line Augiebaby. Your species is currently carrying a 1.3 GPA in Planetary Management. Minimum for "passing" is a 3.5 GPA. Finals are in August. Good luck.
BTW Have you seen "Gaslands" yet. I love the exploding tap water.
I assume you have your ticket for the interplanetary shuttle. No tickeee, no liveeeee.
Somebody is a shill for BP.
Did HuffPoo flush someone out to here?
Ok - let's hear YOUR assessment of the situation. A true assessment, as in things are fucked/things are fine/ things we be repaired and we're just gonna suffer a little/there's no need to worry about swimming n a sea of oil/there is no sea of oil... Let's hear how YOU see it ... (seeing as you slam everyone else's view)
I still maintain the POSSIBILITY - just a possibility to be thought about - that this spill was done on purpose - as I have said before- if you are somebody who is pretty wary that we did 911c- not even remotely a stretch of imagination - then, you become suspicious of any catyclysmic event that will allow something akin to martial law. My suspicion is that Obama is not in the loop- he is a dupe. We have troops and coast gaurd moving into south states- we have National Gaurd deployed to defend border - we now have Drones deployed over border- we have continuos downplaying of event, until, it is out of control. I think simply like any good player on a sport's team- what are the elements of this game that can be pushed to our advantage?
and who is behind it? you have to admit that the radical right is getting everything handed to them, [drown government in a bathtub: GOM] if there is anything, anything at all to this meme, it is that certain people in high places want to forment a revolution in Mexico, to exploit their resources, (mostly human) and to set up a provisional government in Mexico City, [recall two heavily armed agents from Massad were arrested inside the Mexican Parliament, a few months ago, the Bush people built those detention camps all over the US which are sitting idle waiting for the influx of refugees coming across the border] So how much damage is the oil spill doing to the Mexican Gulf coast, and does it matter?
While I consider myself a hopeless cynic, it seems to me that any "intentional" winner in this scenario will merely be King Shit of Turd Island.
chris matthews is a lyin sack a shit. i wouldn't believe him or anyone that is on his show.
Being talked about is an explosion of a methane gas bubble near the spill site so large that it ruptures the ocean floor, explodes far above the water surface, causes wide death and destruction, with tsunamis following - not to mention that the existing well-head will be obliterated!
Link?
Any south western locals need to move away from there ASAP. It should be clear to those who participate at ZH that at every step the scope of the disaster is downplayed until it can not be denied any longer - by which time you are competing with the ill informed masses and your choices are limited.
A hurricane / storm is almost a certainty at some point in the near future. Long term the toxic fumes, poisoned water supplies, contaminated food chain etc.. are surely something to take seriously and avoid at all costs?
Cliff High's HPH 'state of things to come' reports nailed (predicted) many of these events long before they happened - seemed crazy at the time they were forecast by are now consigned to history as fact. There is much worse predicted including a severe diaspora (mass evacuation) involving the military due to its scale ....which seems entirely plausible at this point.
If I lived there I would definitely be making a plan B, C and D.
Good Luck, I fear you are going to need it.
WTF?
When it was digging this particular well, the company ran out of casing–the pipe that engineers send down the hole–and switched to a less durable material called liner. This may have created several weak spots along the well that would be particularly vulnerable to excessive pressure or erosion.
I don't think you need to be an engineer to understand just what is going on here. Instead of putting a diaper on this puppy, BP just used the gauze. Of course the entire structure is compromised; how could it not be?
We're screwed.
The comment is nonsense.
Casing and liner are the same material, or can be the same material, depending upon what the operator specifies and is required for the well. The difference is the term "casing" refers to a string that is run all the way to the surface or top of the well. A "liner" pipe is attached to the bottom of the last casing and covers and seals the new hole. There is no point in running each size pipe to the surface. The difference in terms has nothing to do with material quality.
If what you are saying is true, then perhaps the reason why it is mentioned that the liner is a weaker material is because it could have been a thinner walled pipe(?) I'm not sure, I'm just throwing it out there.
The well plan with all of the pipe specs and lengths is here:
http://www.energy.gov/open/documents/3.1_Item_2_Macondo_Well_07_Jun_1900.pdf
The pipe is specified to withstand a bursting pressure. Consider that the wall pressure over the entire surface is much greater in a larger diameter pipe. That little hydraulic line running to your brakes does not have to be terribly thick as it is very small in diameter. The drawing gives the weight of the pipe in #/ft which can be used to calc the thickness. Changing the steel spec can increase the bursting strength but will not particularly affect the thickness / weight ratio.
The erosion or the scouring is happening at the small openings in the BOP where the velocity is very high. It is a function of velocity through the opening. The flow rate / velocity and friction comming up from the bottom is not going to erode the steel pipe.
With your evident knowledge on this topic, a guest post would be great. How about it, Augie?
Looks like Gordon pretty much nailed it. We are in for quite a ride here, but we bought and paid for the ticket. Karma-shmarma, it's just the logical result of an energy policy that is not a policy -- there is no policy except keeping the price low. Time to pay the deferred bill.
Well said. Keeping the price low will turn out to be the most expensive policy we ever bought
Only The Doomed See Me
...well then Leo doesn't!
Where's Leo???
Where's Leo to tell everyone things are gonna be alright... while Greece gets sold off
If your photo counts, I'm phucked.
One tiny seismic hiccup, and... TILT - Game Over! This is the Cuban Missile Crisis all over again.
Funny you should say "TILT". The new Gulf acronym of choice.
It's kind of like the financial crisis: We all know we're fucked, but these bastards have the details.
Stop fucking LYING to us already. Arrogant pricks.
Jim is nice. Thats the problem , we got to be less nice. In other words , less words and more action.
Hey, I thought Minnesotans were nice?!