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Breaking: Iran Says It Will Soon Exclude The Dollar From The Country's Foreign Revenues And Reserves
Developing story from BNO. Quotes state media reports.
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These issues and the related or semi related content that folks attach to them are tailor made for misunderstanding and potential conflict. Among friends I attempt to avoid politics and religion as much possible for this very reason. As I have seen both of you and to the best of my knowledge AN do the same. Turns out that there is almost always something about someone that will make the other go "huh". I know for fact that much of what I write will draw that response rather than the "Ahaa". My biggest hope in all of this is that among us we can choose to disagree without being disagreeable. And when we are, say so at a later date and make up.
All the best.
While we may never know exactly what went on on 9/11... and I while I profess to being one of those who admits he doesn't know...
We do know many lies where told.
I don't subscribe to the official version for many reasons... but I don't think (hope) any are because I am antisemitic... but that's just my own subjective observation.
If someone lost 12 friends my sympathies are with that person regardless of race or religion.
I will not allow sympathies to cloud my judgement however. I'm still with Apocalypse on this one ladies...
Then we will agree to disagree :-) :-)
Think logically and rationally.
Feel emotionally.
Never confuse the two or you are liable to be played... that's just been my experience.
When you want people to do what you want appeal to their emotions... not logical thought processes. First thing they teach you about in advertising.
Use emotions of fear to sell a war, insurance, vacination programs etc. Not to say the above 3 are not occaisionally needed.
Other emotional needs sell $200 Nike sneakers, boob jobs, to BMW"s and Mc Mansions... we can't live without this stuff you know..
On a roll and well spoken.
I think you meant to say "Time to roll and start smoking.."
MsCreant had the perfect pic for that... If she shows up I hope she tags it in just for the chronic hilarity. :-)
BTW, who gets to play the part of Bret for MnN?
Let me help all you guys out, and I don't mean to be patronizing but I would like you to know the psychological aspects of how they do it. As to why, that's a whole nother story.
PART ONE:
What is the Hegelian Dialectic?
http://nord.twu.net/acl/dialectic.html
PART TWO:
The Historical Evolution of
Communitarian Thinking
http://nord.twu.net/acl/evolution.html
That will keep you busy for a while.
Hi ZerOHead,
You stepped in it now. You are trapped in a paradigm and can't get out. I feel bad for the trapped boy kitty. We will end up agreeing to disagree, no doubt, but I feel obligated to give this a try.
Ready, drum roll please, hope you are not a skittish kitten.
Logic is only one way to know the world and it does not always come up with the correct answers to what vexes us. Your logic can be missing important components that you are unaware of. Emotion often comes out of a place that intuitively knows something is not right and bypasses bad logic to save the day.
But that is a shallow analysis.
Rational legal logic is what has us in the mess we are in right now. Lack of emotion ie apathy is what is going to keep us here. Logic is not enough. You can present the most perfect logical arguement and you will still not solve the problems we face unless we engage emotionally. One without the other is incomplete. Male culture minimizes emotion and focuses on rational legal logic as if it is the way of knowing when in fact it is only a way of knowing.
I could drive us even deeper into this and say something like the logic/emotion dichotomy is itself an artificail construct which enables and costrains our thinking and behavior, but then again any dichotomy can be reduced thus.
Love ya, kitten head, but logic is not superior to emotion. Nor the inverse.
emotion may give us purpose, but we have to execute with logic. It may not come up with the right answers but that is never the fault of logic itself, bt rather the fault of the premises. So logic always produces the correct answers, as long as one asks the right questions and uses the right premises, and those are based on emotion. Every single premise in part, is based on a bit of emotion since they are logically derived from premises we have as axioms. And everyone has different axioms (faiths, beliefs) because of differing experiences and differing implemintations of free will, that is where emotion comes in. But once you isolate it, only logic can take over. The foundation may be emotion, but the structure itself is logic. One cannot build higher by raising the floor.
Thats my take on it.
TD - I would like to make sure I understand. If you would, please humor or educate me as the case may be since I am an autodidact. When you discuss axioms my understanding is of "filters of experience". These filters or axioms act much a ground glass works to adjust the focus of light. Therefore, you are suggesting that the greater the understanding of the axions/filters the better equipped for success the process derived will be.
I appreciate your time in considering my request and value your opinions.
Gravity, the sun rising in the morning, your barber not killing you with the scissors he holds so close to your neck, the fact that the barber accepts dollars, and the fact that you are not in the matrix and the real life the rules are different...all of these things one might take as self-evident but they are not certain. They pass your, or at least my, filter seemlessly (and I dont really know what exactly would be a fitting analogy for a filter or glass to be honest, maybe the conscience) every time, except maybe the dollar one. For me, nothing is certain, except for "Cogito ergo sum", but I have a significant amount of faith in some things, like the humanity of my barber or that fact that the rules of gravity wont switch up on me all of a sudden as I wake up from the matrix. The meaning and the questions that arise from these axioms are the purpose that I refer to. So yes, better understanding of these axioms does better equip one for the process because it addresses the purpose. At the same time, this in itself is part of the process.
Thanks for this Dice.
You are correct TD... course I've been known to be wrong before...
OK you guys are killing me with this analysis--but i want to say one thing== some say that an "expert" on a give subject is someone who is so experienced that they basically act on "intuition"--so the whole idea of logic and emotions get all mixed up...and if you are try to look at any given moment in time when looking at a life or death decision--if that given decision is successful, i believe it is one that involves an intersection of emotions and reason...OK i have said my peace...
I'm with you Agrotera...
Ha ha ha... I'm never in a box of any kind... don't you remember? (What's his names cat?)
Never said logic was superior Mizzy just be sure not to confuse the two that's all... I've got 'Spidey' senses that while not always correct... have gotten me pretty far...
Briefly however...
"Rational legal logic is what has us in the mess we are in right now."
I believe a rational assessment by our 'objective' peers might conclude that the emotion of unrestrained greed may have had something to do with this "mess we are in right now. The "logic" of the deregulatory and financial decisions made were "spun" to achieve that goal. Perhaps I'm wrong...
And BTW... emotion is a driver of behaviour...
New studies in pyschology (google it baby) suggest decisions are actually made emotionally first and then the mind creates the appropriate 'rational' reason for the decision after... justifying the original decision. Know anyone who thinks that way? Children perhaps? Maybe we don't grow up after all... just think we do.
"Male culture minimizes emotion and focuses on rational legal logic as if it is the way of knowing when in fact it is only a way of knowing."
Just ask people who have made poor choices why they did it. Didn't your intuition tell you that last guy you dated was the real deal? Thought so... frog right?
P.S. I love reading books on human behaviour and the mind... so don't you and Minnesorta come to a (logical) gun fight armed with an (emotional) knife... :-)
I must be anti-semitic as well... the semites include the arabs right?
OK... I admit it... I was a little over the top... you and MsCreant can lay off now... I get it :-) :-)
Check up... :-)
You guys make me laugh... I have so many favorites on this site... but ZerOhead, MsCreant, Layne (Miles), Deadhead, Andy, and Cheeky have got to rank right up there :-)
We are going to force you to choose your favorite...
The rest of us will now be emotionally hurt if you don't choose us...
Let the bombing ensue...
Cut it out... I give up... I surrender :-)
The season of "There is something about Mary" continues apace.....
I just hope I am not the slob PI. ATB
Oh... there are many interesting characters in that movie you could be :-)
I never thought myself as Bret, although I 'm sure I could pull it off :-)
What makes me laugh is that out of everyone here, you attack the least and the one or two times you experiment with it, you get this kind of response. Out of everyone here, you could benefit theraputically from a good ole' attack once in a while. So maybe we NEED you to be nice because we are not. Balance. Funny.
For you, one of my favorite poems, by Mary Oliver:
Wild Geese
You do not have to be good.
You do not have to walk on your knees
for a hundred miles through the desert repenting.
You only have to let the soft animal of your body
love what it loves.
Tell me about despair, yours, and I will tell you mine.
Meanwhile the world goes on.
Meanwhile the sun and the clear pebbles of the rain
are moving across the landscapes,
over the prairies and the deep trees,
the mountains and the rivers.
Meanwhile the wild geese, high in the clean blue air,
are heading home again.
Whoever you are, no matter how lonely,
the world offers itself to your imagination,
calls to you like the wild geese, harsh and exciting -
over and over announcing your place
in the family of things.
MsCreant provides a wonderful hue of true.
Peace
That was a beautiful poem... and yes... I will likely continue to just be MinnesotaNice... most of the time... but I do read some of your edgy posts and you say many times just what I would like to say... if I wasn't so darn nice :-)
Hey MN, i think this song applies to all of us here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KghRxnsN4sY
Hello Minnesota Nice- First let me begin by stating how much I enjoy reading your posts, that you seem to elicit many responses to your comments, and that I love yoru avatar of the aurora borealis. Perhaps I could begin by using my highly developed but little used emotional quotient to foster minds that would be receptive to the message, although that doesn't necessarily match my avatar of Colonel Kurtz on a site modeled after fight club.
I have read the posts below and would like to thank those that came to my aid, I think MsCreant had a very interesting insight related to the male point A to point B logical process - although my being male is certainly only conjecture. I would like to respond to the points above just to clear the air.
#1 I am an optimist and resonate love, joy, gratitude and appreciation. My point was that I could theoretically show you evidence that cell phones are highly correlated to brain tumors on the same side of the head that the phone is held to, and you could respond that I am anti-cell phone and tell me that 6 of your friends died from cancer (one of my grandparents died of cancer by the way). That wouldn't address the facts but would appeal to emotion.
Another point I would like to make is that some random anonymous posting could just be a troll trying to divert attention from the truth, you don't know me, I don't know you, and we don't know anonymous. In addition, I would like to offer my condolences to our fallen citizens that died on 9/11 and their families that fought for the first commission (every attempt was made to thwart an investigation) and that still have questions and have requested a second commission to address their unanswered questions - we will fight for the truth just as you would have fought for the truth if I had fallen instead of just seeking closure for the sake of closure.
#2. I am not really sure the point you were trying to make as it was rather vague. I see two possibilities - that Israel was involved with our governments approval or that they tipped the US off and the US chose to do nothing. However, pilots all agree that there was no way a group with box cutters could navigate planes by sight into the targets - this was a sophisticated state sponsored plan and everyone knows it (you may be surprised to learn that OBL has not been accused of plotting it and this event is not on his rap sheet on the FBI most wanted list)
#3. Light and biased, could it be that you personally might have a bias and it could impact your perspective - this is actually true of all of us. You never addressed any of the items or historical events referenced that set a precedent and help us to understand what is possible and what has been proposed in the past. In fact you should look up the Downing street memo between Bush & Blair that was released in the UK where the leaker was jailed under state secrets issues- this was this decade and discussed flying a slow plane over Iraq painted to look like a UN plane hoping it would be shot down so they could start a war.
I was brought up in a Christian home and it was taught that basically those that blessed Israel would be blessed - Israel could do no wrong. Now that I am older I think for myself, and am not pro or anti Israel (and not pro or anti arab or persian) - check the records on my conversations with Cheeky Bastard. I also have Jewish friends if that helps my credibility in your eyes, but it shouldn't matter and as you can tell I am only interested in the truth.
Lesser minds shrink from investigating or assessing anything that can be labeled anti-semitic, conspiracy, etc. etc. The truth is that there are truly evil people of every race and religion, but there are also good people within each race and religion (logical fallacy of part to the whole). It's very similar to the emotional responses from people that have been programmed to think in the left/right paradigm - a previous response was that I was a wacko from the left, no logic whatsoever. This poor individual could not actually think for himself/herself but simply recited what he had heard from the TV. They have made it easy not to think, but just to respond within two camps of thought (this makes it easy to dismiss anything from the camp that you don't identify with but is just an excuse for laziness) - a left perspective and a right perspective. Rockefeller through the CFR influences the agenda in both camps and fills positions from their ranks.
#4. Check out this video of famous director Aaron Russo discussing Rockefellers plan , since you dared to investigate the others please see this:
http://thewakeupproject.blogspot.com/2009/03/maker-of-america-freedom-to...
Is it any wonder why the WORLD trade center was chosen and people from most of the important countries of the world were killed - it encouraged foreign countries to get involved and sign similar "anti-terrorist" legislation which could be used to curb freedoms. In addition, read the Project for A New American Century (PNAC) so you can see the plan for a new middle east. A consortium of oil and banking interests run the world - if compound interest is the most powerful force in the universe then the individuals with the most compounding interest are the most powerful. Don't mark my words, mark the words of Joe Biden:
"Can a microscopic tag be implanted in a person's body to track his every movement? There's actual discussion about that. You will rule on that -- mark my words -- before your tenure is over." -- Sen. Joseph Biden, to Supreme Court Chief Justice John Roberts, Sept. 2005.
Minnesota Nice, it already exists and is called the VeriChip - already in most pets and proposed to have all medical records and financial records for people.
#5 I think you meant to say incredible, incredulous might be what you are at the suggestion. I never said they were the mastermind, see my response to #2 along with the long history of the referenced intelligence agencies working together (events referenced). In reality, we have 300 million people in the country, and people are sacrificed all the time to advance the strategic position of the state. If this was not the case, we would pull all the troops home tomorrow but they are willing to sacrifice a few for the many (this is the way the world works, whether fair or moral).
You have a right to your opinions and to your emotions, just make sure you always ask both your head a question and your heart a question and use the 5 W's. Also study history, if we don't we are doomed to repeat it.
Apocalypse Now...
Thank you for your balanced response to my somewhat over-the-top post... after reflecting on the substance of what I wrote I sincerely apologize to you... I do have a hair-trigger for any racial overtones or religious discrimination... and I think you caught that edge today... again I am sorry.
#1... I see that you have depth and substance... so I likely should have given you the benefit of the doubt.
#2... In order to accept the premise that Israel was involved... we would have to accept that Israel was willing to knowingly send many of their own religious belief to their death... and take the chance that Jewish Americans and the world rise up against the State of Israel... my mind does not logically go there. However, I will agree that it has always seemed somewhat ludicrous that the highjackers could target both of those buildings so accurately on their first time 'behind the wheel' with the amount of commotion that was going on in the cockpit.
#3... I think that bias exists in all of us... and to pretend otherwise is to live in denial... so your bias may affect the selection, development and linkage of your 'facts'... as can my bias. BTW... at least I put a little more thought into my response than the 'wacko on the left' :-)
#4... Yes... although the link did not take me directly there... I was able to go into the site and search... and I did watch. However, when I read Mr. Russo's bio http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Russo there is nothing there that lends to his gravitas or credibility.
#5... Oh, boy... you are a grammar Nazi also :-) :-) However, in looking up incredulous... it is an adjective meaning unwilling to believe or showing disbelief... so perhaps I didn't use it in is proper form within a sentence... so I will give that one to you :-)
And yes... although I don't claim to have any expertise in history... I do read carefully when people write about it on this site... but I think it is important to remember that history is in the 'eye of the beholder' and comes with its own 'spin'... so before internalizing any of that history as gospel it is important to vet it carefully.
Again... I am sorry... and I will continue to read your posts.
Thanks for the time and consideration in developing this response and the threads it addresses. If you understand my avatar then you understand my perception of some of what I bring to this table. I was once very close to a co-author of the Army War College paper from 1989 to the OSD concerning the ability to integrate future technologies into various domestic applications and the operative conditions that must be existent for these programs to be considered. There is much to be gleaned from exploring the seeming unexplored or settled. I wish you a worthwhile quest.
All The Best
You give "conspiracy theorists" a good name Mr Now by presenting a great viewpoint in that approaches mainstream radical position in an accessible light. If only all skeptics of the government's good intentions, myself included, could articulate their thoughts so coherently. Although it certainly does not help the topic is inherently so emotionally charged.
I was having an argument with a friend of mine about 9/11 and after a certain point I simply began asking questions, since in any debate this is the last line of defense for someone who ignores conjectures and sound logic. When he could not come up with an answer he stood up like a jacknife and screamed "I saw those planes hit the buildings, my friends were in New York, they saw the planes fly into those buildings!" as if that was ever in question. The point is that the logical extrapolation from that statement for my friend is a simple one: that the government had no part in it, on the premise that the government would never intentionally harm any of its innocent citizens. This was and probably still is a faith of his, one of the axioms he lives by. When we talk about 9/11 a fundamental faith is questioned. The best way to continue conversation IMO, is to first dismantle this faith separately, with concrete evidence to the contrary, that the government has harmed its citizens before. Only after that would it be possible to use deductive reasoning in explaining the possibility of conspiracy in this particular event.
That is what I see you do and it is definitely the way to go. Even if you might not convince somebody about the high likelyhood of conspiracy when it concerns 9/11 I believe that removing the faith in government is the highest priority. (it is THE most dangerous faith right now IMHO) Abandoning it might just make people vote like they give a crap.
Disclaimer: not trying to single anyone out here, whichever side of the debate you are on. I do not believe one story is necessarily right, I just don't know, but the most likely case for me points towards conspiracy.
Great stuff TD...
Faith in the Government is indeed what got us all here. We should always question government. If they tell the truth it will eventually be seen as truth by all. If they resist, cover-up, or obfuscate then that tells me that they are intentionally hiding the truth from us. (For whatever reason)
If the government always told the truth conspiracy theorists would be out of business. Without the fertile soil of governmental and MSM lies... we could all safely short tin foil futures and make a killing. :-)
Micheal didn;t bring religion into it. You did. He stated Israeli's. The last time I checked, Jewish is a religion and not a race or nationality of people.
Oh, and what about those Israeli Art Students with passes to enter those buildings> They had proven connections with Mossad. They operate kiosks in malls all over the country. Perfect for setting up false flag operations.
Take your conspiracy theories to another blog. We're talking finance here. I also worked in WTC1. I was on vacation. Lost 700 coworkers at Cantor...go away.
you have made no argument although you have
a nice display of emotion.....
conspiracy by usa intelligence brought down
the world trade centers.....sorry if it is
an inconvenient truth....
see www.ae911truth.org
finance and conspiracy are handmaidens....
secret intelligence agencies did not appear
on a broad scale until the bank of england
introduced them over 300 years ago....
As part of my work I spent many years chasing al Qaeda, ObL, Ayman al Zawahri, etc., in addition to the fringe groups who run reign in SEAsia, both before and after 9/11. Some of my colleagues gave their lives, and we all saw firsthand the terrible results of al Qaeda's warped view of Islam.
When I read the sort of bizarre and misinformed (to be kind) trash you and your ilk spout all over the internet, I wish I could take you and your silly cohorts and drop you off in Fallujah or Tora Bora or Mindanao or southern Thailand. I would take an odd pleasure in watching people you do not think exist cut your head off on the internet. Your last thoughts, other than regarding the horrific pain, would be "Wow, maybe for once the government was telling the truth."
9/11 was a simple plan conceived in Hamburg Germany and approved by the al Qaeda leadership, just as has been reported and accepted by the rational people among us. (If there is anything at all about which we might agree, it is that Iraq had nothing to do with it. Bush was an idiot, Cheney a psychopath...and that is from direct observation).
Perhaps you think Arabs are all just ignorant camel jockeys unable to even fly a plane or buy a two dollar boxcutter? If so, then you are a racist as well as a moron. As for the WTC engineering bullshit...go get an architectural degree at someplace other than a correspondence school. And don't you think that if the supposed "Enron documents" existed, there might have been an easier way to get them than knocking down three buildings? Or you think the blackshirts in the "secret organizations" in the US are clever enough to put together the grand conspiracy you see but lack even the most basic safecracking skills?
Have fun with your conspiracy theories. Knock yourself out. Give your pathetic life some meaning. Go to all the conventions of your fellow loons; the hotels could use the business. But watch out....we're coming to get YOU, too! Hey, what's that noise in the corner? Who's that behind you?
it would really help quell some of my doubts about the "rationally accepted" theory if I could just see some sort of proof.
And the conspiracy does not even have to exclude the official suspects, it could very well be a one that is carefully crafted from a distance, such as the sinking of the lusitania.
Jack Bauer-
You should get the avatar of Jack Bauer, truly impressive and it probably works wonders with the ladies.
The logic here is warped and another appeal to emotion or in this case fear of subjecting anyone that doesn't agree with you to death by beheading - the fact that you would take pleasure in that is twisted. I don't believe anybody is holding up the taliban or al qaeda as a model for civilizations - truly repressive and we can all agree that the world would be better off without those extremist views. However, why hasn't the US intervened in other areas of the world like Africa with equally heinous dictators? The true questions involve motivation for Iraq, Afghanistan, and Iran - They are sitting on incredible oil reserves.
So if there were no weapons of mass destruction there is no reason to be in the country, so why don't we leave? I would like to know why shoot down approval was changed shortly before 9/11 requiring VP or higher approval, why drills of the scenario that actually transpired happened the morning of, and why Fmr. Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta confirmed testimony that he gave to the 9/11 Commission, which was omitted from the report-- that Dick Cheney was in a bunker giving a stand-down order prior to the attack on the Pentagon. He also reveals that Lynn Cheney was in the PEOC bunker, and that he suspected the Shanksville plane was shot down.
I would like to know why the administration fought against an investigation and why Bush & Cheney had to interview together. Free fall speeds on WTC building #7 is also extremely interesting to say the least along with many other unanswered questions.
What if Iraq was the super power and had invaded the US based on a pre-emptive doctrine based on false information and we actually didn't have any WMD and suspected the invaders of wanting our oil reserves? Do you think we would have a few red dawn groups trying to free the US from occupation? Chronology is extremely important, if someone dropped a bomb on your house and killed your family but you survived, it sounds as if you are the kind of person that would like to exact revenge - and I wouldn't blame you. It's called blow back, and I am sure you know all about it.
I'll leave you with two quotes with the current advisor to the administration, Henry Kissinger who had to step down from the 9/11 commission on demand of the families of the fallen, why would he be a leader on the commission???:
"Military men are “dumb, stupid animals to be used” as pawns for foreign policy.
"Today Americans would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order; tomorrow they will be grateful. This is especially true if they were told there was an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead with world leaders to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well being granted to them by their world government. - GLOBAL WARMING, TERRORISM FIT THE BILL?
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."
Please reflect on the quotes above, they should anger you as they anger me. The military can't question the hierarchy since it is built top down, that's why it is so important for citizens to express dissent when they see the country going in the wrong direction. Support the troops in a very difficult position, but work to get them out of that difficult position by influencing the representatives.
A.N.
Great post... we need you here. OK you are here but you still need an avatar...
Check his initials.
A.N. ... A.N. ... A.N ...
Nope still not ringing any bells...
Damn... got it just as I posted. Should have known the work was just too good...
Take your conspiracy theories to another blog....
With all due respect Julia, ZH is about alternative opinions - calling them "conspiracy theories" doesn't change anything. Saying "we're talking finance here" is incredibly naive - as if finance never dictates foreign policy! Hello? I'm sorry that you lost 700 co-workers, but you need to take off the blinders and recognize what governments are capable of - the US, Israel, Iran, whatever.
Think of the USS Maine, The Reichstag Fire, Gulf of Tonkin Resolution, USS Liberty, Internment of Japanese Americans, etc...
Governments do not always have the best interests of their people at heart - they will do whatever they need to do to achieve their goals. You are rather quaintly naive in your patriotism, thinking that the US and Israeli governments would never hurt US citizens. Grow up and open your eyes. Otherwise go back to reading CNN and USA Today...
I like to call them Actual Conspiracies.
I for one can handle any new truths that come out about 9/11, no matter how embarissing or sad.
I will add that many were Jewish/Isreali/whatever. You are out of line.
Where was your CanFitz boss, Lutnick on the fateful morning of 9/11? Driving his kid to school, weird huh? They have 3 Au Pairs for the kids.
How come he changed his daily routine on that day? He should have been in the office, no?
Julia is a dummy.....
Actually Michael... you are a real fruit loop.. you seem to be manifesting a some real Jewish paranoia ... did you skip some medication doses this week... you really are quite offensive... don't you have some Nazi march that you need to scurry off to?
Micheal: MnN is the nicest person on ZH...for her to have posted the above? You crossed the line with your nefaric diatrabe. My friends at Cantor were all Jewish. I have read this crap on asw, your cut and paste theories will get you banned here.
I never cease to amaze myself how only one sentence out of my keyboard can incite such an illustrative response. I never said the J word, you did.
Michael... I'll bet with your limitations on tolerance there are many things that continue to amaze you in life. BTW... you didn't have to say the word "Jewish"... your intolerance it was inferred... not only by myself but others... and I am not Jewish... but can only imagine how readers who are Jewish would feel.
I am only glad that you find such perfection in yourself that you have ceased looking inward for solutions to the world's problems... and instead spend your time inventing stories about how the problems of society are because of other ethnic/religious groups.
Get in front of a mirror Micheal... people who live in glass houses should not throw stones imho.
MnN & Sqworl. You both leave me thankful I am not singing this about youze guyze today.
All The Best dear fellow citizens
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11UUVzlI6hI
:-)
Michael, the issue here is that you and some others are drifting way beyond the topic of discussion. Renumeration. I may or may not agree with your views. The point is that if you desire to use ZH as a forum for the debate of these ideas then author a submission as a contributor here and elsewhere or create your own blog and present them.
Everyone has deeply held beliefs and convictions that need not be kow towed to, but they do need to be respected as much as your ideas need to be. Find the right forum and have at it.
Best wishes on your journey of discovery.
My friends at Cantor were all Jewish. I have read this crap on asw, your cut and paste theories will get you banned here.
No it won't. TD posted a BS 2 page "analysis" of some idiot yesterday that came with a link to the Idiot's neo-Nazi website. I pointed it out to TD on the thread about the Harvard endowment and he basically said he didn't care, objective people could find worse things in the mainstream media.
This place is quickly going to the crackpots.
Again, what is your standard for the discernment of facts and how can you tell by how someone looks or how fringe their views on other topics weather or not their analysis on a different topic is not worth consideration?
If you wish to rebut the debate on point of the 3Q results then please gather up your charts, graphs and research and present them so everyone can make up their mind for themselves. Other wise, you have descended into the realm of; "Anything that person says cannot be believed because I and many or most people disagree with some other position they have". Even a court of law only allows direct testimony. You wish to turn the process of the development of considered opinion on its head because you know what the line is for everyone else?
Remember, the idea that some purveyors of information can be provided an exclusion of the; "Trust, but verify" doctrine that forms the basis of considered opinion has left many folks to be deluded with opinion masquerading as fact under the guise of; "We are a trusted source of information so trust us, but don't verify what we are telling you".
Where do you draw your line of appropriate censorship?
I posted why the so-called "analysis" of the neo-Nazi was idiotic on that thread, as did several others. In fact I posted that the analysis was garbage before I knew he was a neo-Nazi. It's hard to believe some people think you're some kind of expert on banking if you think that piece of crap was legitimate analysis.
Again, you are making several leaps there. I never said it was legitimate as I just challenged an apparent presumption without source backing. I search for "facts" and "truths" everywhere my mind, or what's left of it leads me. I just poked to see if you would present your source links and expand. Instead I review everything but expanded links and sourcing.
A credential is only bestowed by others and sustained by others. I claim to nothing beyond my quest. Debate, consideration with links to sources, agreed or not is all that ZH is about. NO contributors copy or discussion is endorsed by the hosts or subscribed in whole or in part by anyone here but the author. And, in case you missed it, most folks here distain almost all analysis not their own. Hence, the quest for data since I had not the basis of understanding your style, methods and basis of source.
All The Best in your quest
My source links? I didn't require any source links to skewer that nonsense, just a little bit of knowledge of banking, J.P. Morgan and WaMu (i.e. why deposits declining wasn't a surprise) and how to read financial statements. What should I link to, textbooks on Accounting and Financial Statement Analysis?
If you don't understand debits and credits, how to look at balance sheets, income and cash flow statements and understand how they tie to each other, a source link or two isn't going to teach it to you. And frankly, if that's the case you have no way to tell a good analysis from a bad one.
We agree that opinions are like waste removal systems. Since you refuse to source, you by definition, define yourself.
Cheers
As if you could understand a "source" document. Those of us who critiqued the so-called analysis did so in clear enough language that someone minimally familiar with financial concepts could understand. You clearly don't qualify.
Why do Prechterite cockroaches hate ZH so much? If you hate it so much why bother even visiting it in the first place or commenting.
I should have left it to you GG...
I visit because I like to see how stupid people like you can be.
Your just wasting your time as "Your dick" will not get any larger!
I always thought that a part of the GI Joe "on the weekend" mystique was being able to look cool while it was understood that GI Joe didn't need to drive it down the street.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8QKK5IDSXE
Cheers Sqworl.
Mr. Sharts Sir... can I call you Green?
I value your analysis and input... it does cause some of us to question our own assumptions from time to time.
At the end of the day that's what learning is all about and I think that's why most of us are here.
Let's hold back the insults for the anon posters however. Everyone with an avatar here is merely a friend we disagree with.
(Excluding the nutjobs...)
prechterites......i love it gordo...ha ha ha
mike,
i just want to encourage you to keep going and never stop. don't listen to the cacaphony of mind controlled robots parroting things they have heard without seeking out the proof for themselves. truth is a terrible thing to some. just remember one thing though. truth is a blessing on the one hand, and on the other it is a curse. keep fighting the good fight. there is no other way. we who know the truth are outnumbered and outgunned. frankly, i wouldn't have it any other way. the day is coming soon, when those that know the truth will have to defend their right to speak the truth and i am sorry to say, not with words alone. jefferson would be very proud. on this i can assure you.
Repeat;
Let me help all you guys out, and I don't mean to be patronizing but I would like you to know the psychological aspects of how they do it. As to why, that's a whole nother story.
PART ONE:
What is the Hegelian Dialectic?
http://nord.twu.net/acl/dialectic.html
PART TWO:
The Historical Evolution of
Communitarian Thinking
http://nord.twu.net/acl/evolution.html
That will keep you busy for a while.
Here's some more information if you are interested.
Politics - The Power of Nightmares, (Part 1/3), “Baby it's Cold Outside“
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727#
The Power of Nightmares Part 2: The Phantom Victory - by Adam Curtis
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2798679275960015727#docid=4602171665328041876
Politics - The Power of Nightmares, (Part 3/3), “The Shadows in the Cave”
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4602171665328041876#docid=-1433149975726132762
This post #102262 is from Michael, at least I am reasonably sure it is. Here is why I think so. I saw Michael's answer #102372 below posted for a while, but I did not see this anon post show up until much later. I think the anon posts do not post immeadiately. It seems to me only Micheal could answer the anon post because none of the rest of us could see it/know about it to repond to it.
Actually MsC,
I am quite flattered with that Anonymous post. It's not my writing style for sure and I was using its reply button to post educational material for the lurkers who are interested in that kind of stuff because it was at the end of the discussion. I always post using my real first name, I'm not shy about that sort of thing, nor do I mind if someone wants to post anonymously. Also the reply was a repeat of the information, if you look back you'll see an earlier time stamp of the same information.
I do highly recommend you look at that BBC documentary called The Power of Nightmares too. I posted links to the whole series. Apology accepted.
BTW, agreed or no on some of your material I can agree with your assessment of The Power of Nightmares. From so many different perspectives this bit of film provides a marvelous window into many different aspects.
This reply is for all.
Stormtroopers Reminisce About Death Star
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dfDEyLbUSxo
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE5711SE20090802
and costa rica doesn't even have an army
http://www.thetreeofliberty.com/vb/archive/index.php/t-80554.html
Sorry
All wars of the 21st century are wars against Islam. This one will be just the same. Nice job America, nice job EU, nice job Israel.
Yes, the Kaiser, Hiroshimanites, Hanoians, Berliners, etc are all in paradise with their 77 virgins.
you are a goddamn moron; i wrote 21st not 20th ... learn to read
These wars may be about oil, but not Islam. No one cares about religions, its not on the radar. We got other problems. Oil is perceived as a national security issue. Religion just isn't that important.
the US gets much of its oil from Canada & Mexico.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_l...
maybe not so much about oil per se as about the currency oil is traded in?
but yes agreed, religion is a sideshow brought centerstage.
The US imports 70% of it's 20 million barrel a day addiction. 12% of that comes from Mexico.
Canada actually imports more oil to the US than does Saudi Arabia.
http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/company_l...
"sideshow"!?
Oil will be used to fund the never ending religious wars in the middle east. America has been hijacked by the Jews and they will use the military to steal oil and oil rights so Wall St jews can profit from the information needed to successfully front-run oil speculation.
Sideshow, right.....
Welcome back TippiCanoe.
I needed a good laugh this morning...as always thank you CB...lol
Thanks for the kind correction.
Most violence committed against Islamic peoples over the past 20 years has been at the hands of fellow Muslims.
But there's barely a peep from the Arabic media ... or you, Cheeky...
That's like saying a lot of other people beat their wives so who gives a shit.
False.
Russia-Georgia War during 2008 had nothing to do with Islam.
if that was a war, then im Marry Poppins
Go tell that to the families and friends of those who died in South Ossetia during August 2008.
For future reference, try not to respond with a non-sequitor after you have already been called out on your dicto simpliciter - "all wars of the 21st century are against Islam".
Here's more info...
http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=108867§ionid=351020102
Can't be bothered with stuff like Iran. We have some major crisis here in the US. 15 bazillion die everyday because they don't have free health care. We got global warming that is cooking the polar bears so we need to tax and trade pollution credits. We got to drag all CIA agents through court so all their secrets can be given to NYT... it just goes on and on, who cares about the dollar?
Ya never mind, probably non-event..
http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=205640
only 15%? whoopeee..
Hi Andy...I admit I am taking it to a different level. But evolution of thought is part of finance. Socionomics if you will. But since I sincerely appreciate your input I will calm my ambition to get the fear outta here. We need to be thinking strategically and not shaking in our boots. You have always been a keen voice of reason. Thanks for being here.
OK, I have been a bit off agenda tonight but you are a compadre I respect and admire. I have shoveled a lot tonight but not in anger. I just want people to get out of fear because it is not serving anyone. Digging deep, yup, but that's where I'm at. Hope we are still compatico.
Andy, i adore a good geopolitical debate. The Mideast is always going to bring as many views as there are people.
Unfortunately, every once in a while i get on my self righteous soapbox (i am the first to admit that i am not objective on the matters contained in that website). Next time i will dial the shrill factor down a notch.
Lizzy, you go girl. If you have to let it out then do so.
There was no shrill factor in that post. It was very well said. Since when did it become self righteous to express disgust at a neo-Nazi?
Lizzy, your instincts and considered opinion are top notch from my perspective as was your response. Please, very much please, be yourself and do not concern yourself with the rest. That will sort itself out, usually with some of your insights.
All The Best
I agree, Andy, but tonight I have been getting to the heart of the matter...finance and our existance = humanity and how we deal. Yeah, I've been pretty heavy in my posts but we can't let all of this eat us alive. Some of us are secure, others not. Looking at the abominal issues we are facing, at some point we have to look at life itself. Financially, I want Mark to Market back. I want TBTF to fail. I want the taxpayers to bear no more burden. I want the buck to strengthen. I want Timmy to have a stroke and Bernanke to get hit by a Cadillac Escalade going 100 MPH. OK. thats, my finance talk. I always appreciate everything you contribute Andy. You are a gem.
I agree, Andy, but tonight I have been getting to the heart of the matter...finance and our existance = humanity and how we deal. Yeah, I've been pretty heavy in my posts but we can't let all of this eat us alive. Some of us are secure, others not. Looking at the abominal issues we are facing, at some point we have to look at life itself. Financially, I want Mark to Market back. I want TBTF to fail. I want the taxpayers to bear no more burden. I want the buck to strengthen. I want Timmy to have a stroke and Bernanke to get hit by a Cadillac Escalade going 100 MPH. OK. thats, my finance talk. I always appreciate everything you contribute Andy. You are a gem.
Too sad...and true. I watched the Timmy interview with Maria (she didn't even have her Pom Poms) and I truly believe he thinks he has it right. He thinks the policies set in place are correct and will bring us from the brink. Brainwashing aside, he could do with a good vacation. Because everything he said regarding the dollar, credit flows, bank capitalizations, and the economy, were that of an eternal optimist with possible acute brain disassocation. I actually am starting to feel sorry for him because he is lost in his beliefs. He must have gone through the Helicopter brain washing clinic. He's not like Hank who knew what he was destroying--Geithner is more like a member of the flock getting it from behind from the herder and liking it as long as he does what he is told. He tries so hard to sound convincing it is almost painful to watch. He is sold on Bernanke's printing press.They are their own club with an ideology that will ruin the dollar in the belief that the deficit is containable. There is Swine flu and in this case Wine flu. These guys are drinking too much.
H_B, I believe you have it ~ right about Tiny Tim. He seems like he really wants to believe what he is saying and probably even thinks he does. The casting about of the eyes though gives his inner feeling away. His lapse into stuttering reveals when an unanticipated question occurs or he knows his answer is simply not believable or being believed. This lack of presence is especially troubling, given the amount of coaching he is likely receiving before each performance.
He is a [puppet]^3 (A puppet controlled by the puppet of the third puppet) and probably cannot remmeber whether he has ever had an original thought. But he can probably remember any "fact" he was ever given. His mannerisms are reminiscent of Ph. D. students who make excellent grades and never quite get the idea of conducting independent research.
This mess is likely to end badly for him. He will neither see it coming nor understand why it happened even when he opens the smelly bag his is left holding at the end of his turn in their game. Wonder if e will ever understand that he, too, is just another ant on the sidewalk to TPTB?
Yes the little jewess has her perma-soiled panties in a bunch. Too bad so many people cannot accept it when others have clarity in their viewpoints and immediately invalidate them as anti-Semites.
Part of the mass denial and deception campaign brought to you by Israel and funded with US tax dollars.
Israel did what?
Ok how about this. China you get Taiwan, Koreas, and halfsies on Japan. Russia you get the Caspian, Baltic, Black Sea. We'll take the Middle East because America loves diversity. Europe can take it both ways, which we know they fancy, and India/Brazil do whatever they do. Sound like a game plan?
Andy, I admire and respect you very much. I have written some very lengthy posts tonight on materialism and our plight. We need a little more light in ZH....it can get so dark and hollow that fear runs rampant. I'm guessing you have read my posts and know where I am coming from. Just know, I appreciate you for all that you are and have to contribute.
Either way, 9/11 was a mosquito bite on Americas ass. It didn't justify spending 5000+ soldiers lives, 2 wars, and a trillion dollar+ price tag. We could have built a whole second NYC for that price.
I think the citizens and militaries around the world need to tell their politicians to pound sand. Give the militaries and innocent people around the world a break.
aaaaahhhhh - bank failure...
Regulators shut down San Joaquin Bank in California, marking 99 US bank failures in 2009
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Calif-bank-becomes-99th-in-US-apf-21108939...
What a coincidence. I'm trying to exclude the dollar from my reserves too.
why no music ?
probably she has; hence we need to clone her; it's 6:40 am here ...
" I do not want to have relations with that woman "
chill mang; twas only a Bill Clinton parody.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HAMTNJD8xc&feature=PlayList&p=01B2142DC8...
I just mentally replace Cheeky with Eazy and it works great! :)
WOOF.. yar
breakyourself FOO !!!
how does thy know Andy?
gotcha, understand now
I'm going to sleep; she'll be on in 15 after I do that, just watch! :)
Lothar, if ya do she will be there when you wake up. You have it like that, late night blues & belly rubs.... ;-) Take care
Michael-
Reporting from the heartland here... 9/11 was a Biblical Event, nothing less. Half of my neighbors can't distinguish WWII from Lord of the Rings. But dammit, y'all, Saddam HAD to go. At the end of the day, you're talking about cattle.
EX-AD-MAN
Mish talked about this earlier this week...who cares what the unit pricing of oil is done in as there is this thing called Forex and any currency can be instantly traded into any other 24/7
Now reserves, that is a different matter. Does Iran have China-like dollar reserves? Are they going to dump them in a day or over years?
This is THE most IDIOTIC statement I have ever heard. Mish is an idiot and has ZERO clue what he's talking about. None. Nada. Zilch (and from this statement it looks like this is also his IQ level). Under the present set up you HAVE TO buy dollars in order to buy oil from the middle east. This creates an artificial demand for dollars that would not otherwise be there, thus propping it up. If it wasn't so important why all the storm of denials after the Fisk story?
GG,
For some reason people always forget or overlook that key step in the process. They must buy dollars to purchase oil, creating an artificial demand for the dollar. And many of the countries selling the oil up to now have been purchasing Treasuries with some of those dollars, creating a demand for Treasuries.
Remove the need to purchase dollars in order to buy the most needed commodity in the world and suddenly the dollar doesn't look so studly.
Once again, some people are letting other people do their thinking for them.
President Mugabe Jr. on Monday: "That's why we need a well designed CAP and TRADE policy as soon as posible."
Banana Ben: "Only Americans who live abroad or use oil will be afected."
Turbo Tim : " We still believe in a strong dollar policy."
Keith Oberstrudel (Obravda Networks): "As a sign of apreciation for our great leader and hatred and disgust for the deplorable, ignorant and criminal Bush administration, Iran......"
Bloomberg : " Stocks advance led by Oil....."
Remind me to never read a post on ZH which involves Iran or Israel.
I'm suddenly realizing that many of the people whose posts I read every day are actually tinfoil hat wearing 'tards.
And that includes both sides of the argument...
And now for something completely different, for lack of anywhere better to stick it:
http://volokh.com/2009/10/15/treasury-inc-contd-does-citi-make-cheaper-l...
guys, guys, guys, see what Mr. Project Mayhem has to say. From what I've read he has an astute read on the geopolitical scene that is not US centered - which is needed in investing in a global market. And I will never forget that Iraq switched to Euros for selling oil ... mmm .... just a few months before it was invaded. I never bought into the jingoistic excuses into going into Iraq. And going into Iran would be for similar reasons.
Uh-oh...
"I love the smell of napalm in the morning... The smell, you know that gasoline smell... Smells like, victory"
Iran is a state sponsor of terror.
Iran sponsors Hezbollah, Hamas, Palestinian Islamic Jihad and the al-Mahdi army.
They have earned this title over the past 30 years. How is their country having nuclear weapons a good thing?
Frankly, I am more worried about the US having access to nuclear weapons than Iran at this point.
I as well.
In the US the Air Force is currently run by Dominionists, have any of you actually taken a look at the lunacy those guys spout? It makes radical jihadist Islam look mild in comparison.
They are the ones with their fingers on the nuke button in the States, very scary indeed.
true that Emmanuel; i have met some of them, and Saudi clerics are, in comparison to them, like Aerosmith groupies.
The US is the only one that I am aware of that has used them, so very legitimate point GG. If you look at all the meddling we've done in Iran, Iran has every right to be the most paranoid and pissed off country on the planet.
I think Iran's government sucks BTW, but I am sure that the majority of their citizens want to have peace and to enjoy their lives like everyone else on the planet.
This is about oil, nothing more. Always has been with Iran.
Coming from an idiot like you that's not a surprise.
Hang in there. Tempers are flaring right now. How about we all fret over the crack spread for a while, and stop trying to decide if the US is worse than Iran. Good grief.
Have you ever stepped back and thought about what the United States overtly and covertly sponsors in the world... we overtly have military bases all around the world... and god only knows what we are covertly up to out there. I think Iran is a small fish compared to the United States.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_military_bases
Because we tend not to go to war with people that have nuclear weapons. It would probably prevent us from going to war and force us to negotiate. If you haven't noticed, we like threaten countries without nuclear weapons (and resource rich, read oil and poppy fields) and with way less power than the US.
I don't think Iran trades with the US, so the don't really need dollars to begin with, do they?
OT
When this last happened, everyone was buzzing about it. I have heard nothing about it in any news, at all. Physical gold and silver is actaully selling for a hell of a lot higher than spot.
http://www.goldprice.org/ebay-gold-prices/
Figures are skewed as many buyers use Bing cash back stacked with referral cash back sites like eBates. Possible 10% savings doing it this way, bringing actual cost in line with spot.
That seems to be a local problem.
Check
https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist.html
or (German, quoted in euros)
http://westgold.de/html/prizeList.php
I did not buy there, but as far as I remember they were sold out during the panic a year ago.
My local dealer is out. He has one round of silver, that is it!