This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
"A Brutal Ambush At Sea" - The Spin Begins
From ynetnews.com
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ‘peace activists,’ and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter
Ron Ben-Yishai
Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.
Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.
‘I saw the tip of a rifle’
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.
The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.
“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.
2 errors
During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.
Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.
It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.
The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.
»
- 15330 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Indeed, armed with bats, clubs, knives and slingshots, they were clearly well-prepared to take on a professionally-trained, professionally-armed military force. The Israelis must have been terrified.
Come on!! Do you consider a person with a slingshot to be armed?
The only "real" weapons on that ship were the ones that the Israeli soldiers brought down with them.
Given that the raid was in international waters, the Turkish ship had in fact every right to repel the attack. Under international law, this could very well qualify as piracy or even worse an act of war (seizing a Turkish ship in international waters).
EXTREMELY STUPID Israeli military commanders.
Goliath was killed with a sling shot.
The biggest question in all this is: WAS THE SHIP IN INTERNATIONAL WATERS?
The fact has not been established.
Do you need to be there or something? The ship was in international waters.
The flotilla was still
in int'l waters when
the IDF decided to
overwhem them.
One of the boats
was named Rachel
Corrie. This has
got to be the
beginning of an
end to BAD Israeli
policy. Please see
http://www.booktv.org/Program/9500/Palestine+Inside+and+Out+An+Everyday+...
or google:
saree makdisi
for the video
al is being sarcastic.
Correct. If it was in international waters, then the Turkish ship could have taken any and all measures it deemed necessary to prevent a hostile boarding party. They would legally be allowed to shoot Israeli troops and parade the bodies back to Ankara without having to give any explanations.
Thus, it would not actually matter if the activists were armed or not. That's the problem with the Law, people should read it before taking decisions that have important ramifications.
some people actually resort to following their own morals instead of being commanded by laws. Imagine that.
we lost the second comment just preceding Arms
I think its true, they actually eliminate posts if they get junked over 20 times? But it fucks up the thread. That idiot with the russian "armand hammer" on my flag should have a constant reminder of his retarded posts.
It is called a 'sickle' and not some reference to a cleaning product as you called it.
Silly swollensack never heard of the founder of Occidental Petro? (the most famous russian american) another slippery cossack...snicker its called a sickle? LOL
he was named armand hammer because his father, a committed socialist, liked the arm and hammer symbol of a socialist party in the u.s. (not the cleaning product flogged by ronald reagan). however the aforementioned flag shows the hammer and sickle of the late ussr. p.s. armand was born of a jewish mother so is he a russian or a jew? (just kidding this thread is already hot enough). as far as his unique fame as a russian american, yul brynner, kirk douglas and pamela anderson supporters, among others, might dispute that.
just wake up to, funny†
Yes, there was a comment there on how dangerous club bearing activists are to the health of Israeli special forces.
best and most relevant post here.
I would only substitute "morals" with "survival instincts" in this comment. Who among anyone here would have allowed a known wepons smuggling operation to succeed? Only those idiots who would have to deal with it ex post facto.
The Nazis wanted to merely "export" the Jews to the island of Madagascar.
Should the world just export the Israelis there now? (no, I'm not Jewish)?
The Hispanics aren't indigenous to Latin America; should we export them to Madagascar?
The Europeans aren't indigenous to the U.S.; should we send them to Madagascar?
The Chinese aren't indigenous to Tibet; should we send them to Madagascar?
The TURKS aren't indigenous to TURKEY; should we send THEM to Madagascar?
This argument is beyond fucking silly.
Why use the hypothetical Madagascar? What about Khazaria?
Your post makes it sound like the island of Madagascar is hypothetical; it is not (off coast of Kenya). If what you mean to say is that the actual Nazi plan was hypothetical- it was not (look it up genius).
The plan was on the drawing board, but it didn't work out that way for them, much to your glee, I suspect...
The problem isn't what weapons you can use in international waters. The hard part is bringing them in and out of port. Clubs and paint balls ok, AK's not so much.
I don't care where the ship was at the time. Storm troopers bad. Humanitarians more than good this time... impressive. I'd like to see more humanitarians fighting back.
The ship was in international waters.I watched the boarding live, btw.No evidence of paintballs...just evidence of gunshot wounds.
The story above is a contemptible lie.
The Israeli navy et al is guilty of piracy and murder.And the videos prove it beyond a reasonable doubt.I suspect the lies will continue endlessly, so that the concentration camp known as Gaza can continue without interference from those who would try to help.
Operation cast lead was nice too.White phosphorus in an urban setting.Disgusting.
Yeah, Cast Lead was outright genocide. And Tweedledum-dum (W) and President-elect Tweedledee-dee (O) were as indifferent as O is now to the Gulf Oil Megadeath event during that 2009 senseless waste of life.
And even if they were in Israeli waters how can anyone be expected to acknowledge and respect the laws of this terrorist state?
+100. Nobody else here is aware of the use of white phosphorous by the Israelis?
Ya, I remember..was wondering if anybody would bring it up...
Speaking of which, read the Goldstone Report to see how Isreal does not care about international law nor using weapons that will kill innocent victums.
A year ago this past January. 1100 Palestinians were murdered and all the while the Israelis used the banned weapon known as white phosphorous which causes a great deal of burns to the skin.
Burns through the skin, through tissue, through bone. It can wind up being inhaled. Water won't put it out.
Yeah...exactly! The Israelis have perpetrated so many mini-holocausts by this point, that they no longer can get away with the "sympathy for the holocaust" gambit.
They committed international piracy at sea, and murdered a number of innocents.
They gave out similar stories when the attacked the USS Liberty in international waters as well.
Once a story teller.....
Agree totally. The story is a lie. Israel a pariah.
20 people killed by paint balls ????!!!
They pull this crap all the time with impunity.
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5073.htm
TaggartGalt
A sling not a sling shot. Different weapons.
and then that other part, it isn't a real story
We dont need no stinking facts.
oh sorry, forgot the new rules
gotcha..
Gully, a sling is the mechanical system of delivering a "shot" to its target. As either a verb or a noun, the "shot" does the killing. Let's agree to not mince semantics?
"Let's agree to not mince semantics?"
Or semites.
Iambic Silvermann
Every country in the world asserts a 200 mile territorial limit except for thpose who assert more.
That is incorrect as per UN convention. Further, territorial water limits are limited as per negotiations when nations are close to each other. Territorial waters in the Mediterranean are for the most part agreed under international treaties. Nice try, but no banana
when the US enforced a naval blockade around cuba, it intercepted russian navy ships in international and cuban waters, not us waters.
A blockade has NEVER been limited to 3 miles - that's just liberal stupidity and propaganda. it's to prevent material from leaving or reaching certain countries, not protection of a 3 mile zone.
Pardon my language. But are you STUPID?!
The only time the US enforced a naval blockade of Cuba was during the Cuban Missle Crisis. That almost culminated in WWIII.
The Soviets precisely argued that the blockade was illegal under international law (which it was). Blockades are in fact acts of war as it is illegal to constrain the movement of ships in international waters.
Israel could have intercepted the ships in territorial waters precisely because they are territorial and it can decide what comes in or out. That is the law period! It is not a matter of opinions or any form of propaganda.
PS: The US never actually intercepted a Soviet ship during the blockade. They shadowed the ships and threatened to intercept them if they got too close to Cuba. The Soviets turned the ships around before that happened.
Lol, you don't know the reality and you call someone else stupid. The US was protecting it's security - the same as Isreal is doing. Who cares what some unenforceable 'international law' is - who was gonna punish the russians if they nuked us and we went to court??
And yes, the US stopped and boarded every ship including the Marcula which was sailing under russian charter. Kennedy also ordered russian translators to every US ship in the blockade - the russians knew we would not let anything through. We let one ship through and turned away a number.
The Marcula was Lebanese freighter!!
No Soviet ship was ever boarded because as the Soviets stated, it would have been an act of war.
PS: The Cuban Missle Crisis was a result of the US placing missles in Turkey and of the Bay of Pigs Invasion. Soviets (not Russians) were hardly the first to escalate that conflict.
"The US was protecting it's security - the same as Isreal is doing."
Oh yeah ! Israel's security....
Jews walk into Palestine, with a rifle in one hand and a book saying we were here 2000 years ago. They tell the Palestinians to Fuck Off and then proceed to massacre a few and bulldoze their houses and olive groves.
They had NO LEGAL TITLE to any of the land they claim is theirs.
That makes them usurpers, parasites and murderers.
What are the Palestinians supposed to do ?
Security...huh !
+1000
Now now, you mustn't be pissed off about the creation of Isreal as it was the UN that created the state. And everyone knows how great the UN is.
+1000
Hidden Nuke Missles == Publicized Flotilla of Aid Boats
OY! What logic!
+1000
Territory aside, there is a huge difference between intercepting a vessel to turn it away and assaulting a vessel with a boarding party of military commandoes.
Double post
Double post about a double post
The same UN that has Iran heading the Human Rights Committee?
At least it isn't the US or Israel... no small victories.
+1000
Quit repeating that bald faced lie. The 200 mile limit is for ocean resource exploitation, e.g. oil wells. It does not in any way apply to surface use. This is established International law.
"Under the law of the sea, an exclusive economic zone (EEZ) is a seazone over which a state has special rights over the exploration and use ofmarine resources. "
Go read about it here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusive_economic_zone
You do realize how far 200 miles is, yes? Have you ever even looked at a map of the Mediterranean?
~400 km (it's maritime miles, not terrestrial) - and this limit is not the absolute limit: presently, this limit is the continental platform, if you can prove its extension (after approval).
Cant even get simple bible parables right. You are a joke.
I agree. If a ship WAS in international waters (and it was) what LEGAL right does anyone have hijacking it?
Answer: None. It is called "Hijacking."
If they really wanted some sort of shread of legal foundation to stand on, they should have at least waited until it got to within territorial limits of their coastline.
Considering a ship is national territory of its flag country, it could even be considered an act of war/international terrorism.
They were close enough to make the Israeli port they asked to land at. After all these years of jihadi attacks, Israel can be naive about the people who want to destroy them. The thugs on board were very likely Turkish agents. Turkey should be booted out of NATO asap. They are not allies of any non Muslim country.
The gaza maritime zone extends out 20 miles.
http://www.mfa.gov.il/NR/rdonlyres/0D80237A-9B99-42D4-8BA0-FB8627593661/...
Wow, a fact! How refreshing!
Now, what were the co-ordinates of the ship when it was boarded?
EXTREMELY STUPID Israeli military commanders.
Turkey now calling on NATO.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2010/5/31/871525/-Israels-attack-tests...
Under NATO...since Turkey was attacked don't them member nations have to come to their aid?
Article 5 of the NATO charter states so. Attacking a signatory flagged ship is an act of war and a trigger definition. Of course no NATO nation would heed the call from Turkey. That would only damage the reputation of the alliance as a credible deterrant.
+10 Very stupid. But must have had approval of political leadership. It is so stupid that I wonder if some of their political hardliners managed unalaterally to create the incident.
Remember the were the IRON RODS of PEACE!!!
How dare the israeli's defend themselves... they should have just asked nice.
Or they shouldn't blockade an area that's been lobbing bombs over into their schools and killing their kids.
What would the US do if Mexico kept lobbing missles at San Antonio's schools over months and years???
No, we wouldn't ever think of blockading Mexico - and of course we would ONLY do it within 3 miles of our coast....
Idiots.
When I lived in the Pacific Northwest all the drug-running organizations were Mexican (and illegals at that). They seem to do quite a bit of stuff further than three miles, Ameritard!!!!
UN sanctions should immediately be applied to Israel, they are no better than Iran or North Korea, and the US should stop all arms shipments and foreign aid to the country. Because what the world is now essentially telling Israel is that they can do whatever they want, attack and kill anyone, and there will be no consequences. So why would they stop acting in such a belligerent manor if there are no consequences? Israel is a spoiled brat.
This is seriously a threat to the stability of the Middle East. Soon I think some certain nations will take matters into their own hands if the rest of the international community sits by holding their dicks and don't act. These fuckers seriously need a good economic ass-whooping, like maybe some sanctions and trade embargoes, or something. DO SOMETHING!
Carthago delenda est
"UN sanctions should immediately be applied to Israel, they are no better than Iran or North Korea"
That's hysterical!
No it is not.
Please remember - the last "aid" ships from the "international supporters" containing "humanitarian supplies" did in fact contain humanitarian supplies........along with hundreds of rockets, grenades, weapons, missles, all intended to to be shipped overland through Syria to Gaza, used by Hamas, Hezbollah, et al against Israel. This current "humanitarian aid ship" certainly did contain some amount of aid, and yet the captain refused to proceed to the Israeli port to allow their cargo to be offloaded under Israel's monitoring eyes. Israel will claim this was self -defense. If they waited till the ship made it to Syrian waters to apprehend it, what kind of response would the world of Israel haters have given then? WHat if they had let the ship proceed, untouched, to Syria and allowed the inevitable load of munitions to be supplied to their enemies/proxies of Iran, all of which would eventually rain down on Israeli citizens at the next conflict? What would you recommend? What would've been the best path to take, given that all paths have negative consequences (just some worse than others)?
Its surprising when someone like yourself supplies a useful reminder of historical facts that it can get flagged as junk. Your arguments are reasonable and sound. If the ships had docked in the port for inspection as demanded this incident could have been avoided. But then the hidden weapons would have been confiscated. They have no interest in "humanitarian aid".
Yo - you two dingbats. They were going to Gaza. Not Syria.
The commandos should have stayed on Israel, because they don't have the right to attack a convoy in international waters.
By the way, how many bombs the commandos found inside the vessels? How much uranium? How much TNT? Oh, wait... They just found food, shoes, clothes and medicines... Sad...
But, don't forget "those people" are gonna git ya, and your daughter too!
Besides, the weapons on mass delusion were on that ship.
Considering the tensions building between Israel and its neighbors, why would a ship on a peaceful mission antagonize or otherwise get involved? are they trying to be a military force at sea or what? the captain of this ship is responsible for his passengers and he put them all in grave danger when he ignored the direction of the Israeli military. If he really cared, he would have said to everyone to get inside, take cover, and prepare to be boarded. act calm, be cooperative, etc. And later after docking they could take it up with the authorities if there was any improper action. But they did not have an interest in calm orderly cooperation. they chose antagonism and provocation and did so at their own peril. these civilian volunteers are clearly being used as pawns. They obviously dont mind sacrificing their safety or lives for these antics.
It's much more likely that the civilians were frightened and angry and some of them chose to react to being boarded by fighting back. Just a choice that themselves made, very brave if you ask me, but equally stupid.
You talk like it was all just a show.
The people of the flotilla weren't there to make a statement. Otherwise, yes, they should had rolled over in the end. But they were on a critical mission to save lives. Fuck the politics, the spin, the law, and fuck your antics.
To thesapein (do you mean sapien??), AMEN, brother!
The Israelis are starving the Palestinians with their illegal blockade. Period!
holy shit rotflmao. "hey dude your spelling your name wrong". fucking a that is funny. I'm fucking drunk man.this is the best thread ever.
the best ever†
do you still have wood, houston†
Whenever I see you...do that...its perenial.
++++++++100
Morty, can you believe volunteers would actually give their lives to try to save a innocent child? Retard.
"If he really cared, he would have said to everyone to get inside, take cover, and prepare to be boarded. act calm, be cooperative, etc."
Um, that's what he did.
I am Chumbawamba.
Where is the proof these instructions were given? A "Palestinian" spokesgoon said so?
Again, are you really this stupid or is it just an act?
A true swede would never talar such stoopid shit.I demand this avatar be shoved in your ass. I piss and spit and shit in your general direction.
Who the hell is following me around and junking my ass? Its that fucking Swollensack. LOL . She thinks Armand Hammer is a cleaning product. Fucking priceless.
Your declared fetishes are amusing and disturbing at the same time. I congratulate you for your obvious flare for satire.
HT for your ability to take a joke. Dunk a shayne.
Al Jazeeera live video is the source fake-Ikea.
Funny, there wasn't any problem on the other three ships without the hamas terrorists....
since when do you so love and defend terrorists??
After being properly imbued with the facts, the only rational explanation that one can consider to explain this type of hatred towards the Palestinians is racism and ignorance.
No one who has actually examined the history of the situation can come away with any conclusion other than that the Palestinians were robbed of their homeland.
If they were gone, and this was 100 years ago, it would be one thing. But the Palestinians are still here, and they're waiting to go back home. And as much as you simply want them to just go away, they will not do that.
Little boys with rocks fight big men with tanks. Whose side are you on?
Electronic Intifada
http://electronicintifada.net
Occupation 101
http://occupation101.com
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-SbjAanvUqs
I am Chumbawamba.
Little boys with rocks fight big men with tanks. Whose side are you on?
Oh, I'm with the misogynist 9th century rock-throwing little boys completely. Fuck this whole civilization bullshit.
About misogynist, are you talking about the Israelis? Cause I just saw last week a doc about how women are treated by the religulous vigilantes in Israel - to put it simple, just imagine the time it took the US to go from segregation to electing a black president was the same it took Israel to go from electing a woman prime-minister to having women being dragged out of buses and arrested by said Mafia, for riding in the front seats of buses (yes)! How about that for misogynous?
Interesting point you have there. Sixty some odd years ago Israel was created, and Palestinians were displaced, and became refugees, and yet today we have more of those refugees than we had then. You would think that over sixty years we might have less, considering that people die. Why haven't the countries that house the refugees absorbed their children? We now have refugees from a country that have never actually set foot in that country. Isn't that a requirement to be a refugee? You might actually think that these people are being used as pawns to keep an issue alive, if you didn't know better.
Guess people have children and these inherit the rights of the parents, but don't take my word for it - go ask the Jewish how is it with them...
++ priceless
Except the Jews, most of them can inherit nought because they're Khazars from the Caucasus/Caspian Sea.
"Shattering a 'national mythology'
http://www.haaretz.com/general/shattering-a-national-mythology-1.242015
"The Jewish people was never dispersed and never exiled, declares Prof. Shlomo Sand in his startling new book. Furthermore, it is more likely that the Palestinians, and not the Jews, have descended from ancient Judaic peoples"That's right, Morty. It was all their own fault. It was the Capt.'s fault. It was the fault of all those on board. They should be complacent while they're being attacked in international waters at 4 am.
Israel attacking foreign-flagged ships in international waters is not "defending" itself; it is an act of war and such foreign-flagged ships in international waters, when attacked, can reasonably be expected to defend themselves.
Lets see, just a few month ago, how about 500 TONS of weapons.....
http://www.haaretz.com/news/israel-releases-arms-ship-said-destined-for-hezbollah-1.4759
How quickly we all forget...
Riiiight. Haaretz. Why don't you just give us garbage from Debkafile or ABCNNBCBS or FAUX News while you're at it. But Haaretz? Now that's truth.
Actually that newspaper is very liberal in Israel. Most likely you are going to find more sympathy for Palestinians in that paper than you will in most media here. Your statement simply shows you have piled on and won't let any facts deter you from keeping your BP elevated over sheer stupidity. Guess what. Israel has nukes. They'll use them too. When they say "never again", they really mean it. That's why all this outrage over 10 dead when our troops do that daily after invading two countries that we have determined has not done much for us except kill more troops than people on 9/11. It's ok for us to do it, we got attacked 9 years ago. That's why this will officially fall on deaf ears. Don't argue with small countries with nukes. Ever wonder why oil rich Arab states have 50% unemployment rates?. Ever wonder why these things seem to happen when something real nasty like financial reform is going to pass?
Every one of them need a diversion including us, and nothing does it better than one of these periodic entanglements .
If people were so outraged about incursions in international waters, why have the Somalis Pirates been able to act with almost complete impunity. You don't see huge debates erupting on financial blogs over it although the liberal position would be "what else are they going to do for a living".
Go back to DailyKos. There will be diaries there for days and days right as financial reform passes and a bunch of other shit tossed on top. No conspiracies, just opportunity thanks to idiots who can't get enough of hearing themselves scream.
dagger
Haaretz is pretty good. Think before you pull the trigger Betty.
Wait a minute ... Is this 'Armand Hammer' Betty?
and cement, Israel does not allow importation of cement...bomb their cities back to middle ages and then ban importation of cement...
..uhh american social studies. Elementary my dear robert john "mutt" lange.
actually, israel does allow the importation of cement - but only for specific projects like an apartment.
But hamas won't allow those permits to be issued b/c it's better for their propaganda if the buildings don't get rebuilt so pressure is on israel to lift the ban. That way, hamas can rebuild their defensive positions as well.
Why would israel object to that????????
Uh . . . for the basic self-defense?
Not relevant. Just because this particular vessel didn't have weapons, it doesn't mean others don't. How did those darn missiles get into Lebanon? I'm referring to the ones that were fired into populated Israeli towns?
If those on the vessel just sat back and allowed for an orderly search, no one would have been hurt. They knew what the Israelis were up to and they decided to complicate matters.
Those that draw a distinction between international waters and Israeli waters are obfuscating the issue. Are you then saying that if the same thing went down in Israeli waters, you'd side with Israel? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Israelis live under the constant threat of terror, i.e. suicide bombers in buses, missiles fired into neighborhoods, so it's understandable that they take whatever measures are necessary to prevent attacks and protect their people.
It is also understandable that anti-semites can't see it this way.
SiK
saying that if the same thing went down in Israeli waters, you'd side with Israel? Yeah, I didn't think so.
Wrong you are. For one thing, if they were in Israeli waters, the Turks would most likely have not fought back. As it stands, they don't cotton to being boarded by armed goons in international waters. Piracy. Look it up.
And take you anti-semite laughable accusations and stuff'em under your ass hat.
You will continue until you have managed to make yourselves the worlds existential problem. Let's see how that works out for you.
Because their brain-dead commanders ordered them to board a ship in international waters, the soldiers could in fact be legally shot at by the ship crew.
So Who Got Killed?
Among those on board:
The majority were Turkish.
There were also nationals from the following countries:
The United States, Britain, Australia, Greece, Canada, Malaysia, Algeria, Serbia, Belgium, Ireland, Norway, Sweden, Kuwait.
Three German parliamentarians were aboard the Turkish boat which was stormed. There were also two Palestinian Knesset members.
Swedish author Henning Mankell was also on board the flotilla.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64U1EX20100531
Where is the proof that these "weapons" were on board? An Israeli spokesgoon said so?
Let's see: bats, knives, slingshots. Kids hit balls with bats, women cut meat with knives, and slingshots are no match for armed commandos on a ship at sea.
Again, are you really this stupid or is it just an act?
I am Chumbawamba.
"Spokesgoon". Uh huh. So where's your bias son?
"Kids hit balls with bats, women cut meat with knives". Seriously? You seriously just typed that?
Chumba, you are and always will be a mouth breather. Do they miss you over at the Yahoo boards?
Don't get mad at chumb...
He KNOWS the iron rods they used to beat the israelis with were iron rods of PEACE!
If this is the best you can do then I see that my work is done here.
I am Chumbawamba.
You see what?
So you mean masturbation actually does cause blindness?
++
Wait, why did the peace activists have all those weapons on board again?
Weapons? You mean bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots? Those "weapons"? You don't have to protest, non-violently, when soldiers armed with guns storm your boat at 4 in the morning in international waters. You can use whatever the hell you want to protect yourself while Israel was engaged in an act of war. The question you should be asking yourself, but aren't, "why did Israel engage a ship flying a Turkish flag in international waters?"
Once you break out the weapons, however dinky they may be -- you're fucked.
Apathy. The product of indoctrination and far too much TV watching.
The same applies in any city in the world, btw.
And BTW, this didn't happen in 'any city of the world'. Bad anology. It happened in international waters.
Negative, Popo-tard, once pirates illegally board any vessel in international waters, THEY should be fucked....
+1000 Sarge
Two universal truths:
1. Never take a knife to a gunfight.
2. Never fight with anyone who has less to lose than you.
Junk away.
Best regards,
RF
+100
And the number of people with less to lose is growing daily - and in the US, they are armed.
Please keep posting such idiocy. You are an ignorant shill for those who claim to be on the side of and a mission of peace.
The record of a true man of peace, Gandhi, never seemed to have his followers beating others with metal pipes.
The commando's were failed by their leaders. Again soldiers are given up in sacrifice to the political machinations of scum bag leaders who have no moral or ethical strength, character...
It's very simple. Go in with weapons drawn, give clear commands that allow those on-board to remain unhurt, and protect oneself if those on the target choose not to take the safe option given to them.
Im glad the commando's shot to wound.
Knight
"Im glad the commando's shot to wound."
...with paintballs.
Oh, you're buying the "o-fishy" story. Paintballs. Hmm. Explain the 19 dead.
Lead based paint?
Finally, some more humor.
Awesome acrimony in here today. But, that is what ZH is for.
Lead-based paint + white-phosphorous primer...
Best Damned one liner tonight.
Best comment all day.
First you said,
Please keep posting such idiocy. You are an ignorant shill for those who claim to be on the side of and a mission of peace.
Then you stated,
The record of a true man of peace, Gandhi, never seemed to have his followers beating others with metal pipes.
Then you finish with,
Im glad the commando's shot to wound.
Chicken meet head. Head, Chicken.
Gandhi, oh historically illiterate one, supported the status quo.
Which is why India still royally fucked up....
I get it, if you are oppressed, the only response that is acceptable is to be a complete saint and never do anything wrong or violent in response to your oppression...even Ghandi admits that his non-violent tactics like only worked to free his nation from British rule because of that time in history....
If someone is bullying me, maybe the best way out is to always lay down in front of other people, hoping they will rally to help me beat bully...maybe...'
Why must the Gazans and their supporters be perfect while Israel can use their power nayway they want and always be justified because they are defending themselves.
MM Palestinians can not defend themselves. It is written somewhere. In Hebrew.
Turkey vows to send more aid ships...to be escorted by the Turkish navy. If attacked, NATO members will be obligated to assist in Turkey's defense.
Two Turkish activists were reported to be among those killed in the flotilla. Ankara warned that further supply vessels will be sent to Gaza, escorted by the Turkish Navy, a development with unpredictable consequences.
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/turkey-threatens-action-israel-on-alert/11674...
"....to be escorted by the turkish navy". Oh fucking please please please. This would be the happiest day of my life.
Israel can never back down or admit error. Even now in the face of world condemnation for CAST LEAD and today's acts of war, Israel continues to insist they are right and everybody else is wrong. Indeed it is Israel's lack of any remorse or regret or repentance that fans the flames of world anger even higher.
Therefore, Israel will attack the Turkish ships.
Don't be stupid... NATO would not be obliged to 'defend' turkey, who provoked the incident...
Trukey would have provoked it. Nato's only obligated in mutual defense.
Turkey provoked it? Israel, using it's military, in the act of boarding a ship in international waters, when these ships were flying the flags of nations such as Turkey and the United States, which means they are not under the authority of Israel as long as they are in international waters. Israel has no legal right to issue orders to that flotilla, nor to board and seize the ships.
When one nation seizes the ships of another nation and kills the passengers and crew of said ship in international waters this is an act of war. And inasmuch as Turkey is a member of NATO, and NATO considers an attack on any member nation an attack on NATO as a whole, Israel has committed an act of war against NATO itself.
Frankly, the credibility of the United Nations as a global governance body is on the line here. If they do not show the world they can stand up to Israel and hold Israel to international law, then the UN must be disbanded forthwith as a total waste of time and money.
I'll second that motion, ballsack.
I'll take your second and raise it to the 20th power (2^20). Disband the UN, IMF and the FED (though not necessarily in that order). They all cost the US a disproportionate part of our wealth.
Citizen & John:
+ 5000
Well said Betty.
except the part about UN credibility. That went out a long time ago.
Maybe they can get it back?
Hard to provoke something in international waters...
I'm surprised that NATO forces weren't summoned upon the initial attack this morning.
The Israelis must have been terrified.
The IDF fired first...before boarding the ship.
http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0531/raw-video-reporter-claims-israelis-fire...