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"A Brutal Ambush At Sea" - The Spin Begins
From ynetnews.com
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ‘peace activists,’ and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter
Ron Ben-Yishai
Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.
Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.
‘I saw the tip of a rifle’
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.
The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.
“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.
2 errors
During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.
Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.
It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.
The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.
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IDF fired first, before boarding the ship? No. Didn't happen. No way. Must be made up. CNN, FAUX News and ABCNNBCBS have the REAL story.
Since US MSM is unlikely to mention it on the evening news, here's RT's take:
http://rt.com/Top_News/2010-06-01/international-community-condemns-israe...
What else can one expect from terrorist and gangster state of Israel?
It is great that the entire world was able to see the real murderous face of Israel. All the propaganda, depicting zionists as poor and innocent victims of Nazis and Muslims, is falling apart. Regardless of endless American jewish-controlled mass media lies, the truth is coming out loud and clear.
As an American, I am ashamed that my hard-earned tax money support international criminals and their WallStreet masters.
What else can one expect from terrorist and gangster state of Israel?
It is great that the entire world was able to see the real murderous face of Israel. All the propaganda, depicting zionists as poor and innocent victims of Nazis and Muslims, is falling apart. Regardless of endless American jewish-controlled mass media lies, the truth is coming out loud and clear.
As an American, I am ashamed that my hard-earned tax money support international criminals and their WallStreet masters.
"Israel needs to keep enforcing that blockade. If they dont they will have all kinds of mess coming in there."
If by 'mess' you meant 'mess-hall': indeud. Without the blockade stopping humanitarian aid/foodstuffs like those protesters were bringing it will be much more difficult to starve to death those that have been trapped inside the ghetto.
Regards.
mess = "those people"; "they" are everywhere. If it wasn't for "those people" none-uh-dis wudda happened to dis great and glorious nation.
We know who "those people" are.
Re: Personally, I don't want a bunch of mysogenistic religio-political cutthroats in my backyard.
I assume you aren't living in the greatest country in the entire universe because I'm not sure what Jesus would think about you trashing his favorite country.
I can't tell...is your sarcasm button on? What makes you think that Israel is Jesus' favorite country?
Jesus was a Jew if I recall correctly.
Dont tell them that.
Jews demanded His death if I recall correctly
...uhh cuz when he(or she) was floating in outer space he or she looked (or gazed) on the earth and could see clearly ,yeah , those over there , those swarthy types, no not them, them , yes these our my people, otherwise think how boring the story would be to the average christian if he chose say, Somalia?
silly, defending our borders is low on the list of the ways we screw up the world. Don't confuse the excuse we use when we abuse
First, and let me get this out of the way, you're a loser! Now then...
Just wait until the US is no longer able to fund the thug state of Israel, then what?
A soon to be failed state, Israel! (not like it was ever a real one anyway, given that it never has had a set border- always shifting)
You sound like a mysogenistic religio-political cutthroat AND an adoring liberal nihilist.
Israeli commandoes brutally ambushed while peacefully trying to support peace activists!
Greed, the junkers miss the sarcasm. Lol
Ha, too funny. In other news: oil found to improve Gulf Coast waters.
And this just in: A submersible Wienermobile deployed off the coast of Gaza mistaken for Israeli submarine. Early estimates indicate coastal area damage minimal. Clean up crew led by Japanese envoy Kobayashi equipped with toothpicks and ketchup on standby.
oil found to improve Gulf Coast waters.
Eases friction during ebb and flow.
President works with petroleum industry to relieve excess supplies in ecologically sound manner.
The IDF pirates deserve the fates of all mudering pirates
It appears that a cowardly IDF sniper shot the captain of the ship in cold blood before they attacked the vessel
make them wank the plank! :-)
Yes, it ... appears.... So says the peace activists as they beat commando's armed with paint guns with the pistols holstered....
You're either an idiot or a "peaceful Islamic activist" interested in only peace and truth...
Knight
You actually believe that Israeli commandos boarded a ship they considered hostile with paint guns?
I am Chumbawamba.
"You actually believe that Israeli commandos boarded a ship they considered hostile with paint guns?"
That was precisely where the "story" jumped the shark Ponzi...er...Fonzie style.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jumping_the_shark
I have to agree. The paintball gun bit is just too laughable. Speaking of cognitive dissonance here is how Israeli media is reporting the story http://www.jpost.com/Israel/Article.aspx?id=177059
I mentioned it in another thread but this is not just some bizarro thing.
They load paintball guns up with pepper spray and try to use it blind everyone.
And that would make more sense than just paint balls.
So I ask why didn't they say they were using paint ball guns loaded with pepper spray balls? Because they wanted their troops to look as innocent as possible. I'm looking at the spin here. Each side will spin what they can spin and ignore "facts" that don't work in their favor.
"It appears that a cowardly IDF sniper shot the captain of the ship in cold blood before they attacked the vessel"
I certainly hope not as that would escelate this from a mere act of blatant piracy and kidnapping to an act of war.
Who knows what really happened, but there had to be a more appropriate and lower-risk naval engagement solution to this ship. Maybe outsource to some somali pirates as these downtrodded and oppressed entrepreneurs get the bleeding heart lib nations to give up their ships just by shouting at them from rowboats it seems.
thats a brill idea. The Israelis should hire the Somalis to patrol their waters. Any loot the Somalis find they can keep.
I bet some of these activists had a bob or two.
Who knows what really happened,
If the ship was in international waters, this was an act of piracy, plain and simple. The condition that it was carried out by a nation's organized military does not change the fact. No guns were apparently found on board. So far in this thread all I've read are charges and counter-charges, all of which ignore the above facts. The posts supporting the assault frame the debate in such a manner as to start with the IDF's right to defend themselves. Well, who landed armed men on the deck of a cargo ship in international waters?
Power believes it has the right to maintain its position of power, period. THAT is the lesson here. If we engage in an armed attack against you that is OK, but if you try to use force to repel our attack we have the right to...attack you with armed force.
Who really buys that?
Exactly right. We are not debating whether this was politically advisable. As per international law this was illegal. Further, as I have stated, it does not matter if the activists used force or not. Since they were in international waters, they were in fact entitled to use violence to repel a boarding party, while Israelies where in fact forbidden.
But did those Turks forget that the US and Israel don't complicate things with international law when engaging with other countries.
+100
+1
ditto BC0203.
Point that most seem to miss is Iran cuts a deal with Turkey (and Brazil) for Uranium enrichment.
Iran won this political match. Iran 1 ....Israeli zero.
Bet your bottom dollar next time the boat is loaded and not loaded with EUR short but long weapons.
Yes the maths say Iran = Hezbollah = Hamas = Syria = now Turkey =really good neighbors.
First of all, Hizballah is Lebanese, not Palestinian. Hamas is in Gaza.
Second of all, "combatants trained in street fighting techniques who can cause a rukus [sic]"? ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
Third, seriously, ARE YOU FUCKING KIDDING ME?
Calculus? More like numerology, you dope!
I am Chumbawamba.
Thank you.
+1,000
+2000
OH! That's a bullseye. Can I use that?
Israel and has a long history of funding terrorist organizations, including Hezbollah.
Another Zionist troll...
Here's one for you- U.S.S. Liberty. On this, the US's Memorial Day I say this to you: FUCK YOU!
Oh, and one day it will be proven that Zionists were behind 9/11. When that day should finally dawn, kiss yer asses goodbye.
This is true JUNK. I hate the conflict which Isreal could stop instantly with a couple of carrots but to suggest Jews were responsible for 9/11 is the stoopidest fucking thing ever said. aber thanks for the two minutes of belly laugh.
I do not consider what he said junk. You need to do some research.
http://cms.ae911truth.org/
http://theinfounderground.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5367
I dont need to do any research ahmed, I fucking watched it. 100% of the people in Daly Plaza pointed to the book depository not to the grassy knoll. Trust me 9/11 was 19 men who knew how to steer a plane...and now we have a new cabinet post.
"100% of the people in Daly Plaza pointed to the book depository not to the grassy knoll"
Please share your research used to reach your conclusion.
This is an interview of Roger Craig, a police officer on duty at Dealy Plaza... at 3:00 you have the truth (I know, it hurts but trust me, it's good for you)... hundreds of witnesses rushing to the grassy knoll.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nCdW8GntC-0&feature=related
Three buildings brought down with two airplanes. Enough said for any thinking human.
And the Liberty radio communications have all been released to the public now...
"English transcripts of the released tapes indicate that Israel still believed it had hit an Egyptian supply ship even after the attack had stopped.After the attack, the rescue helicopters are heard relaying several urgent requests that the rescuers ask the first survivor pulled out of the water what his nationality is, and discussing whether the survivors from the attacked ship will speak Arabic.
The NSA-translated tapes show that the helicopters were first dispatched to rescue Egyptians (control tower to helicopter 815 at 1234Z: "The ship has now been identified as an Egyptian ship"), and that they demonstrate confusion as to the identification of the target ship."
Oh sure, they were just confused.For several hours?
maybe the cops should just keep showing up at one's door, or pulling one over. I mean, something will eventually turn up...
Israel has its own concentration camp, that the western world has ignored for the past three years...
I condemn the acts of Israel. Some of the most intensively trained commandos on the planet, yet they get taken down boarding a supply vessel...
ridiculous...
Flag as Non-junk (googool bitches)
TD please write an article on what to invest in for WW3 because we might as well be prepared...
Tin canned food :)
Occidental Petroleum -- lots of production outside the Mideast
Two words: International waters.
Who a hell the israeli military think they are to attack a vessel in international waters?
The activists had the right to defend themselves. Even if it wasn't a good idea, due to the fact that the nazi-israeli military had much more advanced weapons.
Godwin violation.
If the jack-boot fits, nobody invoked Godwin's Law, meister.
Re: Who the hell do they think they are?
Our 51st State, of course. "We" can do whatever in the hell "we" want too.
Osirak. Israel isn't a signatory to NPT. Israel is a ROGUE nation! Laws don't apply! In the end they'll wish that laws did...
isreal is a cesspool of human evil
dont sit on the fence
Hatred has consumed you. Is it because you want to drive a CL 63 AMG and cant afford it?
And, I guess, you drive AMG?
The jews the shot the Turkish National Baseball team and their kids who where playing with slingshots at the waves of the sea!
I wonder how America wold react it the Jews would have shot the New York Yankees!
'the jews'? Oops, your mask slipped. You are supposed to call them zionists; it makes your point-headed racism more tolerable, supposedly.
Oh, they discovered a new "race": the Zion race! Being anti-zionist is racism!
Ask yourself Zina where does that comment come from? You show your true colors!
Since I'm a brazilian "mestiço" ("pardo", or "mestizo" how they say in Spanish), and I'm a descendent of "white" portugueses, black africans and indigenous natives, I simply CAN'T be a racist.
You simply can't accuse me of being racist just because I oppose zionism and Israel. You HAVE to admit that I have nothing against the jews, and I'm only concerned about justice for the palestinian people.
*lolz*
Zina meant to say "I can't think of myself as a rascist". Her only mistake, then, would be the use of the verb "think".
By the way, all this talk of "international law" is laughable. There is no international law because there is no international enforcement authority. Its all about competence, talent and the power that comes from these attributes.
Yes, yes, describing something exactly as it is makes you racist. Thank you. You are now on record and what you say, can and will be, shoved into your anus when the fun starts. We know who you are fugger.
If he would have said murdering pirate bastards who all happened to be jewish members of the Israeli armed forces would that have been racist as well? Just a question. What are the rules here?
I dont know Bogdonavich, I dont understand your freakin question man lol? If I was a judge I'd throw your ass out of the courtroom with that quasi-intellectual shit. Dont try to out smart me boy. Try to confuse me with that big ass brain of yours.
oops, you forgot to give that post a final de-toxification :-)
and the problem with that is????? - Ned (Red Sox fan)
Fuck,if you shoot a yankee or the yankees and I'll buy you an ice creme.
I always knew Israelo-apartheid was nuts, but this is batshit insane. The IDF's own helicopter footage clearly shows that while a scuffle broke out on deck -- some soldiers were pushed around a bit -- there was no "ambush" or military resistance, just a bunch of flaring tempers.
This was simply a massacre.
Here's a little test:
1) Stage a peaceful protest in New York or D.C.
2) Then, move your protest into an area that's been declared off limits.
3) When the po-lice come to tell you to move, attack them with little tiny weapons like slingshots, rocks, bats and pipes. Hurl some of the cops over 12 foot precipices, and try to kidnap a couple of them.
4) Count the casualties. Compare.
+1
Yeah. Except it was not DC or NYC. It was international waters and the ships were heading for Gaza not Israel.
The correct analogy would be the US Seals shooting a foreign ship full of Puerto Rican independence activists in international waters. Does that make your argument sound more compelling?
Actually, that changes nothing.
Nope, it doesn't. You're still horse-shit stupid.
I am Chumbawamba.
ZH has now officially become Yahoo. I bet you feel right at home here now Chumba.
You really are horse-shit stupid.
Fucking a, facts dont matter to popov,
Why should they? He's a zionist. God is on his side!
I am Chumbawamba.
Yep, unfortunately since they aren't on God's side, they'll probably slip through the cracks and... surprise, surprise.
The other 5 ships complied. This one did not. They were more interested in confrontation than aid. Now that does not make the Israeli response acceptable, but the aid could have flowed to Gaza thru other means.
Gaza is under a blockade (think Cuba at its worst).
A few weeks ago, how many Greek protesters who hit Greek riot police with bats and firebombs got killed?
Oh that's right, zero.
Popo,
I doubt anyone on this website would be seen anywhere near a protest perceived to be the slightest bit pro-Palestinian. You just can't do that in the US if you have something to lose.
-Bluelou
Nor can you appear to be critical of Israeli policies lest you're attacked as being anti-semite (which is technically a stupid assed distortion, as "semite" also includes Palestinians- leave it to the Zionists to take over everything)
Power never allows facts...
And (Christian) Assyrians. Not to mention that most Eastern Europe Jews (or converts) aren't even Semitic!
So, you've never been on a college campus?
"Then, move your protest into an area that's been declared off limits."
And the Israeli's have the authority to declare international waters "off limits" under what authority there slick? Because we and by extension our vassal states own the world and everything in it and all those "rules" are just for other and don't apply to us?
It's ironic how those who have long complained about being persecuted have now become the oppressors.
The jews were persecuted, not the zionists. And the zionists helped the Nazis to persecute jews.
Indeud.
What I find hilarious is those who bellow 'Anti semitism!!" the moment there is a hint of anyone questioning Isreali 'foreign' policies.
They remind me of the stupidity of those inane jingoists, now eating their own tails, who screeched 'Traitor!!' if you questioned any aspect, no matter how egregious, of American domestic/foreign policy after September 11, 2001.
Stupid stupid, real dumb.
I have a friend that admires Israel because they kick ass and take names, unlike the US.
I'm all for kicking ass and taking names.
'But what if Israel's asskicking and nametaking is at a direct detriment to the USA?'
Doesn't matter. They have achieved admiration status for the US hardliners frustrated at their own impotence.
WWell this farce should put a bigger dent in that perception than the USS Liberty...a 'kick ass and take names' approach would've been to sink these protest boats with the same German-made torpedoes used on that RoK ship.
Yeah, they sure kicked the ass of 34 American sailors from the USS Liberty. But they didn't take names. In fact, the names of those US servicemembers who were murdered were not allowed to be taken, lest the truth come out.
Remember the USS Liberty, bitches.
I am Chumbawamba.
+ 1 there Chumba. Today I am trying to remember all who fought and died for our country.
You know, back when it was our country.
W/o the billions of "aid" from the US Israel wouldn't be doing much ass-kicking.
That is actually a well-known psychological phenomenon, observed in dysfunctional abusive families quite often. The abused, in the fullness of time, becomes the abuser
We called it " I learned it from watching you".
Anybody else think it's a strange coincidence that the aggressive actions come not long after Rahm's visit?
International Jewry has been pushing hard for another war for quite some time now. They are the bloodthirsty sadistic bastards that cant leave the world in peace with their wars and revolutions and perverse propaganda. I hope this time around they will meet their demise with the help of economic crisis. By now nobody is fooled anymore about who is behind the misery that our peoples are going through. They are the alien race, the serpents that have corrupted and undermined every country they were ever allowed to live in. This is the Fable of Chicken and Ducks all over again.
There's no such organized entity named "International Jewry".
Thousands of jews around the world oppose zionism and have nothing to do with Israel crimes.
That is why those millions of jews vote every time for the candidate that is "good for Israel". Work on your story.
As opposed to other special-interest groups.
(And which candidate was that btw?)
Thanks for making the point. Jewish people are great. Smart, and girls are fucking hot. Israel on the other hand is a state created without a firm legal basis and which continues to violate that same international law that created it (and is its only tenous defense for existence).
JStreet "a unique problem" - says the US Israel Ambassador
http://www.forward.com/articles/120600/
Agree with your Jewish girl statement. The Jewish people have as much fault as the American people for what either country is doing. You can look at that a lot of different ways and history does.
Not to take this off on a tangent, but war is historically a sound legal basis for state creation.
I still don't understand the motive behind the attack. Did the IDF find anything onboard? Was it a success?
The motivation? Extermination. Gaza has one too many dirty A-rabs. Israel needs its lebensraum.
I am Chumbawamba.
On Memorial Day it is fitting to give thanks to the sacrifices of those who spilled blood so that we may continue to grasp for liberty, and with respect to this thread that includes the servicemen killed on the USS Liberty.
+100
Memorial Day, when we pretend that we live in a free country because of all the people who were killed in the government’s senseless wars. ~Harry Browne
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Liberty_incident
and don't forget the important part of the story. The two countries exchanged money and the incident was "officially closed"
+ 1000000. They died thinking they were doing the right thing.
Ah, good to see that frat-boys still rule the earth. What would we do for entertainment if we didn't have violent dumbass males to watch?
since i dont know, i gotta ask you all. What is zionist? To be a jew, infers lineage and religion. Zionist, i am at a loss.
I despise all religions equally to be sure.
Here's a starter
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zionism
The best I came across was a 1996 documentary shown on SBS (Australia) called "Story of the land". Can't find it anywhere now. Doesn't even appear on google search.
A "zionist" is someone who believes that the land of Palestine was ordained to belong to the Jews through God's word. It also includes those who, for purposes of world domination and conquest, believe in keeping Jews on stolen land in the midst of tens of millions of hostile Arabs.
Zionists are not necessarily Jews, and not all Jews are zionists. Some zionists are actually balding fat Christian white men, like Dick Cheney and Jean Kirkpatrick. Many Jews abhor zionism, such as Norman Finkelstein, whose parents were murdered in Nazi death camps.
Zionism is a political ideology, much like nazism, fascism, and Stalinism. It has nothing to do with the Jewish religion inasmuch as it can use such to claim legitimacy for its goals, which ultimately is to rule the world.
I am Chumbawamba.
FWIW, Jeane was a woman. She died in 06.
I rarely, if ever, write anything unintentionally.
I am Chumbawamba.
Thought it also had a religious connotation; meaning State before religion/God.
chumba,
Your zionist definition while accurate, only begins to scratch the surface describing the unholy alliance dominating our world both politically and economically. Their ultimate goal is to create a nwo and enslavement of all. I am surprised by how many on ZH equate that to anti Jewish.
Chumba,
Have you read The Transfer Agreement, by Edwin Black (Jewish author)? It is a fascinating historical account of the Zionist movement to establish a secular Jewish State. Zionist leaders even considered establishing a Jewish State in Africa, but decided to take advantage of the strong Christian Zionists support for establishing it in Palestine. Black wrote another eye opening book, IBM and the Holocaust.
The Zionist movement in America can be documented as far back as 1843 with the establishment of B'nai B'rith in New York. Do you have any resources documenting the movement prior to this?
sort of like the right wing republican anti gay, magic underpant wearing here come jesus crowd.
Well , all the cotten picken religions suck.
Fact remains its the BELIEVERS of all stripes that are the problem. Better to know for sure than believe .
Chumbawamba, i have a real hard time with the hate thingy. See, i do understand, both sides are at fault and the bulk of the faults is ignorance of who and what we are.
i am for more love and less greed. WE ALL are stuck here together in a world we are destroying.
Thank you for the link. J6P gonna learn about them thar zionistas.
Both sides are NOT at fault. One side has been robbed of their home, while the other side rubs it in by killing their women and children.
I am Chumbawamba.
chumba, in case you return, i had no idea this shit gets so heavy. Been reading up on Zionism . I see much as you do, but it appears we cant do crap about it. Back to my tepee and a bowl of herbs.
Look Shlomo, you guys fucked up by boarding a ship in international waters. Period.
No facts yet, but plenty of conclusions. Is there a disconnect or is it just me?
Woah, cool! When I junked you it said seven, then turned to nine - I think I have been granted double-junking power for the day. Heh heh heh heh.
Nope, it just means by the time you got to this fool, someone else had already added to the pile of junk. :>)
More comment scrubbing, too. RR is now the receiver of my message. WTF.
Spot on RR.
I'd rather read about BP. There is a disconnect there also.
Rocky, I too would like to see some more facts.
Hey, if you spend too much time here you'll get hungry! Ask VeloBabe if you can root around in her trash! :)
Israel? Facts? HAHAHAHAHA! Good one; took me a second to get it.
bears like trash, a lot too.
Well, DCRB, I might like to root around but trash is not what came to mind.
Good luck getting the "facts" - they'll just get in the way.
Big disconnect. This is where emotion rules and facts take a back seat especially if they aren't favorable to the meme that Israel is an evil country. Reaction most often seen by almost all on the left and bigots in general with out regard to political ideology.
Even if the facts showed that Israel fucked up in a big way and they came out with apologies and recriminations that would enrage these people even more because why waste an opportunity to go batshit insane on people they don't like based on nothing more than GP? If they were consistent they would be protesting the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nope. That's worth 60 billion for 4 months just for Afghanistan. Which by the way is about half of what the US has given to Israel since 1973. The aid they had gotten before was extremely light. About 75% of the aid they get now, has to be spent directly with our defense contractors. It's a reach around to the defense industry which is why it won't stop. It's not much in the relative scheme of things but if Israel buys x amount of F-15s, then the sales people call the other middle eastern states and tell them which forces them to buy more. Call it a loss leader. Israel gets about 500 million they can use for infrastructure. Considering their GDP is over 130 Billion for 5 Million people, it's a joke when people scream "jerk their aid". Like that will hurt. Their defense industry is one of their number one exports as is their security for computers, and the prowess in Chips and other key components that drives our computer industry. They hold back some exports because of US "concerns" which is what the aid buys us. The notion that Israel will collapse and die without it simply shows people have no idea what they are talking about.
Every year the Israelis get a litte more heavy-handed, and a little more stupid. Their guiding philosophy seems to be, whatever they do they will eventually get away with. The precedent was set by the Liberty incident, which eerily prefigures this thing.
When the wind changes, they will be very surprised.
Gee, I wonder where they learned that?
The Americans, perhaps?
Plain ridiculous to suggest that there is a jihadist propaganda machine, when all news media is controlled by jews. When in a pit, you stop digging, but not if you are a zionist. Nobody believes you anymore. Even in USA people are waking up to the fact that jews are running America. People in Asia, in Europe are now becoming fully aware, through the screen of zionist news media propaganda, that something is not right when so many financiers, political leaders, court judges, educators, are jews. Too many, just too many to be a coincidence.