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"A Brutal Ambush At Sea" - The Spin Begins
From ynetnews.com
Ron Ben Yishai recounts bloody clash aboard Gaza-bound vessel: The lacking crowd-dispersal means, the brutal violence of ‘peace activists,’ and the attempt to bring down an IDF helicopter
Ron Ben-Yishai
Our Navy commandoes fell right into the hands of the Gaza mission members. A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck where a helicopter was to deploy the first team of the elite Flotilla 13 unit. The original plan was to disembark on the top deck, and from there rush to the vessel’s bridge and order the Marmara’s captain to stop.
Officials estimated that passengers will show slight resistance, and possibly minor violence; for that reason, the operation’s commander decided to bring the helicopter directly above the top deck. The first rope that soldiers used in order to descend down to the ship was wrested away by activists, most of them Turks, and tied to an antenna with the hopes of bringing the chopper down. However, Flotilla 13 fighters decided to carry on.
Navy commandoes slid down to the vessel one by one, yet then the unexpected occurred: The passengers that awaited them on the deck pulled out bats, clubs, and slingshots with glass marbles, assaulting each soldier as he disembarked. The fighters were nabbed one by one and were beaten up badly, yet they attempted to fight back.
However, to their misfortune, they were only equipped with paintball rifles used to disperse minor protests, such as the ones held in Bilin. The paintballs obviously made no impression on the activists, who kept on beating the troops up and even attempted to wrest away their weapons.
One soldier who came to the aid of a comrade was captured by the rioters and sustained severe blows. The commandoes were equipped with handguns but were told they should only use them in the face of life-threatening situations. When they came down from the chopper, they kept on shouting to each other “don’t shoot, don’t shoot,” even though they sustained numerous blows.
‘I saw the tip of a rifle’
The Navy commandoes were prepared to mostly encounter political activists seeking to hold a protest, rather than trained street fighters. The soldiers were told they were to verbally convince activists who offer resistance to give up, and only then use paintballs. They were permitted to use their handguns only under extreme circumstances.
The planned rush towards the vessel’s bridge became impossible, even when a second chopper was brought in with another crew of soldiers. “Throw stun grenades,” shouted Flotilla 13’s commander who monitored the operation. The Navy chief was not too far, on board a speedboat belonging to Flotilla 13, along with forces who attempted to climb into the back of the ship.
The forces hurled stun grenades, yet the rioters on the top deck, whose number swelled up to 30 by that time, kept on beating up about 30 commandoes who kept gliding their way one by one from the helicopter. At one point, the attackers nabbed one commando, wrested away his handgun, and threw him down from the top deck to the lower deck, 30 feet below. The soldier sustained a serious head wound and lost his consciousness.
Only after this injury did Flotilla 13 troops ask for permission to use live fire. The commander approved it: You can go ahead and fire. The soldiers pulled out their handguns and started shooting at the rioters’ legs, a move that ultimately neutralized them. Meanwhile, the rioters started to fire back at the commandoes.
“I saw the tip of a rifle sticking out of the stairwell,” one commando said. “He fired at us and we fired back. We didn’t see if we hit him. We looked for him later but couldn’t find him.” Two soldiers sustained gunshot wounds to their knee and stomach after rioters apparently fired at them using guns wrested away from troops.
2 errors
During the commotion, another commando was stabbed with a knife. In a later search aboard the Marmara, soldiers found caches of bats, clubs, knives, and slingshots used by the rioters ahead of the IDF takeover. It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.
Some passengers on the ship stood at the back and pounded the soldiers’ hands as they attempted to climb on board. Only after a 30-minute shootout and brutal assaults using clubs and knifes did commandoes manage to reach the bridge and take over the Marmara.
It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok. The forces that disembarked from the helicopters were few; just dozens of troops – not enough to contend with the large group awaiting them.
The second error was that commanders did not address seriously enough the fact that a group of men were expecting the soldiers on the top deck. Had they addressed this more seriously, they may have hurled tear-gas grenades and smoke grenades from the helicopter to create a screen that would have enabled them to carry out their mission, without the fighters falling right into the hands of the rioters, who severely assaulted them.
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EoOZKjAjlk
CB - RIP
+inf
very well done
+ mucho
Keep posting that from time to time to remind us...
I pick up the sparkling beads
in black,
this thing that moved once
around flesh,
and I call God a liar,
I say anything that moved
like that
or knew
my name
could never die
in the common verity of dying,
and I pick
up her lovely
dress,
all her loveliness gone,
and I speak to all the gods,
Jewish gods, Christ-gods,
chips of blinking things,
idols, pills, bread,
fathoms, risks,
knowledgeable surrender,
rats in the gravy of 2 gone quite mad
without a chance,
hummingbird knowledge, hummingbird chance,
I lean upon this,
I lean on all of this
and I know:
her dress upon my arm:
but
they will not
give her back to me.
charles bukowski
Houston we have wood...uhh from the avatar not the blathering Bukowski.
Glad to see someone else awake and asking how this is a coincidence.
+1000 MainStMonkey
People here are very naive about the amount of planning that goes into a PR stunt like this.
Can someone tell me where all these fkg monkeys are coming from.
Actually, most of us realize PR is a two way street.
Bravo MainStMonkey for telling it like it is!
This is one of the main issues that not only could allow the elite to drag the world into war, but will also used to divide western resistance to their attempts to maintain control and it is one of their, as thedailybell says, "dominant social themes" .
I don't really know how we can get beyond this except to say that all of us, irregardless of how we stand on this issue, have to keep the elite from using this to divide and conquer.
My only suggestion is to say that we should just let them duke it out and try to ignore what is happening there, otherwise the elite will end up playing us like a fiddle.
Yawn. Your BS paper-reasoning does nothing to contradict nor counter the huge swell of loathing that is heading toward Israel.
Common sense dictates that this kind of boarding method will excite a "flight or fight" response in untrained civilians. That's why this kind of boarding method is not commonly used for civilian vessels, or any vessels for that matter.
There's about a thousand different ways to a handle a civilian vessel, it's not going anywhere and it can't submerge.
How about requesting inspection? Or how about disabling and towing it to port?
How you decide on dropping a bunch of obviously jittery nimrods trained to kill on the bow of a civilian vessel carrying press and foreign dignitaries is beyond comprehension.
Especially when you see this before you even start boarding:
"A few minutes before the takeover attempt aboard the Marmara got underway, the operation commander was told that 20 people were waiting on the deck"
then why didn't it happen on the other three boats - and just on the one boat with hamas members???
Exactly.
Just repeat the following statement, and you'll always be in line with mainstream meme:
It is NEVER Israel's fault.
Israel's recent problems basically stem from one fact. They are no longer the "little guy" in the region, but this apparently hasn't even begun to sink in. It's like watching Napolean on his worst day every time someone so much as looks at them wrong.
Frankly, I increasingly don't give a shit about Israel or what they do. But I have no choice as long as I'm subsidizing them with my tax money, and my country is offering them blanket protection in the UN.
If they want to be dicks who alienate the rest of the planet, let them come out from under our wing and do it on their own.
I feel like the biggest guy in the bar watching his insecure, asshole buddy start fights every night because he knows I'll back him up.
Re: I feel like the biggest guy in the bar watching his insecure, asshole buddy start fights every night because he knows I'll back him up.
Like, dude, what are friends for, dude?! Let's kick some ass dude! Totally!
Khazars have no more right to that land than Irish catholics. The fact that Lord Balfour gave the Rothchilds' zionist buddies Palestinian land is as much a crime as the creation of Federal Reserve, and Federal income tax, and world policing that followed. None if it is a coincidence.
JHC Bel, you know where spoutin' fac-chew-ul information will get you on this board don't cha? Its just a mob scene, so best to make tracks and let them be played.
It looks like the Magaphone was sounded. They must be pretty busy today. Must be the reason the boat was attacked on Memorial day. Day off from work means more people to man the Magaphone.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Megaphone_desktop_tool
+ 1 @ Chet
I reckon most Americans are still under the impression that Hussein Obama is running the show rather than the likes of Ben Shalom* Banana and Abacus Blankfein..... incidentally the 2 most powerful people in the USA if not the world.
As to the monkeys in here, you will get your war. That preemptive attack shit is working great for the likes of you. Let's attack FFS, just for the fun of it.
* =is a Hebrew and Jewish word meaning peace, Nothing missing, Nothing broken, wellbeing, and complete, and used to mean hello, and goodbye.
What's in a name?
LMAO
...and the bar is running out of booze and the customers are getting antsy
Statism and theocracy leads to endless wars.
Why are these guys fighting so psychotically for a crappy strip of land in the desert?
Jerusalem SUCKS. It's one of the ugliest cities I've ever been to. It's full of hucksters selling worthless tchotchkes. And we have to be constantly kept on the brink of WWIII... for that tourist trap?
Just rebuild the fucking thing in Florida at Epcot Center and be done with it. What the fuck is wrong with these people?
Good points. LOL. Then LOL again.
A New Jerusalem Casino in Las Vegas!
Build it next to The Luxor.
American soldiers deployed in the middle east are all deeply Christian, and ostracize anyone who isn't (according to a few army buddies of mine).
It's the same bullshit battle over the Holy Land that has been occurring for centuries.
Please stop believing propaganda and read the history of Palestine sometime. There has not been a war over this land for centuries.
Wait, are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell.
Belrev, you are either a Russian douchebag or a jihadist douchebag! Let me get this straight. Jews, which represent a total world population of roughly 30 - 40 million people are an evil cabal that contrls everything and everyone else is under their thumb. What does that say about you and me dumbass? That we are automitons that couldn't, up to this point no one has been able to fiight back against the oh so rough and tough Zionists. Get the fuck out of here!
Lets put some other figures out there for you! If you are a Russian comunist cock-sucker, piece of shit like I think you are, then you will proabaly turn away from the fact that your elitist self serving bullshit is responsible for the deaths of well over 100 milliion deaths over the past century.
If you are a jihadist, rag-head, hate filled sand fucker then maybe you should look to whatever hole in the ground country you walked out of to enjoy the freedoms of another (that is here to protect you and earned on the backs of others). It is interesting to me that out of the whole Muslim world, Turkey was the only country with the good sense to separat the religion from the government becuase they knew that assholes like you would wreck the show for them down the road. This is why, after the world wars, Turkey was able to rebuild into a top ten economy with a top 10 military asw well. While all the other coutries are just turning into bigger piles of shit.
The commies hate the Jews becuase they believe in something other than the superiority of the state. The whacko jihadists hate the jews becuase they have small dicks and are eazily hypnotized and brainwashed.
You're a mess, aren't you... Poor dear.
Russian. I'm glad you said that because the bolsheviks weren't Russians. Trotsky and his ethnic cleanzing gangs.
It's common knowledge that persons of Jewish descent run American banks, media, and other top corporations. You can look it up on google instead of spewing bullshit like a dimwit, you know.
Such as you do when you tell me that 'Jewish' is not only a religion but a race?
I already refuted your incorrect thinking in another thread, let's keep it there.
la, la, la, la....not listening....
Many people, both Christians and Jews alike, erroneously believe that, just as one can be black and Christian, just as one can be oriental and Christian, one can also be Jewish and Christian. This misconception has little truth to it.
The Jews are not a race. There is no genetic code passed from either mother or father to the child that makes that child a Jew. Although one cannot convert to become an oriental or a black, one who converts to Judaism becomes a Jew.
When the non-Jewish world makes the claim that one who was Jewish but converts to Christianity can retain the "Jewish culture and ethnicity," one must ask, "which Jewish culture?" And, "which Jewish ethnicity?" The culture and ethnicity of a Jew from Morocco has little in common with the culture and ethnicity of a Jew from Russia. Yet both are Jews because their faith, Judaism, is the same.
And just as many people convert to Judaism, and become Jews, those who convert out of Judaism are no longer Jews.
Your argument proves that Judaism is a religion, but does not disprove that it is also a race. Jews keep things complicated, in order to confuse simple minds such as your own.
Jews are not a race. That's not complicated, it's a very simple fact. Conversions were commonplace in Rome before Christianity was the state religion, and as the diaspora moved north over the black sea more and more people converted to Judaism. It's not a race, it's a religion. Invaders from the east were assimilated too. Simple fact.
I agree that it is a religion. However, Israelis have been successfully converting it into a race, as well; any person who is born of a Jewish woman is automatically considered a Jew, and allowed into Israel with full Jewish rights, regardless of his / her religion. That is my point, but many seem to miss this and simply go on trying to prove that Judaism is a religion, something I already agree with.
There are plenty of Mad Max types who post here who claim they would gladly pepper with lead any zombie, swat team etc. that tried to get into their houses for their gold/canned food/toilet paper. That's ok, but it isn't to defend yourself from being boarded by armed intruders in international waters?
I suspect if the cargo was dangerous there would have been guards armed with more than kitchen knives.
Let's take a poll to find out. Preppers don't have one ideology magically driving them. When things start to get ugly it goes to standing room only.
> cartonero
Uh-huh
There are plenty of Mad Max types who post here who claim they would gladly pepper with lead any zombie, swat team etc. that tried to get into their houses for their gold/canned food/toilet paper. That's ok, but it isn't to defend yourself from being boarded by armed intruders in international waters?
Damn good point! +100
It's awesome how these Israeli threads always break cleanly into the love and hate groups. Nobody takes the middle ground.
And those who are Pro-Israel always tend to be anti-Muslim.
My whole young life it was beaten into me that "the Jews have been universally hated over time and around the world for no good reason." I was young. Didn't know how to question.
Then I got old, met lots of people. Got beaten up a few times by a culture that encourages mistreatment of others. Learned.
Talmud-carrying Jews need to get behind closed doors and opendly consider that they never took the best advice they ever got - "treat others as you wish to be treated."
Israel has been digging it's own grave since before it was formed. It's hard to imagine that there will be any end other than annihilation. The belief that they can continue to treat other people like animals intended for their servitude and exist as a nation indefinitely is akin to a kid believing he can make his face stay in a particular horrid embodiment simply by continuing to do it.
You are right. You definately didnt take a middle ground.
Notes from President Harry S. Truman memoirs.
"The Jews, I find, are very, very selfish. They care not how many Estonians, Latvians, Finns, Poles, Yugoslavs or Greeks get murdered or mistreated as D[isplaced] P[ersons] as long as the Jews get special treatment.
"Yet when they have power, physical, financial or political neither Hitler nor Stalin has anything on them for cruelty or mistreatment to the under dog."
Truman was a well known anti-semite who never liked jews and cared little for them. That's why he's often quoted by stormfront - a nazi/kkk group.
Dunno if it's true or not , but on MSM news earlier it said the commandos were armed with crowd control weapons ( like paint guns). Then a crew member got hold of one and emptied it at the commandos. Then the commandos pulled the real guns and started shooting. Now if true, Why would they shoot if they knew it was only pepper gas or whatever?
You've obviously never had to wash paint ball goo out of your kevlar.
Amazing! Israel launches multiple boarding parties made up of elite commandos onto ships travelling peacefully in international waters. Result: ~19 people on on board the ships killed, 0 boarding party killed.
Then - Israel says "it's not our fault - they made us do it!" (aah, diddums)
As an ex-10 year commando I can tell you, if the people on the ships had weapons, you would have seen some dead IDF guys. You are very vulnerable absailing onto decks like that.
Having looked at videos provided by both 'sides', my professional opinion is that the Israeli story is 'bollocks'.
Yes they should just stand there and get their heads bashed in with metal pipes and the rest...
They should have never boarded the ship in that manner to begin with. Many of the rights that you think get in the way of getting shit done have their basis in common sense and historical precedent.
For instance, I will never go up to a bear in the woods and attempt to earfuck it, because my uncle died that way.
You just made me laugh for the first time this morning.
Thanks.
I am Chumbawamba.
LMAO
so that was YOUR uncle
+100
Thanks for sharing. How many times have we seen senseless attacks when waiting a little longer for a more opportune moment (such as when aid volunteers are offloading the actual "aid" at port) could have saved many lives.
Instead of luring David Koresh out they burned the place down. Same thing here. Over-aggression = innocent loss of life.
Israel fucked up big time on this one.
Here the truth about the free gaza boat incident:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IHb8VeV46M
The protestors chanted: Intifada, intifada, here comes the Soldiers of Muhammad.
http://www.memritv.org/clip/en/2489.htm
Pro good people, hate bad people. Religion is not important, only the person...
Oh, yeah, MEMRI. Now THERE'S an unbiased, solidly journalistic source (which happens to be run by ex-Mossad members).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Middle_East_Media_Research_Institute
I am Chumbawamba.
Chumba, did you ever see an ex-dwarf? Ex-Mossad operatives are just as elusive: there's no such a thing.
chumba baby, you must just be plain old worn out after today.
tuckered out those fat fingers, yet†
it got pretty brutal in here today.
It appears that the error in planning the operation was the estimate that passengers were indeed political activists and members of humanitarian groups who seek a political provocation, but would not resort to brutal violence. The soldiers thought they will encounter Bilin-style violence; instead, they got Bangkok.
so here, they admitted it: their plan was to storm with a military SWAT team a ship with unarmed peace activists.
they got their hands clobbed when they were boarding the ship - makes my heart brake.
And the muslims on the 'peaceboat' weren't peacefully, they got weapons to kill the soldiers. Knifes, metal bats and pistols...
Go seek video's on youtube, you sick morons...
And the muslims on the 'peaceboat' weren't peacefully, they got weapons to kill the soldiers. Knifes, metal bats and pistols.
Did you just finish watching your daily allotment of FAUX News? Muslims? Holy shit. Dude, do yourself a favour and research the number of ships in the flotilla, the number of nations taking part and the nationalities of all those on those ships. You'll find that your buried hatred for Muslims will not be satisfied.
Knifes, metal bats and pistols...
None were armed with guns. The Israeli soldiers were the ones who were armed and who attacked and boarded a boat in international waters, which is an act of war. Especially when the ship in question was flying a Turkish flag, that is a signatory member of NATO. Israel also hijacked and seized a US flagged boat as well.
What the hell would you do if, at 4 in the morning, armed men in helicopters were storming your ship in international waters despite your efforts at flying a white flag? I'd bet that you'd be fighting like hell for fear of your life thinking that you're about to be hijacked, if not killed. 19 were!
And the US presidents' silence is deafening as all hell.
Well, the neighborhood bully, he's just one man
His enemies say he's on their land
They got him outnumbered about a million to one
He got no place to escape to, no place to run
He's the neighborhood bully.
The neighborhood bully he just lives to survive
He's criticized and condemned for being alive
He's not supposed to fight back, he's supposed to have thick skin
He's supposed to lay down and die when his door is kicked in
He's the neighborhood bully.
The neighborhood bully been driven out of every land
He's wandered the earth an exiled man
Seen his family scattered, his people hounded and torn
He's always on trial for just being born
He's the neighborhood bully.
Well, he knocked out a lynch mob, he was criticized
Old women condemned him, said he could apologize
Then he destroyed a bomb factory, nobody was glad
The bombs were meant for him. He was supposed to feel bad
He's the neighborhood bully.
Well, the chances are against it, and the odds are slim
That he'll live by the rules that the world makes for him
'Cause there's a noose at his neck and a gun at his back
And a licence to kill him is given out to every maniac
He's the neighborhood bully.
Well, he got no allies to really speak of
What he gets he must pay for, he don't get it out of love
He buys obsolete weapons and he won't be denied
But no one sends flesh and blood to fight by his side
He's the neighborhood bully.
Well, he's surrounded by pacifists who all want peace
They pray for it nightly that the bloodshed must cease
Now, they wouldn't hurt a fly. To hurt one they would weep
They lay and they wait for this bully to fall asleep
He's the neighborhood bully.
Every empire that's enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He's made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one's command
He's the neighborhood bully.
Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract that he signed was worth that what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health
He's the neighborhood bully.
What's anybody indebted to him for ?
Nothing, they say. He just likes to cause war
Pride and prejudice and superstition indeed
They wait for this bully like a dog waits to feed
He's the neighborhood bully.
What has he done to wear so many scars ?
Does he change the course of rivers ? Does he pollute the moon and stars ?
Neighborhood bully, standing on the hill
Running out the clock, time standing still
Neighborhood bully.
More video's:
http://www.youtube.com/user/hetvrijevolkcom#p/f/0/buzOWKxN2co
http://palwatch.org/main.aspx?fi=157&doc_id=2323
http://www.jihadwatch.org/2010/05/gaza-jihad-flotilla-participants-chant...
Good thing they stopped that chant from being completed. That's the one that summons Bahamut to cast Megaflare on Tel Aviv.
Tyler, your headline is pro-Israel spin....it saddens me to learn that you've drank the Zionist Koolaid too like all the other lemmings.
I value this website as an oasis of objective truth seeking so we can all get rich by correctly predicting where these markets are going. I am dissappointed to see the absence of objectivity regarding Palestine.
So the spin is not beginning?
I could not believe that TD could publish this ridiculous and pathetic version of the story without “commenting” on it. What really stunned me is that some ZH readers believe it!!!
He's attempting to remain neutral on a deeply controversial subject.
Controversial? are you serious? Which part?
Its simple: Civilian ship in international waters boarded by "kind, bubbly, and sweet" commandoes. They "commandoes" were expecting the "ready, trained, and brutal" civilians to throw a party welcoming their arrival.
The “we don’t fear commandoes, military helicopters, and warships” civilians attacked the “poor, surprised, and caught off guard” commandoes with all types of “military grade” clubs and “Very sharp streak” knives.
Commandoes tried to defend them selves with “verbal convincing” as they were trained in their “therapeutic conversation classes”.
When one of the commandoes saw the ”tip of a riffle” sticking out of the ass of one of the civilians, the order was given to go back to real life and be Israeli commandoes again and spray everyone with “tear bullets” to defend themselves.
GET REAL
"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." - Aristotle.
If this issue weren't controversial, do you really think there would be so many junkings and namecalling?
Try looking at both sides, or risk looking like an uneducated dimwit in the future.
People who want to be perceived “educated” look at both sides and continue to do so.
“Wise” people look at both sides and then figure out the right from wrong.
I would love to be a wise man. Please do look at both sides but come up to some conclusions
"
Conclusions? Right and wrong don't mean shit. This was an act of war, and in war, only power and strength matter.
I conclude that Israel will continue to destroy whoever and whatever it likes, because they possess military supremacy.
Babbling about morality is pointless. Think about what will happen, not what should happen.
You are right on your conclusion 100%. Isreal does what it wants, whenever it wants, to whom ever it wants.
Back to you first point, what is controversial about this incident? TD is trying to be “neutral”?
Come on. I was expecting this title “Zero Hedge Video Analysis Reveals Paintball Guns, Secret Turkish Weapon”Wake up
Since our country is blowing up wedding parties with drones and nobody in harms way in foreign countries I can't really yell at Israel for putting troops in danger, boarding the ships, and sustaining looses. If you compare it would be like them just sinking them using a camera and not boarding. so since we behave in a worse way.....
Hate to interrupt your hypoberle, not that facts are important to you, but we're not blowing up 'wedding parties with drones'.
Even on Memorial Day.
That's rather pathetic.
+100 It is indeed "pathetic":
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/jul/11/afghanistan.usa
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/asia/article5092346.ece
Real followers of the teaching of the phrophet become martyrs.
If you are follower and have not the courage for martyrdom, then you are not a true muslim.
Looking inside yourself and ask " do I have the character to be a real muslim". If you are not willing today to die for your faith you are a poser.
Go my friends and find your true calling.
I pray to g-d that every muslim makes it to paradise within the next 24 hours.
What pathetic spin from the Israeli and Zionist dominated media, poor IDF soldiers being ambushed in INTERNATIONAL WATERS... oh won't someone think of the humanity.
Wasn't it full of Al-Qaeda members though? I've heard that one already been spun by Zionist sources a few times now. It was all a Hamas publicity stunt (with the aid of International politicians and most of the worlds support...)
Israel went too far, simple as that. Not the first time, won't be the last.
What apt punishment should it receive? Military sanctions - almost certainly, economic sanctions - absolutely, Paying for damages - yes, possible military retaliation - maybe, maybe not, BUT IN THE END IT WILL WALK AWAY COMPLETELY FREE, BECAUSE OF THE TOTAL DOMINATION OF US POLITICS AND MILITARY SPHERES BY ZIONIST GROUPS, who will at every turn make sure that their proxy agent the United States uses its Veto power to stop any justice from being enacted.
Don't worry though I'm sure Mossad has a few False Flag operations planned to divert away all attention on Israel in the coming weeks. Stay tuned boys and girls there's a Soccer World Cup just a few weeks away, couldn't have come any sooner for Israel.
This is a failure of the UN.
Why is it not possible for the UN to have regular shipments of food, medicine and construction materials delivered from Greece or Turkey directly to Gaza?
The UN can check that there are no weapons and provide the staff to secure and man the ship.
They don’t want to.
It is a failure of the UN.
I blame the parents.
The victors of WWII?
No, not the Swiss, your mom and dad. The UN? What about NATO? This ship left a Turkish port having been inspected by Turkish customs, and flew the flag of Turkey. Turkey is a member of NATO, and the treaty the US signed with NATO is the supreme law of the land here and in every NATO member state. so, UN nothing. If Israel can't keep it's mitts off a NATO member vessel, WTF is the UN going to do? I predict unanimous NATO condemnation.
“No, not the Swiss, your mom and dad.”
J
Yes. I see. NATO does have a bit of a problem.
The flotilla was however not on a NATO exercise.
I am still of the opinion that the UN has a role.
If it chooses not to exercise its authority it will lose it.
No treaty that I know of gives the UN unilateral authority over this matter.
The US has been ramming NATO down Turkey's throat over the Iran matter. Now the velvet glove is on the other hammer.
But, then again, the US never intended to personally invade Iran anyway. An increasingly isolated and paranoid Israel will do it for them and a unified NATO (US) will move in to pick up the pieces and broker the peace.
“No treaty that I know of gives the UN unilateral authority over this matter.”
I think that is my point. It is not a matter of Treaty it is a matter of Human Rights.
The UN claims moral authority on international human rights (yes, one could argue whether they posses that authority or not).
However. I suppose I’m not making myself clear.
Perhaps a better way of putting this is to say that the UN’s claim to moral authority is now under the scrutiny of action.
As the saying goes. Shit or get off the pot.
I personally think that NATO involvement would be an error for NATO. They are engaged in Afghanistan. Loosing Greek/Turkish support would be a mistake. NATO should keep its powder dry.
Your analysis of the Iran matter is highly probable.
My own view on that is that an attack on Iran would split NATO and possibly act as a precursor to WWIII.
Not happy days.
We can of course agree to differ.
We still have that luxury.
Eh, moral authority... The Vatican claims moral authority, too. But we don't let them waltz in and sniff the dicks of military recruits for signs of homosexual activity.
NATO will not split. Israel is a nice girl and all but NATO and the US have history together. MY guess is that someone, I'm not naming names here but it's someone you and I both know, SOMEONE will be going stag to the prom this summer.
I agree that the Vatican has no moral authority. I’m not sure they ever did. There’s is more a political authority. It is just that I see this as an existential crisis for the UN just as the PIIGS are an existential crisis for the EU. If the UN has no role in this (moral or otherwise) what purpose does it serve?
I hope you are right about NATO not getting sucked into this and that they remain intact.
If “someone” goes stag to the prom we are in a world of shit.
They do, every day.
“Gaza is facing a humanitarian disaster, the spokesman for UN Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees (UNRWA) Adnan Abu Hasna told the German Press Agency dpa on Saturday, as a fleet of boats carrying 10,000 tons of aid for the Strip prepared to set sail from Cyprus.
Israel has imposed a siege for almost three years now. It’s true that it allows humanitarian aid through, but it doesn’t allow spare parts and equipment to fix damaged machines at factories and farms,” Mr. Hasna continued.”
They are selective in what they allow through.
Spare parts and equipment for factories and farms?
Solarman
Apologies.
Source. http://beta.thehindu.com/news/international/article441482.ece
You have an entity that wishes to kill Israeli's. These boats carried inknown supplies to this entity, the activists threw a person off a deck. If you hit me with a pole and threw someone over a railing and I have a gun, you are dead.
Quite frankly Chumba, your anti Israeli railings are quite one sided. I here no outrage for the Armenians and Kurds totally massacred by the Turks. If this was a flotilla to save Kurdastan, what do you think the Turks would have done. That is right sunk it.
If you invade a ship in international waters, suited with armor and helmets and guns and kill 20+ people armed with slingshots and bats, that is considered a terrorist act.
If you think such a slaughter is justified, you are a physcopathic neo-con.
Actually, it's an act of war. "Justified" or not means little during war, only power matters, which Israel possesses in spades. What many anti Israelis fail to recognize is the fact that Israel will continue to run around and dominate shit, despite how angry those supposed anti semites become.
Israel as a nation is toast. As the US declines it will pull the plug on the billions that it doles out to its surrogate terrorist state.
Thanks for playing!
Because the most powerful military industrial complex in the history of mankind will give up the mantle of #1 superpower peacefully, right?
Israel is not toast, at least not yet. Don't jump to conclusions.
every blockade in history has occurred in 'international waters' - this is just hamas/liberal propaganda that is meaningless.
And the soilders went on peacefully, didn't fire until violently attacked as shown in the films. Hell, if they wanted to kill them all, then Israel has some piss poor shooting commandos....
I thought they were restrained as hell - one was being beat with a pipe and trying to get away - not shooting - b/c he didn't have permission. I'da shot anyway.
Remember the U.S.S. Liberty!
Israel is finished as a nation state.
Thanks for playing!
Looking at all the related videos, one of them shows a soldier taking a warhead or some type(looked like some kind of mortar round to me but I am no expert on military rounds), and he holds it up for the camera to see. If this was entirely an aid ship, then why are these on the boat? If you need firepower, bring an escort ship from UN if you are afraid of being attacked. Something smells fishy to me, and it may very well be Israel had been monitoring these shipments for some time and got a tip they were loaded with weapons hidden in the rice.
And no one has ever planted incriminating evidence?
Further, I heard that Israel is responsible for the 9/11 attacks.
At this point if I were advising, I would suggest that Palestine declare itself a soverign state that includes all the territory other than what Isreal had in 1948. Then get as many countries to recognize them immediately. Since Isreal started the 1967 War, they have NO right to Jerusalem and it should be the new Capitol of Palestine.
Besides murdering, torturing and raping small palestinian children in Gaza, and the West Bank...who are the true relatives of Jesus, Isreal should stop stealing the natural gas resources off the cost of Gaza, as this is rightfully belongs to Palestine and should be used for their development.
Of course the siege should be broken by whatever means.
I'm 1/8 Jesus on my Mother's side.
"It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.'
Cudgels and sling shots constitutes "well prepared for a fight?" Talk about spin. Also not a word about the ship being in international waters. Boarding a ship in international waters where the passengers only have cudgels and slingshots constitutes piracy and most likely kidnapping. This whole thing is outrageous and ony makes sense if like most Americans you believe we and out vassal states own the world and can do what we want when we want international law be damned.
The first thing Israel should do is keep their ambassadors off the MSM. They have no credibility whatsoever and only make Israel appear more deceitful. They never do anything wrong and that is their failure, never doing anything wrong (not even when their leaders rape their women or they bomb ally ships). I don’t so much hate Israel for the terrible things they do but because they believe they're so perfect. You are not perfect Israel and that is your downfall. Just as God has punished your people exclusively in the past, he will punish them once again. WHEN WILL YOU LEARN?
WTF am I reading?
You’re reading that Israel is an Evil Demonist Nation and that is what they portray themselves as when they speak on the MSM. We (The Entire World) HATE YOU MORE WHEN YOU SPEAK TO US!
Disclaimer: This is not about Jewish or Muslim people but a Terrorist Nation called Israel.
@ crummy
I don't know, but let me try to help you.
It has the appearance of some "devine intervention" kinda crap written all over it.
LMAO
They could have disabled the ship and towed it to port.
No?
So most of you are saying that the main error of Israel was that the ship was at international waters at the time of the boarding?
What if this happened 2 hours later just before going into Gaza? The rioters were asking for trouble IMO. You don't attack a dozen of commandos with slingshots and crawbars.
Israel of course did wrong but the ship crew did wrong as well.
The main error is not understanding that starving people, taking their homes, and refusing them aid is committing a crime The Goyem of the world will not tolerate.
The irony is that the State of Israel came it to being using similar tactics. The journey of the "Exodus" in 1947, carrying Holocaust survivors to the then British controlled Palestine was one of the things that stirred the world's conscience, and led inexorably to the acceptance by the international community of the State of Israel.
Israelis, of all people, should be capable of empaphising with the plight of desperate peoples.
This article says it all http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/analysis-israel-has-forgot...
From reading all these comments, I just realized that you'l need a good advice.
Don't be racists or discriminate. Hate everyone equally.
"It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.It appeared the activists were well prepared for a fight.'
If that were true they'da had a Strella 7 to fire at that helicopter. I wonder if those two Israeli patrol boats were some of the same ones that fired at the survivors of the U.S. Navy ship 'Liberty' in 1967?
And we fund these terrorists with three billion bucks a year.
I don't there is a peace train. I think there's a justification for violence crazy train but no peace train. Public opinion is the ultimate kangaroo court and the military and the politcians and the rich know it.
Bring out the liars and the stupid witnesses and the false witnesses and the experts and contradiction.
Provocateurs got what they deserved. Rules should be followed - you want to help Gaza? Do it within existing framework.
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=get+what+they+deserve&aq=f
Pick a video any video. Everyone is getting what they deserved.
Blockades are great. You get to have a monopoly on black market goods. The entire world will be a string of blockades with only a few corporations able to get through the blockades and supply the world. It's just a matter of positioning the forces to blockade everybody. The economic model is being worked out in prison drugs right now.
Exactly, when international law is violated the rest of the world should declare war on that nation.
Flag as junk if you think Israel should be wiped of the map.
When international law is broken it should be vetted in an international court. Sadly, the jury is usually comprised of the powerful, controlling states that are responsible for breaking many of the international laws: wolves guarding the sheep.
Let me lay down you maslows hiearchy of need fixed.
Reason turns to righteousness.
Righteouness get's proven wrong.
So it turns to sanctimony.
We are all lead by sanctimonious assholes.
The chief seats are no place of rest for the reasonable. Only the most sanctimonious asshole can sit in them.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07_1dR0TRIo
Sanctimony needs confused stupid people. Which is why everybody has to get involved. Their death and sacrifice give power to the sanctimony.
The truth is not in the light. It's in the knowing darkness. The purification process of the light is not towards truth but only towards a greater sanctimony.
God wants you to have your righteousness but only as long as it doesn't interfere with his more powerful sanctimony.
Worldwide protests over Israeli raid
People of the U.S. and the World Must End Israeli Impunity Now!
Israeli Raid Triggers Worldwide Outcry
Israeli attack on Gaza aid flotilla outrages world
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1282802/Israeli-forces-kill-19-people-carrying-aid-ship-Gaza.html
Israeli commandos kill 19 in attack on flotilla trying to break Gaza blockade
Claim and counterclaim after deadly flotilla raid
Australians on aid flotilla are safe
US-Israel links at risk over deadly aid convoy attack
Israel condemned as anger grows over flotilla raid
Fury follows deadly attack
Threads on Israeli atrocities inevitably bring out the sophomoric Tay-Sachs children from Megaphone-Yeshiva.
Kavaron, "the main error" is that Zionists invaded Palestine circa 1919, took land by force and have been killing Palestinians ever since to secure their "homeland". This was and is immoral and wrong. That is the main error-killing people for land and then lying about it for almost a century now.
The passengers on this ship were both courageous, and passionate in their beliefs. Their deaths may ultimately save untold thousands, if not avert an outright war. Heroes, all of them.
I again applaud Zerohedge for daring to give its readers another perspective and side to a highly charged political story.
Zerohedge dares to gives boths sides of a story and let it's readers make up their own minds. It seems we would rather just get given our opinions from the media.
Zerhedge, a rare precious coin at a central bank convention
Assaulting a non-military vessel in time of peace in international waters is, by definition, an act of piracy.
Inlight of this:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the_press_office/Statement-by-the-President-on...
it'll be interesting to watch how the White House will react.
White House will react.
may be the house will turn red
Youtube footage of peaceful humanitarians LINKY
And their metal bars of peace-love.
Come on, bro. Israel has a right to exist and all, but I'm getting real fucking tired (and a little drunk) of the apologists for the level of abject stupidity displayed in this incident.
It's not like they invited them on for tea and turned on them, they were attempting to board a civilian ship flying a NATO member flag with over 200 people on board in international waters. They're lucky it was stocked with peace activists, and was manned by a passive crew, who are allowed to be fully armed on the open sea, otherwise they would have been annihilated.
Metal bars of peace and love... I got yer metal bars of peace and love, pal.
I wonder who writes the stuff at ynetnews? Maybe Greenspan, Rubin, Levitt, Summers, Geither, Gensler and the other boys????
Hard to figure out how the Israelis could have hair triggers when they are surrounded by muslims with such advanced morals and fine culture. Why you would think the lovely people of islam had sworn to destroy Israel or something...
It is indeed frightening when the entire world hates you. I wonder what they’ll do? I shouldn’t ask, they’ll probably ignite the entire world in flames. The entire world is terrorists in their eyes. If only Israel would look in the mirror, we won't hurt them, they are their own worst enemy -YES ISRAEL, DESTROYING THE WORLD WOULD BE DESTROYING YOURSELF!
Sh!t, now I'm scared. Hair trigger sckitzo's at the helm!!!
and no... destroying the entire planet because a family of Israelis die is NOT justified. Speak to your lord before making such decisions.
I respect your observations. Israel does seem to suffer from moral certitude. And they would do well to look to their Lord. However the really scary thing to me is that the muslims have looked to their "lord" and the message is kill, kill, kill.
Actually, the Muslim message to the West is, "stay the fuck out of our backyards and business!" It's called sovereignty or something.
I'm pretty sure the West is not interested in the Satanic messages of islam. But it is said ignorance is bliss so I am guessing you are one happy fellow...
Hey? Where is Obummer in all of this since there was a US flagged boat in that flotilla, that was boarded and seized by Israel in international waters, which is also an act of war? Not a peep. Where's Roosevelt or Truman? Dig them up and re-animate them. Obummer has got to grow a solid brass pair.
I really do not give a damn about the middle east anymore. They have have been fighting before the US existed and they will continue fighting until the end of time. Just let them destroy each other. Just lets them destroy each other for all I care. We have men who died in Iraq and Afghanistan for no reason! We have a southern border that is wide open from illegal immigrants and heavily armed drug cartel. I do not give a shit about Israel nor Iran,nor Turkey. We have have bigger problems to worry about. The sovereign debt crisis that is going to descend the world into chaos.
I hate that whenever there is an israeli story post on ZH both sides write the most poisionous,divisive comments I have ever seen. I hope and pray that there will be an Israeli and Palestianian state that lives side by side. But that will never happen because both sides wants a threat to create war and misery for the innocent Palestinian and Israeli.
WAR will continue at that region and we need to stop spouting hatred and division to each other and focus that anger towards the banksters and governments that are bankrupting us and giving us a world like Somalia or the Balkans.
Hey I agree. Let them fight it out if they cant kiss and make up. But theres one problem: oil. 40% of the worlds oil supply comes from the Middle-East, and we dont yet have fusion reactors and stuff, so that's a problem.
I was raised pro Israel and anti Palestian, but after spending some time in the country and reading history from many perspectives, I've come to see Israel's government as a force for evil. (Love the culture, the economy, and the people there, it goes without saying.) Not only is there an historic injustic, but perpetual atrocities, which are recognized around the world but not in the US.
This undermines our credibility. It gives street thugs in the Arab world a legitimate complaint and "cause" for all of their problems (Israel and the US).
America's blind devotion to, and largess for, this this political regime is beyond me. Obama has shifted in the proper direction, but not far enough.
The spin is out of control on both sides, however. Always is on this issue. The hate is personal, except neither side really sees the other *as* people*.
This conflict will never end in simply peace. It will continue until one or the other has expended so much blood killing one another they finally come to a mutual agreement decades from now. This region has been source of so much anger, hatred and it has exported it to numerous nations. We are all permitted to defend ourselves yet it cannot be forgotten that the Palestinians were removed from their land which they had been in possession of for over 1000 years.
The Jews were also forced out of their land by the Romans & the Assyrians however the region is not exactly flush with resources and there was a large world so many left seeking better lives. It is the nature of things and people migrate. This does not give the Israelis the permission to exact age old retribution and seize land. It must be understood that if you commit to such actions be prepared for war in the event you cannot compromise. It is the nature of humanity to either assimilate or take. Who is innocent? None are innocent however a child killed who's only sin is her ancestral tie to a race of people who centuries ago forced someone to leave their land certainly is innocent.
If these groups of people want to battle it out over land they believe they have claim to that is acceptable in my opinion however Israel must take responsibility for their own decision. They now have possession and if they wish to wage war to keep be it but relying on the United States to aid them is detrimental to us and our foreign policy, economy and detrimental from the end result of either destruction or peace.
+10000000000000000000000000000000000000
If they both have claim to that land and are eager to fight over it then let them do it but will not referee nor get involved. We are near bankruptcy because of this and a numbe rof things.
Best Post so far Bravo!!!!
I think your post is well written but naive. I wish the U.S. backed Israel because it is the morally right thing to do. I actually think we partially back Israel as just one piece of our very complicated interests in the Mid-East. The U.S. can’t afford an Islamic based regional super power as it would cost us access to oil and present a well financed enemy dedicated to the destruction of the West. But we can’t simply instill our military will on the region as Russia, and more importantly China has strategic interests in the region as well. So we support ongoing conflict in the region while we aspire to strike a deal with China long-term. The result is we are only another destabilizing influence in the Mid-East. As far as I am concerned, Israel holds the not very high moral high ground in the region. The reality check on this is to imagine what would happen if the muslims had the military advantage and the nuclear arsenal.
That is the whole purpose of military intervention as it is not to win. The victory is established through the destablization process and example is Vietnam a war in which we supposedly "lost". I am not naive whatsoever when it comes to our prescence in the Arab nations and the purpose of our prescence. I simply do not agree with it.
Also you make allusion to "The rise of an Islamic Superpower". Well why is it unacceptable for an Arab nation to attempt to impose their beliefs upon those they wish to conquer? How has this differed from Genghis Khan or the Roman Empire? It should be understood that humanity and civilization were very much in their infantile stage at this ppoint and communication was usually down with a sword and horse and opposed to an email and telephone like today.
When in history has an Arab Empire been any different than Crusaders attempting to reclaim the land they believe is their birthright? I see no difference. I also cannot see an Arab superpower emerging with the sole purpose and intent of using force to impart their religious beliefs on an entire globe. You confuse the extremists of Islam with the religion of Islam. Furthermore as humanity advances and gloablizes at an exponential rate it is a near impossibility.
I do however believe that if an Islamic superpower were to emerge in the future their sole catalyst of aggression towards the U.S. will be our presence in their region and meddling in their own affairs centuries old affairs with Israel. What I am trying to say is we are creating the exact Frankenstein you are concerned with in regards to future blowback. Religion will be a forgotten myth 2,000 years from now and realized for what it always has been..An early form of control and maintaining civility at a time with minimal answers and policing capabilities.
Before you paint me an atheist I should also state that I believe in God. I do not wish to label what ever has created this complex and beautiful universe and believe we are not meant to understand it just yet because to grow as living beings we need to seek what is next.
I think "naive" was a poor choice of words. I also think our primary disagreement boils down to the intent of the islamic "religion." I have listened to both side of the argument and come away believing the islamic "religion" is properly interpreted by islamic terrorists. Since I believe that I obvioulsy view a super-power based on the teachings of islam as untenable to the United States. But I respect your opinions and did not mean to offend. I strive to disagree with respect, often without success.
"Earth to Bobby..." There's two ways to skin a politician:
Shah of Iran
Saddam Hussein
Check your history, my man.
Anyone who ever questions the reach and power of the U.S. and the empire we have created I look to Saddam Hussein as the finest example.
We invaded the country. Removed him from power. Instilled our military. We are able to convince allies to assist us. Created an Iraqi government from scratch. Tried Hussein in the new government we created. Found him guilty and had him publicly executed.
WTF?