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Bush Tax Cut Extension: DOA?
After watching the total pandemonium and maelstrom of lies out of Europe today, some may have forgotten that our own rulers are among some of the most incompetent, corrupt, and stupid people on earth. Luckily, here is Dick Durbin to remind us that nothing compares quite to the chaos emanating from D.C. - it appears the extension of the Bush tax cuts which until early this week was taken for granted, until yesterday when Moody's implied a permanent extension of such cuts would lead to a rating cut, may have been all but killed after preliminary discussions between Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, and Mitch McConnell, the chamber’s top Republican, “did not go well.” Bloomberg reports that not only is the Senate's #2 Democrat "not very optimistic" about the option of extensions, but nobody even has a clue what is going on: "I don’t even know what the options are at this moment,” said Washington Senator Maria Cantwell, a Democrat who serves on the tax-writing Finance Committee." Tangentially, the question of how this economy continues to chug along courtesy of central planning by an administration and a monetary institution, both of which are beyond clueless, will some day be the topic of extended Ph.D. papers (of course, by then having a Ph.D. will be perceived as the vilest form of socio-educational stigmata).
More on the total confusion in D.C., and why all those betting on a 2% pick in 2011 GDP due to continuation of this last stimulus, may have to reevaluate:
President Barack Obama has invited congressional leaders to the White House on Nov. 18 to discuss alternatives. Obama and most Democrats want to extend lower tax rates on only the first $200,000 of income for individuals and $250,000 for married couples filing jointly. Congressional Republicans say they want tax cuts to be extended for all Americans, including those with higher incomes.
Senate Finance Committee Chairman Max Baucus, a Democrat, said he’s “optimistic” that Congress will resolve its differences “because it is the right thing to do.”
‘Kajillion Ideas’
Baucus said he didn’t know exactly how an agreement would be reached. “There are a kajillion ideas floating around,” he said.
Michigan Representative David Camp told a meeting of business tax lobbyists today that members of his party would fight efforts to extend tax breaks for middle-income households for a longer period than for richer Americans.
Such a proposal, advanced by some Democrats, “is a terrible idea and a total non-starter,” Camp, who is in line to chair the House Ways and Means Committee next year, told the Tax Council.
Unless Congress acts, marginal income tax rates will rise across the board, tax credits that benefit families will be slashed, and rates on capital gains and dividends will increase. A federal tax on estates worth more than $1 million also will be resurrected after expiring for 2010.
Not to mention capital gains tax associated selling. Don't forget the selling...
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The ratings agency dare not lower the US rating below AAA. The US attorney could charge hundreds of them with fraud and hit them with the Rico act. Nothing like a long prison sentence and seizure of your ill gotten gain to incentivise them.
How the hell can anyone seriously argue that they government should be allowed to steal a single dime from any living person?? Not only is it immoral, it's exactly how we end up with an obtrusive, overbearing, violent system that is destined to go nuclear.
Those who know how to feed off the blood being sucked from the population by the parasitical "government" must be laughing their asses off at those of us screaming at each other about who should get ripped off less and who should get ripped off more. It's a massive joke and the bottom 99% are the butt.
Im not sure where you live but taxes at $250k have different meaning. $250k for a family in NYC is not the same as my small town in texas. $250k is rich here, NYC you're able to live I'd imagine but so am I with my meager $34k a year here. A house is around $100k and that seems expensive to me but the cost of that house in a city is unfathomable.
taxfoundation.org has the income tables which break down the percentiles.
250k is top 2% of income. It's a lot MORE money than the VAST MAJORITY of people earn. It is objectively rich.
Is it Bill Gates money? Of course not. But the fact that there is someone out there making $1 more than you does not make you not rich whether or not you like how that sounds.
People have a self-delusion about what being rich is like.
Rich is having more currency coming in than is going out -- sound delusional to you? All these soon-to-be-retired boomers, have they saved anything for their retirement or are they "relying" on Social Security to keep them out of the cat food aisle? A crapton of Dreams will come due, much to the dismay of the Progressive/Socialist/Liberal/Decepticrats out there! Mother Nature (or is it Kali?) is not gonna take a check or credit card: "REAL" money or your life -- next! :(
I wish I could believe that stupidity or cluelessness was the cause of the actions of Congress, the Fed and the President. I believe the truth is that like wild horse that no one can break by the normal means, America is about to be subjected to a financial "shock and awe" tsunami that is designed to force us down to the prosperity level of rest of the world. We just happen to be the last obstacle to Evil's dearest desire; global central government. They are about to try to burning our house to the ground to force us under the global yoke. So, it is actually much worse than just being incompetent, we have been infiltrated and we are being taken apart from the inside. Time to wake up your friends and neighbors...
Not likely that I'll alert my "friends" and neighbors that I am prepared and they are not. Hell, there is some "family" that I'd hide from in a pinch.
You know, we conservatives got rolled. Do not underestimate Obama. Let me say again. This guy, from Chicago, is used to playing for all the marbles, and he is used to playing tough. Repubs thought they might have some leverage with the $250 K plus tax rates, but we forgot that Moody's has a lot of dirty laundry, and a quick discussion has now suggested that Moody's will lower our credit rating if Obama goes along with the Repubs. So Obama says he would be willing to compromise but the credit rating agency now makes that impossible.
He is very clever. We did not even see it coming. Don't worry, they are going to pass the DREAM bill, and cap-n-trade before Christmas. Republicans can bask in their own success. Obama never sleeps.
Ironically Moody's had no position concerning USA credit rating when the Obama and the dems jammed an outrageously expensive healthcare bill on to the people. 30 million more covered. Moody's doesn't think that has any affect on deficits, but not raising taxes is what drove us over the cliff. Uhmm what's wrong with this picture.
Everything. Same as always.
Gee, maybe that's because the tax-cut extension would cost 10X what the healthcare bill will over the same timeframe.
It's called mathematics.
You left the CBO out of the equation. If they say it's okay, it's okay ratings-wise.
is obama clever in all 57 states?
I am really beginning to wonder if the USA is starting to turn
into some kind of totalitarian social welfare state.
All I ever hear is people asking for more Stimulus, Rate-Cuts,Tax cuts
and all sort of free hand-outs.It is really starting to piss me off.
Obviously most people never had to run their own business or their own Lives
and just are used and addicted to getting these free rides till they Die.
But there is a big Change coming for everyone and this is it:
No more sitting on your fat Arse and getting a free Ride !
Its time for People to wake up and face Reality !
You are responsible for your own Life and Death,your own Welfare.
Don't ask for free Handouts or wonder for what other People can do for you,
or what a younger Generation could do for you,
because they we all have our own Life to worry about !
So Start Saving for your own Retirement now and take Responsibility now
for your own Obligations to earn your own Rewards, take the wheel and start taking control of your Life. Start with your financial affairs, make a budget,control your own spending based on your own income.
Start it now, because the free Ride is Over.
No More Free Rides !
Well, you're a bit late to the game! In a story I wrote in 1968, the USA changes its name to USSA in 2026. Clearly I was optimistic, since the USA became the USSA decades before 2026. But my point is, the trend was already very obvious in the 1960s (to an 8 year old, no less). And observant older folks also noticed, decades before me.
The time is long past for humans to "live without a net". Or to say it another way, adult humans should do without the vile, viscious, predatory pseudo-parent called "government" (all levels).
That so many people jerk back at such a thought is incredibly sad. Do they remember what the humans who moved to america from europe and elsewhere in the 1500s, 1600s, 1700s faced? No electricity, no motors, no heaters (beyond wood fires), no AC, a few crude tools, largely no clue what they would face... and no freaking government to "protect them" (what a joke!!!).
Today, with all the modern technology we have, with a complete rail, road and air travel system in place, computerized machine tools, and so forth... what legitimate need does any human have for government?
answer: NONE.
In fact, government has become (as if it wasn't always) the home of the most vile, crafty, diabolical predatory destroyers. The cretins in government are only protectors in propaganda --- just the opposite in reality.
Hey. I personally do not fear humans... except those who work for government. Those who have been PAID to believe they have some legitimate right to lie, cheat, steal, abuse, enslave, require, prohibit and generally destroy everyone.
End government. All government.
Not only do humans not need government, they cannot live with it much longer. Indeed, to survive, humans would need to de-evolve into sub-human creatures. And indeed a great many have paid the predators to de-evolve them via public education and mainstream media schemes.
End government.
Most of the modern advancements you mentioned were the result of government support of nascent industries (air travel, CAM tools, etc); your ignorance is astounding.
If we buy you a ticket to Somalia, will you go?
In Somalia, you have the Freedom to shoot idjuts that think the Wright Bros worked for the US Govt! Check your premises.
See, you just ignore facts that YOU KNOW.
Near ZERO advancment was developed by government. To be sure, the government stole money from some folks and gave it to others to further projects the predators-that-be preferred. What you don't see is all the new technology that would have been developed if that money was NOT stolen, and the scientists, engineers and technologists were NOT misdirected into government-favored projects.
By the way, the government did not invent air travel... though for sure it did fund military aircraft by private corporations, and some technologies were developed in that process. CAD/CAM tools are almost totally independent of government, which you should know (I certainly do, having created some).
I am a scientist, engineer, product developer. Lately, most of my contract work (a minority of my work) has been for NASA and AFRL. So I know what happens first hand... it is oh so painfully clear to me, from inside. Do I enjoy some technologies developed in the process of government funded programs? Sure. But I know the whole story, and what would happen without the atrocity of government. Overall, the government is not productive. They are extremely destructive overall, as they always have been.
We can all just go to work in all those factory jobs out there waiting for us.
Look, maybe you've been asleep for 20 years, but the kleptocratic executive class outsourced everything except themselves to somewhere else and have been pocketing the profits.
i know a guy who owed alot of money that he didnt have to pay , that was never his to take, to some people that he shouldnt have got involved with.....anyway, they knew he was a deadbeat and gave him many many chances to come clean and make the situation alot less stressful the sooner the air was clear.....this guy just kept kicking the can down the road and lied every single time, it was actually amazing......he just kept getting himself in worse and worse situation, but refused to come clean and come to a fair solution, which the other not so nice party was even willing to do......dont know if he thought he would win the lottery, was in shock, believed his own BS or why he didnt come clean but until his last day he still thought it was better not to tell the truth
i know it has nothing to do with this, but for some reason i always think of him , when i see the kick the can theory and lies told to the taxpayers.......
This is interesting. I am working on my dual PhD in Econ/Pshych. When we are done here I'll go to the astrophysics thread.
So, if I may ask: Is your premise that: if you become a taxpayer you are entitled to hear lies?
NO....i know my analogy was awful and what i actually was trying to say, but didnt do so clearly, was that i dont believe they are ever going to try and save capital by defaulting NOW ASAP....they are going to take this to the edge of the cliff and hope, pray it works out or they would rather take us all over the cliff instead of taking the pain now
for some reason i see the parallel of the two, because that guy KNEW he wasnt getting out of his crisis yet he played it until the very bitter end like he could and would, instead of taking his lighter penalty earlier .... all governments especially state and local must KNOW they are not getting out of this mess and yet they will continue to make things worse by not doing the right thing now.......DEFAULT
Those Irish are our only hope.
Good double major. If you f*ck the economy up, you can self-soothe. ;)
Irish Exports in my purchasing models handle that. The Psych is so I can sit in "math" classes with girls.
Unfortunately, the analogy is incorrect when applied to governments, because the predators in government get OTHER PEOPLE in debt when the spend.
This must stop. Governments are fictions, just as real as SantaClaus and the ToothFairy. Even fundamental law recognizes this when it calls all organizations "fictitious entities".
The time is long past for all governments to dissolve, and for humans to live without this evil, viscious, predatory fictitious parent.
Because people are so incredibly good at self-regulation in this respect? Please.
An armed society is a polite society. Check your premises (yet again!)
Well guess what? The people who moved to north america in the 1500s, 1600s, 1700s were one hell of a lot more self-regulating than modern homo-stupidus.
If you do not believe you have a parent ready to feed you, catch you, coddle you, take care of you... you will become much more self-regulating. Damn straight you will.
Today, people suck at self-regulation precisely because they hold this illusion of being taken care of. Fact is, people need motivation... both motivation to do what is necessary to survive and motivation to do what no man has done before (develop new technologies, etc). This motivation is mostly destroyed today, which is why we live in a world overrun by absolutely completely insane humans, massively out of touch with reality.
Harry Reid is pushing it hard, and Obama will do whatever his masters want. This bailout for the rich will unite the one government, see no dems no repubs, they are all the same. Federal as Federal Express, the Fed runs the show, ain't no stopping them. But what if China raised rates? They have already said that the US/Fed policy is idiotic and their rating agency has ruled the US worthless when considering the US runs the resserve currency. what if China raised rates then? First gold would be hit like a lightning rod. Gold loves defaltion, and as it moved up during Volker's rate hikes, so would it now. Give the rich their cake, so they can shove it in their pants. Don't get caught short, buy silver.
Oh please its a mortal lock, just like Gitmo not being closed and KSM being indefinetly detained rather than tried. JUST LIKE.
If they don't pass this the S&P 500 has a 5 or 6 handle on it by February.
Good.
Yep. We keep talking about packing up this circus yet seem so afraid of what that means.
Throw ending the Fed in there and work me up a new estimate.
Let's get it on!
RESEARCH: Will someone please spread-sheet 1) Florida and Nevada's foreclosures and connect them to the proper securities Prospectus?
Prove that specific homes are being targeted for foreclose due to their location in someone else's bond.
ya think, ya think?
(the CDS are still in the dark, right?)
DOA... it's never DOA.
...not only is the Senate's #2 Democrat "not very optimistic" about the option of extensions, but nobody even has a clue what is going on...
Yeah that's sort of how the Federal Reserve came about. On December 23 1913 all the "nobodies" with out a "clue" had all gone home...
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This will be extended after selloff once PTB have gotten sufficiently long at bottom.