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Calling Gambler's Anonymous
Hilarious. Unemployed bums now becoming expert "daytraders". Two days in a row, during my lunch break at Starbucks, I found young, slacker, unemployeds huddled around a table with their laptops daytrading stocks.
Yesterday, it there were two guys who looked like construction workers. One appeared to be a commercial door installer, who has suddenly turned into an expert economist and daytrader. He was sitting with an acquaintance, showing him how he was going to profit from his unfortunate job situation by shorting stocks and "make a killing". I mean, this guy was going on and on for 20 minutes explaining to his friend how he loaded up his last 200 shares of QID on margin, and how Mohammed El-Erian was was explaining about "sugar highs', and how all the banks were really broke, etc. etc. It was all I could do but to stop from laughing out loud.
Today, I saw two surfer/skateboard slackers, complete with flatbill caps, sunglasses worn backwards, "Affliction" t-shirts, etc. One guy was clearly the fast talker, teaching his friend how to daytrade using "resistance" and "support" on a 5-minute chart. Wanna bet what stocks he was talking about? Yep. AIG and Vonage. It was all I could do to keep from bursting out laughing.
Just goes to show how hordes of unemployeds have been suckered into "how to work from home" schemes by trading FX, stocks, options, etc. Radio stations here in L.A. are blasting ads for trading seminars and webinars 24/7 from various brokerage houses, and some of the online trading academies.
Would not surprise me in the least to see stocks really take off if Joe Six really starts bragging on how he got laid off, but is not making money hand over fist by gunning stocks on a computer.
Pretty much a non-stop meltup most of the day, and now DELL has beat by a penny and is rocketing up after hours.....
No doubt, the "O-Team" and all members of Geithner Bernanke, LLP will be high-fiving and heading to the Opium Den this evening...
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Awesome.
This post got on my nerves too…
I second the “Enjoy the heat” comment. We all used to follow crappy advice and be absolutely clueless – I lost a whole semester’s worth of hay-bailing money doing it. (gotta pay to learn) Anywho, I expect better out of ZH than this.
What kind of person criticizes other people for being clueless and pretentious whilst sipping lattes in an LA Starbucks?
Who makes fun of blue-collar employees trying to invest what little money they have. Many people not only lost their jobs in this downturn, but were simultaneously forced to pull their savings in the worst bear market ever. Some value feeding their kids more than YTD returns. RT, your entire pre-fabricated, valueless California lifestyle is the result of blue-collar workers – those working towards a society where people could aspire to become something more than soulless, money-making machines (or robotraders if you will). Do you find pleasure in milking their investment accounts? When analyzing the sacrifices and investments of those who created the society you choose to indulge yourself in… well… your P/E is way overvalued.
In the time it took to write this blog, you could have helped out those uninformed investors with some serious financial advice (the kind I like to get from ZH – I don’t read b/c of these self-aggrandizing craptorials). Who finds pleasure in lamenting others instead of helping others? While you may be an awesome investor, you obviously have no clue about life. The idea behind investing is to have enough money to where your life doesn’t revolve around it – and in this respect, you are just as lost as those you wrote about. Somebody else put this better, though…
“You're not your job. You're not how much money you have in the bank. You're not the car you drive. You're not the contents of your wallet. You're not your fucking khakis. You're the all-singing, all-dancing crap of the world.”
I suspect that he is just generally fed up with seeing examples of the financial stupidity and ignorance that led us to this point and takes it out on what he perceived to be several members of the "never pay attention until it's too late" majority that allowed this to happen and, now, still don't insist that the greatest transfer (theft) of wealth in the history of mankind BY FAR isn't halted immediately. Instead, they're suckered into listening to exactly the same asshats who got them into the mess in the first place who are now bilking them out of their last few dollars through intentionally misinformed day trading now that the attention diverting bread and circuses have ended. Had you warned these new day traders about the coming storm before it actually occurred, I suspect they'd have just ignored you, grabbed a beer and turned on some Fox TeeVee entertainment. That's the problem, an ignorant majority who remain ignorant of reality through a combination of their own apathy and oligarchy-induced propaganda.
Okay, am I the only one that enjoys a later schadenfreude?
It reminds me of March 2000...
BUT, no problem 'it is different this time...'
Robo forgot the girls.
Actually reminds me of the fall of 2001 - typical post-bubble behavior, laid off dot-commers/mortgage brokers buying CSCO / WFC because it was once "worth" 80/40 a share.
Just before they went postal they were overheard quoting Dan Akroyd in Trading Places... " Let's kick some ass! "
yeah, sounds like me back at dot.com 1.0, 1.01 and 1.02.
Real education is always expensive.......seniors always laugh at the frosh.
Now I'm a senior, doin' a lot better.......
This isn't going to end well.
K... what LA Starbucks was that?
I x 2 your observations; the get rich by flipping RE scheme machine has moved into penny stocks.
..."when the shoe shine boy starts giving you stock tips its time to get out of the market"...
Many shoe-shine boys are shorting the market this time...what do I make of it? Stocks will keep melting higher?
At this point I would believe it, and we won't get a correction until equities are being traded in Ameros.
RT eats at Starbucks?! He's part of the system too!!!!!! But seriously, how long till this animal bites back? I feel like we are living day to day here, what's it gonna take to push it over..............or is it already and there's nothing to do?
While pretentious and sadly deluded contruction workers and skateboarders are fair game for skewering, I had assumed that most of the commenters on this blog fell into generally the same categories.
RECO that post.
ROTFLMAO!
Jesus, no wonder the market keeps going up. Assholes like this are shorting it. I guess GS needs their money
GS and Robo are stealing their lunch money.
great anecdotal stories robo...thanks again for your daily insights.
must.....add.....pics......please
Yesterday I was at the Starbucks on Sepulveda Blvd. in El Segundo.
Today, I was in Starbucks at Hollywood Riviera in Redondo Beach.
let us the hunt - take Robo pix and sell them on craigslist, begin!!!
(just don't show up @ olympic & national :) )
However I must add this euphoria is mostly among 20 - 30's something. Older generation is not buying it.
Not so fast:
The 50-year-old from Naples, Fla., had limited investment knowledge but attended several seminars before starting to trade in May. So far, York said, she's up an average of 40% a month and is trading full time.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-trading25-2009aug25,0,2266089.story
Sorry for the double post didn't see your comment otherwise I would have posted here.
Excellent marketing! Bring all the fools to the table with their last dollars remaining before we pull the plug and they are all burned alive.
Excellent marketing plan! Brilliantly executed!
Bring every single sucker to the table with their very last dollars in their pockets before we pull the plug and they all burn to death.
Should be a merry christmas.
You're a "floater" then?
What's wrong Robo, you don't go to 7th and Montana in Santa Monica? You don't like sipin' Joe with the stars?
it's really funny. I am one of the blue collar joke persons of whom you speak. Sorry but it's hard to tell the diff between you "experts" and we "six-packers". I read various blogs each day to help with my trades and there's an awful lot of moaners and groaners on them who don't seem to know what the f#%k they are doing, tho' they talk a great game with all their charts and wave theories. Whatever, you're all just a bunch of snobs anyway...but I am helped by reading, studying and compiling all the info you put out everyday. So thanks, snobs.
you obviously have no idea what you are doing. So just go Index.
yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!
Do you know what "talking your book" means?
uh...it essentially means you are spreading information that would help the positions you have in the market.
/indexindexindexindex lol
Exactly, but I don't think the guy you replied to gets that.
WOW-Someone touched a nerve.
I do know of what you speak...Stocktwits threatened to ban such perpetrator/manipulators just this afternoon. Me thinks you underestimate us, my friend! Trader/hairdressers rule!
Nice picture, is that where the beautiful people sit and talk about how vix lix dix?
U mean they sit around and talk about stock strategies, and the ecconomy... What a bunch of LOSERS!
Well, it's funny for me to read this article. I am a blue collar worker and I just came back a couple hours ago from a Forex trading class. The instructor suggested this site for articles and look what was the first thing that I found!!!!
Well I understand what you say and would appreciate any suggestion about a better idea to be a sucessful investor than to educate myself.
Thanks in advance
I made a few bucks trading FAZ (bought yesterday, sold on this morning's spike before it got wacked--almost 3% including AH from open or ~5% from high). I almost held it thinking that the news about maybe 1000 banks failing, FDIC broke, FED audit is end of world, etc. would have to drive the banks lower. Fortunately, I read ZH and know that any trade based on reality is doomed. Thanks TD.
Huge run on these today:
Can't believe I'm going to say this about any vehicle manufacturing company right now, but OSK is arguably justified. They are in like Flint.
Like "Flynn", from Joyce.
Flint, in relation to auto-making. My puns are questionable at best.
shorted OSK at the high, justified has nothing to do with this market...
Its not the Opium den - I call it the OBium den.
Excuse me, it's Owebium.
Or ah, Obiwan den.
Help us.You're our only hope.
Tradery snobbery
I'd love to know how you have to look and what brand of t-shirts you need to wear to be considered a serious trader and not be laughed at by mr. robot trader
Serious Traders don't rent bandwidth from Starbucks.
What type of t-shirts do you wear robot trader?
I want to look like a real hotshot so I can laugh at people too
These "day traders" won't last long/ won't lose much before they slink off. When you're really broke, one down day is enough to wise you up.
Definitely a sign of the times though. God forbid anyone slog out an existence by going to work every day for 50 years and sticking some of the earnings into responsible investments.
No, we need to figure out the angle that will give us that whole lifetime of earnings RIGHT NOW, with as little work as possible!
"If my vapid skateboarding dope dealer is doing it, I can do it too!"
"Definitely a sign of the times though. God forbid anyone slog out an existence by going to work every day for 50 years and sticking some of the earnings into responsible investments."
you know if you gave that concept a catchy name ... maybe something like "buy and hold" it might catch on
LOL!
Give me a break. Everyone I know who did that is now in deep sh** because their investments have lost up to 50% of their value. You wouldn't believe what us "sloggers" hear from the financial advisors. Some of us are trying to learn for ourselves so we can stop getting screwed. It's not about a lifetime of earnings Right Now with as little work as possible. First, I'm still just trying to "slog" my way to a retirement after 65. Second, learning how to invest while working full time at another job means hours and hours of studying at night and on the weekends. In fact, it IS a second job. And don't write us all off as vapid - my husband studied electrical engineering and I teach Calculus. We ain't all that dumb.
If you have a down year of 50% and you're crapping yourself, you need to derisk and get into some safer shit.
There's two types of people in the world: the majority piss themselves and dump everything at the bottom of the market in a stupid panic. The other says, "Fuck me. What a deal. I'm in for more."
Look back on 80 years of market returns. There are years with a down of -40%, -50%, and even more. But you're an idiot if you think one year means anything. If you were stupid enough to be 100% equity 2 years to retirement, then I suppose you deserve what you get. The market has, over 80 years, returned an average of 1% per month even taking into account everything from 1929 to 2009.
1% per month. These tards shorting stocks and getting IBD tips and "trader talk" that they got from a Schwab forum are the fuel for the big dogs.
Someone above commented about buying indices. Guess what? That's the boring, and successful approach. Traders come and go. There's a reason that most hedgefunds don't last but a few years and why most mutual funds can't beat a Vanguard index fund. "Trading" is a suckers game.
I'm a blue collar worker too, but smart enough to know that if the hedge funds and mutual funds can't beat the market consistently, then why should I? There's a lot of people pissing and moaning in this thread having taking offense to RT's comment about the fools in Starbucks.
But casino games all have one thing in common -- the house always wins in the end. And these fools aren't the house.
If you want to "learn to trade" my suggestion is to put all your money in a shoebox and throw it into a dumpster. That's "trading" for most people. If you want to learn to invest, that's a lot simpler. And a lot more boring. That's how it should be. This isn't a game. It's not supposed to be fun.
If you invested all your money in late 1999 or October 2007, have you really returned 1% a month since then?
For simplicity, I will cite only the pertinent portion of my comment in reply:
"The market has, over 80 years, returned an average of 1% per month even taking into account everything from 1929 to 2009."
It's an art, not a science. You'll find it takes a different kind of "smarts" to be one of the 3 of 10 of live through the first year of trading.
Here's another newbie turned expert:
The 50-year-old from Naples, Fla., had limited investment knowledge but attended several seminars before starting to trade in May. So far, York said, she's up an average of 40% a month and is trading full time.
"It's the best job I've ever had, not just for the enjoyment but from the compensation standpoint," said York, who previously sold telecom equipment. "I've replaced a significant six-figure income."
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-trading25-2009aug25,0,2266089.story
Inspirational story, thanks for the link.
From the smug tone of your piece I gotta ask, uncle ben, is that u?
Robo-2 of my childhood friends who've been junkies most of their adult lives started trading about a yr ago, then daytrading about six months ago. They have no idea what the companies do, just look for tips on symbols or whats moving. They were actually doing pretty good until the July rampo, when one of em sold out all his stocks [cause he heard somewhere the mkt was goin down] and plunked it all down on FAZ. At the time he was up about 50% but needless to say FAZ put a large hole in his P&L. He called me after the fact and I told him to sell the stinker no matter what the loss- that was with FAZ still at around 40. Hope he took my advice havent heard from him since
i'll bet he never sold....."....it can't go lower, it just can't"
maybe some of these new daytraders should read about the daytraders during the dot com days of the late 90's.......
Or more appropriate, learn about gambling addictions. Because that's exactly the same type of thinking. "This machine is hot. It has to hit soon!"
It's comforting and really restores my faith in humanity when I see others revelling in the misfortune and ignorance of fellow human beings. You must be very proud of yourself, RT.
That's what schadenfreude is all about, dude!
Schadenfreude:
Pleasure derived from the misfortunes of others.
Now here's a box of tissues, go cry me a river.
If you don't know what you're doing, and you engage in risky behavior, you deserve to have your head handed to you on a platter.
Or as Will Munny quipped, "Deserve's got nothin' to do with it."
You talk about Schadenfreude, but what have these individuals who you don't know done to harm you? Only sociopaths wish for and revel in the harm of complete strangers.
Yes, with capitalism you invest your money, or time or labour, and you take your chances. However, what we have is not capitalism, for the game is rigged and these 'unemployed bums' stand no chance. What I found most reprehensible about Robo's post was his description, with a sneer, of people who are suffering misfortune in their lives as 'unemployed bums'. They may be unemployed through no fault of their own, or maybe not, though Robo says that the two he saw yesterday looked like construction workers. Therefore, their actual productivity when they were employed may have exceeded the actual productivity of many in financial services. After all, construction workers build homes for families to live in. Who is more useful: a builder or carpenter or a derivatives trader? Which skills would you rather have in the event of a systemic meltdown? Maybe they will have the last laugh. And their misfortune may be partly due to the deeds of some of those who work in finance.
And yes, a fool and his money are easily parted and casino capitalism is no game for the ignorant. Maybe they are desperate and ignorant. Maybe it's a last throw of the dice in order to be able to feed or heal their families. Or maybe it's greed. We don't know the circumstances and perhaps should reserve judgement, and not revel in the misfortune of complete strangers.
Oh my gosh, your latest rant has made me see the error of my ways.
Now slug, go peddle your crap to GS and the Federal Reserve.
Most everyone---but not all---laughs at the one on the social ladder just below himself. RT is laughing at the "slackers", the houses are laughing at the ZH'ers, Goldman is laughing at its "competitors", the big hedge funds are laughing at Goldman....
In the end we're all just as dead and just as forgotten and completely inconsequential in the overall scheme of things, which also doesn't matter a lick. It just is.
So "be nice".
sorry to break the news robo but the type of people you make fun of are a big part of overall ZH audience (ok the upper tier of them who make it past the mainstream bullshit and newbie trapping "learning" sites)
Zero hedge is better than this crap article
Hit a nerve, didn't it?
Only jackasses make fun of newbie traders.
We were all clueless and learning once.
Not all new retail traders are so idiotically conspicuous. For people like that, it's about vanity and image (much like a Bluetooth headset). I'm waiting for Robo Trader to post WiFi jamming box tutorial that hits B/G/N and ruins their day for less than 20 dollars on your part.
How many billions have you made? Maybe you should focus more on your own trading and less on other people's.
If I don't focus on what other people are doing, then I'm not doing my job.
Let's not take the allegory to deep.
Fact-Shoe shine boys give stock tips at market tops. Happens every time, no?
Many shoe shine boys probably know the difference between to and too
LOL!
"For people like that, it's about vanity and image (much like a Bluetooth headset)"
Right, not at all a quality the avg Joe attributes to the avg Starbuck connoisseur. Nor would one think anyone in Los Angeles would have that kind of an attitdue about anything, much less at a Starbucks of all places.
I really don't think it has anything to do with stocks, t-shirts, lap-tops or QID.
OK, I doubt ROBO is making fun. He is just trying to warn you all... be aware of what you get yourself into :)
Robo is saying that because some of them wear Affliction t-shirts they're unintelligent morons who are far inferior to him
if it takes some healthy sarcasm and finger pointing because everything else doesn't work, so be it.
Long term profits are "correlated" with good risk management rather than adrenaline and excitement of the herd. (and yeah, we all are part of the herd, it's just not all of us realise it.)
i didn't read it that way at all....i saw the
relationship between intelligence and
affliction t-shirts as co-linear phenomenon
rather than causal.....
the point of the article is that people with
no training and no experience in markets and finance
have all of a sudden become experts...
professional traders and fund managers wipe out
so why is that these kids think that they are
any smarter?....
to trade there are two skills to master -
technical analysis and fundamentals....most
novices don't really understand what they are
doing - they just think that they do.....episodic
success does not make you an expert...
on top of that you have to know who moves markets
finally you need to know the history of markets
to put their behaviors in context...
the old adage applies - when you start getting
stock tips from your cab driver you know that
the market is past ripe....
regarding fundamentals - i worked for a top tier
boutique consulting firm which paid good money
to bring in an instructor to teach its people
how to evaluate companies financially - this is
stuff which should have been learned in college
and in some ways was simply a crash course or
refresher...but the point is that if these 6 figure
types with their numerous degrees needed coaching on
how to evaluate, roi, roa, roe, inventory
turnover, capital configuration, irr, ebitda,
cash flow, free cash flow, etc et al
then how is it that someone without a solid
finance background is going to evaluate
a company's financial prospects? if you can't
spit out those details i just mentioned in
your sleep plus others you have no business
investing....trading maybe, but not investing...
but that leads to trading - at that point all
you are doing is playing craps...you might win
but you will also eventually lose it...
the point of the article was entirely a propos...
Except that, none of THAT really means jack anymore.
That's why we're here.
it really does and always will mean jack....
the reason why you are seeing what you think is
a disconnect between fundamentals and market
performance is because of the flood of fed
money seeping into the market - the fed is
trying to reinflate - it's that simple...
there are also substantial amounts of other
manipulations but this is the prime mover of
this market....until the fed stops bailing
water from its hopelessly leaky boat the normal
instrumentation will be running haywire....
even the technical analysts are having a hard
time with this market...which makes it a good
one to observe but not risk any seed money with.
A rather pathetic post, making cheap fun of other people... it doesn't belong here.
"It was all I could do but to stop from laughing out loud."
This is improper English. The 'but' is extraneous.
Oh man now I'm about to laugh out loud myself! What a moron! Do they give any J6P a column on Zero Hedge these days?
Going ad hominem against Robo on one particular word (which isn't even improper in the first place) just makes you look stupid.
When you don't have anything substantive to say, you should just shut your rotten mouth.
Wow. As bent as you are about RT's funny little piece means something. Were you the newbie talking charts at Starbucks? Fricking hilarious.
i can't for the life of me figure out how anyone
took this seriously or personally....yes
there was a point to the article but if it
touched a nerve
then i think someone needs to go to zerointelligence..
My faves today: CIT, MBI, GNW
Seriously, you just can't go short when there are only 2 losers out of top 30 losers+gainers on the sp500.
No way, ABK beat them all, up 46% today.
Robo, It reminds me of the diner in Jersey, Ocean City circle, the rest proprieter was day trading while he was collecting the tabs. The year 1999.
Can the commercial to buy your own island be toooo far off.
If this was easy, there'd be more traders on the Forbe's 500 or now 250.
Nuf said!
Hey RoboT; you know i like you man; but this is pure ad hominem; and IMHO; blue collars contribute more to this society we have than any paper-pushing WS assholes ( no offense to those who are on WS, but not assholes ). And if it wasn't for the moronic ( again not all, just the majority ) WS'ers this shit would not happen. You need a man who rides the garbage truck, you need an electrician, you need a cab-driver, you need construction workers; but you don't need someone who trades CDS or parks oil in tankers off-shore to ramp the price for his own personal gain. And " blue collars " who were fired due to WS assholes and their mistake have no other way out than to try and trade for a living. I know on WS money is in abundance; but in real life; its actually pretty hard to get some.
No other way than gambling? Then why day trading? Because of the margin? Because of the "certainty" of outcome they seemingly possess? If gambling is the only way out then certainly there are better forms of it like Hold 'Em against Freshman and Sophmores in college.
No trader has a career without a blowup at some point, but the unsophisticated day trader has nothing to fall back on, no other source of income once that blow up happens (and I am willing to bet the Latte Trader thinks they've diversified enough without any thought to correllation of the names they're buying.)
Trading as a long term career is a fool's game if you're using your own capital.
i didnt think it was possible; but you have managed to miss all the points i have stated in my post. It is not about fucking around trading stocks; its about disparity; something many of you WS assholes know nothing about. Try eat a CDS or make a bond design your car so its safe to drive.
Yeah, keep spewing your bullshit; trading paper is not a job; and i dont fucking care how you picture it; and it is their free will to do with their money what they want; not yours.
To state my case even further; blatant trading and manipulation of basic commodities like oil or corn is not a fucking job; but a parasitic form of exploitation of other peoples hard work for your own personal gain. The point of life is not having enough money to buy 2000/g blow.
So why are you then encouraging blue collar types to participate in "non-work" when you hold "real-work" in such high esteem? Are all your ethics as pliable as a Chinese gymnast?
because, sadly, 23 trillion dollars went to WS to trade more paper and not to main street to create job and actually PRODUCE things. it is not double ethics you moron, it is reality. Try opening a facility which would produce toothpicks or synthetic leather or try setting up a firm which would distribute energy. Yeah; tough luck asshole; there is virtually 0 chance you'll get the money you need for your operation; but when it comes to couple of thousand WS fuck-ups there is no problem whatsoever to give them 23 trillion dollars to fuck up things some more.
So if slop is going to be offered, everyone should act like a pig?
And you're describing political capture destroying entrepenuership, which still doesn't resolve why you're endorsing people you respect to engage in something you disrespect.
are you illiterate or do you suffer from dyslexia ? THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT THEY CAN DO TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES. Do you get that; or is your bubble sealed so hard you don't understand that this is not Platonic space we live in ? Do i need to go further or is this enough for you.
If that's the only way they can fathom to support themselves then they suffer from a surprising lack of creativity (especially if gambling is the only thing they can conceive of, especially daytrading equities.) which is probably why they are unemployed now.
I don't know how you're missing the obvious problems and ethical consequences of invoking "only choice to survive" as a cause to do something risky and in lieu of something more productive, which you've already stated as being something you respect.
which is probably why they are unemployed now.
No, fuck-face; they are un-employed because your WS buddies fucked things up; bought the Congress and installed their puppet into the WH. THATS WHY THEY ARE UNEMPLOYED. Shove your spin where the sun doesn't shine.
I'm trying to figure if this is Cheeky? Or Karl Denninger coming in and blowing gaskets under a pseudonym. Agree with the general thrust and direction, but the emotional outbursts and rage blunt the attack FROM A 3rd PARTY'S POINT OF VIEW. Breathe, Cheeky, breathe.
Even on a sinking ship, there are subsets of rats; Those that are unaware that the ship is sinking, those that know it is but are too far down to get out, those that are aware but can't swim, those that are aware and can swim but haven't jumped,those that make a break for the cheese and hardtack, those that actually make it into the water and drown, those that hide in the lifeboats and make it back to shore, and those that are watching from shore as they wonder why any rat would get on a ship in the first place.
You're the rat gnawing at the crew's ankles for running the ship aground while encouraging the other rats to jump in the water because they can't be any less seaworthy than the crew and ship.
It's funny how you think I'm Wall Street. I play for another team.
It was interesting to read this thread, watching as Cheeky continues to give lucid explanations to one who does not understand. I'm with you, Cheeky, and forget this guy. He isn't capable of understanding.
ding ding ding ding
(grabs popcorn)
And you know what, Cheeky, I like reading your stuff too. But where do you figure RT's making attacks on the Blue Collars? Where in the description, " . . . two surfer/skateboard slackers, complete with flatbill caps, sunglasses worn backwards, "Affliction" t-shirts, etc. . ." do you pick up 'blue collar'? I'm all about the blue collar worker, but seems like ya'll are projecting on this: this is about slacker, get rich quick guys with little experience in trading markets, not about blue collar people being less worthy than Whitey.
RECO that post!
Construction workers, skateboarders and other sorts of "retail traders" can't destroy the economy any worse than hotshot supertrader experts have.
No, but they can destroy themselves and then piss and moan to the government about how reform is needed to prevent their own stupidity (reference the populist backlash against 3x leveraged ETFs for further proof of this).
Pros don't care what kids are doing with a 2k account. Robo is what's wrong
with this town. Enjoy the heat.
Depends on what the Pros job is. Again, if you aren't following what the lowest common denominator is doing, you're missing part of the big picture. Case in point; Subprime Lending. Why should a REIT analyst care about what unemployed people are doing when purchasing a home to "flip" it after losing their job?
No intention of hurting anyone's feelings.
Just trying to make a point that I doubt seriously that the market is going to go down any time soon when the retail public is now starting to enter the market in droves.
After the Dot.Bomb collapse, these people all but disappeared. They were not even absent during the 2003-2007 run. But now the public is now returning to playing in the market, so that in itself should serve as ample warning to those who are short.
Eventually, the public will be participating in a big way, it will be the subject of most chatter at cocktail parties. That will be the time to start thinking about going short.
i don't think the retail market is large enough
to sustain the market let alone move it....
what percentage is
gs, hedge funds, instiutional, professionally
managed funds, program trading? my guess is
that it is so large
that retail investors are but a blip.
robo-
I hear where your coming from, it's hard to listen to n00bs, when one has invested a significant portion of their life learning to read the tea levee of charts, especially when they talk with an air of knowledge they don't have. But stop, think, is this not exactly what ben, big-O, and the M$M, are banking on. The half educated, bat-swinging, china hating, avg Joe six pack, to dump what they have on black 36 (AIG) and let GS fleece em for whatever they can? Equities are the new Real Estate, and we would all be better to realize that now.
Like I said above, the correlation between average Joe's interest in trading and market tops is well understood. It's that simple. Maybe I'll get called a F#CK FACE but then I haven't been up all night on an absinthe binge.
CHEERS !
Anyone who can't laugh at themselves should be more worried about which High Blood Pressure pill to pick, than which stock.
Combining the Shoeshine Boy and Random Walk theories I would argue is a legitimate means of analysis in the current market, when fundamental and technical anlaysis have both failed. I agree with Robot's premise today.
Are you kidding? The "public" either 1) isn't about to risk what retirement money they have left, or 2) only have a couple thousand left. Not exactly seeing how the market continues up on that rationale.
What have you been smoking? Is this a Coffee shop in CA or in Amsterdam that you overheard these conversations?
"But now the public is now returning to playing in the market, so that in itself should serve as ample warning to those who are short."
What kind of buying power does this public you speak of have? A lot of public money is in mutual funds, which by their very nature (getting paid for management) will always be invested in the market... ok they'll go from current 10% cash to 5%, big deal. The rest of the 'public' already participated in the housing boom, remember? BTW, your logic, if you can call it that, places "poor, out of work blue collar investors" at "cocktail parties"?! Go buy another $7 coffee, and wake up!
Listen, Hobo, unless you want to break down constructively why the comments you overheard were asinine, your post is nothing more than digital masterbation -- Nobody cares about your inane self-gratifying babble. Stop polluting this site.
You should have laughed and gave them a zerohedge card, so they could atleast taken their bows for making it on zerohedge the next day.
Excuse me. You are describing the peanut gallery of Zero Hedge.
The more I think about this post the more it bugs me. If you're such
a hot shot Robo why don't you give them a little of your professional
advice and help, they're gonna need it. This business and town could do without guys like Robo.
Zero Hedge is not in the business of giving advice.
There is an old adage that when your cab driver starts giving you stock tips, it's time to sell. It's not a rip on cab drivers, it means that the general public starts piling into the markets at the top, and bail out at the bottom. I think that was the intent of the post.
why should he offer anyone gratuitous advice?
they can get off their asses and learn on their
own....you have leech and entitlement mentality...
they want to start at the top - they will
wind their ways to the bottom if they don't
know what they are doing....
Some feedback for RobotTrader:
First, anyone can paste charts...
Second, it must be painful not knowing why people are reading your posts... is it the content or the nudity?
Robo, how about you enlighten us with some of your recommended trades in a new post. I won't hold my breath.
if you want your trades to work, you ve got to think for yourself. Otherwise the modern portfolio - asset allocation based on your risk tolerance is your best friend.
Giving tips is rather unprofessional and often could be unethical.
Giving tips is rather unprofessional and often could be unethical. (unless you give them in advance to preferred readers/clients)
I think the whole point is to not give any recommendations.
Just for fun I actually signed up with a guy who supposedly sends penny stock tips. Paid the initial fee and cancelled the service, got my fee back. But still receiving his emails and still no stock tip just a bunch of hold out tactics.
The stock market itself is a part of the new economy.
People are prepared to pay for anything that will promise them a good return.
Heck, there are palm reader and psychic stores everywhere and there used to be a psychic network. People pay for this crap and if there's a gullible idiot, there's someone willing to sell to the idiot.
Think of the traditional snake oil salesmen.
Remember that movie "tin men" anyone?
Selling to gullible people has a tradition in America (and anywhere else for that matter). Americans didn't invent the sales gimmick.
Today, Americans are being bombarded with ads to engage in stock trading, being a "beach bum" and having +4000% returns in a week or sooner. There's a google ad on this website doing just that.
What Americans aren't being told in the same ads is that the practice of trading comes with a risk. Is like when cigarettes where advertised as cool and even doctors smoked on billboards.
Robo's gunnin' the shorts, vrrroom
C'mon,Robo rakes everybody that's why hes so popular. Nobody complains when he rips the usual whipping boys & girls. You're all jumpin up and down clapping. But I guess skateboarders & const workers are sacred. Fact is if the skates have been long in this mkt they've been whippin the butts of all the shorts on this site. But humor aside I think Robot's on to something here. This doesnt seem to me like 2000 all over again. Its not taxi driver tips at the top. Its something else. Maybe its total, hyper- casino- society-24/7 and it aint just skates & const workers. Take a look at yerself
Yo, Anonymous, did you ever read ZH's manifesto? You know, the whole thing about the message being important and not where the message is coming from? Content over personality? Robotrader did the exact opposite. Instead of explaining the fallacy of the ideas he overheard, he denigrated the ideas solely based on who was saying them.
double post.
This post bugs me too. We're all just trying to make a living and support our families. Kiss my ass, Robo.
if i take up neurosurgury after watching an
episode of nova because i want to support my
family does that make my endeavor virtuous?
i am all for people doing something for which
they have studied and understand but jumping into
something because of random success or because
of the bandwagon effect is irresponsible....
it was this herd mentality which got us where
we are now....everyone piled into real estate
because he wanted to invest for the future - right...
If you practice neurosurgery with your own brain then you can do whatever you want.
lol....and such people have no more gray
matter than can't be handled with outpatient
surgury...
I'm not putting too much into this. Business is business and if someone spends their day at Starbucks trading stocks, hanging with friends and discussing the economy and the market etc then so be it. What do I know. Some of them might have had a better run since March then myself. My investment strategy is pretty conservative and I am old fashioned and believe in diversification as in stocks, bonds, gold and land.
Sure there's a huge upside and downside potential in the stock market every day. If you're on the right side of the trade. Hindsight is 20/20. Last year's crash came as much as a surprise as this years run. Only thing it has amplified for me is just how corrupt and manipulated the markets are. I trade and rarely leave money on the table unless I know who is who in the company and when insiders are buying or selling. Other than that, the stock market has been a casino for many years if not always.
So these people are meeting at Starbucks to do their trading?
Must be good business for Starbucks. Maybe that's a stock worth owning?
Robo, please ignore 'em - must be blogo / media wars. Their replies seem to be coordinated and probability of such an event to be random is rather.... small.
Robo, please ignore 'em - must be blogo / media wars. Their replies seem to be coordinated and probability of such an event to be random is rather.... small.
WTF is wrong with you man; yes, everyone here can prove you that I'm a PR person for MSM. You're the equivalent of those morons who think that criticizing Obama is racist; you just transform the mechanics here and say that everyone who dare stand with " blue collars" must be MSM fans. Grow the fuck up; and learn that this is not about attacking Robo but the silly idea that blue collars are "un-intelligent" enough, or " un-worthy " to step into the holly land of douches; THE MARKET.
Unworthy? No. Unintelligent? No.
Unaware of self, situation and surroundings. Yes.
CB, You are taking it way too personal. It wasn't about anyone being unworthy, his post is about people getting into something with little understanding of potential risks involved. I was myself one of those kids back in 01, fortunately I was wise enough to gamble only 20% of my savings rather than going for a margin and the sky.
When I see an exited day trader screaming profits, I laugh myself. It is not because I believe I am above or a pro. It's because I can relate, I ve been there and I am aware that nothing but a huge loss will teach those kids to use breaks. Unfortunately, most of them after their losses will pull out for a while and will miss the upside. (or downside if they are perma bears. )
As of blog wars, just look at all of those anon replies.... ok maybe I was off, of maybe I ve typed it on purpose... so you could take a chill pill or two.
his post is about people getting into something with little understanding of potential risks involved.
Free will my friend; free will; they will suffer the consequence of their action ( either good or bad ) UNLIKE WS; the will either make some mula or loss some mula; and; that in my opinion is a brave thing; knowing that you might lose money
And, no this is not personal to me; it is the fact that 99% of my employees are " blue collar " ( construction workers; engeneers etc ) and i know from a personal experience how hard they have to work. And i respect that and i will defend them till the day i die; and i wont allow for no one to insult them.
And to call someone " an un-employed bums " is disrespectful; and particularly dangerous, cause you can be one of those "un-employed bums ". Modesty does wonders my friend. We are all the same no matter what; and to insult people just because they have an un-orthodox way of doing something; or lack the funds to do it " the right " way is just plain stupid. I like RoboT, and read all his articles; but this one just stepped over the line.
Do they really think or know they might lose money? Desperation does awful things to risk perception. There's a suttle difference between "I can lose all my money" and "I can afford to lose all my money" and the greener or more desperate you are, the less weight the former has.
CB: However if you have been in his shoes, the reason for calling them un-employed bums is much more obvious. It is not about disrespect, it's about your frustration knowing that trying to talk any sense into them is futile. So they only hope is to piss them off and draw their attention.
If you trying to do a diligent job as an investment advisor, it is a hell right now. The same customers who you saved during the decline by keeping high cash positions, getting rid of junk and keeping them invested in high quality assets are calling you and demanding to be invested in financials, RE, etc just because their upside was not as insane as of their neighbor. Not that they realize that their neighbor has probably overstated his "success."
Of cause the above holds only if you are not a MER/GS broker. :) No pun intended but they often are encouraged not to ... and your compensation depends on not giving ...
p.s. PEACE?
B.S., he/she either serves *Bux, or is talkin' the book, man
Love you CB.
you are wrong, if he talks shit about retail traders on a blog read by retail traders, the retail traders are gonna get upset
no conspiracy required
Skateboarding is like day trading man...
You ride the cement wave until you pop a gnarly backside air...then you bail and you profit big time....dude.
(or until your hand slips, you smash your collarbone on the curb and crack your head open on a margin call)