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Calling Gambler's Anonymous

RobotTrader's picture





 

Hilarious. Unemployed bums now becoming expert "daytraders".  Two days in a row, during my lunch break at Starbucks, I found young, slacker, unemployeds huddled around a table with their laptops daytrading stocks.

Yesterday, it there were two guys who looked like construction workers.  One appeared to be a commercial door installer, who has suddenly turned into an expert economist and daytrader.  He was sitting with an acquaintance, showing him how he was going to profit from his unfortunate job situation by shorting stocks and "make a killing".  I mean, this guy was going on and on for 20 minutes explaining to his friend how he loaded up his last 200 shares of QID on margin, and how Mohammed El-Erian was was explaining about "sugar highs', and how all the banks were really broke, etc. etc.  It was all I could do but to stop from laughing out loud.

Today, I saw two surfer/skateboard slackers, complete with flatbill caps, sunglasses worn backwards, "Affliction" t-shirts, etc.  One guy was clearly the fast talker, teaching his friend how to daytrade using "resistance" and "support" on a 5-minute chart.  Wanna bet what stocks he was talking about?  Yep.  AIG and Vonage.  It was all I could do to keep from bursting out laughing.

Just goes to show how hordes of unemployeds have been suckered into "how to work from home" schemes by trading FX, stocks, options, etc.  Radio stations here in L.A. are blasting ads for trading seminars and webinars 24/7 from various brokerage houses, and some of the online trading academies.

Would not surprise me in the least to see stocks really take off if Joe Six really starts bragging on how he got laid off, but is not making money hand over fist by gunning stocks on a computer.

Pretty much a non-stop meltup most of the day, and now DELL has beat by a penny and is rocketing up after hours.....

No doubt, the "O-Team" and all members of Geithner Bernanke, LLP will be high-fiving and heading to the Opium Den this evening...

 


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Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:08 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:11 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 22:21 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 22:36 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:15 | Link to Comment Digital Gunfire
Digital Gunfire's picture

It reminds me of March 2000...

BUT, no problem 'it is different this time...'

Robo forgot the girls.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:28 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

Actually reminds me of the fall of 2001 - typical post-bubble behavior, laid off dot-commers/mortgage brokers buying CSCO / WFC because it was once "worth" 80/40 a share.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:21 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

Just before they went postal they were overheard quoting  Dan Akroyd in Trading Places... " Let's kick some ass! "

Fri, 08/28/2009 - 15:27 | Link to Comment bbbilly1326
bbbilly1326's picture

 

yeah, sounds like me back at dot.com 1.0, 1.01 and 1.02.

 

Real education is always expensive.......seniors always laugh at the frosh.

 

Now I'm a senior, doin' a lot better.......

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:20 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

This isn't going to end well.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:27 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

K... what LA Starbucks was that?

I x 2 your observations; the get rich by flipping RE scheme machine has moved into penny stocks. 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:27 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Gordon_Gekko
Gordon_Gekko's picture

Many shoe-shine boys are shorting the market this time...what do I make of it? Stocks will keep melting higher?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:23 | Link to Comment D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

At this point I would believe it, and we won't get a correction until equities are being traded in Ameros.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:30 | Link to Comment OMFGjustINDEX
OMFGjustINDEX's picture

RT eats at Starbucks?! He's part of the system too!!!!!! But seriously, how long till this animal bites back? I feel like we are living day to day here, what's it gonna take to push it over..............or is it already and there's nothing to do?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:37 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:10 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

RECO that post.

 

ROTFLMAO!

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:37 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:38 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

great anecdotal stories robo...thanks again for your daily insights.

 

must.....add.....pics......please

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:39 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Yesterday I was at the Starbucks on Sepulveda Blvd. in El Segundo.

Today, I was in Starbucks at Hollywood Riviera in Redondo Beach.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

let us the hunt - take Robo pix and sell them on craigslist, begin!!!

(just don't show up @ olympic & national :)  )

 

However I must add this euphoria is mostly among 20 - 30's something. Older generation is not buying it. 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:03 | Link to Comment percolator
percolator's picture

Not so fast:

The 50-year-old from Naples, Fla., had limited investment knowledge but attended several seminars before starting to trade in May. So far, York said, she's up an average of 40% a month and is trading full time.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-trading25-2009aug25,0,2266089.story

Sorry for the double post didn't see your comment otherwise I would have posted here.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:16 | Link to Comment snorkeler
snorkeler's picture

Excellent marketing plan! Brilliantly executed!

Bring every single sucker to the table with their very last dollars in their pockets before we pull the plug and they all burn to death.

Should be a merry christmas.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:46 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:25 | Link to Comment D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

What's wrong Robo, you don't go to 7th and Montana in Santa Monica? You don't like sipin' Joe with the stars?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:43 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:56 | Link to Comment OMFGjustINDEX
OMFGjustINDEX's picture

you obviously have no idea what you are doing. So just go Index.

 

yo ho ho and a bottle of rum!

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:05 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Do you know what "talking your book" means?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:09 | Link to Comment OMFGjustINDEX
OMFGjustINDEX's picture

uh...it essentially means you are spreading information that would help the positions you have in the market.

 

/indexindexindexindex lol

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:16 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Exactly, but I don't think the guy you replied to gets that.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:26 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

WOW-Someone touched a nerve.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:00 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:43 | Link to Comment waterdog
waterdog's picture

Nice picture, is that where the beautiful people sit and talk about how vix lix dix?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:44 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:55 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:47 | Link to Comment Invisible Hand
Invisible Hand's picture

I made a few bucks trading FAZ (bought yesterday, sold on this morning's spike before it got wacked--almost 3% including AH from open or ~5% from high).  I almost held it thinking that the news about maybe 1000 banks failing, FDIC broke, FED audit is end of world, etc. would have to drive the banks lower.  Fortunately, I read ZH and know that any trade based on reality is doomed.  Thanks TD. 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:48 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Huge run on these today:

 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:38 | Link to Comment Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

Can't believe I'm going to say this about any vehicle manufacturing company right now, but OSK is arguably justified.  They are in like Flint.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:23 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 08/28/2009 - 12:04 | Link to Comment Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

Flint, in relation to auto-making.  My puns are questionable at best.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 22:15 | Link to Comment D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

shorted OSK at the high, justified has nothing to do with this market...

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:49 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:34 | Link to Comment VLee
VLee's picture

Excuse me, it's Owebium.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:17 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

Or ah, Obiwan den.

Help us.You're our only hope.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:07 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Serious Traders don't rent bandwidth from Starbucks.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Gick
Gick's picture

What type of t-shirts do you wear robot trader?

 

I want to look like a real hotshot so I can laugh at people too

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:53 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:04 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

"Definitely a sign of the times though. God forbid anyone slog out an existence by going to work every day for 50 years and sticking some of the earnings into responsible investments."

you know if you gave that concept a catchy name ... maybe something like "buy and hold" it might catch  on

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:28 | Link to Comment D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

LOL!

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:21 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Fri, 08/28/2009 - 00:40 | Link to Comment Ghettomedic
Ghettomedic's picture

If you have a down year of 50% and you're crapping yourself, you need to derisk and get into some safer shit.

There's two types of people in the world: the majority piss themselves and dump everything at the bottom of the market in a stupid panic. The other says, "Fuck me. What a deal. I'm in for more."

Look back on 80 years of market returns. There are years with a down of -40%, -50%, and even more. But you're an idiot if you think one year means anything. If you were stupid enough to be 100% equity 2 years to retirement, then I suppose you deserve what you get. The market has, over 80 years, returned an average of 1% per month even taking into account everything from 1929 to 2009.

1% per month. These tards shorting stocks and getting IBD tips and "trader talk" that they got from a Schwab forum are the fuel for the big dogs.

Someone above commented about buying indices. Guess what? That's the boring, and successful approach. Traders come and go. There's a reason that most hedgefunds don't last but a few years and why most mutual funds can't beat a Vanguard index fund. "Trading" is a suckers game.

I'm a blue collar worker too, but smart enough to know that if the hedge funds and mutual funds can't beat the market consistently, then why should I? There's a lot of people pissing and moaning in this thread having taking offense to RT's comment about the fools in Starbucks.

But casino games all have one thing in common -- the house always wins in the end. And these fools aren't the house.

If you want to "learn to trade" my suggestion is to put all your money in a shoebox and throw it into a dumpster. That's "trading" for most people. If you want to learn to invest, that's a lot simpler. And a lot more boring. That's how it should be. This isn't a game. It's not supposed to be fun.

Fri, 08/28/2009 - 09:16 | Link to Comment Gick
Gick's picture

If you invested all your money in late 1999 or October 2007, have you really returned 1% a month since then?

Fri, 08/28/2009 - 23:45 | Link to Comment Ghettomedic
Ghettomedic's picture

For simplicity, I will cite only the pertinent portion of my comment in reply:

"The market has, over 80 years, returned an average of 1% per month even taking into account everything from 1929 to 2009."

Fri, 08/28/2009 - 03:48 | Link to Comment Thurgy
Thurgy's picture

It's an art, not a science.  You'll find it takes a different kind of "smarts" to be one of the 3 of 10 of live through the first year of trading.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:58 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:58 | Link to Comment percolator
percolator's picture

Here's another newbie turned expert:

The 50-year-old from Naples, Fla., had limited investment knowledge but attended several seminars before starting to trade in May. So far, York said, she's up an average of 40% a month and is trading full time.

"It's the best job I've ever had, not just for the enjoyment but from the compensation standpoint," said York, who previously sold telecom equipment. "I've replaced a significant six-figure income."

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-trading25-2009aug25,0,2266089.story

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 21:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:58 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 16:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:38 | Link to Comment deadhead
deadhead's picture

i'll bet he never sold....."....it can't go lower, it just can't"

maybe some of these new daytraders should read about the daytraders during the dot com days of the late 90's.......

Fri, 08/28/2009 - 00:43 | Link to Comment Ghettomedic
Ghettomedic's picture

Or more appropriate, learn about gambling addictions. Because that's exactly the same type of thinking. "This machine is hot. It has to hit soon!"

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:00 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:17 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:48 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 21:25 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:03 | Link to Comment ratava
ratava's picture

sorry to break the news robo but the type of people you make fun of are a big part of overall ZH audience (ok the upper tier of them who make it past the mainstream bullshit and newbie trapping "learning" sites)

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:05 | Link to Comment Gick
Gick's picture

Zero hedge is better than this crap article

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:08 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Hit a nerve, didn't it?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:11 | Link to Comment Gick
Gick's picture

Only jackasses make fun of newbie traders.

We were all clueless and learning once.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:15 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Not all new retail traders are so idiotically conspicuous. For people like that, it's about vanity and image (much like a Bluetooth headset). I'm waiting for Robo Trader to post WiFi jamming box tutorial that hits B/G/N and ruins their day for less than 20 dollars on your part.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:19 | Link to Comment Gick
Gick's picture

How many billions have you made?  Maybe you should focus more on your own trading and less on other people's.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:23 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

If I don't focus on what other people are doing, then I'm not doing my job.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:35 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

Let's not take the allegory to deep.

 

Fact-Shoe shine boys give stock tips at market tops. Happens every time, no?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:33 | Link to Comment capitalisa
capitalisa's picture

LOL!

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:07 | Link to Comment D.O.D.
D.O.D.'s picture

"For people like that, it's about vanity and image (much like a Bluetooth headset)"

Right, not at all a quality the avg Joe attributes to the avg Starbuck connoisseur. Nor would one think anyone in Los Angeles would have that kind of an attitdue about anything, much less at a Starbucks of all places. 

I really don't think it has anything to do with stocks, t-shirts, lap-tops or QID.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:07 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

OK, I doubt ROBO is making fun. He is just trying to warn you all... be aware of what you get yourself into :)

 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:11 | Link to Comment Gick
Gick's picture

Robo is saying that because some of them wear Affliction t-shirts they're unintelligent morons who are far inferior to him

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:14 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

if it takes some healthy sarcasm and finger pointing because everything else doesn't work, so be it.

Long term profits are "correlated" with good risk management rather than adrenaline and excitement of the herd. (and yeah, we all are part of the herd, it's just not all of us realise it.)

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:59 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:28 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Except that, none of THAT really means jack anymore.

That's why we're here.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:35 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:12 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:18 | Link to Comment Gick
Gick's picture

"It was all I could do but to stop from laughing out loud."

 

This is improper English.  The 'but' is extraneous.

 

Oh man now I'm about to laugh out loud myself!  What a moron!  Do they give any J6P a column on Zero Hedge these days?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:25 | Link to Comment zeta
zeta's picture

Going ad hominem against Robo on one particular word (which isn't even improper in the first place) just makes you look stupid.

When you don't have anything substantive to say, you should just shut your rotten mouth.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:13 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:17 | Link to Comment zeta
zeta's picture

My faves today: CIT, MBI, GNW

Seriously, you just can't go short when there are only 2 losers out of top 30 losers+gainers on the sp500.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:58 | Link to Comment ghostfaceinvestah
ghostfaceinvestah's picture

No way, ABK beat them all, up 46% today.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:18 | Link to Comment crzyhun
crzyhun's picture

Robo, It reminds me of the diner in Jersey, Ocean City circle, the rest proprieter was day trading while he was collecting the tabs. The year 1999.

Can the commercial to buy your own island be toooo far off.

If this was easy, there'd be more traders on the Forbe's 500 or now 250.

Nuf said!

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:20 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Hey RoboT; you know i like you man; but this is pure ad hominem; and IMHO; blue collars contribute more to this society we have than any paper-pushing WS assholes ( no offense to those who are on WS, but not assholes ). And if it wasn't for the moronic ( again not all, just the majority ) WS'ers this shit would not happen. You need a man who rides the garbage truck, you need an electrician, you need a cab-driver, you need construction workers; but you don't need someone who trades CDS or parks oil in tankers off-shore to ramp the price for his own personal gain. And " blue collars " who were fired due to WS assholes and their mistake have no other way out than to try and trade for a living. I know on WS money is in abundance; but in real life; its actually pretty hard to get some.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:32 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

No other way than gambling? Then why day trading? Because of the margin? Because of the "certainty" of outcome they seemingly possess? If gambling is the only way out then certainly there are better forms of it like Hold 'Em against Freshman and Sophmores in college. 

No trader has a career without a blowup at some point, but the unsophisticated day trader has nothing to fall back on, no other source of income once that blow up happens (and I am willing to bet the Latte Trader thinks they've diversified enough without any thought to correllation of the names they're buying.)

Trading as a long term career is a fool's game if you're using your own capital.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

i didnt think it was possible; but you have managed to miss all the points i have stated in my post. It is not about fucking around trading stocks; its about disparity; something many of you WS assholes know nothing about. Try eat a CDS or make a bond design your car so its safe to drive.

 

Yeah, keep spewing your bullshit; trading paper is not a job; and i dont fucking care how you picture it; and it is their free will to do with their money what they want; not yours.

To state my case even further; blatant trading and manipulation of basic commodities like oil or corn is not a fucking job; but a parasitic form of exploitation of other peoples hard work for your own personal gain. The point of life is not having enough money to buy 2000/g blow.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:48 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

So why are you then encouraging blue collar types to participate in "non-work" when you hold "real-work" in such high esteem? Are all your ethics as pliable as a Chinese gymnast? 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:53 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

because, sadly, 23 trillion dollars went to WS to trade more paper and not to main street to create job and actually PRODUCE things. it is not double ethics you moron, it is reality. Try opening a facility which would produce toothpicks or synthetic leather or try setting up a firm which would distribute energy. Yeah; tough luck asshole; there is virtually 0 chance you'll get the money you need for your operation; but when it comes to couple of thousand WS fuck-ups there is no problem whatsoever to give them 23 trillion dollars to fuck up things some more.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:59 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

So if slop is going to be offered, everyone should act like a pig?

And you're describing political capture destroying entrepenuership, which still doesn't resolve why you're endorsing people you respect to engage in something you disrespect. 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:02 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

are you illiterate or do you suffer from dyslexia ? THERE IS NOTHING ELSE THAT THEY CAN DO TO SUPPORT THEMSELVES. Do you get that; or is your bubble sealed so hard you don't understand that this is not Platonic space we live in ? Do i need to go further or is this enough for you.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:12 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

If that's the only way they can fathom to support themselves then they suffer from a surprising lack of creativity (especially if gambling is the only thing they can conceive of, especially daytrading equities.) which is probably why they are unemployed now.

I don't know how you're missing the obvious problems and ethical consequences of invoking "only choice to survive" as a cause to do something risky and in lieu of something more productive, which you've already stated as being something you respect. 

 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

which is probably why they are unemployed now.

No, fuck-face; they are un-employed because your WS  buddies fucked things up; bought the Congress and installed their puppet into the WH. THATS WHY THEY ARE UNEMPLOYED. Shove your spin where the sun doesn't shine.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:28 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:33 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Even on a sinking ship, there are subsets of rats; Those that are unaware that the ship is sinking, those that know it is but are too far down to get out, those that are aware but can't swim, those that are aware and can swim but haven't jumped,those that make a break for the cheese and hardtack, those that actually make it into the water and drown, those that hide in the lifeboats and make it back to shore, and those that are watching from shore as they wonder why any rat would get on a ship in the first place.

You're the rat gnawing at the crew's ankles for running the ship aground while encouraging the other rats to jump in the water because they can't be any less seaworthy than the crew and ship.

 

It's funny how you think I'm Wall Street. I play for another team.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:37 | Link to Comment capitalisa
capitalisa's picture

It was interesting to read this thread, watching as Cheeky continues to give lucid explanations to one who does not understand.  I'm with you, Cheeky, and forget this guy.  He isn't capable of understanding.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 21:47 | Link to Comment Sqworl
Sqworl's picture

ding ding ding ding

 

(grabs popcorn)

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:22 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:31 | Link to Comment gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

RECO that post!

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Gick
Gick's picture

Construction workers, skateboarders and other sorts of "retail traders" can't destroy the economy any worse than hotshot supertrader experts have.

Fri, 08/28/2009 - 00:45 | Link to Comment Ghettomedic
Ghettomedic's picture

No, but they can destroy themselves and then piss and moan to the government about how reform is needed to prevent their own stupidity (reference the populist backlash against 3x leveraged ETFs for further proof of this).

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:29 | Link to Comment MurryRothbard
MurryRothbard's picture

Pros don't care what kids are doing with a 2k account. Robo is what's wrong

with this town. Enjoy the heat.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:43 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Depends on what the Pros job is. Again, if you aren't following what the lowest common denominator is doing, you're missing part of the big picture. Case in point; Subprime Lending. Why should a REIT analyst care about what unemployed people are doing when purchasing a home to "flip" it after losing their job?

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:33 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

No intention of hurting anyone's feelings.

Just trying to make a point that I doubt seriously that the market is going to go down any time soon when the retail public is now starting to enter the market in droves.

After the Dot.Bomb collapse, these people all but disappeared.  They were not even absent during the 2003-2007 run.  But now the public is now returning to playing in the market, so that in itself should serve as ample warning to those who are short.

Eventually, the public will be participating in a big way, it will be the subject of most chatter at cocktail parties.  That will be the time to start thinking about going short.

 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:43 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:20 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:53 | Link to Comment bonddude
bonddude's picture

Like I said above, the correlation between average Joe's interest in trading and market tops is well understood. It's that simple. Maybe I'll get called a F#CK FACE but then I haven't been up all night on an absinthe binge.

CHEERS !

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:59 | Link to Comment Gilgamesh
Gilgamesh's picture

Anyone who can't laugh at themselves should be more worried about which High Blood Pressure pill to pick, than which stock.

 

Combining the Shoeshine Boy and Random Walk theories I would argue is a legitimate means of analysis in the current market, when fundamental and technical anlaysis have both failed.  I agree with Robot's premise today.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:40 | Link to Comment capitalisa
capitalisa's picture

Are you kidding?  The "public" either 1) isn't about to risk what retirement money they have left, or 2) only have a couple thousand left.  Not exactly seeing how the market continues up on that rationale. 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:58 | Link to Comment Daedal
Daedal's picture

What have you been smoking? Is this a Coffee shop in CA or in Amsterdam that you overheard these conversations?

"But now the public is now returning to playing in the market, so that in itself should serve as ample warning to those who are short."

What kind of buying power does this public you speak of have? A lot of public money is in mutual funds, which by their very nature (getting paid for management) will always be invested in the market... ok they'll go from current 10% cash to 5%, big deal. The rest of the 'public' already participated in the housing boom, remember? BTW, your logic, if you can call it that, places "poor, out of work blue collar investors" at "cocktail parties"?! Go buy another $7 coffee, and wake up!

Listen, Hobo, unless you want to break down constructively why the comments you overheard were asinine, your post is nothing more than digital masterbation -- Nobody cares about your inane self-gratifying babble. Stop polluting this site.

 

Fri, 08/28/2009 - 17:43 | Link to Comment Ruth
Ruth's picture

You should have laughed and gave them a zerohedge card, so they could atleast taken their bows for making it on zerohedge the next day.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:34 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:36 | Link to Comment MurryRothbard
MurryRothbard's picture

The more I think about this post the more it bugs me. If you're such

a hot shot Robo why don't you give them a little of your professional

advice and help, they're gonna need it. This business and town could do without guys like Robo.

 

 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:46 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:01 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:07 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:38 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:41 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:55 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

if you want your trades to work, you ve got to think for yourself. Otherwise the modern portfolio - asset allocation based on your risk tolerance is your best friend.

Giving tips is rather unprofessional and often could be unethical. 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:07 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

Giving tips is rather unprofessional and often could be unethical. (unless you give them in advance to preferred readers/clients)

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:19 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

I think the whole point is to not give any recommendations.

Just for fun I actually signed up with a guy who supposedly sends penny stock tips. Paid the initial fee and cancelled the service, got my fee back. But still receiving his emails and still no stock tip just a bunch of hold out tactics.

The stock market itself is a part of the new economy.

People are prepared to pay for anything that will promise them a good return.

Heck, there are palm reader and psychic stores everywhere and there used to be a psychic network. People pay for this crap and if there's a gullible idiot, there's someone willing to sell to the idiot.

Think of the traditional snake oil salesmen.

Remember that movie "tin men" anyone?

Selling to gullible people has a tradition in America (and anywhere else for that matter). Americans didn't invent the sales gimmick.

Today, Americans are being bombarded with ads to engage in stock trading, being a "beach bum" and having +4000% returns in a week or sooner. There's a google ad on this website doing just that.

What Americans aren't being told in the same ads is that the practice of trading comes with a risk. Is like when cigarettes where advertised as cool and even doctors smoked on billboards.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:36 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:52 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:57 | Link to Comment Daedal
Daedal's picture

Yo, Anonymous, did you ever read ZH's manifesto? You know, the whole thing about the message being important and not where the message is coming from? Content over personality? Robotrader did the exact opposite. Instead of explaining the fallacy of the ideas he overheard, he denigrated the ideas solely based on who was saying them.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:56 | Link to Comment Daedal
Daedal's picture

double post.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:54 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:17 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:04 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:32 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:54 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

I'm not putting too much into this. Business is business and if someone spends their day at Starbucks trading stocks, hanging with friends and discussing the economy and the market etc then so be it. What do I know. Some of them might have had a better run since March then myself. My investment strategy is pretty conservative and I am old fashioned and believe in diversification as in stocks, bonds, gold and land.

Sure there's a huge upside and downside potential in the stock market every day. If you're on the right side of the trade. Hindsight is 20/20. Last year's crash came as much as a surprise as this years run. Only thing it has amplified for me is just how corrupt and manipulated the markets are. I trade and rarely leave money on the table unless I know who is who in the company and when insiders are buying or selling. Other than that, the stock market has been a casino for many years if not always.

So these people are meeting at Starbucks to do their trading?

Must be good business for Starbucks. Maybe that's a stock worth owning?

 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 17:57 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

Robo, please ignore 'em - must be blogo /  media wars. Their replies seem to be coordinated and probability of such an event to be random is rather.... small.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:08 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

Robo, please ignore 'em - must be blogo /  media wars. Their replies seem to be coordinated and probability of such an event to be random is rather.... small.

WTF is wrong with you man; yes, everyone here can prove you that I'm a PR person for MSM. You're the equivalent of those morons who think that criticizing Obama is racist; you just  transform the mechanics here and say that everyone who dare stand with " blue collars" must be MSM fans. Grow the fuck up; and learn that this is not about attacking Robo but the silly idea that blue collars are "un-intelligent" enough, or " un-worthy " to step into the holly land of douches; THE MARKET.



Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:19 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Unworthy? No. Unintelligent? No.

Unaware of self, situation and surroundings. Yes.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:42 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

CB, You are taking it way too personal. It wasn't about anyone being unworthy, his post is about people getting into something with little understanding of potential risks involved. I was myself one of those kids back in 01, fortunately I was wise enough to gamble only 20% of my savings rather than going for a margin and the sky.

When I see an exited day trader screaming profits, I laugh myself. It is not because I believe I am above or a pro. It's because I can relate, I ve been there and I am aware that nothing but a huge loss will teach those kids to use breaks. Unfortunately, most of them after their losses will pull out for a while and will miss the upside. (or downside if they are perma bears. ) 

 

As of blog wars, just look at all of those anon replies.... ok maybe I was off, of maybe I ve typed it on purpose... so you could take a chill pill or two.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:53 | Link to Comment Cheeky Bastard
Cheeky Bastard's picture

his post is about people getting into something with little understanding of potential risks involved.

 

Free will my friend; free will; they will suffer the consequence of their action ( either good or bad ) UNLIKE WS; the will either make some mula or loss some mula; and; that in my opinion is a brave thing; knowing that you might lose money

 

And, no this is not personal to me; it is the fact that 99% of my employees are " blue collar " ( construction workers; engeneers etc ) and i know from a personal experience how hard they have to work. And i respect that and i will defend them till the day i die; and i wont allow for no one to insult them.

And to call someone " an un-employed bums " is disrespectful; and particularly dangerous, cause you can be one of those "un-employed bums ". Modesty does wonders my friend. We are all the same no matter what; and to insult people just because they have an un-orthodox way of doing something; or lack the funds to  do it " the right " way is just plain stupid. I like RoboT, and read all his articles; but this one just stepped over the line.

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:00 | Link to Comment E Thomas St.
E Thomas St.'s picture

Do they really think or know they might lose money? Desperation does awful things to risk perception. There's a suttle difference between "I can lose all my money" and "I can afford to lose all my money" and the greener or more desperate you are, the less weight the former has.

 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 19:10 | Link to Comment Comrade de Chaos
Comrade de Chaos's picture

CB: However if you have been in his shoes, the reason for calling them un-employed bums is much more obvious. It is not about disrespect, it's about your frustration knowing that trying to talk any sense into them is futile. So they only hope is to piss them off and draw their attention. 

If you trying to do a diligent job as an investment advisor, it is a hell right now. The same customers who you saved during the decline by keeping high cash positions, getting rid of junk and keeping them invested in high quality assets are calling you and demanding to be invested in financials, RE, etc just because their upside was not as insane as of their neighbor. Not that they realize that their neighbor has probably overstated his "success."

Of cause the above holds only if you are not a MER/GS broker. :) No pun intended but they often are encouraged not to ... and your compensation depends on not giving ...

 

p.s. PEACE? 

 

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:40 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 20:24 | Link to Comment Anonymous
Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:33 | Link to Comment ratava
ratava's picture

you are wrong, if he talks shit about retail traders on a blog read by retail traders, the retail traders are gonna get upset

 

no conspiracy required

Thu, 08/27/2009 - 18:24 | Link to Comment pooplagrande
pooplagrande's picture

Skateboarding is like day trading man...

You ride the cement wave until you pop a gnarly backside air...then you bail and you profit big time....dude.

(or until your hand slips, you smash your collarbone on the curb and crack your head open on a margin call)

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