Calpers and Risk: Together Forever?

Leo Kolivakis's picture

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
kit roane's picture

Hello all,

Very appreciative of the pickup and the link, but could you not paste the entire article next time? 

Best regards,


Problem Is's picture

Nice Shot of the CalPERS Opulent HQ, Leo
Next time tell your guy to photograph from across the street so ZH readers can see the true scale of the extravagant wasteful pensioner and tax payer funds blown by the CalPERS douche bag directors...

With all the empty office space in downtown Sac... that building is the last thing that needed to be built...

Unless lavish penthouse director floors are a must for the west coast wannabe Jamie and Lloyd crowd...

thirtycaliber's picture


Muir's picture

Leo, please elaborate.

"Large pension funds like Calpers, CalSTRS, the Caisse and CPPIB need to rethink their entire approach to mitigating downside risk. The focus should primarily be on strategic asset allocation, with enough wiggle room to make opportunistic tactical decisions when markets shift abruptly."


Spell it out, should pension funds, engage in short selling, FX, exactly what?


IQ 145's picture

 Yes, the comment is ridiculous. It calls for better human beings; and the horse has already left the barn.

Leo Kolivakis's picture

All of the above & more, including buying protection when they need to (simple option strategies) or increasing their government fixed income holdings when conditions warrant. The size of these large pension funds is a hindrance, but they can do a lot more to protect against downside risk.

pitz's picture

Can they really?  I haven't seen any evidence of that.  Pension funds have no business whatsoever in derivatives, options, or anything other than simple indexxed long positions in stocks and bonds.  Nor do they have any business paying their senior managers more than $150-$200k/year.  Bottom line is that there's no free lunch out there ("protection" against downside comes at a huge cost!), and paying for a fleet of managers and analysts delivers no value whatsoever. 

Trying to hide out in fixed income is a disasterous strategy as well, and actually hurts the economy during downturns, when the markets should be naturally rationing credit to the public sector, to re-build the private sector (after all, who pays the bills and generates the wealth that pays these pensions!). 

The size of these public pension plans and the unelected nature of their managers and leaders have usurped democracy and accountability, creating dictatorships that have the ability to bind plan beneficiaries, and even taxpayers, to the decision making of a few chosen ones.   For this reason alone, public pension plans including the CPP should be outlawed. 

IQ 145's picture

 "All of the above and more--" Oh boy wouldn't it be something to see the little civil servants speculating in the FX market ! What a spectacle that would make. Might as well send a six year old out to play on the freeway on her tricycle.

Edmon Plume's picture

"But one thing 2008 taught pension fund managers was that asset class correlations are notoriously unstable, especially in a liquidity crisis..."

Did it?  Did they learn anything?  If something is unstable enough to be notorious for it, no teaching should be necessary.

Not that it matters.  Pensions are a microcosm of TBTFs.  If the risks pay off, they reward management with the upside.  If the risks lose, they stick taxpayers with the bill, at least insofar as calpers is concerned.

IQ 145's picture

 If you're tempted to believe human beings are an intelligent life form, all you need to do is look at Calpers. At the same time it's a very sick joke, it's also very serious.

Rainman's picture

Good thoughts, Leo.

One unmentioned area is the supersonic growth in benefit outlays by the State of CA and municipalities. For the State, the liability side has grown 2000% in the past decade. Municipalities, primarily Counties, have granted similar upgrades in benefits. The result is they are doomed to carrying an unfunded balance due to some cases amounting to an entire year of municipal operating revenues. The $600 million bill CalPers sent to the State is an absolute hoax, especially when compared to the total unfunded by the local governments.

The State legislators are once again in budget stalemate for this FY......GOP refuses the tax increase, the Dems refuse the cuts. Looks like they will be breaking out the IOUs again by year's end.

Leo Kolivakis's picture


California is burning, financially speaking. They have got to take control of spending and reform pensions or risk getting sucked into a lost decade. Thanks for commenting.

IQ 145's picture

 Nobody is going to take control of anything; the lost decade started in 2008; pass the popcorn, please.

pitz's picture

2008?  Try more like 2000.  And its 2 decades, not just one. 

the grateful unemployed's picture

sure the market is a casino, the longer you remain invested the more likely it is that you lose everything. (some people have never stopped to consider what a casino is, a business in it for the long haul)

the problem for casinos is their overhead, literally, which is why there is so much opposition to the new online gambling regulation bill. the stock market analogy was the move to online trading, and electronic exchanges. the casinos business plan is to cover expenses, and when expenses fall the casino's revenues fall as well. the casino isn't a profit driven business model. is there a correlation between more efficent trading, lower spreads, and the viability and market cap of the stock market? probably

Magua's picture

Assuming that equities make up half the average pension, bonds 20% and hedge/private equity 30% - here are a couple scenarios.

Equities up 5%, bonds up 5%, hedge/private up 9% - Total return = 6%

Equities up 0%, bonds up 7%, hedge/private up 8% - Total return = 4%

If equities return 0% for the next 10 years, then many pensions and endowments are nearly 50% underfunded


pitz's picture

Bonds could have negative returns over the next decade as well.  Don't discount that scenario.  If inflation picks up into the 5-10% range, stocks could tick up at 15-20%/annum, while bonds could lose 5-10% of their value every year. 

The fad of trying to liability match (immunize) everything in pension-land, over the past decade, may very well backfire, especially as the value of those long-term bonds simply melt away.  What's a 30-year US t-bond worth if interest rates go to 15%?  20 cents on the dollar?

islander's picture

We are in a depression right now. Stop dressing up this farting mud dripping pig we call an economy. Its embarrassing on your part Leo.

Leo Kolivakis's picture

So why don't we all slice our wrists before Armageddon? The only depressing thing is reading all the skewed negative views on ZH which are primarily tilted to the "world is fucked" scenario. We all need a little more balance, including me. There is no black & white. Growth rates are decelerating, but we are not in a Depression.

Boilermaker's picture

Actually, Leo, we are fucked.  I'm fucked, you're fucked, the boomers are fucked, Gen XYZ are fucked.  The question is, are we going to absolutely cornhole future generations so that you can retire on a beach or are we going to be decent human beings and suck it up.  I already know your position, sadly.

IQ 145's picture

 Why don't we all get 100% into Silver bullion; it's more fun than slicing your wrist. Tilted to the "world is fucked" scenario---Leo, the world is fucked. We all need a little more balance;---naw, we just need to buy more Chinese Solar Panel manufacturers.

Muir's picture

It restates the negativeness of the universe. The hideous lonely emptiness of existence. Nothingness. The predicament of Man forced to live in a barren, Godless eternity like a tiny flame flickering in an immense void with nothing but waste, horror and degradation, forming a useless bleak straitjacket in a black absurd cosmos.

Muir's picture

Ehh, that was the Museum Girl Leo, not me.

Magua's picture

If Bill Gross is right, bonds and equities will return about 5% for the next ten years at best. If you figure that hedge funds and private equity in the new reduced leverage world returns 9%, once they stop producing losses currently, then the average pension/retirement fund is looking at a 6% return on investments if all goes right. Most pensions are closer to assuming 8%.


Can you even imagine what will happen when people find out their currently underfunded pension plans are actually underfunded by another 25% or worse.


What if Gross is wrong and equites are flat for the next ten years? Japan has faced 20 years of flat to down equity prices.

ZackAttack's picture

Before, McKinley says, information tended to be stove-piped, meaning the retirement system's fixed income department was selling off mortgages even as the real estate department was shoveling money into the sector.

That's so fucking dumb, their losses should be considered evolution in action. Then they compounded it by sitting tight and taking a bear market up the chute on these dumb buys. You cannot, simply cannot, take The Big Loss.

Another argument for firing every one of these dumbfucks, doing dead-simple index allocations and letting the computers run it for 5 bp a year. Somebody in California's legislature needs to be looking hard at why they aren't doing this.


it would be tempting for Calpers to double down.

Yes, perhaps even California officials recognize that a Martingale only works if you have infinite cash at your disposal.


IQ 145's picture

 State employees, with all that that implies, playing with other peoples money. Why they don't run it with a computer ? It's another fricken civil service swamp; it's very very important that there's someplace to employ Joe Schmoe's semi-literate brother in law.

Problem Is's picture

" Why they don't run it with a computer ?"

State Computer Purchase Failures
Calif has a long history of fuck ups when it comes to over priced purchases, wrong equipment, poor installations and computer system failures. DMV was the latest...

Betting on the State of Cali to effectively buy a major computer system is like betting on the SEC to win a court case...

nmewn's picture

"Large pension funds like Calpers, CalSTRS, the Caisse and CPPIB need to rethink their entire approach to mitigating downside risk."

Couldn't agree more...and coming out of left field, some thoughts.

It's high time to reorganize state/federal employee pension plans and fold them into Social Security. And I include presidents, congressmen and senators in the proposal.

This benefits society in several ways.

1) It would provide disincentive to those who would abuse trust...kind of like the Fed taking away the interest rate punch bowl.

2) It would allow true price discovery of the assets currently being chased by these large pools of fiat paper.

3) It would begin to restore trust in a social contract between government, the courts and taxpayers as it has evolved into an apparent caste system.

4) It would firm up Social Security obligations to current beneficiaries and those who have had their money stolen from them for all these years who are now approaching retirement.

5) It would allow time for proper reflection on an equitable way, for all concerned, to end the ponzi of Social Security.

Thoughts Leo?




Leo Kolivakis's picture

At one level, I agree with you that we need to roll up city and municipals plans, most of which are heavily underfunded, but why into SS? Not sure about that....who will be managing this mega fund? Too much money & power concentrated in the hands of few is a recipe for disaster.

nmewn's picture

We know SS is toast. There is no money in that ponzi so I guess I would disagree as to the mega part...the money put in there is long gone it is now only a "clearing house" for tax reciepts & payments.

We know we need to decelerate the payroll taxes going into SS and at some point stop it altogether and let the income earner provide for themselves through their own investments with the money that used to go into it.

What got me going on this tangent were remarks by Alan Simpson & the minority leader yesterday about extending retirement age to 70 and trimming benefits to delay (again) the day of reckoning with SS.

Which got me pissed. In other words Joe Sixpack is screwed (again) and government employees will be shitin in tall cotton (again). I'm sayin NO! I'm sayin HELL NO!

Look, I've known since I was 20yrs. old I would never see a dime of what I paid in at the point of a gun (I'm 50 now) this is not about me, I've made/making other arrangements.

This is about fairness & stopping the extortion of future generations. And there is a pile of money sitting over in the government kitty that can help defray the costs of transitioning away from this system...and in my view it is only proper that the government employee's who I paid via OTHER taxes for their wages, vacation, healthcare AND RETIREMENT be lumped into the same retirement bucket.

The only exception for a government retirement would be for the military. And no, I'm not a vet.

As to who would administer the wind down program I don't know. The trust has evaporated on alot of levels.

poorold's picture


"Facing billions in unfunded liabilities and increasing anger from California taxpayers who are ultimately stuck with the bill, it would be tempting for Calpers to double down."

Says it all really...

I believe the current status of things is as follows:

1. The private sector has retrenched and is managing to operate profitably ('cept of course it took buckets of make-believe money to keep the auto and financial sectors looking alive.)

2. The private sector, though it will undoubtedly exhibit signs of health, is faced with its "profits" being confiscated to support an evergrowing public sector.

3. The public entitlements are growing out of control in 2 segments--the number of people receiving entitlements and the number of entitlement programs.

Given the public sector's cannibalization of the private sector, it is simply not possible for any entity (read pensions here) to lay claim to future profits of the private sector other than the Government.

Calpers and every other pension fund is dead.  They just haven't acknowledged it yet.

exportbank's picture

Pension Funds are just play things for their managers (paid very well to risk value). I haven't seen one anywhere that wouldn't be better off just buying government guaranteed fixed income instruments. Chasing yield over decades is a dangerous game and the risk generally is never born by the fund manger or the plan member but by the taxpayer. Pensions need to be fully funded from the get-go and not pretend on an impossible to achieve 8% annual return every year for 25-years. Pensions are the most obvious case of actuarial accounting fraud to foist a gigantic problem onto the taxpayer. 

Boilermaker's picture

Actually, wouldn't they have been better just keeping it in a passbook?

IQ 145's picture

 Correct. It's a shame they can't sue the fund managers.

sangell's picture

There seems to be a ( worrying?) trend for states to use their public employees pension funds for bridge loans to help the legislatures balance their budgets.

Calling state debt an asset able to meet pension obligations seems at least as risky as any hedge fund investments.

knukles's picture

Mayhaps CalPers "call" on the treasury of the California Republic has something to do with their assumed risk profile; aka, a Moral Hazard needs addressing.

Nihilarian's picture

I think you embedded the wrong video. Nothing that came out of his mouth sounded bullish to me.

Leo Kolivakis's picture

I got to throw you perma-bears a bone once in a while. :)

(I edited to make it clear, depression is not my scenario)

Boilermaker's picture

Nobody is a perma-bear, per se.  We just see the numbers for what they are.  They are unmanageable, unsustainable, and completely unserviceable.

So, the glass isn't half empty of half full.  It's just twice as big as it needs to be.  Stick with the data and leave the My Little Pony play time to the 10 year olds.

Grand Supercycle's picture


On May 4th I called the end of the March 2009 bear market rally.

The proprietary indicators I use in my technical analysis can identify trend changes before they occur.

homersimpson's picture

Great article (no joke). However, if only your rationale to "buy the dips" were as thoughtful and reasoned...