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Cazenove Strategist Discusses PPT And POMO Interventions To Keep Markets Ramping Higher

Tyler Durden's picture


CNBC (the infinitely more credible European edition) has run a stunning interview with Cazenove technical strategist Robin Griffiths in which the banker discusses such taboo items as the Plunge Protection Team's intervention in the market for the month of September in a last ditch effort to keep stocks from tumbling following the horrendous August performance. First Griffiths dissects POMO: "One of the reasons [for the surge] is POMO: what happens is the Fed buys Treasurys off the banks, the banks put the money into the market...That amount of money turns the algorithms up, then all the algo trading hits the market. Real life investment managers are not doing this buying. They know that equities are for losers." And the stunner: "The S&P is being effectively goosed up by the Plunge Protection Team - they can keep doing this for a little bit longer... But according to me the April high will not of those Keynesian stimuli did not work." As for bonds: "There is an old saying, don't buy the Fed - yields will go down. Even now you should be buying bonds and not equities. The bubbles never burst when wiseheads in the media tell you it's a bubble that's gonna burst, they burst when they've given up on that and tell you this time it's different."

h/t London Dude Trader


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Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:11 | Link to Comment TheGreatPonzi
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No surprise here. But it's quite a shock to see it discussed in broad daylight.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:28 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

Nobody watches CNBC anymore :)

The only way they would get some viewers these days would be if they would replace the advertisings by porn movies.


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:00 | Link to Comment Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

Correction: nobody watches US CNBC anymore, populated as it is by cheerleaders and sock puppets. As Tyler points out, the European edition still has some credible guests, comments and even the occasional presenter. Although the new girl interviewing Robin Griffiths is rude and lacking in basic knowledge.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:22 | Link to Comment traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Rick Santelli this morning said "bought and paid for, bought and paid for" when asked to discuss how/why the rally had occurred this September. In my tin-foil hat mentality, I took that he was referencing the Fed/POMO, but that was as close as he could come to discussing it...

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:52 | Link to Comment whatsinaname
whatsinaname's picture

Bovespa & Sensex crowd will get sheared as well - dont buy that BS.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:10 | Link to Comment BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

I'm pretty sure I'm like the main stream media in that this trend won't change until I get used to it and look away. 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:11 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

I like this guy. The rest of the pundits are somewhere in Egypt floating down the river which shall not be named.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:31 | Link to Comment etrader
etrader's picture

Mr Griffiths was at HSBC for years, he knows the score on how things work.

He's doing a King world news interview ( friends of ZH )this week along with Hugh Hendry

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:35 | Link to Comment jswede
jswede's picture

thanks etrader

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 14:50 | Link to Comment ThreeTrees
ThreeTrees's picture

Definitely gonna be listening to that.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:13 | Link to Comment rapacious rachel wants to know (not verified)
Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:45 | Link to Comment ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Yup. Bonds and the Dollar are the real bubbles. And gold is the anti-bubble.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:15 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

They just 'discuss' POMO now as if it wasn't pure evil, nevermind a desperate last gasp.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:27 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

It's more surprising to me that alot of these experts are talking about the endgame of the dollar and the US/Western economy, but then going on to predict what markets will be good investments in the event of SHingTF.

Wouldn't a collapse create totally unpredictable conditions? How the hell are you gonna know what is a good investment strategy after the US becomes a pirate nation with a gigantic military and no money? Brazil is gonna be robbed blind, in all likelihood. Where do you invest your money in pirate world? Goddamnit.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:40 | Link to Comment packman
packman's picture

Where do you invest your money in pirate world?

Simple - what does everyone associate with pirates' treasure?  (Hint: usually it's not a chest full of stock certificates.)

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:57 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

Well said. You also need a good supply of cutlasses and cannons for when the pirates come for you treasure, too #2ndAmendment 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:28 | Link to Comment Dead Cat Bounce
Dead Cat Bounce's picture

You can always invest in us cats, as we are good at catching rats and mice, and when Mad Max comes down, you are going to need as many of us as you can get!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:38 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Haz goldz beeechez?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:15 | Link to Comment barkingbill
barkingbill's picture

this is interesting i hear this opinion now and then. but how will it work? pratically speaking i mean, morally of course its wrong. but i mean practically, as a pirate nation?

how will we fund our pirating expeditions? if the dollar is collapsing won't that put pressure on our military adventures as well? what about what other countries can do selling our bonds etc...

im not so sure that an economic collapse wont just mean that we have to give up the pirate adventures that we have now undertaken...

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:16 | Link to Comment fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

"Where do you invest your money in pirate world?"


Good question.  Where pirates do.  Gold and silver buried at a hidden location.  You think I'm joking?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:34 | Link to Comment Dead Cat Bounce
Dead Cat Bounce's picture

Golden Mice and Emerods bitchez!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:41 | Link to Comment VWbug
VWbug's picture

note to self: when TSHTF head for fiftybagger's place


actually, why wait??

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:01 | Link to Comment truont
truont's picture

Arrrrrrrr!  I love me pieces of eight!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:42 | Link to Comment Midas
Midas's picture

I wasn't looking forward to the collapse, but with a phrase like "pirate nation with a gigantic military and no money" you make it sound like fun.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:47 | Link to Comment ArrestBobRubin
ArrestBobRubin's picture

Gold. Silver. Palladium. PM Miner shares. This is no drill!

Tue, 09/28/2010 - 00:55 | Link to Comment slvrizgold
slvrizgold's picture

You're damn straight.  This ain't no drill!  Silver $30 by year end bitches and gold $1650 so Sinclair wins his bet (no takers).   Even then that would be *only* 55:1 silver:gold ratio...  STILL too high imo.   Ever notice how SHINY a mint fresh silver bullion coin is?  I think you could almost use it to burn a piece of wood on a sunny summer day, like when you were a kid and had the magnifying glass.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:15 | Link to Comment tunaman4u2
tunaman4u2's picture

CNBC & even Zerohedge have everybody all into gold, stocks whatever based upon more QE. We all know QE hasn't worked why "Rush" to do it again. I could see QE2 if we needed it but right now is not that time. We need to be A LOT worse than here to warrant QE. We've priced in QE3 at these levels with no need for QE2 yet! 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:09 | Link to Comment t0mmyBerg
t0mmyBerg's picture

We all know QE hasn't worked why "Rush" to do it again

An interesting question.  I personally think that Bernanke has devoted his life to this line of thinking and is now in a kind of trance where he just has to explore the boundary conditions of his theses and due to historical circumstances actually has the opportunity to do so.  Which brings me to the thought I wanted to put out there on the Monetary Endgame post but there are so many comments there it is pointless, so I will do it here instead.

All of the dollar destruction ideas sort of assume that QE.x is basically a done deal, and with good reason - if you read the Fed Statement from last Tuesday ( it basically says that further QE is up next.  And this, along with the weak dollar it forces, probably suits the Administration agenda just fine so there is a confluence of interests.  But there is an election coming that is going to change the setup in DC.  Might that not change things such that Helicopter Ben wakes from his trance?  What if the conversation changes to something where new expectations prevail?  Where someone starts to question the inevitability and desirability of destroying the dollar and de facto defaulting through inflation? 

I understand that no matter who is in charge, there is a structurally political impossibility of doing the right things, or even the efficacious things, and I understand that western civilzation is saturated with debt, but rarely do the extreme scenarios unfold.  Just a thought.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:06 | Link to Comment ZakuKommander
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"change the setup in DC . . ." You speak as if a group of highly intelligent and economically astute individuals will take up residence in the Congress come January.  Heh.  

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 14:29 | Link to Comment t0mmyBerg
t0mmyBerg's picture

No.  Whatever your personal politics, the idea here is agnostic.  The point is that a new set of committee chairmen and women will be running things and calling their own hearings.  It is possible that a new group might ask different questions and result in a different oversight milieu than the current group.  In sucn an atmosphere, it is possible that pressure to reconsider the destruction of the dollar resulting from a stated or unstated policy of stealth default on the debt of the United States by attempting to inflate it away, might arise.  That is all.  As a trader, though I am personally wide open to the destruction of the republic meme and in fact have made all my money this year short equity indexes and in other trades correlated to that idea, I also have to question my own predispositions constantly and this thought occurred to me as one that is plausible.  Do you have an opinion on that?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:15 | Link to Comment Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Something tells me that Mr. Griffiths won't be appearing on the "B-cups and FOAD" show anytime soon.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:23 | Link to Comment Robslob
Robslob's picture

I can't believe I want to relocate to Europe so I can hear some form of truth in the media...

I love this country more now than before as I see what can happen when you get busy in life and forget to watch the very people you thought you trusted to do what is right.

In every end there is a new beggining and I am ready to rebuild and this surely means starting over as a country...we need honesty with each other before we can expect our government to follow OUR lead.

So it begins....

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:44 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Honesty with each other begins with honesty with one's self.  Most people delude themselves as CD often points out so have fun trying to get people to be honest as a group.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:27 | Link to Comment London Dude Trader
London Dude Trader's picture

Actually he's a regular guest on both CNBC Europe and Bloomberg TV, and always just as outspoken. 

As Tyler rightly mentioned, CNBC Europe (and CNBC Asia) are far more informative and less biased than CNBC in the US, with its crap being spewed forth daily by the GE propaganda machine's studios in NY/NJ for consumption by moronic US housewives and Joe Sixpacks. 


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:37 | Link to Comment Fur Trader
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Right on.  Watch CNBC Eurpoe 04:00 until 05:55, then sound off CNBC and sound on boring Canadian Business TV.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:00 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I'm starting to question if it's an American phenomenon - a TV station such as Fox News simply wouldn't fly over here, and CNBC are more impartial?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:48 | Link to Comment grunion
grunion's picture

I take offense to your characterizations of my fellow citizens. I will not set idly by while you carry on a wholesale trashing of working (and non-working) Americans.

Which puts you in that special group of people I would just love to meet personally.

But until that glorious moment comes to pass, I will just have to let, "Fuck off, you arrogant, selfish, egomaniac, turd merchant, eurotrash.

Try loving others as you so obviously love yourself. Jerk

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:35 | Link to Comment berated
berated's picture

Settly down, g. He wasn't calling ALL of us "moronic housewives" or "Joe 6-packs", only those who regularly watch CNBC (which, according to their ratings, is down to about 11,000 or so...).

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:10 | Link to Comment Freebird
Freebird's picture

Bang out of order. From recollection the Dude is an American working in London.....

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:18 | Link to Comment A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

Interesting - I imagine he'll be given a very good offer to take early retirement as a reward for his honesty...

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:30 | Link to Comment Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

let's hope he looks to the left and the right 5 times in a row before the crosses the street tonight or he might get runover by a white van...

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:21 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The bubble pop point may not have anything to do with market conditions since the Gubment, UN, even the Vatican says aliens are due to arrive and hover over major US cities by mid Oct. 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:30 | Link to Comment Fortress
Fortress's picture

Haha, what?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:52 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Oh you havent seen all the news flying over the weekend? UN appoints an ambassador to the aliens, Pope says he'll baptize the aliens, US top military officials on Wednesday to publicly announce existance of aliens and OH btw will arrive Oct 13th. Big flase flag coming people, to wipe the slates clean.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:12 | Link to Comment John McCloy
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You know sheep last month I was reflecting on all the lies and efforts by the elites to bring about globa l governance, the controlled media operations and the stunning admittance by a CIA official that " yes they did produce at least one fake Osama video" anf then I see how America and the rest of the world is just tired of the same old Muslim boogeyman creation attempts.
The access of information is preventing the lies from gaining much traction any longer and so I said now if even after 9/11 ten years most Americans simply are beginning to see these war expenditures are better used home and we are undoubtedly expanding unnecessary wars and now that Americans know that the Gulf of Tonkin incident never occured and it was seized as an excuse to war profiteer what is next.
So I asked myself this and laughed in internally and said " They have no tricks left up their sleeve that the public will swallow as motive and they would need a war of the world scenario"
And then it hit him me and I stopped laughing..the one event that could unify the entire globe and usher in global governance would be an Alien invasion. One currency , one globe and one people unified against the interstellar invaders.
I then reflected upon all the proof we have of advanced aircraft that cannot be terrestially confirmed and we all know either we are not alone or we possess secret aircraft not yet shown to the public. I have aske myself why with so much progress in technology are we stalled at jet aircraft?
The answer is oil and the globalists have no wish for this technology to become available since it undermines oil and energy interests. So they could stage an event using "alien" craft.
I also find it odd that only last month a book was published an highly publicized about military officials confirming the existance of UFOs.
Now I may have had a few too many bowls of black helicopter cereal but after everything I have witnessed the only unifying event after the masses are so adamantly repudiating globalization is Independence Day.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:40 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
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The idea isn't a new one, Alan Moore played on the same theme in Watchmen

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:15 | Link to Comment John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Well here are all the recent news items that pertain to this:

  The most powerful global unifier would be an Independence Day like scenario False Globe operation that would strike fear and create global unification against a common "fictitious enemy". We must admit at this point that UFOs undoubtedly exist and they are either extra terrestrial or secret defense aircraft. I have been trying to connect the dots and a few important news stories in the mainstream media has led me to believe that they are laying the ground work for even something as outlandish as this.

1) A few days ago the U.N. Appointed " space ambassador to greet alien visitors'

2)5 Days ago, "The Pope Says he would Baptize Aliens"

3)Just out today. U.S. & U.K. "Aliens have been buzzing around missile bases and deactivating nuclear weapons, according to a group of six Air Force officers and a UFO researcher"

4)Leslie Kean came out with a highly publicized by the Main Stream Media book last month discussing the confirmation by retired generals as to the existence of Aliens. And just out today."Best-selling author Leslie Kean will approach Congress, Obama on UFO disclosure"
5) Then we also had the highly publicized Chinese Airport closure due to UFO activity.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:51 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I just hope the aliens go after Justin Beiber and strike him from the records of human history.  Lady Gaga after that.  And I hope they don't take Howard Stern seriously for being the King of All Media and whack him first.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:35 | Link to Comment still kicking
still kicking's picture

There were also multiple reports of the 101'st and 81'st being put on higher alert and potentially activated for domestic disturbances this past weekend.

Tue, 09/28/2010 - 11:11 | Link to Comment ultarnerd
ultarnerd's picture

Actually if anyone here wants to know the best available theory for the possibility for warp drive technologies see my very neglected website If its not possible then forget the chances for anything like this being real as the odds become vastly less.
I just had a frend tell
me about this conspiracy theory where the government plans to scare people with aliens to get a everyone united leading to a greater world control and I didn't play much attention to him at the time.
But it makes sense they could try that.
It still strikes me odd that this theory actually works so well and is so simple that I sort of find it easier to believe there was some hidden conspiracy to keep the theory hidden, with the present nonsense theories about the universe starting from a single point without causality etc etc. And much is untestable so does not deserve to be called theory.This stuff is testable.

What it taught me is.The value of truth is more determined by the scale quality and duration of its marketing department than by its actual degree of intrinsic truth.Look at Churches.

What value has such truth if no one is payed to teach it.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:47 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

What better way than 'aliens' coming to tell us 'we' messed it all up, the benevolent leaders have been trying to show us 'the light' and theyve been doing their best benevolent work in our best interest only of course. But us insolent peasants just refuse to listen so now aliens must come and tell us we need 1 world govt, currency, set us straight on religion, C02 in the atmosphere, direct us to be slaves (we screwed up after all you know) all from the unquestionable 'higher intelligence'. Its a perfect ploy and of course most people will believe it all.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:52 | Link to Comment grunion
grunion's picture

Show me a live extraterrestrial and brother, I'll start believing all sorts of weird shit!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 19:00 | Link to Comment Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Think Obama in green makeup and silver jump suit.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:38 | Link to Comment Dead Cat Bounce
Dead Cat Bounce's picture

Are Aliens interested in us cats?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:47 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Yes, as finger snacks and to test recently repaired anal probes. :>)

This subject has legs. The problem is getting past all the disinformation and deliberate seeding of crazies into the small group of people who are seriously trying to research a subject that has been verboten for decades.

You're simply not of the "right" mind if you wish to discuss this subject. This "attitude" was deliberately infiltrated into the public meme through various psyops campaigns. Regardless of the subjects truth or not, the powers that be want a divided population. And this type of program is one of the many ways to accomplish this. 9/11 was another. And so on and so on and so on.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:27 | Link to Comment Minion
Minion's picture

One world government (for 1000 years time) was actually prophesied in a certain Book, coming after nations go to battle and a Presence comes with clouds, in the air, which temporarily unites the warring armies in self defense.

If you really get down to it, one world government is the only way to really solve our problems long term.  Unfortunately, one world religion is also necessary, and when mankind wields both government and religion, disaster is not far behind.  Are humans even capable of ruling themselves?  Diversity doesn't seem to work (Los Angeles, New York - very diverse and full of racial tension).  Xenophobia isn't any better. 

The most peaceful place I've ever been was the American South here just recently.  Everyone believed the same thing and despite two very different races, there was very little tension.  Their minds were set on a place beyond the clouds......... and fear of hellfire and eternal torment for breaking the peace!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:15 | Link to Comment Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

They are going to fire up project blue boom and set haarp on just the right frequency and everybody is going to be electronically drugged is all I can tell.

Fuck em. They aint got sufficiently advanced technology to make me believe in magic. I'll tin foil up and crank the stereo and rock out.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:42 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yes, and the ultimate weapon- Slim Whitmans 'Indian Love Song' CD's and good loudspeakers.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:39 | Link to Comment Dead Cat Bounce
Dead Cat Bounce's picture

Meow! Will I still get my cat food?!?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:07 | Link to Comment I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

Anyone notice how HAARP is pushing the hurricanes away from the east coast??  Saw this on tv this past weekend, have no idea if there is any truth to it.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:22 | Link to Comment FreeElectron
FreeElectron's picture

When CNBC talkers refer to "lots of cash on the sidelines that is ready to buy this market", should we think POMO?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:26 | Link to Comment truont
truont's picture

This is the first time I have heard someone put their neck out there on TV and just say it:  The FED is propping up the US Equities.

This guy has guts.  Most suspect this is happening, but would never admit it on TV.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:27 | Link to Comment rocker
rocker's picture

You will never see a guy like this on CNBC America.  Bernie is back on world too.  He is so funny and does his job.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:28 | Link to Comment London Dude Trader
London Dude Trader's picture

FYI Robin Griffiths is a regular guest on both CNBC Europe and Bloomberg TV, and always just as outspoken. 


As Tyler rightly mentioned, CNBC Europe (and CNBC Asia) are far more informative and less biased than CNBC in the US, with its crap being spewed forth daily by the GE propaganda machine's studios in NY/NJ for consumption by moronic US housewives and Joe Sixpacks. 


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:32 | Link to Comment Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Irish Car Bomb

Why Ireland is bailing out foreign banks

Robert Peston has a theory for why Ireland can’t bail in the sophisticated institutions which lent untold billions to the country’s beleaguered banks:

Take a look at the latest figures from the central bankers’ bank, the Bank for International Settlements, on just the exposure of overseas banks to Ireland (in other words, credit provided by pension funds, hedge funds and wealthy individuals would be on top of this).

Total foreign bank exposure to Ireland’s economy is $844bn, or five times the value of Ireland’s GDP or economic output. Of that, German and UK banks are Ireland’s biggest creditors, with €206bn and €224bn of exposure respectively.

To put it another way, German and British banks on their own have each extended credit to Ireland greater than Irish GDP. Which doesn’t sound altogether prudent, does it?

As for direct bank-to-bank lending, overseas banks have provided Ireland’s banks with €169bn of loans, which is also greater than Irish GDP.

Here’s the point: an economy as open and as dependent on foreign finance as Ireland’s cannot afford to alienate its creditors. If those overseas lenders asked for their money back now, Ireland’s recent fall back into a modest economic contraction could spiral into dark deep prolonged recession or even depression.

The implicit assumption here is that if the Irish government took away its backstop of Irish banks’ debts, there would be a mad dash for the exits, all of the banks’ creditors would refuse, overnight, to roll over any of their debts and the resultant liquidity crisis would make the Lehman collapse look positively modest.

It’s like there’s a whole new level to the famous adage: if you owe the bank $10 million, then you have a problem. If you owe the bank $10 billion, then the bank has a problem. But if you owe the banks $844 billion, then now the problem is back on you again, since at any time the banks can turn you into Iceland overnight.

I think the fear here is a very realistic one. In an ideal world, of course, the banks would understand the need for burdens to be shared and would also understand that staying invested in a healthy Ireland, even with a modest haircut on their original investment, is a much better outcome for all concerned than a mad panic and sovereign default with the debt of Irish banks falling in value to pennies on the dollar.

But we don’t live in an ideal world and the collective-action problems here are all but insurmountable: at the first whiff of a haircut, everybody’s going to want to be the first to bail out entirely. Ireland’s technocratic elite seems to understand that and so it’s unhappily bailing out its foreign lenders at 100 cents on the euro, even the government continues to slash spending domestically. It’s not fair, everybody knows that. But it might be unavoidable.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:31 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Understood nothing of what you tried to convey.

The banks cannot recall their debts. How is it the issue of Ireland?

And Iceland was a thoroughly thought plan to make Iceland a lot more richer than it used to be.

The good run hit its end. Nevertheless, Iceland got much richer in the process. Usually, this kind of plan is enacted on some third world country whose only existence justification is to be extorted by western powers. The Icelanders managed to enact it on western powers. This gave insight on the diplomatic relations and so other stuff.

Still, Iceland got extremely richer thanks to the plan.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:31 | Link to Comment Thomas
Thomas's picture

Show me a market--any market--that is not rigged, and I'll put some money there. As it stands, although gold looks rigged, the riggers appear to be losing so I will stay largely in that market.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:38 | Link to Comment compost_heap
compost_heap's picture

As outlined in the garynorth article, the new rallying cry for 2011: "Show me the gold" - stay tuned to a fed vault near you.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:04 | Link to Comment Cruel Aid
Cruel Aid's picture

Its rigged and pegged to the euro or some other non $ currency. It has been a reliable indicator for short term moves. When/if the Euro turns green, so does the S&P.

And no it is not that simple. 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:35 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I don't believe this guy.

I mean maybe 6 months or a year ago, I would have been cheer leading this guy all the way. But after years of cynical trolls, government agents, official announcements and white house public denials, along with nearly the entire universe of economists, investment bankers, pundits beating into me that this is all just tin foil hat conspiracy theory, I've capitulated and joined the patriotic side.

So I don't believe this guy. He can't be correct. I mean he just can't. I won't be able to emotionally survive another change of heart here guys. So I'm going to pull my nice warm blanket of denial around me and sleep through the storm.

Who's with me?

<sarcasm off> 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:39 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

Who's with you? Literally everyone, except for a few outliers who are vastly overrepresented on this site. Makes it a pleasure to be here, though.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:46 | Link to Comment willien1derland
willien1derland's picture

I am forwarding him my Obama 'Hope for Change' poster & t-shirt - If that doesn't work I will start sending anti-depressants - He needs to speak with Erin Burnett - she will set him straight!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:48 | Link to Comment packman
packman's picture

The Blue Pill does have it's appeal, doesn't it?


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:10 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

If you mean this one, I agree. In fact, it looks like it's being stuffed by the shovel full into the market on a daily basis.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:15 | Link to Comment packman
packman's picture

LOL - well yeah there's that one too.


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:05 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture


But if it lasts more than 4 hours....

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:11 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

But if it lasts more than 4 hours.... your central banker.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:59 | Link to Comment Dead Cat Bounce
Dead Cat Bounce's picture

Surely cat steriods is a perfectly better alternative?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:29 | Link to Comment Zexe
Zexe's picture

It is far better and healthier to live in an imaginary world you like than knowing the truth. Most of the time, you can't handle the truth.


What's more, shouldn't you people on ZH care for the greater good? And that good right now is to push equities and everyone's wealth a little bit higher so maybe we can start this ponzi engine over again....because be that as it may, this system we live in is the best so far and provides food for most of the people.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:42 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

If all it's about is food on the table, you make a good case. Of course, it's about far more than that.

What these bastards are really saying is that I should be grateful I have a roof over my head and 3 squares a day. And that my neighbor does as well. And I should be delighted that I have my own personal hamster wheel. Hell, in third world countries, they're packed three or four to a hamster wheel.

So what if a small minority of the population are sociopaths and will kill hundreds of thousands in resource, power and control wars as long as I get my prime time TV and McDonald's quarter pound with cheese. Yup, so sorry for being a pest. I'll make it up to them by greasing my own anal track with land-o-lakes butter.

OK, I'm ready. Please be gentle mighty master.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:58 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Wonderfully stated.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:29 | Link to Comment Zexe
Zexe's picture

A couple of decades back people considered themselves lucky to have food to eat , a roof over their heads and at least some form of security where your neighbour does not hit you in the head....

You lucky bastard you take these for granted now, god forbid we have your dooms day scenario , i will be happy to see you then srambling for food and having your sorry ass beaten by the strongest..... you are pitiful

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:45 | Link to Comment still kicking
still kicking's picture

you mean the peasants right?  Because I assure the elite did not live that way you pompous jackass.  No one here takes this for granted but we demand better than overlords selling us short every damn time they can so they can simply pad the wallet a little more. 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:58 | Link to Comment Zexe
Zexe's picture

Man, you really need to get out your fantasy world where all people are equal. Havent you learned yet that people are animals and there will always be rulers and slaves, under different names. Yes, you are a slave and there are some people who rule over your life. But it s all natural, if you were in their place you wud do the same. Of course you can always challenge them but the truth is you are the weak and they are the strong, so you will continue to be a slave. Just like many others. It s the struggle for power that will never end.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 14:06 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Stop struggling and learn to love your chains. OK.

So how are you doing with your own personal bondage? Or are you not of the slave class, but instead a master yourself?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 14:23 | Link to Comment Zexe
Zexe's picture

I am a slave myself . Trying to become a ruler. Will i manage to pull it off? Chances are i wont, luck plays a big role here. It is a long discussion here, i live in an ex comunist country and some things are more apparent to me than to you i guess....when comunism failed and capitalism replaced it life changed for the better for most of the people. But guess what, those who ruled back in comunism , are the mentors and fathers of those who rule now. Two different systems, same rulers, same slaves. Because they are the strong and the rest are the weak. Its just natural.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:43 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

That's incorrect because the system depends on exponential growth, which is impossible to maintain in a finite system (which the Earth is). Read The Limits of Growth, or visit

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:47 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

..the system depends on exponential growth, which is impossible to maintain in a finite system...

Thus capitalism is a sociopaths wet dream. Something for nothing and the chicks are free. 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:40 | Link to Comment Nihilarian
Nihilarian's picture

Thus capitalism is a sociopaths wet dream. Something for nothing and the chicks are free


Ahem, last I checked, capitalism is used to elevate the process of allocating limited resources towards the greatest efficiency. 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:54 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

That's the cover story that most of us are told and believe. And the reason there's an endless pool of suckers.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 17:44 | Link to Comment Nihilarian
Nihilarian's picture

No one is claiming Utopia here. I'm just saying, if I had to pick the free market to allocate resources or "a really smart president", I'd choose the former. Of course, what we have in the USA can hardly be defined as capitalism given the top down approach toward the economy by the government (and elite that control them), not to mention the Fed.

In any case, I suggest you read this:

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:52 | Link to Comment VWbug
VWbug's picture

too bad both of those statements are clearly false.

capitalism does not depend on exponential growth, or growth at all for that matter, and resources are not finite (at least, not where i am , as the sun came up again today and farmers crops are still growing)

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:55 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Are you talking the propaganda most of us have been taught and still believe or how the game is now being played?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:09 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

The sun doesn't replenish resources at anywhere near the rate we consume them. There's energy stored underground which the sun gave to us eons ago, which has since compounded itself into rough carbon ("fossil fuels"). It's these reserves of energy upon which the system survives today. Now educate yourself on peak oil, and also look at the rapid degeneration of life on this planet due to pollution, the decrease in arable land, etc. etc. There are lots of indicators that time is running out in the system. It's not capitalism which depends on exponential growth, just capitalism the way we're doing it (a debt-fueled ponzi scheme)

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:37 | Link to Comment AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

And in what period Capitalism has not relied on an expansion scheme?

Everything that works has been labelled capitalism. So anything that will work in a support decreasing environment will be called capitalism.

Still that is not the current situation. So when did capitalism not rely on expansion?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:22 | Link to Comment Arthor Bearing
Arthor Bearing's picture

Considering that history as we know it has been one big human expansion, it would be quite difficult to answer this question satisfactorily

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:59 | Link to Comment adem
adem's picture

In my mind you failed to provide any rational as to why you believe those statements are false, let alone "clearly" so. Perhaps you are being facetious? If so, no need to read further.

The way in which capitalism is practiced by those of us in the U.S of A at present does rely on growth. The illusion that everyone can be successful evaporates without growth. I believe the original commenter was referencing the way things are in practice vs some sort of economic Utopian fantasy.


Your appeal to agriculture as an example of infinite resources is so ignorant it's humbling. Most, not all, credible scientists believe petroleum to be very much a finite resource and farming uses a massive amount of it. From fertilizer products to gas for the tractors and transportation to the plastics used in shipping and packaging.The labor involved in farming is also finite and intense. Planting and harvesting are fairly labor intensive, but so is the science behind farming (Monsanto...).



Mon, 09/27/2010 - 14:06 | Link to Comment Zexe
Zexe's picture

Before changing the system you need to change the fabric of the human brain. People are greedy no matter what you do.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:09 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture


Do you mean our greater good in the here and now (naturally, ignoring the piggies at the Fed trough) or the greater good of our children and grandchildren to whom we are passing on the poisoned baton of insurmountable debt ?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:24 | Link to Comment Zexe
Zexe's picture

Debt will not be repaid ever. It s how the system works. Debt is money, nothing more. In order to extinguish debt you need to extinguish money.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:44 | Link to Comment 10044
10044's picture

RG will be on king world news today, can't wait!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:47 | Link to Comment Goldenballs
Goldenballs's picture

Hear a lot of talk on here about QE2,will he won,t he,do people not realise QE is happening everyday wether announced or not.Without QE the whole lot would go,the whole world is in the same latrine.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:15 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture


But I think the point is- publicly announcing the next flood of helidollars.

Ben is saying: Kind of like the smell of fresh napalm in the morning if you losers don't help me jack up paper asset prices.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 09:54 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

"In this colored world of television, gardening was the white cane of a blind man."

Jerzy Kosinski

Being There

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:01 | Link to Comment 99er
Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:09 | Link to Comment Sherman McCoy
Sherman McCoy's picture

Robin's a smart guy. But, he's been COMPLETELY WRONG. He was lookin gfor SP940, and advised inevstors to sell eveyrthing - inlcuding gold. How dumb was that call?

It doesn't matter why the market is going up, the fact is it is. There are only 3 choices in life:

1) make things happen

2) watch things happen

3) sit around and wonder, what happened?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:23 | Link to Comment Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Being contrary is a tough row to hoe emotionally. But you're never wrong when you're with the herd.

And thus the reason you'll rarely be admonished for being wrong when everyone else is also wrong. Because there is no shame in being wrong with the herd. You know, because misery loves company. On the other hand, if you're wrong when others are "right", even if it's just for a short period of time, you're burned at the stake.

And if you're "right" when everyone else is wrong? Well, your clients may be secretly happy, but they feel strangely cheated because when everyone around you (the herd) is wrong (and thus losing money) and you're making money because your broker was right, you can't exactly dance in the streets and announce how smart you are. People will hate you, thus the herd will reject those who are right when the herd is wrong. So you suffer when you're wrong and when you're right if you're contrary to the herd.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't, thus the reason so many stick with the herd. Not because it's smart but because it's emotionally safer.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:48 | Link to Comment Aghast in Midlothian
Aghast in Midlothian's picture

Well put, CD. And speaks to the old adage..."Your critics will forgive you a lot more readily for being wrong than for being right."

People hate being wrong...and hate equally someone they know being right- especially if that person suggested earlier that they might think a different way. Witness the plight of  the hard core Hopey Changers.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:21 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture


It does matter why the market is going up.

1. Pump and dump is good for the pumper

2. If the only buyer is the Fed, make certain you wear your lead-lined panties when the balloon bursts.

Timing is the game.


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:12 | Link to Comment Dismal Scientist
Dismal Scientist's picture

As for bonds: "There is an old saying, don't buy the Fed"

This should read "There is an old saying, don't fight the Fed"


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:13 | Link to Comment The Real Fake E...
The Real Fake Economy's picture

I had to google and make sure he didn't work for what was part of the jpm/cazenove deal from a few years back, otherwise this guy's head would've be on the chopping block.  as it stands, i suspect he'll get some hate mail directly from US bankers, and so will his boss.  good for him for calling out the ponzi scheme!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:25 | Link to Comment Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Remember when Congress asked Greenspan about this, he just shuffled his nuts and lied to their faces.  Ha ha!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:44 | Link to Comment schnurmy
schnurmy's picture

All these Portfolio Managers that say stocks can do nothing but go up because of FED actions & various other run of the mill reasoning including valuation, momentum, cash on sidelines, blah blah blah...can't wait for the excuses for coming market correction/collapse.  Market is all happy because FED is "on their side" & willining to continue using monetary craziness to artificially support the economy & spur the equity market higher seems very precarious.  Wasn't the economy supposed to be much better by now?  Why hasn't the previous emergency actions been effective?  Do they or we know what's really wrong??

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:24 | Link to Comment Kayman
Kayman's picture


Answer to last question: No and No.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:56 | Link to Comment flow5
flow5's picture

POMO's aren't supercharging stock prices, EXCESS RESERVES are.  There is an inverse correlation (as the bankers put these assets to work), with stock prices.  The FEB 24th high was a low, etc.

EXCESS reserves declined by $49,910B ($1,025,816T on Aug 11, to $975,906B on Sept 22). 

EXCESS reserves peaked on FEB 24th @ $1,192,169T & have since declined by $216,263B

 The Federal Reserve is carrying out an "EXIT STRATEGY".


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:53 | Link to Comment Thunder Dome
Thunder Dome's picture


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:56 | Link to Comment huggy_in_london
huggy_in_london's picture

there'll be a knock at the door late at night for him .... how dare he challenge the ppt !!


Mon, 09/27/2010 - 10:57 | Link to Comment Hot Shakedown
Hot Shakedown's picture

I recorded this clip because it has a high probability of being "pulled" in my view. Filed it under "the Red Pill"

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:00 | Link to Comment Something Wicke...
Something Wicked This Way Comes's picture

What operates with no oversight, no control, and no constitutional provision? A private corporation that pays no taxes. Well, that must be the fourth branch of government.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:05 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Hard to believe that bonds are still pinned at the highs.

Still lots of fear out there, everyone hates stocks.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:13 | Link to Comment bronzie
bronzie's picture

"They know that equities are for losers."

I've been saying, "stocks are for suckers", for years

"equities are for losers" doesn't pack the same punch IMO although the message is the same

think I'll stick with:

stocks are for suckers!!!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:29 | Link to Comment wgpitts
wgpitts's picture

If this is true then the Federal Reserve has defrauded those who held long positions in inverse ETF's like DRV, FAZ, SKF, SRS, BGZ, TZA etc have been defrauded of billions by the Fed and those owners they are assisting. This is criminal theft of the highest magnitude,,,

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:46 | Link to Comment Rainman
Rainman's picture

When you steal, it is criminal theft. When goobermint and its agents steal, it is emergency powers. PPT is here to protect us......says so right there in their handle.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:44 | Link to Comment TexDenim
TexDenim's picture

Is there any way I can get Euro CNBC in Dallas?

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:51 | Link to Comment Aghast in Midlothian
Aghast in Midlothian's picture

Buy CNBC 360 for online delivery of US, Europe and Asia - $100 a year.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 11:56 | Link to Comment Sherman McCoy
Sherman McCoy's picture

If you've ever spent time at a craps table, or black jack table, you know that the future is unknowable. All you can go with are the odds. Anybody who claims they know that the market has to go down is either a fool or an idiot. Bell Air investment advisors posted the folowing fact:

"The trailing 10-year return for U.S. equities through the first half of this year has been as poor only six previous times since 1835–and the latest decade was worse than any of those others. The subsequent 10-year annualized total return from those earlier low-water marks was 13.3%"


So, even if the market does crater, that's not the way you're supposed to bet.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:06 | Link to Comment the grateful un...
the grateful unemployed's picture

the market is programmed to move higher, the economy is programmed to grow. The problem is the wealth gained by being a permabull is zero really, because everyone else is riding the gravy train as well. All you're buying with an indexing investment is the same thing everyone else has. Then of course the IRS comes in, the stock brokers make their commissions. The guys who sell the picks and shovels make a fortune, the gold miners are broke. The argument against shorts is that stocks can grow to infinity, (hahaha) but shorts can only go to zero. The fallacy of that argument is that as your short position grows everyone else is getting poorer. At the bottom you have capital you are using you proceeds to buy good stocks on the cheap, land, gold (the poor saps are trading for a handful of beans). 

and of course the propped up market represents the control of the political class, and be careful, as that covenant is fast approaching the tipping point. They can continue to offer us the two party system, warm shit and cold shit, for just so long. Then people lose faith in the political system, when that happens the market and all their other toys will get broken. 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:15 | Link to Comment Fearless Rick
Fearless Rick's picture

Will the aliens come in black helicopters and will they be dropping dollars?

That's about all I need to know.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:30 | Link to Comment Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Caterpillar (CAT) makes up 40% of the DOW's rise in 2010 according to Bloomberg. 

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:37 | Link to Comment CapitalObserver
CapitalObserver's picture

David Tepper has been wrong plenty of times before

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 12:57 | Link to Comment brent1023
brent1023's picture

His argument that the Brasilian market is where you want to be is not backed up by the data - at least using the iShares MSCI Brazil Index as a measure.

It took a real hit along with the western markets in 08 and has yet to return to its highs. There is little diversification if it falls with the S&P.

It might be a buy once we get near the bottom though, as it appears to drop farther but rise faster.

If you do get into bonds, don't stray far from your trading station and be ready to act. Probably won't be before the election, but things could happen quickly after the mid-terms.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:09 | Link to Comment scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

Take it, spend it.

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:20 | Link to Comment chirobliss
chirobliss's picture

Four trading days to end of quarter boys and girls, you ain't seen nothin' yet!!

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 13:48 | Link to Comment Mark Beck
Mark Beck's picture

I too was surprised by the POMO delay influence on equity seasonality. I would have to say mine was more like three weeks rather than two.


Gold rally not unlinked from equities? Are we reliving fall 2008? Fundamental weakness led by financials?

Mark Beck

Mon, 09/27/2010 - 16:15 | Link to Comment urbanryno
urbanryno's picture

isn't there some pomo action tomorrow that we should consider?  We're not going to see another last Friday, are we?  I'm still feeling around this POMO thing

Tue, 11/16/2010 - 11:10 | Link to Comment daniel
daniel's picture

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