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The CFTC Is Seeking Your Feedback
Today, the CFTC announced that it is seeking public comments on whether the Carbon Financial Instrument listed for trading by the Chicago Climate Exchange performs a significant price discovery function. As the CFTC has lately faced substantial public scrutiny over the potential abuse of its marketplace, it is prudent to carefully evaluate the impact of yet another market that may be abused by several key players.
From the press release:
CFTC Seeks Public Comment on its Notice of Intent to Determine Whether the Carbon Financial Instrument Listed for Trading by the Chicago Climate Exchange, Inc., Performs a Significant Price Discovery Function
Washington, DC – On August 14, 2009, the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC) issued a Notice of Intent, pursuant to the authority in Section 2(h)(7) of the Commodity Exchange Act (Act) and Commission Rule 36.3(c)(3), to undertake a determination whether the Carbon Financial Instrument (CFI) listed for trading on the Chicago Climate Exchange, Inc., (CCX) performs a significant price discovery function.
“The CFTC’s significant price discovery function authority helps to promote transparency and guard against fraud, manipulation and other abuses,” CFTC Chairman Gary Gensler said. “This is the second use of our new authority, and we will continue using it to promote market integrity.”
The Commission is undertaking this review based upon its initial evaluation of information provided by CCX, which indicates that the CFI contract appears to satisfy several of the statutory criteria for a significant price discovery determination. Following issuance of an order determining that a contract traded on an exempt commercial market (ECM) such as CCX performs a significant price discovery function, the ECM must within a prescribed time period, with respect to that contract, come into compliance with core principles mandated by Section 2(h)(7)(C) of the Act and other statutory provisions applicable to registered entities. These provisions would subject the ECM’s contract and market participants to the Commission’s position limit and emergency authorities and large trader reporting requirements, among others.
Commission Rule 36.3(c)(3) became effective on April 22, 2009 and establishes the procedures under which the Commission will make and issue its determination whether a specific transaction, contract or agreement traded on an ECM serves a significant price discovery function. Those procedures specify that the Commission will publish notice in the Federal Register that it intends to undertake a determination whether a particular contract serves a significant price discovery function and to receive written data, views and arguments relevant to its determination from the ECM and other interested persons. After prompt consideration of all relevant information, the Commission will issue an order announcing and explaining its determination.
Comments are due no later than 15 days from the date of publication of the Commission’s Notice of Intent in the Federal Register.
Below is the original intent:
hat tip Richard
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amended
No, GS really really cares about global warming. Just look at the homepage of their web site. Just a typical homepage of an FDIC insured bank.
http://www2.goldmansachs.com/
Also, Al Gore was being fitted for a floor trader coat with lovely pink piping.
+JPM in big bold.
Add Hank Paulson as well.
Al Gore’s Carbon Crusade: The Money and Connections Behind It
www.capitalresearch.org/pubs/pdf/v1185475433.pdf
didn't jpm or gs say that if they were not allowed to participate as marketmakers that global temps could rise several degrees? i think that was on bloomberg friday afternoon. seriously
boiler rooms do tend to get steamy
Conceptually, carbon trading is an elegant solution to a world-wide problem. In reality, it is at best a false economy and at worst just another table at the casino.
Which problem would that be?
The problem that J. Aron has not fulfilled its maximum VaR allotment for the year and therefore may need some more markets to corner.
Exactly. Something has to be done!
How a gas that is well known for concentrating itself in any deep hole has been blamed for rising to the top of the atmosphere and capturing heat is beyond me. If you want to decrease the amount of carbon dioxide in the air, grow some house plants or fertilize your lawn. After all, they grow faster the more CO2 that there is for them.
http://www.osha.gov/dts/hib/hib_data/hib19960613.html
http://www.sjsu.edu/faculty/watkins/CO2plants.htm
Carbon Trading is a solution to a problem, but not the problem you think. It is not a solution to man made global warming. It is a solution to disparities in wealth. The goal it to transfer wealth from rich to poor.
hahahahah
hang on let me compose myself
bwhahahahhahahaha Maurice Strong you fucking tool -- here, tax my breath , you Luciferian motherfucker. No joke -- How's it feel to be on the board of directors of Lucifer's Trust with "that-70s" war criminal Henry Kissinger ? I'll bet you get all the new albums before they get leaked to bittorrent. Yeah I know you love the Alice Bailey. Don't front. Externalization of the Heirarchy, all that satanic jazz.
http://www.amazon.com/Externalization-Hierarchy-Zzz-Alice-Bailey/dp/0853...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_Bailey
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucis_Trust
Let's all hold hands and worship Gaia , Maurie -- you pimp of humanity, destroyer of worlds. You've sold your soul , you hopeless fool. I hope your CCX ends up in the trashbin of history, like all the other fascist projects which take the lie as their principle. You might fool the well-meaning left liberals, but you ain't fooling me, you fat fuck.
"[Corrupt religious leaders] are expected to issue a Declaration for World Peace and agree to some form of a permanent International Advisory Council of Religious and Spiritual Leaders. Mr. [Ted] Turner, the summit's honorary chairman, has promised full live coverage by CNN. The chairman of the top advisory board is Canadian businessman Maurice Strong, [founder of the Chicago Climate Exchange (CCX)], who ran the U.N. Earth Summit in 1992."
"Nothing less than the future of our planet as the home for our species and others has been the object of our work. The world will not be the same after this conference. The prospects for our Earth cannot, must not, be the same. We came here to alter those prospects and change to a more promising and sustainable future. Each of the conventions on climate change and biodiversity has been signed by more than 150 nations. "Agenda 21" still stands as the most comprehensive, most far-reaching and if implemented, the most effective program of international action. It is not a final and complete action program, but one, which must continue to evolve. On finance – we are a long way from meeting the needs for "Agenda 21." We have established a new global partnership. We should consider new taxes, user charges, emission permits, citizen funding."
-Maruice Strong, founder of Chicago Climate Exchange
http://www.iisd.org/images/bioimages/hires/maurice_strong_hires.jpg
"Another group at the [Agenda 21] summit [in 1992], The Union for Natural Environment Protection, an environmental association based in Sao Leopoldo, Brazil, surprisingly declared the following about the true purpose of the W.C. of C's involvement:
“The environmental movement is being used as a cover to promote a return to the creed of the Ancient Mysteries, in the form of the worship of mother-nature, a pagan notion that equates the goddess with earth, known among the ancient Greeks as Gaia. Originally, she is the Babylonian Ishtar, known to the Bible as Astarte, or the Egyptian Isis. This pantheistic idea has its origins in ancient paganism, and is central to the Kabbalah and all Western occult tradition, including Freemasonry and the Illuminati. Plato wrote: “We shall affirm that the cosmos, more than anything else, resembles most closely that living Creature of which all other living creatures, severally or genetically, are portion; a living creature which is fairest of all and in ways most perfect.”
http://righteousalliance.blogspot.com/2009/07/lucifer-rising.html
"Maurice Strong, the billionaire Canadian oil mogul, collaborator with Mikhail Gorbachev, the former dictator of Russia, in the creation of a UN "Earth Charter," secretary-general of the UN "Rio Earth Summit" lauding the pernicious doctrine that is euphemistically called "Agenda 21" which deals with such things as property rights, biodiversity, health, energy, water and agriculture. This piece of spurious philosophy is now the dogma of the environmentalists but its more than 150 "action items" if enacted will weave a web of control, management and punitive charges and expense that will bring unbelievable hardship to industrialised nations and every individual living in them. "Agenda 21" and the "Earth Charter" are being promoted the Earth's new "gospel" by very powerful forces to replace existing spiritual and ethical systems: it is also replacing "The Communist Manifesto" in the hearts of communists, socialists, liberals, [and other 'useful idiots'] as the means to finally bring about the eagerly anticipated World Empire. "Agenda 21" is of course, the mammoth blueprint for global "eco-socialism" developed by wicked and evil people and that is why environmentalism is the cornerstone of the New World Order. Moreover, at the heart of this radicalised environmentalism is not the love of the environment but a hatred for mankind. It is all about control, from the cradle to the grave…. (1992)
Sigh... Strong looks like he goes with the Kissinger depopulation crowd...Why don't they volunteer themselves up and lead by example?
I've been wondering about that as well.
All those idiots who proclaim the world overpopulated would never think of volunteering to end their lives and thus do a service to mankind. It is always others who must be sacrificed for the common good.
Very misguided and possibly dangerous individuals, IMHO.
n succeed and moron..agree with the statement its a scam
They illegally overtaxed you back then through government scams and are just sitting on billions of it. Tax surpluses is stealing from tax payers. Time to get that money back and force them to lower taxes.
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
PM: Good summary. Carbon credits is a scam for seed money for UN's Agenda21 and Sustainable Developement. Climate change is called seasons, and cycles of the earth's orbit around the sun and solar cycles. This whole idea is a scam.
http://www.freedomadvocates.org/
Selah.
pagans are way more sane than the other nut job religions. Remember the other religions have all been tainted to control the masses.
Are you saying that this group is going to do that with paganism? remember it isn't satanic like you tend to suggest. By suggesting that, you are showing that you are one of those 100% christians that believe anything that aint what you believe to be the work of the devil
Sorry my friend you have NO IDEA what you are talking about nor what is going on on planet Earth in the year 2009. You should read more history before opening your ignorant fucking mouth. I don't mean to discourage off the cuff responses but seriously do your god-damned homework. I gave you about 50 billion hints to what the fuck is going on but you didn't bother to do any reading.
Yes all religions have been corrupted to control the masses. So what. Welcome to Mass Manipulation 101. This is the story of 6000+ years of human history. Cui Bono?
HOWEVER, that said, the idea of "God the Creator" as opposed to "God the Architect" is an important distinction. You've watched the Matrix II , right? Uhm yeah ... watch it again and pay attention to something besides Trinity's tits.
You claim "[paganism] isn't satanic". Lolwut. Well , no , its not "satanic" -- not strictly speaking. It is "Luciferian" to be precise. That is, the idea that the Architect is superior to the Creator. The light of Lucifer -- old intelligent dude with the beard, "the Architect"-- bla bla bla all that bullshit. Man is above God, and thus can choose either Good or Evil -- in other words, Gnostisicm. The idea that Good and Evil are morally equivilent. Sound familiar to the morality of the international fraud kings? You think they put Merovignian in that the Matrix II for kicks? The elite get off on proving the masses to be dumbasses incapable of independent thought or critical thinking. Have you read any Blavatsky? Alice Bailey? Manley P. Hall? Albert Pike? Giuseppe Mazzini (Prime Minister of Italy)? These people were movers and shakers within the social elite during the 19th century. Sometimes ,I think , that people think , that Aldous Huxley pulled "Brave New World" out of his ass on a really good acid trip. Not so. Huxley's family was part of the elite policy planning circles during the early 20th century. Huxley knew what was going on -- despite leaving this world on 250 mcg of LSD administered by his beautiful wife. If only I could have such an honor. But I digress.
Quotes affirming Lucifer as the God of Freemasonry (and also the God of CNBC and of Failblog):
“First conjuration address to Emperor Lucifer, Master and Prince of rebellious spirits, I adjure thee to leave thine abode in what ever quarter of the world it may be situated and come hither to communicate with me. I command and I conjure thee in thy name oh mighty living god, to appear without noise”. The Book Of Black Magic by Arthur Edward Waite 33rd Degree Mason.
“I hereby promise the Great Spirit Lucifuge, Prince Of Demons, that each year, I will bring unto him a human soul to do with as it may please him, and in return, Lucifuge promises to bestow upon me the treasures of the earth and fulfill my every desire for the length of my natural life. If I fail to bring him each year the offering specified above, then my own soul shall be forfeit to him”. Signed in blood, Manly Palmer Hall 33rd Degree Freemason from his book `The Secret Teaching Of All Ages`.
“When the Mason learns that the key to the warrior on the block is the proper application of the dynamo of living power, he has learned the Mystery of his Craft. The seething energies of Lucifer are in his hands and before he may step onward and upward, he must prove his ability to properly apply this energy”. Manly Palmer Hall 33rd Degree `The Lost Keys Of Freemasonry.`
“ That which we must say to a crowd is; We worship a God, but it is the God that one adores without superstition. To you Sovereign Grand Inspectors General, we say this, that you may repeat it to the brethren of the 32nd, 31st, and 30th degrees. The Masonic Religion should be, by all of us initiates of the High degrees, maintained in the purity of the Luciferian Doctrine”. Albert Pike 33 rd Degree.
“ Lucifer, the son of the morning! Is it he who bears the light, and with it's splendours intolerable blinds feeble, sensual, or selfish souls? Doubt it not!” Albert Pike 33rd Degree.
Yeah it's all sunshine and puppydogs. Line up for your swine flu shot at your local Baxter facility. Let's all have a good laugh as Project Mayhem gets the fuck out of Dodge.
Not that it matters to you or your god, but you lost my vote.
Agreed... what is he talking about? I tried to read it twice but kept getting stuck at Lucifer and wondering what he was doing on a financial blog :)
Do I look like I give I fuck what you think?
I'd give my life for the fucking truth. Everything else is just noise. Roll up that sleeve and sign on the dotted line , I'm just posturing for my own selfish purposes, right? On some anonymous fucking message board where I have like 1% of people's support what I say anyway?
This is such a popular thing to say -- I just love how much credibility it gives me. Lol. Send $5 to corruption@system.gov and I promise I'll give you first dibs.
Pass out the lithium please...
Actually lithium is simply a co-factor in catacholamine neurotransmission. If you were trying to be clever, you would suggest a phenothiazine tranquilizer such as chlorpromazine -- and would make an off-the-cuff reference to tardive dyskinesia and/or post-synaptic D2 receptors in the nigrostriatial pathway. But what I said is so far outside your worldview or intelligence capabilities you won't bother.
That's fine my job here is done. I'm simply psychotic right -- because I have a superior command of the socioeconomic and historical facts. You might want to start with the 1933 text "Occult Theocracy." Then again, you might not. Go back home -- and go long TLT and IEF. Big money awaits. My words are not for you.
No actually I meant lithium... it is much better at mood stabilization and moderating highs and lows.
I think you do have a message to convey and I would actually be interested in knowing what it is... I love to learn about new interesting thoughts and ideas... but your message is getting lost in the noise and verbosity of your text... imho you might want to tone down the intensity and remove a few 'fucks'... and then your message might resonate with others... just a thought.
I thought we were talkin' Nirvana...the band.
If you knew that and what you don't know, you calm down and think about it for awhile. Meanwhile back at the CFTC, they need to get the marketmakers in the room and remove one oxygen atom from the CO2 they seem to care so much about and meditate for a an hour or so. They would stop caring so much about the planet's warming and send their souls out for another try.
That was clever...
So what you're saying is that it is a good price discovery tool?
Yeah, wasn't Tyler's post about the CFTC asking for feedback or something?
Wow, you do care what others think. Don't take it the wrong way but I don't mind discourse. And I'm not in favor of the CCT. You just take discourse to the extreme. Over the last 20 years slander, fear mongering, religious self righteousness has been abused to marginalize ideas and stifle dialouge. I know these are "fight club rules" but there are many ways to say the same thing.
ok fucknut - here are some cliff notes to digest for paganism since you obviously dont have much room with all that drivel you are filling it with.
http://www.strike-the-root.com/4/wasdin/wasdin30.html
The sun god they worship is Mithras not Lucifer, can we get that flushed outta your brain?? The pagan tales on Lucifer was for the time he was in heaven with the lord - but due to pride he tries to rule heaven once the lord left for a while.. so a fight breaks out with michael and old Luci gets thrown down to hell and is now called satan on earth.. yadda yadda.. that is what the people you are referring to worship. but that aint Paganism!!!! It's Satanism!!
and screw the books, if you had any real balls you'd take .4 mg/kg of DMT and see the 'creator' for yourself and not whine about someone else's LSD blissful exit
Actually I have taken DMT. Shall we begin with machismo regarding the long term potentiation at our 5HT-2A receptors or shall we skip directly to the spiritual dicussion?
Regareding Mithras -- this was the mystery religion of the Roman Empire -- part of the Eleusinian Mysteries. The mystery religions of the Babylon and Egypt preceeded this by approximately ~2500 years. I am referring to the former. Interesting point though -- well taken. One thing many may find fascinating is that the names change but the symbols do not, much similar to how the symbols between the Greek and Roman empires remained the same while the names changed (Athena being equivilent to Minerva, and so on). The horned bull is a well known ancient Luciferian symbol -- in this case, likely ripped off from the Persians, Babylonians, or Sumerians.
Furthermore, for those interested in economics of ancient Europe -- the Eastern Roman Empire outlived the Western Roman Empire by 1000+ years. Why did the Western fall into the Dark Ages but the Eastern did not? Many theories have been proposed -- but the simplest is actually that of currency debasement. The Western Roman Empire closed its mint and progressively debased its silver-minted currency -- starting with Nero -- while the Eastern Roman Empire did not.
Cheers
Now that was interesting... thanks...
well said - now that you brought up Sumerians, the real game changer is: did Nibiru really exist? Were Anunnaki real or a myth?
You are well read, and presumably your mind well travelled, so it would be interesting to hear your thoughts on transcendental/infinite souls as mentioned in the first two 'messages from michael' books...
To continue with your points on freemasonry - yes many of these secret cults love the hierarchy that satanism & occultism brings since it teaches to sacrifice for your master's benefit, not for salvation.. which is one of the reasons Hitler allowed some occultism to shape the SS.. and yes the symbols never change and much is said on the energy that is stored in symbols
not sure how to bring this back to how economics are rigged but now that seems trivial compared to the real headwinds blowing these days
Damn PM, what is a girl to do who has missed out on your posts for about a week! Thanks for trying to enlighten, and i look forward to more that you have to say.
Yes please, let's sip directly to spirituality, by all possible means.
Let's start with the prinicple: "What you focus on expands".
What are you focusing on, a problem or a solution?
There is no end to ignorance, fanaticism or tyranny.
I am familiar with all of the quotes, it makes you wonder where all the missing children on the milk bottles have gone. Recent research shows that young blood can preserve and repair tissues in older people (young rat & old rat blood circulation connected).
Yes, Albert Pike also was the creator of the KKK and his bust is in the Supreme Council Temple in DC - positioned directly above the white house. The masons at the lower levels are not aware of the purpose of the higher levels in the resurrection of the mystery religions and their occult rituals.
What really infuriated me was seeing a shriner (masonic) tent at a local fair that was giving out free RFID injections to children for "security". They are imbedded in the skin, but research shows it increases the heat in the cells which causes tumors due to inflammation. This micro-chip will be the future cashless society pushed by the bankers (see Rockefeller Aaron Russo interview), sold on the basis of security (identity theft proof, no "terrorist" cash, fully trackable and taxable). They are attempting to get wide adoption through security and have succeeded in having most domesticated animals tagged. This is to ground this discussion on the financial blog.
There's a reason it's called a secret society - their deeds can't be exposed to the light of day, and if you ever watch cities of the underworld on the history channel, it would appear that the dualists have been underground in many cities for centuries. Major events are also marked by their numerology in dates and times.
You are not alone in being well read, they are deceived into doing the devils bidding.
Uh...I've had my Luciferian moments myself, Aleister Crowley a/k/a The Beast 666, and all that, but I'm feeling a little uncomfortable here, Project Mayhem. You have lost me - I need the dim-witted, slow to comprehend version of this.
Hey CFTC..how about some comments as to your fucking authority as you settle the US GDP every 3 days with ZERO oversight not to mention that you are owned by JPM, GOLDMAN (the usual suspects) so I am sure you have "the people's" best interest at heart....
Fast forward 10 years as there will be testimony and public outrage at electricity and anything carbon based being taxed and manipulated....
"well senators we put out for public comment"
This is a fucking joke....
This product is a dream for those in finance: trading AIR for profit. Amazing this financial innovation stuff.
Now those bastards can charge us to breath. They own the country, the government, and now the air we breathe. Beautiful.
How will the CFTC crack down on "speculators" with this one?
I can't wait to see what they come up with next: trading in beer fart emissions? Or how about the halitosis index? At least these would have some societal value, especially after all large sporting events and Thursday nights on various campuses.
LOL... trading air for profit... that is what our financial world has come to...
they'll make you scared of that with air, while they are doing it with water around the world. go see the documentary FLOW
In 1602, the first market devoted to stocks was established on an Amsterdam bridge over the Amsel River. Speculation was rampant because of poor communications with company operations in distant lands. Out of this speculation sprang a variety of products used today in virtually the same fashion. "Stock-jobbing" was conducted on borrowed money, and contracts were sold on products not owned by the seller to buyers that didn't have the money to buy them in a promissory fashion termed "windhandel" or "trading air". Windhandel was banned in 1610 but coninued illegally (including through the time of the tulip mania) until 1689 when it was legalized and taxed. By that time, traders were playing both sides of the market. The optimists were termed "liefhebbers" and the pessimists were "contramineurs." Obviously this site panders to contramineurs. The financial world hasn't changed.
Enlightening...
"God the Creator" as opposed to "God the Architect" is an important distinction.
They illegally overtaxed you back then through government scams and are just sitting on billions of it. Tax surpluses is stealing from tax payers. Time to get that money back and force them to lower taxes.
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
Are all of these posts out of stupidity or ignorance?
To put things into perspective:
1 CFI contract = 1,000 tonnes of CO2
= 3500 years of a human breathing
= 2 million miles driven by car
= absorbed by 50,000 trees / year
It is estimated that the US produces 5,752,289 CFI / year due to fossil fuels.
There IS a need to curb CO2 production, the debate isn't over that, it's over how and how to price it. This isn't trading air, this is similiar to charging for garbage disposal - the exception being there is a bidding/market for a limited capacity.
CO2 is harmless. Where's the evidence that it does anything but help trees grow? The earth has gotten warmer by 0.6 degrees C in the last 100 years. 0.6 degrees is just statistical noise!
CO2 is nothing next to changes in orbit, axis wobble and solar weather. The latter seems to be pointing towards a cooling period.
good point
They illegally overtaxed you back then through government scams and are just sitting on billions of it. Tax surpluses is stealing from tax payers. Time to get that money back and force them to lower taxes.
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
Yes, I have a comment. I don't want more taxes, national health care taxes or carbon tax. The government days of work amount to August 12th which is outrageous. India and China have already said they are not going to play along, so this has worse than zero strategic advantage - we'll actually shoot ourselves in the foot. Worse than that, this is just another exchange for Goldman Sachs to skim - they will take a percentage of all trades (just like taxes).
Global warming is a scam believed by those academics that are half-men who created their own environment in which they can succeed and morons on the receiving end of the propaganda machine (TV). The scientists outlining the fallacies are shunned, threatened with firing, and do not receive any funding for projects. These are the same people that fell in line behind the nazi's - these people are environmental nazi's. The globe is actually cooling as we are entering the new ice age, so they changed it to global climate change from global warming.
Al Gore admitted this was the first step in "GLOBAL GOVERNANCE" - this is a tax for the United Nations. Fuck Al Gore, the inconvenient truth for him is that global warming doesn't exist - if it did, he should actually feel guilty flying around in his private jet, maintaining his mansions, and driving around in his SUV's while telling everyone else to cut back. What did the UN just say? "UN chief warns of 'incalculable' suffering without climate deal...". Who are the terrorists? Those who terrorize to advance their political goals - look up the definition. The UN is now a terrorist and you can throw Al Gore in to the mix as well. What did the Bankers say for the bailout? - if you don't give us $700B we will go back to the dark ages - it's a threat, a scare tactic to get what you want.
We need to fight this just as hard as national health care. Do you want your breath regulated? It's carbon, your liberty is on the line. Laugh in the faces of the people that actually believe this, make them feel like the sheeple they are - the ignorant masses being manipulated so they can give a tax to the UN to "SAVE US". Don't believe in them, believe in yourself - they're not your savior and they shouldn't be trusted.
Goldman Sachs and Al Gore are lined up to make billions off of this scam.
Bears reposting:
Cap-and-Trade's Unlikely Critics: Its CreatorsEconomists Behind Original Concept Question the System's Large-Scale Usefulness
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB125011380094927137.html
In 1966, Mr. Crocker, still struggling to finish his thesis at the University of Wisconsin at Milwaukee, sketched out the cap-and-trade idea to deal with air pollution produced by fertilizer plants in Florida. Mr. Crocker first pitched the idea of trading at a conference in Washington. He had been asked to attend as a stand-in for a professor who couldn't go and present data on the Florida plants. He didn't have all the data yet and came up with the theory instead.
Enviornmental Terrorism for benefit of the Banksters, and chief snakeoil salesman AlGore. But I suppose this has to be somehow spun into 'legitmate feedback' for the CFTC, before they have to shutdown their email servers (after this soon goes viral).
so we are going into a new ice age with our caps melting??
you can argue motives and such but to say the water temp hasn't increased means you have your own pigheaded agenda.
anyone smart about this knows that when the globe heats up we will get more clouds which will cool off more of the surface, but the places that aren't getting the cloud coverage are going to end up with droughts
i have no clue if man is really pushing it faster than what it may have done on its own, but you have to admit that we only had factories for the past 150 years so we should think about what ifs for the next 300 years. Using solar, wind, etc with the new energy storage methods that MIT created last year is the most sane way to preserve our current lifestyle
once houses can be their own powerplant (and also charge up your cars) then people do not have to all squeeze into our decaying cities anymore and use more of the land that is away from the main grids
but with GS around you know we are all just going to get fucked
If there is man-made global warming, it is by application of Tesla's principles. Of what do I speak? HAARP
Do some research before coming back with a tinfoil accusation. All attempts as of late are based on control of the human race, again you are a carbon life form and national health care would provide the government with total control over life itself. People that do not understand this are so naive and have never had power.
That said, I hate pollution of chemicals, and coal plant dust and would appreciate severe bankrupting fines for introducing those into our air and water.
Man, the ice cap melted was not caused by warming weather in such a short time, but rather caused by the volcano explosion under the cap. Yeah, check out the info and see how many live volcanoes reside uner the cap.
Man, it is August and I am, literally, freezing to death here in the NW. The coming heatwave from down California is said to bring us to the high of 80s.
Man, the water is so warm that so far only Bill has been named for Hurricane. Bet you one dollar that Mary will not not show up in this year's hurricane roundup.
Dude... I assume since you're here (on a financial site) that you can read a chart.
I suggest you look at a comparison of CO2 vs. temperature, and then explain to me how temperature is a leading indicator - But CO2 is somehow responsible for temperature levels.
If Carbon was the stock market, and I had temperature as an indicator... I'd rule the fucking world.
There is no proposal for a breathing tax. The tax is on people taking away your ability to breathe. If there was ever a scandal in finance, it has got to be the idea that the environment is a free resource. If you cut down a tree, that's considered production. How that ever passed for accounting boggles the mind.
Btw the debate over whether global warming exists is OVER.
"Btw the debate over whether global warming exists is OVER."
That's right, the New York Times said so.
32,000 Scientists dispute global warming:
http://www.taxpayerblog.com/2008/05/32000-scientists-dispute-global-warm...
Clearly the debate is still alive, although who needs science when you have politics?
What do the heads of JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, the Hollywood cinema heads, and most of the major media networks have in common? There is an anti-non-semitic slant, read it again. There is a clear conspiracy to restrain any dissent, culminating with a nobel prize for following sun cycles masquerading as man made global warming (a causation error when it just happened to correlate). Judging by the players, this must have been dreamed up in the same Synagogue.
There is no current proposal for a heavy breather tax, but if you know politics this is a slippery slope. The EPA has stated that carbon emissions are a dangerous pollutant and will move to curb emissions. That is rather broad, and could lead to population restrictions.
Draw a line in the sand and say, I am a human being dammit, my life has meaning. Where does it stop?
To quote Sam Adams: “Contemplate the mangled bodies of your countrymen, and then say 'what should be the reward of such sacrifices?' Bid us and our posterity bow the knee, supplicate the friendship and plough, and sow, and reap, to glut the avarice of the men who have let loose on us the dogs of war to riot in our blood and hunt us from the face of the earth? If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animated contest of freedom, go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen!”
Although carbon markets would do a lot of good, they will only do horrible things if GS and JPM have anything to do with them. I don't trust that they will not rip people off and I damn well don't trust their ecological accounting. I'll by a CO2 credit from a transparent market not a bunch of criminals.
Chicago Climate Exchange=Criminal Creating Enterprise
CCX=Complete Criminal Exchange
U.N. Chief Warns of Dire Future Without Climate Deal
http://www.theepochtimes.com/n2/content/view/20820/
He talked about the enviroment or something...I figure he is on the payroll and means this... "If we do not have the exchange in place to create another bubble by December..well my secret GS options will be worth shit..
Learned from Hank Paulson dealing with Congress, no doubt. Wonder what he can cause to tank if this fails to pass.
That goddam zipper head rice eater is going to push this as his own "Food for Oil" program.
Im so fed up with the liberal media pushing socialism in America. Al Gore is just collecting his entitlement from this country for not being president. Tell me Al what the hell were those girls doing in NK???? and how much did you have to pay Clinton to release them?
Sqworl... I love your comments... but imho you have got to chill on the derogatory phrases... in the last day I've heard 'porch monkeys' and 'zipper head rice eaters'. We are a pretty integrated country and although I am white... I would think that there are many Asians, blacks and other minorities who enjoy this site as much as I do... but not so much those phrases...
I apologize...Native American and Im just sick and tired of what is going on in my country. Porch Monkeys is a term I use for ignorants. If I have offended anyone, please accept my apologies...;-(
Apologies are always accepted by me... and continue with your fun and enlightening comments!
Thanks, It's not on GS and JPM, but GE is going to have its filthy hand in trading energy credits!!! It's bad enough that they do business with Iran! Everything that thas their name on it is made outside US...
what really is so wrong with Iran? You really think they are going nuke someone? We were the only crazies to ever do that and everyone knows we'll do it again for any slight reason. People thinking that we dont go and bomb the shit outta people whenever we want are just blind fools
do you think we can amass this amount of debt if people didnt think we were completely crazy?
remember we give out foreign aid only to get a hand into those countries for our own agendas. Granted those agenda usually only benefit the elite in this country, but when do the people get anything besides the oil checks in alaska?
No shit sherlock, but I guess you missed their recent elections and riots, with deaths of people asking for democracy.
Furthermore, all those sanctions for what??
Do you think we can amass this amount of debt if people did not think were were crazy?
Hello, does super fucking power of the world mean anything?
I think your question about Iran nuking anybody should be directed at Isreal...;-)
so now you play the bleeding heart liberal and 'care' about Iran's people.. go fuck yourself twoface - you don't think those oppressed fucks won't turn on you just like every other oppressed fuck in that hell hole does once they taste some victory?
And let Isreal deal with Iran on its own now.. 60 years and a few wars under its belt should let it take the training wheels off. Or do you just like sending our brothers and sisters to die for every arrogant fucking cause on the globe?
OMG...ouch I guess my comment brought out the darkness in you. The hypocracy of GE doing business with Iran, whilst it was sanctioned by the UN was my point, furthermore, I like Persians!
Several members of my family have served in wars to allow you and I to bitch slap each other over crap we cannot do anything about! Double Snap!
one of my grandfathers flew a plan for Hitler, the other was sent to Siberia and finally was released while sent into Iran
everyone has a gripe and a plan... if we actually took over places like Iraq for the good of the American people then it would be easier to support. But all these chicken hawks we have running the USA are war profiters (from its own taxpayers, eventually) which is sicker than anything Stalin or Hitler was motivated to do. Is that dark enough for ya?
With all due respect, I strongly suggest you seek medical help for your acute separation anxiety from Barny Frank leaving your bed....in this room, your my bitch, now shut up and bend over whilst I strap on my big Hanky Paulson and make you whislte Dixie.
confused eh? I bring up the sham that is America's 'fake war for real money' business model and you make it seem like I am some outsider. How about 'war for taking over whoever bothers us the most' and allow this country to grow instead of bleed.
you are fake and part of the destruction of this country for short time gains. total chicken hawk
you would be so scared of a real war you would die in your sleep since waking up would be too traumatic for your bloated existence
I am all for reducing 'gas emissions' because it certainly can't hurt, and if it helps that is all the better. But, this whole concept of trading energy credits is just amazing... would have loved to be a fly on the wall when this was cooked up... would have simply been much easier to have a company's 'gas emissions' reduced over a period of time and all new companies have to meet minimum standards with their 'gas emissions' over a period of time. Just as the one commenter said above... we are now reduced to 'trading air'.
But the federal government will be the big winner since it will generate revenue of $50-300 billion annually... a new tax... auctioning the emissions permits to the companies required to reduce their emissions creates a dependable revenue stream for the federal government.
And yes I agree... GE and the other TARP recipients will somehow, someway benefit from this new program... while the rest of us poor people will have to pay more for the end-product from these manufacturing industries.
Let's see the last WS/DC Shag was CDO's..that game ended..let's start a new one! Your correct about the tax revenue and that the Banksters will benefit. Albeit the corporations who emit these toxic gases will just pass the cost to us...So there you have it, we get gang banged sideways...
I am getting really used to that position Sqworl :-)
The price should be fixed based on avg. CO2 concentrations world wide, not on trading desk shenanigans.
Even if you think CO2 emissions are the biggest problem facing us today (I put it at about #528 on my list of priorities), cap and trade/carbon credits is the most ass-backward, Rube Goldberg solution you could possibly come up with. The only reason politicians like it is that it's a hidden tax so they don't have to admit they're raising taxes.
If you want to reduce carbon emissions, tax carbon emissions. Simple as that. I'd be happy to pay extra for carbon emissions in exchange for an equal reduction in income tax, but of course Congress would tax carbon and leave income tax unchanged because they are a bunch of parasites.
I think you completely miss the point when you say
"it is prudent to carefully evaluate the impact of yet another market that may be abused by several key players."
The carbon trading maket is portrayed as a solution to global warming. in reality it is environmental fraud put forth by people who don't give a damn about the environment. it's just another way to trade wothless paper for people who don't like to break a sweat when they work.
exactly - and it is has the added benefit of forcing reduced production which should be perfect timing to shove us fulling into a depression
I'd link the recent Taibbi article if I wasn't so lazy.
ah yes Carbon - the most significant of the green house gases except for one - our friend water vapor, which makes up a mere 95%+ of all so called green house gases - but for some reason when they were handing out the registrations for what qualifies as a green house gas water vapor missed the cut.
And then there's Mr/Ms Sunshine - a minor player to be sure in all things climate -
now for something very controversial -- a famous / infamous mid 20th century leader was not only an environmentalist but also a vegetarian -- 10 points for the person who can identify that individual (annonymous posters only please) ... ya ya I will cave and take an identity in due course
http://tinyurl.com/8v799
in a good way or in a bad way ... and good morning to you 2 Andy ..
lol ... look ma'; I'm famous ...
yep; they are insane; when i first started to trade China and HK couple of years ago; the first thing i have read was as many history books on china as i could. That gave me a good insight into Chinese way of thinking. their problem is that they are gamblers and savers in the same time; they gamble to the extreme, and then save to the extreme. And this does not surprise me that they think they can manipulate the market at their wish; 60 yrs of indoctrination with central planing has to give you some false sense of omnipotence. Just look at the swings in the Chinese markets; they are more volatile than in any other market in the world. +60% in three months, then -85% in two months, than again +90% in five months etc. playing china is like kayaking down the Niagara falls.
EDIT: hey Andy, check out this proposal concerning Cap-n-Trade from Tim Wirth. This is, in my opinion, the best way to do it, if it really needs to be done ( and it doesnt) http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601072&sid=aUxE2A2VDU0s
China dumped 25 billion worth of Us treasury in June, the first time ever China reduced its us treasury holding, showing china is indeed implementing its strategy of greatest escape in the history.
The gold dollar, used by chinese to describe US dollar's reserve currency status, is now obviously paper dollar. The dumping has started.
Hello, TD, dig something out in this topic.
My feedback? Okay. Can I put my hands down? Thanks. Here's my wallet. Please don't shoot me. Um. Hear from Ted Butler lately?
"Mother Earth is going to shake us off like a bad case of fleas."
They illegally overtaxed you back then through government scams and are just sitting on billions of it. Tax surpluses is stealing from tax payers. Time to get that money back and force them to lower taxes.
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions
Where does this end? Will I need carbon credits to poo? Pass gas? What of the rest of my pooing gassing family? How about my pets? No, they are okay? What about my compost pile? How about my cow farm?
If there is legitimate science behind this, who gets to decide, humm? How much is too much?
You made a big mistake letting these GS and JPM and the like be anywhere near this.
Wanna cut down on carbon emmissions? I've got the answer for you and I won't even make you pay me for it. Ready?
LET THE MOTHERFUCKING INSOLVENT CORPORATIONS, BANKS, AND COUNTRIES FAIL. STOP PROPPING THEM UP WITH LIES.
I promise you, mother nature will take care of the rest. Really.
agreed, mscreant.
btw your comment just reminded me of a great George Carlin statement:
"Mother Earth is going to shake us off like a bad case of fleas."
Well said.
Oh...CFTC...the commodity market equivalent of the SEC or "another government approved agency to help Wall Street RIP OFF the little guy". Here is my "comment" to them and the only one they deserve:
"Please F**K OFF."
Today, the CFTC announced that it is seeking public comments...
Go f$ck yourself, that's my comment.
Murdock if you read this blog...use the WSJ to expose them...
Zipperhead is gonna claim a huge hunk of the carbon credits because his fiefdom has a dearth of energy...at least that he'll admit to.
If someone in a "terrorist country" could just find a martyr willing to get infected with ebola, and then just blow himself up around Wall Street, hemorrhagic fever could fix a lot of the worlds problems in about 2 days. No one will even be concerned about trading carbon when they are afraid to breathe.
Why would they want to help us?
I think Tom Clancy already did that one, as well as flying a commercial airliner into a building(State of the Union speech).
Hahahaha...ROTFL! Excellent solution BTW. If only the layer of scum at the top of society (that seems to develop and get really rotten every few generations or so) is cleaned periodically, we would all be so much better off for it.
A ten year tax holiday for renewable energy production would draw in investment into clean energy. There is no need for any sort of exchange or the vampire squid. Since there is no tax revenue coming in on these nonexistent projects, Treasury suffers no loss. Additionally, capital sitting on bank ledgers is no source of jobs or revenue.
A ten year tax holiday for renewable energy production would draw in investment into clean energy. There is no need for any sort of exchange or the vampire squid. Since there is no tax revenue coming in on these nonexistent projects, Treasury suffers no loss. Additionally, capital sitting on bank ledgers is no source of jobs or revenue.
Or you can forward any comments to:
The White House - A Subsidiary of Goldman Sachs
http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/08/white-house-subsidiary-of-goldman...
Did you see the footnotes?
The White House - A Subsidiary of Goldman Sachs
http://www.goldmansachs666.com/2009/08/white-house-subsidiary-of-goldman...
First neutralizing Flash, then Solar Radiation, and finally Usain Bolt. The world can soon breathe easy. (forgive this sidebar; just watched yesterday's recording of the World Championships, and Bolt needs to be stopped).
Which is more ominous - the fact that the US economy is still getting worse despite all rhetoric to the contrary, or the fact that so many of the people most attuned to the economic reality are nonetheless thoroughly in denial about the environmental reality? We'll be ready for serious action, like spending trillions of dollars a year on locking up atmospheric carbon dioxide via industrialized mineral carbonation, in about ten years' time, when the Arctic sea ice is melting away completely every summer and when every El Nino takes a bigger bite out of agricultural productivity than before, on a crowded planet with a glut of people and a shortage of oil and fertilizer. At that time it will be obvious to everyone in the world that humanity is in very deep shit over this issue, and no-one will give a damn about 'debating the science' the way we do now. But for the moment we live in the interim period, when the political will for a tepid response like cap-and-trade exists, but not for geoengineering. I'm not sure whether I should wish for Waxman-Markey to pass, just so the transition will begin, or whether I should see its troubles as an opportunity to work towards the institution of the more radical policy.
co2 cassandra
jeazze guys,
it was a down day
get caught on the wrong side of the trade?
I made a bit
The CFTC may be seeking my feedback, but I bet they'll choke on whatever I have to tell them. I used to be married to a daughter of a big wheel there and I know just too much of that dirt.
Sometimes I just need a little music before I comment on the Full Moon Society.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n4s4hW-oGZ0
"A second, related mechanism is over-reach. As barriers to Plutocratic expansion fall and its share of national income rises, then a positive feedback loop forms: the more the Plutocracy expands, the greater the profits, which then fuels greater political influence, and so on. At a critical (and largely invisible) juncture the Plutocracy inevitably over-reaches. Over-reach takes many forms; it might be an unparalleled expansion into highly risky derivatives, or a domestic Plutocracy reaching into international speculations. The key point is that over-reach pushes the Plutocracy's financial speculations beyond a level of known, controllable risk into uncharted territory, a territory which promises stupendous profits along with equally stupendous but often obscured risk.
Over-reach inevitably pushes a stable system into instability. Once the Plutocracy's income, power and influence are threatened by the rising instability caused by over-reach, then the Elite resorts to propaganda, simulacrum and other mechanisms to mask the structural instability from the populace. The hope is that the system which so greatly benefits the Plutocracy can be restored to health, but the mechanisms of "recovery" are essentially inauthentic: simulacrums of reform, propagandistic manipulations of financial and economic data to mask the structural instability, and outright fraud/looting of State resources (bailouts, loans, etc.)--that is, publicly-funded exemptions from risk and free market forces that would otherwise require the Plutocracy to absorb the catastrophic consequences of its over-reaching leveraged gambles.
This failure to address the underlying cause--systemic over-reach and Plutocratic domination of the economy and political system--insures the instability will only worsen. As ever-more frantic attempts to protect the interests of the Plutocracy fail, then another feedback loop forms: the more sham reforms and State bailouts fail to restore stability, the more desperate and transparent the Plutocracy's attempts to retain power."
http://www.oftwominds.com/survival-plus1.html
Here's an easy litmus test: if GS is for it, and says so by announcing that it is good for the environment, and that GS's altruism is its prime motivation, I'm against it. No further investigation required. It is de facto injurious to the public good.
I think I meant prima facie injurious. I'm off the rails today on the news the markets are rallying - well at least according the Becky, Joe and Carl. Nary a bear in sight.
Gee, didn't know that there was a difference between "excluded commodity" and "excempt commoditity".
http://www.cftc.gov/educationcenter/glossary/glossary_e.html#exemptcommo...
So after having exempted carbon commodities (futures and other derivatives?) from the CFTCs control and regulation they are now unexempting those carbon commodities that are "Significant Price Discovery Contracts (SPDC)" and want the publics feedback on what it sinks about the way the CFTC want to go about doing that.
http://www.cftc.gov/stellent/groups/public/@newsroom/documents/file/ccxs...
The CCX wants to trade so called CFIs (future contracts) which are based on carbon emission allowances. Is this going to work the same way as the EU ETS stuff? Answer: no it doesn't because here the programm is voluntary and the CCX hands out carbon allowances to members who choose to participate. In the EU allowances are government issued and participation is mandatory.
Title: Cameron dare not copy Obama's disastrous economic policiesShould he come to power, the Conservative leader must avoid the calamitous mistakes of the American president
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear David (if I may),
You and your party may be the only hope we have for a resilient society insulated from negative Black Swans and in which everyone has the opportunity to benefit from positive Black Swans. For I despair of the Obama administration's ability to fix this financial crisis and prevent future ones. I am appalled by the dangers it has been creating and its takeover by the same economic establishment responsible for this crisis.
What is a Black Swan? It is a low-probability, high-impact event that, because of its rarity and the instability of the environment, cannot be scientifically evaluated in terms of risk and return. Although Black Swans are rarely predicted, they are retrospectively seen as having been anticipated, which makes us overestimate our abilities to see them coming. Black Swans can emerge as a result of our intellectual arrogance and our ignorance of our limitations. Some elements of the future are simply beyond our grasp.
Much of history has been dominated by Black Swans, both positive and negative. These deviations are the main reason economic theories and forecasts do not work, since the exceptional and unforeseen high-impact event plays a large role in economic life.
We live in an increasingly complex system and complexity causes Black Swans. How? The more interdependent we become, the harder it is to trace the cause of an event and the tougher to forecast accurately, meaning the traditional tools of economics will fail us. And since the spread of the internet, rumours go round the world in minutes. Consider the run on Icelandic banks. It took place at BlackBerry speed. So the economic variables, such as sales, commodity prices, unemployment or GDP growth, are subject to ever more extreme variations. The over-efficiency of the systems means things run smoothly, but are subject to rare but violent blow-ups.
David, you must counter this complexity by lowering indebtedness. We have known since Babylonian times that debt is treacherous and allows no room for mistakes: felix qui nihil debet goes the Roman proverb ("happy is he who owes nothing"). The combination of debt levels swollen from two decades of over-confidence with modern finance's complex derivatives has been disastrous.
Be careful, too, of the so-called science of economics. Economists have been no better in their predictions than cab drivers. We have an "expert" problem, in which the expert provides you with misplaced confidence, but no information. Because we think, correctly, that the dermatologist, the baker, the chemist are true experts (they know more about their respective subjects than the rest of us), we swallow the canard that the economists at the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank, the Bank of England and the US Federal Reserve are also experts, without checking their record. This reliance on faux experts is, for the most part, what got us here. Now it is continuing with the build-up of government deficit and an increased reliance on flimsy forecasts by the Obama administration.
This problem with experts was particularly acute when it came to the "risk models" on which bankers built those positions that turned sour. So it is that you are coming under pressure to provide more regulation. Alas, the need for more regulation is a myth. I have been fighting risk models both as a Wall Street trader and as a professor and my worst nightmares were the results of regulators. It was they who promoted the reliance on ratings by credit agencies. The "value-at-risk" models regulators promoted made us take more risks.
If we are to have regulators, we need them to operate along conservative lines and conserve the rich knowledge and understanding of risk transmitted through generations of practice, of trial and error. We replaced the heuristics of the elders with arrogant (and incompetent) beliefs, breaking, in the name of science, the chain of knowledge. Old, conservative bankers and traders have been replaced by keen young mathematical analysts, yet anyone who listened to a grandmother who survived the Depression would have been warned against debt and been better prepared than Ben Bernanke and Alan Greenspan, respectively chairman and former chairman of America's Federal Reserve.
The solution is obvious: build an economy that increases the role of well-tested traditions. Ban financial derivatives that require advanced mathematics rather than trial and error. Look at mother nature. There is a complex system built around sound principles that has insured both evolution and survival. It does not let anything get too big to fail. It breaks things early. I don't understand why people who stand against tampering with nature accept tampering with the economy that would have organically grown too. Work on building a "robust" society, capable of withstanding errors, in which the role of finance (hence debt) would be minimal. We want a society in which people can make mistakes without risk of total collapse. Silicon Valley offers a good example, where people have the chance to fail fast (and repeatedly).
The best blueprint is the very opposite of the Obama administration's economic policies (its foreign policy is commendable). It has been administering pain-killers without addressing the cause of disease. Obama is strengthening those who do the wrong thing. Take the "cash for clunkers" programme. It is a handout to those who bought the wrong – uneconomic – car. He is penalising people who did not make a mistake. The same applies to other "rescues". By raising taxes after the crisis, the administration is hampering evolution. Those who do well in difficult times end up paying more tax and those who lost money in the crisis pay less. The rich who got us here are being rescued by regular Joes and being subsidised by the tax system.
Obama is giving the large institutions that failed us, like the IMF and the World Bank, even more powers. He is increasingly dependent on the visionary expert who failed us and does not understand the properties of complex systems and stifling long traditions of wisdom in understanding risk. Just consider the players: Larry Summers, director of the National Economic Council (who, among other things, made both Harvard University and the banking system more fragile), Bernanke (who increased reliance on the error-prone "models") and Tim Geithner, secretary of the US Treasury (who failed to understand that property prices can take extreme deviations).
I am particularly depressed because, having been disappointed by George W Bush, I had high hopes for Obama. David, spare us from such hubris.
Yours, Nassim
Nassim Nicholas Taleb, author of The Black Swan, is a professor of risk engineering at New York University.
Tyler - Can you post the contact info for comments? It's in the pdf, just want to make sure people see it.
Although carbon markets would do a lot of good, they will only do horrible things if GS and JPM have anything to do with them.
They illegally overtaxed you back then through government scams and are just sitting on billions of it. Tax surpluses is stealing from tax payers. Time to get that money back and force them to lower taxes.
good articles; good articles 4 slow news day ..http://www..
hat tip: finance news & finance opinions