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CFTC's Chilton Admits Silver Market Subject To "Fraudulent" Influences, Says Manipulation Should Be Prosecuted

Tyler Durden's picture


If this is not some nasty and quite early April Fool's joke, this is very, very bad news for JPMorgan:


Now... where are all of those tin foil hats...

The below has just appeared on Reuters. It seems the CFTC has its cross sights on quote stuffers. It is about damn time.

The U.S. futures
regulator laid out plans on Tuesday for how it could use new and
beefed-up legal tools to foil traders who seek to manipulate prices or
defraud investors.

The Commodity Futures Trading
Commission said it also wants to ask for comments on whether to crack
down on certain practices used by high-frequency traders -- such as
"quote-stuffing" -- but it stopped short of immediately proposing new
rules specifically aimed at algorithmic trading.

its latest set of proposed regulations following a sprawling Wall
Street reform law, the CFTC sought to clear up some confusion about its
traditional test for price manipulation, an effort to improve on its
dismal record of having won only one such case in its 36-year history.

rule, which will apply to all markets overseen by the CFTC, including
swaps, also creates a "broad, catch-all anti-fraud provision" that does
not require the CFTC to prove a trader fully intended to cause fraud,
CFTC officials said.

The agency's
only successful manipulation prosecution was against a broker charged
with manipulating settlement prices for electricity futures in 1998.

More recently, manipulation charges against four propane traders with BP (BP.L)(BP.N)
were dismissed by a judge, who called the law "confusing and
incomplete." BP agreed to pay a record $303 million to settle related

CFTC officials who briefed
reporters on the new package of proposed regulations declined to say
whether the rules would have helped them make their case against the
propane traders.

The agency's five
commissioners, including Chairman Gary Gensler, will vote at a public
hearing on Tuesday on whether to advance the proposal for public comment
for 60 days.

After staff consider
whether to make changes based on comments, the commissioners will need
to vote again to finalize the plan by next July.

new rule seeks to marry existing anti-fraud and anti-manipulation
authorities together with a new section that "fills in all the gaps", an
official told reporters.

regulations address "plain vanilla" person-to-person fraud, and price
manipulation, such as market "corners" or "squeezes", he said.

the new provision could capture manipulative trading activity that
"could potentially fall out of one of those two buckets", he said.

price manipulation cases required the agency to prove traders had the
intent and ability to manipulate prices, tried to do so, and caused an
"artificial price".

That four-part
standard will continue to exist, but the CFTC included guidance that
"artificial price" means a price affected by illegitimate market forces,
the official said.


The Dodd-Frank law also requires the CFTC
specifically to ban three disruptive trading practices as of July 16,
2011 -- a ban that does not require new regulations to take effect.

are "spoofing", whereby traders make bids or offers but cancel them
before execution, and "banging the close" -- acquiring a substantial
position leading up to the close of trade, then offsetting the position
in the final moments to manipulate the closing price.

agency has no obligation on whether to go further, but wants to gather
more comments during the next two months about whether it should close a
potential loophole in the spoofing ban, or prohibit any other practices
deemed disruptive.

That will
include "quote stuffing" -- flooding the market with large numbers of
rapid-fire orders and then canceling them almost immediately -- a
practice that some have argued contributed to the May 6 stock market
"flash crash."

The agency will also ask whether it needs to write rules requiring traders to test and monitor their algorithms.

months, CFTC commissioners have said the agency needs to use its new
powers to counter disruptive trades made by high-frequency algorithms.

Chilton, a Democratic commissioner, and Scott O'Malia, a Republican,
have said regulators should hold traders responsible for "rogue algos"
that hurt markets.


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Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:45 | 677367 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Silver bullet to the head bitchez!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:04 | 677653 Slash
Slash's picture

yeah ok.....all talk........I'll believe it when I see someone in cuffs.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:37 | 677751 frankTHE COIN
frankTHE COIN's picture

Preferrably leopard lined, with a hint of pink.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:52 | 678110 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

I was wondering what heck was going with the silver chart today until I read the news.

Great! Nail JPM's naked @$$!!!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:46 | 677774 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

 One down!


The CFTC's only successful manipulation prosecution was against a broker charged with manipulating settlement prices for electricity futures in 1998.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:08 | 677834 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Quite a record for 35 years of market oversight.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 17:55 | 678854 WaterWings
WaterWings's picture

The new rule seeks to marry existing anti-fraud and anti-manipulation authorities together with a new section that "fills in all the gaps", an official told reporters.

And now they are consolidating all the Crusaders for Troof! Don't worry folks! We're on it! 

This ain't the wind of change - it's that quiet moment before nuclear detonation.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 18:39 | 678964 knukles
knukles's picture

Reminds me of rumblings from stool softeners.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:23 | 678025 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Cuffs?,screw that, ROPES!.

If shit doesn't start improving we are going to a re-visit  French Revolution moment.

Wait till those 16 million folks stop getting extended  U E Bene's.

THAT is the only reason we are still in any semblance of order.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:33 | 678401 ratava
ratava's picture

the key is in the interpretation of FRAUDULENT by the current establishment. we mean taxing silver with VAT in EU. they mean us being long electronically, thus speculating on their incompetence. 

Thu, 10/28/2010 - 08:16 | 682859 mogul rider
mogul rider's picture

you have a point, there will never be trials becuase Americans will never rise up. Instead they'll sit down in front of their 72 inch TV's and immerse themselves into TMZ hoping,, jsut hoping, that it'll all go away and they too can return to serfdom where it's warm and safe

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:40 | 677754 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

The prosecutions don't matter to me - what I'm interested in is the effect that this has on price.  If my understanding is correct then we're about to witness the end of entrenched price suppression which might mean a very large pay day at JPMorgans expense - this is great news for all silver bulls! 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:29 | 678049 DosZap
DosZap's picture


I am with you on the EFFECT.

However, we WERE a nation of LAWS.

If these are not applied to everyone, we are setting a stage for a really bad ending.

People can and will come to a break point,we are not far from it.

Just like this CROOKED assed voting in Nevada, touch screen voting, already checked for REID,when the lady wanted to vote for Angle, the same thing happened to aroung FIVE others there.

If you can't win by pop vote,CHEAT.

Folks have had enough of this shit, and are more tired of eating it.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:33 | 678060 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

   "The prosecutions don't matter to me"...

   Nice, "I don't car about justice as long as I get my payday".... Isn't that exactly how we got here?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:55 | 678697 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

Please don't give me a bleeding heart moralising lecture - you can kiss my arse.  This free for all is every man for himself and I'm happy to suffer survivor guilt rather than be gobbled up and shit out by these gangsters.  Anyway, they don't need prosecuting they need electrocuting, but they'll let them off.  The system does the exact opposite of what common sense and decency would normally dictate.  So you play 'em as you find 'em. Whatever happens to them is not something I am concerned about.

PS: Just in case you're wondering I don't junk people.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:27 | 678591 Turd Ferguson
Turd Ferguson's picture

Important comments from Dan Norcini:


Posted: Oct 26 2010     By: Dan Norcini      Post Edited: October 26, 2010 at 2:05 pm

Filed under: Trader Dan Norcini

Dear CIGAs,

The silver market was abuzz with news today about CFTC Commissioner, Bart Chilton, concerns over price manipulation. The fact that he has come out so publicly took many, outside the camp of GATA and others, by surprise and lit a fire under that market which took it up into a resistance area near $24 on the charts. Strength in silver then worked to pull up gold which had been under pressure from the falling Euro and the subsequent bounce towards 78 in the Dollar.

You have to wonder about the many who have insulted GATA and its fine work over the years and ridiculed them in such a derogatory fashion whether they will now have the common decency to apologize for their shameless and contemptuous treatment of my friends Bill Murphy and Chris Powell and all the other dedicated members of the GATA board. The fact that Commissioner Chilton has come out so forcefully and chosen to use the words, “fraudulent” and “devious” in regards to the silver market is remarkable for its clarity and frankness. He was careful not to come to a conclusion about actual manipulation but as he pointed out, attempted manipulation is an entirely different matter. Based on his own words, it is evident that he strongly believes that attempted manipulation has been occurring regularly.

From here on, those who refer to GATA and its supporters as “the tin foil hat” crowd are only making fools out of themselves and revealing themselves to be mere hacks of the bullion bank crowd. GATA can no longer be dismissed as some sort of rogue band of disgruntled “gold bugs” but as the fine group of people that they are; people who share a genuine concern for the integrity of our financial markets and whose tireless research and efforts on the part of the precious metals markets deserves to be given the respect that is due to any organization which has produced work of the nature and quality that GATA has. I am not holding my breath however; very few are able to conquer their own pride and remain slaves to it all their lives. It takes a man of real character to admit he was wrong. Generally speaking, the most vocal opponents of GATA seem lacking in this department.

Hats off also to Commissioner Chilton for having the integrity to follow through on this even in the face of what no doubt must have been some very strong opposition. It is refreshing to see a man who actually takes what he does seriously and is working in the interests of the general public and not just a few favored special interests. If you have not done so, please take the time to send him an email encouraging him and thanking him for his efforts. So often men in his position only get emails or letters haranguing them

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:45 | 677368 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

All Manipulation should be prosecuted, tin foil hat not required.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:20 | 677500 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

No one will ever get prosecuted. Sad, yet true. JPM was already found guilty of charging PM storage fees to their clients yet they never purchased and held said asset and all they did was pay a small 'fee' (no jail time). As such, this is a two-fold fraud as they took money for storage of non-existent metals PLUS they never purchased said metals and thus taking out of the open market where it would find its true value accordingly.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:32 | 677538 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

My take is when the Government officials start talking about Market manipulation they are ready to indict people.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:45 | 677592 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

I know your right,  I am just dreaming.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:57 | 677810 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

I think the politico's have now decided the banksta's are too much of a liability.  They will throw them to the wolves in an attempt to save themselves.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:24 | 678032 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

      "I think the politico's have now decided the banksta's are too much of a liability"

 Does this mean no more botox?.... and $500 haircuts? ..... "The horror"

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:36 | 678446 TuesdayBen
TuesdayBen's picture

A few of my ex-girlfriends would be frightened to hear that...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:47 | 677373 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:21 | 677504 espirit
espirit's picture

Proof is in the puddin'.  Show me the silver, the prosecution, or any evidence that this intent is more than idle worthless words, and I'll apply the appropriate credibility.

I'll repeat these worthy words:

With gold or silver

in possession,

one can choose which fiat has the best potential,

 if any.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:47 | 677374 Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

The shine is wearing off Jamie Dimon's silver studs?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:54 | 677802 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Urgent note to ZH-member JonNadler!

Your position there as Sr. VP at JPM is in danger!  Please call Jamie ASAP!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:51 | 678274 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

Am calling, DoChen am calling, the sob won't pick up! Oh my, am lost, even my JP Morgan bodyguard goons didn't show up to protect me today! My platinum card is not working! And Chilton? Jamie assured me he was in the payroll!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:18 | 678365 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Touché, JonNadler!

I hope you were able to loot a case of Lafite when you had your chance!

Maybe the goons have been let go as well?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:49 | 677380 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Since the silver market is heavily manipulated and JP Morgan is quite strong, why not try something else. Say cotton, much stronger fundamentals and less manipulation. The Chinese are buying every bale of cotton in the world! No shorts can fight the Chinese Dragon!!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:57 | 677418 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Been making a lot of money over the past year buying greater than 3% dips in any commodity and selling intraday the next day. 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:59 | 677634 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Will I need to get a bigger floor safe?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:21 | 678019 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

Yes you will, and dump the Tin Foil hat, upgrade to Silver Foil, as I have.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:43 | 678237 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Does silver foil have a shiny side? If not, how can you tell which side should face out?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:51 | 678269 24KGOLD FOIL HAT
24KGOLD FOIL HAT's picture

I am hammering and shaping my 995Platinum foil hat.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:02 | 677645 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Eigen, you cannot eat, store or actually use your cotton positions in any place outside of the corrupt system. 

Add the fact that currentsea manipulation and potential "controls" coming, whether on capital flows or even commodity flows (rare earths as an example), staying and playing inside the belly of the beast just does not make sense anymore.

Even if you took other Ag. futures like wheat (the russia export ban story), all ags are headed up. 

But the place where they are traded is not to be trusted. The new mantra seems to be, "All trades can be unwound".




Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:19 | 677698 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Just one question for your Highness. The other day when China announced that they are cutting Silver exports by 34% why didn't the price move?

I would expect a 1/3 cut from such a large supplier in a rare earth that has an overwhelming demand to set off a crackboom in price.

What gives Oh Regional one?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:43 | 677766 tmosley
tmosley's picture

People don't care about supply of silver, as it has never been supply constrained in their trading lifetime.  Supply won't matter until there is none, and then it will be the only thing that matters.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:47 | 677777 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

+1! I like your jokes. They are funny.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:20 | 677860 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Ok, I don't think you understand what I mean.  Let's say that the silver market is a guy.  He has a job, and gets paid on a regular basis, in the form of silver coming out of silver mines.  He also has expenses, in the form of silver used for industry or investment (physical delivery of silver).  Now, he has a bank account called the COMEX.  He has been depositing money from his mines in said bank account for decades, which they gladly took, and gave him certificates saying he had the silver in the account.  Now, over the last 30 or so years, Mr. Market has been spending more silver than he puts into the bank, but the COMEX has been falsifying his statements, saying he has more silver than he has.  As such, he has not moderated his spending.  Currently, he is spending twice as much as he makes in a year.  Mr. Market knows this, as this has been the case for decades, but he has extra savings in an account called SLV.  Thing is, the silver that is supposed to be in that savings account isn't there--it was lent to Mr. Market himself for more spending long ago!  What happens when he goes to make a withdrawal, and there is no silver in either account?  How is Mr. Market going to pay his bills?

Simple, he's going to have to clamp down on his spending, and do anything in his power to get more silver.  This means higher prices, as consumption of silver must be brought in line with production, but this won't happen until there is a default, or until the COMEX admits to the fraud that has been going on.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:37 | 677902 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Circular logic makes Tarzan sleepy.

I say outlaw silverware and replace it with plastic-ware and demand for silver in manufacturing would come to a halt overnight.

Silver price would be bad, Tarzan like.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:29 | 677778 andy55
andy55's picture

Separate but related story...   I've owned a double digit number of 1000 oz silver bullion bars at Monex for almost two years now and am researching taking delivery by opening an individual account at the same depository used by Monex (Delaware Depository Company).  This way, "delivery" will amount to bars (i.e. serial numbers) being allocated to my account and will be completely out of the bullion trading/paper system.

The more I dig, the more I uncover that companies like Monex really just own a very small number of allocated units (and meanwhile scalp profits off their clients trades and/or charging leasing fees for paper assets that only exist internally).  In other words, Monex and bullion "banks" like them have a surprisingly scary implied reserve ratio, which allows them to massively multiply revenues while keeping costs constant.  Try asking them to disclose any records about the ratio of silver claims vs allocated holdings and watch how fast that becomes an "unreasonable" and "unusual" request.

My research shows that to store and insure at a depository (in my case the Delaware Depository Co, the main depository used by Monex), it's 0.75% (annualized) times the spot value of the account.  At current prices this is about $180 per 1000 oz bar per year.  Meanwhile, Monex charges a flat fee of $60/year per bar ($5, billed monthly).  So right there that shows Monex must have less than 1/3 of their total client claims allocated in order to break even with depository service costs alone. Segregated accounts at DDC (Monex would need to have a segregated account), are 1.5% times spot value of the account, meaning Monex has to use a reserve ratio of about *1:6* just to break even! 

So if people ever start taking delivery of silver bullion from these banks, silver prices will see a discontinuous jump as all the Monexes of the world are forced to buy to cover holes made by clients taking delivery.  Now, how likely are grandma and grampa to take delivery of a 1000 oz bars weighing 62 pounds each?  Not likely at all, so this allows companies like Monex to use a scary silver reserve ratio (probably less than 10%) -- and get away with it!  Who knows how low the reserve ratio *actually* is for these private institutions, and if/when things do break down, then a LOT of them will blow up and leave people who thought they owned bars with nothing but paper claims to a company filing for bankruptcy. 

No thanks.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:31 | 677884's picture

1000 oz bars weighing 62 pounds each

Converting troy ounces to avoirdupois yields 68.75 pound bars.

1000 x 1.1 / 16 = 68.75

Without the conversion 1000 troy ounces equals 83.33 troy pounds.

1000 / 12 = 83.33

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:38 | 677891 andy55
andy55's picture

There ya go -- can't say I have much experience with bullion weight conversion, so thanks for the correction there.  Anyway, methinks grams and gramps will be just as unlikely to take delivery of even one bar until it's too late.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:40 | 677911 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Silver, gold etc: 12 oz= 1 pound  1 oz= 31.14 grams

Avoirdupois 16 oz= 1 pound  1 oz= 28 grams

12x31 =372 grams/28= approx. 14 oz

PM's weigh more per oz but less per pound than you are used to.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:33 | 677892 Spigot
Spigot's picture

By all means, and as quickly as possible, get out of MONEX. They messed me over back in the late 90's and I can assure you that they will try to do that to you as well. Its like entrusting the security of virgins to a gang of rapists.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:29 | 678047 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture


So they were still at it in the late 90s?

I had the Monex "experience" back in the early 80's.  They might have been new then but my experience was the same as yours. 

Got out and stayed away. 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:39 | 677905 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Very interesting indeed. 

So, are you going to take full physical in your basement now?

I think you should. 


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:47 | 678255 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

For people that can affored 1000oz bars they should be able to buy a safe in take some delivery not all.  Even a start of the flow from out of the depositories will influence the price.

Hell they could dig a hole and cover it in cement and put a flag on top.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:08 | 677833 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

MeTuJ, two things give.

1. Silver is not counted as a rare earth element  like all the un-namable rare earth's are. Here is a good article, giving you a real rare earth update. So, the two stories are not connected. Plus, as you will read, genuine rare earth's are at the heart of a lot of newtech. Also, a lot of Industrial silver users have industrial silver stock (Physical). Not so with RE's.

2. Silver is a highly manipulated/leveraged market. Not true for RE's, nowhere at the same scale and nowhere in the same monetary volume and most importantly, nowhere as important in the "monetary" big picture.

A few more things give, but I'll spend the time to write if you spend the time to read.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:39 | 677907 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

Siverware --> plasticware. Tarzan sleepy now.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:08 | 678151 DosZap
DosZap's picture

People do not realize China does not MINE this Silver.

It's brought in as sludge, trailings, and refined by CHINESE workers.

As they are expendable.The chemicals left in this silver sludge is deadly,as are the fumes given off in the separation of same.Nations that cannot refine it,(human rights) send it to China, because they do not care how many of their peoples die from the exposure to this shit.

Also, use of silver has outstripped supply, and it IS going up now...........

I look for it to be $50.00 an ounce very soon,it is going to stop trailing Gold$, as it's supply will be very  limited.


Rare earths is another piece of Caca, Rare earths are not rare.

The Chinese saw the train coming, and became the PRIMARY refiner of them.( they do have large supplies).

Rare (so called Rare) earths, are all over the globe.

We have ALL we need stateside, plus.

We just have no mines/refineries for it.

Why?, because until now,the cost of mining and refining it was not cost effective at all.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:55 | 678284 Infinite QE
Infinite QE's picture

Good stuff

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:37 | 678451 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Good points all DosZap.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:50 | 677383 primefool
primefool's picture

Maybe we should outsource our justice dept to the Chinese. They know how to deal with violators of the law.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:33 | 677544 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

With hidden courts and executions? Oh yeah...stone age stuff.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:53 | 677616 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

We don't want stone age stuff; we want medieval stuff.


"You hear me talkin', hillbilly boy?"

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:10 | 678158 DosZap
DosZap's picture

A lot of our fellow citizens need someone to go medieval on their asses.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:50 | 677385 strenue
strenue's picture

I have a Chinese dragon on my cotton shorts...

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:54 | 677408 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

Is it a gold dragon or a brown one?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:55 | 677411 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Are you seriously short cotton? All of the national reserves in China have been depleted. Since planting cotton is such an unprofitable business in China even at the current price level, cotton will probably go much higher next year.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:24 | 677708 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

I think he means that what is in his underwear is breathing fire.

He needs a shot of Penicillin or antibiotic to make the dragon stop breathing fire(stop the burning pain).

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:10 | 677465 Cow
Cow's picture

I shot an elephant in my pajamas the other day

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:32 | 677537 SWCroaker
SWCroaker's picture

I'll bite.  How the heck did an elephant ever fit into your pajamas?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:44 | 677768 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

would that qualify as junk in the trunk?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:45 | 677769 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

He's big boned!?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:02 | 678303 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

"We took some pictures of the native girls but they weren't developed...but we're going back again in a couple of weeks."

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:51 | 677387 ashtray
ashtray's picture

Special Jail made of Silver for Jamie Dimon 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:03 | 678304 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Iron Maiden

Thu, 10/28/2010 - 01:02 | 682506 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

I like it, but too quick.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:51 | 677392 Bill Lumbergh
Bill Lumbergh's picture

Is this an early April Fool's Day?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:56 | 677628 AbandonShip
AbandonShip's picture

 Maybe The Onion is masquerading as ZH today.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:52 | 677395 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

The saturation of news that the entire financial system is crooked to the foundation is almost tedious now. It's like hearing stories of friendly fire or collateral damage during the Gulf Warz. It's sad how we become desensitized. The flip side to this is how roundly ignored this is by the populace. Or, are they aware of it and now completely convinced that any form of resistance is completely futile? 

The only thing that will get any more than an eyebrow raise from me, or most people, is some indication of people getting off the sofa to react. 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:58 | 677424 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

React how?  I've bought bullion, as have some of my very wealthy family members.  I have withdrawn all monies from the stock market and only hold minimum amounts in a community bank to service bills.  I have met with my congressman and tried to encourage him to do something.  I have called hundreds of times to other ranking members of the house.  I have been on national television and local media screaming about these issues, as well as throughout my neighborhood.  I have stiffed some of the biggest banks who were offenders of this fraud.  Most of these actions seem to fall short of any goal. 

An armed conflict initiated by an army of one would be fruitless.  So what the fuck can we do? 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:14 | 677480 shortus cynicus
shortus cynicus's picture

introduce direct democracy

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:24 | 677502 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

You want to introduce mob rule to govern?  Good luck with that.  So what happens then?  The people I talk to about fraud in my neck of the woods would simply shrug their way back into a pharmacological trance of television watching and masturbation.  You want them to make the decisions?  How about we enforce the rule of law again? 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:49 | 677607 justbuygold
justbuygold's picture

I have to at least respect the citizens of France for fighting back and taking it to the streets.  Right now America is nothing but a massive corruption machine and yet its citizens just sit on the couch and watch programs like "Glee" or "Dancing with the Stars" .  Get up off your asses and protest and protest until something gets done. " Power of the people " and " power of the pen"  !!!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:55 | 677621 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I do as well.  Hell, I would be more than willing to go to the streets.  I have good protective motorcycle gear, so I could take a couple of baton shots from the police.  I could fill up some balloons with paint as to toss and obscure their view from their little helmets and shields.  I have a gas mask and can take a couple of canisters of paint.  I'll go to the front lines.  The question is who else could I rally to do the same?  Who wants to meet at the Cleveland Federal Reserve tomorrow?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:59 | 677637 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:08 | 677668 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I had to google and translate that.  HAHAH

Violence is not the best option, but I don't know what other options are left.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:19 | 678179 DosZap
DosZap's picture


If the corruption starting ALREADY in early voting puts the same SOB's, back in, and we know they really lost, but by c=virtue of Chi Town Plolitics DO get back in, you will get your wish.

The Tea Party is the precursor, to the last resort citizens have.I will be with you, but it won't be with paint.

IF,God forbid, it comes to that.I would like to finish out my life, in relative peace.

If it's not to be, so be it.

Folks on the East & West coast, that look down on flyover country Americans, will be very happy we are around if the SHTF.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:07 | 677665 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Perhaps one way to achieve critical mass is to work from within existing organizations that protest current policies, in order to expand their list of grievances to include the financial reaming everyone is getting.  These guys ( are active in SF; perhaps there's an equivalent group in Cleveland. If not, here's a great 3-minute TED video on how to start a movement:

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:39 | 677908 merehuman
merehuman's picture

take marbles to toss at the enemys feet. Women with children should be in front. Would a policeman dare fire on women and children? And dont put the police in a position where they have to fire! Bring them gifts and drinks and sing a happy song with smiles on your faces.

If they tell us to disperse or they will fire , then lay down instead of run, or run ..right at them, men first.

If they fire on the women, men should take hostile action, protect the women by charging the enemy.

I like beehives, our men on roofs and behind the scenes, privetly going after the actual criminals with snipers and house fires.


This is war, has been for a long time against 99% of us.

Oil in balloons would be my weapon were i a gulf fishermen or coreexit victim..

having said the above i wonder how long before i am arrested just for saying this. Come arrest me assholes, i wont go down alone and it will be a good beginning.  I protested the vietnam war, but did my time in the army. been payen taxes and being honest.

Uncle Sam , i am tired of your shit and FU.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:30 | 678051 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+++++++++ merehuman!

If/when TSHTF, I am still pondering The Question:

Should I stay or should I go?

Stay and fight or take my capital to Peru.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:59 | 678126 merehuman
merehuman's picture

Roll hat bearing to Peru. There are enuff suckers and victims here. Its not a fair fight and will last a long time. First loyalty is to self and family.

If you can get out, then do so. This is first and foremost. The one i care for cannot be moved so i will stay.

 I see no hope for a decent future in the near term in the USA. At 59, with a declining desire for the earth/material life i am more willing to forfeit my remaining life term. as older folks ned to help the younger folk any way we can since we helped put them in this mess.

Yes, go to Peru.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:08 | 677669 robobbob
robobbob's picture


sorry, but protesting that the banksters are taking away your candy that was bought with borrowed money is not productive social change.

At best, gaint distraction, at worst, setting the stage for the man on a white horse selling the latest ponzi financed control mechanism.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:14 | 677683 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

The bankers speculated with the pensions that these workers were forced to pay into. When the bankers fell on their face, the governments made them whole.  Now they are coming after the pensioners.  This is a classic example of government awarding the winnings to the losers and someone has to do something about it. May I suggest you watch the following. - should you only have 8 minutes to take a look at all of this, I would highly recommend watching the second video in this link.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:11 | 677985 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

That needed to be said Dr. Too many dupes out there unwittingly aligning themselves with the side that couldn't give a bag of ratz whether they live or die.

Plutocratic mantra:

"...and don't we have half the fools on our side? And ain't that a big enough majority in any town?" -Samuel Clemens


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:42 | 677762 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

The rule of law is a fiction as most people understand it. The law is written by the elites, for the elites and benefits the elites. These people will walk or face fines that are inconsequential to the rape they have profited from. 

The "rule of law" is the problem. Governments are the problem. The abolishment of both and the return of liberty is the best answer in a world where a select minority will always tyrannize the majority. It is not a perfect solution, just a preferable one.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:55 | 677801 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

Common Law says there are really only three crimes all offenses fall into; harm against a person, harm against another's property, and representing oneself fraudulently.  Most of the “laws” people refer are nothing more than ordinances or government edicts that have nothing to do with the three offenses listed above.  The enforcers of these decrees have been so brainwashed into thinking the thousands of pages of documents passed in governments across the world are worth enforcing, but those enforcers often neglect the true crimes that have been committed. 

If we are ever to have a chance, we need to change the minds of these enforcers about the triviality of ordinances and statutes and instead focus on common law. 

We need to get the enforcers to stop looking at statutes and instead find the injured party.  I can’t change the minds of the regulators, but I can start with local police.  For instance, how about asking a police officer who the injured party is in a speeding incident - YouTube - Traffic Stop_0002.wmv

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:09 | 677838 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"Common Law says there are really only three crimes all offenses fall into; harm against a person, harm against another's property, and representing oneself fraudulently."

Indeed ... exactly as we teach our kids at age 2: Don't lie; Don't cheat; Don't steal; Don't hit. It doesn't get much simpler than that! Anything beyond that can be addressed in individual contracts between contracting parties.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:44 | 677923 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I agree wholeheartedly with both of you. The only necessary law is the protection of private property.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:43 | 678079 Montgomery Burns
Montgomery Burns's picture

No one. That is until you smash into and kill my wife and kids doing 120mph. You may have sense enough not to drive that fast after leaving the bar during a snowstorm but does your 16 y/o son?

Yea, fuck it. No rules until someone is injured !

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:04 | 678136 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Have the present rules stopped this from happening? It is always resolved ex post. Private property laws/ common law are just as efficient and at less cost to you. 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:25 | 678586 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

you are getting lost in translation here. My point is that the enforcers could indeed be focusing their efforts on aspects of true property damage instead of trying to prevent it.  It is analagous to the SEC.  There are wonderful rules for this that and the other and so much time is spent trying to prevent theft that they miss the theft all together.  The thief was rewarded and the victim is asked to give the thief more.  This is insane. 

As far as the speeding is concerned, I wasn't doing 120.  If someone is doing so they will face the consequences.  I am prepared to face the consequences, but there is a difference between wreckless and speeding.  At the end of the day though, property rights should be inforced.  If property is damaged, person or property, then restitution should be delivered.  It should matter not the means of the property damage other than understanding how the property damage took place.

All of the governmental enforcement figures I have encountered will forcus on the "you could have" rather than the "you already did."

Stay in your comfortable little world of the police and other enforcement figures are simply trying to protect you.  We need more rules already.  That will lead to utopia for sure.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:28 | 677523 BobPaulson
BobPaulson's picture

You are a complete anomaly. I wasn't referring to the 3 sigma super-engaged like you. Even I have only bought solid assets and begun preparing a rural property, while ranting regularly at my friends.

I guess it will take the people who have really been shafted to start throwing bricks.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:37 | 677562 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

I feel unengaged now anyway.  It just seems like it is pissing in the wind anymore. The initial release always feels amazing, but the wind bloweth it right back into my face.

The most recent thing I have done was to challenge my current mortgage holder to the fact that they are the current note holder.  Turns out I am dealing with a reputable bank over at 5/3.  Looks like they didn't get involved in the MBS BS. 

I tried and now I will go back to sleep the best that I can.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:51 | 677790 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

Then you are not alone - I'm staring at family and friends trying to get them to act - its the sinking ship syndrome - I'll end up with survivor guilt, but at least I'll get to live with that.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:57 | 677809 Dr. Richard Head
Dr. Richard Head's picture

At the end of the day you do this and they still wish to sleep, then fuck em. I have done this with many a family and friend.  Some ofthem have come back and started to ask questions.  You can only control yourself at the end of the day.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:33 | 678059 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

When the Titanic set sail, most people believed it was unsinkable. When it hit a iceberg and started taking on water, members of the ship staff went around knocking on doors and telling people to get up, get dressed and get on deck to disembark to the life boats. Many of the people told them to get lost and leave them alone and they went back to sleep. The Titanic is sinking now and nobody seems to care or notice. I have said it once and I will continue saying it. The life we have known is over. The new reality sets in now.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 19:54 | 679130 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

I absolutely agree.  I'm looking at selling up and moving.  Seriously.  I've tried to get my wife to listen and the glazed look is sadly something I have come to expect.  The difference this time is that I'm being serious and this new reality will come to dawn on her before too long.  The question is where is safe?  We stand on both sides of the Pond but it looks nightmarish at either end.  What to do??  

Wed, 10/27/2010 - 09:35 | 680257 chopper read
chopper read's picture

i admire your actions.  you're not alone.  keep it up!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:36 | 677458 GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

"The only thing that will get any more than an eyebrow raise from me, or most people, is some indication of people getting off the sofa to react. "

And if they go that far they are immediately caricatured by the likes of WB7 as "Wingnutz", or end up actually being co-opted by some and are so discredited.

"They got the guns, but we got the numbers..."

The recreant hate it when they get shown up, after all, and will accept almost any excuse not to 'get involved'.

"5 to one, one in 5. No one here gets out alive..." anyway. Just sayin'.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:14 | 678347 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I think your idea about the Fed is a good one but it needs to start at both the U.S. and N.Y. Fed banks.  A protest, sitdown, sign rally, hunger strike, right in front of both those or all the federal reserves.

Internet alternative media coverage would help if the MSM blacks it out as news.

There is plenty of room around the Fed in DC for a protest.  NY not so much.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:55 | 677404 UnRealized Reality
UnRealized Reality's picture

Should of, Could of, Would of. Blah blah blah

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:37 | 677559 Hansel
Hansel's picture

+1,  What I hear from Chilton is, "We are fully aware of the crimes, but we can't prosecute because there just aren't enough rules."  F'n garbage.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:04 | 677648 trav7777
trav7777's picture

"have," not "of," jfc, or use the damned contraction, "'ve."  WTH happened to language competency? 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:56 | 677412 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Now... where are all of those tin foil hats...

When you can no longer disparage the whistleblowers, you simply bury it with the help of the mainstream media. When that no longer works, you apply the political solution. This shell game is far from over. Let's not forget that companies are getting "To Big To Jail" cards directly from the White House and have been for several years.

I'm certain that if this little gem (below) was published, there are plenty of National Security and Presidential orders and directives we don't, and won't, know about that will indemnify these bastards. This is the reason there have been zero prosecutions.

Intelligence Czar Can Waive SEC Rules

Now, the White House's top spymaster can cite national security to exempt businesses from reporting requirements.

President George W. Bush has bestowed on his intelligence czar, John Negroponte, broad authority, in the name of national security, to excuse publicly traded companies from their usual accounting and securities-disclosure obligations. Notice of the development came in a brief entry in the Federal Register, dated May 5, 2006, that was opaque to the untrained eye.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:00 | 677434 Bill Lumbergh
Bill Lumbergh's picture

I feel like I am now living an Alex Jones documentary.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:06 | 677456 Blues Traveler
Blues Traveler's picture

LOL, Roots!

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:44 | 677590 Ludwig Van
Ludwig Van's picture


The metal just shot up like a teenage boner. If this news is worth nothing else, it's worth 40¢ an ounce.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:30 | 677733 MeTarzanUjane
MeTarzanUjane's picture

The charts and fundamentals are setting up for a decline in the shinysphere.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:01 | 677814 Ludwig Van
Ludwig Van's picture


I expect you're right. I've reviewed those same charts and fundamentals. Still we're on the other side of $21. That price-flattening that applied to Old Silver may not necessarily apply now. In other words, I think it's a different game now. I look to gold, as the breakaway metal, for clues. I know everyone's looking for an AG correction back down to $21, but I think the "correction" is in. There. I unzipped and put it out there. There appears to be strong support around $23.20 spot (thrice-tested). The stuff has been suppressed so long -- along with us silverbulls' expectations -- that like a basketball underwater (cliche, sorry) I'm seeing its path of least resistance up.

Of course we can't -- won't -- believe it.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:07 | 677457 sweet ebony diamond
sweet ebony diamond's picture

"This is the reason there have been zero prosecutions."

I have a different opinion.

There have been zero prosecutions because the politicans and the banks are in bed together.

The politicians need "money" for development (and related jobs and related power and related corruption).

Where does the "money" come from?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:46 | 677596 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

When you don't wish to prosecute at the Federal level, the first thing you do is look for a reason not to prosecute. While politicians can pressure the prosecutors to back off, they still need a reason not to bring charges. Often they say they don't have evidence, but when I've looked at this closely I fail to find the specific lack of evidence. Which means they aren't telling us everything they know.

Also, the cases that have been brought were sloppy, not well thought out, pursuing the weakest links and so on. If you don't wish to advertise that there are directives or National Security policies that are protecting these banks etc, the best way to do so is to make believe you really are bringing cases to court. Just don't being your best case, then "settle" out of court.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:12 | 677679 trav7777
trav7777's picture

just had an argument w/ a coworker on why we need to end the government.  He thinks the sky would fall, like most people do these days.  Can't conceive of a time where we didn't have a $4T leviathan.

Having a gov't in the business of redistribution just creates a magnet for crooks, criminals, and cronies.

Wealth redistribution is what capitalism is...Rockefeller was redistributing wealth from his customers' pockets to his own.  His union labor wanted to redistribute from his to theirs.  This is market pricing power and capitalist structure at its finest.

Once you start trusting an AGENCY to collect the wealth and then dole it out, you end up with a mountain of thieves.  The money goes into the gov and ends up largely in the pockets of the cronies.  And because they have the "legitimacy" of law, their plenary authority over this is no longer challengeable.  It's no wonder that the larger the money flow to the gov gets, the more corruption we have.  It draws crooks like a flow of honey draws flies.

All of the populist functions best left to group self-expression, such as labor pricing or monetary creation, have been captured by the elites.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:25 | 677719 sweet ebony diamond
sweet ebony diamond's picture

I think people do need "a government".

How do "we the people" ensure a steady supply of energy, for example? Or good hygiene for everybody?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:51 | 677792 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Private enterprise and it will be cheaper- another dividend: no more hands in my wallet. Government is a consumer only, never a producer. Once you understand that, it gets simpler. Governments do not: create jobs, add to GDP or level the playing field. Governments do: consume, use police powers for theft, lie under the cover of secrecy and benefit a minority at the expense of the majority.

We are always promised wise rule, we always receive debt slavery. Our only protection is found in no government. Local leadership. Free markets. Sound money. No taxes. Citizen participation.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:56 | 677804 sweet ebony diamond
sweet ebony diamond's picture

So everyone will have a nuclear power station in their backyard?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:18 | 677850 i-dog
i-dog's picture

If they can afford it ... and can afford to indemnify their neighbours against possible harm ... then why not?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:44 | 677925's picture

So everyone will have a nuclear power station in their backyard?

Of course not. People will interact and build infrastructure through voluntary associations. You know -- it's like freedom, man.

You seem to believe that people can't work together unless they are threatened with government violence.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:51 | 677945 sweet ebony diamond
sweet ebony diamond's picture

No sir. I like your thinking.

My message to Obama & Company is:

I don't want Fascism

I don't want our children to be ass-kissing meth heads.

Change the system.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:59 | 677967's picture

Obama (or Bush or Palin or whoever) has neither the ability nor the right to change the system. The only moral and functional systems are those arrived at through voluntary association, interaction and exchange.

Only the individual is sovereign.


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:02 | 678132 downrodeo
downrodeo's picture

You can't just say pretty please and ask the system to dismantle itself. You may as well ask a malignant tumor to stop growing and consuming so many healthy cells.

Obama isn't going to change the system. It's up to you and me, friendo.

Unfortunately, I am a coward. I would give my life for a cause if I thought it was worth something. However, I won't start anything, because I don't believe that I have any support.

So, I will not be the one to throw the first stone, but maybe the third or fourth. I think that is a big part of the reason why nothing is happening yet. We're all waiting for someone else to throw the first stone.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:28 | 677881 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If they want it, then they'll pay for it.  If they have other priorities that are higher, then they will pay for that first.

What use is steady energy if you have no food?  What use is good hygiene when you have no water?  What use is education when you have no family?

Free markets allow for the perfect distribution of resources so that the maximum number of people's wants are fulfilled.  Any forceful interference with that equation only serves to fulfill the needs of the few at the expense of the many.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:45 | 677929 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:50 | 677944 merehuman
merehuman's picture

tmosley cuts truh the bullshit. Thanks.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:45 | 677928 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Here's the problem...I said we don't need a LEVIATHAN and you "hear" that I am saying we don't need a government at all.

This is a massive logical fallacy...don't do it again, please.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:55 | 677960 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You're almost there Trav. I suspect it is the loss of control- engineers have a hard time with that (for good reason).

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:09 | 677837 Attitude_Check
Attitude_Check's picture

We need a federal government for the original Constitutional reasons.  Dept. of State to negotiate with other countries, Dept of Commerce to ensure proper lawful operation of our economy (both national and international - along with State), and Department of War (Defense) when the first two fail in dealing with other nations.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:48 | 677938's picture

The moment you give others (supposedly limited) power over you they begin to exercise complete control. Only the individual is sovereign. Other paths lead to slavery. There is no middle of the road.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:52 | 677947 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

How is that working out for you? We don't negotiate, we invade. Lawful operation of our economy, really???, War- the last time we were invaded was in 1812 by Britain, our current overlords and partners in crime. 

Good government is a chimera. Sounds great on paper, in reality? Not so much. No government would not be perfect, just preferable to the alternative- oligarchy/ Plutocracy/ socialism/ crony capitalism- take your pick, the chains all have the same weight.



Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:37 | 678067 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

We were just in Tahiti and other islands in French Polynesia (25th Anniversary).  France rules with a very light hand.  So, politics there is all local.  

Unfortunately, the Polynesians elect scoundrels who give the best positions and contracts to their family, friends and cronies.  Just like everywhere else.

There is no paradise.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:07 | 678146 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Not as long as you abdicate authority. As long as it ultimately resides in the individual- you have minimized the opportunities for abuse. Government is government- regardless of the level it resides at. 

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 14:38 | 678220 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Fuckin a right.  Any nexus of power/control is doomed from the moment of its creation to attract power seakers like flies to shit.  No one with any morals or scrupels can survive the struggle to control power.  Control always falls to the most ruthless operater.  The larger and more powerful the power center, the more ruthless and criminal are its benificiaries.  This is one of those rare truths that are true 100% of the time, absolutely guaranteed.

Affinity and Consensus bitches  \o/  ftw.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 20:05 | 679151 Chappaquiddick
Chappaquiddick's picture

I think we actually need another layer of Government!  We need a global government and centralised coordination of effort - we must stop all this competition and start pulling together.  What the fuck are we running around like headless chickens for in the first place?

And don't trot out the right wing free market capitalist BS - if socialism is good enough for the rich - its good enough for everyone.  The thing is they've convinced almost everyone that its so bad as to be a crime or a mortal sin - and very many have swallow that BS hook line and sinker.

We need to pull together to face this and them, and they will try and pull us apart and prevent it.  Palin and Murdock => cloven hooves.  


Tue, 10/26/2010 - 13:47 | 678082 the rookie cynic
the rookie cynic's picture

Cog Dis,

According to Wikipedia, current National Intelligence James Clapper "played a key role in promoting the Bush administration’s claim that Iraq had weapons of mass destruction prior to the 2003 invasion.

Obama definitely has the right man for the job for such a (as you put it so well) "political solution."

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:56 | 677414 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Yeh, and I am not going to hold my breath waiting for this big event to take place.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 09:56 | 677416 hugolp
hugolp's picture

A judge of the CFTC admited to corruption for 20 years:


I believe this passed under the radar.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:29 | 677521 macholatte
macholatte's picture

thanks hugolp.

that article appeared somewhere else on ZH and I agree that it's germane to this discussion and worth a second look. Here's the first paragraph from the above link which I reproduce since it is simply astounding.....

Retiring CFTC Judge: We Covered Up Market Manipulation 10/20/10

NEW DEVELOPMENTS IN THE CFTC SCANDAL: On September 17, 2010, CFTC Administrative Law Judge, George H Painter, issued a "Notice and Order" announcing his retirement from his position. In this notice Judge Painter wrote of a conspiracy at the highest levels of the CFTC (within the ENFORCEMENT DIVISION) where a long time judge of 20 years has been conspiring with past CFTC Chairs to RIG THE ENFORCEMENT OF THE LAW by NOT finding ANYONE guilty of market manipulation. Here are Judge Painter's own words:

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:42 | 677574 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

No, it didn't. It was simply shrugged off. Even evidense of thoroughbred corruption is ignored, and the judge won't ever be asked to step down or (gasp!) sent to jail.

The politicians are bought and paid for, don't care about the corruption, and don't even care if you know it's ubiquitous. And if you think voting Republican or Democrat make one ounce of difference, then you need a wake up call.

No empire has ever outlived systemic corruption, and the American will be no different.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 10:58 | 677635 hugolp
hugolp's picture

The judge just retired. That is why he talked.

But yes, I agree.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:22 | 677709 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Levine wasn't the one retiring.

"George H Painter, issued a "Notice and Order" announcing his retirement from his position"...

"On Judge Levine's first week on the job, nearly twenty years ago, he came into my office and stated that he had promised Wendy Gramm, then Chairwoman of the Commission, that we would never rule in a complainant's favor."

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:28 | 677724 hugolp
hugolp's picture

I know. I assumed Levine was already gone since the guy is talking about him. But by what you say I guess I am wrong.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:01 | 677641 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

No empire has ever outlived systemic corruption, and the American will be no different.

I agree. But we can suffer for decades until the "sudden" collapse. We are barely halfway into our first decade of systemic and obvious corruption.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 11:19 | 677700 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

I'm not sure about that. The US spends $38 for every $22 she gains. Out of those $38, $22 are practically ring fenced (even the Republicans conveniently ignore these, and bang the drums over $1 saved elsewhere... a drop in the ocean), and with an increasing retiree count, Medicare/Medicaid spending will outstrip GDP growth. Which would essentially leave the US without road maintainance, public schools, or any other - what I consider - essentials of a modern society. Good luck with that.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:01 | 677818 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I don't doubt that things will become increasingly precarious. Just don't discount the level of pain the avergae Joe will suffer in order to deny they are suffering. And don't discount the desire of people to live with the horror they know and are currently experiencing (meaning present/future circumstances, no matter how bad they are) rather than deal with large and rapid systemic changes.

The USA is populated with political and social procrastinators. And our collective and individual egos are huge. No one wishes to believe they live within a failed state. That gives additional momentum to remaining within the current failed state.    

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 15:26 | 678392 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

No one wishes to believe they live within a failed state.

Nicely put CogDis!


In the year or so since you recommended that book (The Master and His Emissary), I have only been able to get half way through, and I READ!  Very interesting, but tough sledding, like your long posts.  Have to work, but worth it at the end.

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 16:37 | 678624 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

The great thing about writing my long articles is that after a few months I forget what I wrote. So when I read them again, I get to enjoy them all over again.

Or is that Alzheimer's?

Tue, 10/26/2010 - 12:28 | 677877 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

We are not an empire, but a land of laws, temporarily forgotten. Corruption, once exposed, cannot stand the light of day. Judge Levine is toast...every decision he makes now will be questioned, openly by more and more aggressive means until he's done.

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