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Is The Chairman's Plan To Kill The Dollar About To Be Derailed?
The Independent has released information that Arab States, along with China, Russia, Japan and France are about to end the dollar's hegemony. While snippets like this have been previously discussed, usually accompanied by lots of posturing, nothing firm had ever materialized. If the latest overture turns out to be real, that would be a dramatic hit to Ben Bernanke's attempt to inflate trillions of debt on the back of a rapidly devaluing reserve currency. Ironically, the end of the dollar's pain may now become Bernanke's new sad reality as with the loss of its reserve status, perpetual dollar devaluation becomes a moot point. Oh, and a side effect, first oil, and soon all other commodities, will soon stop being priced in USDs.
From The Independent:
In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.
Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.
The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.
h/t Deadhead
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It was inevitable that the economies which stand to be harmed the most by the dollar would try to find a way to de-couple from it. The next act in this play is sabre-rattling. The denoument is war, most likely on a world-wide scale.
When the dust has settled, the history writers will ask the obvious question: Why did the Americans allow a handful of bankers to not only destroy their economy, but to drive the once-great country into a ruinous depression and an even more ruinous war?
Please keep it down! I'm watching a Tivo Jerry Springer show, then Lost. Honey, bring me another beer!
CNBS is showing that Porn special for the 18th consecutive day if anyone is interested.
Oil and gold pricing will halt in USDs if there is a currency crisis
Otherwise known as "Backwardation".
you are exactly correct...i should have read your
comments before responding below....
the wealthy are generally smarter and certainly
much better organized than the mass
electorate especially when confronted with the
mystical magic of strong delusion served up
by "higher" education and the the cia-fed controlled
media...the sheeple are no match for that
jaugernaut....
but the lord god yahushua will deliver us....the
powers of hell shall not prevail against him....
and we shall be delivered from both tyranny and
the grave....mammon will be slayed.
ah sorry, some of us are waiting for Revelations to be over so we can finally close the Book and begin a new chapter, thank you.
Hopefully the denouement will be "fuck oil" and the administration will push at least electric vehicle production into overdrive, there are a lot of smart people here in the US. Put them to work on the oil dependency issue before we lose them.
It's not going to work if we tie our future to the regulation of "CO2". Drop that, and we can do it. Of course the question is 'can we do it in time?'.
www.EnergySolution.US
With Obama threatening to destroy the coal industry, just where does all of the electricity come from for those next-generation cars? If a car is plugged into an outlet, it becomes a coal or nuclear powered vehicle. Where is all of the lithium going to come from to make all of the batteries? Hint: we will be dependent on a small country in South America. Wind generators? The necessary rare earth ores for the permanent magnets come from China. The list of dependencies goes on.
The loss of oil affects not only the transportation industry, but agriculture (fertilizer), plastics, pharmaceuticals, construction, and most of our modern society.
We can thank the wonderful boyz at the Federal Reserve and the Treasury for destroying our currency and our way of life in the process.
Got gold?
Natty.
Organic batteries grown at MIT lab.
http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/2009/virus-battery-0402.html
I agree. I work at a company that does cutting edge research on fuel cells. One estimate that I heard is $6000 for enough power to run a car, with most of that cost being the platinum. If you look at the production of platinum you will see that there is no possible chance to even convert 10% of the cars to fuel cell power.
Batteries are even worse. What is the life span? 10 years? Then what are you going to do with the battery? They are highly toxic, and they don't recycle very well.
The only way that I can see things being done for a sustainable future is using compressed air to fuel your car, and using solar power to compress the air. The problems with this system are that 1) solar power is too expensive currently 2) the manufacturing of solar cells is harmful to the environment and 3) the need for consistent sunlight.
I am hoping to get 1) and 2) figured out using something similar to this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVwzJEhMmD8 If anyone has any links for TiO2 solar dyes, electrolytes, or similar, please post them.
There's a super advanced capacitor system that would fiill the bill. But it's being horded by the asshat military mongers. It's really amazing. I wish I could find the article on it.
Lithium batteries are not very toxic.
And they are highly recyclable.
We should invade a certain small south american country now, before they get too powerful.
Do they have WMDs?
Chile, get powerful?
Not toxic? As in "Do not dispose in landfill" not toxic? A link for you: http://www.monmouth.army.mil/cecom/safety/sys_service/b_cobalt.pdf
As to recyclability, I have never been involved in it, but there is most likely large amounts of waste generated when they recycle them. Otherwise I stand corrected.
Heh. You're favoirte icecream must be plutonium nut crunch if you think lithium is not very toxic. But the biggest problem with lithium isn't JUST that it's toxic it's a great explosive and incindiery device and 20 lbs of it will give you a whole new view take on tihngs. Like it will make some wrecks easier to work. You won't have to save the occupents merely scrape up the half molten chasis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeWq6rWzChw&feature=PlayList&p=2C047A93F6...
I believe you, there is tons of problems if we just switch and expect a solution tomorrow morning. To point out the good part of the oil shortage, i will use a quote :
So in short - the very NEED can change the society - people may stop kill/laught/taunt/buy any inventions that can change the business model of the corporations or god forbid lower the amount of oil sold daily. People will start to think and use what they have in the most effective way - no more 5 litre engine for 80kg person. People will start using mass tranzit system more - and thus optimising the transit system itself. I.e. if we change the life and business model from "keep the statue quo" to "hell lets try, might work" we might find a new ways of dealing with the problems.
agreed
If Obama is saying that, the only reasonable thing to do is to wait for coal powered cars to come out.
Anonymous said: "there are a lot of smart people here in the US"
Yes, but they're only here because they're well paid. If the dollar crashes they'll just go back to wherever they came from.
americans need to ask themselves to what extend it is also their fault they are letting their great nation falter and fall into the abyss powerless save for a few bloggers' effort. you can drag a cow to the river, but you cannot make it drink unless of course it wants to. The cow represents americans, who have become too lazy to think, drunk in consumerism and insouciant of the misdeeds around them. The corrupt politicians are a mirror of the american public - you deserve what you get if you are willing to go along without questioning, sometimes without even bothering to exercise your vote, and you deserve nothing good if you allow yourselves to be duped time and time again by oilmen, neo-cons, lawyers who never held a proper job before becoming president, actors, con-men and con women (Pelosi ha!) to be their leaders. The education, healthcare, judicial, political, social systems are all broken and no one has courage to want to fix it. You should be thankful someone in the world is still shipping goods to you for your electronic entries that is the US dollar.
Why does it have to be cows? How about horses? Besides, if I knew what "insouciant" meant, I'd probably be upset.
Don't say no one. Besides, are YOU doing anything about it? I am, and have been.
>Why did the Americans allow a handful of bankers to not only destroy their economy, but to drive the once-great country into a ruinous depression and an even more ruinous war?
Which time?
WWI?
WWII?
Iraq? or ???
That question was never answered after the Great Depression and into World War II which lagged the wars in China Japan , and Europe ( cuz we are slow learners ) . Banks caused that mess ( credit debt ) . And same thing now . How foolish we are and have been. Human nature and greed just gets worse by the day .
Well said. In 1990 they tried to push UK to the Euro
over Maggie's dead body, which allowed Soros to break
the Bank of England. Once a socialist, always a
socialist?
The epitaphs of the dollar's may be premature at best,
as the plan may take until 2018 to implement, if it all.
Meanwhile it is a strong warning shot across profligate
America's bow.
Will not be surprised to see IMF and World Bank style
austerity measures imposed on Americans and Brits.
UK just announced those on the dole face caps or
outright reductions. Medicare and Social Security next
on the chopping bloc disguised as 0Care?
Hurry up, Chinese, Japanese, Russians, and sheikhs! Save us Americans from The Fed, because weak-kneed, mushy-spined Congressman will not.
I hope Ron Paul's efforts succeed, but the only thing that The Cabal will quickly respond to is a gun pointed at their head, held by our overseas creditors.
Please, pull the trigger, overseas creditors!
Hear, Hear!
Patrick Henry: "Liberty, the greatest of all earthly blessing — give us that precious jewel, and you may take every thing else! But I am fearful I have lived long enough to become an old-fashioned fellow. Perhaps an invincible attachment to the dearest rights of man may, in these refined, enlightened days, be deemed old-fashioned; if so, I am contented to be so."
I for one welcome our new Sino-Russo-Japanese-Middle Eastern overlords.
Last chance to buy GOLD !
Last chance until the next commerical break when AM talk show hosts pump it.
It's never been worth zero.
Wouldn't it *REALLY* be a shame if the dollar came back after that. However, you're assuming that deflation isn't the ultimate objective of the Fed.....
I look forward to the complete and total economic collapse of the United States. It's the only thing that will stop the bad people from doing the bad things they are doing to us.
So sad. So true.
I am Chumbawamba.
Sounds like a cool thing to say, Michael, but have you ever been in a country where it has actually happened? It won't be a fun ride, and people, who are now on a rat-eat-rat basis, will pretty soon be on a for-real people-eat-people basis. (I take my very fat bankster with hot sauce, thank you!)
The ones that caused this won't be the ones that pay, unfortunately.
Hot sauce? You mean k-y.
Sgt_Doom,
[In my best Sara Palin] Gosh durn it, you know we have told you time and time again about those fatty banksters. They clog any and all arteries they come into contact with. Just look at what they are doing to the US, hmmm? Do you want that to happen to you buster? I thought not! Now put those banksters down. Maybe chase them around some to get leaner cuts of meat out of them, then add them back to your diet.
This link is not for the squeamish.
http://www.churchofeuthanasia.org/e-sermons/butcher.html
Tax deductible?
We must taste like cr@p if you need to use that (kitchen sink) marinade to hide the flavor.
Idi Amin said humans tasted fine, just "saltier than leopard"---but you can really never trust a dictator.
And will be supplanted by foreign bad people doing bad things to us, as well as neighbors, rioters, hungry zombified masses.
Locusts strip the land, and the remaining people are lucky if they die only of famine.
Actually, complete collapse of the U.S. economy is what they want. It will help convince the American people that a new world-wide currency and government is the way to go. The more economic distress, the more dependence there is for a big government to take care of everything for the people.
Interesting comment from the guy who rails against climate change legislation due to the negative economic impact it would have.
You sound like a sociopathic child. The hardship of an economic collapse is predominantly borne by the lower classes. They are mere pawns, yet you want them to suffer so you can be right?
This site is starting to worry me sometimes.
It is totally up to you guys after it happens to keep the US Constitution in tact and perhaps, start using it again. I don't remember even a single day in my lifetime when it was properly used.
Interesting development. If true, here are the implications based on the present fundamentals:
world oil demand: 80 million barrels a day. US demand: 19 million.
80-19= 61 million barrels a day for the world
61 X 365 = 22.2 BILLION barrels a year
22.2 billion barrels X $70 a barrel = $1.540 trillion
So currently, $1.54 trillion are used to purchase oil worldwide. Were oil to be bought with a basket of currencies, assuming the US$ makes up at least 50% of the basket, only $775 billion in US$ will be neccessary. These dollars will go on the open market.
Will they end up in US treasuries or stock equities?? I have no idea beyond this analysis.
World oil production is 71.7 mil/day (down from 74.7 mil/day in july 2008 I might add)
http://www.eia.doe.gov/ipm/supply.html
Plus this plan is for the next nine years, and the oil picture is going to be so much different by that time that none of these calculations will matter. We will have bigger problems on our hands than the piece of paper bankers use to jerk each other off with.
This is the sum of avarice shifting gears so no one should be surprised. Russia is petting Iran until it is no longer needed. Ivan is poised to play up Persia and dispense with the baggage in Tehran and not linger on the great game since are intent since the early 80's is no new news kids. The boiling pot with our childrens blood is Ivans pay back in there words over some fucking poppy's. If Iran expects the Arab League Muslims of Medina to save there ass there nuts, but I feel for the people only. I do expect Abrahams seed to think clearly. BRIC could care the fuck less and I do not blame them.
neither....my money is on hard assets
Unlike many here I like to think when you tick off the US you might get a little more then you bargained for. So how much does oil go to if you took out 70% of the US oil consumption. The US population already changed car buying habits pre and post-$4.00 a gallon fuel. Sending oil over $100 again would certainly put the nail in the coffin and all of us on a Pickens-like plan involving NatGas. That sort of supply glut would immediately kill the price of oil and the Middle East based oil economies (not necessarily a bad thing). ROW demand would have to grow ~25% in its thirst for oil just to maintain the status quo. I don't think the rest of the world will need that much at least not in the near term.
Americans have been known to get ripped up in a jingoistic fervor just as easily as any other nation's people and floating balloons or implementing things like this could definitely do that.
you seem to think it is a supply/demand issue - just dont take the iphones/false facebook realities from the population and the United Fuks will be fine.
My guess is natural resources as the world destabilizes.
This says 'within nine years'.
Given that Iran has already announced oil pricing in euros, what are the odds that this 'basket of currencies' would happen within the next few months?
And further...is it instead a new 'reserve currency' that will emerge within the next nine years?
PS: If the meetings are so secret, how come the Independent knows about them?
whats the saying when it comes to selling???
he who panics first, wins???
hehe yeah mate...I panicked in early 2007 straight into gold...
LOL. June 2008 is when I panicked into gold. You were paying alot more attention that I was.
the independent "knows" because either they have spun a new twist on this recurring theme and/or "Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong" have a motive to leak this information.
but, you can never believe 100% of everything you read in the press. as always, we will find out what happens over time.
already, there a few big denials from the saudis, UAE, kuwait, and the japanese:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=apt5We30uqlA
http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSL620079420091006
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091006-704394.html
It's not The Independent per se, it's Robert Fisk, who has long and deep connections to the middle-east. He's usually right on the money in what he reports, much to the displeasure of Washington.
Thank you Trader1 for bringing up the *tiny* issue this article's sources. And the significance of this particular article fades even more when looking at what was referenced. Of course these hidden "banking sources" have heard of this plan...every aspect of this plan, from a gulf currency to the ultimate goal of ceasing to price oil in dollars, has been outlined before. These initiatives are mammoth changes that will evolve (and have been evolving) over time.
I do appreciate minimaly sourced hype, so not the least quibble with ZH reproducing it here. But stories like these are entertainment, and are best used to keep whats coming fresh in our minds.
As long as the United States still has the biggest pe.......er...... military and is willing to use it, these other countries are simply testing the waters.
On the other hand, now that the United States has essentially become the biggest beggar on the block, now just might be the time to strike with regard to dislodging the USD from it's throne.
May you live in interesting times. Old Chinese proverb
Chinese CURSE actually.
We hear this a lot: It's all about the US military. But look at the strains already put on the US military fighting two relatively low intensity conflicts. Do you really think this country has the stomach for a draft and wartime economy a la the WWII model? If we get there (i.e. if the propaganda machine kicks into high gear and enough people are stupid enough to buy into it), all premises shift anyway. I think the middle east and Asia scent blood in the weakness they see in our military adventures of the past 8 years. That's not going to stop them; it may actually be encouraging them.
But isn't constant fighting a good way to keep a military in good working order? The US military has to be the most experienced army on earth by far. They have been involved in more REAL wars than any other country during the past 50+ years. You argue they havent been successful, but were the wars they have entered into actually winnable in the first place? Implementing democracy in Afghanistan? That was never going to work out anyhow. As for Iraq, their occupation was hamstrung by poor decisions early on. Neither can be seen as military defeats.
double
Our military won't save us, if this is true. Do you realize how much oil our military needs to fight a war?
If anything can save us, it will be our food, as others have mentioned.
Our food production and distribution is entirely dependent on the fossil fuels oil (distribution) and natural gas (fertilizer). If either is missing, nothing will save us.
not if everyone starts learning how to grow their own.
You have no idea the amount of food and the scale required to feed a nation. "Grow your own" works if you're talking about weed and dirt ball hippies. But in the real world, you can't turn your Victory Garden into a wheat field for bread. So back to the original point -- it's still oil dependent.
Very true. Our food and our armed citizens. Even in WWII Japan had a saying for the US that described how we basically are an uninvadable country.
'behind every blade of grass is a rifle'
Itll be good that we can no longer start wars. And we dont NEED our massive military to protect us.
Course, if Russia decides to get serious and heavily farm some of that black soil land they have, we may be of very little importance to anyone.
You mean the vast swath of polluted mess left over from the Soviet collective farming gone wrong?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea
Try clicking on the links to Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan. You will probably be surprised to learn that these are not in Russia.
They were part of the Soviet regime. That was the point. Soviet is the operative part of that sentence.
Regimes come and go.
http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/agr_ara_and_per_cro_percap-arable-perm...
World to Ben: "UP YOURS BAYBEE!!"
Another word to Ben - In order to show my deepest appreciation to you for destroying our country, I would like to offer up two words in gratitude - Fuck YOU!
So, the US is among (or is), the world's largest consumer of oil.
Therefore, the way that the oil producers plan to protect themselves from the world's largest consumer of oil's devaluationist monetary policy is to switch to currencies which will hold value against the continuing decline of the US dollar, which will put their product's price out of reach of said consumer's purchasing ability.
The price of oil, and therefore gas, will climb precipitously in the US, and sales of SUVs will go back into the shitter, while smaller electric cars domestically produced by the auto companies owned in large part by the US taxpayer are purchased in droves.
Good, bad, someone either hasn't thought this through, or doesn't mind this endgame.
US to world...whoops, suddenly we have found ourselves too poor to ship food anywhere....
Food, not uber-intelligent ivy league educations, will keep us a superpower....of course those folks will take credit for it...
Keep the food and send them the ivy leaguers. They will blow them up too.
And they taste like chicken.
I am Chumbawamba.
Only if you cook 'em right!
Wow you post a lot! I'm glad to read all these quality posts from Chumbawamba.
Chumbawumba is my hero
i always get a kick out chumbawumba posts... that one cracked me up
And OBTW, France, uh, we'll be pulling our military bases from your country, and yours and yours and yours and yours and yours - hey, I think we just paid off the deficit.
Uh. Those bases are there for your benefit, not ours.
Glad to see you go, buddy.
seems to be that way until the germans show up.
$ is still going to lift and screw everyone. Rappers and supermodels will tell you DON'T FUCK WITH THE $
NOT SURE WHY I FOUND THIS SO FUNNY !!
This entire economy is based on illusory presumptions; A does not always equal A
The sole reason our economy grew in the first place was from debt and debt alone. There was no increase in production of exportable goods. We grew, but we grew from the seeds of debt. The only way in which we can grow in the current political envrioment is from more debt.
Why is this?
As most people know California is a "trend setter" Well let me tell you something about California citizens. They want everything without paying for it. They want lower taxes with increased spending without producing anyting. How did California recently pass their budget? They didn't (they kicked the can) This appears to be what our government is trying to do.
But why?
The only way to get elected is to get votes. Hmmmm..... How do you get votes in America? You promise things you can't deliver and through fraud and accounting schemes you get those things. You see the American dream has been skewed. It used to be the land of oppourtunity. This means if you work hard you benefit. It is now the land of "give me a free house and free healthcare"....oh "and I I don't wanna work for any of it". If you can get me those things I'll vote for you.
Well....
Everyone got free houses. Where did that get us?
Everyone wants free healthcare. Where do you think that will get us?
You see when the "government" says we will GIVE this to you it is a misnomer. You are the government and a rule in life is "you get what you pay for" You will always pay (either through inflation, or taxes, or both)
There is no such thing as a free lunch and America ate their lunch on borrowed money. Now America is hungry and has no money for dinner....and we are in debt having outsourced all our jobs.
Prosperity without work is a dream of the ages.
What does the U.S produce that the world buys?
Does anyone think the world continue working like slaves so we can buy iphones? This world is 6.5 billion...we are 300 million.
Our card has been played and it was a 2 of clubs. Bernanke fucked us. Our government fucked us. It is our fault. A country prospers as a country, and likewise, a country fails as a country.
America = Epic Fail
Asia = Epic Win
Fuck that. We're taking it out of the banker's asses.
Fail as a country, indeed. Fuck you!
I am Chumbawamba.
Fuck me! No....Fuck you!
Uh, no, Chumbawumba's right - Fuck You
Enough , FUCK EVERYBODY
Fuck the ANON above you.
"Everyone got free houses. Where did that get us?
Everyone wants free healthcare. Where do you think that will get us?"
Sorry, Pizza boy, but you don't make any sense. The trouble in America (and elsewhere) is all those debt-financed billionaires who walked away with their ill-gotten gain and left the rest of us (the bottom 90%) footing their bill! What is this crapola about some free lunch?? If you don't comprehend securitization, derivatives, structured finance, etc., just put a lid on it, but don't give us this MSM propaganda that a few foreclosures brought down the American, and global, economy.
And healthcare is prohibitively high due to the insurance industry's illegitimate and amoral exeption from anti-trust laws (that means they are a monopoly) and their excessive and amoral usage of securitized healthcare receivables, insurance-linked securities, reinsurance plus notes ploys, etc., ad nauseum...
A monopoly exists when one individual or enterprise controls an industry to the extent that competition is eliminated or to the extent that control is exerted over other enterprises or individuals in an industry as to what the terms of conducting business are. As the health insurance industry is concerned, there is not one business that controls the industry. The industry itself is controlled by the government through regulation. The healthcare securities that you described, to the extent that they conrtol the industry, if at all, are government controlled. The health insurance industry surely is not a monopoly in the classic sense. Competition in the industry is stifled by the intervention of governmental regulatory intrusion. The truth of the matter is that the government will not allow free market competition in the healthcare industry because they relish and will not relinquish the control that they exert.
As for "all those debt-financed billionaires who walked away with their ill-gotten gain and left the rest of us (the bottom 90%) footing their bill!" you must know something about who the recipients of government bailout money are that the rest of the public doesn't. Even congress can't get a straight answer from the fed as to who were the beneficiaries of all this largess. Do you have a private line to Bernanke?
Clarification on the term "monopoly" .... the classical, proper definition that was understood by all political economists until the corruption of the vocabulary, was as follows:
An exclusive reservation of a market, or part of a market, to one or more sellers by or with the sanction of the government. In the pre-industrial era, it almost invariably took the form of an exclusive franchise (for example, mail delivery) by the sovereign (King, Queen, etc.)
There are no "private" monopolies. The fact that a firm may be the sole producer of a product is not the determinant. If the firm enjoys this position by virtue of its lower costs of production and resultant lower selling prices, which potential competitors are unable to match, as was the case with Alcoa (back in the day), then that cannot be considered a monopoly. However, if a firm (or a cartel, or a group of occupational license holders, etc.) occupies this position by virtue of the government's threat of force against the 'unlicensed', that most certainly IS a monopoly.
Regulation is a method of cartelization, sold to the public as 'consumer protection'. Consumers are protected by precisely the opposite - that is, the sellers they have to choose from are free to compete, and not hamstrung, regulated, limited in number by the authorities.
Sgtdoom-
I succomb to your infinite wisdom. I am an ignoramous.
Thank you so very much for enlightening me.
I suppose I should just deliver a pizza ;)
Great post..... However I want to put up a few points.
1. Everyone got free houses.
- No, they didn't get free houses. Those that bought homes they could not afford are now losing those same homes. Even if they are still living there without paying... that's temporary. They're going to be homeless and jobless. No worries.
2. Everyone wants free healthcare. Sure... I can't argue with that... of course we want free healthcare, but you want to know what I will settle for? A trip to the doctors that doesn't cost $250. How about a bottle of Ibuprofen (generic of course) for $5 that I would get charged at the Quickie Mart down the street instead of the $200 that they overbill. How about an ambulance ride that costs less than $3,000? How about a medical insurer who doesn't charge me $400/month when I have visited the doctor once in 4 years? How about a pharmacy company that doesn't repatent (and don't even get me into what I think about patents) the same exact drug four times over?
See, while I feel bad for the people who lost their jobs and homes in the first crash.... I've not got one single f'n ounce of sympathy for the idiots who are riding this wave up like there is no tomorrow. The reason this crash came was because of outsourcing, excessive CEO pay for substandard intelligence and contribution, minimum worker rights, hell MINIMALIZED PAY for workers while a CEO gets a 10% increase with a 20% increase in golf time most workers get a 2% increase in pay with an extra 10% of responsibility.
The rich got rich by keeping for themselves what they should have shared with everyone. We got lower taxes because we were supposed to bring America up, not just the 5% who already had money. Peter will pay the piper.
If you're one of the many who are complaining about higher taxes but backed the Government stopping the market crash..... stop.
The higher taxes are coming BECAUSE the Government stopped the market crash (at least the first one).
---------
One last sidebar rant:
Who gets hurt from deflation? The poor without a job getting $200 week in benefits? Or is it the multimillionaire who has $500k in equities?
Point for point.
1. Homes are homes. They are not stock. They are not gold. THEY ARE A PLACE TO RAISE A FAMILY. That is their purpose. When people say "I lost so much money in my house" That means they were speculating.
2. You get what you PAY for. If you want I'll charge you $5 for a trip on my huffy to the hospital. If you want paramedics who went to school and have the best medicine which combined can save your life....you have to pay. In order to pay for that you should be expected to work hard for that benefit. I'm willing to work (in order to pay) for the extra protection. The harder I study, the more I work, the better job I get, the more I get...get it?
"The rich got rich by keeping for themselves what they should have shared with everyone"
If I work hard and get rich why should I HAVE TO give to someone who didn't. I will have money in which I CAN DONATE to a hospital to help others. I should have the CHOICE to give money to who I WANT to...IT SHOULD NOT BE DECIDED FOR ME...THAT TAKES AWAY MY FREEDOM TO GIVE. IT GIVES THE GOVERNMENT THE RIGHT TO TAKE AS THEY SEE FIT.
Point for point -
1. "That means they were speculating" - Must be nice to buy a home for $350k, pay $700 in a mortgage and then rent it for $1,400. Sorry, they were speculating and they were effectively sticking it to some renter, hey that's capitalism. I'm sure that extra $700 per month went all to charity anyways... right? Or perhaps it went to their 16 year old daughter's brand new BMW since she crashed the last one... no worries, daddy's going to sell that soon.
2. "You get what you PAY for." - So, you're telling me that generic ibuprofen is worth $200? Or are you telling me that the doctor that I'm seeing at the free clinic is actually a Harvard med school graduate? Or....... what if it's the only hospital in 200 miles and they decide to up the price to $300/bottle of Ibuprofen? Is that capitalism or robbery?
"If I work hard and get rich why should I HAVE TO give to someone who didn't"
Okay, first of all, I'm not talking about the middle rich, I'm talking about the fucker with $50 million in the bank who charges the poor man 50 cents for the item that cost him 5 cents in materials and 5 cents in labor. He's not getting rich from his hard work, he's getting rich from an outdated idea, price gouging and labour abuse... not ingenuity and hard work. Yes, we the middle class get shafted (but not nearly as much as the $500k+/yr peeps), but really, why can't that guy pay the worker 10 cents and charge the poor man who buys 35 cents? All have more money (except the guy with 5 casinos, 4 cars, a trophy wife with a diamond ring on her hand worth $5mil, a mistress and a hooker he calls on every 3rd sunday)and more can be invested and that leads to the greater good.
The time to fight the system was beforehand, the rape that's taking place now was sown by the seeds of inequity forced upon the poor, I'm just glad it's the middlemen who barely did anything worthwhile who are going to lose the majority of the jobs in the coming secondary wave. Shoulda gone to school fuckers, but don't worry... I hear the bell ringing.
PHAESED => CANNOT BE SERIOUS
No, Phaesed is entirely serious... sorry buddy, I trade the markets and I do research on economic history and theory while extracting my living from the greed of other market participants. My end goal? Teach math to underprivileged inner city youth while not worrying about how I'm going to afford $1200 rent and $1800 on simple consumer staples on a $35k/yr salary and perhaps take a part in the evolution of economic theory. Sorry, not everyone is out to be the next billionaire, some of us just want to enjoy life, not exploit it and everything around it.
Hey I'm with you on this. Your goal is noble. (Successfully) teaching math to kids should yield more than a banksters salary IMO. In fact, most jobs don't manufacture anything and don't educate anyone anymore, yet they are often further up on the payscale than those who do. This can and will not end well, even for those yelling 'supply and demand'. Next stop idiocracy ;)
Okay, last comment before resting for the night and this was written in 1911 :)
"If one were to ask how the price of wheat is determined, the immediate answer will probably be: By supply and demand. This answer, though correct so far as it goes, is superficial. It is well to be on one's guard against glib phrases which are so often substituted for real analyses. "Supply and Demand" is such a phrase. A long time ago when economics consisted rather of glib phrases than of real analyses, a critic of the study said, "If you want to make a first-class economist, catch a parrot and teach him to say 'supply and demand' in response to every question you ask him. What determines wages. Supply and demand. What determines the distribution of wealth? Supply and demand" In every instance the answer is right, but it explains nothing. We must discover the forces which determine supply and demand. In so doing, we shall learn that to determine the price even of one simple commodity, like wheat, involves practically all the principles of economic science"
~ Irving Fisher, The Elementary Principles of Economics (1911)
Cheers
WTF. I can't dignify this with a response.
...I guess I'm responding.
f it
Can't dignify it with a response because the idea that the greed of the slave master and the exploitation of the worker is clearly laid out or you just have simple cognitive dissonance between the concept of the exploitation of the disenfranchised poor of society versus your concern over your pocketbook? Bring a logical response, I'll gladly debate it. However, if you bring your pocketbook and your greed to the argument, please know I will thoroughly trounce it as I've apparently done since you're either speechless and unable to bring a valid counterpoint or you just simply have no idea how to deny the simple fact.
Please know, this isn't a personal attack, it's an attempt to demonstrate the greed inherent in our corporate civilization and why ultimately higher taxes will result in this country. Do I agree with higher taxes? No. Do I agree that the corporations are greedy? Yep. Is some greed good? Of course! Is greed that involves stealing from your brother bad? Yes.
Don't worry, inflation is coming to an end soon and we will have the deflation which will rob the upper middle class of their own wealth. Thankfully, it's mainly the greedy ones.
"So, you're telling me that generic ibuprofen is worth $200?"
I stopped there.
I just got some yesterday for $6.99 at C.V.S
I couldn't take the rest of your post seriously after reading that.
I honestly have other things to worry about...like multi-million dollar accounts. I really can't dignify this any further.
Have a nice night.
Here, lemme spell out the fine print that came 5 words after $200
"A trip to the doctors that doesn't cost $250. How about a bottle of Ibuprofen (generic of course) for $5 that I would get charged at the Quickie Mart down the street"
I guess the fact you can't finish reading a contrary argument sums up your ability to think critically. I hope you're fully invested buddy.
It is fuckwits like you who drove this country into the arms of idiots like Bush and Obama. Congrats...fool.
Learn about freedom. Understand that not a single person on this planet OWES you a fucking thing. Doesn't make them bad, it makes them free. I DON'T owe you your next fucking breath. If you are in a home and it is on fire I would likely go in and save your stupid ass but I would do it because I WANT to not because it is fair.
I don't expect anything from anyone except on their terms. Why do you demand what you don't own on your terms?
You guys and your healthcare... the rest of the world is watching this and wondering what is going through your heads.
The first step in making changes to your healthcare system is admitting there is a problem. I would have thought that was self evident based on anecdotes of $200 ibuprofin, standard caesarians costing $108k, 20 minute emergency room consultations costing $1700, $2000 ambulance rides etc.
All the other dveloped countries think prices like that are batshit. It sounds like you are in the group of people who think that the US healthcare system is working just fine. Why is it that every other developed country can come up with a system that works except the US?
Depends on your idea of "working just fine", I suppose. Otherwise I guess you can explain to me why my company pays for the private healthcare policies for our UK employees and their "working just fine" healthcare system. Eh?
I work in biotech. New drugs are extremely expensive both from a money and time metric. Development can carry on long after patent issue such that by the time a new drug is put on the market, little time on patent remains. Thus the strategy of trying to extend the time protected in order to recoup development costs and *gasp* attempt to glean some profit out of the R&D efforts. Mind you I am not so keen on marketing budgets in the US being on par with R&D budgets, but that is another discussion...
So what you're saying is that the $5million dollar bonuses paid out to execs rather than researchers is an attempt to recover profits from the hard work of those CEO's? Damn, shame I wasn't born with a silver spoon up my ass, then I could easily be greedy and profit from anothers work.
Nice attempt at justification though, even if it points out the fundamental flaw of patent law. Maybe I should start publishing some of my research as "original" rather than giving credit to the individuals who discovered it 100 years ago. I suppose the point of insurance companies denying claims to the poor who can't afford lawyers is to "recoup some profits" for their humanitarian service.
what exactly do we need new drugs for anyway?
to cure the symptoms associated with the past drugs that weren't tested properly on humans before going to market?
please tell us which illnesses justify the need for a new drug that isn't on the market yet.
Know any one who takes Enbrel for arthritis? How about if a loved one with cancer could get a drug that instead of simply killing fast growing cells (hair, gut, etc.) specifically killed the disease by targeting unique proteins expressed on the surface of those cancer cells? Most folks don't realize how expesive it is to produce these kinds of drugs (hint: think 10 years of research, 100's of millions of dollars, and an attrocious failure rate of projects before being approved). And yes, if a CEO presides over a company and is responsible for its success, s/he should be compensated accordingly. Bonuses/golden parachutes paid out to scum like the former management team of ICOS are another thing altogether.
Why not register instead of posting drivel anonymously?
Strap-on your seatbelts... it's going to be one rough ride down Black Swan Boulevard...
Update... nine years from now...
It's ok to go strapless again.
Hehe. I like you 0head, u r funny, u make me laugh, I'm glad we r friends.
2017 for me
anon
When OPEC walks away we are screwed. Part of me is glad other countries are going to force Ben's hand and stop the destruction of the US dollar (lord knows the American voter has no say).
they are going to wish they waited a few years to put the nail in the coffin....wait until obama destroys our military... this is just going to wake folks up....
where does China go first, Tiawan or Australia? My money is on Australia...its got resources...
Taiwan first.
Sudetenland, Silesia, Oesterreich...see?
http://www.weather.com/maps/news/septnonactive/asiasatellite_large_anima...
let china be china.
mother earth will take care of any inequities in due time.
OK, OPEC sides with the BRIC goobers. Then what, China starts selling to the Saudis those God-awful inflatable Santa Clauses riding motorcycles that we've been putting in our front yards?
I don't care anymore. I'm sick of living in fear of the corruption we are experiencing.
I feel EXACTLY the same way!
@ Pizza Delivery Man
Maybe it is time to return to the days when the only people who could cast votes were people who owned property.
Maybe we can return to the day where we produced something (that we could export to the world)
Maybe we can return to the day of knowing who lent to you, and who you are lending to.
Maybe we can return to responsibility [of somekind] in our government and financial system.
How about regulators doing their job and regulating something?
How bout' "No work...No house" How bout' that
Or is every American entitled to a Ferrari and mansion just because they are American?
Hell! Lets send every American student to Harvard. They deserve it. Everyone deserves the best!
Don't worry that little insignficant mind of yours, Pizza boy, there are a boatload of fat and well-fed management types around at all those private equity, pumping-and-dumping firms that will feed us when food and commodities become just too darn expensive.
Suck my balls.
If you want an intelligent conversation...bring it.
Otherwise refer to above
BTW...I'll pump you all night long. Cry baby.
damn Pizza Man, give it a rest. My display is only 600 pixels tall and you are causing me a lot of unwelcome scrolling.
You keep pouncing on this whole "everybody want a free house" bullshit so now I have to respond. While some were in fact speculators, you need to remember that a lot of those speculators are not the people losing their homes. These were people investing and they got upside down and walked away. Those people made business decisions. their walking away was a calculated move. For them I have no sympathy and no mercy. However, the people who lost their HOMES. the place they tried to buy to LIVE AND RAISE A FAMILY, for the great part, were not speculators. Nor were they financially savvy people. These are not the people who go into a bank and say "Give me the money to buy this property". These are the people that go to the bank and ASK "Can I afford to buy this home". And in 99 out of 100 cases the banks told them "yes you can" knowing full well that they could not afford it. But it didn't matter to the banks because this note was only going to be on their books for about 48 hours before they packaged it off and sold it. The bank got their money. And then the people realized that they could not in fact afford it so they lost their home. And then who got their home? The fucking bank WHICH HAS ALREADY BEEN PAID FOR THE HOME WHEN THEY SOLD THE BASKET OF MBS. So perhaps in the interest of at least pretending that you have even one humane bone in your body, try not to cast so much blame on the poor motherfucker that has to explain to his 5 year old daughter why they have to sleep in their 79 Impala and take hobo baths in the public restroom. If you have no brain...at least have a heart. Otherwise...what good are you?
I really do feel bad for people who lost their homes, specifically those who didn't understand the economic situation. The calculation seems a lot easier than most people make it out to be, though. If the cost to rent is less than the cost to own, then you rent! Anyone who thought it was a good idea to buy a home at 3x the cost of renting was a speculator. The only reason someone would do that is if they expected capital appreciation.
Yes, I am a renter, and have been for the last 7 years even though I could have afforded (and still can afford) to buy. People who were actually concerned about affordability would be renting. It's that simple.
Well guess what?!
These are hard times. I feel for those suffering...I do. Do you see my moniker and avatar? Guess what? I had nothing at one point. I delivered pizzas, I washed cars and I did what I had to do to make it. I worked long hours washing dishes and scrubbing mats. I WORKED MY ASS OFF...but....I always spent within my means. I never had a credit card. There was a point where the skin on my fingers was coming off. I never had a hand out.
I ended up making something out of nothing....from hard work. I never gave up. I made friends who helped me through it, and I helped them. And guess what...I made it...I FUCKING MADE IT (do you have any idea how good it feels to say that?) That is America. That is what we are all about.
This idea of being entitled just because you are an "American" is bullshit.
Being an American is having nothing but having the OPPOURTUNITY to MAKE SOMETHING OF YOURSELF....that is being an American. That is the American dream.
Don't tell me I HAVE to sacrifice for those who have nothing. I came from nothing. I don't want to see that taken from anyone who is willing to work for it.
while i feel like i too have 'made it', i fear i'm like the guy on the Titanic who could proudly say "well, I bailed out MY part of the ship!"
cheers
That's exactly right home delivery man, that's what America instilled in people. But sadly that's long ago. Think about it, GS makes 1Billion on the failure of CIT.
Fucking terrific!!
79 Impala?
Doubtful, they probably traded that one for a cash for clunker which will be on the repo mans hook in 3..2..1..
Are you nuts? That would be subprime * 1000 - they would be selling homes to the homeless for an empty bottle of Mad Dog 20/20. Plan B - if you don't pay federal taxes, you can't vote in federal elections.
have you talked to many people in the 18-25 year old bracket. Maybe we can start there.
Alternatively how about if you actually pay taxes you get to vote?
Wait, no - that would purge nearly 40% of the entitlement class that gets to vote how to spend every one else's money from the voting rolls.
hopefully it would eliminate the rich from voting - not many of them pay taxes.
Oh, "within 9 years"? Really ripping off the old bandaid, huh?
Its less painfull if you do it quickly...
lol +10
You know, I like your blog but I don't visit as often because some of your posts simply expose how little you really understand about many of the topics you write about. Almost the entirety of America's debt is self-funded. There is no way to inflate our way out of foreign holdings as implied here. Additionally, I find this story to be highly dubious and par for the course for much of the UK's paparazzi press. To believe there are "secret" meetings with American allies to destabilize the American economy is just about the dumbest f**king thing I have read anywhere. The entire world relies on the U.S. economy for its subsistence. This is a terrible post.
To believe there are "secret" meetings with American allies to destabilize the American economy is just about the dumbest f**king thing I have read anywhere.
yep, groups don't have secret meetings, do they. russia is one hell of an ally. probably the same can be said for china.
back in 08 (bear, lehman, ahem) and early 09 some said there were secret meetings going on with treasury, Fed, politicians, the TBTF club. can you believe that? secret meetings? I suppose some bankers even said stuff like "you're either in the club or not"? do you know that some people suggested that the treasury and fed tried to force BAC to take on ML and they would take care of it later? (actually, I said that on several occasions, blind squirrel theorem applies for me, but there were others).
your naivete as to what different groups do amongst each other is evident.
btw, there probably was a meeting(s) on this and it is more likely than not that it's just a pressure point to tell bernanke to get off his ass and prop the dollar.
Secret meetings??...Like Bilderberg? I bet they just sit around and talk about their golf handicaps and the latest pieces of art they purchased...right?