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Is The Chairman's Plan To Kill The Dollar About To Be Derailed?
The Independent has released information that Arab States, along with China, Russia, Japan and France are about to end the dollar's hegemony. While snippets like this have been previously discussed, usually accompanied by lots of posturing, nothing firm had ever materialized. If the latest overture turns out to be real, that would be a dramatic hit to Ben Bernanke's attempt to inflate trillions of debt on the back of a rapidly devaluing reserve currency. Ironically, the end of the dollar's pain may now become Bernanke's new sad reality as with the loss of its reserve status, perpetual dollar devaluation becomes a moot point. Oh, and a side effect, first oil, and soon all other commodities, will soon stop being priced in USDs.
From The Independent:
In the most profound financial change in recent Middle East history, Gulf Arabs are planning – along with China, Russia, Japan and France – to end dollar dealings for oil, moving instead to a basket of currencies including the Japanese yen and Chinese yuan, the euro, gold and a new, unified currency planned for nations in the Gulf Co-operation Council, including Saudi Arabia, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait and Qatar.
Secret meetings have already been held by finance ministers and central bank governors in Russia, China, Japan and Brazil to work on the scheme, which will mean that oil will no longer be priced in dollars.
The plans, confirmed to The Independent by both Gulf Arab and Chinese banking sources in Hong Kong, may help to explain the sudden rise in gold prices, but it also augurs an extraordinary transition from dollar markets within nine years.
h/t Deadhead
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I think you should ask Elliot Spitzer, David Letterman, and Mark Sanford about secret meetings. Yup, they do happen.
Get off his ass to prop the dollar. I think so. Would the market just crash already for gods sake. How about a little coin in my pocket?
thank you deadhead!
+100
Give that kid a hit of something good. :-)
All of this is saber rattling that they can and will do if need be. When they fuck our dollars, they fuck their dollars. They would have to decide that they are at the inflection point where they are already losing more now than they would lose if they go ahead and screw the dollar.
Ice, Iceland, babee... Doom, da, da Doom, Doom
Are you kidding me EQ... the world no longer wants to rely on the U.S. economy for its subsistence... we have abused the privilege granted to us and thrown the world into a tailspin due to our own greed and disregard for the welfare of others... do you even remember the subprime crisis, MBS, derivative unwinds, etc...
And you clearly you have never worked in upper management in a corporation where 'secret meetings' go on all the time... and BTW here are 'secret meetings' within and in between governments all around the world... and the higher up the food chain the more secret and significant they become.
American has taken so much of the riches from the rest of the world for itself that I am sure that there are many other countries that will silently smile as we slowly descend into oblivion due to our own greed.
NOT so fast Minnesota (hope the twins win) Nice. Us upper management types are not always - and for me never looking to demise the underlings.
Vikings/Packers game tonight at home... Favre is playing against his old team... hope he kicks their a&% :-)
And yes... you are right that upper management is not looking to 'demise the underlings'... however many decisions are made for the good of the company and the 'whole', which may be counterproductive to the interests of certain employee groups.
And it seems clear that the same 'behind the scenes' meetings go on at both the intra and inter-goverment levels.
Point well taken. Was a huge Tarkenton fan back in the day. This Farve - looks like he means business.
So was I. He made me lots of money on the big games.
I take it you bet against him in the Super Bowl
If only Ken Lewis would take lessons about getting revenge on your ouster, regardless of how much you were asking for it.
Go Tigers,
As pragmatic as upper management is they eat there own internally as they always have. We are in a balance sheet recession and hording cash is the norm for some time in Corporate. If people mention capacity in this new predicated business cycle they never seen it coming anyway so walk away its built in Kids. Currently many synergy's are being enabled on many level's.
BTW American's in percentages will be humbled and the Company will survive predation of the State as Capital as always goes where it best treated. Why would I know? Like many we try to work with consrutuctive people and survive idiots at all levels.
I don't my pw on this computer but this is EQ. You are all useless monkeys who understand nothing about global finance or about what drives markets. Yet, you all congregate on here to pile on even more useless information about topics you truly know nothing about. And I clearly have not worked in upper management. But I have run a $250 million company and that is likely more than your dumb ass can claim. Watch the world unfold in exactly the opposite manner all of you clowns expect. You find solace in ZH because they feed your conspiratorial and idiotic opinions. ZH is a very nice blog and I am glad they don't restrict comments, but the clowns on here are endless.
You're back... and EQ here's the deal... first of all nobody on here is a useless monkey (well maybe one or two)... second, you offer nothing that shows that you sufficiently grasp the concepts yourself and choose to utilize 3rd grade behaviors of calling other people names when you don't agree with them... and lastly kudos to you for running a $250 million company and when you finally own a multi-million dollar company and have your neck on the line then we will have something to talk about.
I think that if you put your opinions on the topics out there... people will respond... but it may not always be what you want to hear or in the way you want to hear it... some people can be a little more abrasive and direct... others more thoughtful in their remarks... but that is OK... you end up learning alot anyway... just sayin' :-)
So you have a problem with us presenting news (we were among the first), that today ended up being the i) primary talking point, ii) and moved both gold and equity markets to either record or abusrdly high levels (depending on your point of view)? do i understand your grievance correctly?
And so it begins.
Nine years my ass. Try 19 days.
I am Chumbawamba.
Did anyone notice the article in question:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-demise-of-the-dollar...
...was penned by Robert Fisk? Now, I generally like the guy, as he's one of the few journalists that actually gets the Middle East "conflict" mostly right. But...I don't know. This could just be someone blowing smoke up his ass. Possibly as a diversion for something else going on.
Interesting.
I am Chumbawamba.
Fisk is a horrible hack (Getting Fisked is a term borne from his often incompetent/biased reporting and subsequent line-by-line rebuttals of same) but even a broken clock is correct twice a day.
This is one of his two times.
+1
Naw, that's just what you right-wing nutters think because he takes a pro-Arab view of things ;)
I am Chumbawamba (but you knew that).
I would not bet on that!
I don't doubt the dollar is doomed, but I struggle with the idea that all of these nations will be agree on how to move forward. Methinks it will be a rocky transition indeed.
Don't know how true it is, but fascinating if accurate.
This article is just an MSM taking notice of something that has been discussed in the blogging 'fringe' for lo these past several months. Ever since China first raised the idea at - when was it? - Davos last February? Can't remember off the top of my head but I think it was about then.
China and Russia at Davos presented the idea of SDRs and, alternatively, a 'basket of currencies' which would include gold. Iran has LONG attempted to remove oil from USD pricing as we all know - that's not news, either.
The only thing newsworthy to me in this is that a) now the Middle East is taking a more concerted approach, which frankly sanity demands; and b) the MSM has noticed.
It's not so much the source I credit, as that this seems the only logical way forward for global currencies (divest from USD, into multi-polar currency and some asset backing) in countries hoping to move into a real economic recovery. A change of guard is inevitable, altho it's still hazy into what.
As to who notices along the way (tabloid or 'legitimate' MSM, does it matter?), and when they do...well, sooner is better to prepare for an inevitable move. (Which *may* take nine years but that is unlikely at the rate fiat currencies are falling.)
+10 a necessary bit of perspective
tyler, its the goldilocks economy.....no, not that goldilocks...:) no thanks to krudblow.....
so maybe karl denniger can get off of jim willie's nuts about all of this stuff now....
also it appears that zerohedge is now the place where others come to get their stories from. its like willie said. denniger never has had a original idea in his life....
Hey, not to drop to your level with an ad hominem, but Denninger at least got himself an audience for the vitriol, which given your lack of ability to create an identifiable persona on the Innertubes, does not speak positively of your criticism.
Ignoring the things you post a week too late???
Maybe you should have posted the entire link for your viewers!!!
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1275511738&play=1
well fuck me to tears...i came over here to post a link to this article from gata only to find that it is its own topic here....oh well, can never complain about powerful news spreading fast...
this is a scorcher of an article and spells the end of the dollar as a reserve currency.....even if it recovered like lazarus it's too late...
the greedy pigs of the rockefeller / rothschild axis of evil may have overplayed their evil hands except the usa still has the trump card of its 2000 military bases....
we are rotting inside a corpse's shell...
next international bankers' conference to be held at the mountain of megiddo...
http://www.gata.org/node/7860
anon,
I've been hearing noise on the line about a possible military intervention here at home. The top brass walk into the oval office and tell Barack, push over, will take it from here.. So much for the 2000 bases around the world. The boys are coming home. Wouldn't that be the nuts.
Arab states, China, Russia, Japan and France will only prove that a circle jerk is always better than doing it alone. Japan is lost, has been for 12 years. France is France. Russia is one big bumbling fool. China is communist to the core. China has been lying for so long they no longer know what the truth is.
If not the US dollar, then what? Like Derek and the Dominoes sang, " no one loves you when your down and out." "When you finally get back on your feet again, everyone wants to be your long lost friend."
No one ever thought Germany and Italy could hang when they managed for awhile during WWII.
But I take exception with your remarks about Russia -- Putin appears to truly be working on behalf of his people and killing those "free marketeers" over there (sounds like a good start???), while over here almost all our pols are simply lackeys for the crooked banksters from hell.
"How's that Hope and Change working out for you?"
bumper sticker.
http://www.cafepress.com/rwas.404236216
This reminds one of a mightily weighty situation during which a seven-year-old boy threatens to run away from home.
Remember that Saddam had a bunker full of 3x3x3
aluminum boxes packed with USD $100 bills. He talked
a good game about pricing oil in Euros and making a gold
dinar but in his redoubt of redoubts what did he hoard?
None of these guys that are "talking" to each other
trust each other worth a damn. No there is no way
out of this for them. Whats in your redoubt?
When the US is occupied by Red China, I plan on keeping a stash of renminbi around...
China doesn't run around occupying countries. It'll screw you up without ever leaving home. LOL
Horsepower calculations will be very easy in the future. One, two, three, four....
Beans, bullets and bullion.
oh wait, so the arab conspiracy to derail the dollar is of more concern than the already massive drop in it's value since..oh...around 1913?
http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/SeanMaloneRiseFallDollarLarge.jpg
give.me.a.fucking.break
I could have done without Drudge Report picking this up. Their blood-thirty horde of neocon retards can only make this situation worse. BLAME YOUR OWN GOVERNMENT, NOT THE ARABS!
my sentiments exactly anon.
and this is why you need to SELL commodities besides fert stocks ASAP
without the outrageous weak dollar supporting prices, they will drop to better supply/demand levels.
and please, get out of copper as well
The sensational scoop of the Independent's headline has been in quite plain discussion for the last several weeks/months. Nevertheless, developments should be interesting - but could this not be a bargaining chip instead of an actual implemented plan (for the moment). Also, bear in mind the last line of the article: "Iran announced late last month that its foreign currency reserves would henceforth be held in euros rather than dollars. Bankers remember, of course, what happened to the last Middle East oil producer to sell its oil in euros rather than dollars. A few months after Saddam Hussein trumpeted his decision, the Americans and British invaded Iraq."
Thus why those nations discussed in the article have been rapidly converting the long end of the curve into short term Treasuries be they 1 month, 6 month, 1 year or 2 year expirations. Nobody in their right mind other than the Fed would want the 10 or 30 year Treasuries and thus the conundrum; if the Fed stops QE the real estate market enters into a new phase of paralysis.
There is no happy ending here other than after the blow off phase is completed, those who were prepared will be as wealthy as Buffett is now.
Too bad those dollars will be like Zimbabwe dollars....
About time. This insane spending is getting tiresome to many. Whom to blame but ourselves? We prefer to watch American Idol and Bachelorette when the rest of the world reads. The fucking kids here cannot add but the rest of the world is zooming by. Its insane to think that the world will sit by and let us horse fuck them when they have our debt by the shit load. As usual this will be denied and things will look ok when it is not and one day the dollar will collapse and it will be too savage and at great speed to do anything about it.
Highly volatile FX movements tonight; started with USD/JPY again, spilled over to EUR/JPY, then other USD pairs. Mostly stops being taken out, and usually these are retraced in a few hours at most (books love to do this when liquidity is missing - China is on holiday today), but everything is bouncing and Gold just hit an intraday high and has momentum.
Edit: RBA just raises rates .25% (minor surprise). Goodnight USD, hello risk-gunning - at least tonight. Except gold isn't going along for the ride; massive orders capping it at 1020 so far.
It's a trial balloon folks.....you gotta get the masses desensitized to the idea before you implement. Otherwise they might actually panic and do something to help themselves.... Desensitize them with some noise and they won't hear the steamroller coming up behind them.... No better place than to leak in than in UK pubs and let the lazy US media machine pick it up on page 6....
Good point, dude.
Too big to fail also applies to the USA. The bankers just front for the world's riches families throughout the world. The last thing they want is world war and civil disorder. In the end, all will cooperate to maximize total income to the families.
If this is true (and, as The Dude says, its a big if) then the stirling souflee may
start to fall before Dave Cameron gets into number 10. Will the UK go Euro or devalue
into oblivion? 12 months.
The G20 meeting may have been the 'last chance saloon', with a whiff of teargas
in the air.
Iran would be interesting to watch now.
Futures just went green!
Well then there must be some real bad news out there in this topsy-turvy world we live in where black is white and up is down.
Right is wrong now. Shut up the big lie. Dave Matthews.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOgHBMujTCw
Talk is cheap. The last time I heard such nonsence, someone copped a nice lashing.....but i must abmit, i am shittin a little
I am with lookma - no way you get that many people together to agree on anything - let alone something as ecclectic as a multi-currency reserve pool for oil settlements. Inevitably someone will cheat (ahem China) and someone else will feel slighted and drop out (ahem Russia) and negotiate a side deal.
As an historical example I offer one of the better moments of the PTJ video when he bets against OPEC looking to unify and reduce oil output. Within 12 hours he mopped up and we know the rest is history....
"no way you get that many people together to agree on anything - let alone something as eclectic as a multi-currency reserve pool for oil settlements."
which is why we chuckle when we hear all the NWO propaganda being spewed about this.
the more the heads of state have to get together to bicker over how to cooperate, the less efficient the mechanism of control will be.
as control becomes less efficient, the more individuals will be free to make their own decisions on how to survive & thrive.
which is why the tactic should be to decrease the efficiency of control as much as possible.
interesting video.. worth a look
http://cryptogon.com/?p=11411
Preemption anyone -- coalition of the bankrupt perhaps - who will be the sacrificial lamb?
Step 2 = US ups commitment to supporting Iraq
Step 3 = G-AS+4 scratches its collective heads
Step 4 = US replaces G-AS+4 imports with Iraqi oil
Going out on a limb here. Has anyone ever considered that this may have been the plan from day 1? They could not possibly announce this openly. Through out this crisis Ben has been trashed for letting the dollar be decimated. All that has been written is the obvious. Has anyone thought about of the "unobvious". Perhaps in my warped thinking, finding the "unobvious" will lead you to the real trade. I am not being facetious. Merely sharing my thoughts. I do not have the answer.
You kids are all missing this, including yours truly TD!
You post the link a week late and then fail to post the entire link and...???
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?video=1275511738&play=1
This guy puts it very well. All along it seems to have been a game of the Fed trying to sneak inflation into the US economy, while the indicators flash deflation warnings, with periodic wobbles timed to match the auction windows to chase the sheeple into the security of Treasuries.
Anyone who thinks 30 yr Treasuries with a 4% yield are a great investment because "inflation expectations are 1% is a fucking idiot (Bill Gross is being rewarded in other ways).
As Rickards says, there is no way the US can meet it's obligations except by inflation and they are going to increase the margin between real and official inflation, to keep a lid on social security.
Anyway, other nations clearly are growing weary with the idea of picking up the bill for bringing the US out of recession, these are US debts and the US needs to take responsibility for paying for them.
One thing that should be clear from the Aussie rate hike - we are not in a global recession, but the US most definitely is.
Interesting. Seems OPEC is indicating their displeasure with Obama's plan to steal their oil with payments in worthless paper. What are the odds of the dollar being removed from the black gold standard?
For all the talk of our military's strength, you must be willing to deploy the force. The thought of a liberal Democrat deploying the U.S. military to defend the black gold standard is truly ironic given the hyper partisan rhetoric of the past 8 years. It's not going to happen although things are heating up in the Middle East. Keep an eye on Israel, Iran and Russia.
If you force Israel into attacking as a last-ditch effort before Iran goes fully capable of launch (due to international inaction), you have probably WWIII. I just can't see even BO standing by as Syria & co. rush into all-out war on Israel. Ironically, this probably saves the Dollar while shooting black gold to the moon.
Can we get a WOPR-run scenario on what the reaction will be in SPY futures?
Nuclear powers don't attack each other. And non-nuclear powers like Syria sure as hell don't attack a nuclear power.
People get a bit divorced from common sense around here.
At least they possess the ability to do so freely and you possess the ability to respond. So far.
The US does not invade countries with nukes. The US entire foreign policy is at risk. If you don't want to be invaded you need nukes. If it gets the chance, Israel will be the first to drop nukes. I would even suspect they have a plan to drop one on an outlying area of their own country, so they can lob a few around the region. I hear they are pretty good at false flag operations.
don't forget pakistan.
Very interesting read if you have the time! It's from 2006.
http://www.energybulletin.net/node/12125
I happen to agree that the dollar is in trouble but for the record this article is written by Robert Fisk . He's considered a joke in the conservative blogsphere as he's very biased against america.. here's an example of his fine work from just before the iraq war(via powerlineblog.com):
"The road to the front in central Iraq is a place of fast-moving vehicles, blazing Iraqi anti-aircraft guns, tanks and trucks hidden in palm groves, a train of armored vehicles bombed from the air and hundreds of artillery positions dug into revetments to defend the capital. Anyone who doubts that the Iraqi Army is prepared to defend its capital should take the highway south of Baghdad.
"How, I kept asking myself, could the Americans batter their way through these defenses? For mile after mile they go on, slit trenches, ditches, earthen underground bunkers, palm groves of heavy artillery and truck loads of combat troops in battle fatigues and steel helmets."
You have to take what he says with a grain of salt..
Don't we have an agreement with the Saudis that we'll be their bodyguard as long as they sell us oil for US dollars? The royal family has it pretty good, no? Seems to me that our relationship with our creditors is pretty symbiotic, making me think the "dollar collapse" mantra is just a short term head fake. If I was a creditor to the US, I sure wouldn't want the dollar to collapse... at least not until the debt was repaid (or converted)... or if maybe say the IMF cut me a special deal to sell me some gold priced in US dollars....... hmmmm........
This is what I am thinking. If I had 1.8 trillion in US government bondage, how does devaluing those bonds completely help me?
The rising chorus of dissent merely echoes the rising chorus of fund managers and investors who've already increased exposure to gold.
The old "gold bugs" paradigm has been repudiated as gold is now the sophisticated put option which hedges currency risk, interest rate risk and organic growth in hard assets.
But I'm preaching to the choir :)
Right now discussions on denominating oil in non-dollars is preliminary and at the ministerial level. There's sure to be dissent amongst the clack as they salivate at the smell of new found power. But herein lies both risk and balancing forces. There will be those countries who don't want to disrupt the status quo because the ministers have it too good. But we have to watch the greedy ones who may abuse power and bully other countries because that is how wars arise.
IMO - we pull all our "peace keeping" forces and watch 'em scramble. Or we put our "peace Keeping" forces into action and just take all the fing oil. Isn't that what we have been aligning our forces for since '93?
Another question, doesn't the Fed like own everything and don't we have trillions owed to us for bailing out everyone. How will that fit into the equation?
It will end in an ugly fashion.
This sort of stuff sells copy.
i wish i could post to this thread, but i can't, because every fucking one of my posts never make it to the page for some stupid reason which i have no control over. i answered the faggot questions right everytime, only to be told wrong answer, wtf is going on around here?
Congratualations, you're in!
whoever's screening these, at least put a blank up and tell me why, wtf
Australia hikes cash rate target by 25 basis points to 3.25% earlier than anticipated although AUDUSD has pretty well discounted the rate move.
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601110&sid=aHjK0Sv9m074
that'll help the dollar
"Only one of 20 economists surveyed by Bloomberg News forecast today’s decision. The rest predicted no change."
http://www.netdania.com/Products/live-streaming-currency-rates-foreign-e...
Dollar getting mer-maid-ured.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bCtMvp55bmM
Oh, and good luck getting much physical bullion. Them sharp lookin' fellas in suits will sell you lots of paper bullion though, it's just as good...really it is. After-all, we know they're good for it, right?...LOL.
Just a thought but what if Obama by executive order closed the FED closed the markets ( for 30 days ) and announced a new only government run banking system fired hired only retired non ex GS employees and arrested the entire top 300 employees of GS and a few other duplicitous banks. Then did a state of the union every 5 days ( 6 total over 30 days ) and explained all of the new ways our banking system would work and that all of the money from all these bad bankers had been seized ( we would get most of our money back ) and in clear and concise detail explained all of the changes to rid our banking/investment world of its massive fraud. The SEC would be shuttered and a new agency formed from any and every CIA/NSA agent with securities fraud backgrounds ( remind them we are ridding the system of the scum and how important their hard work is ) Of course the entire specialist/MM system would be revamped and only the most NON ivy league honest accountants and mini regaional directors would take their spots and that next to every specialist on every floor a new ( pit chairman and NSA employee ) would make sure every thing went smoothly. All exchange employees would be ordered to return to work by the president and they would have to assist in the transition....many things like the above could be done to create ULTIMATE CHANGE.
So could we just do this...shouldnt we just do this?
My sources tell me you are frighteningly close to the PLAN.
Are you serious? I know this sounds gullible but I cant think of a more brilliant solution. Basically throw them all in jail and if needed effectively declare marshall law. In six months if it worked ( I think it would ) Obama would be considered the greatest president in US history.
If we seized everything these bastards took we would be half way home.
THW WHOLE WORLD WOULD RESPECT THIS.
Wow did you hear the US finally put an end to its horribly ocrrupt wall st and "fed" they arrested all the fuckers.
INSTANTLY...we would have 100 million people around the globe that would want to invest here JUST BECAUSE WE DID IT.
Without credibility we will eventually be ruined.
+10 but the problem is those tasked with making such decisions would be in effect indicting themselves
Obama to jail the very elites who pull his puppet strings? Yeah, that will happen! LOL!!!
The real threat to continued dollar depreciation is not jawboning by the oil club but REAL and CREDIBLE central banks like the RBA which just hiked rates in Australia. If rates are at emergency levels and the emergency is over, well Bernanke does not give a shit. RBA statement - "That basis for such a low interest rate setting has now passed..." Other countries will raise rates and we wont (the Fed will repeat their mistakes). the dollar will fall but not because of what the doomsdayers say.
I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT THE RBA did that. Their Economic Data a
has not been that great at all. HEY did you notice that the
Miners got upgraded last night and GS cut the USD. Today,
it looked liked they knew the RBA was going to do this.
Did this news hit the streets about noon time Eastern by any chance?
DXY at 76.42 and falling. Great job Ben.
The only surprise here is that a concerted effort to move oil away from the USD didn't come sooner. And frankly, it's still a pretty lame effort.
The "concerted effort" here, though, is a very interesting development. I'm beginning to think that the international community is seeing right through the "dollar devaluation" strategy the U.S. is trying to pull off. In the past, many countries looked at the U.S. as a bully-- but at least an honest one. Now, it appears, there's a recognition that the bully has become corrupt.
At some point in time, a corrupt bully loses all its friends. I'm sure its not lost on the Chinese or others that the only thing keeping the American people from going apeshit against their own goverment is a complicitly corrupt MSM. Future military engagements are going to be a challenge, primarily because we distrust our current leaders so much.
The endgame for now is the dollar. While there are incentives for our leadership to burn the buck, I think we would be in much better shape long term by supporting the dollar. And that means taking some nasty medicine and retiring bad debts.
Unbelievable as it sounds, our leaders seem hell bent on protecting the financial oligarchs over taxpayers domestically and dollar devaluation over dollar dominace internationally.
As will be the case, the unintended consequences will be many, and likely severe.
Sound Assetman.
There is the potential that this may well be an effort by others to either forestall and or exploit many of the ill effects you explore. There is a growing awareness of the need to corral the monster that has been loosed upon the crossroads of global finance and wonderment among many, including those mentioned in this article if those that loosed this monster now possess the will or the means to corral it necessitating these and potentially further actions. One thing is certain, nation states share many of the concerns and observations we here have. Interesting times indeed as the momentum of the avalanche continues to build.
We'll see.
Does everybody here know the Sun has been asleep for more than 2 years now, and the planet is getting colder?
This fight won't be won in a day. It will be a long process before it gets to the point the BRIC/Middle East want.
The only way (and by this, I mean the only way to win without war) is to funnel money into alternative energy like the world has never seen. Borrow like crazy from foreigners for the next 1-2 years. Take a large chunk of the proceeds, and I mean trillions, and put it all into various large-scale alternative energy behemoths. Like a bunch of Manhattan projects for alt energy going on all at once. The key would be to make sure every dollar contributed by the US govt must be spent with companies that must use 100% US labor and US factories to qualify.
Yes, I understand a lot of oil is used for non-energy purposes like chemicals, etc. They just need hydrocarbons, that's all oil is. Throw enough money at the problem and someone, some company, somewhere will figure out how to mass produce them using an alternative source. We already know there are fungi that can make them as a by-product. Maybe from just water and a different carbon source. My point being, if there is enough money at stake, someone will figure out how to make enough of it. To stop the oil companies from squashing it before it starts, they could be the first to be offered lucrative contracts to get the ball rolling.
So, back to the whole trillions in loans we take out. We continue to borrow at these absurdly low rates. Once the money really starts going to work, the money spent on new factories, research, technology, loans on that money and the millions upon millions of jobs would start sending money velocity through the roof. This would cause tons of inflation. However, in this case it would be good inflation since it is due to a greatly expanding economy. This would really kill the pain of actually paying back those old, low interest loans.
I would guess that we would be able to replace any oil needed in our economy at a small fraction of the price. This would completely destroy the oil market. Iran, most of the Middle East, and other countries that hate us, like Venezuela, would be absolutely crippled. Russia may not survive through something like that, either. The upper class of the Middle East would be right back to goat herding within a generation or two and degenerate back into a tribal society. China would suffer, since they are about 50 years late to the oil party. They are so busy signing long-term contracts for oil that they will continue drinking the Kool-Aid for decades to come. This whole process could easily take 10 years or more. Plenty of time for the oil producing nations to dig their graves nice and deep.
America will be able to export again as we start to set-up the industry in other industrialized countries that don't hate us, we would be able to sell the technology and possibly export the actual hydrocarbons. Most of industrialized Europe and Japan could certainly benefit. Most importantly, us Americans can continue thinking we are the greatest thing ever until we find more ways to screw it up.
I could care less about any environmental aspects of alternative energy.
(In the end, yes, I understand the odds of our current government being able to think more than 1 step out, or even pull something like this off, is impossible. Just a thought.)
Brilliant! Thanks for sharing.
Only 3% of crude is converted into plastics and solvents. The rest is gasoline and heating oil. I think you just made a compelling argument for natural gas - Pickens et al.
Spend 2 trillion on:
a) war in Iraq/Afghanistan
or
b) an alternative energy Manhatten Project
It is a tough call.
A new boom in high-tech (high value-added) jobs would certainly be welcome, we're capable of it, and it would help recover at least some of the lower-middle-class supporting roles. We definitely want to be exporting high tech, not tomatoes and sneakers.
Could it be that other nations have decided that playing the game of endless runs to the bottom with the bi or tri annual need to flee to relative safety is a death trip? That there is a limit to how far the game of debauched debasement and "real" asset manipulation can be taken?
Inquiring minds are indeed as interested as some national policy formulators and their national policy followers. Any further inputs from participants desiring an additional forum would garner interest and a bit of rigerous disassociated examination in exchange.
If only Hank Paulson came out in the beginning and made a statement like this.
My fellow Americans, it can go one of 2 ways.
We can pump so much money into it right now and keep it afloat for a while longer.
It will feel pretty bad and some people will be screaming bloody murder.
But it wont be so bad that it feels worse than a tooth ache.
Yes many of our firms will consolidate and most of us will survive and very few will falter.
You may see fantastic rebounds and mega bonuses in our sector while many of you suffer.
Until it finally crashes for good, and then it will feel something like 3 times worse had we did nothing from the beginning in October.
It may buy us one or two years, that's the best I can offer with this scenario.
Or
We can do nothing and let the chips fall where they may.
What will happen is that it will get bad very quickly. The way they screamed bloody murder in the previous option is nothing like what will be heard with this option.
What happens to our firms is that most of us go away with very few left standing even a shadow of our former selves.
A pretty harsh depression will happen and will severely affect all.
We will probably come out of this option much sooner than the previous option mentioned.
Which do you choose?
What's the third choice?
He did make this statement, but only to the banksters. They chose option 1 as they wanted the time to liquidate their portfolios...
I would have chosen the latter.
It's like dad asking if you want the spanking now or after dinner? I'll take it now thank you.
Yes, we are going to revoke the Rothschild and Rockefeller Franchises, and we are going to do it in a very sneaky way.
Looks like the Russians, Japanese & Gulf States are in on it with France desperately attempting to monitor the situation. How far will the DGSE go against the FSB now that so much prime French real estate, Chinese pig farming essentials & heat is tied up by them?
I am not an economist.... but what does the following mean?
http://www.citibank.com/citi/global/chn.htm
http://english.cctv.com/20090810/104800.shtml
http://www.bnpparibas.com.cn/chm/home/default.asp
http://china.db.com/
http://www.hsbc.com.cn/1/2/
and this are only some links from an ignorant....
i wonder if china, and russia are not already own by the big finance firms....
US and CHINA are only two names for them the real owners, they dont care which currency to trade they care only to keep us producing money for them....
Don't hold your breath.
How many blogs sites does it take to get to a revolution? I started following neurial awhile back then jumped over to Karl denniger & mish's blog then I stumbled onto zero hedge( the blog). Seems Many people here also frequent those other sites. Is zero hedge going to be the final blog that wakes people up, or a transitional blog to that final one that causes people to literally fire that first shot?
Animal Spirits ?
What does a carnivore hunt for in a herd ? The weakest that can be caught easily.
Our "enemies" ( we are finding out whom they are now ) Those with deep seated resentments against the USA , are going to strike when our economy is weak . When our leadership is weak , and we are indecisive on all issues . If I were an enemy of the US this would be the time I would strike . And remove our yoke from upon the shoulders of the world . One reaps what one sows, sometimes sooner , sometimes later . We are seeing this occur before our eyes . There are myriad reasons . Bottom line is anthropocentrism .
anyone read this blog post about spanish banks hiding massive loan losses?
http://brontecapital.blogspot.com/2009/10/are-spanish-banks-hiding-their...
The Independent = no credibility.
The secret "plot" is a load of hogwash.
So in a sort of overview for the stupid who has to do the maths question three times till an easy one comes along.
about 90% of yous thinks the yanks are toast because of this dollar thingy in a basket.
Hmmm X factors on this weekend and as long as i have a job Eastenders is on tonight yada yada. Then i am ok.As long as i dont look down i cant fall, surely the laws of that great cartoon American Wilee Coyotee (Alias Ben the bankee)shall prevail.
what you lot do is just scare each other. It isnt happening dem gubments and clever people will just print more money and alls will super fine. Just look at the stock market and the green shoots stuff. Its all sorted now we can get on with borrow spend high house prices more borrow against it.You know its gonna last forever because we in the west are the natural world leaders. As another great CGI animated puppet (just like our UK gubment) says in the advert.
SIMPLES!
Wow...Lotta pent up somethin.
I'll put 2,000,000 worth of short positions based on this one thread.
IWM
SPY
DIA
XLF
LQD
I'll spread em' evenly just to be a sport.
"The current deadline for the currency transition is 2018."
well, just about anything can happen between now and then. plans always change.
the initial release of the story is a nice opportunity for fx, crude, and gold traders to make (or lose) money...
so far, the story is being denied by the russians, saudis, UAE, kuwait, and the japanese:
http://www.reuters.com/article/newsOne/idUSTRE59518720091006
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=apt5We30uqlA
http://www.reuters.com/article/hotStocksNews/idUSL620079420091006
http://online.wsj.com/article/BT-CO-20091006-704394.html
it will be interesting if the french and chinese also deny.
Futures up 72 points on ??????? The final pump?
Not sure any plot is needed when states can help themselves better! Ask greenspan
The collapse of the Bretton Woods system in August 1971, when President Nixon withdrew the previous guarantee to redeem the dollars circulating in the international financial system with gold, at the rate of $35 to the ounce, was sparked by a steady worsening in the relative economic position of the United States.
The usd depreciated by 45 %
As a result of sterling devaluation in September 1949, the decade of 1950s began with the following dollar rates in foreign currencies:
Japanese Yen 360
Swiss Franc 4.37
German Mark 4.20
Dutch Guilder 3.80
Belgian Franc 50.0
French Franc 3.50*
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKBUNS-JKiA&feature=player_embedded#
I tried to delude myself last night into thinking the market would react rationally to this news and dump at least 100-200 points. However, my brain told me the DXY would weaken and the futures would be up...although I didn't expect SPX would be up 10.5.
Such is a market where an inverse relationship with DXY is all that matters to the computers. Isn't it interesting to see this news come out when our markets were floundering amongst layers of upward resistance? Just saying...
Thwwwwwweeeeeet! I interrupt your argument with the following categorial denial of nations alleged to be abadoning the dollar:
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601082&sid=apt5We30uqlA
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
You are treating Fisk as a serious source, which is utterly absurd. It will happen, the move to price in a basket or alternative currencies has been in motion for years. But believing a matter of this gravity would be leaked to this particular reporter requites complete suspension of common sense.
checkout this link for a well-reasoned response to Fisk's article: http://seekingalpha.com/article/165026-is-there-really-a-global-cabal-ai...
From acrossthecurve.com :
Brown Brothers on Dollar Weakness
October 6th, 2009 8:16 am
I have previously excerpted pieces of analysis by Brown Brothers on the currency market. With stories circulating about the demise of the greenback as well as the unexpected rate increase from Australia I thought that the write up today was pertinent:
There is a UK press story suggesting a secret meeting has been held between numerous Gulf states,Russia, China and France ostensibly to develop a multi-year plan to ditch the dollar for oil and use the euro, yuan, yen, and the Gulf Common Currency. Numerous countries took the unusual step to respond to the unsourced press reports and denied the charges. Most countries, including Japan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, and Russia have denied the allegations. Of course, the conspiracy-minded among us will see the denials as a further confirmation. Yet there are numerous reasons to be very skeptical. First there are numerous technical challenges, including that the yuan is not convertible and the GCC does not exist and there needs to be some “seasoning time”. Managing such a currency basket has proven very difficult in the past and would require a whole new bureaucratic apparatus to manage. Second, and more important than technical difficulties, it is not clear that it is in many of these countries interest to cut the role of the dollar. As Robert Mundell once note, “great powers have great currencies”. With Iranians seemingly moving inextricably towards acquiring nuclear capability, the unresolved wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the other dimensions of US power capability may also be relevant. The US dollar did seem to respond negatively to the press report, but this seems to be more a case of participants using the “stories” to do what they wanted to do in any event and that was to sell dollars. As we noted, the greenback was vulnerable as interest rate differentials incentivized many to be short the dollar and the G7 simply repeated their standard comment about the volatility in the foreign exchange market which gave the clear impression officials were not prepared to act on the dollar’s weakness. This removed some of the event risk posed by some of the individual expressions of concern.
Today’s RBA rate hike had been partially priced in before the event yet there was no knee-jerk reaction in which the Australian dollar was sold on the fact. One reason for the US dollar’s weakness is that the market was already predisposed to sell the buck given the low risk of intervention, post G7. The RBA hike and Gov Swan’s hawkish statement also reminds the market the US is lagging behind Australia and the Norges Bank where both are expected to hike in Q409. The RBA move reinforces the reason for US dollar weakness; that interest rate differentials continue to favor selling the US dollar against the foreign currencies.
The denials are out in force. We now KNOW it's true...and, no, I'm not being sarcastic.
One thing I love about ZH is the large number of intelligent followers who post insightful, knowledgeable, helpful comments. The sensationalized, over-emotional comments posted about this article are exactly the sort of thing that give the mass media ammunition to downplay the seriousnes and intelligence of ZH and its readership. Save the emotion for the bleachers, will ya?
Paging Robert Prechter. Would Mr. Robert Prechter please report to the front desk.
This is probably a goldman Sachs rumor-to save their oil holdings
It's over guys. The party is pretty much over.