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No way PIMCO gets burned on this.. they'll figure out a way to weasel out of this mess.
Well, for some reason I can't imagine a solution which doesn't involve printing a lot of money.
How about stealing a lot of money?
You're probably right though. Straight up stealing (without using a printing press) requires actual effort.
CDS through AIG. In other words, dirt cheap insurance courtesy of the US Taxpayer. Done deal, but yes, QEn forevah!
We don't need no stinkin' printin' presses.
At the Bernank computer screen:
Enter amount of money to create out of thin air:> 100 trillion
QE2.5, QE3, QE4 or whatever cant help now. Bond holders have realised the US has no intention of paying back the money they owe. if they do plan to pay back it will be with new diluted USD's which are worth far less than yesterdays USD's. Rising bond yeilds in a low / zero growth economy only ever means one thing as the greeks and irish will atest to: Austerity, and its going to be implemented in the US next year so get ready for it.
Whats more fake money going to help...nothin. Everyone knows this game is over. Bernanke could announce hes printing $5 trillion tomorrow and it wouldnt make any difference at this point except to tank the dollar.
Pardon my ignorance, but what actually determines the interest rate of the bonds? If this means that there are more treasuries in the market than a couple of weeks ago, therefore the increase in price, then why couldn't it be possible that PIMCO and other investors dumping the Treasuries?
Wouldn't this be the start of what Gonzalo Lira mentioned of the loss in faith of the dollar with the dumping in treasuries? ie the beggining of HyperInflation?
Some clarification would be appreciated.
The yield is set by supply and demand. If more investors want the bonds, they bid up the price, which reduces the yield. For example, if the bond pays $1/year, and you bid $100 and get the bond, the yield is 1%. If you bid $90 and got the bond you're getting 1.11%.
The storyline today is that yield is going up and price dropping because investors believe economic growth and some collateral inflation is coming, so they bid less for bonds because they want higher yield. Perhaps. Another explanation would be that investors are starting to see a downside risk to $70 trillion in debt.
Why are bank stocks up today?
Uh, cuz Bernanke manipulates them all?
Release the hounds!
No worrys Pimco has 33 Liberty Street on speed dial.
Its the new normal.
"Signs that the global economic recovery is gathering pace also pushed down Build America Bond prices"
Hahahahahahahaha. Yes, those municipal finances are recovering nicely - with CA issuing an Economic State of Emergency and Washington state calling a special session to reduce spending by $1.1 billion through this June. Welcome to the Recovery!
All local and state construction projects are about to come to a halt.
Exactly how is this shaky recovery supposed to move along after taking that body blow?
Don't forget that Illinois is not making tax payments to municipalities.
No doubt, next month we'll see massive outflows from bond funds and huge inflows into equities, commodities, etc.
How many months in a row have we seen equity fund outflows?
It is going to reverse sooner or later.
+1 Mom and Pop hiding out in bonds will get burned once again. No where to run, now here to hide. They'll get in at the top in equities too. In time for the next flash crash.
I'm sorry it just doesnt work that way. Bonds are supposed to be the safe haven, never lose place to park your money for regular folks.
If they are afraid of bonds, they aren't going to pile into stocks.
They cannot let the bond market collapse.
Equities will be sacrificed on the bond altar, because w/o the bond market, there is no market.
the bond market is the foundation of the pyramid (scam) ....and we all know what happens when the foundation becomes unstable
Mostly agree, except that "they" aren't in control of the Bond market. The best they can try to do is to influence it. The Bond market always has, and always will, eat Central Bankers for lunch. The U.S. is no different, but my bet is that Europe will go down first, before attention gets seriously focused on the U.S..
Exactly! Equities forming a platform base here and will rocket when the bond money continues to flow into the market.
My money's on the side that says if bonds falter, much less collapse, the stock market does the same.
Yea equities at an all time high compared to currency valuation, yet are just set to ROCKET all the time according to you. BOND money is the safe money...if even bonds are nothing but a casino what makes you think people will pile money into the top of the equity Ponzi? Ridiculous. Your posts are vacuous drivel.
"when the bond money continues to flow into the market."
Harry, you do know that money has been flowing OUT of equities for 31 consecutive weeks now, right? If anything at all flows into equities, it hardly represents a continuation.
Whole Foods just announced that they are re-instating their 10 cent dividend. Big deal.
Watch that stock take off tomorrow...
Can you post a chart of TLB, Coldwater Creek, and Mens Wearhouse for the recent 5-day period?
Consumer spending? Our economy will be increasing ruled by the top 50 corporations that have tremendous domination over suppliers, landlords, etc. But as incomes continue to shrink their margins will get compressed as they compete for smaller discretionary incomes. Oh, wash, rinse, repeat the economic cycle of death. Ever see Idiocracy?
Yup. MCD today (same store sales down in US), WallMart cutting staff. The game of musical chairs will play out big time next year: there will be big losers and winners since the consumer space is shrinking. Fewer firms will dominate their spaces.
A whole 10 cents; I better get trading! I might be able to buy to pieces of Bazooka Joe bubble gum.
Robot, thank you for that very insightful post regarding Build America Bonds..................
Please can we have cute bears to explain why pensions will cease to exist soo?.
And why, 10 years from now all the talk about liberty (and obesity) will be a distant memory in someone's blog.
It's all a farce boys. We knew this though, we read Zerohedge. Nuff said really. The rubicon was crossed long ago. Prop up or blow up. How will the fed ever stop? One hell of a croner to be backed into.
Fed gets its wish! Print More!
Everyone, everywhere, except the middle class American taxpayer, gets a bailout. I want mine now!
This (slight) pullback in gold and silver is a gift for those with dry powder.
Why did it pull back? & how far will it go? Sitting on X-Mas bonus wanting to buy.. Where is Turd F.?
We've entered the Twilight Zone: all asset classes need permanent support from the bureau of central planning: bonds, stocks, real estate, shadow banking, food stamps, unemployment, tax cuts. You have entered into an economy without time, space or dimension:
"There is a fifth dimension beyond that which is known to man. It is a dimension as vast as space and as timeless as infinity. It is the middle ground between light and shadow, between science and superstition, and it lies between the pit of man's fears, and the summit of his knowledge. This is the dimension of imagination. It is an area which we call... THE TWILIGHT ZONE." -Rod Serling
Some investors are saying they “may not participate in a market that won’t exist in two weeks"
Ha, but they participate in a market that doesn't actually exist now since the debt is never extinguished! They just perpetually loan gold to the government & its banking establishment. Fucking idiots.
Say Durden, call me slow since I only just rewatched Fight Club for the first time since it was released here, but surely there's potential to 'mayhem' things up a little more? Perhaps a huge sign on a highway billboard? A split second frame on a movie reel?
no issue here. the fed can just add munis to the pomo. when corporate bonds go, add them too.
Can't we just find some slow witted group of investors that are willing to part with large sums of cash for little to no return?
.....Oh right that would be the U.S. taxpayers.
The chart shows a backup in yield of 85bp in just two months. This analogous to a 15% drop in the S%P. This is a big deal.
If the 85 bp were permanant and spread to all maturities/issuers it would translate to a cost to municipals of $25b a year. Big bucks for states that are already up against it. Most of this hits NY, Cali and Ill.
What's the tipping point on this? We shall see. We are closer than you might think.
Bond investors are just selling to the willing Fed at these historic prices, it's like a going out of business sale.
How far away are we from the tipping point with muni and govt debt, whereby any announcment to "print" will actually cause rates to increase even more, NOT fall. Once that tipping point is reached, then the debt markets will implode, closely followed by the stock market and Uncle Sam himself. Maybe 6 months? Tyler's long the 30 year bond trade is well under water, and I don't know how he can live with himself with his ridiculous bond bull scenario, REGARDLESS OF QE4, 5, 6 OR 7.
Oh now they're saying if don't get the tax break extensions we will surely go into recession.
TD the yield curve is steepening, not flattening. Flat would be 4% on the short term also. This could keep Bernank awake at night if the trend continues.
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