This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Charting Apple Cash In The Bank vs. Cash Taxes Paid
Yes, we know Apple is a cash juggernaut, and could easily lever up its cash and equivalents balance, retain a 10% Tier 1 Capital Ratio and be one of the largest (and perfectly solvent) banks in America (just think of what $760 billion in fractional reserve power would do). But what about the benefit to Uncle Sam? Well, we decided to pull the cash taxes paid Apple disclosed on its cash flow statement for the purest definition of actual taxes paid each quarter, avoiding all that GAAP vs Tax accounting mumbo jumbo, and compare it to the cash the company has had at any given quarter end period. Prepare to be surprised...
Source: Capital IQ
Here is the punchline: in the period during which Apple accumulated $48 billion in cash: aka absolutely retained earnings, it paid out $8.2 billion in cash. Thank you US tax code.
And for the purists, here are the cumulative cash taxes paid over the recent time period compared to the cumulative change in cash over the same period.
»
- 25273 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
iEvasion
Does Timmay consult for Apple?
iTheft, more like.
hate the game not the player!
Unfairness brought to you by Uncle Sam all in the name of fairness!
The right amount tax Apple should pay is a fat 0, or sth like that. Taxing the competent to subsidize the incompetent is not the way to go.
fuck fairness.
If the left arm can't lift something, the right arm should not be forced to help.
socialist pussies
fuck you and any one else here and elsewhere like you
Note, he did type "forced."
Our work, or your (Big Brother) gun(s): Choose one, you cannot have both!
that's dumbfuck ayn rand fascism.
libertarianism is for individual people, and only people. corporations should be regulated to hell. otherwise 51% can vote to cook and eat the other 49.
You don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
Or you're deliberately trying to one over.
Either way, your impotence is showing.
Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.
-- James Bovard
The right amount tax Apple should pay is a fat 0, or sth like that. Taxing the competent to subsidize the incompetent is not the way to go.
Amen, plus, once again, businesses do not pay taxes. Does everybody get that?
That Graph pretty much explains it all.
Not quite.
Big Companies don't pay taxes, maximise profits, have cozy deals with governments and streamline (lay off workers). They grow by M&A, which makes money for the banks.
Small Companies pay taxes, strive for profits, have the dirty end of impossible regulations from governments and expand (hire workers). They try to grow until they can make an IPO (which makes money for the banks).
They are both competent, just different. Of course, a tax code that has more then ten pages is easier for some and harder for others. A simple solution would be to take all existing regulations and apply them only for companies bigger then X.
the most competent organisms are all bacteria and viruses. if our ecosystem is dominated solely by bacteria and viruses we're all going to hell, literally.
If I recall correctly Coleoptera is the "most competant".
At least as winning the population expansion game.
There are a lot of very competent people who pay 35%. You might know someone like this.
Unless your definition of competency is to get a personal tax lawyer to write off a channel stuffed GM product.
If you want to fix this country its really simple.
First $20k of income is exempt from all taxes. Every man, woman and child and corporation gets a food stamp allotment. No deductions for anything. low, mid, high, national sales tax for staples, accoutrements and luxuries respectively. No "non-profit" organizations. Including (as much as it pains me to say) churches.
In the USA, the typical lobby is set up as a non-profit organization whose purpose is to get congress critters to give them or their contributors tax exemption.
... by your own logic, they are even more competent than Apple!
If the government could run a program like this, the government wouldn't have any problems today. Here's a tax system that is fair and that the government can run. No income tax. Tax imports (holy schmoly! what?) and the government gets to spend what it has. If anyone wants to fight us on tariffs, good luck fighting a truly free market. Any wars in Chad or Liechtenstein which are absolutely vital for national security and stuff will just have to wait until they get the funds. Any redistribution of wealth ponzi schemes will just have to be run in other countries.
That would be pretty cool. <50% sarc> did we try this before? </sarc>
Why did we change? Are those historical reasons now mitigated such that we can get back to all men are created equal? Or will we end up with a caste system where the color of the dot on your forehead shows what quality of government tax lawyer that has been assigned to you?
Not sarc for this last bit.
Though technology has changed, man has not changed at all in the last 2000 years. There are those who want to rule, those who want to lick the boots of the rulers, those who don't care and those who want to be left alone.
+ $14 Gazillion
Dimaniac, "Taxing the competent to subsidize the incompetent is not the way to go."
Absolutely bang on the button mate.
The 5 retards (all State educated and still carrying student debt) that junked you are reason America is in the economic sewer. I'd tell them all to GF themselves but let's leave the Depression caused by Govt socialism and taxation (robbery of productive wealth) to settle the score
What is the point of this article ?? That apple does not pay enuf taxes ?? That is the most fucking ignorant thing I have seen posted on zerohedge. Corporations should not be taxed, it results in double and triple taxation etc etc. If their tax burden increased , all they would do ( and rightly so ) would be to pass the increased cost onto the end user ie. the middle and lower class. Also, the indirect tax revenue that they generate are enormous -- property taxes, regulatory fees, employee salary taxes, capital gains taxes, sales taxes . This posting really makes me want to smash my computer. I might as well have read an ilene or GeorgeWashington lefty marxist post. Sorry for the rant, yours, Maverick
All businesses should be pass-throughs like S-corps and REITs. Business taxes are ultimately paid by the consumer.
Considering Apple is filled with lib employees and Gore on the board then they should pay their fair share along with GE and the rest. I also agree that the incom petent get too much. I see them at the grocery store with 5 kids and filled carts with their food stamp credit cards. Many are illegals and the rest are Mugabe voters.
That expression is appropriate for the average shmoe, not for the big players with ample representation from the game makers. Corporate tax attorneys have the easiest jobs in the world for the money. So really, feel free to hate.
So tell me again uranian...how many people do you employ that pay taxes?
lol, i am junked for being pissed off that huge multinationals don't pay tax? a quick search on apple's revenues reveals that in Q2 2009, their revenue was approx 14 billion dollars, while their tax bill 1.8 billion dollars, i.e. they paid approx 13% tax. in answer to your question, nodhannum, i employ myself only and i pay around 40% tax. does it strike me as unreasonable that small business owners such as myself pay great gobs of tax while massive businesses frequently get away with paying none? yup.
Study: 12 Multinationals Pay Less Than Zero Taxeshttp://cebviews.com/2011/06/07/idti-study-12-multinationals-pay-less-tha...
I didn't junk you but I find it amusing that your reaction to being discriminated against in the tax code is to whine that someone else should pay more.
As if the government doesn't rake in enough already.
And as if you wouldn't end up paying that extra tax you pine for anyway.
That's a little short-sighted, hoping for better chains on your neighbor.
Why not work to get rid of the fucking chains, and the man with the whip and pistol?
Are they paying a tax bill of 8.2 out of 48? Thats 17% no?
Or is it saying paying tax on 8.2.
I am idiot help me
Something tells me no one in the mainstream media will give Apple a hard time about how much they pay in taxes vs. the oil companies.
noticed 2 anti-Apple stories today on ZH ...heaven knows what it must be like on mouthpieces (big empty gobs) of the establishment today at CNBC, CNN etc!
This one suggesting Apple doesn't pay enough tax and the other that Jobs had better watch his back as his Execs are organising a coup
Jobs must be next in line after Strauss-Khan and Murdoch for the NWO parasites business plan to eliminate all big independent voices (loose canons on deck) before they launch Operation Parasite Takeover ...let's hope it runs out of money soon when people stop paying their taxes to Govt that funds all this corruption, murder, mahem, anarchy and abuse of the free market
Zero Tax = Zero Govt = Zero Corp Parasites
+e^∞
Neither Jobs nor AAPL are represented in the NWO's steering groups. They're too busy just creating products, employment and enjoyment.
Fascism, pure a simple.
Die America Die. You are a cancer on humanity.
A people and its government are not the same thing (despite the "We the People" propaganda).
And the scumbags in gubmint got there how?
That would be a direct hit. I invite anybody to join me during my daily commute through the Big Apple and tell me that this is wrong. You will be repulsed at what you see. I can guarantee that.
Voting is an act of violence.
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing...
... and Americans unfortunately, these days, have become experts at doing nothing... except allowing a military complex so huge and well funded to go around the world killing women and children for oil that is... ho, hum.
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to be outnumbered 20 to 1. Government handouts work wonders at achieving that. Open borders, Wall Street bailouts and SNAP cards for everybody.
WestVillageIdiot "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to be outnumbered 20 to 1.."
No actually all it takes is for "good men" to be so stupid that they don't realise they are the ones funding evil and paying out of their own pockets for its continued existence and its cancerous growth.
Have you ever wondered how Govt pays for WS bailouts, the US MI Complex, all those ignorant bloated windbags in DC to gob off all day and those millions of layabouts on social security?
Why it's YOU of course
Don't you pay your taxes? So do you not fund the global murder and mahem? Do you not fund socialism? Do you not bail out the WS banksters? Are you not paying the wages of those sacks of shit in Washington?
Are you not responsible for this by funding it?
It's always somebody else responsible isn't it. You're waiting for some white knight to come along and do it all for you because it's hard to break away from the TV. Viva La Revolution, just don't expect me to lift a finger, can somebody else please do it for me.
And hey you're the 'Good Guy'. You could never support this vast sack of corruption you see growing like a mushroom cloud by the day. It's not like you pay taxes that fund every part of Govt is it? Stay stupid, keep paying taxes because the Govt leverages your zombified stupor and raises further mountains of debt based on the fact you're too dumb to ever wake up you're actually fueling/funding the corruption and way too lazy and/or spineless to protest.
Well i've woken up and i feel responsible for paying to fund this garbage. No more. I've stopped paying taxes by re-arranging my affairs to live off capital. I have no taxable income and no plans to have anything to tax until Govt implodes. My protest is extremely simple and easy to complete. I have taken responsibility and taken action and done my bit.
Don't shrug your shoulders at my suggestion, you are allowing evil to triumph. You are directly funding evil to triumph. Stop paying your taxes and you stop immediately endorsing anymore corruption, foreign murder and mahem, local civil and business abuse, spying, invasions of privacy and property (i could go on)
Instead of gobbing off and pretedning you're nothing to do with it be man and brave enough to wake up and realise you are actually funding it, Stand up and take some responsibility. Do your bit. Protest. Not by going out on the street and fighting the State Police that you fund to defend the parasites of DC and WS. Stop feeding these parasites. Stop Paying Your Taxes.
Zero Tax = Zero Govt = Zero Corp Parasites
It's my understanding that the IRS pays people to turn in tax evaders -- what's your address?
Come and get us. We're in full compliance.
I'm hunkered down in survival mode. No more employees (down from 15 for more than a decade), no more credit, no money in the bank. No parasite accountants or lawyers. No property tax on equipment. Enough earnings to pay the bills, no assets anyone knows about.
The joy of creating new designs, overcoming obstacles, helping customers create value, associating with the extremely rare able man, treating employees as co-owners and like family ... has been robbed.
Yeah. It's called shrugging.
I'm leaving it as I found it. Take over. It's yours.
Would you care to expound on this? I'm curious.
Hey, I don't see anybody else doing much about it either. Last time I checked, pretty much every country on Earth accepted the US dollar as their reserve currency, which is a bigger source of funding for our military than what we piddly US taxpayers contribute. Have you seen the graphs of our tax rates compared to the rest of the world?!
Even better, while our top-teir psychotic assholes are out there killing brown people by the unmarked mass grave full, there are fewer of them back here bothering the rest of us. The douchebag quotient around here has fallen in direct proportion to our foreign military engagements, reducing the number of dickhole power-tripping cops ever-so-slightly (but hey, I'll take what I can get.)
Sorry, world; you bend over and take our dollar, you get all the bullshit that goes with it. Your only chance is to get together en masse and come up with a plan; otherwise we will pick you off one by one.
Just ask Col. Gadaffi! Though that hasn't exactly gone according to plan, to be honest...
Turn that frown upside down buddy!
Fascism, pure a simple.
idolf Hitler in the whitehouse
Anybody that has seen Roger Waters' tour of The Wall in the past year has to love the way he mocks the iCrowd. I couldn't believe how much he makes fun of Apple and didn't get himself in trouble.
If I had my way, I'd buy all of you shots...
That one looks like a Druid
And that one's a babboon
Who let all of this white trash
Into the saloon?
Having a Millionaire as I post.
2 oz Maker's Mark
1/2 oz Cointreau
1 fresh egg white
2 dashes grenadine
Shake and pour into a Martini Glass.
Good for you. I'm going Red Bull and vodka.
It's funny that I got junked for playing off of a Pink Floyd line. Junks don't offend or worry me. I just wonder what the babboon that junked me was so junkity about.
"Cheers"
I think I'll just drink my maker's straight. Seriously, what does that taste like?
that show rocked...only thing better would have been to catch him with Gilmour in London
Waters/Gilmour Comfortably Numb
Too late. "America is dead, Long live amerika".
iRS
Good one, didn't catch it at first.
lol
iEBITDA (especially T)
nice.....a 10
aapl reminds me of msft. after awhile shareholders will realize they aren't getting **any** of that cash.
Apple shareholders have seen enough share price growth (capital gains) to not worry about divis... very different story across at Microshite as is their equally underperforming (bug ridden, virus attracting, slow-to-load, collapsing death screen, copy-cat) software
if any Doctors want to study masochism just ring up the shareholders or users of Microshite
Does this mean i should cancel my Macbookpro order? That would make me very very sad
U R iRich.
US Tax Code new motto (just like the old motto):
Unfairness brought to you in the name of fairness!
Who d'ya have to sleep with to get that deal? Does somebody have a picture of Ben in a compromising state?
Good for apple. They have done far more to improve human live than anyone in DC could ever dream of doing.
One example would be nice. Cure for cancer? End wars? Ending obesity? Instilling physical prowess (besides fingers, you know, that heart rate increase stuff)?
Bringing you "Angry Birds", everywhere you go. lol
In contrast to government, they notably did not promote cancer and obesity with absurd, lobby-driven health guidelines. As far as I know Apple hasn't started any wars recently either, and it certainly hasn't run 6 at the same time. While the characteristic light weight of Apple products doesn't promote physical fitness, there are many apps available for the iPhone and iPad that can help you keep to a diet and exercise regimen.
Last year I was able to leave my soul-crushing corporate job and make more money working for myself. Most of the hardware and software I used came from Apple (and some from Amazon and the wonderful people at Ubuntu). I'm not alone in this and know many people, especially artists, who use Apple products to provide for their livelihood.
So, let's see, what's the score? Doesn't promote cancer or obesity and can be used to prevent the same; doesn't murder multitudes of brown people in foreign lands; creates jobs domestically.
Yeah, fuck the government, let Apple keep its money.
I don't wish to dispute the points you make. But this is hardly a reason for apple to keep its taxes this low.
Enjoy paying more than your share to make up for what they aren't paying.
The only zero-sum game is in your head.
Starve the fuckin beast.
Cure for cancer? Cancer is a thousand different diseases with multiple and I mean multiple causes. My lab is based on mostly macs to handle cruching data, in addition to running instruments in our hormones and cancer group. So yes...macs do play a part in slowly but surely pealing away the secrets of nature.
Is your Mac smart enough to tell you cigarettes cause cancer?
Focusing on prevention would sure dry up those juicy research grants.Cancer has been turned into a business. All the diseases that used to be called old age have been hijacked for profit by various interests.
Since the #1 cause of cancer is genetic, I guess the real prevention is killing every human being in existence. Score 1 for gov't!
Actually, most common cancers are viral...though, genetics do influence one's ability to fight them.
If the cash is held as bank deposits it is probably already levered up by the banking system.
Did it increase debt? What is its deferred tax expense? You can have a loss and owe income taxes. You can should 'book' profit and not owe any tax.
The fact is that if Apple has federal taxable income, it WILL be taxed at 35% flat rate.
About 17.5%. Still ten points better than GE. Just outrageous though how if you are a crony or a large firm you don't have to pay any taxes so you can accumulate more cash than the government has.
14.6%, you got to add the tax paid out onto the cash retained to get the total cash income.
And they gotta envy GOOG, who can pay a mere 2% on their international earnings, because it is pure cash generated out of intellectual property with virtually no hard costs per unit sale - and I would bet most of the hard costs are absorbed by the US unit anyway e.g. write off all costs in the USA and push all profits overseas where they can become a double-irish dirty sanchez tax sandwich. Hell I envy them! Alas, those of us like AAPL who have to make stuff before we can sell it end up paying all the taxes. Sell information, bits, digits, and licenses and you can keep almost all your money safe from the taxman.
Good for Apple. They did not spend all they earned as so many others do.
Total cash accumulated over the years versus taxes paid in the quarter does not say much otherwise.
Should plot against the change in cash for each quarter - or a least plot taxes on a separate axis.
Indeed. Second chart.
butt, butt, butt..............Bill Gates is helping to improve the loo/toilet/shitter......bwhahahhahhahhahhahaha
Those charts make me wanna puke. Fucking government. I can't wait until it eats itself...xoming to a theater near you soon.
...one more brick in the wall.
Apple Coup of the Federal Reserve???????? Whos in and when does Goog and Apple join forces to topple them......always knew there was something up with that "i" thing........iRS or I are screwed
I wonder which is worse: MNCs who avoid paying taxes and culprit for shifting jobs offshore, or banks (who are also MNCs) who receive most of uncles sam's cash. Together they make or break a country, but who cares, amerika watches tv eats bigmacs and buys ipads 2/3/4/5.
Okay, after I looked at the financials, Apple has to be shifting income internationally and importing expenses through transfer pricing. They have a tax rate of 20-25% each period which is really good.
If you want to know what Apple thinks they will pay in taxes, you need to look at the tax expense. Cash taxes does not mean shit. It is the most misleading number I can give you. I am sure that is why politicans and activists love quoting it.
I am sure in a way they do. So does GOOG, though GOOG doesn't sell hard goods they sell info so they can absorb all or most of the costs of distributing information here, while licensing the search results/ads to an international entity who in turn licenses them to a 3rd party which is how they got the double irish or double dutch tax scheme to work for them. AAPL may not have to do a lot of transfer pricing though because everything is made overseas anyway by 3rd party factories all to AAPL specs. I am no expert in AAPL books to be sure, but I imagine they absorb most of their marketing, design, R&D and distribution expenses here in the USA which should allow profit margins on international unit sales to inflate. There are only the hard costs to account for.
Not sure whats so misleading about tax, actually paid, in cash.
Ha...........I can post from Nicaragua............I hear "I dont care anymore" playing in Black Eyed Roosters cafe:)
vaya con dia and come some a one legged apache at San Juan del Sur some year
Hate them all you want, but they make amazing products. Ditched my PC for a Mac last week - will never go back.
Sent from my iPad
While driving, or at work?
FYI...just be careful with it...apple builds easily breakable products....it is part of their overall sales strategy....
if you plot political contributions vs. tax "savings" I bet it really gets obscene ROI.
+3
hard core obscene
If i-bought the popular i-pad
would i-think it the best toy i-had
or just another distraction
to avoid any social interaction
give me monitors and screens and i-glad
An i-Pad costs much less than a Harley Davidson Motorcycle while still having the same visual impact.
The world is full of hot 22 year old women who want to be seen on the back of your Harley Davidson 80cu.in. shovelhead; as part of the visual appeal. They don't give a shit whether you have a fancy cell phone or not. trust me on this.
To many people APPLE is a religion....and religions are tax exempt....they worship every new item....the new tech GOD....
Now I understand why Wal-Mart iPad displays look the way they do.
http://technobuffalo.technobuffalo.netdna-cdn.com/files/2010/10/walmarti...
I'm not entirely sure what an ipad is; it sounds like some kind of fancy cell phone; but the name is vaguely unsettling; like Kotex pad, Maxi-pad, etc. Is it okay for a real man to say, well, I have my ipad today; or is it, "kinda gay"?
The fact that you used "kinda gay" would greatly question your real man credibility. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
...just mention your hemorrhoids were bleeding and probably no one will ask any more questions...
and I believe there is an app for that - iPray or something.....
16.6% paid out out in cumulative taxes (cash) vs the 48 Billion increase in cash over a 3 year span. Quick lets compare it to Google or GE. Obviously increases in cash not only come from earnings but increased payables , reduced receivables etc et al. Compare the actual percentage of taxes paid from operating income to most of the major corporations. Also look at the tangible assets on their balance sheet vs the balance sheets of other major corporations.
"one more thing"..they just received a broad patent on the iPhone and the iPad that was successfully tested in court against HTC. This means "under license from Apple" on every touch screen smart object sold and never ending royalty stream . That more or less takes out the overhang out from Steve Jobs illness. Trading up to $400 in AH.
As their licensing program becomes more visible, this should set them up for years. Remember "first to file" now instead of "first to invent". No manufacturer has the margin to go against them on price or the money to fight them in court. They will be the Cisco,Microsoft of the 90s for the next decade at least.
This government picks winners and losers. Apple, GM, and GE are winners. The American tax payer is the loser.
No matter how bad this depression gets there will always be companies who survive and do well. AAPL is one of them. MSFT, WAL, COST, Target, not all go into the abyss.
Speaking of into the abyss, GS my favorite Squid, just announced 1,000 layoffs. Ah yes, entering the 3rd year of the recovery. Good job Obama.
A&P, Sears, Montgomery Ward, Woolworth, Gimbles
Retail is a hard master.
Ampex, Memorex, Fairchild Semi...the Valley is littered with the bones of once great companies.
Banks sowed the seeds of their own destruction. Like a jet engine they needed regulation. Closing the barn door now after the horses escaped is too late. Such is the world of the darwinian freemarketeers. Did the nazis learn anything from their mistake? And the rest of the world paid a horrible price.
Nothing changes. Taxes are literally for serfs although people forget that the employees on average of these companies pay the serf 30-50% tax when all is said and done they are able to, like most MNE's, avoid taxes on a scale that dwarfs that of the peasantry. I am opposed to nearly all Federal Taxes but to pass the buck off to the middle class while hiding behind intricate tax evasion rerouting is something I wish people would understand when they want to villify "Millionaires who do not pay taxes" it is the billionaires who have carved out the double standard.
Small business always gets it in the rear. People forget what a TAX is. It is thieving for the cost of doing business and the production of labor or services. Most forget the massive amount of sales tax consumers pay on the state level.
Agree +++
Money is like fluid and it "circulates" and creates lakes, ponds and puddles.
It will eventually reach the Ocean, and evaporate once again.
Zero-sum game, wih FR adding silver oxide to clouds.
Lack of tax is an incentive. That's why they tax to begin with. I think our incentives program needs to be reexamined.
Ah, the result of those "HIGHEST CORPORATE RATES IN THE WORLD" that is a GOP talking point for everyone to see. It ranks up there with subprime/Community Reinvestment Act being the only cause of the financial crisis.
I am Jack's Broken I-Pod.
With some sincerity, and qualifying that I have no training in Theology....
I am relatively convinced that the US tax code is the closest thing to the Anti-Christ as referenced in Abrahamic (Judeo-Christian-Islamic) scripture. Way too many details to go into but the key components are:
1. It has a complexity that stops people from enjoying free will
2. It imposes a system of pseudo morality that obscures true morality.
3. It is a multi dimentional proxy for violence. It arbitrarily takes funds from those who oppose abortion to pay for abortion. It arbitrarily takes money from pacifist to wage war. It subsidizes children for some, but is a burden on others to the point they can not afford children (on terms those people would want). If a person is gay or too ugly to mate/marry they automatically are taxed at twice the rate of those who do/can.
4. Companies like apple, G.E., FoxNews, etc. can structure their tax liabilities such that it is cost prohibitive for the IRS to even try to audit them. So the IRS goes after the average middle class American. As was shown in the Murdoch trial today, the Murdoch's admit they spend all of their time on tax compliance/avoidance, and therefore did not have time to prevent tortuous activity. It also explains how they as a corporation could outcompete and aquire all their competition.
5. Abject unfairness, as has been stated by top economists and experts, including the current head of the IRS, Timothy Geithner.
6. Its thousands of pages are the "compromises" between the two major political parties in america, both of whom are in a mutually corrupting downward spiral.
7. It is largely unnessecary in its current role. 70% of government spending is debt/printed money. But people who do not comply are thrown in 100% prison. not 30% prison.
I could go on. Again, I am not trained in theology, but I do think it is the closest thing to a true anti-christ that has ever existed on earth. I am not blaming it on any one person, including those who work in the tax industry. I am not necessarily saying it is the most evil thing that has ever existed (that would be Satan embodied and his other servants). But the tax code has many of the attributes of the anti-christ, including having more words than the scriptures of all the major religions. I do believe in taxation. it just has to make some effort to be fair. And not exist only because thats what politicians need to do to feel validated in this mortal life.
All taxes are integrated into the price of the products. We all pay their taxes anyway. The tax system is unfair because those with influence and money don't pay much. The tax system should be something more transparent, simple and fair, but I don't think corp's should pay taxes. Corp taxes=stealth taxes on the citizen.
Amen and amen to that mind_imminst. The angst and envy of some here are revealing. People pay taxes because they are at the end of the line. Taxes have to be built into a product be it lettuce or iPads.
What do you mean by this?
Do you mean that the system as implemented appropriately spreads the burden into product prices and avoids duplicative taxation on dividends?
Or are you saying that the people who show up at 08:00 on Black friday to rush the gate at Walmart are lazy and should have showed up at 04:00 to get the $300 I-Pad (limit 2)?
Wrong...not all costs are passed onto consumer unless margins are very tight and product is a commodity in very competitive market. As an example consider NFL. Does the cost of running the league, running the teams, have anything to do with how much money they get in TV revenue?..if thier stadium costs or labor cost doubled, would they be able to get more money out of ESPN? Doesn't ESPN bid what they think the games are worth regardless of how much or how little NFL nets? Doesnt NFL charge as much as they can for game tickets based on market demand. if ,market demand goes down, price goes down, if market demand goes up, price goes up. If suddenly players cost half as ,uch, why would they lower ticket prices, they would just be forgoing profit for a high in demand product or just letting scalpers benefit instead. So if NFL suddenly had taxes double, would ESPN suddenly bid higher TV rights. Same goes for oil companies...they were profitable when oil was selling for $25 a barrel, now due to demand, they can get $80 to $100 a barrel, the cost of oil has not gone up because of cost of producing it has gone up due to demand...hence their net profits are huge right now....supply AND demand make the price, if profits are hige, increased costs will mean smaller profits, not necessarily higher prices whethe cost are due to laborr costs, material costs, or taxes,
Apple truly empowers our current culture...to be shallow, unproductive and obnoxious. U.S.A. !!!
+ the 4 train
It's still iCrap to me. I don't "need" to be connected at all times.
Tax it well when products enter the states, and it won't be long until it's made in the USA.
Medical costs are high, hate the doctors because you have to see them. But $100 professional sports tickets, no high profile protests because we want to go see some professional player who plays wherever for whomever pays him.
Now on to Oil vs Apple:
We have to buy gas to fuel our cars so we can live in the suburbs and drive to work, petroleum for fertilizer, plastics, shipping of food and all those things from China. How we scream.
But ipods/pads/phones/macs/tv/tunes/time capsule-well these are really just entertainment- no complaints from the peanut gallery.
Moral of the story: easier to sell something that people want rather than what they need.
BTW, a guy who had some knowledge of costs of building and shipping ipads said it cots Apple like $43 and sells for $600? Not much longer before we wil be saying"Gates, Allen, and Ballmer, eat your hearts out." What irony that Jobs will likely not live long enough, or at least quality of life enough, to fully reap the benefits of his vision.
Jobs has seen the victory over Microsoft. I hate to quote Ritholtz on ZH but this was well said, I thought:
"At the same time, Microsoft had grown fat and wealthy and complacent: They became a Wall Street darling and founder Bill Gates became the wealthiest man in the world. But, the company lost its drive and whatever creativity it had. The history of Microsoft is not one of innovation – most of its major products were purchased, copied or stolen – but it quickly became a utility, with Windows and subsequent replacements a necessary evil to maker computers operate.
And what of their Innovation today? Microsoft has missed just about every major trend in computing over the past decade. They missed Search, they missed MP3 players, had to buy webmail, missed user generated content, maps,blogging, online video, cloud computing, location sensitive apps, smart phones, Apps, texting, social networking, tablets, micro-blogging (ie, Twitter). On and on goes the list of latest and greatest technologies, with MSFT nowhere to be seen.
The list of recent Microsoft innovations is astonishingly short. They were always better copiers than they were innovators; even now, they seem to have forgotten how to steal effectively. They may have bought their way into gaming, dropping several billion dollars to become competitive, develop the X-Box and buying Bungie — but all in, it is hardly a winner for them.
And now their latest ill-advised, wildly over-priced, $8.6 billion purchase of Skype. It is their attempt to buy their way into the Smart Phones, yet another innovation they missed. It is their attempt once again to purchase relevancy.
The rich fat kid just wants to be cool . . ."
But so what really? He may have iCrapped the World but I hope he has tended to more than that.
"We believe the Internet is a fad" (paraphrase)
- Bill Gates
Excuse me while I take a moment to look up my NETBIOS name.
Flag as close to home (1)
PS. Bing sucks.
Irony? Poetic justice is more like it.
So AAPL collected $8 billion from consumers and passed it on to the .gov.
That is a little more than BAC, GE and News Corp. Maybe even combined.
Not a bad deal being as how they make puters and iPads, not money trees.
Good for them. Better than this capital going to the shit show in DC.
Crap. My cash vs. tax ratio doesn't look that sweet. I need a new CPA.
Another reason I won't buy Apple.
DavidC
How much did state and local governemnts take in in sales tax on each APL product sold?
Noone is paying taxes.
The bottom 99% get a free ride. The top 1% are all tied for first.
Why should Apple be any different: making money off of money they shouldn't have had (taxes) in the first place? And you thought a company that can make a great computer wouldn't be able to copycat Wall Street pillaging methods?
It's surprising that there wasn't an effort to take it private back when the stock sold off; big fuck up, as that is most likely the next oligarch move after they slam the market again; what else is left for them to steal other than ALL the profits from the profitable companies?
Well, FWIW, AAPL has a long way to go to beat GE, which comes in at a big ZERO in US taxes paid.
All that cash IS in a bank somewhere. Earning 0%.
Listen to all you slaves bickering about preferential treatment given to certain people on the plantation, rather than questioning the fundamental existence of the slave owners and their plantation in the first place. Keep charging that red cape, suckers.
LMAO.
My guess is most of the Americans on ZH are far ahead of the system, both as far as impact from the government and the management of their assets.
A large group of "slaves" in Connecticut drive around in BMW's and Audi's and live in pretty nice houses, too.
Slaves... lol. C'mon man, be real.
meh just idelete this...
Apple is certainly nearing the top of their darling status. Nobody can dispute that this is a cash machine and I am typing to you on a Mac and have an iPhone but unless they can begin to monetize their Itunes with video content sales to control the market similar to their iPod revolution they will stagnate.
For 3 years I have said now the next great move for Apple will be to create a home LCD touch screen that allows customers to build a digital content library that is either virtual or stored and can be synced with mac/iphones.
There is so much money to be made with their branding alone in achieving this they need only push. Imagine coming home to your Apple LCD placing your iPhone on top of it to charge and sync while being able to sync your Mac from your coffee table to become your giant monitor while at home. They can eat the lunch of Netflix. Make it a touch screen similar to the revamped MSFT surface and finally millions will begin to embrace digital for visual. Imagine coming home to your stored DVD/Blu Ray library and pulling up any series or film in a second.
Furthermore introduce a device which allows you to scan and store purchased hard copies of DVD and Blu-Ray content and add to your library. How they have not developed this product or being steps toward developing this product is asinine. This confirms my fears that when Jobs is gone this company will lose an important mind for creative innovation and thought.
Essentially most cell phones are becoming replicas of the iPhone and Google is taking market share that is putting Blackberry out of business so this will only harm Apple in the coming years since phones really are as advanced as they will be for the next decade. The next logical step is to improve and innovate on the home display and digital video content which nobody seems to want to attempt.
And remember..Apple is more reliant upon margins no other company sees for their products and is unsustainable as competition and innovation grows while labor costs for materials and Chinese slave labor ends.
Thoughts?
Next move ? The iQE. A portable dollar bills printing device, approved by Bernanke himself. So that we can all support the US economy growth, create jobs, control deflation, etc.
Agree on some kind of 'home LCD touch' that will be killer.
I actually havent bought a movie in years (besides what i see in the movies from time to time). I use a WD TV Live box, coupled with some large HDDs, and i download high quality 1080p rips right to the HD and then have access to a library of ~200 movies in a small 1TB box. Simple. Plugs right into the flat screen, no other config required.
The day they brought bluray in was a slap in the face to consumers.
VHS->DVD->BluRay and theyre just going to keep (marginally) improving the quality later on, so why bother changing your collection and spending the cash.
What are you going to possibly ever do with that collection of tapes you have? What about DVDs? In a few years, the same inevitable fate will happen to shit-rays.
Good riddance; digital media is the way to go.
Disagree. Not even 5 years ago i was wishing my phone would have internet just like those fancy Palms (i think) did. Look at all smartphones now. Hard to say whats next, but i simply wouldnt be at ease without having the interwebs on my phone.
I think it's fair, now lower everyones tax rate to 8% and have the Gov live within its means...
How much did their employees pay?
How much would the employees have paid, if Apple made their products in the US? (instead of using slave labor that jumps out of windows (pun!))
How much cash would they have on hand, if they employed Americans?
How much would it reduce that tax bill?
Why would I as an Australian consumer want to pay a premium for an iProduct so I can contribute to your nations war mongering by way of buying from an company that employs and pays tax to USG? Even if I did want to contribute to this cause I think the lower quality good you guys produce would bring me back to my senses.
How much of that cash comes from overseas sales? Is this an argument for a flat tax rate of about 17%...no deductions, no credits, no write-offs, and no IRS? I'll jump on that boat for damn sure.
How much of that cash comes from overseas sales? Is this an argument for a flat tax rate of about 17%...no deductions, no credits, no write-offs, and no IRS? I'll jump on that boat for damn sure.