Charting The Non-Linearity Of Hyperinflation, And Predicting America's Future Courtesy Of Ancient History

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Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:15 | 1325418 Pepe
Pepe's picture

"The abuses are piling up in obscene fashion" Understatement

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:24 | 1325458 Michael Victory
Michael Victory's picture

Q. Where is the love?

A. In Chin and Indy.


Tue, 05/31/2011 - 12:29 | 1325653 Manthong
Manthong's picture

"It is amusing that just like the Imperial decline of the Roman empire in the Common Era was matched by unprecedented fiscal profligacy"

It is also amusing to note that just after that, in the fourth century AD (Anno Domini for all you with education debased like the dollar) that the heathen Romans "came to Jesus".

Just sayin'.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 15:14 | 1326123 A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000
A.W.E.S.O.M.-O 4000's picture

I’m sick and tired of all of these comparisons to the Romans. What have the Romans ever done for us?


Tue, 05/31/2011 - 16:29 | 1326414 Manthong
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LOL. But don’t forget Gladiators, fiddling while the city burns, toga Parties, orgies, vomitoria, as well as Roman Meal Bread and Circuses.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 16:14 | 1326324 JB
JB's picture

they didn't "come to Jesus." Constantine merely painted over the same pagan ancient Egyptian/Babylonian religion with Biblical characters. and continued to slaughter the REAL followers of Christ.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 16:27 | 1326403 Manthong
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Well then, at least he put on a show. We don't even do that anymore.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 16:30 | 1326434 Anton LaVey
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The "real followers of Christ" never existed.

As soon as a religion -- any religion, really -- becomes "mainstream" and accepted by the powers-that-be, it ceases to become a source of peace and (limited) enlightnment and it becomes a tool of whatever faction is the top dog at the time.

This has been a pattern for all of history. "Christianity" today is nothing more than a very debased, twisted, and watered-down interpretation of the teaching of the radical Jewish rabbi of the 1st Century. You know the one -- he threw the money-changers out of the Temple of Jerusalem a few decades before said Temple was razed to the ground by the Roman legions.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:14 | 1326613 Remus
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Tue, 05/31/2011 - 21:43 | 1327286 Hephasteus
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Ya but I'm dying to become a preacher and offer hearsay after hearsay interpretation of the character of jeebus prist.

Because everybody knows the best way to understand something and get to the truth  is through hearsay.

Wed, 06/01/2011 - 11:30 | 1328865 Byronio
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I caught that when reading the article but the days of BC and AD have disappeared, by design, nothing by chance.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 12:37 | 1325677 bankonzhongguo
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That is a very cool posting. 

More insight than a 100 year's of GS BS.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 13:14 | 1325758 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Maybe I missed when someone posted this

A prominent, 74-year-old Egyptian former bank chairman, Mahmoud Abdel Salam Omar, was arrested at New York's Pierre Hotel this morning in connection with an alleged sex assault Sunday on a 44-year-old room maid.

The attack allegedly took place when the woman delivered tissues he requested to his room.

The incident recalled allegations against another international finance official at a New York City hotel earlier this month. On May 14, a maid at the Sofitel Hotel claimed, former International Monetary Fund leader Dominique Strauss-Kahn sexually assaulted her in his Manhattan hotel suite. After that incident, New York state Assemblyman Rory Lancman (D-Fresh Meadows) proposed a bill that would protect hotel workers from similar incidents by requiring a panic alert device for staff members who enter hotel rooms.

Strauss-Kahn is under house arrest in New York as his case proceeds.

Omar was arrested on charges of sexual abuse, unlawful imprisonment, forcible touching and harassment.

Sources said that the executive was clad in pajamas when he answered the door to let the maid in. He then allegedly groped her breasts and tried to kiss her before she fled.

Sources gave ABC this account:

When the maid arrived, he asked her to leave the tissues on a table inside his room. Once she was in the room, he allegedly closed the door and locked it.

Egyptian Banker Arrested Watch Video 'Real Deal': Who Is DSK in 90 Seconds Watch Video Dominique Strauss-Kahn Visits Doctor Watch Video

Then, he allegedly grabbed her, kissed her, and fondled her breasts and buttocks. She fought him off and, according to sources, she told him she wasn't there for that. He then grabbed her again. This time, sources say, he rubbed up against her and she again resisted him. He then asked for her phone number. She gave him a false number, and he let her out of the room.

Although the alleged incident occurred on Sunday, the maid reportedly was told by hotel staff that she must report the incident to her direct supervisor, who was not on duty until Monday. This caused a delay in the incident being reported to the police.

"Experienced NYPD detectives found the complainant to be credible," said New York Deputy Police Commissioner for Public Information Paul Browne.

Browne promised "further details" upon Omar's arraignment, and additional comment when asked for more on the arrest or the alleged assault.

Omar now heads El-Mex Salines Co., a solar salt producer in Egypt. He had been chairman of the Bank of Alexandria, sources said.

In the last three years, at least 10 other hotel housekeepers say they have been attacked in the U.S., according to an Associated Press review of court documents and news reports.

Nannies, domestic housekeepers, and elderly caregivers also encounter difficulties on the job. A 2006 report from New York advocacy group Domestic Workers United found 33 percent of domestic workers reported verbal or physical abuse by their employers.

The Pierre, a luxury, 5-star hotel located at 5th Avenue and 61st Street adjacent to Central Park, released the following statement regarding Omar's arrest: "The Pierre's priority is the safety of our guests and staff. We take all complaints very seriously and investigate thoroughly. This incident has been formally reported to the New York Police Department and is under investigation. We will fully comply with the investigation as requested."

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 15:01 | 1326095 zerozulu
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I must say, man and horse never gets old.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 19:22 | 1326977 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

The 74 year old Omar was charged with assault with a dead weapon.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:16 | 1325422 redpill
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So instead of a Consumer Confidence Index, we need a Currency Confidence Index, tracked monthly, to indicate how people feel about their fiat currency. Preferably not run by the BLS.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:59 | 1325576 Whatta
Whatta's picture

That is a great idea. But who would could trusted to give us an accurate reading and, would it always be "unexpectedly" lower than anticipated with last month being revised downward?

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 12:20 | 1325630 tmosley
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We have that already.  It's called "the price of gold".

It's a pretty good indicator.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 13:22 | 1325789 magis00
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Tue, 05/31/2011 - 14:27 | 1326007 Internet Tough Guy
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Yes, the price of gold is a good indicator, because it floats against the currency. But suppose you linked it to the currency, by a set price. Would it still be a good indicator? No.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 14:37 | 1326041 tmosley
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It is if gold is freely available at that price.

Even better if the currency itself is gold.  Or if the gold is held by private banks that are subjected to the most stringent regulations the free market can muster.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 14:42 | 1326052 Internet Tough Guy
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The romans had your gold currency. They had bi-metallism. What happened? What always happens?

Free gold from currency. Let it float as store of value. Most people save little or nothing. They don't need or want hard currency. You will make their debts harder to pay back and they don't accept it. Never.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 15:02 | 1326096 tmosley
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Uhhh...their civilization lasted for more than 2000 years and was the greatest ever known to mankind?  Then they started debasing and they were wiped out by the Turks?

Go talk to your grandparents if they lived through the great depression.  Ask them if they save money.

Honestly, can't ANYONE explain to me how Freegold will stop hyperinflation in the transactional currency?  Indeed, can anyone explain how it isn't ACTIVELY ENCOURAGED, as people do not save in terms of the transactional currency, where savings is the SOLE SOURCE of purchasing power?

I have asked this question a half a dozen times, and the only answer I can get is "trust the government--it's not in their interest to have hyperinflation".  This is a highly stupid idea, and is not historically accurate.  Governments want to spend.  Give them a printing press, and they will USE IT (surprise!).  Any monetary system that ignores this basic fact is cruisin' for a bruisin'.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 15:19 | 1326116 Internet Tough Guy
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As simple as it gets:

You will understand when it arrives.


Tue, 05/31/2011 - 15:28 | 1326159 tmosley
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I understand it now, but there is no check against hyperinflation or abandonment of the transactional currency.

This means Freegold collapses to a gold standard of some sort, and fast.  Period.

People need to understand that there is nothing new under the sun.  Every currency system that can be tried, has been tried.  Metal standards, free from government influence are the most stable form of currency, and will lead quickly to prosperity.  The more government involvement you have, the lesser the degree of prosperity, until you wind up being forced down the road of fiat currencies straight to hyperinflation.  Freegold incorporates no new technology.  As such, it has been tried numerous times in the past, and has always failed, just like every fiat currency has failed within 60 years of adoption of full fully unbacked currency.  Indeed, those collapses must have been so fast, and so complete that they were never even recorded.

FOFOA is a smart cookie, but Freegold is BS.  Gold and silver (and platinum and palladium) are money.  Period.  Any attempt to divorce any portion of the role of money from said money will end in nothing but disaster.  You can't divorce them any more than you can divorce charge from a proton or electron, or mass from matter.  You just can't do it without a big boom of some sort, at the end of which, you will find things are back to the way they always were.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 15:38 | 1326184 DoChenRollingBearing
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Great dialogue guys.

+ $1530

or will that be + $55,000?

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 16:06 | 1326250 Shell Game
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I am no expert, but, it was my impression that Freegold is not a currency or monetary policy. It is more akin to an 'event' that normalizes gold to the paper debt central banks and governments have created over the last 100 years.  Subsequently, it paves the way for global gold standards, as Tm suggests.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 16:29 | 1326429 shortus cynicus
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Hyperinflation is also called as run away inflation. If people do not make savings in transaction money at all, so they have nothing to run away from. Any expansion of money quantity would be immediate visible as price increases giving prompt warning about government's policy.

In opposite case (current system), when transaction money is also used as saving money, any expansion of money quantity can easily vanish for longer period of time in savings accounts, including exchange reserves of foreign banks, then, during run away inflation, it come back into circulation all at the same time causing total lack of control.


Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:10 | 1326580 tmosley
tmosley's picture

So hyperinflation won't happen because it's already happening?  Come on.

Hyperinflation is caused by two things--printing of money, and by increasing the velocity of money.  The first is always present in practice, as governments always print money so they can get free stuff to bribe us with and to line their own pockets.  The second is caused by the very existence of the Freegold system, in that as soon as you get money, you run down to the money changer and buy gold with it, because you are afraid it won't be worth as much the next day.  Thing is, the money changer has to get rid of it too, because he also knows that he is losing purchasing power to the printers.  The result is an ever increasing amount of currency circulating ever faster and faster, and you have hyperinflation by DESIGN.  QED.

Now, rather than losing purchasing power by holding the transactional currency for any length of time (including the time it takes to get to the money changer), or trying to price goods in terms of hyperinflating fiat currency, people will realize that they hold gold, and others hold gold.  They realize they want gold, and everyone else wants gold (by definition in the Freegold system).  Thus, rather than supporting a class of money changers for no reason, they will simply trade goods and services for gold directly.  Hence, Freegold collapses into a form of gold standard.  QED.

This is a gold specie standard, and is the ABSOLUTE BEST monetary system ever used by mankind.  This can and has existed alongside a silver specie standard.  It can also exist alongside a platinum and/or palladium specie standard.  Hence the exceptionally long life of the Roman Empire (especially when you consider the shift from Rome to Constantinople).  Only the West, which overspent in an extreme manner saw economic collapse which lead to political collapse and conquest.  The East lasted another 1000+ years, until they too succumbed to government overspending.  Of course, if the people had not allowed their government to take charge of minting the coins, they never would have been debased, and we'd probably all be speaking Greek, flying around in spaceships and such.


Tue, 05/31/2011 - 18:48 | 1326869 Shell Game
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Nicely summarized, TM.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:04 | 1326557 Imminent Crucible
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"Freegold is BS"  I also tend to mistrust the Freegold concept because it sounds like a "have our cake and eat it, too" scheme, and those always have a hidden flaw.

That said, I think it would be vastly preferable to the present regime because it would provide a ready currency for saving, which means the majority of people can give up the fruitless pursuit of yield for their savings to compensate for the fact that their dollars are constantly eroded by the central bank.

FOA says that Freegold will prevent the ruinous accruals of debt that destroy the transactional currency, though I couldn't find the specific limiting mechanism--need to read much more of his ideas. If true, that would preclude the "big boom" you mention that always leads to the crackup and collapse. It is the debt that is the problem, because without the parabolic growth of debt there is no need for the CB to inflate the money supply.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 17:08 | 1326588 tmosley
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If he said that, then I really don't understand why he or his friend would still advocate it.  It's like saying nuclear war is fine and dandy as long as everyone owns a fallout shelter.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 23:41 | 1327559 Quaderratic Probing
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Hyper inflation and they did have gold and silver for money not paper...... no difference between the two in the end

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 19:09 | 1326933 Eternal Student
Eternal Student's picture

Sorry, but the statement "they started debasing and were wiped out by the Turks" is rather shallow and ignorant. The decline of both the halves of the Roman Empire is a lot more complex than this. The currency issue is certainly one part of it. But it is far, far from the only part. Or arguably even the most important part.

Even if you read the rather shallow and overly simplistic essay by Martin Armstrong, you might notice that the Western Empire had significant impacts from elsewhere. You won't get that from reading his essay. But the charts there point it out, and the issues are completely ignored, just to save the point he tries to make.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 16:25 | 1326395 Banjo
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Internet Tough Guy: Gold is an excellent indicator when linked to currency. This is the whole reason Nixon closed the Gold window because the French decided they wanted to cash in the excess US dollars with "real physical gold"

The point is gold is always floating relative to currency, you can print money in the trillions you can't dig gold up in the same vast quantity.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 12:48 | 1325696 lawrence1
lawrence1's picture

Perhaps the percentage of people buying PMs, not just the gold or silver price.  Wonder if there is historical information about the percentage of people abandoning a currency it takes to trigger hyperinflation? 

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 13:18 | 1325770 Irwin Fletcher
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Which people? I bet the majority of US citizens do not know that the dollar is not backed by gold.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 13:25 | 1325788 Whatta
Whatta's picture

I don't use the dollar, I use MasterCard. I am safe, right? LOL...

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 13:39 | 1325847 Irwin Fletcher
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Is it a gold card?

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:17 | 1325425 Hard1
Hard1's picture

We are in the equivalent period of 270 AD

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:30 | 1325466 baby_BLYTHE
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We are all the End of the World

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:43 | 1325495 DoChenRollingBearing
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Sure seems so doesn't it?  Of course I thought we were there under Jimmy Carter...

Yes, gold and commodities should be held by everyone.  As well as "preparations".

See my TEOTWAWKI article at my blog (as well as my Tinfoil Hat Brigade article too, for comic (?) relief).  Anyone interested send me a gmail promising you'll be nice, and I will direct you there.  100 ZH-ers already can view my blog at their leisure.  And how can 100 ZH-ers be wrong?



Martin Armstrong has covered this this history of Ancient Rome slowly sinking, then BANG!, hyperinflation.  Highly recommended, his knowledge of history and cycles is awesome.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 11:49 | 1325537 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

got a link to that Armstrong piece? I have read him in the past on ZH, seems pretty credible

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 12:22 | 1325641 baby_BLYTHE
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Tue, 05/31/2011 - 12:34 | 1325656 Rusty Shorts
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Jimmy Carter: Crisis of Confidence


 - well worth a listen.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 13:09 | 1325750 GetZeeGold
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A roar can be heard coming out of the Carter headquarters......we're number 2, we're number 2, we're number 2.

Things is lookin up for Jimmy.


Tue, 05/31/2011 - 13:51 | 1325904 Bob
Bob's picture

+2  LOL.

Tue, 05/31/2011 - 12:25 | 1325645 mr. mirbach
Tue, 05/31/2011 - 18:50 | 1326878 Rational Psycho
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What's your gmail address?

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