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China Central Bank Advisor Urges Increase In Official Gold And Silver Reserves

Tyler Durden's picture




 

And so the long anticipated incursion by the PBOC, whose holdings of gold are behind even those of GLD, begins. Bloomberg has just reported, that "China central bank adviser Xia Bin said the country should increase its gold and silver reserves, the Economic Information Daily reported today, citing an interview with Xia." But how can this be: after all China has trillions in USD-denominated reserves, and any indication that it believes these are based on a currency that may actually be impaired will be an act of Mutual Assured Destruction. Well, yes and no. China is merely taking the next defection step in what is already failed Nash equilibrium. The first? The Fed's gross monetization of all US debt. The observant ones will realize that Chinese holdings in November were lower than they were in June of 2009! Who has picked up the slack? Why the Federal Reserve of course. Simply said, the Fed is explicitly making China's creditor status increasingly less relevant. Zero Hedge has long been wondering how much longer China will take this direct defection in what previously had been a stable equilibrium balance in which China provides the US vendor financing, while the US imports China's crap. As the Criminal Reserve is increasingly taking away the leverage that China used to enjoy as Creditor numero uno, it is only a matter of time before China fires back. And it may have just done that.

More from Bloomberg:

China should encourage foreign companies to list in the yuan-denominated market, the report said, citing Xia. The nation should slow the overseas listings of Chinese companies, especially resources related, strategic and monopoly firms, the report said, citing Xia.

For now this is still merely sabre ratling. However, one day soon, a report will come out confirming that the PBOC has purchased anywhere between 10 and 100 tonnes of gold (which it is rumored to be doing now in the form of stealth accumulation). That's when things for the gold shorts, especially those whose massive position shorts have been grandfathered by the C(riminal)FTC, will get ugly.

 

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Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:16 | 919065 Rahm
Rahm's picture

Buy the f-ing duck sauce!

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:40 | 919110 treasurefish
treasurefish's picture

Duck sauce does you no good without guns, ammo, and ducks.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:58 | 919282 Fish Gone Bad
Fish Gone Bad's picture

The first one out of the money pool wins!!

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 04:35 | 919584 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

FOFOA supporters have to change their pants before posting here. So much for that only gold can be money whopper now you have China, AKA daddy of both US and Europe, showing their hand a little bit. Better pay attention.

The other day I was at FOFOA's blog watching him shooting about gold to silver ratio of 1 : 2000, "only speculators buy silver" and so on I was wondering if this guy ever read news at all. The very fact China imported 110 millin Oz of Ag last year is like firing 110 million bullets at that nonsense and blowing as many holes along the way. You bet they'd be glad to sit on the buy side if you are willing sell any more silver.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 06:42 | 919637 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

I'm not so sure.

From my reading of FOFOA and the general reaction his comments on silver got, it seems his treatise is broadly misunderstood.  To my mind, silver is, in fact, an investment, and it will eventually bubble out, albeit at a higher valuation than currently.

Yes, it has been and can be money, but it isn't gold.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 09:15 | 919793 tmosley
tmosley's picture

He fundamentally misunderstands money, so it is not surprising that he fails to recognize that silver is money that has been made rare from industrial usage.  His misunderstanding stems from the artificial barrier he has placed between use of currency as savings and as a medium of transaction.  He thinks you can somehow use unbacked paper money for transaction, but not for savings, and that that won't cause any sort of problem, which is simply nuts.  It's like trying to separate wetness from water.  You can't flat a boat on pieces of paper that say "wet" on them.  Similarly, any system where governments are free to print the transactional currency will collapse into hyperinflation almost immediately, because you have inherently destroyed any concept of value of the currency, and monetary velocity goes to unity as everyone takes the currency and buys gold right away since it is losing value so quickly.  Since everyone has gold (as savings), and everyone wants and accepts gold for their fast depreciating fiat, there is nothing to stop them from just dumping the paper money and trading in gold directly. "Freegold" is at best a transition state between a fiat currency and a gold standard (whether de facto or official).  

Because he doesn't understand this simple fact about money, he doesn't understand that the value of money is a function of the goods and services available at market and money supply.  Just like an increasing population leads to more goods and services being available at market, and thus price deflation in terms of gold, silver has the added deflationary factor of decreasing supply.  Sure, you will rarely see long term contracts being written in terms of silver, that is a function purely of it's upward price instability.  Once the price rises to an amount that forces silver recycling to the extent that an equilibrium is reached between mining production and garbage dump deposition, then you will get contracts being written in terms of silver.  

You will notice that physical sales of silver far exceed physical sales of gold.  This is Gresham's Law in action.  Silver is money, but it is extremely undervalued.  It won't circulate until the price rises.  Gold circulates in some places now (Vietnam, for example), but only at a significant premium to current prices.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 12:02 | 920435 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Hey T.

Like I said, he was broadly misunderstood.

Silver is money, but not a store of wealth.  There's too much of it.

That's the gist.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 13:47 | 920905 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

T was exactly right. FOFOA biggest mistake is regurgitating what FOA fed him w/o really thinking through why silver has been money throughout thousands years of history.

Money has to be having value of own, divisible, durable, stable, precious, availabe and backed up by production. It's those qualities making both gold and silver money rather than some bizaar theories cooked by certain bankers.

Money by its nature has to be store of wealth, which is why you use precious metal as money. This notion of "too much of it" shows that you don't know about silver fundamentals very well.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:04 | 919161 TeMpTeK
TeMpTeK's picture

Sree dolla estra for derivery

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:38 | 919352 spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

"I make a special won ton soup for you"

 

 8)

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:52 | 919378 bankrupt JPM bu...
bankrupt JPM buy silver's picture

Find more info and 'da bears' on my blog and some updates on the silver trade....

http://silvergoldsilver.blogspot.com/

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:20 | 919071 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

Chinese would love to buy gold cheaper than $1300

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:42 | 919112 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

As would I.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:20 | 919072 NOTW777
NOTW777's picture

really. since when is PBOC transparent or honest?  buying gold all along?

announcements are jokes

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:27 | 919074 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture
China Central Bank Advisor Urges Increase In Official Gold Reserves

correction: Gold AND Silver Reserves

"China central bank adviser Xia Bin said the country should increase its gold and silver reserves, the Economic Information Daily reported today, citing an interview with Xia."


(thanks dewd)

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:22 | 919077 SlipStitchPass
SlipStitchPass's picture

Called a larger metals dealer in maryland on Friday. He said that someone had walked in that morning and bought his supply of 100oz silver bars. He had 185 in the safe. Told me to call on Monday and see if anything came in.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:37 | 919237 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Middle Eastern embassy staff or their agent?

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:54 | 919273 SlipStitchPass
SlipStitchPass's picture

More than likley one of the many Americans with 500K+ in FRNs setting around who are st arting to say "Oh shit I'd better do somthing to protect my wealth". Consider the reverse leverage that buying physical silver has on the paper market. There is very little Silver around to cover this type of demand.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:08 | 919301 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

interesting that your supposed subject, with 500k in ben-bux would be buying silver, not gold, hmmm. . .

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 06:59 | 919644 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Because gold is even harder to get?

YMMV (OC)

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 09:18 | 919800 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No.  This is Gresham's Law being applied.  People recognize that silver is undervalued, so they hoard it.  They recognize that gold supply is only increasing, but that silver is being consumed twice as fast as it is produced, and that it makes no sense for silver to even be correlated with gold at this point.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 12:06 | 920450 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Yes, but for what period of time?

Silver will have its day in the Sun, but Sun's light shines golden.  Eventually silver will recede back into the shadows of Moon light.

This is what you're missing.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:22 | 919327 Campagnolo
Campagnolo's picture

Just watch at Tulving's silver supply. They say they have only 500,000 oz. in stock. Since Tulving sell orders over 500oz it is only 1000 orders to run out of silver. Considering as tulving as one of the big metal dealer in the US.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:03 | 919397 walcott
walcott's picture

Campagnolo just checked Tulving's site everything sold out or so it says here

http://www.tulving.com/New%20Pages/buying_bullion_coins.html

 

 

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:59 | 919473 RmcAZ
RmcAZ's picture

http://www.tulving.com/goldbull.html

?

Looks like lots in stock to me.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 03:45 | 919556 walcott
walcott's picture

oh ok got it thnx!

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 02:12 | 919486 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture

Nope, try this page:  http://tulving.com/goldbull.html

Gold first, then some more ugly HTML, then Silver, a little more ugly HTML, then Platinum and Palladium.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:23 | 919079 DoctoRx
DoctoRx's picture

PS Disagree w TD here.  IMHO China simply wants less exposure to the USD.  The Prez wants to spread the wealth by diluting the savings of those not named Lloyd etc. who have savings, which Gentle Ben is happy to accommodate.  Thus Team Fed buys whatever the ROW doesn't.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:33 | 919101 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

President Donald Trump will set China straight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbdi7YG7unE

 

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 07:03 | 919647 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

Donald Trump is like the Chuck Norris of the financial world.

Do not fuck with Donald Trump, or else he will fire you.

I am Chumbawamba.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 08:13 | 919683 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

That Fat Vain Nero !!! - he can go fuck himself , Vandalising Scottish landscapes for another fucking golf course - enough with these fuckers - they make me fucking sick.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=E73RM9gS7bU

I am Dork

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:23 | 919080 UninterestedObserver
UninterestedObserver's picture

But you can't eat gold or silver.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:46 | 919120 asdasmos
asdasmos's picture

And you can garnish food with dollar confetti.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:01 | 919130 Rahm
Rahm's picture

You can get it on the way out; FRN=TP

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:57 | 919145 pan-the-ist
pan-the-ist's picture

But you can eat taco bell. 88% beef! 

Been thinking about buying a taco tommorow to see how much different they will taste now that they're forced to remove the fillers.

They'll be out of business before long if they have to maintain it.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:49 | 919371 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Wow, it's been years since I've heard anybody mention "taste" and "Taco Bell" in the same sentence.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 02:17 | 919491 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

i remember their run for the toilet campaign well...or was that border?

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:25 | 919082 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture


Davos 2010: Chinese central banker Zhu Min warns of new Asian crisis China's deputy central bank chief Zhu Min warned that tighter US monetary policy could spark a sudden outflow of capital from emerging markets, evoking the 1990s Asian financial crisis.

 

A rapid withdrawal of funds would not only cause volatility in the currency exchange markets, but could also generate currency moves similar to those during the Asian crisis of over a decade ago.

"Capital flows - it's a real risk this year for the economy," Zhu Min told participants at the World Economic Forum's annual meeting in Davos.

Mr Zhu noted that investors are increasingly borrowing the cheap US dollar, and investing the borrowed funds in emerging markets, where interest rates are higher, and therefore generating a better return than saving in the dollars.

This phenomenon called carry trade in the US dollar is a "massive issue today," said Mr Zhu.

"It's bigger than the Japanese yen carry trade 12 years ago," he said.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk

 

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:02 | 919289 tickhound
tickhound's picture

And who doesn't talk their book in the face of a poor investment...

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:01 | 919402 trav7777
trav7777's picture

sound rike China WANT cheaper dorrah

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 06:54 | 919642 JonNadler
JonNadler's picture

Appaling Smell

How does your post relate to bashing gold?

Stick to your job of scaring goldbugs away from gold or go away

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:25 | 919084 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Huh? A dollar hedge on YUAN revaluation? Oh wait the reserve currency thing. Now I got it. Jeese.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:27 | 919090 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

A small last note. Don't get head faked on xag and xau. I wouldn't touch gold above 1297.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:36 | 919094 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Oh snap, is China officially buying silver?

Not a lot of silver out there, guys.

I counted at least 360K toz of silver on APMEX.  That's less than $10 million worth. If China starts buying AT ALL, this is likely to blow up immediately.

I'm talking $200 a troy oz in weeks, here.  Of course, it could just be bluster.  They may wait to accumulate more gold before blowing up the silver market.  Who knows?

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:55 | 919138 bronzie
bronzie's picture

"is China officially buying silver?"

or do they just stop the export of same - then accumulate the production from their own mines as well as the output from smelting foreign ores

remember that they accumulated about 4 or 500 tons of gold without telling the world until it was a done deal

also remember that China is number one producer of gold at this point and third largest producer of silver - they can do some major accumulation just by keeping their own output - they don't have to actively buy on the open market

 

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:59 | 919148 tmosley
tmosley's picture

They are already doing all of that.  They went from being the worlds largest exporter of silver a couple of years ago, to being one of the largest importers.  That was on private demand alone.  

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:03 | 919404 trav7777
trav7777's picture

huh?  China doesn't buy from fkin Apmex, dude.

the retail end of things is runt hog on this trough.

China could negotiate with silver miners if they want silver.  There are 750Mtoz per year out there, no shortage

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:31 | 919438 bobert
bobert's picture

How many ounces is that per person (just the Chinese)?

 

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 09:28 | 919831 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's great, except that would mean that there wouldn't be any for anyone else.

Once again, you utterly fail because you ONLY look at the production side of the equation, as if stockpiles and demand didn't matter.

Production is 710 Mtoz per year: http://www.silverinstitute.org/production.php

Demand is 900 Mtoz per year: http://www.silverinstitute.org/supply_demand.php

Tell me, what is 710,000,000 minus 900,000,000? 

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 09:55 | 919902 bobert
bobert's picture

And if you can answer that you can continue posting........

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:32 | 919099 Misean
Misean's picture

Silver and Gold Bitchez?

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:45 | 919119 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture
HUANG JIN SAN BAMEN!
Mon, 01/31/2011 - 07:09 | 919648 chumbawamba
chumbawamba's picture

:)

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:33 | 919100 mee-mee-mee
mee-mee-mee's picture

Hu buys AU

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:42 | 919113 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Do Chinese bankers send Blythe thank you cards?

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:47 | 919124 Misean
Misean's picture

Sun Tzu would recommend it.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 07:02 | 919646 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Fiat currency bitchezzz!

Most ignorant people believe paper is money -- nothing is farther from the truth.

May the dollar, euro and sterling be used as wallpaper.

-Cash is Trash

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:43 | 919115 ipud
ipud's picture

but Karl Denninger still won't touch it

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCwWfSYBwOQ

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:52 | 919135 yabyum
yabyum's picture

^^lmfao ;) +++

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:41 | 919245 Monetary Lapse ...
Monetary Lapse of Reason's picture

Yo,  Pud from the Cape?  Nice work there old boy!  Denninger is still one hell of an investigative reporter....  he just doesn't understand the monetary metals. 

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:03 | 919295 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

You reminded me. Pink Floyd. That is the only lapse of reason in my book. Good work!

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:44 | 919116 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

Ok, I know for a fact that such info will make gold and silver opening prices drop like a lead weight off of a cliff come Monday morning , at the open....

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:52 | 919133 merehuman
merehuman's picture

as usual..

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:47 | 919121 bronzie
bronzie's picture

what is the current status of China's smelting operation for silver

for some number of years massive amounts of silver was sent to China to be smelted because China didn't have the environmental concerns that other nations did (smelting is a dirty operation)

China was often listed as a significant exporter of silver but much of the exported silver came from the smelting of foreign ore

China can accumulate silver by stopping exports of the foreign smelting operation and also by buying up the production from their own mines

anybody got numbers?

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:01 | 919153 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Check the first table: http://runredhot.com/?p=1807

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:29 | 919217 bronzie
bronzie's picture

thanks for the link

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:55 | 919137 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

The Chinese are getting pissed about fed quantitative easing. They don't want to see gold and silver fall too much or it means the pressure is off the fed.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 22:57 | 919143 iatrosgk
iatrosgk's picture

My wild guess is that China has been silently accumulating gold and silver. Whenever there are F***king dips, China just mop up all the cheap gold and silver, thanks to COMEX. I can still buy .999 silver bars easily in Hong Kong, with a spread/ premimium of 6%+. Don't know if the situation will change after Chinese New Year.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:57 | 919279 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Lots of fake stuff over there, so be my guest.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 03:22 | 919534 iatrosgk
iatrosgk's picture

I buy at a reputable shop, which is listed at the Chinese Gold and Silver Exchange Society. The company is one of the accredited refineries for 99 gold in Hong Kong. I feel it is much safer than getting silver from Kitco. By the way, I cannot get more silver bar today from the shop. I will ask a few days later.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:09 | 919156 gwar5
gwar5's picture

The Chinese look here like they are getting serious about a gold standard, at least on the surface

Caveat is that PBOC has already bought into a Rothschilds bank (LCFR), and signed onto the Davos' proposal

 

FT.com / Financials - BoC to buy stake in LCF Rothschild

 

Gamesmanship or head fake? They're already co-mingled. Fake wrangling similar to the creation of the Federal Reserve in 1913?

Huge concessions for future natural resources have already been given to the Chinese, that's what they want.

If China just wanted to crush Western central banks they could announce they're buyers of PMs tomorrow on the open market and then do it.

But I hope they're serious about this. It's pathetic I even find myself rooting for the communist Chinese to save me from our own central bank squids. The world is nuts.

 

 

 

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:11 | 919307 zaknick
zaknick's picture

FT.com / Financials - BoC to buy stake in LCF Rothschild BoC to buy stake in LCF Rothschild. By Scheherazade Daneshkhu and Sundeep Tucker . Published: September 18 2008 12:48 | Last … www.ft.com/cms/s/0/816f5f04-857... - Options FT.com / Companies / Banks - Beijing caution sinks BoC's French ... 2 Apr 2009 … Bank of China's plan to buy a stake in a French private … www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0c13a87a-1f4... - Options

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:25 | 919333 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

for those who choose not to pay subscription to such "news" as Financial Times, these links are blocked. . . just a heads up.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:11 | 919308 zaknick
zaknick's picture

FT.com / Financials - BoC to buy stake in LCF Rothschild BoC to buy stake in LCF Rothschild. By Scheherazade Daneshkhu and Sundeep Tucker . Published: September 18 2008 12:48 | Last … www.ft.com/cms/s/0/816f5f04-857... - Options FT.com / Companies / Banks - Beijing caution sinks BoC's French ... 2 Apr 2009 … Bank of China's plan to buy a stake in a French private … www.ft.com/cms/s/0/0c13a87a-1f4... - Options

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:21 | 919323 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

when one controls phenomenal amounts of money/resource, the mind moves beyond the imaginary, move-able boundary of nationstates, which are merely there to keep the consumer/citizens pastured - "they" are global, and care not for "state loyalty". . .

oh, and it's the Chinese Year of the White Metal Rabbit. . . mmmHmm!

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:33 | 919445 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

It's a head fake. I love the FT. See ya in London. Buy the way! I'm on your side.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:14 | 919181 fellatio is not...
fellatio is not fattening's picture

QUESTION>>>PLZ HELP>>>

 

EBAY has a $1000 face, 55 lb. bag of junk silver coins on auction, I calculated as follows...55lbs=880 oz @ $28 p/oz= $24,640 x .90 (silver content) = $22,176 value.  Am I correct/wrong, is it worth buying?   Thanks for the help to those more knowledgable than I

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:16 | 919188 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Check other sellers, like apmex and tulving.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:17 | 919191 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

TROY OUNCE. Look it up and recalculate.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:10 | 919305 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

1 toz of xau = roughly 31 grams. 1 pennyweight = 20 penny weight. The standard measure of gram vs calculation is 29. Roughly.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:21 | 919201 zenblaster
zenblaster's picture

Compare prices for bag against online quote at ColoradoGold.com during market hours on their silver page.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:31 | 919220 Eric The Red
Eric The Red's picture

Industry standard is 715 troy ounces of silver in a $1000 bag.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:22 | 919325 A_MacLaren
A_MacLaren's picture

+715  That's the standard for 90% junk.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:32 | 919228 bronzie
bronzie's picture

I always use 715 oz as contents of a $1000 bag

"When minted, a $1000 face value bag contained 723.4 ounces of silver. Due to wear, however, a bag of circulated coins yields approximately 715 ounces"

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:38 | 919239 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I was just about to edit my reply the same that the ounces are more like 720 oz.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:39 | 919241 fellatio is not...
fellatio is not fattening's picture

THX, you are correct, seller listed as 715 oz.  so 715 x $28 x .90 = $18018   THANK you all for input, greatly appreciated

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:37 | 919236 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Yes they are worth buying but you don't have to buy the $1000 bag you can buy just a few $100 bags if you aren't all that confident.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:56 | 919388 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

There's a way handy calculator here that I have been known to consult from time to time:

http://www.coinflation.com/coins/silver_coin_calculator.html

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:22 | 919426 bobert
bobert's picture

Interesting calculations by my fellow ZH's but why not just use the current melt rate for the face value of silver denominated coins = 20.2??? i.e., $100 face value = $2020.00, $1000.00 face value = $20,200.00 etc. I think you are safe buying smaller quanities from credible e-bay sellers but would likely seek out a larger silver seller for the quantity you are after.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 08:11 | 919682 Croesus
Croesus's picture

Weight's a little high on that:

$1000 bags usually weigh between 720-773 troy ounces, depending on what the coins are, and what condition they're in. Ex: Morgan dollars (0.77344/oz. pure) x 1,000 = 773.44 oz. if all coins are in decent condition. Roosevelt dimes (0.0723/oz. pure) x 10,000 = 723 oz.

At 55 lbs. weight (probably in avdp. ounces), you could convert it to troy (multiply by 0.914458333), which equals: 804.7233, then multiply that by .90 = 724.25 ounces troy

The ebay auction is probably for a bag of dimes, right?

At spot right now ($27.73), melt value would be around $20,080.00.

I can't tell if you if it's worth buying, without knowing how much the seller wants for it, but with demand being what it is, you can expect to pay a premium for it.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:17 | 919189 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

 Dr. Gonzo has been advising his family and friends to increase gold and silver holdings for 10 years. Xia Bin has spied on my glorious strategy to become rich and has given it the to PBOC!

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:22 | 919203 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

My dealer has plenty of silver: http://goo.gl/rxkGm

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:24 | 919206 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Fish tacos?

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:38 | 919240 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

You have to ask about the silver.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:05 | 919296 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

*winks* while gently tapping side of nose. . .

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:23 | 919330 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Half way through his Nobel laureate speech, Paul Krugman took a personal moment to reflect on his teaching days,

"You may have noticed I touch my nose...it is an old thing I picked up teaching."

He did it every time he lied.  It is an astonishing 44 minutes.

The Rise of Firms:

http://nobelprize.org/mediaplayer/index.php?id=1072

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:35 | 919448 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Yes a mighty fine dish indeed! Smart.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:29 | 919216 10kby2k
10kby2k's picture

I thought smith and wesson was the reserve currency.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:41 | 919244 JLee2027
Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:33 | 919229 JLee2027
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Problems just seem to be increasing all over. Perhaps the Bernank needs a tune up or oil change.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:37 | 919234 tjfxh
tjfxh's picture

Duh. That's what happens when you peg. What is China complaining about. Would it rather tariffs or some other form of protectionism. Do they expect the US to roll over for mercantilism? Somebody tell them that there are consequences to action.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:55 | 919275 Misean
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Hi kettle! Have you met pot?

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:47 | 919258 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

Should we buy before or after the co-mex report tomorrow ?????????????

End

"More than 30,000 options were exercised yesterday with even out-of-money options being exercised of strikes at $1335, $1340 and $1345. This is a sign of investors wanting to stand for delivery. The large open interest which is still open in FEB was no doubt the reason for the vicious attack today (the reason why silver suffered relatively little by comparison). Tomorrow is the last trading day before First Notice day so it will be an interesting day and will give an indication of the FEB gold delivery problem for the cartel"

"Monday will be a very important day for gold as we await the number of gold oz that will stand.  There may be a squeeze as many seek the precious metal"

End

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/

We were 2 bits away from $100 oil a few minutes ago !

http://www.usagold.com/live.html

Could the dow futures go green after being down -90 2 hrs ago ?>

http://www.sgxniftydowfutureslive.com/index_files/DOWFUTURES.htm

Good luck tomorrow

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:50 | 919262 Math Man
Math Man's picture

The Chinese won't buy any gold at these levels.

They were quite proud that they didn't stock their strategic oil reserves above $70/barrel.

They're waiting for the crash.  And it's coming soon.

 

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:53 | 919271 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I guess you were sick in 2008.  Crash happened.  It's not likely to happen again.  The sham that is international fiat currency has been laid bare for all to see.  Major actors are in a Mexican standoff, slowly making their way for the exits.

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:51 | 919265 ipud
ipud's picture

I'm not him, ML - I'm just a fan of his rants!

Sun, 01/30/2011 - 23:58 | 919283 Misean
Misean's picture

Someone burped at the open of PM's in Asia...

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:03 | 919293 lunaticfringe
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China has huge silver reserves of their own. Have never been able to get a line on what they produce or what they hold. A complete mystery. Duck sauce. Chop chop.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:16 | 919316 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I really enjoy the posts. You people are awesome. You ALL make me loose sleep. I would not trade tis interaction for the WORLD. Good Work my Friends!

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:49 | 919361 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

And the Dow futures go "GREEN" !!!

Man what a pump from negative -90 3 hrs ago !

http://www.sgxniftydowfutureslive.com/index_files/DOWFUTURES.htm

 

 

 

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 00:47 | 919368 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Why can't the ten crack 82 on a consistant decending level? Because the exporters are biding against themselves. 82-85 is the range. USD/JPY

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 08:16 | 919686 anvILL
anvILL's picture

Simply looking at the charts, it seems more like a support created by the intervention by the BOJ to me.
Japanese exporters don't like trading forex beyond regular hedging.
They would rather lobby and have the government pressure the BOJ to intervene.

Also, the SMA that Yahoo Japan shows by default is the rather unusual 26 week moving average, which happens to be acting as a very nice resistance for some mysterious (OK, lets call it "technical" because we're traders) reason.
http://stocks.finance.yahoo.co.jp/stocks/chart/?code=USDJPY=X

Therefore, in my opinion, we would need some breakout to get to 85 and the range is much lower.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 02:50 | 919442 savagegoose
savagegoose's picture

they could announce they'll buy oil for gold, and see how many loyal vendors hang around for fiat payments!

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:35 | 919446 user2011
user2011's picture

Marketwatch.com just flashed a news about China allow foreign currency swap starting March 1st.   Won't that actually hurt the price for the precious metal ?   People will buy yuan instead of precious metal.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 01:44 | 919454 bobert
bobert's picture

I'll consider buying the yuan only after they put some other face on the hundred note.

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 06:36 | 919631 celticgold
celticgold's picture

OT but then again... Chinese women from Shandong prov are THE hottest , tallish ,slim and ball achingly beautiful

Mon, 01/31/2011 - 06:39 | 919634 celticgold
celticgold's picture

OT but then again... Chinese women from Shandong prov are THE hottest , tallish ,slim and ball achingly beautiful

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