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not sure why you guys seem so focused on problems with China. US has totally outmaneuvered China diplomatically in last week, and all hysteria aside China is going to have to take it; heavy breathing just expected posturing. US may be weaker but it is not weak, and China and its neighbors in Asia all know this. http://twitter.com/niubi
Found this on Yazoo, the truth never spoken better:
If you cross the North Korean border illegally you get 12 years hard labor. If you cross the Iranian border illegally you are detained indefinitely. If you cross the Afghan border illegally, you get shot. If you cross the Saudi Arabian border illegally you will be jailed. If you cross the Chinese border illegally you may never be heard from again. If you cross the Venezuelan border illegally you will be branded a spy and your fate will be sealed. If you cross the Mexican borders illegally you will jailed for two years. If you cross the Cuban border illegally you will be thrown into political prison to rot.
If you cross the United States border illegally you get: 1 - A job 2 - A driver's license 3 - A Social Security card 4 - Welfare 5 - Food stamps 6 - Credit cards 7 - Subsidized rent or a loan to buy a house 8 - Free education 9 - Free health care 10 - A lobbyist in Washington 11 - Billions of dollars in public documents printed in your language 12 - Millions of servicemen and women who are willing to - and do - die for your right to the ways and means of our cons----ution 13 - And the right to carry the flag of your country - the one you walked out on - while you call America racist and protest that you don't get enough respect.
Don't be silly. Undocumented workers in the US do not have some utopian life.
Just because someone typed it on the interwebz doesn't mean it's true.
That's pretty relative considering where they came from.
Damn sure IS Utopia compared to where they all risk their lives to get here from, you damn twinkie-brain!
What the F@ck does this have to do with Chinese and US Relations?
Like kids on the school yard.
Exactly. Except they have power over us.
"It has been a while since political bickering over who can piss the farthest was an issue of global concern."
Like 45 nanoseconds.
As in: WE are the BIGGEST creditor Nation and OURS is the perogative to rate YOUR worthiness.
And what follows (above) is just a beautiful step-up after the ROW powers crumbled and grasped (for their pen) and missed.
No one would "like" to see the rocky relations?
But that is where we are going! Why else would we be all lined up about Iran getting ready to pull the plug?
Remember WWIII is neigh!
The relentless rise in the Yen during Asian trading hours in the past week or two - raises a question. Who?
Seems to me the chinese and allocating some of their dollar reserve to Yen? Just a wild hypothesis? any thoughts?
Asia is currently the most punch drunk,bubblicious region. property bubbles will do that. A big enough property bubble tends to convince people that they will be perpetually wealthy, no need to work, they have some special magic etc etc. ( silicon valley circa 1999 AD)
Why don't they send their aircraft carrier battle groups somewhere close to our waters? A nation doesn't just jerk off and say it wants to be a global superpower.
Holding trillions of paper financial assets issued by your strategic rival - while depending on your strategic rival to ship vast quatities of corn, soybeans etc.- is not a very clever strategy - is it?
The US needs China because.....? What we are short of ultra cheap manual labor? Just move on to bangladesh or latin america - ultra cheap manual labor is not a commodity in short supply.
Franky - the only thing the US needs from outside its borders in - Oil. And China is not a supplier. So - do we care?
as far as I can see, China only provides us with three items.
1) cheap labor
2) pollution dumping ground
3) cheap capital
China needs America more than America needs China.
what do you think would happen if the Chinese went "Fuck you yanks" and dumped all your debt and bought Gold & oil with it?
we'd see who needs who more then.
the arrogance of bankrupt drunks never ceases to amaze me.
You really think a huge chuck of our national debt?
they only hold somewhere around 14%. here is the fact:
Greenspan once said there would be no buyer if they decided to dump.
That 14% number seems correct, as you can cannot seriously count the FED or State and Local Governments as real "creditors."
But reader2010, aren't you contradicting yourself here:If the Chinese only own 14% of our debt (and not more), shouldn't it be relatively easy to dump their holdings?
Well, first oil and gold would skyrocket, China would have to find how to feed its unemployed mobs with oil, gold and worthless paper.
The only reason China holds so much U.S. debt is the recycling of the price paid for all the worthless crap dumped on to the U.S. consumer through Chinese Wallmart.
Now go back to licking your balls on the couch.
what do you think would happen if the Chinese dumped all their debt and bought Gold & oil with it?
The price of gold and oil would increase and the value of the bonds would decrease; the chinese would only get cents on the dollar for their holdings of bonds. Not a good move so i would not look for it. Besides, they have more leverage over the usa as a creditor.
the usa would definately care if china buys ALL of the oil
...and CNC mills, screw machines, EDM machines, lathes, steel, copper, rubber, trauma medicine, lithium, etc.
However, you need to change, "would definately care if," to, "should care that."
You forgot the most important thing the US imports from China - deflation.
Without China, the US will be in a stagflationary environment. Oh wait.... nevermind.
Without China, the U.S. would have manufacturing jobs yielding high quality products that would last longer than the time it takes to pull the wrapper off.
The lowest purchase price per item is not the lowest price over time.
China makes crap products and the U.S. consumer is ripped off.
I posit the U.S. consumer has lived and is living through hyper-inflation for having to repeatedly purchase products that have no lasting value.
The fact that you have to purchase, again and again, lets say a "Chinese tarp" that won't even last a year, means we are living through hyper inflation.
That you must repeatedly purchase an item, over and over, means you are paying twice, three times, or even 10 times more than what it appears to be.
And don't forget the cost of fuel to return to the store, the cost of having to repeatly replace the item, and the lost American productivity when you ought to be doing something else.
Not that I am against better relations with China, but to be "junked" for expressing your view that perhaps China isn't really in the drivers seat, shows how even ZH readers can have blinders on.
Come to think of it..., maybe it would be just what the Doctor ordered, let them openly dump the dollar, and we finally rip off the bandaid to let the real heeling begin.
I beg your pardon, to which ZHer are you referring?
China's buying of US paper is the tribute they pay for access to 1st world markets.
The US is generally considered an economic superpower because inter-alia we did invented/commercialized the following:
-packaged foods, nice toilet paper
The China is now deemed to be the up and coming superpower because they invented/commercialized: ( please fill in the blank space below:
overtook Thailand as sex tourism destination
fine dining with endangered species
coal mine safety
Intensive Mandarin for Tibetans
organic erectile dysfunction supplements (tiger balls, bear claws, etc)
invented no party democracy
perfected concept of nation as giant noodle
...Reverse engineering and intellectual theft...
Zippity dooda, Zippity day.... (blank filled in)
The China of today, exists because:
1. the Chinese Communist Fascists need(ed) to hang on to power at any cost, so enslaving their worker bees (yeah, you're right, they already were enslaved)
2. American (purported) multinationals were at the ready to prostrate themselves to transfer technology to the commie/fascists to gain short term profits. Long term these corporate idiots are destroying their own base and country of origin. Even GE's Immelt was whining about how the commie/fascists didn't play fair.
BINGO! Nobody says it but China's power is solely due to the greed of US corporations who saw nothing but money to be made in china from slave wages never realizing that the Chinese were only doing it to suck their technology and knowledge dry then kick them out with no repatriated profits.
Maybe they could trade their Treasurys for a few gun boats?
living here i really get the feeling the PLA is just itching for a fight. They really want to bring it on. Too many years of believing their own brainwashing to turn back now.
The US fought multiple direct and indirect wars against China. Millions of Chinese were killed. The US backed the Japanese invasion and occupation of Manchuria. The US backed the occupation of major Chinese cities by Britain and the Dutch. The US is now surrounding China with military bases and attacking it's suppliers like Iran, Burma, North Korea, Sudan, Venezuela ..etc.
So in your opinion the Chinese should not be pissed off that they know there will be a future conflict with the US.
The U.S. backed the Japanese invasion of Manuchuria ?? Maybe you ought to look up the facts.
In the 1930's and 1940's the U.S. and China worked together under the umbrella of the "enemy of my enemy is my friend". Maybe you could check on the brave American pilots that flew weapons into China.
And don't forget all the planes and weapons flown through Alaska to the USSR.
Britain and the Europeans were in China centuries before U.S. foreign policy meant much of anything.
From my vantagepoint afar, they seem all in on this. I just wonder what triggers and thresholds that their top leaders have identified as when to move.
My sense is that they may need to move sooner rather than later, if the information about their property bubble is true, as well as their ecological damage.
It is virtually always the ecological truth that disintegrates the complexity of centralized empires and cultures. As China's environment worsens, faster, I hate to say, but my hope is that this knocks them back about 100 years.
If these stories are any indication, we're in good shape. A "visionary" project, funded by the powers that be in China, to demonstrate its transformation into the world's foremost ecologically sustainable country. Not so much.
The only think I really like about the chinese government is how they deal with government officials who break the law...And there's no lengthy time on death row waiting out the appeals process either.....We could take a lesson from them on that front.
MISSION STATUS UPDATE 5:
"Hey,Sgt.Tyler they want us to surrender sir"
"What do'ya think Serg"
"Ok,here's the plan men,now listen carefully"
"I want you all to lay down your arms"
"What the F'***.....Shit,we gonna be sitting ducks..screw that Serg....."
"Corporal,hand me that(Made in China) megaphone and hook it up to the loudspeakers"
"What you gonna do now Sgt.?.........."
"HEY....HEY.......COMMUNISTS, 'AR YOU LISTENING YOU BASTARDS......I DECLARE ALL USTreasuries WORTHLESS,IRREEDMABLE,NO GOOD PAPER PROMISIN',ASS-WIPING PEICES OF SHIT"
"Holy shit, what the f*** did you do that for sir, now ya really pissed 'em off Serg"
"GET THE F*** OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!!!!"
And as the megaphone crumbled in Sargeant Tyler's hand a bright and devious idea crossed his mind.
Knowing that the PLA had "made in China" weapons...
United States needs both wisdom and determination
United States needs both wisdom and determination
HA HA HA -- oops. I wet 'em!
And now for something completely different...
The US has been following a decades old plan to surround China and Russia. The goal is to steal Russia's resources and deprive China of access to it's supply lines. With these bases the US also plans on limiting the growth of India, Indonesia and all countries with large populations. The plan is dependent on the help of western EU countries like Germany, Britain, France..etc and the new eastern EU members. The deformation of NATO's and the EU's charters to allow using financial and military means to achieve these goals is also critical.
If the west cannot control the major sources of energy and minerals in the world via sanctions, bribery, coups, funding insurgencies in countries like Venezuela, China, Sudan, Iran ..etc it will be forced to use direct military action either invading the sources of commodities or cutting supply lines. Welcome to a redux of the West's colonial experiment in the 1800's.
Look for cracks in the unity needed to achieve these goals. Germany cutting energy deals with Russia. The ex-Soviet republics being pulled back into Moscows orbit. China cutting energy deals with Iran.
Interesting viewpoint. I don't doubt that China is dangerous to have as a foe and is intent on making its mark globally. I also don't doubt that the US and the other western countries may have plans similar to the ones you outlined.
Which is why I am glad, to a certain extent, that China is around and getting stronger. The world needs more balance, the west has had it too good for too long and they need to accept and deal with a more equal world. This would be better for the world as a whole and could and should engender a more peaceful and cooperative environment.
Unless, of course, the west tries to assert itself again as the dominant power and starts pushing buttons, which it no doubt will. It has been on top for a while and won't give up easily.
However, you can't stop the way things are going and if the East is smart, they will stick together and assert themselves sensibly.
Ultimately, the best outcome is a more egalitarian global climate and if China needs to smack the US down once in a while to get there, it may not be such a bad thing.
Jeezo, Rolo...., put some freaking pants on, would you! That was enough to make one want to puke.
Don't get the pants reference or why you would want to puke - but then I am in the UK so the US "humo(u)r" may be passing me by.
Keep it real...aight?
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