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China Detects Radiation Over Southeast Coastal Areas As Asahi Reports Of Holes In Reactor Pressure Vessels 1, 2 And 3
Radiation damage control now shifts over to the granddaddy of all free media China, where Xinhua has just reported a "tiny amount of radioactive material in the air over the nation's southeastern coastal areas" has been detected. But not to worry: just like in Japan and everywhere else in the world, this radiation is of the special "Ann Coulter" variety which actually boosts one's natural healthy glow and facilitates a prompt chromosome doubling courtesy of supposedly uber-benign mutation, and after all: more is better, so surely 92 chromosomes is much better than just 46 diploid pairs: "Xinhua quoted China's Nuclear Emergency Coordination Commission as
saying that the radioactive level detected does not affect human health
and no preventive measures are necessary."
From Kyodo:
The radioactive material is believed to have drifted from Japan as a result of radiation leaking from the earthquake-crippled Fukushima Daiichi nuclear power complex.
China detected low levels of radioactive iodine-131 in the air over Heilongjiang Province in the northeast for the second day on Sunday, Xinhua said, adding that public health and the environment were not affected.
Chinese monitoring stations detected radioactive material in the air for the first time on Saturday, according to China's Nuclear Emergency Coordination Commission.
And courtesy of EX-SKF, we now learn that TEPCO is once again doing all it can to massage disclosure and delay the release of potentially unpalatable data, after the Asahi Shinbun only recently announced that the Pressure vessels in reactors 1, 2 and 3 may have holes confirming everybody's worst fears of full blown release of radioactive particles in the environment.
From EX-SKF:
From Asahi Shinbun news about one hour ago (3:00PM JST 3/28/2011). Why
the hell are they reporting it now?? The information was supposed to
have been revealed in the press conference that TEPCO had past midnight
on March 28, according to the article:
Tokyo Electric Power Company (TEPCO) admitted to the possibility in its early March 28 press conference that the steel Reactor Pressure Vessels that hold nuclear fuel rods in the Reactors 1, 2, 3 at Fukushima I Nuclear Plant may have broken. TEPCO explained the situation "Imagine there's a hole." Because
of this "hole", contaminated water that's been poured into the Pressure
Vessels to cool the fuel rods continues to leak, it is assumed.In
the Reactors 1, 2, and 3, the water level within the Pressure Vessels
are not rising as much as desired. TEPCO admitted in the March 28 press
conference that the reason why the Pressure Vessels haven't been filled
with water was "probably a hole near the bottom, that's the image we
have". Asked why there was a hole, TEPCO answered they did not know.The
Reactor Pressure Vessels (RPVs) are the most important of the 5-layer
protection against radiation leak (other 4 are the fuel pellets,
cladding of fuel rods, Container Vessels, and the Reactor buildings).
The RPVs at Fukushima I Nuclear Power Plant is made of 16-centimeter
thick steel, and it has an outlet at the bottom to insert measuring
instruments. It is possible that the leak is from that area.TEPCO also admitted to the possibility of the exposed nuclear fuel rods overheating and damaging the RPVs.
According to the nuclear experts, if the fuel rods get damaged and
start to melt, it will fall to the bottom of the RPVs and settle. It
then becomes harder to cool with water effectively, because the surface
area is smaller. It is possible that the melted fuel rods melted the
wall of the RPVs with high temperature and created a hole.On the
other hand, TEPCO said it didn't think the RPVs are completely broken,
because the pressures inside the RPVs were higher than the atmosphere.
"It is not like Chernobyl where the RPV exploded and the fuels were
outside the RPV." TEPCO continued to believe in the integrity of the
RPVs.
The article continues, but it's not about the RPVs. So far, it's only at Asahi.
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I just hope he stays AWAY from the jacuzzi.
But in all seriousness, where does TEPCO go from here? Any engineers or nuke-field professionals care to comment?
>Any engineers or nuke-field professionals care to comment?
Beyond Design Basis.
Cant hear you. Beyond Design BASIS!
--
Brawndo, it's got what nuclear plants crave!
+1
'But in all seriousness, where does TEPCO go from here?'
From the deliberate lying bullshit we've witnessed I'd say the second hand car dealer business might be well suited...
Wow, This news is horrible. Nflx is down a whole +10.
Does this mean when the reactor problem is fixed, TZOO will go up another 40 points?
LOL...
No one has any good ideas. They are trying to keep it under control (and failing) until someone can think of something. I am no nuke engineer, but it seems that entombment won't work yet or they would be doing it. I keep thinking about what is happening from the bottom. If it has a leaky bottom, entombment of the whole site will not work. If it is leaking from the bottom, how would they get a big assed diaper on Nuclear Boy?
Nuclear boy had a Pu blowout.
golf clap
they would be doing it :
You mean the Japanese will willingly loose face?
Loosing face, they can deal with; but loosing (electrical) power will never be accepted.
Very Important !! My original post on other thread @ 11:22 AM central
Over @ the RADNET, site levels are starting to ramp up big time. I suspect this system will be unavailable as it has been in the the middle of the trading day for the last week (wouldn't want to hurt the equities - right)
If you would like to check it out for yourself here are the links
https://cdxnode64.epa.gov/radnet-public/showMap.do
and the query history link
https://cdxnode64.epa.gov/radnet-public/query.do
as an example Colorado Springs from the map page.
Fixed Monitor Location: CO: COLORADO SPRINGS
Measurement Start Date/Time: 03/28/2011 10:30:06 AM
Measurement End Date/Time: 03/28/2011 11:30:14 AM
Beta Gross Count Rate (CPM): 282
and then from the query page for the last few hours:
2011-03-27 23:27:16122.00002011-03-28 00:27:30117.00002011-03-28 01:27:45126.00002011-03-28 02:28:00134.00002011-03-28 03:28:15150.00002011-03-28 04:28:30167.00002011-03-28 05:28:44184.00002011-03-28 06:29:00206.00002011-03-28 07:29:15231.00002011-03-28 08:29:30240.00002011-03-28 09:29:44241.00002011-03-28 10:29:59253.00002011-03-28 11:30:14282.0000
I suspect the site to be down shortly, lets see if I am right.
Update @ 11:36 central : They have now disabled the query page "it says"- (A system error occured. Please try again or contact the helpdesk) Lets see how long it takes for the map interface page to go down now.
Update @ 12:01 central: Now they have intermittent service on the map interface page. It intermittently is returning an error of - (Monitor location can not be loaded at this time) also if you even make it to the map interface over 70% of the monitoring sites won't return any data or they have a 0 in the CPM line which means that they are not despensing data from this site.
Sorry for the long post but this shit really pisses me off ! First of all "We" taxpayers fund this system 100% but only the "special" people get to frontrun their life's needs with the data.
Sound familiar ?
did you see there is no longer reporting from northern alabama after they hit an alert level of 174 this morning?
did you see there is no longer reporting from northern alabama after they hit an alert level of 174 this morning?
What does your own monitor say?
I guess Japan doesn't need to worry about China invading anymore.
Maybe China can donate 5,000,000 expendables to help the cause?
TOKYO (AP) -- Workers discovered new pools of radioactive water leaking from Japan's crippled nuclear complex, officials said Monday, as emergency crews struggled to pump out hundreds of tons of contaminated water and bring the plant back under control.
Officials believe the contaminated water has sent radioactivity levels soaring at the coastal complex and caused more radiation to seep into soil and seawater. Crews also found traces of plutonium in the soil outside of the complex on Monday, but officials insisted there was no threat to public health.
Plutonium -- a key ingredient in nuclear weapons -- is present in the fuel at the complex, which has been leaking radiation for over two weeks, so experts had expected some to be found once crews began searching for evidence of it this week.
I have the original Japanese text pasted above my translation at the link. You can see for yourself if you read Japanese.
The Chinese believe smoking is good for them. Ann Coulter should move to China, they could use another willing shill.
You don't hear Qaddafi worrying about holes in the Fukushima reactors -- he's a little preoccupied at the moment, but prepared nonetheless.
From:
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-03-27/libya-can-tap-7-billion-in-gold...
Well when you've got other wars going badly, the best thing to do is just start a new one. Like having a baby to save a bad marriage.
At least he fights his wars with honest money
I was talking about the US.
The industrious and forward-looking Japanese are forming a committee to put in a bid for the 2,200,000,000,000,000 Summer Olympic Games.
>Summer Olympic Games.
Neo-Tokyo for sure!
--
Brawndo, it's got what nuclear plants crave!
I wonder how fast a three legged man can run the 100 anyways?
Why stop at three? Manipedes™ FTW!
even with I131 blowing over, it's still cleaner than the air in China LOL
They have the weakest part of the PRV, the outlet, at the bottom. Why do I think that's stupid?
Well, I'd think you would definitely need to monitor attributes of the coolant coming into the core. You can't really build one without putting at least some holes in it so you can information out. At least you can be reasonably sure that what you have at the bottom of the reactor is liquid water rather than steam, even if there is a loss of power.
Until the fuel rods melt, that is....
Blythe is part of the coverup; I just know it (sarc). Why if the real truth was exposed, silver and gold would have already doubled. Perhaps 40% of the world's economy close to a potential nuclear wasteland. Makes Bythe's continuing little game this morning look rather pathetic, doesn't it?
Oops, my bad -
(face red, don't know how to remove comment)
Duh
If this shit at Fukushima keeps up, all of Japan will resemble this, soon:
Springbreak Bikini Brawl at Burger King
Interesting link about reactor #2 control room:
http://allthingsnuclear.org/post/4136147791/how-much-does-japan-know-abo...
MOX data [excerpt] Unit3 from AmNucSoc:
Turning to the Fukushima Daiichi reactors in Japan, Unit 3 was using some reactor grade MOX fuel at the time of the March 2011 earthquake. Had it been using a 40% MOX fuel core, one could expect an increase in severe accident consequences ...
However, Unit 3 was loaded with only 32 MOX fuel assemblies during refueling operations in the fall of 2010. There are a total of 548 fuel assemblies in the Unit 3 reactor core, so this represents less than 6% of the total fuel in the core. The MOX fuel had been operating in Unit 3 for less than five months; fuel assemblies are typically used for a total of 3-4 years in reactor cores before being replaced by new fuel and discharged to used fuel pools. Therefore, the MOX fuel would have built up relatively few radioactive fission products and actinides at the time of the earthquake and subsequent damage to the reactor core. With these facts in mind – the low percentage of MOX fuel in the core and the short operation time for the MOX fuel – it is evident that the presence of MOX fuel at Fukushima Daiichi Unit 3 has had no significant impact on the offsite releases of radioactivity following the earthquake and tsunami. ...
http://www.ans.org/misc/ANS-Technical-Brief-MOX-Fukushima.pdf
[Earlier, I explained rods v. assemblies from experience with PWR reactors. I guessed numbers were similar for BWRs...I was wrong, in that rods per assembly are less for BWRs, altho total rods per coreload can be similar.]
hmm the American Nuclear Society, sure sounds like a free and impartial organisation to me.
The massive cover up continues. Just like in the GOM when they sprayed toxic Corexit 9500 all over the Gulf residents to limit BP's liability, they are now down playing the radiation levels in Japan to protect the financial markets and the Nuclear Industry from meltdown. Thus far the only thing that has been accomplished is they have managed to divert much of the exposure from the air into the ocean where it can be hidden. As they cool the reactors with their make shift hoses the runoff has all made its way into the sea. They have sacrificed the ocean there just like they did the Gulf Of Mexico to cover up the real extent of the situation. It must be pretty obvious by now that the health of the people comes second to the Corporatations and the Financial industry that are responsible for these problems they create. Heck you want to get sick? Just look at how much money BP made in the clean up of the GOM by spaying their toxic shit all over people to cover up the problem they created there. Bottom line is we can't trust any reports coming from the Japanese Government, TEPCO or our own Nuclear Agency for that matter. Just follow the money and see how much the Nuclear Industry here in America contributes to political campaigns and see how far under the covers their lobbyists are in the beds of our politicians. This situation just continues to deteriorate as they run out of ways to cover the truth, yet somehow they continue to twist the facts and keep the markets from reality. Now that the media is onto the seawater contamination, I can't wait to see how they will continue this Japanese magic show and keep the people from seeing the key that unlocks the magic handcuffs. Sad thing is, when we finally are told the truth, because the truth will be too big to cover up, it will probably be too late for many people. So just continue to protect your Corporate and Financial interests and forget about humanity, because by now the value of human life and the livlihood for many of us has been written off and baked into your CRONY, greed filled financial cakes.
by tahoebumsmith, on Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:29 #1109329
The massive cover up continues. Just like in the GOM when they sprayed toxic Corexit 9500 all over the ...
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
What do you think was coming out of those nozzles that could be seen on their live bottom-of-the-gulf cameras focused on the well gushing all that crude?
Lux or Ivory (soap)?
No 'cover-up' is my contention ...
Don't care anything about Ann Coulter's piece on radiation. However, I don't have any problem with her in a pair of thigh highs and stilletos either.
are you saying that Ann Coulter is really a woman?!
Police found a body 5 kilometers from the Plant, too radioactive to handle. The man apparently died during the earthquake.
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/03/body-found-5-kilometers-from-fukushim...
Hmm....human bodies too hot to handle after floating around in coastal waters for two and a half weeks.
But we can relax....the tuna is fine I'm sure....
No wonder that aircraft carrier ghosted out of the AO at flank speed.
Some troll is on a junk spree. Every comment has been junked at least once.
Hope their having fun.
Trav, that you?
It's dripping down from the hole in his overloaded containment vessel.
I would assume it's him. He's totally lost it. Sad.
I really doubt Trav is hanging out junking posts. He doesn't junk them when he's in the middle of an argument.
wtf...I have never junked a post in my life.
Maybe once as a joke but never seriously.
Unlike some, my life doesn't revolve around ZH. I post here when I can.
Keep posting. You have your flaws, but you are not a troll, you just have strong opinions.
Just plug the damn holes.
that's what she said.
on Mon, 03/28/2011 - 13:34
#1109348
Some troll is on a junk spree. Every comment has been junked at least once.
Hope their having fun.
Trav, that you?"
Must be him. When baffling with bullshit does not work...
First let me say, that everyone wishes the japanese the best in this crisis. Their government, press and utility are being less than honest with all of us, but especially their own people. That said, I do not understand the apparent obsession of this story on this forum. The markets {Nikkei included} could care less. It is pretty much a non-event now. We all know there has been meltdowns of these reactors. It is MUCH worse than we have been led to believe. Still, no matter. All that matters are POMOs and continued QE. Nothing else matters. Go ahead, short IWM, the "Qs" or any other so called investment out there. Hell, there is even a bidding war going on right now for Maiden Lane 2 , can you believe that one? they are fighting over the bare bones of long gone "assets". Welcome to bazarro world. Dr.Faber has it right again, as usual. We are in the "Crack up-boom". Anyone who can't see this is blind.
Maiden Lane 2 owns that fine hotel chain that is Red Roof Inn.
Valuable assets, those.
/sarc
More on ducts and underground tunnels filled with radioactive water:
http://ex-skf.blogspot.com/2011/03/fukushima-i-nuke-plant-more-on.html
Interesting picture of "Corium Lava". The picture of the lava flow explains what happens to nuclear fuel under very bad accident conditions. Rather than using the 'Elephant's Foot' I have chosen to use the picture of the lava coming out of a pipe as it shows that it did slow. The understanding of the lava is critical to understanding the likely release of much of the activity still within the plant which will occur potentially in the future.
Three brave divers went swimming in the underplant "bubbler pools' to open sluice valves, so that this "lava" would not hit that water and erupt, throwing more radiation into the atmosphere. All three of them suffered ARS (Acute Radiation Sickness), two of them died. ;-(
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pictureofchernobyllavaflow.jpg
Interesting reading. Including all the links, I spent a few hours here last night.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_disaster
I remember reading about those divers 4 or 5 years ago when I was researching Chernobyl...talk about a scary fuckin mission. I can't even imagine.
Oh yeah, but "it's only a tiny leak...."
MSNBC reporting just now that 1000 m/sv found outside reactor 2, and also that 3 types of plutonium found in soil near the plant on 3/21 and 3/22.
It seems clear that the velocity of lies, omissions, and obfuscations has been quite near the speed of sound from the beginning.
I'm having difficulty finding words that adequately characterize where I think this thing is going. It's already a tragedy, a catastrophe, a clusterfuck, a horror, a nightmare.
This is actually starting to scare me now. It's like watching a mentally deficient child play with a loaded .44 in the back of the short bus, but even that is an understatement.
I am dismayed.
Thought experiment. I am not saying this is true, but lets conduct a thought experiment.
Let's say the nuke plant is so fucked, you don't know what to do to improve the situation. No one knows what to do. You do know you have plutonium laying all over the place. You know that the radiation leaking is going to be really fucking bad, at minimum, Tokyo is going to be uninhabitable. What would you do?
If I let the world know this, just straight up, what happens?
What can I do to cause the least harm, given things are pretty fucked?
Do what the Captain of the Titanic did. Tell all of the residents there will be an orderly limited evacuation from the area. After a certain perimeter is empty, keep expanding out until you finally arrive at New Zealand. All the while tell them this is only temporary, they will be back home in a few days, and only to have the shirts on their backs, no baggage. The less contaminated goods the better. Little do they know, they will NEVER return home. But they will figure that out after several years.
Thank you, MsCreant. You have won my genuine respect, madame.
Your points are well taken and perhaps you are correct that Tepco and the Japanese government are actually focused on some version of your final question. I hope so with all my heart.
This is a well designed thought experiment. I admit that the dilemma is excruciating, and that I am torn at the crux of it, but if I must choose - then I say tell the unadorned truth from the outset. It is the most moral of the two choices, imo.
I would immediately beseech the world to come to Japan's rescue. I would present a well crafted evacuation plan, and trust the Japanese people to calmly act accordingly, as most of them have almost always done. I would then marshall every resource at my disposal to bring this thing to an end without care to saving face.
You were merciful not to bring the ongoing recovery from earthquake and tsunami into the equation. I admit that I merely hope that I would do as I have outlined above. One cannot know until one is in the fire oneself.
In either case, I very much appreciate the sensitivity and nuance of your reply.
The problem here is that Japanese officials have only evacuated a 30 km circumference (except for the fish). They don't even have a plan to evacuate the city of Fukushima.
So it appears that as long as the wind is blowing over the Pacific they believe the problem is "Contained".Actually, I think the speed of sound is too slow. They had to go straight to LUDICROUS SPEED!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuFAFPjbdy4&feature=related
I agree Matte Black. It is just a matter of time now.
By delaying evacuations, they will make matter worse when the winds change and this crap blows southwesterly.
At some point, panic will set in.
To all Hedgers. Why is it that we, the proletariat, have not gone fucking postal on all these pricks.
Babies are gonna die for christ sake.
PS to Anonymous, please go fucking postal on these pricks and do your best to fuck them up,
This cannot go unanswered.
all the best to all our japanese friends
Radiation hormesis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiation_hormesis
This is fantastic. I demand that the government open low-dose radiation facilities nationwide so we can all enjoy the health benefits.
Only...not too close to my house, okay?
So whaddaya sayin.....Ann may have been on to something?
A question I've always had, but don't know the answer to, is what the long term problems have been in and around Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Obviously many were killed instantly and many suffered effects of high dose exposure to radiation, but they've rebuilt those cities, so how long did it take for the latent radiation levels to become 'safe' again?
Anyone know a good place to find a mapping of the Japanese subterranean river system?
Does such a map exist?
"According to the nuclear experts, if the fuel rods get damaged and start to melt, it will fall to the bottom of the RPVs and settle. It then becomes harder to cool with water effectively, because the surface area is smaller. It is possible that the melted fuel rods melted the wall of the RPVs with high temperature and created a hole".
If there is the slightest hole in the bottom head, once compromised, the hole will expand rapidly, and allow the completely molten blob to fall below.
#2 was blown out under pressure.
Core on the floor!
Any doubters still ... ?
For someone running the cleanup operation, TEPCO doesn't know much. In short, all monitoring equipment is down and it is too dangerous to take measurements via portable devices or they are scared to know the truth so they don't.
It's about time China got "more involved" in this radiation thing that the Japanese officials kept calling, "a tiny leak."