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China In Diplomatic Gaffe, Backtracks After Leaked Report Discloses Country Ready To Use Preemptive Nukes

Tyler Durden's picture




 

This morning China is forced to do some unpleasant diplomatic damage control. After an earlier report in Kyodo News disclosed leaked documents that China has revised its escalation doctrine to initiate a pre-emptive nuclear strike in response to a conventional attack, the country is now furiously scrambling to refute any such "interpretations." After all the last thing the already volatile North-South Korean theater needs is the worry of an unstable big brother next door who may just type in the launch codes if an artillery shell veers a few degrees off course. In its original report Kyodo announced that The Chinese military will consider launching a preemptive nuclear
strike if the country finds itself faced with a critical situation in a
war with another nuclear state, internal documents showed Wednesday. The newly revealed policy, called "Lowering the threshold of nuclear
threats," may contradict China's strategy of no first use of nuclear
weapons under any circumstances, and is likely to fan concern in the
United States, Japan and other regional powers about Beijing's nuclear
capability. Per obtained documents, the People's Liberation Army's strategic missile forces, the Second Artillery Corps, "will adjust the nuclear threat policy if a nuclear missile-possessing country carries out a series of air strikes against key strategic targets in our country with absolutely superior conventional weapons." China will first warn an adversary about a nuclear strike, but if the enemy attacks Chinese territory with conventional forces the PLA "must carefully consider" a preemptive nuclear strike. Of course, there is only one country that has "absolutely superior conventional weapons" and they know it. Which begs the question: why was this leaked now, and considering the recent spike in Chinese stealth fighter sightings, is China trying to send its biggest debtor "ally" a not so secret  message?

From the original Kyodo report:

The Chinese military will consider launching a preemptive nuclear strike if the country finds itself faced with a critical situation in a war with another nuclear state, internal documents showed Wednesday.

The newly revealed policy, called "Lowering the threshold of nuclear threats," may contradict China's strategy of no first use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances, and is likely to fan concern in the United States, Japan and other regional powers about Beijing's nuclear capability.

The People's Liberation Army's strategic missile forces, the Second Artillery Corps, "will adjust the nuclear threat policy if a nuclear missile-possessing country carries out a series of air strikes against key strategic targets in our country with absolutely superior conventional weapons," according to the documents, copies of which were obtained by Kyodo News.

China will first warn an adversary about a nuclear strike, but if the enemy attacks Chinese territory with conventional forces the PLA "must carefully consider" a preemptive nuclear strike.

The documents suggest that the Second Artillery Corps educate its personnel in worst-case scenarios for conflicts with other nuclear states.

China's nuclear policy is not transparent and it is rare for a part of it to come to light.

Akio Takahara, a professor of contemporary Chinese politics at the University of Tokyo's Graduate School of Public Policy, said an adjustment of the PLA's nuclear threat policy as spelled out in the documents runs counter to President Hu Jintao's pledge that China will not launch a preemptive nuclear strike under any circumstances.

"It is uncertain whether such policy adjustment represents a policy shift or has been in existence from before," Takahara said. "But a preemptive strike as assumed (in the documents) would apply to an extreme situation such as war with the United States, and that is almost inconceivable today. I think President Hu is aware of that."

U.S. military experts have argued since around 2007 that Beijing may have shown signs of altering its pledge of no first use of nuclear weapons.

According to the documents, the PLA would strengthen nuclear threats against an adversary if the adversary threatened to attack China's nuclear and hydro power plants and major cities including Beijing.

The PLA would also tighten its nuclear threat policy in the event that extremely unfavorable war situations put the nation's existence at risk.

Under such circumstances, the PLA would first warn an enemy of a nuclear attack on specific targets through such media as television and the Internet.

While referring to careful consideration of a preemptive nuclear strike, the documents said the Second Artillery Corps "must strictly follow" instructions by the Chinese Communist Party's Central Military Commission.

The corps "must not adjust" the nuclear threat policy by itself, they said.

The PLA must win broad support from the international community and take the "strategic initiative" if it were to use nuclear weapons, they added.

Japanese journalist Satoshi Tomisaka, who is familiar with Chinese military affairs, said the documents signal a departure from China's declaration of a no-first-use policy, about which the international community has long been in doubt.

Tomisaka suspects the Communist Party leadership may not exercise sufficient civilian control over the PLA, saying military officers spoke aggressively before Hu about a plan to build Chinese-made air carriers.

Ping Kefu, a Hong Kong-based military analyst, expressed a similar view, saying Hu may not even be aware of Beijing's nuclear threat policy adjustment because it is strictly an internal affair of the PLA.

And the subsequent Chinese backtracking, again via Kyodo:

China rejected Thursday an earlier news report that said the country will consider launching a preemptive nuclear strike under critical situations in a war and slammed it as groundless and borne out of ulterior motives.

Kyodo News reported Wednesday that obtained internal documents showed the Chinese military will consider a 'strike-first' nuclear policy if faced with a critical situation in a war with another nuclear state.

The policy, called "Lowering the threshold of nuclear threats," may contradict China's strategy of no first use of nuclear weapons under any circumstances and is likely to fan concern in the United States, Japan and other regional powers about Beijing's nuclear capability.

"The relevant report is totally groundless and with ulterior motives," Foreign Ministry spokesman Hong Lei said when asked to comment on the news report.

"From the very first day that China possessed nuclear weapons, the Chinese government made a solemn pledge to never be the first to use nuclear weapons, at any time, under whatever circumstances and has been living up to this promise," he said.

 

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Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:18 | 851908 Twindrives
Twindrives's picture

Obama will be right over to kiss Bejings' ass. 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:22 | 851914 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

Hu's ass?

 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:19 | 851983 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture

send in Team America World Police, I am sure Gary can sort things out "by sucking [Hu's] cock"

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:06 | 852135 Voluntary Exchange
Voluntary Exchange's picture

"Civilization" based on "legal" violence must evolve to one

based on mutual freedom and voluntary exchanges or the game will come to an end for all of us.

 

The Story of Your Enslavement:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xbp6umQT58A

Stop associating with those who want to remain slaves!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zyBOEBWO-yA&NR=1

 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 12:22 | 852706 A Texan
Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:52 | 852164 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

Wen?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:20 | 851909 TheGreatPonzi
TheGreatPonzi's picture

The scenario of the Fallout games is becoming more likely. There is no real way to avoid nuclear confrontation, especially in a time of economic scarcity.

It is obvious that the USA is not an enemy of China, but who knows what will happen in the future...

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:29 | 851923 Quintus
Quintus's picture

On the other hand, if the US were to declare war on China then, as I understand it, all debts owed to China would immediately become null and void.  Handy, that.

There's probably no need to do much actual fighting either.  Maybe just trump up some excuse via a proxy war in, say, Korea.  Declare war on China in support of our allies in S. Korea and voila!  A couple of trillion of US debt vanishes overnight.  Having done this, the US then 'Reluctantly' agrees to take part in peace negotiations sponsored by the UN etc. and miraculously a major hot war is avoided.  China does not get its money back though.

Pretty far-fetched, I know.  On the other hand, if competition with China for natural resources gets really heated and the US needs a way to really hurt China....

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:00 | 851967 superflyguy
superflyguy's picture

In your scenario you assume China will forget we owed them trillions.

You also assume we suddenly start producing more than we're spending. Yes, it's pretty far fetched. No, it's impossible.

Notice how China is buying everyone's debt? The more likely scenario is that they will forgive our debt in exchange for our soil.

As a side note, I've been interviewing people for my company's APAC branch and noticed (reading resumes) how US State governments regularly outsourced their IT jobs offshore. I wouldn't be surprized that even our nuke software development is outsourced and that someone over there has a master-key to detonate or deactive them.

 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:12 | 851980 Quintus
Quintus's picture

They won't forget, but what can they do?  Invade? Stop buying Treasuries?  Now that Benron is gleefully buying anything in sight and has overtaken China as the #1 holder of US debt would anyone notice if he buys a few Trillion more?  They should, of course, but will they?

Another corollary would be the sparsely populated shelves at Walmart in the absence of Chinese products to fill them, but no doubt the spin on this would be that the hardship is worthwhile as the US 'Reclaims the jobs China stole from us and rebuilds American manufacturing and American jobs! blah, blah, blah'.  Whip up enough nationalist feeling (We're at war don't you know!) and people might even buy it.

China knows that one way or another, the US will screw them out of the debt they own.  Either slowly via inflation or rapidly via selective default.  I think that's what's behind this clearly deliberate 'Leak'.  

 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:26 | 851987 4xaddict
4xaddict's picture

there is zero incentive for a Chinese national to leak information. They know that their families, friends, pets etc will all get a smack from the authorities for their actions. Furthermore the politburo only give positions of influence to those with something to lose who come from within very tightly held spheres of influence. These are the same folks all benefiting from the massive growth in Chinese wealth and probably owning USTs by association.

If this wasn't orchestrated then I would love to hear what the internal investigation procedure is for finding the mole.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:01 | 852050 NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

+1 If it truly was an information leak not central government approved, I'm sure we will soon be hearing about the execution of the low-level party member responsible.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:32 | 851991 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Well said. 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:59 | 853444 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Well, they would start, with the sympathy of the world behind them, by declaring the US a rogue criminal state.  From there it would start with boycots and blockades which the currently diminished US fleets could easily overcome, but in doing so would create the very acts of war that might provoke the necessary first strike. There is no question that the US is currently militarily superior in strategic aspects, but that kind of ties its hands in ways we don't appreciate.  The US could very easily isolate itself from the rest of the world, its resources, and its cheap sources of goods ... while it could certainly make up for this with internal production, it would undoubtedly be a long period of privation that the parasite classes would not tolerate, and there would most likely be significant internal strife that would rip the country apart.  All this long before a situation were to go nuclear.

 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 15:22 | 853467 Triggernometry
Triggernometry's picture

China unofficially ended its no-first-use policy with the fall of the USSR, fearing being caught flat-footed should one of the break-aways seek to consolidate gains along disputed borders.

It seems plausible they would exchange debt for land, especially in europe. More reasonable would be a write-off/down of interest payments in exchange for tax free land holdings under the guise of establishing production facilities within smaller countries bailed out by China. Such facilities would inevitably arm themselves discreetly from within.

The most devastating life form on the planet is the virus, and it always turns the host's production mechanisms against itself, a strategy evolution has perfected.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:49 | 852019 samsara
samsara's picture

On the other hand, if the US were to declare war on China then, as I understand it, all debts owed to China would immediately become null and void.  Handy, that.

 

Well, since we owe the Fed more than we do China,  Would it work if we declare war on the Fed?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:10 | 852063 Quintus
Quintus's picture

I guess it would, as long as the Fed re-structured itself as a sovereign state first.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:22 | 851911 nathan1234
nathan1234's picture

IMHO it was an intended leak. To let the US and Japan know that the same doctrine applied by the US in the Gulf- viz preemptive attack done by them can also be done by others.

After all who needs to justify such an attack? The US was proved wrong when they used this doctrine, millions have been killed and they have not paid any price for it.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:27 | 851921 Z
Z's picture

It bears a remarkable resemblance to my pre-emptive first strike nuclear uppercut policy.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:51 | 851944 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Agreed, an intended leak to flex their muscle. The USA knows China is the 800 lbs gorilla in the room.... a sleeping military giant as it were.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:55 | 851953 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

The Soviet Union was also a military giant. So what. It still collapsed like a house of cards.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:22 | 852258 rocker
rocker's picture

Wrong. Some in America do not understand that we are NOT the world's greatest military power.

Wake up and stop smelling Neo Roses.  Do not wish to argue. But my statement is now a Fact.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:35 | 851993 weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Military midget more like it.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:02 | 852053 Batty Koda
Batty Koda's picture

Ahem... the US can't win a war against sandal wearing fig farmers in Afghanistan, they couldn't possibly beat China in a conventional war. The troops would be balling their eyes out like babies if they were ever involved in real fighting, blowing up civilian residences from the safety of a tank doesn't count as fighting.

Plus all of Americas "allies" would quickly abandon them in a war with China.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:25 | 852268 rocker
rocker's picture

Right on. We can not even salvage a disaster in our own nation.  China, Russia, Iran and North Korea all together could wipe us out pretty fast. Russia is not a lame duck anymore. Our military is worn out and we do not have the balls to start the draft as we should have ten years ago.  Instead we used our National Guard and trashed it.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:33 | 853327 viahj
viahj's picture

that's ridiculous, our military could beat the Afghanis but the politics won't allow it or the body count. 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:14 | 851981 westboundnup
westboundnup's picture

Similar to the still unexplained undersea missle launch off the coast of California last month.  I guess the trial balloon of it being a jet contrail achieved the objective of having the MSM drop the story. 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:24 | 851917 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

'Once they start designing their own uniforms you know you are in deep shit.'

Billy Connelly 1985.

 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:29 | 852100 Wu Qi Ming
Wu Qi Ming's picture

HA! Nice quote. +1

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:27 | 851924 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Don't worry. China spends more annually in keeping public security and suppressing social upheavals than on national defence. A war will be a great threat to this regime since it will become an ideal opportunity for the discontented grassroots to overthrow the regime.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:45 | 851939 Withdrawn Sanction
Withdrawn Sanction's picture

True, but that knife cuts both ways.  A war would also be a way to handle their M/F population imbalance.  They could redirect internal hostility to an external agressor...it's been known to happen.

Could this be connected also w/the "missle" launch off the coast of LA a few weeks back?  Inquiring minds want to know...

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:54 | 851949 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

The best way to solve China's M/F population imbalance is to coax China into attacking India which also has a huge M/F population imbalance. Sounds a wicked plan, huh?:)

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:51 | 852158 malikai
malikai's picture

Are you aware that India's M/F imbalance is a nearly 60/40 of women to men? Are you suggesting China send troops to India to find brides?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:46 | 852344 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

No wonder those Indian bastards are looking so smug all the time. How did that happen?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:25 | 853292 malikai
malikai's picture

Miracles man, miracles.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:23 | 853693 Toburk
Toburk's picture

Are you aware that India's M/F imbalance is a nearly 60/40 of women to men?

 

This is false.

Sex Ratio:

  • at birth: 1.12 male(s)/female

  • under 15 years: 1.13 male(s)/female


  • 15-64 years: 1.07 male(s)/female



  • 65 years and over: 0.91 male(s)/female




  • total population: 1.08 male(s)/female (2010 est.)

Only for 65+ do women outnumber men, and this would be because the life expectancy for men in India is... wait for it... 65.  The numbers are only slightly better than China's
Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:30 | 851927 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Intended leak and one sucked up readily by the global oligarchs who realize that the pretext of the current "war on terror" is wearing a little thin.

Reduce military spending? Never.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:39 | 851933 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Ooopsy!  "Never mind what General Bang Dai-Ho just said..... he's still pissed."

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 07:45 | 851940 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

Question. Do they mean by that: Tactical nuclear strike? Strategic nuclear strike? Or an EMP strike over enemy territory?  And does that thing on the picture even fly or is it just for a show?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:02 | 852191 malikai
malikai's picture

Tactical is always what they "mean". However, in event of war, it would almost surely be the whole load in the air as soon as possible to avoid having the sites vaporized by incoming weapons. This will be backed up by the thought that "If I destroy the enemy's everything, he may not be able to hit me.". Launching an EMP over enemy territory is only useful in the opening stage of a nuclear war, because of the panic and confusion it would create. This is because an EMP is strictly a civilian targeting weapon. Remember, all missile sites, aircraft, and bombs, cruise missiles, military satellites, etc are all very well hardened against EMP. It is the civilian kit which gets fried by EMP.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:13 | 852222 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

It is the civilian kit which gets fried by EMP.

And even a large part of that is unintentionally shielded against EMP by metal cases of all kinds, such as car and truck bodies, metal computer boxes, power supply cases, metal desks, etc. EMP will be a problem, but MUCH tinier than is constantly warned about in the blogosphere.

And YES, I do know about RF on a professional level.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:27 | 852280 malikai
malikai's picture

While the (case) shielding will absolutely help with most disconnected nonradio kit, remember the two most vulnerable types of equipment to EMP: Radios and Mains power connected equipment. This means two things: No phones, radios, or other personal communications devices, apart from the military's specifically hardened equipment. And no televisions, computers, or other sensitive electronics. This is why I say it's a civilian weapon. Communications will cease the moment the EMP strikes.

People notice the power goes out one night, then they smell something funny coming from their PCs, TVs, and stereos. Next they notice a strange glow outside, take a look, and see the most brilliant aurora ever before seen. Those who've seen the starfish prime or bluegill shots will know the score, everyone else will be outside wondering what kind of beautiful atmospheric phenomenon is going on. Then they see the streaks of the RVs moving across the sky. "Perhaps it is a meteor shower" some may say. Suddenly a brief flash, followed by scorching burning of the eyes and a wave of heat on the flesh.

That's probably just about how it'd go.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uEILIf8VkgI

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:00 | 851968 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Once your're bitten by the MADness bug, you are MAD. Thus all the MADness we see abounding globally. And the players, all that matter, are nuclear states.

You know a nuclear winter does not necessarily start in November, it's a figure of speech. And little leaks like this prove that some of the MAD states do not grasp the concept. 

And they go pointing fingers at poor old Pakistan.

MAD!

ORI

http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/01/05/stairwell-sigtar/

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:07 | 851975 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

More and more propaganda. Excellent. Quick evolution of preemptive strike meaning. Awesome. Wonderful.

So far, preemptive strike would mean that if you feel insecure about a guy or something, you would strike with no provocation other than your fear the guy might come at you.

 

Ladies and Gentlemen, US newspeak type, now preemptive strike meaning: when you are assaulted, and assaulted by people who are stronger than you, striking them with a weapon that could help you out is preemptive strike.

It is really smelling for China as more and more, they are pinned for behaviours that are common in the US. More and more, US citizens considers themselves entitled with priviledges.

Chinese man aggressed by a trained killer  with a knife, holding out his gun to thwart off the aggressor, that is pre-emptive strike.

 Good old US citizen, shooting on sight on a guy on the ground the guy looks dangerous.  Preemptive strike.

First case would request apologies and second case is normal business for US citizens.

With the US, always the same path: every human being have equal rights, trouble is that not every human being is a human being by US definition.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:34 | 852112 malikai
malikai's picture

"It is really smelling for China as more and more, they are pinned for behaviours that are common in the US. More and more, US citizens considers themselves entitled with priviledges."

 

Good call. I'm not sure which revision of the Newspeak dictionary you are using, but I'll have to get it. I guess it's at Amazon, next to the how to be a pedophile book.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 11:37 | 852520 sushi
sushi's picture

I think he is trying to say that China is simply following the Bush Doctrine.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:15 | 852228 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Huh? You lost me at arf, arf, arf!

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:28 | 851989 JustinObodie
JustinObodie's picture

"..is China trying to send its biggest debtor "ally" a not so secret  message?"

Yep.

Sun Tzu:

"Hence to fight and conquer in all your battles is not supreme excellence; supreme excellence consist in breaking the enemy's resistance without fighting."

 

"Thus it is that in war the victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory."

 

 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:30 | 852103 malikai
malikai's picture

Doubtful. Remember, the military in China is a state of its own. They have their own policies, objectives, and motivations. The "party" is more of a generous uncle who's job it is to provide them with the toys they want should the day ever come.

"Know yourself and know your enemy and you will never lose a battle. Know yourself but not your enemy and you will win 1/2 of your battles. Know neither yourself nor your enemy and you shall lose all battles." -My favorite Sun Tsu quote

I see this as more of an incompetent leak than a "message". If it is a message, it is a message to North Korea. Something of the "Hey, we're still on your side." type of message. This can also be interpreted as a lie. Note that China still believes in maintaining NK as a buffer state - which they should. The US has far too many permanent bases in SK for China to be comfortable with. 


 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:31 | 851990 wgpitts
wgpitts's picture

Dear China - If you have to use it, please remember 33 Liberty Street NYC - They are the ones who attacked and stole your money NOT the American People

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:37 | 851996 Escapeclaws
Escapeclaws's picture

It was undoubtedly that damn Assange who is responsible for this leak. Sarah Palin was right, we should put him away for the rest of his life.

sarc/off

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:45 | 852013 creviceCaress
creviceCaress's picture

the usual china/u.s. endgame banter is displayed yet again;

 

-u.s. will never go rogue or 'physical' on china because they prop the western economies

-china will never drop dime on u.s. because..they hold alotta debt

-china's peeps are gonna take over anytime now...revoluxian!

-u.s. military would woop-ass china

-chinese navy/tech would woop-ass u.s.

-china scared of n.kor

-japan ever gets a military, they woop-ass china

-u.s. + china = collusion theater

 

MAD-mutually assured destruction

- need anymore evidence that the "civilization" and/or "society" we live in is clinically pathologically psychotic?    i bet it's all theater...unless you know,you dont know either way......regardless, if it is or aint, they're all psycho. 

 

entertainment value of post;  7.7

 

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:46 | 852014 malikai
malikai's picture

This is a non-story.

Let's consider a hot conflict between the US and China over North Korea. If the US and China are in a fighting war, near or on Chinese soil. Who would not expect it to go nuclear in a matter of days, or even hours?

This is the exact same situation as was during the cold war, and nothing has or will change.

Nuclear powers CANNOT fight each other. They know that if they do, everybody loses. MAD prevails, plain and simple. Why was there no direct military confrontation between the US and USSR after Russia developed their own bomb? Why has there been no fighting between the US and China since the Korean war? Why have Pakistan and India not had any real fighting in Kashmir since Pakistan started mounting nukes on their missiles?

The answer is simple. If you and your enemy both have the doomsday bomb, you are both now obligated in the name of your own survival to negotiate out of any conflict, period.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:50 | 852024 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Or fight through proxies.  The most common option...Which allows nuclear powers to join the fray.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:19 | 852079 malikai
malikai's picture

Exactly.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:35 | 852116 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It hasn't been too long ago that we created a media frenzy on our anti-missile test...  where we shot an incoming test missile out of the sky, high into the atmosphere...  my guess is china can't reciprocate this defense...

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:47 | 852148 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You need to learn some cold war history...there were many unpublicized, touchy 'skirmishes', mostly underwater, if you get my drift and we came close to finding out about nuclear winter on several occasions too.

Do not assume these monkeys have your same facility with logic.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:53 | 852168 malikai
malikai's picture

Thanks for attempting to insult me, but instead demonstrating my point. Now ask yourself this: Why did none of those "skirmishes" ever result in any real fighting? Perhaps a step back to look at the bigger picture will help you understand.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:25 | 852238 snowball777
snowball777's picture

So all those shenanigans in Central America were completely unrelated? Hm.

And that business in Afghanistan in the late 70s early 80s...unrelated?

Pull the other one (and I revoke the statement about your facility with logic as you've successfully demonstrated a counter-example).

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:38 | 852318 malikai
malikai's picture

Just out of curiosity here. Why are we still alive? Why has there been no WW3 yet, despite all these "close calls" you accurately point out? Could it have something to do with MAD doctrine, and the requirement that direct conflict between nuclear powers is suicide for all parties involved?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:47 | 852016 fenner
fenner's picture

Lol...this article makes my day.

As they fight so fiercely their positions in 2012 reshuffle, they have no time/effort to consider to use preemptive nukes. 

It's just a Kyodo ads, persuading JP and SK to buy more and more weapons and military equipments from US. Propaganda, simple put.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:50 | 852023 Batty Koda
Batty Koda's picture

Yes, they're saying "fuck off Zbigniew, you go to hell, you go to hell and you die!"

Similar to the wikileaks, hooha. Just strategic leaking. Obama's main advisor doesn't like commies because he's a Polish aristocrat and the soviet occupation wasn't very nice. So he wants to destroy China and Russia's governments so that they can be assimilated into the New World Order.

If part of his plan involved strategic bombing of China then now he knows better.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 08:58 | 852042 ageofreason
ageofreason's picture

If that pussy Truman would have listend to Douglas MacArthur....we wouldn't be worrying about China right now.....

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 11:19 | 852445 oddjob
oddjob's picture

you sound like Sam Kinison.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:01 | 852047 eulogy
eulogy's picture

On the other hand, if the US were to declare war on China then, as I understand it, all debts owed to China would immediately become null and void. - Quintus

Quintus, with that single statement you just shown that you don't understand diddly squat about how the US treasury market works. Far-fetched? No. Absolutely impossible is more like it. The day sovereign selective defaults comes into play is the day all commerce, domestic and international, end.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:18 | 852078 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yeah.  Sure.  And the day the Monoline insurers collapsed was the end of the Bond market.  And the day Fannie and Freddie were nationalised was the end of the mortgage market in the US.  And the day a European country went bust was the end of the Euro.  And the day the US started printing money was the end of the dollar. etc. etc. etc.  Remember those stories?

If the last few years have not taught you that rules and laws are there to be broken, and that the system will adapt to almost any previously unthinkable scenario to prolong its survival for just a little longer, then perhaps you should sit down and have a long, hard think.

BTW - my statement, as it stands, is entirely correct, regardless of the probability you attach to such an event occurring.  It accurately reflects the legal position in respect of debts owed to enemy states in a time of war.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:02 | 852192 eulogy
eulogy's picture

Frankly, not sure why you listing to me all those examples as they are completely irrelavant. You may think it highlights your ability to recount historical events. All it shows me is your inability to form a cohesive argument requiring you to use non sequitor events as a filler.

Yes, some rules and laws are there to be broken, (i refrain to think that you could possibly be implying that all rules and laws are there to be broken) but perhaps you didn't account for the fact that after such events there are always effects to the system, and in this case the effect will be particularly debilitating. In your "null and void" scenario introducing 'sovereign selective default' effectively gives the US the discretion to default on any and/or all debt holders at a moments notice, at any time, without recourse. If you were stupid enough to invest in that debt, then you'd certainly deserve it.

As for your last point, are you saying this out of experience, or simply because it sounds good? I agree debt assets held by enemy states may be frozen for the duration of the conflict but it certainly doesn't completely dissolve the debt issuer of their obligations.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:27 | 852286 Quintus
Quintus's picture

I'm not sure how you can argue with someone who makes a statement as ludicrous as ' The day sovereign selective defaults comes into play is the day all commerce, domestic and international, end.'  Nevertheless I shall devote 2 more minutes of my day to it.

Seriously?  ALL commerce? Everywhere?   You mean that a person in, let's say, Peru can no longer buy a loaf of bread from his local shop just because the US has defaulted on it's debt to China?  Really?  Damn, that's bad - I never thought of that.  We'll all be dead within weeks!  And just think of all the poor Arabs sitting on oceans of Oil and starving in their desert countries, while vehicles all over the world sit motionless because there is no way for them to conduct the necessary commercial transactions to get the Oil into the vehicles.  

I provide a list of similar ludicrous, but popular at the time, 'The system will crash if X happens' memes to highlight that the system does not, ever stop dead, when X (short of some kind of nuclear war) happens.  It adapts, and people and organizations find another way to do business.  Perhaps it was a leap to far for you to draw the parallel.  If so, I apologize.

As regards my final point, you said "Quintus, with that single statement you just shown that you don't understand diddly squat about how the US treasury market works".  I merely pointed out that my statement is an accurate statement of fact.  I would be delighted to hear how you managed to infer directly from this one sentence the extent or otherwise of my knowledge of the Treasuries market.  Can you please walk me through your thought process?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:16 | 853675 weyes1
weyes1's picture

But that would take two more minutes...

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 16:23 | 853694 eulogy
eulogy's picture

very well, i'll admit that my "all commerce" comment went on a hyperbole, if you want to score on that, you can have the point. either way, you still haven't refudiated my point about the debt market. As quoted earlier, what you are calling for is selective default, which isn't just some petty play between China and the US but an action which turns the concept of debt obligations from, "Aside from declaring bankruptcy, i will pay you back" into "I'll pay you back if i feel like it". Based on that paradigm shift, do you really expect the international debt markets to function anymore?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:01 | 852049 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Well, this gives the U. S. a target for the upcoming false flag nuclear event in a major city near you.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:21 | 852080 SAME AS IT EVER WAS
SAME AS IT EVER WAS's picture

I'm seeing a lot of disaster spun news from the mainstream bs. Cheat street going to sweep the markets?

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:42 | 852133 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Now why would the ChiComs launch ICBMs at the very hard assets they're so busily buying up?

Come on, China...aim for Florida or Arizona!

Fri, 01/07/2011 - 10:46 | 855968 fajensen
fajensen's picture

Maybe they hold CDS on them and are losing big due to the imminent "recovery"??

Though, with all the oil fields China have allegedly bought recently they would be much better off blowing up Ghawar before their "investments" in Oil go the same way as their investment in Blackstone (that should have been a lesson about believing in western lawyer/politician-scum, but they probably did not "get" it).

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:43 | 852137 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Wow. Good thing we shit canned the F22.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 09:51 | 852154 snowball777
snowball777's picture

You'd prefer we keep blowing billions out our ass for a plane that wouldn't help in this situation at all?

(C)Raptor!

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:11 | 852211 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

What should we use instead? Planes designed in the 70s? Rocks?

People with the responsibility to protect nations are not allowed to do wishful thinking.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:25 | 852266 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Except during times of budget planning.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 11:22 | 852451 nonclaim
nonclaim's picture

Wow. Good thing we shit canned the F22.

That was a terrible decision...

But by the looks of the leaked Chinese f22 copycat images all you can say is that their designers really suck at using Photoshop. Nothing to worry except maybe a burst of laughing

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:25 | 852278 PigsOnTheWing
PigsOnTheWing's picture

"Nuke the site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:46 | 852341 Rogerwilco
Rogerwilco's picture

Has anyone else noticed that the J20 looks a lot like the F22? And we didn't even get a thank you note.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 10:50 | 852354 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

I heard they sent Clinton a nice fruit basket in thanks for the missile tech.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 11:10 | 852415 no2foreclosures
no2foreclosures's picture

Let's see.

The Japs, best pals of China who happened to liquidate a few Chinese way back in WWII, leaks secret documents on the PLA.  Humm.

What if the Persians, you know those friendlies of the Jews, leaked secret preemptive nuclear strike plans of the IDF?  Humm.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 12:07 | 852642 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

The article missed the main targets of this policy from China: India and Russia. Those are the nations who border China's sparsely populated inland regions in the North and West, regions with lots of resources and relatively few people.

This policy is designed for one primary reason: to allow China to keep the bulk of her military near the big cities on the coast, where civil unrest is likely, and not sitting far away on their Western and Northern frontiers.

Why would this policy affect Japan or Korea? It is aimed at nuclear powers, and neither of those two are.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 14:08 | 853219 Tartarus
Tartarus's picture

Nothing like some old-fashioned fearmongering about the yellow man from the East to distract us from our ponzi fraud of an economy. This should only worry countries if they have some intention of launching a war against China.

Thu, 01/06/2011 - 19:50 | 854374 nachtliche
nachtliche's picture

How dare any country besides the US even consider pre-emptive strikes!

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