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China To "Investigate" Wreckage Of Top Secret Stealth Chopper Used In bin Laden Raid
It was only a matter of time before the combination of a suddenly alienated Pakistan and a top secret stealth helicopter crashed deep in its territory, would raise the specter of China, and specifically its military complex hinting it would be delighted to peek under the dress of said crashed chopper to fortify its expanding stealth program. ABC reports: "Pakistani officials said today they're interested in studying the remains of the U.S.'s secret stealth-modified helicopter abandoned during the Navy SEAL raid of Osama bin Laden's compound, and suggested the Chinese are as well. The U.S. has already asked the Pakistanis for the helicopter wreckage back, but one Pakistani official told ABC News the Chinese were also "very interested" in seeing the remains. Another official said, "We might let them [the Chinese] take a look." Gee, following two weeks of demonization did anyone possibly consider that Pakistan would now scramble to reallign itself with China? Surely not the Clinton stepford wife (or is that husband).
A U.S. official said he did not know if the Pakistanis had offered a peek to the Chinese, but said he would be "shocked" if the Chinese hadn't already been given access to the damaged aircraft.
The chopper, which aviation experts believe to be a highly classified modified version of a Blackhawk helicopter, clipped a wall during the operation that took down the al Qaeda leader, the White House said. The U.S. Navy SEALs that rode in on the bird attempted to destroy it after abandoning it on the ground, but a significant portion of the tail section survived the explosion. In the days after the raid, the tail section and other pieces of debris -- including a mysterious cloth-like covering that the local children found entertaining to play with -- were photographed being hauled away from the crash site by tractor.
Aviation experts said the unusual configuration of the rear rotor, the curious hub-cap like housing around it and the general shape of the bird are all clues the helicopter was highly modified to not only be quiet, but to have as small a radar signature as possible.
And yes, Pakistan already owes China:
"Because Pakistan gets access to Chinese missile technology and other advanced systems, Islamabad is always looking for ways to give China something in return," Clarke said.
The Chinese and Pakistani governments are known to have a close relationship. Last month Punjab Chief Minister Muhammad Shahbaz Sharif concluded a trip to Beijing, afterwards telling Pakistan's local press that China was Pakistan's "best friend."
U.S. officials have not officially disclosed any details on the helicopter, but President Obama said it was a "$60 million helicopter," in a report by The Washington Post. While the price tag on normal Blackhawks varies depending the type, none cost more than $20 million according to the latest Department of Defense procurement report.
The Chinese, who are masters at reverse engineering, will likely need just one peek:
If the Chinese are allowed to see the wreckage, it may not be the first time the Chinese military was given an opportunity to benefit technologically from America's misfortune. In 1999 an American stealth F-117 Nighthawk bomber was shot down in Serbia, the wreckage of which was reportedly passed along to the Chinese.
More than a decade later, in January of this year, China's first stealth fighter, the J-20, took a test flight that caught international attention and sparked a debate over whether China had developed the stealth-capabilities based on what they learned from the downed Nighthawk. Balkan military officials told The Associated Press the Chinese likely based their designs on the American plane, but Chinese officials denied the allegation in their state-run newspaper, The Global Times.
Look for this to be a talking point during upcoming teleprompter conferences, with the variable being whether the US pushes Pakistan hard on this, and thus alienates it further into China's camp, or moderates the recently aggressive tone somewhat.
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HAHAHAHA! PRICELESS!
What - they have a sudden interest in L.O. TAIL ROTOR designs? (News to China: That's all that was left after intentional destruction of this craft ...)
L.O -> Low Observable (stealth)
That chopper wasn't left behind by accident.
I'm pretty sure there's a hidden agenda with all this.
Otherwise a single missile would have cleaned the place.
You can say whatever you want about American, BUT IF THEY WANT TO BLOW SOMETHING UP THEY BLOW IT UP IN STYLE!
The had drones with hellfires flying over when they did the attack. Don't you think they'd blown it if it wasn't supposed to be found?
And gently "asking" it back? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!
That chopper wasn't left behind by accident.
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"An accident left the chopper behind"
There; fixed your logic for you ..
(with the main body of the craft 'blown up' by our forces)
Sudden Debt got it right the first time. They should be investigating who got the payoff to have the "mechanical failure" at just the right moment.
Maybe the same guy who dropped the video link for 25 minutes during the take down of the impersonator of OBL.
;-)
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/9635480
If the compound is still standing...what went boom?
Fuck Pakistan and fuck China...and fuck Amerika™ for hollowing itself out
if you did it to yourself you'd show them the way...like Hemingway...did.
Odds are it was shot down. Otherwise they would have bene more thorough about "cleansing" the area.
Odds are it was shot down.
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Looked to me like they (the chopper) were setting down/coing down right on top of that wall ... notice how the tail section is sitting ...
Question? In the event of tail landing on the wall, Can the crew survive inside the cockpit? engine running full power, rotter spinning full rpm?
the entire chopper story smells like bs to me, perhaps to cover the fact that the entire osama story is bs... layer upon layer of lies.
I agree.
yup, agreed. The chopper was there for a reason and I would think the mission was planned before the birth certificate issue blew up. Like you say, layer upon layer of bullshit.
It is called technology transfer, we wouldn't want the third world war to be over to quickley now would we...
I read that the 'destruction' was flawed, leaving too much in tact on the ground.
Pictures????!!!!!!
IIRC the vid presented shows 'licking flames' where the main bulk of the wreckage was ...
I believe the tail section fell on the other side of a wall, so they couldn't get at it from the ground. Missiles were probably out of the question given the circumstances.
That's what I said - just a few posts above ...they set down on the wall (in all likelyhood)
My understanding was that it crashed into the compound's wall, causing the tail section to fall outside the compound. That would easily explain why it was left unmarked by any signs of fire or explosion. They couldn't get to it.
The entire mission was a catastrophic failure. The mission purpose was to remove "Osama bin Laden" and witnessed. The helicopter crush made it impossible since there were not enough room inside the remaining helicopters.
Consequently,
- Numerous witnesses had to be slaughtered. It became a mafia hit instead of a military operation.
- The numerous "family members" also were left behind creating a big headache of how to handle them
- Without the left helicopter, there would not be any publicity about the mission itself sparing the Pakistani puppet government from the humiliation and insults
- Finally, the latest US stealth technology will end up in Chinese hands greatly improving their future military capabilities
Yes, dear Obama bin Laden, you fucked up America one more time. But don't worry, American imbeciles are proud of having you as their president.
Nice summary. Although, the sense I get from the pictures is that it is some kind of conversion kit and not a full on stealth unit.
caco,
Sooner you will see chinese chopper flying with invisible tail.
Pakistani officals are corrupt, so whoever will bid more will get the helicopter
Is this somehow different from officials in other countries?
Why JUNK unky?.
It's TRUE.
prez BJ Lewinsky give them silent screw sub technology and 0bummer gives them a viable sealth shell.
does anyone actually believe these things are accidents??
Wasn't it missile systems through Loral?
The upside is that if the Chinesees get it they can make it cheaper there and sell it to the US. But what would the industrial military complex do then?
Go to plan "B." Make billions torturing the American people with TSA / Dept of "Father"land Security.
Win-Win!
I think the whole world, including true American patriots, should align with China and forge an alliance to get rid of the nasty cancerous US of A before it kills us all!
What time do you self-immolate?
Same time as the Tunisian fella.
The preferred nomenclature is Ulcered Sphincter of Asserica.
HOW DID I MISS THIS COMMENT!
comic gold.
So does the American government. Clinton sold missle secrets to the Chinese right? How difficult is the leap to see that the chopper was left there intentionally in return for less pressure on our monetary policy? On the world level i dont think "money" is the only currency, technology is a great barter tool.
A conspiracy, wrapped in a riddle, surrounded by a conundrum.
It seems like a new "axis" is forming. Russia, China, India, Iran, Syria, and now Pakistan.
Another amalgamation by the world elites. Divide et impera. It will be dissolved and reconsituted in some other conflict to maintain the fear just as it has been throughout human history.
You are no doubt correct. The elite hold no sense of blind nationalism or allegiance to any one nation or the corresponding rectangular piece of cloth. "Patriotism" and "nationalism" are implements of control, to be used for purposes of manipulating mass opinion.
This is why i love ZH. So many people with their eyes open.
Namaste
from aviationweek :
"The Seals appear to have destroyed almost all of the airframe that landed inside the compound, but part of the helicopter’s tail landed outside the wall and escaped demolition during the roughly 40-min. ground operation.
The public photos show that the destroyed Black Hawk’s tail features stealth-configured shapes on the boom and the tail-rotor hub fairings, swept stabilizers and a “dishpan” cover over a five- or six-blade tail rotor. It has a silver-loaded infrared (IR) suppression finish similar to that seen on the Bell-Boeing V-22 Osprey.
Stealth enhancements for rotorcraft are not new and were applied extensively to the Boeing/Sikorsky RAH-66 Comanche, canceled in 2004. Compared with fixed-wing stealth, more emphasis is usually placed on noise and IR signatures."
Well, no wonder it crashed with that kind of flawed engineering. Probably wasn't even shot down.
silver...kills bacteria, bankers, vampires, AND radar reflections.
Investors too.
"...silver-loaded infrared (IR) suppression finish..."
Now THAT'S why the thing failed! Should have been plastered with FRNs instead!!
Within the parametrics of the well disproven, more aptly described as yet to be rigorously tested and confirmed Efficient Capital Market Hypothesis (which is why it's referred to as a fucking Hypothesis, as nothing has been proven other than just being somewhat even less than anecdotal bullshit, just like the Keynesian multiplier being any number, pick a number greater than 0, Not) it would be interesting to establish a correlation between silver prices and stealth helicopter crashes.
Ergo (likewise within the framework of at best anecdotal evidence established as a sample set of one event which is more rigorous than that for the ECMH) we can conclude that the helicopter crashed because the price of silver crashed. Further, employing in this case exceedingly faulty Syllogistic Logic, given that silver crashed because JPM slammed the market (manipulation in the dark ages which was treated in a manner similar to debasement of currency, with the accused nailed to crosses along the Appian Way) then JPM's actions were responsible for the crash of the helicopter and thus, by extension should be construed as treasonous.
And thus, silver manipulators should be exported to Italy to be crucified along the Appian Way for the beneficial education of the starving, oppressed sheeple to enjoy during prime time newscasts, furthering the dominant social theme of not fucking with the elite's monetary system.
Which further opens the question to Benny and the Red's engagement in the conspiracy, the truth of which could only be found subsequent to the recently now apparently legal and socially acceptable application of the newest Olympic sport of water-boarding.
Have I missed anything?
maybe it was left as payment to pakistan
And we thought a land invasion was unlikely.......
We will soon see Chinese "stealth" helicopter with russian engines. LOL.
Shrug. By the time they reverse engineer it, and develop their own a decade will have passed and we will have something new.
The Chicoms will use lead based paint on their copy ... do not allow children to chew this aircraft.
Bet the Chinese are ROR (Raughing Out Roud) over this one
I don't see a problem with this. After all, they paid for it.
j0nx that thar is funnniieeeeeee (because it's true)!
Holy shit that's funny!
LMFAO!
Oh shit, now how do you argue against that!?!
Well, technically they paid for 30% of it. The Fed is still buying 70% of US debt.
Say goodbye to some of the secrets of the RAH-66 Comanche....
And they will have a reverse-engineered prototype taxiing on the runway, piloted by an OBL lookalike.
I bet their new heli is stocked with Huawei gear (y'know - the stuff they copied from Cisco).
Luckily they didn't left any USD at the site, else the Chinese would copy more of that shit in addition to the FED printing
queue drone strike in 3, 2, 1...
Bet the military is now wondering if it was really worth capturing the old guy just so Obambi could get his "hero" moment.
The US has enough forces in the area to march in there and reclaim our property. I do not understand what is stop the US from protecting our interests, I certainly hope it is not that shrill Hilliary.
How do you think we bribed the pakistani government to let us do the operation? [why do you think they stuffed him amid all the military personnel and academy?]
Thanks for bringing this up. Pakistan government was already bribed to run this drama. If this is done to make an excuse to exit Afghanistan, not bad ( to save American face ). Kerry is going to pay a bit more for extra inconvenience. (Chopper fell down) not in the original script.
just_looking, you are an idiot.
America has no ground forces in Pakistan. Now, you want to start a ground war on the Pakistani territory? Apparently, you leaned nothing from Vietnam, Iraq, and Afghanistan. Do you know that Pakistan is 10 times as big as Afghanistan?Going to Pakistan will require at least 1,000,000 US ground troops.
I dunno. Rummy said it would only take 125K to subdue Iraq. And look how well that turned out.
Won't be the last time we'll listen to a rummy.
Difficult to believe that the Klintonistas had not already provided this via Loral or some other defense agency.
can you saw predator drone?
Man, I can't wait for the banksters to send you off to kill the Chinese. That would be very interesting.
Beats having to send over a coolie engineer on an H1-B to steal secrets on the job.
Good. Now we just need to crash an aircraft carrier, a few stealth bombers and drop a few boxes of top secret weaponry and we'll have ourselves and interesting war in about 10 years.
Doesnt make sense. The low risk option was to bomb the compound - destroy it. Obama chose the raid (apparently) instead. When a top secret helicopter goes down, all they do is toss a few grenades? With all the the military standing by, why didnt they just radio in a drone attack on the compound it blow it up afterward? Get rid of all evidence including the compound. At that point they wernt concerned with hurting pakistans feelings. Doesnt make sense. again.
Maybe the "leave behind" was planned. Thanks George Kastanza!
When a top secret helicopter goes down, al...
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Another 'fact challenged' ill-informed poster; did you clowns NOTICE that only the tail section remained?
Oh brother ...
"Oh noes! The only chopper we have that is stealth is TOP SECRET .. THEREFORE WE CAN"T USE IT!!!! "
Defies logic ...
Are you serious? Look up Libya raid, F117, Regan, too top secret to use. I didnt say we shouldnt use it, rather whould have done a better job of blowing it up. What's your deal anyway?
"Oh noes! The only aircraft we have that is stealth is TOP SECRET .. THEREFORE WE CAN"T USE IT!!!! "
Again, defies logic ...
Since you like to spout off your logic and are too lazy to research, Reagan decided not to use the top secret F117 stelth fighters in the Libya raid since it would reveal our capability to the russians. I beleive two airman died in the F111 used as an alternative. Hows your logic?
"Oh noes! We won't use only aircraft we have that is stealth is TOP SECRET .. THEREFORE WE CAN"T USE IT!!!! "
Defied logic (past tense)
troll. Im done.
You tried.
WII: U.S. initial consideration of the use of the Thompson Sub-Machine gun.
You lose..
Which they could have picked up at any Sears Roebuck or mail ordered for under $200 ten years before WWII even started.
Why investigate anything? Israel will be glad to sell them any plans or information they need, just like they do with the rest of our technology!
Maybe because they developed "your" technology it in the first place?
Not sure if Stepford Wife is the right metaphor. Fembot maybe?
double post
Surely the U.S. military unit involved in the raid would have been given instructions to destroy the chopper before extraction. Pro-conspiracy theory: antagonise the Pakistanis under the assumption that they would make this kind of move. U.S. citizens! Not only does Pakistan support anti-U.S. terrorists, but it also passes military secrets on to our the Chinese (who stole all your jobs!). Hello Casus Belli. Or am I being too cynical?
Oooops! Someone forgot to blow the copter correctly.
DEVGRU guys are intelligent, resourceful, and confident so when they make a mistake as critical as this I immediately think a supporting team or those fat ass bureaucrats f'd it up somehow.
If China was smart, assuming I'm smarter than than the Chinese gov. :/, they would simply expose blatant lies with substantial proof by indirectly leaking said legit proof online. Once it's viral, we, US citizens would do the dirty work for them by overthrowing our own gov. Wishful thinking at best. If Obama was born in Kenya most people wouldn't care anyway, if 911 was an inside job, I bet it could be spun in a positive light as long as the stock market goes up and my 401k and pension is ok I don't care about any of it. Right?
http://uruknet.info/index.php?p=m65575&hd=&size=1&l=e Confessions Of A Wall St. Nihilist by Mark Ames
Heard it here first folks, from Henry Kissinger Jr. himself. Or do I prefer Mr. Brzezinski?
Oooops! Someone forgot to blow the copter correctly.
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Conjecture based on ONLY the tail section remaining ...
NEVER MINDING the bulk of the platform was rendered inert ...
White phosphorus is an amazing chemical. Burns at around 5,000 degrees fahrenheit. There shouldn't be anything left of the aircraft at all.
Sell the technology to a nearby neighbor with a massive population, authoritarian tendences, a noted hunger for natural resources, imperialist ambitions, and which is within easy airstrike distance?
Sounds like a good idea to me. What could possibly go wrong?
Several times at my day job we have gotten asked by research facilities out of Singapore whether/how quickly the software I develop can compute the rcs of a geometry that looks suspiciously like a jet engine inlet. I'm skeptical that the interested party is actually Singapore or its air force since they seem to have a lot of hand-me-down aircraft.
Senator John Kerry will travel to Pakistan in coming days to put relations "on the right track" after the killing of Osama bin Laden.But he is likely to face fury from the army over what it sees as a breach of trust.
SO let me get this straight, Pakistan helps hide OBL for over 5 years, has recieved over $20b in foreign aid from the US in the last 10 years, and the US is the party trying to make nice?
'Put relations on track' probably means let them know who's boss.
Well, if that is the case, why would they send over John Kerry?
I wouldn't consider having Senator Turayzuh Heinz looking down his nose at me making nice.
From the photos. Looks like half the kids in the neighborhood have most of the loose parts.
Pakistan children to build the first ever defender of the universe? :)
better check Ebay dot pakistan :)
They already have the W-88 H-bomb tech, the F117 Stealth Fighter tech, submarine propeller anticavitation tech and Callaway Big Bertha tech
Stealth technology is very simple.
There's nothing magical about it.
It's a combination of geometry and EM-wave absorbing thinfilm surface paint.
First the geometry will disperse the incoming EM radar wave into all angles except the one it was coming from.
Using the law of reflection alpha_in = alpha_out.
Secondly you have the part of the amplitude that is not reflected but refracted into the upper coating layer. (Fresnel equations)
That part has to be absorbed to almost 100 %.
Absorption of EM waves is achieved by:
1. Creating destructive interference with a grid-like atomic structure of the material in the coating, i.e. with delta_phi = (2n+1)*lambda/2 (Huygens' interference)
or with a thinfilm stack (interference with thin layers, principle of bloomed glasses)
2. True absorption,i.e. making electrons in the outer shells of atoms in the material go into an excited state or making them oscillate, so the whole atomic grid starts to oscillate, which is commonly known as raising its temperature. (Harmonic oscillation in the electric field E_, principle of the microwave oven)
This temperature is then of course creating infrared EM-radiation, but in a much lower spatial density and spatial directedness, which thus cannot be detected by the radar-antenna's receiver.
A-hahahahaha !
Now the secret is in the material and its composition and atomic structure.
The material also has to ba a good conductor of heat to quickly transport and dissipate the coupled in EM-energy/heat to the opposite side of the stealth plane/helicopter/tank.
So you need a good heat conductor AND also needs to be a good reflector?
Man, that's really hard. I'm sure that's why it's top secret technology!
Gold?
I responded with 'gold' for humor's sake but IIRC, in some thermopane windows gold vapor is deposited on the interior surface, visual light passes through and upon reflection from interior surfaces the energy is reduced to IR which is less able to pass through gold vapor film, thus increasing the efficiency of the window.
This is all just Theater of the Absurd. Sit back and watch. When you go to the movies do you talk back to the screen ?
"Oh no you stupid Hobbits, don't take the shortcut through Moria !"
+++++
Yes. At least until the zit-faced teenage theater attendant asks me to leave because I am disturbing the other customers.
lmao, big deal
Okay...
Now Team Obama springs into action!
The President has appointed a blue ribbon bi-partisan panel to study his options. Joe Biden is in charge. Obama will carefully weigh both sides of the panel's conclusions, then take some more time to decide what to do.
Meanwhile JSOC has already built a mock-up of the helicopter section and is rehearsing SEAL raids to get the part back!
Hey, here's an idea, Pakistan wants to blow up the compound, why not just send in a drone attack and finish off what the SEALs were unable to do...
Guys we allready have something better, I hate to say it , missions like this all are expendable.
In the video GS claims that we used an EMP attack to knock out electricity and cell phones and then says that they cam right back on afterthe attack. EMP would destroy the infrastructure not interrupt it.
Sausagemaker
The power on the Black hawk was a S E G , Searl effect generator, one of the effects of using it is interference with electrical devices , however for this engine to still (they fixed the problem)cause problems it must of malfunctioned.
I'm sure there was a variant of a 135 (707 airframe) loitering around with a very long antennae wire out the back during this op.
Here is what some Pakistani's are saying in Abbotabad:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJduLyB_yO4&feature=player_embedded
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lhxl7CxnE5g&feature=player_embedded
Is it my player or does the sound cut out on the last few seconds of the second video? I'm interested with what the reporter's closing narrative contains.
BITCHEZ..!!!!.........wait we are the bitchez....f@ck me....!
We've done everything in our power over the last 30 years to educate the Chinese in technology, banking, economics and almost everything else you can think of. From a strictly raw and blunt perspective, we've set the stage for what will play out in about 50 years time.
I imagine in 400 years from now, when history books are being written in Mandarin, that the western world will be laughed at because of its false illusion that pursuing trade and economics at the expense of everything else (hint: arming one's enemy), that it resulted in its external downfall (China) and internal collapse (Wall St. Greed).
It would do well for the American educational system (not just the US military schools) to read Sun Tzu's, Art of War and Lao Tzu's, Tao Te Ching to get a glimpse of what we are going to face.
The Chinese are bound by the laws of physics just like everyone else.
There's nothing magical about them.
When the planet's resources are used up, they will perish too.
But right before the collapse, China will have an economic boom: China will be the largest producer of Soylent Green.
Of which we will be the largest importer. So much for the trade balance.
On the one hand we have the global communist banking class wanting to push the uppity US middle class back into the slave class and on the other hand we have the Chinese eating it up and looking to take every advantage of the Westerners who think they are running the world.
... or are the Westerners in fact running the world.
one ant was complaining to a fellow ant about the other ants...then the kid with the magnifying glass came running...
welcome to the zoo
You have faithfully described the Hegelian Dialect.
So what's the big deal? The suspected mass murdering, communist William Jefferson Clinton gave China stealth technology in the 90s.
Sure, they build it Russian style currently, with a sledge hammer and tree saw and need to understand the finer points.
If you are going to credibly compete in WWIII, ya need the tools of the time.
Don't worry we have access to even more sophisticated technology if we choose to use it.
www.youtube.com/watch?v=mUYfixx7zo8
@john39
The way I see it, Osama gets 72 virgins and Obama promises US 72 "versions" of the story.
Thats what it looks like -
http://www.wired.com/images_blogs/dangerroom/2011/05/mh-x3.jpg
Welcome to San Jose, we have white jet airplane flyes silently with long white tail almost daily upon our sky, can they do this somewhere else? say Sierra Mountain.
Other than the paint and some destroyed electronics, there's nothing different about that helicopter as compared to a regular Blackhawk.
fucking yanks....taking that reverse engineering to the next level wit those found alien space ships they found....next they will be building people and getting them to say anything they want...maybe even make them president...who knows
So much for it being "Stealth"
Stealth my arse. Reminds me of all the cross-eyed US calvary officers in Vietnam going on about sneaking up on the Vietcong (Vietmin) on Hueys. Choppers are too fucking loud to sneak up on anyone unless the enemy is deaf and blind.
I remember the last time they investigated some of our stealth technology during the Monicagate war on Serbia a 500LB bomb flew into their Belgrade embassy where the wreckage was stored, it took a few years for the news to leak out that our "accidental" bombing might not have been accidental afterall. http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2011/01/chinas-j20-stealth-fighter-made...
Beware of stealth wreckage, it may be full of bugs for future targets, it would be a waste to not plant bugs all over it.
I think they're looking for silver. But it's less of interest to china as now silver falls again. They'll leave the tit bits to the Taliban.
Fuck Pakistan and China. Stregthen ties with India.