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China-Japan Tensions Escalate, As China Breaks Off High Level Contacts, Japanese Flag Burned In Protest

Tyler Durden's picture


On the anniversary of the 1931 Japanese invasion of China, tensions between the world's second and third largest economies are escalating. The Associated Press reports that late Sunday, China broke off high-level government contacts with Japan "over the extended detention of a fishing boat captain arrested near disputed islands. The rare move pushed already tense relations to a new low, and showed China's willingness to play hardball with its Asian rival on issues of territorial integrity." The latest straw on the camel's back was the detention of a Chinese fishing boat and its captain, after it hit two Japanese Coast Guard boats in the East China Sea, a territory claimed by both countries, as previously reported by Zero Hedge.Furthermore, " the captain's detention for further questioning — pending a decision
about whether to press charges — has inflamed ever-present anti-Japanese
sentiment in China." China reaction has been swift and merciless, proving just great the ego of the now second largest economy, and largest holder of US debt, has become: "Beijing has suspended ministerial and provincial-level contacts,
halted talks on aviation issues and postponed a meeting to discuss
coal." Also, attached pictures of Japanese flag burning can not instill much confidence in Sino-Japanese relations stabilizing any time soon.

More from AP:

"If Japan acts willfully, making mistake after mistake, China will take strong countermeasures, and all the consequences will be borne by the Japanese side," Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Ma Zhaoxu said in a statement.

Takeshi Matsunaga, a spokesman for Japan's Foreign Ministry, said the reported measures were unilateral.

"We ask China to respond calmly so as not to escalate the problem further," he said.

The move raises questions about cooperation between China and Japan at international forums such as this week's summit in New York on United Nations goals to fight poverty, which Chinese Premier Wen Jiabao and Japanese Prime Minister Naoto Kan are attending.

It also throws into doubt whether China's President Hu Jintao will attend the annual summit of Asia-Pacific Economic Cooperation forum leaders to be held in Yokohama, Japan, in November. Leaders of the two countries were also due to attend a G-20 summit in Seoul the same month.

This is the lowest bilateral relations have fallen to since they were strained under former Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi, whose repeated visits to a war shrine in Japan during his 2001-2006 term angered China.

The two countries halted ministerial-level defense talks for three years from 2003. But even in those tense times, Japan's foreign minister visited China in 2004 and met Wen.

China's decision to cut high-level contacts appears to reflect a worry about losing face in front of the Chinese public which might trigger a nationalistic backlash against the government if it appears weak or unable to protect the country's sovereignty.

Already, the number of Chinese tourists visiting Japan has plunged because of the dispute, CCTV said. On Friday, a Beijing-based food company announced it would cancel a planned group tour to Japan for 10,000 people to reward employees, their families and business partners.

Beijing made the announcements shortly after a Japanese court approved a 10-day extension of captain Zhan Qixiong's detention.

"His detention was extended for further questioning. He will be held until Sept. 29," an official at the Naha Public Prosecutor's Office in Okinawa, southern Japan, said on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to speak to the media.

Under Japanese law, prosecutors can hold a suspect for up to 20 days while deciding whether to file formal criminal charges. The first 10-day detention period ended Sunday.

And one can be absolutely certain, that a direct result of this action will be the massive gobbling up of even more JGBs in an attempt by the PBoC to once again streghten the yen, as Central Bank warfare escalates, forcing the Bank of Japan to intervene yet again in the FX market, further angering Europe, whose currency has surged by over 10% in the past week, and making life for investors on either side of the Atlantic and Pacific ever more unpredictable, in a landscape in which the biggest marginal buyers (and sellers) of securities are increasingly the central banks themselves. The only winner out of this: the US Treasury department which buys even more time to proceed with a failed Keynesian policy of pereptually debt-funded, deficit creation.


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Sun, 09/19/2010 - 16:41 | 590910 traderjoe
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Interesting times, m'fers!

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 01:20 | 591440 caconhma
caconhma's picture

It is the time for Japan to understand the obvious

  • Japan cannot any more rely on America for its safety, security, and prosperity
  • Only its own nuclear capabilities can keep Japan safe and secure
Sun, 09/19/2010 - 16:42 | 590911 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

The Chinese often whip up a little nationalism when the leadership is focussing on other issues that may be difficult to spin, at present the question of RMB revaluation that will be pressed at the G20 in Seoul.

Maybe they are beginning to feel hemmed in by their own economic policies.

Down the road a ways this may heat up, but for now it is smoke and mirrors.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:44 | 591190 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:02 | 591232 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

You said it.  This side show is to distract the roiling masses from food and energy inflation ON FIRE RIGHT NOW in China.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:30 | 590920 shinola
shinola's picture

Hmmm,  could "stirring the pot" of  long-held animosities between Japan & China work to the advantage of the USA?


How about India & Pakistan?


Interesting times indeed.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:10 | 590933 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

Does China have any friends left?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:25 | 590950 Shameful
Shameful's picture

In the world of geo-politics there is no such things as friends. There are temporary allies, dupes, patsies, victims, rivals, puppets, and enemies, no friends.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:54 | 590983 mikla
mikla's picture


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 18:16 | 591002 three chord sloth
three chord sloth's picture

True 'nuff!

Allow me to rephrase it... Does anyone gain more than they lose from dealing with China today?

North Korea? Maybe Australia with her mineral sales? Anyone else..?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:32 | 591381 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

Some African countries (temporarily)?

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 07:26 | 591558 Justibone
Justibone's picture

I would classify North Korea as a Chinese "client".  A troublesome client, though.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 12:10 | 592171 Kobe Beef
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good question!

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:51 | 590979 francismarion
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Did they ever?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:45 | 591194 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

yep.  Leo ;-)

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:12 | 590935 Horatio Beanblower
Horatio Beanblower's picture

The Chinese and Japanese governments need to stay out of television studios -

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:31 | 590951 Dismal Scientist
Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:14 | 590937 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Might be a great time to find out where Yamashita's gold really is (or was).  What about that Black Eagle Trust?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:16 | 591364 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I thought the the Ferdinand Marcos family has it?  I read somewhere that there was a judgment of some sort against Imelda regarding part of that.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:15 | 590938 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Why didn't the media cunts think about blending the Japanese flag burning with the Florida Koran burning story?

Never mind, we borrow money from Japan. Mum is the word. LOL

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:17 | 590942 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

And yet nothing about Scurvy dogs boarding a mateys boat.

Fuck, what better topic to receive the International Talk like a Pirate day treatment?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:22 | 590948 bugs_
bugs_'s picture

What is the penalty for burning a Chinese flag?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:32 | 590959 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Expect the UN to be on this case immediately. Humanitarian crisis. NGO's will hit the land lines for money donation's.

30% GP margins in the name of humanitity effords.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 18:52 | 591050 Jonathan E
Jonathan E's picture


Yes the media rarely lets a geo-political skirmish go without some flag burning piccies.

"Excuse me sir - associated press, would you kindly burn this for me while I take a few snaps."

The horror.


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:24 | 590949 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Chuck Fina.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:28 | 590953 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Nice.  This does not overly surprise me, the Chinese have a deep seated hate/fear of Japan.  Read a while back that one general in China was pushing for more fitness training for the children because he was worried about Japanese children being more fit, and that giving them an edge in any potential conflict.  Totally ignoring the fact that Japan is a demographic nightmare, sure most places are but China is blazing the trail.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:35 | 590962 bankonzhongguo
bankonzhongguo's picture

Talk to someone from Nanjing.  The Chinese government actually must work to keep nationalism down.  Some might remember the US bombing the Chinese consulate in Serbia (by accident?).  The PAP rolled up in front of the US Embassy in Beijing and dropped off a couple trucks worth of river stones.  Just big enough to fit in a hand.  Well, you know the rest of the story.  Everything in China was hit; riots, arson.  Just wait until your inventory disappears or that precious WOFE has its accounts frozen because Little Timmy Geithner pouts to the G-20.  The Pacific is a large body of water.

Chinese power and population up.  Japanese power and population down. 

Payback will be a bee-atch.  And we aren't ten years into the new century.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 18:39 | 591040 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

for Japan, chickens are coming home to roost.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:46 | 591196 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

The protests were orchestrated by the Chinese government when the Chinese consulate in Serbia was bombed. The majority of the protesters were university students actually. Orders were given that a bit violence was allowed.  My friend was there in Beijing then.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 05:36 | 591527 StychoKiller
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The Chinese Govt. gets some propaganda, the students get to perform some street theater mayhem -- everybody wins!

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 17:38 | 590968 Pillage
Pillage's picture

duke it out, burn burn burn! rawr

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 18:06 | 590989 Jendrzejczyk
Jendrzejczyk's picture

Not enough to freak out about going on in the world already? Now this to add to the flock of Black Swans.

edit: Or should that be a wedge/bevy (definitely not gaggle).

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:42 | 591187 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:37 | 591385 Bolweevil
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Mon, 09/20/2010 - 05:37 | 591528 StychoKiller
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Sun, 09/19/2010 - 18:23 | 591013 JackES
JackES's picture

Just nuke Jap already.

stop BS talking.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:27 | 591161 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Just nuke Jap already.

stop BS talking."


You may already know that I am Jewish, but did you know my wife is a Japanese citizen?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:54 | 591217 JackES
JackES's picture


Ask her get out of Japan.

There's a reason why Japan is the only country being nuked.


Since you are Jew, do you like to live in Germany?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:23 | 591261 Hulk
Hulk's picture


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 22:17 | 591310 nmewn
nmewn's picture


Mon, 09/20/2010 - 02:09 | 591447 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Ask her get out of Japan."

Thank you for your concern, JackES, but my wife lives here in the United States.


"Since you are Jew, do you like to live in Germany?"

I live in the United States, JackES, where do you live?



"There's a reason why Japan is the only country being nuked."

This is the part of your post that I find most interesting, JackES.  Why do you think Japan should be "nuked?" 


The musings of Mr. JackES.  Enjoy. 



EDIT:  I just took a moment to look at a previous comment from JackES.  I went back to his very first post on ZH, and this is what he wrote:

by JackES
on Sun, 02/07/2010 - 21:54


If you are in charge of China's huge foreign exchange reserves, what can you do about it?

And, what can you do about those US debts?

I guess there's no good answers



Hey, Jack, what's with the "dumbed down" writing style?  Grow up, little man.





Mon, 09/20/2010 - 14:20 | 591472 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

deleted - waste of energy.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:34 | 591382 merehuman
merehuman's picture

VI , i thought you were a southern woman! Go figure.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 01:19 | 591441 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

a real peach.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 07:51 | 591578 trav7777
trav7777's picture

so what?

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 14:24 | 591849 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

Are you asking me?  If it was the "trader" comment, no harm intended. I come here to listen and learn from the traders.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 18:24 | 591016 purple
purple's picture

Welcome to the 'Asian Century'.


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 18:24 | 591017 purple
purple's picture

Somewhere Jim Rogers is weeping.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 19:14 | 591075 Anarchist
Anarchist's picture

Weeping? Jim chose the winning hand.

Japan and its enabler the US will pay for the millions of Chinese who died due to western interference. Most Americans have no clue the US backed Japan's invasion and occupation of Korea, Vietnam and China. Japan should know any future war will use genetic weapons. A bug does not care if is killing a Chinese or Japanese.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 19:43 | 591111 Mr pain
Mr pain's picture

Wrong - US embargoed oil and steel from Japan because of this and this is why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:20 | 591149 Anarchist
Anarchist's picture

Wrong? You havent a clue about the 50 years prior to Pearl Harbor. Read Theodore Roosevelt's letters to his son Kermit. They outline the help the US gave to the Japanese. Also read the new book by James Bradley. Japan and the US were very close allies almost up to the bombing of Pearl Harbor. The blood of millions of Asians is on the hands of the US, England, France and the Dutch.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:39 | 591166 suteibu
suteibu's picture

+ the Japanese debt in yen.  Japan has been under the control of the US since the black ships showed up.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:50 | 591205 chindit13
chindit13's picture

suteibu, I know you are a bit of an expert on Japan, but I have to respectfully disagree.  For a number of years, Japan and the US have had a good and nearly equal relationship.  Obama has dropped the ball, much to the chagrin (I think) of SecState Clinton.  The hard work of Ambassadors Mondale, Armacost, Howard Baker and Tom Schieffer is going for naught.  I think that Japan is a bit befuddled by this, and coupled with their shame over being usurped economically by China, Japan's confidence is at a multi-decade low.  A Japan without confidence becomes dangerous, to itself and to its neighbors.  Fortunately Kan won over Ozawa, but all that has done is buy time, for Asia I mean.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:15 | 591362 suteibu
suteibu's picture

In 1985, the Japanese sought to raise interest rates to cool down their economy.  The US threatened trade restrictions if they followed through.  The result was the Plaza Accord that strengthened the yen for the benefit of the US balance of trade.  It didn't take long for the asset bubble in Japan to pop and Japan has been struggling since.  So, what did the US do to help their only ally in East Asia?  They abandoned Japan and moved on to the cheap-labor China. 

Once, the words "Made in Japan" was the symbol of cheap goods.  The Japanese were laughed at for their work ethic and the quailty of their goods.  They developed into a high-tech machine and changed the meaning of those words.  So much so, that the US was afraid that Japan was going to overtake the US economy in the 80s.  The Plaza Accord took care of that.

As for Kan, he and Obama are soulmates.  He is the globalists dream.  More than a few Japanese wanted Ozawa because he wanted a "more equal" relationship with the US.  Those words have meaning there as a symbol for what some see as a US shadow hanging over Japan. 

Consider the Japan/China relationship.  Japan is not free to negotiate directly with China on most things because China understands that the US must be considered in all talks, whether they are involved in the negotiation or not.

Japan is in a position now where the the US and China both use Japan as a surrogate for actions against the other.  You don't think that nationalism was all the fishing boat incident was all about do you?  It couldn't have anything to do with the noise coming from Washington about the yuan and some trade issues.  At the same time, the Futenma base issue that the US refuses to bend on, even though most Japanese are tired of the Marines on Okinawa, is all about sending a message to China that the US is still the big dog in Asia and has little to do with Japanese security.

The feeling among many in Japan (the average Japanese, not the US educated political class) is that the US relationship benefits the US much more than it benefits Japan.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 07:08 | 591551 fajensen
fajensen's picture

The feeling among many in Japan ..... is that the US relationship benefits the US much more than it benefits Japan.

Politely expressed - On The Street, the US relationship is percieved as infecting the country with a nasty case of genital warts: The US millitary bases. It is a very good idea not to be percieved as American when travlelling there - not that there is any risk, it's just that people will literally run away to avoid the embarassment of talking to you; they think every American is either a missionary for some crazy  christian sect or a soldier on leave about to rape some school girls.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 07:53 | 591581 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Of course...the white people are ALWAYS to blame, for everything.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:55 | 591220 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

More pain for Mr. Pain--

"US embargoed oil and steel from Japan..."

yes, did, and ???

"and this is why Japan attacked Pearl Harbor."

Dude, Yamamoto was in staff conferences on the subject (just as was Nimitz at Newport at the same time) on the very subject.  Embargo had nothing to do with the attack. (Attack should have been vs. the oil tanks vs. the fleet--and, well, the carriers were on exercise.)

- Ned

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 22:40 | 591329 purple
purple's picture

Why ? Because an Asia at war means no money to be made. And a bunch of mercantilist nations will never be able to have a cooperative existence without the 7th Fleet keeping order. As the US empire declines, Asian nationalist rivalries will increase - by a lot. They don't like each other.


As a smart guy, Jim Rogers knows this - or should.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 19:19 | 591082 tom a taxpayer
Sun, 09/19/2010 - 19:49 | 591121 Anarchist
Anarchist's picture

The older native Tawainese remember that the Nationalist Chinese Army with the help of the US executed 100,000 of their ethnic brethren so that they could steal all their wealth and eliminate them as a future political rival. The remnants the Nationalist Chinese Army in western China retreated into Burma and Laos and still run the heroin trade in southeast Asia. Taiwan and the US continue to support these people and launder their ill gotten gains.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:26 | 591160 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Call me wacky here...but I'm getting a sense you don't like Americans.

A 100,000 pales in comparison to what Mao did...40 to 70 MILLION of his own people...not enemies...not rivals...just some little dork in a bad suit with a massively paranoid communist ego complex.

Just like Stalin, they both had the same ideology and apparently the same suit tailor.


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:38 | 591180 suteibu
suteibu's picture

China had a long history of oppression by the West.  When promised that he would rid China of the West, many people followed Mao against the US backed Chaing Kai-shek.

This isn't anti-American sentiment.  Read about the Opium wars, the Boxer Rebellion, and the end of dynastic China.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:17 | 591255 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I know all about it.

Have you ever heard of the Flying Tigers? I wonder what the hell they were doing there? They weren't British or Dutch! They were American, fighting a common enemy.

The only colony in China I'm aware of was British Hong Kong. America is not Britain.

I'm getting a little sick & tired of the bash America first bullshit of revisionist history being spouted by know nothing leftwing anarchist's living in mommy's basement.

"When promised that he would rid China of the West, many people followed Mao against the US backed Chaing Kai-shek."

Well he certainly did didn't he. And then he proceeded to slaughter his own people. I wonder if all those family members knew then what they know now they would have made the same choice? The majority probably have no comprehension of what happened even to this day with the media suppression still in force in China.

Chaing Kai-shek had fought and defeated feudal warlords & allied communists and was trying to bring China out from under that crap system when all hell broke loose with WWII. China is still wandering in the wilderness of half assed freedom to this very day.

Your not really defending communism here are you?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:34 | 591274 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

junked you

the flying tigers were paid mercenaries.  thats all - and they were flying american planes. 

You should read "The Soong Dynasty"  by Sterling Seagrave  and "In Search of a Modern China" .

The Nationalist were selling medical supplies for guns to the japanese.  Who's side were they on.  It is estimated that the majority of american aid to the nationalist was stolen and sold on the black market.  The chinese might be more "self interested" than americans

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 22:14 | 591307 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Don't care about junks.

"the flying tigers were paid mercenaries."

Yes they were...and fighting what country? They were fighting the aggressor country weren't they?

"The Nationalist were selling medical supplies for guns to the japanese."

If you have a gun pointed in my general direction what is more important at the time for me...a band aid or a gun?

I always marvel at those who can look back on history through the prism of todays norms.

If you told the people of today what was common treatment of a sacked city in years past they would wet themselves and claim they had been water boarded and seek out the nearest ACLU office...LOL.

I still say it's the education system. The Nationalists had communist enemies, warlord enemies and the Japanese. Mao saw the weakness of them after being depleted by WWII and struck. The rest is the history of communist Chinese oppression of her own people.

You defend it, the record speaks for itself.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 22:52 | 591338 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Mao was fighting Chiang before they agreed to join forces against the Japanese.  The war did not set off that conflict. 

In your patriotism for the US, you show little respect for what Asia has gone through at the hands of those from the West who sought to "civilize" the heathens and profit mightily at the same time.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:08 | 591356 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Mao was fighting Chiang before they agreed to join forces against the Japanese. The war did not set off that conflict."

Before AND after...and I never said it you have an agenda.

In your zeal to blame someone/somethng/anything (apparently the "west") for Asians butchering Asians you try to pick and choose, dodge & weave around some very important facts.

Namely, the communists (Mao) was the mortal enemy of the Nationalists (Chaing Kai-shek). And Mao & the communists committed genocide on their own people. Deal with it.

Nice try though.


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:23 | 591373 suteibu
suteibu's picture

The fact that Mao won and it didn't work out well for the Chinese for generations does not mitigate the fact that the actions of the West for two centuries were nearly as destructive over time.  Communism would not have taken hold in such a strong movement had it not been for the desire of the Chinese to break free.  You are the one picking and choosing.  You need to expand your time frame in Chinese history to have a better understanding.  The woes of the Chinese did not begin with the rise of Mao or the invasion by the Japanese.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:49 | 591394 Bolweevil
Bolweevil's picture

"The fact that Mao won and it didn't work out well for the Chinese for generations"
Congratulations, you are a finalist for Understatement of the 21st Century.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 00:01 | 591403 suteibu
suteibu's picture

Perhaps you are right.  On the other hand, pick a century.  In the history of humans, someone was brutalizing, mass murdering, or trying to make races extinct for political, religious, or economic purposes in nearly every one.  Perhaps those actions of the past two centuries seem more horrific because we have pictures.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 00:57 | 591433 skippy
skippy's picture

Its all about spheres, we took the philippines by force, that put us in their sphere, same with china. Now add the Russians of that time and you get one small island country with a warrior / god emperor social out look and all that equals national nervousness, and we sold them down the road as soon as it they did not serve our purposes any more.


Skippy...funny that MacArthur made peace with the Emperor (under the table) after being such a thorn in his

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 22:54 | 591340 JackES
JackES's picture

what you post is basically nonsense.

I don't even wanna waste my valueable time to argue with you.


have a good life!

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:45 | 591193 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"Call me wacky here...but I'm getting a sense you don't like Americans."


I'll bet he's Canadian.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:58 | 591224 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

VI, nmewn is a by-gosh Cracka.  And he was being polite in this venue.

- Ned

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:29 | 591268 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I could pull my fucking hair out sometimes Ned.

A hang nail in the scope of human historical events is magnified to the point where genocide is overlooked. Millions of bodies stacked up like cord wood and it's no no no...look over here I've ruined my manicure.


Mon, 09/20/2010 - 18:33 | 592286 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"VI, nmewn is a by-gosh Cracka.  And he was being polite in this venue."

- Ned

Wires crossed, Ned.  I was making an attempt at humor, and it wasn't directed at nmewn. nmewn was responding to a previous comment and I chimed in that the guy was "probably Canadian."  Ha Ha.  Canadians are good people, btw.  Even Leo.

Sun, 09/26/2010 - 06:57 | 605284 nmewn
nmewn's picture

LOL...I took no offense VI.

Cracka's by nature have thick's "evolutionary" because of what we have gone through ;-)

I would agree that Canadian's are basically good people...most people are. The ones I have met (my qualifier...the ones I have met, interacted with) are just more reliant on statism for my tastes.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:52 | 591211 JackES
JackES's picture

why do you compare Mao's killing millions of Chinese with Japanese war crime in China in WWII?

what's the point?


Speaking of Stalin, he beat Hitler after killing millions of Russians.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 07:52 | 591580 ZackLo
ZackLo's picture

Hey and they were bank rolled by the same people go figure.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:58 | 591225 chindit13
chindit13's picture

I can tell you that you are incorrect.  Members of the Komintang used to have some degree of control over the SEAsian drug trade, but they have been replaced by a succession of groups including Khun Sa and his Mong Thai army, the Kokang, the Wa and a few Shan groups.  Money laundering has moved to banks and individuals in SEAsia, though I prefer not to mention names.  Suffice it to say that nobody individuals in possession of narcotics in the new money lauderers face execution, but the lords are received by senior officials on State visits.  The US has absolutely no part in this game.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:09 | 591141 lewy14
lewy14's picture

That's not the Japanese Flag they are burning, it's the ensign of the Japanese Imperial Navy (er, I mean) Maritime Self-Defense Forces.

Pretty interesting that they got to keep the bad ass unreconstructed Imperial colors.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:30 | 591168 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

Make very sure you understand that this has nothing to do with a fishing boat.


This is about the oil/natural gas field in that region and the recent move of a Chinese drilling rig.  Japan is enraged.  Taiwan told them many years ago that the area in question south of Okinawa belonged to Japan.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:48 | 591202 JackES
JackES's picture

"Taiwan told them many years ago that the area in question south of Okinawa belonged to Japan."


really? lol, u gonna be kidding me

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:30 | 591169 merehuman
merehuman's picture

moodis goes cowboy on greece, saves dollar

Japan gives chinese sailors 20 days forced vacation, save dollar


Lucky  dollar! Subtle sarcasm intended.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:36 | 591177 Kina
Kina's picture

We all know of the Rape of Nanjing (except the Japanese of course). I read a book on Nanjing, replete with photos. If what was depicted in the book has any truth to it you can expect it to take a few gerenations before the desire for revenge ends.

Japan inflicted the equivalent of a few holocausts in China during its occupation and war.


As far as many older Chinese are concerned Japan hasn't been punished enough for its deeds.


The Japanese would be very silly to push this too far.



Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:50 | 591207 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture

"a book on Nanjing, replete with photos"


In general, Asians do seem do have very developed senses of imagination.  I am generalizing, of course.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 20:57 | 591222 JackES
JackES's picture

Is Auschwitz concentration camp the work of imagination?

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:07 | 591240 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

VI, you gotta get your head right on the Japanese occupation in late '30's -- reallyi brutal.  "Rape" of a city.  - Ned

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 13:53 | 592306 Village Idiot
Village Idiot's picture


"VI, you gotta get your head right on the Japanese occupation in late '30's -- reallyi brutal.  "Rape" of a city.  - Ned"


Thanks for pointing this out, Ned.  Lost in translation, again.  Blame it on the marijuana.  I totally agree that the Japanese occupation was brutal. And brutal isn't even the right word for me - more like imaginative.  Sick. 

My reference to the book was meant to show that, unlike so many other atrocities that go unnoticed/ignored, this one has a book, pictures and all, to go with it.

The "I'm generalizing of course" bit? Who the fuck knows - I was stoned. 


As I look back at this innocuous (by appearance) comment I wrote (below), I can see why there would be confusion. 


"a book on Nanjing, replete with photos"


In general, Asians do seem do have very developed senses of imagination.  I am generalizing, of course.



Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:15 | 591252 eigenvalue
eigenvalue's picture

Actually the feeling is mixed. During the second Sino-Japanese war, a lot of the atrocities were actually done by the CHINESE army. Just look at the Battle of Central Henan in 1944. It was said that the Chinese civilians worked with the Japanese troops to disarm the Chinese army because of the merciless rule by the local Chinese official Tang Enbo.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:26 | 591263 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Nanking. Rape of Nanking and the Chinese remember it to this day. It was sheer brutality.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 08:02 | 591587 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Let the Chinese who suffered it remember it.

Let the rest of them fuck off because nothing happened to them.

Likewise, let the perpetrators suffer, not the people who happen to share the same nationality generations later.

Fuck this original sin and sins of the father shit.  Japs today are no more responsible for that on account of their skin than I am responsible for fucking slavery, or the almighty HOLOCAUST on account of some similiarity to the perpetrators of said.

Perpetual victimhood can blow me

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 11:09 | 591831 anvILL
anvILL's picture

I agree on the suffering part, but not quite on the remembering part.
Should only the Japanese who suffered the nuke only remember it?
Should the rest fuck off about it because nothing happened directly to them?
Perpetual victimhood, or sharing memories with those who suffered in the past prevents repeating history, at least to a certain extent.
So I think the Chinese should remember what happened.

On the other hand, I strongly believe that most Chinese does not remember absolutely anything meaningful about Nanking.
If they did remember anything meaningful, they should know how it feels to be massacred.
If they know how it feels to be massacred, they would not be massacring the Tibetians.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 08:21 | 591600 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Trav7777.....well, a student of history you ain't

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:04 | 591235 chindit13
chindit13's picture

I'm going to repeat my post from an article earlier today because it is appropos, and because I lack the creativity to write another one.  Pardon me.

The Japanese people have a saying, "the nail that sticks out too far gets hammered".

While this is true socially, and explains why the society has long been quite uniform, it is not true politically.  Japan tends to have factions that are virulently anti-something, such as anyone who believes the emperor is not divine, anyone who thinks the Great East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere was not a noble anti-Colonial, anti-Western liberation movement, Russians who think the Sakhalin Islands belong to Russia, or Chinese upstarts who think they are culturally, economically, or historically more significant than the Yamato race.

The average Japanese politely ignores these political blowhards, which in effect grants the right wingers a stage and sometimes even a platform upon which to influence policy.  The recent leap of China passed Japan as the second largest economy has only fanned the flames of insecurity that drive these right wingers, and at the very least an international pissing contest is likely to unfold.

For its part, China has always used Japan as a whipping boy and a target toward which general Chinese anger or frustration could be directed, rather than allow the Chinese populace to vent frustrations against the Chinese government itself.  Often when there is some protest in China against Japan, it is really an indication of general unrest in China, but the government has found a way to redirect a diffuse rage against an external bogeyman.  Japan's history with China, in particular the events beginning with the 1937 Nanjing Massacre, makes this process easy.

Today, the stakes for both sides are higher than at any time since WWII.  The pinprick islands that dot Southeast Asia used to be a mere matter of national pride;  now they represent needed natural resources.  Fueling this is the loss of pride many Japanese feel for becoming but a bit player in the world compared to the high hopes they had in the late 1980's, as well as China's combination of new-found arrogance plus the government's constant fear that a billion dashed expectations could spell trouble for the self-appointed regime.

At the moment it is unlikely that tensions will move beyond the point of name calling or the occasional private act of computer hacking or beating a few Chinese tourists in Tokyo, but it bears watching.  Rather than the nail that sticks out too far, sometimes it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease, and in the case of Japan it has long been the squeaky wheels that have driven foreign policy.  And while China has a poor record of victory in war, other than a civil one, their current arrogance might embolden them to piss on a few rocks.


Sun, 09/19/2010 - 22:47 | 591333 stev3e
stev3e's picture

When did any beating of a Chinese tourist in Tokyo take place?

I'm sure I would have heard about it.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 21:14 | 591249 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

"...or beating a few Chinese tourists in Tokyo."  Chindit I believe you meant the other way around?  The only violence likely to occur in Tokyo is the experience of paying $7.50 for a cafe latte.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:10 | 591358 Not Anyone You Know
Not Anyone You Know's picture

"The only violence likely to occur in Tokyo is the experience of paying $7.50 for a cafe latte."

You haven't been around Tokyo when the Black Vans with loudspeakers wake you up at 7:30. Or in Shibuya on a saturday when the Right Wing nutjobs try to beat up some foreign tourists who disagree with the virtol coming out of their van's loudspeakers. Chindit is exactly correct, the Japanese public ignores these nutjobs (and I'll add the police protect them) and so that allows them a forum. It can be really disturbing, and dangerous if you happen to take umbrage.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 00:05 | 591406 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

You are misinformed...A latte goes for $17.50 in Tokyo

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 05:49 | 591531 anvILL
anvILL's picture

Just to maintain our integrity, let me point out that a very large portion of "gaisen right wingers" are Korean. Seems very weird but think about it. About than 30% of members of the yakuza are Koreans, yet, most of these right wing organization belongs the yakuza.

The Japanese public ignores them because of our learned helplessness and "staying away from dangerous spirits will keep you away from trouble" idea.

Sun, 09/19/2010 - 23:00 | 591350 crzyhun
crzyhun's picture

We are not near a crisis, YET. Stay tuned. This is merely another grain of sand on the scale of events that will eventually tip. If nothing came of the NK PJ boy's move on the ship sinking, this is nothing. Both sides are diverting attention from the key internal issues which we all know.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 00:07 | 591388 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

Those two guys in the yellow T Shirts are Price Waterhouse partners.


Mon, 09/20/2010 - 08:17 | 591598 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

Hey Obama Administration!

Try & learn something by watching these two old school Asian guys fight it out & maybe you won't get bitch-slapped so badly next time you go up against pack of fools.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 09:22 | 591671 Slartibartfast
Slartibartfast's picture

China's Foreign Policy can be summmed up pretty easily these days:

Push, push, then push some more.

Nanking was truly horrific, but China's treatment of Tibet has hardly made them pillars of decency.

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 11:09 | 591922 Anarchist
Anarchist's picture

Tibet and the Nationalist Chinese were armed and trained by the Nazis and the US in WWII. This was one of the few times the Nazis and US bankrolled the same side after war was declared. After WWII, the US and India supplied arms and training for Tibetan attacks on China. Tibet rolled the dice and lost. 

If the Dali Lama was still in charge, women and children would still be sold like cattle and no one except the elite would be literate or own any property. The Dali Lama led a feudal society that kept 99.999% of the population dirt poor to enrich the elite and religious classes. The Chicoms are no angels but compared to the the Dali Lama, the Tibetan elite and their Indian backers they are saints. Hundereds of millions of Indians are homeless and destitute due to the corrupt Indian government that supports the Dali Lama. 

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 11:23 | 592007 Slartibartfast
Slartibartfast's picture

Apologize for China much? Sino-centric much? You're right...China's just misunderstood. The lead in paint, the melamine in baby food, asbestos-contaminated wallboard, the spying, the cultural revolution, and the complete ethnic cleansing of Tibetans and Uighurs...none of this was China's doing. She's not expansionist in any way....

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 12:47 | 592295 Anarchist
Anarchist's picture

So are any of my statements incorrect? There are no innocents in this world. One could reel off the problems here in the USA or the effects of US interventions for the last 200 years but you are blind to them.

Present day China is the end result of hundreds of years of interventions and occupations by outsiders. Tell me the last time Chinese troops traveled to the other side of the world to invade someone? The US has done it over 200 times in the last 150 years. There are 800 US military bases around the world. A sizable number exist to limit China's growth.  

Mon, 09/20/2010 - 11:11 | 591961 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

DOW weekly chart shows key resistance around 10,700

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