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China Prepares To Launch Gold ETFs As Utah Becomes First State To Make Gold And Silver Legal Tender

Tyler Durden's picture


Following Friday's news that China has now surpassed India as the world's largest buyer of gold, it is becoming increasingly obvious that the country is trying to capitalize on the popular interest in the precious metal by transferring the trading infrastructure away from US to domestic capital markets. First, it recently launched a 1 kilo gold futures contract on the HK Merc in an obvious attempt to undermine the Comex monopoly in the space, and next it seems that China has the GLD plain in its sights, as it plans to start exchange-traded funds, tapping rising demand in China, the world’s biggest investment market for the precious metal. Often blamed for the recent volatility in the price of gold, precious metal ETFs have been primarily an instrument available to those with access to the US market. That appears to be ending, and with an entire nation suffering from gold fever (as inflation continues to be goalseeked by the China politburo above expectations in what appears to be a programmed attempt by the Chinese central planners to push its population into gold hoarding) and about to be offered a simple way of investing in (paper) gold, it is likely that the price of gold (and soon thereafter all other commodities) will see unprecedented spikes in price in either direction as millions more are given direct exposure to trading the non-dilutable currency equivalent.

From Bloomberg:

“There are some complexities, as the central bank is in charge of gold management, while we still need to go through the procedures for launching new exchange products,” Wang Zhe, chairman of the bourse, said at a Shanghai forum. There is no timetable and the exchange is working with regulators on the plan, Wang said. China is the world’s largest gold producer and second-largest in overall consumption.

China doesn’t have gold ETFs and investors usually choose to buy physical gold, or invest through contracts traded on the Shanghai Gold Exchange, the Shanghai Futures Exchange or through banks. Lion Fund Management Co. in January said it raised more than 3.2 billion yuan ($483 million) for China’s first gold fund to be invested in overseas exchange-traded products.

Investment demand in China jumped 123 percent to 90.9 metric tons in the first three months. Total consumption including jewelry gained 47 percent from a year ago to 233.8 tons, the council said. That still lags behind India’s 291.8 tons. China demand may double before 2020, the council said.

Global investment increased 26 percent to 310.5 tons in the quarter. While bar and coin purchases climbed 52 percent to 366.4 tons, holdings in exchange-traded products backed by the metal declined. ETP assets dropped 69.9 tons from December through March, according to data compiled by Bloomberg, after reaching a record 2,114.6 tons.

Of course this merely opens up the path to currency "optionality" - after all it is not Guangdong or some other Chinese province, but Utah which just voted to make gold and silver legal tender: a previously preposterous (and very much illegal) idea. AP reports:

Utah legislators want to see the dollar regain its former glory, back to the days when one could literally bank on it being "as good as gold."

To make that point, they've turned it around, and made gold as good as cash. Utah became the first state in the country this month to legalize gold and silver coins as currency. The law also will exempt the sale of the coins from state capital gains taxes.

Craig Franco hopes to cash in on it with his Utah Gold and Silver Depository, and he thinks others will soon follow.

The idea is simple: Store your gold and silver coins in a vault, and Franco issues a debit-like card to make purchases backed by your holdings.

He plans to open for business June 1, likely the first of its kind in the country.

"Because we're dealing with something so forward thinking, I expect a wait-and-see attitude," Franco said. "Once the depository is executed and transactions can occur, then I think people will move into the marketplace."

The idea was spawned by Republican state Rep. Brad Galvez, who sponsored the bill largely to serve as a protest against Federal Reserve monetary policy. Galvez says Americans are losing faith in the dollar. If you're mad about government debt, ditch the cash. Spend your gold and silver, he says.

His idea isn't to return to the gold standard, when the dollar was backed by gold instead of government goodwill. Instead, he just wanted to create options for consumers.

"We're too far down the road to go back to the gold standard," Galvez said. "This will move us toward an alternative currency."

Utah is first but certainly not last:

Earlier this month, Minnesota took a step closer to joining Utah in making gold and silver legal tender. A Republican lawmaker there introduced a bill that sets up a special committee to explore the option. North Carolina, Idaho and at least nine other states also have similar bills drafted.

At the moment, Franco's idea would generally be the only practical use of the law in Utah, given the legislation doesn't require merchants to accept the coins, either at face value - $50 for a 1-ounce gold coin - or market value, currently almost $1,500 per ounce. And no one expects people will be walking around town with pockets full of gold and silver.

Matt Zeman, market strategist for Kingsview Financial in Chicago, expects more people will start investing in gold as America's growing debt and bankruptcies in other countries continue to decrease the value of government-backed money.

"You've seen gold replacing these currencies as safety instruments," Zeman said. "If I don't feel good about the dollar or other currencies, I'm putting my money in precious metals."

Some supporters, including the law's sponsor, seek to push Congress toward removing the tax burdens that discourage use of the coins, such as a federal capital gains tax.

"Making gold and silver coins legal tender sends a strong signal to Congress and the Federal Reserve that their monetary policy is failing," said Ralph Danker, project director for economics at the Washington, D.C.-based American Principles in Action, which helped shape Utah's law. "The dollar should be backed by gold and silver, so we have hard money."

So, uh, does that mean that NORFED's Bernard von NotHaus can now change his facebook status from "incarcerated terrorist" to "visionary revolutionary"? And one can be quite confident that as soon as China (inconjunction with Russia and other countries, not to mention Zimbabwe) will soon proceed to allow the same "option" for their own consumers, as increasingly more countries realize that the $6 trillion in dollar-denominated assets continue to place the world at the exclusive mercy of the Fed, as any global "risk flaring" episode would require the activation of the Fed's FX swap lines designed to meet 'short-term' dollar deficiency needs... which just may not be activated for those which Hillary Clinton deems to be "terrorist" or "dictatorial" regimes at any given moment.


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Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:08 | 1300474 silberblick
silberblick's picture


Follow the link below to find out why the Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange must be seen and understood as an extension of the Chinese government and its long term goals, and consequently, why it will not help create an equitable or realistic price discovery mechanism for gold. Not for now anyway.


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:22 | 1300494 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

Working for the Crimex now, ah silberblick?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:02 | 1300567 silberblick
silberblick's picture

disinforming the readers with your comments again?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:02 | 1300573 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Everybody wants hope but there's just new bullshit papering over old bullshit.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:08 | 1300584 silberblick
silberblick's picture

yes, paper is BS ... buying physical is the best hedge (hope) there is.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:02 | 1301043 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

This just demonstrates that China is still part of the gold price fixing cartel.

The whole point of an ETF is to sell the same shares multiple times thereby having more than one investor hold the same rights to the same asset with out any commensurate increase in price...

To date Asians and Chinese don't have access to the US price fixing system sand therefore have to buy physical in whatever form. This now opens the door to more price manipulation down. Don't bank on a collapse of the fiat credit system just yet...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:44 | 1301088 zaknick
zaknick's picture

What about the potential to use those ETFs as gold backed slips? Like gold backed currency. If the PBoC is behind the ETF that makes it a bit different from GLD with all its smoke and mirrors custodians.

Why encourage a billion+ Chinese to hoard gold and silver and then launch an ETF to manipulate the price? Why did they make it legal in 2001 for private ownership of gold?

No, these Chinamen are up to something real good! Finger licking good: the dollar apocalypse!

Besides, that's how they create that internal consumption market.

Long Yuan! Long China, bitchez!

They'll play ball until the dog just won't hunt no more!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:12 | 1301175 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i thought the collapse of the fiat system is precisely what those ETF's are "banking" on?  that is actual money they are using, no?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:09 | 1300963 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Garbage in Garbage out period.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:13 | 1301176 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"with a little gold in the middle"?  doesn't sound like a shit sandwich.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:33 | 1301226 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

a good point silberblick, perhaps just new

manipulators coming into the market, perhaps not ,

wish i had a crystal ball, fiat has survive a long time

people take electronic transfers and trading

for granted... when a few countries wake up

with no fiat in those machines it all changes

the trust is gone asian countries already have built in distrust and byuy physical???

the market

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 03:16 | 1301247 doggings
doggings's picture

at least he's spamming on topic now tho..

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:41 | 1300531 Ecoman11
Ecoman11's picture

ICBC acquired 10% equity interest in HKMEx in 2009. ICBC is state owned by China.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:00 | 1300676 Silver Shield
Silver Shield's picture

Just another slice in the thin under belly...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:44 | 1300638 beastie
beastie's picture

Sorry to jump in at the top of the queue.

Warren over has put together a database that tracks silver going in and out of SLV and has collated some pretty good info out of it.

The intention is to try and track the "dark pools" of Silver out there and get a bigger understanding of how the Silver flows around the world.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:18 | 1300804 fuu
fuu's picture


Follow the link below to find out why the Hong Kong Merchantile Exchange Comex/Nymex/Globex/CBOT/CME complex must be seen and understood as an extension of the Chinese American government and its long term goals, and consequently, why it will not help create an equitable or realistic price discovery mechanism for gold. Not for now anyway.

Fixed that for you.


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:06 | 1301048 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I recently had a chat with an investment banker from Singapore regarding an ETF in Asia. Turns out it holds it's gold at HSBC in London.

End of discussion...

And now we have ETF's holding real physical paper gold. Make sure you do your own DD...

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:37 | 1301787 DosZap
DosZap's picture



As long as ANY American bank, member of the Cartels is HOLDING the metal, it is a friggin SCAM.

Why China wants to set up ETF's is beyond me anyway.

They are smart, and the REAL deal held in your hands is the only way to go.

Their system will be corrupt as soon as it starts.

So, where's the competition?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 17:03 | 1303036 silberblick
silberblick's picture

Fuu man -- speakers of high context languages should not have had a problem reading between the lines and understanding that which you have superfluously spelled out.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:42 | 1301162 Tail Dogging The Wag
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Silver, Gold, Land, bitchez!


In times of change you need new alternatives and new ideas.

Land in Panama is one of the most undervalued assets in 2011.


In the event of a sale of land from any of the Thorsson Capital properties to any Zero Hedge reader, the vendor (Thorsson Capital) hereby pledges a donation of 1% of the total sale to Zero Hedge, said donation is to be made within 30 working days of settlement.


Watch our new videos available on our site

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:09 | 1300478 DaddyO
DaddyO's picture


State Gold! Bitchez


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:26 | 1300616 T1000
T1000's picture

Utah, bitches!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:39 | 1300630 yabyum
yabyum's picture

I have lived here for 57 years, don't turn your back, they will steal your metal. They run their liquor stores in the Cuban/socialist model.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:21 | 1300698 Hooter Shaker
Hooter Shaker's picture

Screw Utah.   No way I'm paying for anything with gold or silver as long as they're taking Uncle Ben's funnybux.  The only way I'm parting with my PM's is if I don't have enough cash to purchase something I need.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:25 | 1300709 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's the point.  By making them currency, you don't pay the state's capital gains tax when you trade coin for paper.  This isn't about transacting in gold and silver, it is about not being taxed on the same and winding up with ever less.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:33 | 1300722 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

tmosley, are you saying that if you paid your taxes in Utah with gold that you had bought at a much lower price than now, that you would avoid paying the ODIOUS 28% "Collectable Capital Gain Tax"?

If I understand that correctly, that makes St. Georges, Utah look even better...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:54 | 1300875 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, they can only grant immunity to their own state taxes.

I wouldn't look to move any time soon.  Not until they become openly hostile to the Federal government by refusing to enforce the federal tax code.

I'd rather live in a state that has no form of income taxes at all, like Texas ;)

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:35 | 1300921 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

If I ever move back to Texas (and it ain't gonna happen because my wife is a city girl) it would be Llano County.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:41 | 1301809 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Well I don't know how long you have been away, but we do have cities here..............BIG one's.

Hell there's only 17+ million here now.........and they keep coming as fast as they can.

Where do you live NYC?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:16 | 1301177 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

you could argue "you do get a benefit from associating with the government."  i see your point however.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:37 | 1302024 h3m1ngw4y
h3m1ngw4y's picture

that is exactly fofoa thinking. gold as a long term wealth reserve and bucks as a day to day spending tool. we witness the seperation money functions in real time

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:11 | 1300791 Ivar Kreuger
Ivar Kreuger's picture

Legal tender, bitches!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:17 | 1301178 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

or is it "the dollar"?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:11 | 1300892 Blano
Blano's picture

Is Utah actually willing to PAY out in gold and silver??  If not, don't give me this "alternative currency" bullshit. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:13 | 1301051 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Precisely!  This is an instance of "Do as I say, and NOT as I do!"

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:18 | 1301179 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Sometimes ZH'ers can be cynical to a fault. ANY move to legitimize gold and silver as currency is a step closer to the end of fiat.

IMHO - we don't want to be hoarders of PM's but their ambassadors.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 11:30 | 1305195 thriftymost
thriftymost's picture

Speak for yourself.

I'd rather be an ambassador for social credit.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:11 | 1300481 Arius
Arius's picture

i am not sure if these chinese can be really liberated...but they better come to their

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:17 | 1300491 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Here is how you'll exchange Gold and Silver for goods and services.

You will walk into a retail establishment such as a grocery store with your Silver or Gold coin. The person behind the counter will weigh and measure it to make sure is not a Chinese counterfeit and It's current value will be checked. If you like the current price you give it to that person which then adds the coins value to your account or Tab in exactly the way a debt card works. As you purchase goods and services the value of goods and services are deducted from your account.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:27 | 1300502 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

My take:

Cash your paycheck.

Spend for your needs with dollars.

Keep some dollars for unexpected needs

Buy more coins with the rest.

Rince and repeat.


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:19 | 1300605 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Oracle is exactly right.

When I have money come in, some of that gets spent on gold, no matter how expensive it is that day.

I also throw 20s and 100s on the FRN pile in the safe, so I can make a "quick set of purchases", you know, if the ATMs stop working...


O/T, but why is it that the hardest captchas are late at night and on the weekends?  Wee-yed.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:16 | 1301059 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

DoChen, Long-John's idea sounds good until you see a company with massive amounts of gold bullion on 'deposit'. An unscrupulous retailer would simply pay himself the gold, bust the company and walk away with the lot.

You can't beat a system that takes only a fair rate and lets you keep the change.

Long John hits a good point; how do you exchange a large and very valuable gold coin for a bag of sugar. The problem is that gold is not readily available as money is recognisable small denominations; it is an investment assets only which trades at a premium, regardless of capital gains.

The only way I can see is to take your assets overseas and use them as collateral through a trust company for access to liquidity. Only then can you withdraw enough to buy a bag of sugar without relying on anyone else with a vested interest to give you your money back...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:40 | 1301086 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

That's why I've been buying silver.  It's smaller value makes it ideal for smaller transactions.  Buying groceries with gold becomes a major financial do you make change?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:54 | 1301034 kito
kito's picture

dont think we are going back to 1950. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:04 | 1301042 Jalaluddin
Jalaluddin's picture

Are you actually suggesting that gold and silver could be used in a modern computerised society? This is sedition! You must be a terrorist like that guy who was sentenced to 8 years recently for minting gold coins.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:16 | 1301181 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

that's Florida.  "they're all terrorists down there."

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:23 | 1300493 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Since being in physical for most of the 3 year's "rally" and having shorted the "markets" via puts I do am on the deflationary side, getting another paper asset out of China makes me cheer getting another "short"!

Most people forget China is a COMI REGIME with "western style economics" aka take all you can give nothing back!

Be aware of anything coming from out there!


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:32 | 1300511 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Good hedge. can still loose FRN's Be nimble.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:27 | 1300495 Popo
Popo's picture

If anyone thinks the Chinese gold ETF will be any less crooked than its Western counterparts, they're kidding themselves.


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:33 | 1300516 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

Both the US and China want to keep prices from exploding for different reasons.

The US for concealing their printing and China to get an opportunity for the gov and the citizenry to accumulate.

Place your bets.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:07 | 1300588 silberblick
silberblick's picture

you've absorbed the lesson in my article very well, grasshopper

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:09 | 1300592 silberblick
silberblick's picture

you've absorbed the lesson in my article very well, grasshopper

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:13 | 1300597 silberblick
silberblick's picture

you've absorbed the lesson in my article very well, grasshopper

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:15 | 1300601 silberblick
silberblick's picture

seems me old computa had a hick up!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:32 | 1300623 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Just you being a moron and repeatedly hitting 'save'.

Impatient dick.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:39 | 1300631 akak
akak's picture

Not always, Mynhair --- it has repeatedly happened to me lately, although I NEVER hit "Save" more than once, knowing that it can cause multiple repeat posts.  Usually, I get an "Error 503" or some such message when it decides to multiply my posts.  Most annoying that this site does not allow us to delete our own posts.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:41 | 1300637 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

I love to watch a dog chase his own tail. He goes round and round and round.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:54 | 1300658 silberblick
silberblick's picture

yeah .... you are still spinning shill boy

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:55 | 1300664 Stormdancer
Stormdancer's picture

Simple minds are easily entertained, eh?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:17 | 1300693 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Me (heart) 503.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:06 | 1301045 Jalaluddin
Jalaluddin's picture

Maybe something wrong with the keyboard?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:21 | 1301184 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"you are being watched" though "not observed."

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:47 | 1301844 DosZap
DosZap's picture

It's a Server overload issue.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 12:29 | 1300667 silberblick
silberblick's picture

I like your signature ... "impatient dick" ... that's very clever.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:07 | 1300681 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Computers are ignorant sometimes.You can hit save and your computer can get a didn't happen signal which causes it to resubmit the command. Once the sever gets out of load it's able to process it all. So it just depends on what kind browser and system you have and how it interacts with the server.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:19 | 1301186 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

yeah--"it's all about the server and the load" all right.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:00 | 1300668 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

Yeah it's letting you post.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:10 | 1300685 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

+ heh + heh +

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:23 | 1301187 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i like frogs.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:23 | 1300819 Spalding_Smailes
Spalding_Smailes's picture

Got debt ? China money supply ...


Victor Shih

Since the publication of my editorial in the Asian Wall Street Journal on local debt, there has been a wave of interest on this issue. Several investment banks have issued reports on local debt, and some of them have disputed my main finding that current local government investment vehicle debt stands at around 11.4 trillion RMB. The World Bank likewise addressed this issue and came up with a much lower estimate on local investment company (LIC) debt. In the discussion below, I outline some reasons why I still adhere to my estimate that existing local investment vehicle debt stands at around 11 trillion RMB. Furthermore, I once again reiterate that local debt is a serious problem which will require decisive actions from the Chinese government. 

First of all, total loans outstanding at the end of 2009 was well over 40 trillion RMB, and I think it is completely reasonable to believe that nearly 1/4 of it was loans to LICs. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised that a higher share of bank loans ended up in LICs. 

B. Some analysts have trouble believing that such a high share of medium and long-term loans ended up in LICs. When we consider how many LICs there are and the vital role they play in the local economic strategy, it is not surprising that likely as much as 3/4 of new medium and long term loans in 2009 ended up in LICs. 
C. Beyond medium and long term loans, many LICs are holding companies with subsidiaries engaged in a wide range of businesses. For example, the LICs run thousands of hotels across China, and loans to these hotels would be classified as loans to the service industry. Thus, in addition to medium and long term loans and loans to infrastructure, it is perfectly reasonable for a sizable share of working capital loans, trust loans, and loans in the "other" category to end up in LICs. Again, gross debt of these entities would also include bond issuance and debt owed to each other.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:21 | 1301188 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

let's securitize that sucker!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:39 | 1300525 tmosley
tmosley's picture

You think the Chinese want to call down the thunder by defrauding their own people?

I wouldn't bet on that.  If these ETFs are aimed at Chinese citizens, then they will likely be fully backed by bullion.  If they are aimed at foreigners, then all bets are off.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:38 | 1300530 Arius
Arius's picture

sounds about right...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:25 | 1300614 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

@ tmosley

I have traded (stuff, not paper) with the Chinese.  Their mentality is not "win-win".  

"All the profit for me, none for you!"

Anyone trading paper gold should just beware in general.  Why not just buy the real thing?


O/T, tmos, but gas at $3.99 down 20 cents from last weekend.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:52 | 1300655 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I agree, that is the case (and has been shown as such in many studies--Americans have a better sense of fair play than the populations of any other major country in the world).  However, that is not a dynamic I see in play here.  Sure, the ETFs might want to screw their customers, but with this big government backed push into PMs, ANY fraud in ANY of these vehicles that leads to a loss for those owning them will lead to massive unrest.  I don't think they would risk it.

On the O/T, gas will be slower than usual to come down due to flooding of a good sized portion of the US refining capability.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:14 | 1300690 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Be careful mosley. The trolls have done their job they've blown so much crap on the boards that it becomes an automatic fight.

Look at things for what they are an not for what you want them to be.

China is about burst a bubble. China wants to avoid handing over any physical assets on that bubble burst. That bubble is JPMorgan operating in there and we know it as "shark loans" that the few people who have gotten past the gates are able to leak out.

Comex is shit. It's not able to set peoples perspective on price and value. So what do you do?

Two synchronised dancing bears may make people think the dancing bear really is dancing.

Get your circus tickets.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:33 | 1300718 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Starting a new exchange wouldn't have that effect, simply BECAUSE it is in China.  It is more likely to be looked on as fraudulent to start with, and no-one will participate in a fraudulent vehicle that is only traded by insiders anyways.  The COMEX was able to perpetrate this fraud because they already had a good reputation, so people didn't look as closely.  The HKME doesn't have that luxury.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:13 | 1300788 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

"It is more likely to be looked on as fraudulent to start with, and no-one will participate in a fraudulent vehicle that is only traded by insiders anyways."

Really because I'm seeing a lot of people look at it as honest and getting rid of an old fraudulant exchange. Even though the same names are in on both.

We keep thinking theres some sort of cleansing vehicle operating here. There's no damn brita filter here and you've seen all the pranks to pretend the problems are fixed.

Llehman doesn't fix it. Bear stearns doesn't fix it. A chinese exchange could or could not fix gold and silver manipulation.

I've read the entire list of what's in ishares physical all 12.9 megabytes and it just doesn't make much sense.

It just looks like to me they are setting up the same arrangment in hong kong. Beause remember bernanke. He thinks he has the solution to double dip. He thinks he can clear that hurdle. If the stock market goes down and gold and silver don't go down you know the game is up that the banking/government structure is out of physical.

I'd just be careful about approaching this from close mindedness. I think people have the drought/flood scam pretty locked down. Maybe if they buy up this dip pretty strongly it will put an end to those mysterious 500+ million in silver iodide sales per year and shut off all these damn chemtrails or at least slow them down.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:19 | 1300902 tmosley
tmosley's picture

My guess is you are hearing that from Westerners who will never in their lifetimes use that exchange.

The truth of the matter is that, for the moment at least, they are a very low volume exchange.  Take a look:

They are only trading some $120million per day at this point, a little more than 3% of the COMEX volume (COMEX trades 100oz contracts rather than 32oz).  Likely all local traders.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:27 | 1301192 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

inflation.  aka "the real debt bomb."  i see your store of value "and raise you total worthlessness."  don't you wish for Batman's car, too?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:26 | 1300711 macholatte
macholatte's picture

ANY fraud in ANY of these vehicles that leads to a loss for those owning them will lead to massive unrest.


Doubtful. Hasn't happened yet and not likely to. Just because the ETF has the word "gold" attached to it doesn't mean anything else is, like credibility, trust, value, etc.  Wait and see. If needed, buy options on the China ETF. See what kind of reporting they do. See what can be verified.

The lying, the cheating and the stealing is international now.


Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:25 | 1301193 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

define the word "election" again?  i define as "in Spain they killed the Socialists. In Germany they killed the nationalists."  You'd think they were all one and the same in a way...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:12 | 1301055 Jalaluddin
Jalaluddin's picture

My Chinese neighbour says the Chinese market is not homogeneous: one basically geographical sector qualifies as the "wild west" and anything goes (money and intellectual property quickly disappear) and no rule of law, then intermediate sector, then sector in which business is quite regular.


He used to work there.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:24 | 1300822 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

No, the Chinese would never defraud their citizens.  They's just kill them.  There were 84,000,000 examples of that in the last century.


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:33 | 1301007 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Your understanding of history and politics is not nearly as complete as you seem to think it is.

That was civil war and government "help" that killed that many.  Now they are industrialized, and used to a rising standard of living.  There are millions upon millions who feel entitled to a better life with hard work and sacrifice to save (they ARE entitled to that, as are we all).  If the government tells them to buy gold and silver, as they have, and then the government turns around and commits/allows fraud in its ETFs, there will be blood in the streets, as the people will have nothing left to lose but their lives.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:30 | 1301073 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Well Tmos, 'There are millions upon millions who feel entitled to a better life with hard work and sacrifice to save (they ARE entitled to that, as are we all)'

Personally I think the Chinese know that this past policy of manufacturing jobs is about to end, and they then have millions out of work without food stamps. This better life for most has been brought about by credit wealth exporting to the West in the past.

I think they know what's coming and are postponing it as long as possible. I think they know that by accumulating as much, I might say too much gold they expect prices to rise less in the shorter term when the collapse ultimately arrives, but as gold flows through regional markets prices will still rise just as high but at a slower rate, which might be more manageable. I think they're shrewd.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:41 | 1300927 chinaguy
chinaguy's picture

fucking clueless - Chinese govt defraud their own people? - LMAO - Every Chinese investor with an education past the 8th grade knows the stock market is a rigged govt enterprise - Chinese gold EFTs are going to be fucking nightmare.  Period.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:45 | 1301027 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uhhh, yeah, they are manipulated UP, not DOWN.  For the same reason they keep stocks up, they will not be able to manipulate the price of gold or silver DOWN without arousing the ire of the investing public.

What do you think would have happened in the US if the S&P was trading at 200 right now?  Probably the same thing that would happen in China if a year from now gold was trading at $1000.  MASS RIOTS.  Remember that unlike the US, a significant amount of the wealth of the Chinese is tied up in gold and silver.  Here, people invest in stocks and bonds.  Thus, the US doesn't have an interest in keeping gold and silver up, but rather they would prefer to keep it down because it makes the currency look better.  

I would suggest you think about the motives of the players in this game before you try to determine their future actions.  Doing otherwise will just leave you running in circles.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:37 | 1301077 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I'm trying to think of a downside in China if this ETF held its gold in HSBC in London.

The failure of a domestic ETF as a consequence of Western banking system fraud would not necessarily impact badly in China, and would certainly help keep domestic prices lower in the short term...

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 04:50 | 1301264 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

China is one the mercantilist+ model.  Price is an abstraction (as is personal property rights).  In the long run- it is irrelevant whether it is the PBOC or private Chinese citizens acquiring gold, the goal is to acquire the dominant share of the world's pile of gold.  Dividing aggregate demand between the Public and Private Sectors reduces the upward pressure on the gold price in the interim.  The PBOC can always simply copy & improve on the 1933 FDR gold confiscation design at a later date if so desired.  Construction of gold vaults is a very specialized business, if your desire is to loot the LBMA you need a gold vault in London.  It is realistically not a cost effective option for the Chinese to build a new vault in London, especially when HSBC has an existing vault they can utilize.  The worst HSBC executives face by pissing off western politicians is a lengthy court trial and imprisonment in Club Fed.  The cost of screwing over the Chinese politicians can be far higher- so that is a choice they have to make.  Over time (real time, not HFT time) I would expect gold to be shipped from London to the new Hong Kong facility as volumes in Asian paper pick up, and new bullion depositories are built or expanded in the mainland.    

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 08:42 | 1301465 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

For a redneck, you're very astute. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:27 | 1300496 akak
akak's picture

This movement back towards the use of precious metals as money, as slow and under-the-public radar as it may currently be, is actually a reflection of a frequently effective but too-little-recognized revolutionary tactic: instead of attacking that which is evil, and engaging in a direct conflict with a well-entrenched enemy, fight to support and build something that is good, and do so by indirect attacks at the enemy's weak points.  Perhaps this is how the fiat dollar will finally be killed, not by attacking it at the source (The Fed), but by undermining it from a hundred different directions by 100 million different actors.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:39 | 1300534 JohnG
JohnG's picture

If your enemy is secure at all points, be prepared for him.

If he is in superior strength, evade him.

If your opponent is temperamental, seek to irritate him.

Pretend to be weak, that he may grow arrogant.

If he is taking his ease, give him no rest.

If his forces are united, separate them.

If sovereign and subject are in accord, put division between them.

Attack him where he is unprepared, appear where you are not expected.


-Sun Tzu

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 17:07 | 1306716 w a l k - a w a y
w a l k - a w a y's picture
"The secret to change is to focus all your energy not on fighting the old, but on building the new." -Socrates
Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:26 | 1300619 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

akak, very good!  

+ $1500

I am doing my little part.


I like your moniker-name.  Every time I see it, it reminds of how much fun I have when I go shooting with my AK-47 clone.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:52 | 1300652 Hulk
Hulk's picture

DoChen, we need a drink, me thinks. Twice now...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:43 | 1300739 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well we did hit $1500, Hulk.  And as promised, we are allowed one drink since we hit that milestone.  For those not aware of our little party idea:

1) a drink at $1500

2) a MASSIVE party at FOFOA's $50,000 (2009 un-hyperinflated dollars), to be held in a city that those of us in on this so choose (I have a city in mind...)

3) my modification of Hemmingway's "Death in the Afternoon":

-- 4 parts berry flavored vodka

-- 1 part "the green fairy" (absinthe, wiki has a GREAT article on absinthe))

My modification is called "Death After Midnight".


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:07 | 1300680 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

+1500 hugs

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:48 | 1300750 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Wow, XenoFrog! 

If that picture is actually YOUR picture then I would gladly accept that!

Except I am married.  Ah well.

+ 1500 virtual hugs back at you.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:52 | 1300758 Think Abroad
Think Abroad's picture


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:09 | 1300782 css1971
css1971's picture

The weak point of credit is confidence. Without confidence, it collapses because it's literally a ponzi scheme.

If you buy gold & silver and sell dollars, you are undermining the confidence in the Ponzi scheme and the inflation caused, pushes gold & silver up further. It's a self reinforcing cycle.


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:24 | 1300814 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

The Fed is killing the dollar itself on purpose.  They don't need any help from us.  They have already devalued it by 97% since 1913 without any help from us.


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:28 | 1300497 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i think these early prices on goldSeek are from china.  also, j. mauldin does a whole show on the euro/greece fiatsco.

Gold Price, Buy Gold, Gold Coins, Gold Mining Stocks, Free Gold News and Precious Metals Online Information -

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:29 | 1300500 moonstears
moonstears's picture

So, the state will allow you to pay taxes w/ metal instead of cash, and others can give you a credit card for your gold, they put in THEIR vault...SUCKERS! The only way this helps is by getting folks in Utah to think about currency VS asset, so that's good, I guess.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:32 | 1300624 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

also maybe good if you trade a gold eagle for $1500-1600 green stamps, you are not engaging in a taxable transaction, you are just getting some walkin around benjieZ for the weekend. 

we need more laws to this effect.  stop taxing legal US Currency/M-o-n-eeeeee-Y...


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:45 | 1300643 Dejean Splicer
Dejean Splicer's picture

"you are not engaging in a taxable transaction"

Be careful to differentiate state vs. federal, ok old Slewie toohie.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:26 | 1300713 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

ok.  i'll be careful.

do you recommend the jpmorgue acct where they will take your bullion on deposit and you can use it for banking/&tc.?    lol--just kidding!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:54 | 1300662 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

Where this is important is to secure your savings while keeping them liquid. When you buy Ag/Au, you pay a premium both ways (buying and selling). For long term savings, this is no big deal. For short term on hand it is. I would love to have my savings account in gold. That way, as the dollar devalues, my savings stay ahead of the destruction while still allowing me to reach into savings without paying a premium. I am very much looking forward to opening a bank account in a gold based bank. All the convenience of fiat, without all the extra calories...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:18 | 1300810 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Keep it cool, dry and nearby!  If its written on paper it's worth the paper it is written on.  In my mind a few percent here or there isn't worth the risk of having my metal under someone else's thumb.  Think bank safe deposit boxes in New Orleans after Katrina.


Tuco Benedicto Pacific Juan Maria Ramirez

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:38 | 1300846 StateofFraud
StateofFraud's picture both allow you to buy allocated gold at spot, then pay storage, which is fair enough.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:03 | 1301905 DosZap
DosZap's picture

State of Fraud,

Uh Huh, read the fine print.

It's fair until you want physical delivery,then your nutsack is removed.

The Premiums are ungodly.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:30 | 1300501 Tic tock
Tic tock's picture

Sure, were China to place a one ton restriction on individuals, it could operate fractional reserve banking on Gold. It could then quite calmly re-issue the renminbi.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:28 | 1300506 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Good...maybe these foreign can limit the effect of sudden margin hike manipulations by one individual.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:32 | 1300507 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

The first country to create a currency of silver or backed by gold/silver will see it's currency soar in demand.  I'll be importing Mexican libertads or Zimbabwe coins by the truckload as soon as one of the countries does it.  The first to re-value their USD-paired currency will be the victor in the first major war of the 21st century.  Investors world-wide will be demanding the coinage faster than it can be made.

The citizens of Mexico and Zimbabwe may only hold a small percentage of the new currency as the world shifts quickly back to a metal-backed standard.  The first one to exit the burning theatre can always turn around and lock the door behind him.

Maybe this is why NATO countries are shitting a brick about Libya and their planned gold-backed currency.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:58 | 1300672 I_ate_the_crow
I_ate_the_crow's picture

Last point is right on.

"Maybe This is why NATO countries are shitting a brick about Libya and their planned gold-backed currency."

As analysts debate possible motives behind President Obama’s United Nations-backed military intervention in Libya, one angle that has received attention in recent days is the rebels’ seemingly odd decision to establish a new central bank to replace dictator Muammar Gadhafi's state-owned monetary authority — possibly the first time in history that revolutionaries have taken time out from an ongoing life-and-death battle to create such an institution.


The Gadhafi regime's central bank - - unlike the U.S. Federal Reserve, which is owned by private shareholders - - was among the few central banks in the world that was entirely state-owned.


Even mainstream news outlets were puzzled. “Is this the first time a revolutionary group has created a central bank while it is still in the midst of fighting the entrenched political power?” wondered CNBC senior editor John Carney. “It certainly seems to indicate how extraordinarily powerful central bankers have become in our era.”


Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:14 | 1300802 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Now, wait just a minute!  Are you telling me that there are international banks that have an agenda antithetical to freedom, sovereignty and self-governance!!!???


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:59 | 1300873 I_ate_the_crow
I_ate_the_crow's picture

The agenda is old. Inciting civil war by inserting your own rebel forces with pre-designed plans for a central bank to prevent one of the few remaining national state banks from adopting a gold standard and spreading it across Africa is just particularly diabolical, in my opinion.

Makes you wonder what they must be planning to stop states like Utah from actually succeeding in this little venture. Marijuana is legal in a lot of states too, and the DEA ignores the state laws and seizes whatever it wants. Maybe the "Federal Precious Metals Security Agency"? Wouldn't put anything past them at this point.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:15 | 1300897 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I don't know what the are thinking but the biggest trouble makers aren't backing down so everything you see is just a scam.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:19 | 1301058 Manthong
Manthong's picture

MENA Freedom fighter checklist:
Head towel - check
Sandals - check
AK-47 - check
Goat jerky - check
Double entry
ledger book - check
Green eye shades - check

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:29 | 1300508 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture


To: Bart Chilton

This Comex gold market has become an absolute den of thieves1

Do you realize that since early November the price of gold has been capped on any open pit daily session? There have only been 2 days to my knowledge where the price has been allowed to rise by more than $20 on any single day, one of which was by $22 and the other by $25!... over 6 months and the price has not even had one 2% up day!

Of course what is good for the goose is not good for the gander! There have been numerous days in the same time frame where the price has been allowed to fall by well over $30-35 in a single session,..

As ever, the insiders are robbing the public! Essentially there is little difference between this and a street mugger snatching a handbag off an old lady... Only the mugger gets prosecuted if caught. As yet the financial police have not administered even a wrist slap to these Crimex bandits!

Would someone in the CFTC please get on top of this?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:32 | 1300517 Arius
Arius's picture

just for the record gold was up 2.56% in Euro terms last Friday

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:19 | 1300611 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Just sent this off to the CFTC. I don't expect any results, but at least they know we're expecting BIG things after three years of waiting. I also want to keep hammering on the gold manipulation and not let them off the hook on that either.


Sirs, Madam: 

As you are aware we are now approaching the third anniversary of what has become your epic CFTC investigation into silver manipulation.

Well over a year has passed since the CFTC hearings into silver manipulation on Mar 25th, 2010. You, and all of us, heard the damning testimony by JPM whistle blower Andrew Maguire, and further compelling testimony from William Murphy and Adrian Douglas. Obviously with so much time and effort obviously expended by the CFTC to date expectations are high to say the least.

Way back on September 25th, 2008 the CFTC was quoted in the Wall Street Journal (regarding the silver manipulation investigation) as saying:

"We take the threat of manipulation in the futures and options markets very seriously,

Mr. Obie implied the tools and methods at your disposal are formidable. Monitoring potential silver manipulation for the better part of 3 years should have by now produced a treasure trove of evidence.

I have far more meager means to identify what I believe is blatant interference in free markets, but have observed the peculiar nature of Comex trading, although in this instance it is gold.

 As I have previously mentioned you cannot look at silver alone without also including gold in any manipulation investigation.

I have compiled data for the first 96 trading days for gold in 2011, which is from January 1st to May 19th. These are highly suspicious anomalies which I hope you too have identified.

and employ a number of measures to prevent, identify, and prosecute it", said Stephen Obie, acting director of the agency's division of enforcement."

Total Comex trading days: 96

Trading days above 2% gains: ZERO

Trading days with a close above 1% gains: 5 (5.2%)

Trading days with rallies stopped near 1% gains: 33 (35.4%)

Trading days with a sharp AM sell off: 84 (87.5%)

Total PM fixes at least $10 higher than AM fix: ZERO

Total PM fixes at least $5 higher than AM fix: 12 (12.5%)

Total PM fixes at least $10 lower than AM fix: 9

These trading patterns are so extreme that they are impossible in a freely traded market.

As you can see gold is virtually never allowed to close above 1%, and in fact over 35% of the rallies STOP at or near 1%.

 Additionally there is over an 87% chance of an early Comex sell off, and also an 87% chance that the PM fix is either lower, or no higher than $5.

Clearly there is a motivated short during Comex trading relentlessly "painting the tape".

That someone would need deep pockets, HFT computers, and a disregard for true price discovery. With those parameters it narrows down the suspects considerably.

The gold tape painting entity/entities are also likely to be the silver manipulators.

We eagerly await a CFTC ruling on silver manipulation. Three years would suggest there are serious problems. Since prevention is also one of your stated mandates you must also be concerned that the past three years have been a free pass for the concentrated silver short(s). I assume therefore that in any prosecution phase penalties will be commensurate to the damage inflicted on injured silver investors during that time.

The CME clearly has had no desire to police themselves.

They must be sweating bullets at what's coming out of three years of CFTC sleuthing. We await BIG things. I can't imagine handing out any wrist-slaps or exoneration at this point. If that were the case the investigation should have been wrapped up 2 1/2 years ago. To say silver investors, and the world is watching is not overstating the situation.

The recent tightness of physical silver supplies are certainly cause for alarm. The increase in Comex cash settlements for silver contracts also looks like trouble could be brewing. These are classic signs of a broken price discovery system. A ruling, and as soon as possible, now seems highly appropriate.


The GATA camp is hitting the CFTC every which way.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:41 | 1300632 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Excellent, excellent DavidPierre!  Keep at it.

Given the trading figures/numbers you cite above, it would be (my informed guess) that we are over three standard deviations away from what we would expect in fair market PM price movements.

I should find a way to support GATA.  I already support FOFOA (as he has an non-internet way to allow cash contributions):

I would contribute to ZeroHedge too, Tyler!, if you could open a P. O. Box or street address in Monaco, Singapore, Khartoum, etc...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:10 | 1300683 DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture
How to Help

The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee seeks financial and moral support from gold mining companies, investors in gold mining companies and physical gold, and people who seek to preserve gold's vital role in the world's economy.

Contributions are used to expose and stop collusion to control the price and supply of gold and related financial securities.

GATA is a civil rights and educational organization incorporated in Delaware, U.S.A., and contributions to it are federally tax-deductible in the United States.

By Credit Card, mail, bank wire,  GoldMoney...

Or better yet meet up with everyone at the GATA reception right after the World Resource Investment Conference
Sunday-Monday, June 5-6, 2011

in Vancouver, BC.

Buy a round for the boys and have a great time.  Don't forget you Tin-Foil hat.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:53 | 1300761 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

DoChenRollingBearing has finished his Basic Training in the Tinfoil Hat Brigade!

I am waiting on suggestions from my Superiors as to where I should go next.

1) The Space Batallion looks pretty fun!

2) The Lunatic Fringe Batallion looks good too!

DoChenRollingBearing URGENTLY requests Superiors in the THB here at ZH for suggestions as to which batallion I should join!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:10 | 1300789 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

You mean a "gold" round, right?:)  I dont' know if I like my friends that much?


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:46 | 1300639 Captain Benny
Captain Benny's picture

I, like many here, believe the CFTC is intentionally dragging their feet and will then find "nothing strange" in the market after three years.  During that time however, I've helped to tighten the market even more by several million dollars if you believe the 100:1 leverage ratio claimed.  Even at 30:1 ratio, I helped burn some short for a few million if they were to exit at today's prices.  Granted, I don't trade on the COMEX so I don't remove from their vaults, but what I do is take the silver before it can get on the COMEX.  The flow is drying up and the COMEX stock is as well.  So fuck you CFTC and CME... your days are both numbered and there are targets painted on your foreheads.  The battle ends with blood.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:20 | 1301144 sgorem
sgorem's picture

AYE AYE CAPTAIN ! EXACTLY...............

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:46 | 1300640 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

fast track: one of gata's head camperz, chris powell, put this up on the camp bulleting board: 

Gold reserves are just for market rigging, so sell them all

catchy title, eh?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:40 | 1300603 silberblick
silberblick's picture

read below (1) why the CFTC is unlikely to do anything and (2) why market manipulation isn't going to end soon

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:29 | 1301070 Jalaluddin
Jalaluddin's picture

“We hang the petty thieves and appoint the great ones to high office.”
– Æsop

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:15 | 1301940 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Would someone in the CFTC please get on top of this



If they were not COMPLICIT they might, don't hold your breath.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:32 | 1300509 OrestesPenthilu...
OrestesPenthilusQuintard's picture

Sounds bullish.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:32 | 1300510 jkruffin
jkruffin's picture

Every country in the world almost is on the brink of default, gold and silver are going up, way up.  Somebody is hiding all the wealth.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:42 | 1300532 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture


When those who have been accumulating at depressed prices have had enough, price is going to go parabolic and take silver with it. Prepare and brace yourselves for the ride.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:41 | 1300636 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I agree as well.

Hiding wealth is a great thing in today's world.  And nothing is better than gold.

I have taken note of comments you have re renting and staying nimble...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:33 | 1300512 Tunga
Tunga's picture

Tunga is given to understand that the DOD has constructed an exact replica (from data collected by the USAF's top secret hypersonic space plane) of the entire state of Utah. 


The liberation will be televised via Netflix on a 7 second taped delay. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:46 | 1300548 moonstears
moonstears's picture

LOL, thanks for the chuckle, Tunga!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:57 | 1300524 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Billionare Hugo Salinas has an idea to put the current going rate on every Mexican Libertad so that they can never be manipulated down from its minted price and only up in value.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:19 | 1300608 silberblick
Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:37 | 1300528 silver_serf
silver_serf's picture

Maybe that is the real point...Sell so much imaginary gold that the western crooks are green with envy, when they cry fraud, the Chinese will say we will show you ours if you show us yours...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:40 | 1300537 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

American Gold and Silver Eagles were always 'legal tender'. Although legally only at their 'face' value, so the headline is a bit misleading.

That being said though, I do find it funny that Utah has to enact a law to legalise what's already in the Constitution. So much for the Constitution being the 'supreme law of the land'

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:09 | 1300780 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Yes, another case in point, Texas just passed a state law outlawing molestation by TSA at Texas airports despite the fact that we already have a fourth amendment:


"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:58 | 1300953 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

Indiana Supreme Court just threw out the 4th Amendment.

Something about not 'escalating' violence if police illegally enter your home. So just lie down and wait to die (because you cannot question if they are cops... or just a gang of goons dressed up as cops).

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:25 | 1301989 DosZap
DosZap's picture


airports despite the fact that we already have a fourth amendment

HAD, a 4th Amendment.

The SCOTUS and the Gestapo now control your homes.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:41 | 1300539 silverstud
silverstud's picture

If Zimbabwe xan do it then anyone can do it!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:04 | 1300546 mynhair
mynhair's picture


Can 200 be too far off?

Buy fiat now, and silver later.  (Jumping on at 189.60.  Get there!)

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:51 | 1300549 goldfreak
goldfreak's picture

Is that Chinese ETF going to be gold-less like GLD? If so it will be another way to divert fiat from going to physical and so keeping gold's price down

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:04 | 1300773 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Gee, do you think the Chicoms know every ounce of silver and gold its "subjects" are buying and do you think they would ever hesitate to confiscate it!?  No!  A government which murdered 84,000,000 of its own people during the last century would never think of something so draconian.  I trust the Chicoms as much as I trust our government.  Remember, China is the government model of the New World Order!


Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!