China Prepares To Launch Gold ETFs As Utah Becomes First State To Make Gold And Silver Legal Tender

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Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:08 | 1300474 silberblick
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Follow the link below to find out why the Hong Kong Mercantile Exchange must be seen and understood as an extension of the Chinese government and its long term goals, and consequently, why it will not help create an equitable or realistic price discovery mechanism for gold. Not for now anyway.

http://thesilvergoldhedge.blogspot.com/2011/05/why-hong-kong-exchange-will-disappoint.html

 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:22 | 1300494 Dejean Splicer
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Working for the Crimex now, ah silberblick?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:02 | 1300567 silberblick
silberblick's picture

disinforming the readers with your comments again?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:02 | 1300573 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

Everybody wants hope but there's just new bullshit papering over old bullshit.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:08 | 1300584 silberblick
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yes, paper is BS ... buying physical is the best hedge (hope) there is.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:02 | 1301043 Harlequin001
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This just demonstrates that China is still part of the gold price fixing cartel.

The whole point of an ETF is to sell the same shares multiple times thereby having more than one investor hold the same rights to the same asset with out any commensurate increase in price...

To date Asians and Chinese don't have access to the US price fixing system sand therefore have to buy physical in whatever form. This now opens the door to more price manipulation down. Don't bank on a collapse of the fiat credit system just yet...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:44 | 1301088 zaknick
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What about the potential to use those ETFs as gold backed slips? Like gold backed currency. If the PBoC is behind the ETF that makes it a bit different from GLD with all its smoke and mirrors custodians.

Why encourage a billion+ Chinese to hoard gold and silver and then launch an ETF to manipulate the price? Why did they make it legal in 2001 for private ownership of gold?

No, these Chinamen are up to something real good! Finger licking good: the dollar apocalypse!

Besides, that's how they create that internal consumption market.

Long Yuan! Long China, bitchez!

They'll play ball until the dog just won't hunt no more!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:12 | 1301175 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i thought the collapse of the fiat system is precisely what those ETF's are "banking" on?  that is actual money they are using, no?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:09 | 1300963 I am Jobe
I am Jobe's picture

Garbage in Garbage out period.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:13 | 1301176 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"with a little gold in the middle"?  doesn't sound like a shit sandwich.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 02:33 | 1301226 terryfuckwit
terryfuckwit's picture

a good point silberblick, perhaps just new

manipulators coming into the market, perhaps not ,

wish i had a crystal ball, fiat has survive a long time

people take electronic transfers and trading

for granted... when a few countries wake up

with no fiat in those machines it all changes

the trust is gone asian countries already have built in distrust and byuy physical???

the market

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 03:16 | 1301247 doggings
doggings's picture

at least he's spamming on topic now tho..

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:41 | 1300531 Ecoman11
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ICBC acquired 10% equity interest in HKMEx in 2009. ICBC is state owned by China.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:00 | 1300676 Silver Shield
Silver Shield's picture

Just another slice in the thin under belly...

http://dont-tread-on.me/death-by-a-thousand-cuts/

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:44 | 1300638 beastie
beastie's picture

Sorry to jump in at the top of the queue.

Warren over screwtapefiles.blogspot.com has put together a database that tracks silver going in and out of SLV and has collated some pretty good info out of it.

The intention is to try and track the "dark pools" of Silver out there and get a bigger understanding of how the Silver flows around the world.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:18 | 1300804 fuu
fuu's picture

 

Follow the link below to find out why the Hong Kong Merchantile Exchange Comex/Nymex/Globex/CBOT/CME complex must be seen and understood as an extension of the Chinese American government and its long term goals, and consequently, why it will not help create an equitable or realistic price discovery mechanism for gold. Not for now anyway.

Fixed that for you.

 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:06 | 1301048 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

I recently had a chat with an investment banker from Singapore regarding an ETF in Asia. Turns out it holds it's gold at HSBC in London.

End of discussion...

And now we have ETF's holding real physical paper gold. Make sure you do your own DD...

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:37 | 1301787 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Harl,

Bingo!

As long as ANY American bank, member of the Cartels is HOLDING the metal, it is a friggin SCAM.

Why China wants to set up ETF's is beyond me anyway.

They are smart, and the REAL deal held in your hands is the only way to go.

Their system will be corrupt as soon as it starts.

So, where's the competition?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 17:03 | 1303036 silberblick
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Fuu man -- speakers of high context languages should not have had a problem reading between the lines and understanding that which you have superfluously spelled out.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 00:42 | 1301162 Tail Dogging The Wag
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Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:09 | 1300478 DaddyO
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State Gold! Bitchez

DaddyO

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:26 | 1300616 T1000
T1000's picture

Utah, bitches!

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:39 | 1300630 yabyum
yabyum's picture

I have lived here for 57 years, don't turn your back, they will steal your metal. They run their liquor stores in the Cuban/socialist model.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:21 | 1300698 Hooter Shaker
Hooter Shaker's picture

Screw Utah.   No way I'm paying for anything with gold or silver as long as they're taking Uncle Ben's funnybux.  The only way I'm parting with my PM's is if I don't have enough cash to purchase something I need.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:25 | 1300709 tmosley
tmosley's picture

That's the point.  By making them currency, you don't pay the state's capital gains tax when you trade coin for paper.  This isn't about transacting in gold and silver, it is about not being taxed on the same and winding up with ever less.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 19:33 | 1300722 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

tmosley, are you saying that if you paid your taxes in Utah with gold that you had bought at a much lower price than now, that you would avoid paying the ODIOUS 28% "Collectable Capital Gain Tax"?

If I understand that correctly, that makes St. Georges, Utah look even better...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:54 | 1300875 tmosley
tmosley's picture

No, they can only grant immunity to their own state taxes.

I wouldn't look to move any time soon.  Not until they become openly hostile to the Federal government by refusing to enforce the federal tax code.

I'd rather live in a state that has no form of income taxes at all, like Texas ;)

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:35 | 1300921 DoChenRollingBearing
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If I ever move back to Texas (and it ain't gonna happen because my wife is a city girl) it would be Llano County.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 10:41 | 1301809 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Do,

Well I don't know how long you have been away, but we do have cities here..............BIG one's.

Hell there's only 17+ million here now.........and they keep coming as fast as they can.

Where do you live NYC?

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:16 | 1301177 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

you could argue "you do get a benefit from associating with the government."  i see your point however.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 11:37 | 1302024 h3m1ngw4y
h3m1ngw4y's picture

that is exactly fofoa thinking. gold as a long term wealth reserve and bucks as a day to day spending tool. we witness the seperation money functions in real time

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 20:11 | 1300791 Ivar Kreuger
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Legal tender, bitches!

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:17 | 1301178 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

or is it "the dollar"?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 21:11 | 1300892 Blano
Blano's picture

Is Utah actually willing to PAY out in gold and silver??  If not, don't give me this "alternative currency" bullshit. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:13 | 1301051 StychoKiller
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Precisely!  This is an instance of "Do as I say, and NOT as I do!"

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:18 | 1301179 traderjoe
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Sometimes ZH'ers can be cynical to a fault. ANY move to legitimize gold and silver as currency is a step closer to the end of fiat.

IMHO - we don't want to be hoarders of PM's but their ambassadors.

Tue, 05/24/2011 - 11:30 | 1305195 thriftymost
thriftymost's picture

Speak for yourself.

I'd rather be an ambassador for social credit.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:11 | 1300481 Arius
Arius's picture

i am not sure if these chinese can be really liberated...but they better come to their senses...lol

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:17 | 1300491 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Here is how you'll exchange Gold and Silver for goods and services.

You will walk into a retail establishment such as a grocery store with your Silver or Gold coin. The person behind the counter will weigh and measure it to make sure is not a Chinese counterfeit and It's current value will be checked. If you like the current price you give it to that person which then adds the coins value to your account or Tab in exactly the way a debt card works. As you purchase goods and services the value of goods and services are deducted from your account.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:27 | 1300502 Oracle of Kypseli
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My take:

Cash your paycheck.

Spend for your needs with dollars.

Keep some dollars for unexpected needs

Buy more coins with the rest.

Rince and repeat.

 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 18:19 | 1300605 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Oracle is exactly right.

When I have money come in, some of that gets spent on gold, no matter how expensive it is that day.

I also throw 20s and 100s on the FRN pile in the safe, so I can make a "quick set of purchases", you know, if the ATMs stop working...

...

O/T, but why is it that the hardest captchas are late at night and on the weekends?  Wee-yed.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:16 | 1301059 Harlequin001
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DoChen, Long-John's idea sounds good until you see a company with massive amounts of gold bullion on 'deposit'. An unscrupulous retailer would simply pay himself the gold, bust the company and walk away with the lot.

You can't beat a system that takes only a fair rate and lets you keep the change.

Long John hits a good point; how do you exchange a large and very valuable gold coin for a bag of sugar. The problem is that gold is not readily available as money is recognisable small denominations; it is an investment assets only which trades at a premium, regardless of capital gains.

The only way I can see is to take your assets overseas and use them as collateral through a trust company for access to liquidity. Only then can you withdraw enough to buy a bag of sugar without relying on anyone else with a vested interest to give you your money back...

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:40 | 1301086 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

That's why I've been buying silver.  It's smaller value makes it ideal for smaller transactions.  Buying groceries with gold becomes a major financial transaction...how do you make change?

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 22:54 | 1301034 kito
kito's picture

dont think we are going back to 1950. 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 23:04 | 1301042 Jalaluddin
Jalaluddin's picture

Are you actually suggesting that gold and silver could be used in a modern computerised society? This is sedition! You must be a terrorist like that guy who was sentenced to 8 years recently for minting gold coins.

Mon, 05/23/2011 - 01:16 | 1301181 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

that's Florida.  "they're all terrorists down there."

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:23 | 1300493 TradingJoe
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Since being in physical for most of the 3 year's "rally" and having shorted the "markets" via puts I do am on the deflationary side, getting another paper asset out of China makes me cheer getting another "short"!

Most people forget China is a COMI REGIME with "western style economics" aka take all you can give nothing back!

Be aware of anything coming from out there!

 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:32 | 1300511 Oracle of Kypseli
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Good hedge. But..you can still loose FRN's Be nimble.

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:27 | 1300495 Popo
Popo's picture

If anyone thinks the Chinese gold ETF will be any less crooked than its Western counterparts, they're kidding themselves.

 

Sun, 05/22/2011 - 17:33 | 1300516 Oracle of Kypseli
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Both the US and China want to keep prices from exploding for different reasons.

The US for concealing their printing and China to get an opportunity for the gov and the citizenry to accumulate.

Place your bets.

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