This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Chris Martenson And Ted Butler Discuss The End Of Silver Price Manipulation

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Chris Martenson who recently launched a fascinating series of interviews and podcasts with a variety of the most interesting pundits in the world, chats with Ted Butler, discussing such germane items as why silver has such a compelling value story, the coming silver supply crunch, the argument behind the allegations of silver price manipulation, drivers behind the recent price action in silver, why price volatility will increase and the expected outcome of the CFTC’s investigation and why Ted thinks it will be "a bombshell for the silver market."

Interview with Ted Butler: The End of Silver Price Manipulation

2010 has been an exceptional year for silver. The price has increased over 50% to-date, and the CFTC (the US commodity regulatory body) issued a statement last month admitting that the market price of silver may have been (and still may be) fraudulently manipulated. An investigation is underway.

Ted Butler is one of the pre-eminent commentators on the silver market. In addition to his decades following the metal, he's spent years raising suspicions about silver’s suppression by a few large banks taking on egregiously large short positions. The current CFTC action is a direct result of Ted’s activism.

In the podcast below, I conducted an in-depth interview with Ted focusing on the most important aspects that anyone interested in silver needs to know now. In short, Ted predicts the imminent end to the manipulation will ultimately send the price higher - much higher.

The podcast covers:

  • Why silver has such a compelling value story
  • The coming silver supply crunch
  • The argument behind the allegations of silver price manipulation
  • Drivers behind the recent price action in silver
  • Why price volatility will increase
  • The expected outcome of the CFTC’s investigation and why Ted thinks it will be "a bombshell for the silver market"

To listen to the interview:
Download/Play the Podcast [local mirror]
Report a Problem Playing the Podcast

Within the podcast, Ted mentions how the CFTC is actively soliciting ideas and opinions from concerned citizens regarding its investigation. Those interested can weigh in by clicking here.

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 17:56 | 742229 deacon_blues
deacon_blues's picture

I have a man crush on Ted Butler.  This man believes that the manipulation will end soon with his whole heart.  Any people on the fence about investing in silver, tell them to read the Ted Butler artciles.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 20:11 | 742499 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

Especially considering he's almost a lone wolf out there during the early years of his fight to expose the manipulation. No one paid him any attention but he soldiered on.

 

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 22:00 | 742653 Instant Karma
Instant Karma's picture

If the banks suppress the price of gold or silver to make fiat currency "look better" are they not doing us realists a favor by allowing us to accumulate at lower prices. Manipulate away.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 14:06 | 744602 Trifecta Man
Trifecta Man's picture

A hypothesis of mine is that the banks had a motive to weaken our government financially by allegedly agreeing to lease off the government's gold or silver supplies and scamming the government into not demanding the metal back, because a weakened financial government would then be easily controlled to the banks' interest in the future, such as getting the massive bailouts they wanted.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 20:49 | 745195 chopper read
chopper read's picture

the extent to which we are almost entirely ruled by an elite group of families via an international banking cartel would lend itself to your theory.  It is clear that 'democracy' is becoming a nuisance again, now that information is being traded too freely.

I mean, why even criticize our ruling elite? Senator Rockefeller says there is no debate, and folks should just 'trust their government'. we should all just get back on the hampster wheel, pay our taxes, and shut up!

http://hotair.com/archives/2010/11/18/sen-rockefeller-fcc-should-shut-down-fox-news-and-msnbc/

Of course, when you control national newspapers and mainstream television, such dissention in cable TV and the internet cannot be tolerated. This subversion cannot go unchecked!! Central command must get this free flow of information under control!!!!

http://www.wired.com/epicenter/2010/11/coica-web-censorship-bill/

And, why shouldn't King Rockefeller and other Feudal Lords not be upset? a 100-year United States trading monopoly on their beloved corporate currency, the private federal reserve note, may be in jeopardy someday if this continues. 

http://www.save-a-patriot.org/files/view/whofed.html

They may actually have to stop causing world wars and work like everyone else!!! And everyone else may actually benefit from their own free trade instead of always enduring the financial terrorism from the private Federal Reserve Gosbank corporation: namely, 

(1) that they have arranged it so that we can only pay our 'temple tax' to the un-Constitutional Internal Revenue with their private fiat (faith-based) paper money, upon which we actually pay them an interest rate to circulate within their self-serving debt-based monetary system, which allows them to sit at the top, siphon wealth upward, keep there boots on the backs of our necks, and entirely manipulate our lives,

(2) that they have arranged it so as "bankers", these seemingly 'special' men, and everyone in their cartel and inner circle, enjoy all the fruitful benefits of 'legal' counterfeiting through both the printing press and further through 'fractional reserve lending' which allows bankers to create 'legal tender' out of thin air and then loan it to your reckless borrowing neighbor so he can drive up food, energy, and real estate prices so you've got to work harder to earn yours by providing productive goods and services. 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_fractional-reserve_banking

You, see, bankers and their buddies always get to spend the newly printed money on such things as milk and bread at today's prices, but when the privately counterfeited money finally makes it into the hands of the little old ladies scrubbing toilets for a living, they must always pay the full upwardly adjusted price for their milk and bread. Oh, well, fuck 'em, bankers have yachts to buy. 

After all, we only had a Gilded Age when there were competing currencies with real assets, such as gold and silver, backing them in America, so why would we ever wish to decentralize this counterfeiting paper monopoly which has incrementally destroyed small-town agrarian American and stripped States of their sovereignty? 

i'm just waiting for the private Federal Reserve Note to become the monopoly corporate currency of the world so that we can continue to live as serfs and peasants under the superior families of the Rockefellers, Rothschilds, Morgans, and Lazards. After all, the survival of their sloth offspring is much more important than our children who will probably be starved or bombed when they decide that it is time to cull the herd.

my question is, in a "faith-based" fiat paper debt-based monetary system, 

...what happens when people lose faith?

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:34 | 745543 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

a lot of what you wrote is all too true today.  but i wonder if the "gilded age" is the ideal to emulate.  certainly twain thought not when he coined it for the period now considered to include 1869 to 1896.  it produced great profits and growth certainly (there was after all a virgin continent to exploit and fossil fuels were in their first flush of use) but also great imbalances of income and wealth which, imo, contributed to the panic of 1893 and the four years (at least) of depression that followed. 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:22 | 746115 chopper read
chopper read's picture

I understand what you are saying as it relates to income disparities.  however, I believe the attention directed towards the "rich" vs. "poor" debate is oversimplified perhaps by design.    For example, it is important to consider how one arrives at these disparites, because one way brings true wealth to our shores lifting the entire nation while another way destroys and redistributes wealth upwards which is already on our shores. 

Consider this excerpt from Bill Bryson's book, "At Home" (pages 233 - 235).  It highlights the period in America where there was no income tax or other major 'redistribution of wealth', and there was no centralized (communist) policy for money planning.   

Ideas and wealth were pouring into America with this more favorable business environment. The "gap" between the wealthiest people and the poorest was, of course, boundless, but the additional wealth creation came in from overseas via massive exporting, and, in addition to the entrepreneurial "rich" creating manufacturing jobs, they threw parties and built homes that created jobs, and they funded universities and hospitals to secure their legacies (as the mega-rich very often do).  They also brought art and worldly treasures to our shores that sit in our museums today.

Importantly at this time, ambitious immigrant workers were certainly no less "exploited" than anywhere else in the world and, unlike the restrictive class barriers and lack of upward mobility in Europe, new and existing Americans were becoming millionaires by the tens of thousands.

This growth was not agrarian via slavery (this ended in 1865) or cotton, but rather industrial via steel and ingenuity and, most importantly, via the power of property rights (including virtually no taxes, i.e. "right to your own wealth") and free markets. This unprecedented growth happened decades before "the roaring 20's" of easy credit created by the private Federal Reserve Bank.

"The Eiffel Tower was the most striking and imaginative large structure in the world in the nineteenth century, and perhaps the greatest structural achievement too, but it wasn't the most expensive building of its century or even of its year. At the very moment that the Eiffel Tower was rising in Paris, two thousand miles away in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in North Carolina an even more expensive structure was going up - a private residence on rather a grand scale. It would take more than twice as long to complete as the Eiffel Tower, employ four times as many workers, cost three times as much to build, and was intended to be lived in for just a few months a year by one man and his mother. Called Biltmore, it was (and remains) the largest private house ever built in North America. Nothing can say more about the shifting economics of the late nineteenth century than that the residents of the New World were now building houses greater than the greatest monuments of the Old. ?

America in 1889 was in the sumptuous midst of the period of hyper-self-indulgence known as the Gilded Age. There would never be another time to equal it. Between 1850 and 1900 every measure of wealth, productivity and well-being skyrocketed in America. the country's population in the period tripled, but its wealth increased by a factor of thirteen. Steel production went from 13,000 tons a year to 11.3 million. Exports of metal products of all kinds - guns, rails, pipes, boilers, and machinery of every description - went from $6 million to $120 million.

The number of millionaires, fewer than twenty in 1850, rose to forty thousand by century's end. Europeans viewed America's industrial ambitions with amusement, then consternation and finally alarm.  In Britain, a National Efficiency Movement arose with the idea of recapturing the bulldog spirit that had formerly made Britain pre-eminent. Books with titles like The American Invaders and The 'American Commercial Invasion' of Europe sold briskly. But actually what Europeans were seeing was only the beginning. 

By the early twentieth century America was producing more steel than Germany and Britain combined - a circumstance that would have seemed inconceivable half a century before. What particularly galled the Europeans was that nearly all the technological advances in steel production were made in Europe, but it was America that made the steel. In 1901, J.P. Morgan absorbed and amalgamated a host of smaller companies into the mighty US Steel Corporation, the largest business enterprise in the world had ever seen. With a value of $1.4 billion it was worth more than all the land in the United States west of the Mississippi and twice the size of the US federal government if measured by annual revenue. ?

America's industrial success produced a roll call of financial magnificence: Rockefellers, Morgan’s, Astor’s, Melons, Morgan’s, Frocks, Carnegies, Gould’s, du Pont’s, Belmont’s, Harriman’s, Huntington’s, Vanderbilt’s and many more basked in the dynastic wealth of essentially in exhaustible proportions. John D. Rockefeller made $1 billion a year, measured in today's money, and paid no income tax. No one did, for income tax did not yet exist in America. Congress tried to introduce an income tax of 2 per cent on earnings over $4,000 in 1894, but the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Income tax wouldn't become a regular part of American life until 1914, and in the meantime any money that was made was kept. People would never be this rich again."

----

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 07:35 | 745888 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Overall an excellent read Chopper. 

ORI

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:24 | 746121 chopper read
chopper read's picture

thank you, ORI.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 18:37 | 745019 ATG
ATG's picture

16 years without profits not investment, but religion

JPM may be going out of business after 200 years, but I would not bet on it

Ask Will Ferrell and Larry David

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-19/will-ferrell-larry-david-lose-a...

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:46 | 745563 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

j p morgan as a financial entity dates from the 1890's.  if you want to take the current firm back as far as possible you have to take the chase manhattan branch to the chemical bank origin in the 1820's.  and you should have to acknowledge that chase was nearly insolvent in the early 1990's from (what?) bad real estate loans when it was taken over.  the first one now will later be last.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:04 | 742247 Dollar Damocles
Dollar Damocles's picture

Tyler, I think you crashed his site.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:11 | 742266 truont
truont's picture

Damn all you ZeroWedgies!

Now I don't get my Ted Butler fix.

Or maybe JPMorgan shut down Martenson's site....

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:24 | 742297 GoldFinch42
GoldFinch42's picture

Can we have an alternate link?  I am afraid Chris' site went up in flames.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:32 | 742313 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I have tried several alternative ways at it and it's a no go. Boo Hoo! Whaaaaa!

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:37 | 742324 ranrun
ranrun's picture

flames indeed

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 20:46 | 742536 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

That's an affirmative NightRider

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:26 | 742301 alexdg
alexdg's picture

True! Doesn't seem to respond at all. The Zerohedge DoS attack. eheh

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:32 | 742311 boeing747
boeing747's picture

If HSBC, JPM and Deutsche Bank manipulated silver price, they can profit either price up or down. Why do they have intense interesting of shorting? Who asked them to do so?

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:16 | 742409 unum mountaineer
unum mountaineer's picture

those colorful pieces of paper in your wallet are the only type of medium of exchagne and storage of value. I thought everyone got the memo..damn jon nadler!

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:00 | 742543 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

"If HSBC, JPM and Deutsche Bank manipulated silver price, they can profit either price up or down."

<jingle action=play title='NBC Theme Song'>

wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong

</jingle>

You're wrong. They can only profit if they actualy have the physical metal to back it up. Considering %77 of the world Silver Mine Supply was sold yesterday by said banks I think they're firing blanks.

If on the other hand said banks have position limit exemptions they can sell loads of paper silver any time they want. Then after the price declines they circle back and pick up the money they made.

It's like Pennies from Heaven! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pELxwTp7gk

Dorothy, queue the non-magical man behind a green curtain operating a giant console of wheels and levers.

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 23:24 | 743794 snowball777
snowball777's picture

As an analogy, imagine trying to play poker with Bernanke while his inkjet is sitting next to him at the table.

 

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:24 | 742584 DosZap
DosZap's picture

boeing,

"Who asked them to do so?"

Ask yourself the question to yourself,WHO stands to gain by keeping Silver prices down?.

The same people as gain from Gold manipulation,except even more so with Sliver.

It is now primarily an Industrial metal.........WHO would want the prices held lower?.Silver is largely not recovered,imagine the increased  prices of items we use everyday, if Slvr was $350.00 an oz, instead of $12-$16.00oz.

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 06:19 | 742887 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

imagine the increased prices of items we use everyday, if silver was $350.00 an oz

I can't. It seems to me that silver is used in such small amounts that its higher price wouldn't have significant impact on pretty much anything.

And $350/oz silver? That's a good one.

Disclaimer: long silver and silver miners.

 

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 14:24 | 743261 Threeggg
Threeggg's picture

In China alone, four tons of gold, 28 tons of silver and 6,000 tons of copper are used to make mobile telephones and computers each year

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,679871,00.html

Good Day

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 23:28 | 743800 snowball777
snowball777's picture

To put that in perspective...

yearly consumption (of China alone): ~790M toz

yearly production (worldwide): ~680M toz

 

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 14:02 | 743243 unununium
unununium's picture

Who asked them to do so?

Why does the debtor apply for another credit card?

Why doesn't China sell their Treasuries?

Price discovery is unaffordable for those with the wrong position.

 

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 15:28 | 744767 2 cents
2 cents's picture

It's much more profitable to sell something you don't own....

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 17:23 | 744927 2 cents
2 cents's picture

It's much more profitable to sell something you don't own....

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:33 | 742316 Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

Rats still down. I miss Ted's weekly wrap up on Eric King's site.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:38 | 742330 EireWhiteTrash
EireWhiteTrash's picture

CRASH JP MORGAN - buy at least 1oz of silver!

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 10:41 | 744236 darkaeye
darkaeye's picture

+10

Vote with your wallet.  Make a statement the Wall St. mafia can't ignore.

Buy physical silver, even if it's just 1 coin, and shake JP Migraine and MS Bull Crap out of the market!

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:46 | 742349 menlobear
menlobear's picture

From ChrisMartenson.com:

Yes, we're having an issue with our servers (lots of people want to hear what Ted has to say). We're working furiously to get things working again & will let folks here know when they are. It should be soon. Our apologies for the snafu.

Th CM.com staff

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:47 | 742351 Miss Expectations
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:09 | 742393 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

You led me on...

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:54 | 742469 MGA_1
MGA_1's picture

Need to hear - can you post on youtube?

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 18:58 | 742377 greenewave
greenewave's picture

To find out more about the Imminent Collapse of the U.S. Dollar, watch the video "U.S. CREDIT, DOLLAR COLLAPSE – CAPITALISM DESTROYED" at (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWKDmMERKZg).

by Anonymous

The United States is the Titanic and has been driven straight into an iceberg at the expense of the American people!! It’s time to buy Food, Guns, and Ammo as Survival Techniques will be the new vogue!

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:03 | 742560 DarkMath
DarkMath's picture

Nice, another slick hair financial type ass hole trying to sell me something. Peddle your shit somewhere else.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 22:09 | 742671 txapela
txapela's picture

why would you try to sell that shit here, where people who can read this shit clearly know what you're talking about?

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:12 | 742403 MGA_1
MGA_1's picture

Stop downloading - it's my turn !

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:15 | 742408 RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Today, the FBI broke into Ted Butler's house accompanied by Uncle Thug's IRS agents who had a search warrant.

Here's what they found:

 

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:32 | 742437 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Not unless they went to Costa Rica.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:36 | 742440 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

Nice stash though!

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:49 | 742461 Burnbright
Burnbright's picture

I think i just splooged in my pants.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:57 | 742472 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Who knows about those dragons? They are soooo pretty, sooo precious... wow.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 20:02 | 742485 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Damn, are those some 100oz rounds?

Awesome.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 20:03 | 742488 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

so, so hot.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 22:38 | 742717 goldsaver
goldsaver's picture

"video removed by user"

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:25 | 742423 jesusfreakinco
jesusfreakinco's picture

Another site with great weekly interviews in case you didn't know about it...

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Broadcast.html

 

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 19:40 | 742447 Youri Carma
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 20:02 | 742486 au_bayitch
au_bayitch's picture

colocation

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 20:34 | 742524 menlobear
menlobear's picture

...aaaaand, we're back. Many thanks to the ZH team (especially Narrator!) for their help. Enjoy the interview!

 

The CM.com staff

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:29 | 742599 Brutlstrudl
Brutlstrudl's picture

Thanks, it was worth the wait and all the conspiracy theories that danced in my brain

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 20:35 | 742525 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Where is NORFED's gold/silver/platinum???
Where is all the gold that was being kept at the Waco compound by David Koresh and his friends???
Where is the gold that once sat at Fort Knox???
Where will your PM's end up???

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:14 | 742577 delacroix
delacroix's picture

where is saddam's gold, and the iraqi treasury gold?

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 15:39 | 743339 samsara
samsara's picture

Where will your PM's end up???

Ah, I believe you are talking about PAPER PMs. ETFs etc.

Anyone taking the advice on these blogs, the answer is

In my sock drawer,

In my basement,

In a safe in my house,

In my backyard.

If someone ELSE is holding your PMs,

Er, They're not yours. And you have more faith in Those people than we would.

 

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:00 | 742556 putbuyer
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:10 | 742572 anarkst
anarkst's picture

So, what exactly isn't manipulated?

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:39 | 742620 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Fair point!

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:51 | 742645 Rahm
Rahm's picture

Bernanke's hair

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 23:17 | 743784 snowball777
snowball777's picture

A double-amputee's johnson.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:27 | 742595 truont
Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:38 | 742618 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

ssssssshhhhhhhhhhhh! how the heck am I supposed to be able to purchase silver at an artificially depressed price if ZH keeps doing the truth speaky thing?...damn it!

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 03:33 | 742822 honestann
honestann's picture

Answer:  Do the right thing and convert ALL your paper assets into silver [and gold] before December 11th.

Furthermore, if you are worried about your future earnings in fiat toilet-paper, take a loan against your home or any expensive real property you might have, and buy silver with the fiat you receive.  Hell, maybe even max out your credit cards and convert that fiat into silver and gold.  You will have an easy time making payments on those "loans" because silver and gold will be rocketing higher.

Always remember, converting fiat toilet-paper and other paper assets to silver and gold is NOT spending money.  In fact, it is exactly the opposite... selling inherently worthless fiat toilet-paper waste into real, physical, valuable money (and goods).  So, unlike other purchases, you do NOT deplete your wealth when you "buy" silver or gold.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 14:00 | 744589 technovelist
technovelist's picture

Furthermore, if you are worried about your future earnings in fiat toilet-paper, take a loan against your home or any expensive real property you might have, and buy silver with the fiat you receive.  Hell, maybe even max out your credit cards and convert that fiat into silver and gold.  You will have an easy time making payments on those "loans" because silver and gold will be rocketing higher.

I've agreed with almost everything you've written up to this point, but this is in general NOT good advice. We don't know how long "they" will be able to keep up the price suppression, and it can get extremely uncomfortable waiting for the price to go up when you have to pay interest and principal on those credit cards.

On the other hand, if you don't have any significant amount of precious metals, you may want to take this chance, because the danger of not having them may be more than the danger of not being able to repay your debts. That's a tough call either way.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 23:17 | 745433 delacroix
delacroix's picture

better hurry. tulving,  sold out of every form of silver now.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 21:39 | 742621 THE DORK OF CORK
THE DORK OF CORK's picture

Euro Silver Bitches.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 22:14 | 742685 Thomas
Thomas's picture

The grapevine says we had ten times as many reserves in 1900 than we have now. By my math, the game is over within a decade.

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 11:19 | 743052 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

But the dollar was worth at least 10 times what is now. See, it all works out. Especially for the guy printing the money.

Fri, 11/19/2010 - 22:50 | 742732 gadflew
gadflew's picture

Basel

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 02:05 | 742767 Grand Supercycle
Grand Supercycle's picture

Monthly gold and silver charts are parabolic and I expect a substantial correction.

http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com

 

 

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 06:28 | 742893 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Thank you so much for that valuable insight!

I'll give it a week to hopefully manage to buy some on a dip.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 16:10 | 744833 dumpster
dumpster's picture

so many never buy as they wait again for the dip

 

to determine  who has not bought much silver ,, find those who will buy on next dip.

 

a dip from 4 to 28,,

 

they waited at 17 to buy the dip.. lol  now 28,,

got the dough go... why get all lathered up over a couple bucks ,, silver on the way to 100,,, and many waiting to buy on dips

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 00:18 | 743863 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Ah, another 'the charts tell all" type. 

There's a scene in Fellini's Satyricon in which the wealthy roman hosts of a party have a seer predict upcoming events by looking at the entrails of a slaughtered goat.  The entrails of a goat don't actually have the power to effect future events.

But the picture formed by a chart doesn't actually have the power to affect future events, either.

If you had actually played the interview you would have heard that there's a very good chance that the price manipulation of silver that has apparently been ongoing since 1983(!), the year when its price relative to gold diverged from the historically common range of 12-15 gold to 1 silver to 45-50 gold to 1 silver, will end.  If that previous price ratio reasserts itself, silver will triple to quintuple based on nothing more than price manipulation being removed.

Then you could add on currency debasement, etc . . and see what else happens to the price.

 

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 08:50 | 742971 Frankie Carbone
Frankie Carbone's picture

Chris' name has really hit the blogosphere fast and furious in 2010. A week ago he was on Max Keiser, a few weeks before that he had an hour guest appearance on Financial Sense News Hour. A good part of fight club are regular and active ChrisMartenson.com members, and you can be assured that if ZeroHedge breaks something then within hours its linked on Chris Martenson. 

Point is that Chris is refreshing because he has new ideas that pass the smell test and his site is actively engaged in cross-linking the blogosphere to help really turn it into a force of truthful information and act as a counterweight to the Matrix. 

I've been watching them (CM and staff) make an active thrust to give other bloggers more exposure as well as strengthen the bonds of a news/commentary web within the web. 

This is an intrinsic good. For any attack by the Lame Stream Media or the establishment on any one blog site is difficult as hell to repel considering the force (and finances) aligned against it. By being a leading example for cross linking and uniting the blogosphere, CM's efforts help all by creating a sum greater than the parts. 

This gives sites like ZeroHedge (or Chris Martenson for that matter) a potent alliance of blogs that can act like a counterweight to the all-seeing, all-knowing, obnoxious as hell establishment corporate media. 

 

 

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 10:25 | 743021 moofph
moofph's picture

"Ted mentions how the CFTC is actively soliciting ideas and opinions from concerned citizens regarding its investigation..."

...many thanks to you ted butler, chris martenson, tyler and crew, me and you.

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 08:09 | 743026 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Crash JP Morgan!!!

 

"He who sells what isn't his'n, Must buy it back or go to prison"

Daniel Drew

 

"There is nothing more? powerful than an idea whose time has come"

Victor Hugo

 

You better run, run, run, run, run,

Run, run, run, run, run, run, run

Oh I said you better

Run, run, run, run, run, run, run,

Run, run, run, run, run

Finally the tables are starting to turn

Talkin' bout a revolution........

 

http://www.youtube.com/user/davincij15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bJK9K05Hgo

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 14:46 | 743284 Youri Carma
Sat, 11/20/2010 - 14:56 | 743295 Youri Carma
Youri Carma's picture

While The U.S. Prints And Spends, Russia Loads The Boat With Gold... http://truthingold.blogspot.com/2010/11/while-us-prints-and-spends-russi...

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 17:16 | 743412 Paul E. Math
Paul E. Math's picture

Just bought a couple silver eagles down at the local collector's shop.  Doing my part to kill one of the vampire squids by a thousand cuts.

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 20:52 | 743596 Silversinner
Silversinner's picture

Ted Butler is a modern day hero,great respect for

his work.He convinced me years ago to buy silver

and still keep adding on.Ted,you are not alone

anymore.Our army of silvervigilantes is really big

and growing.The raindrops has turned into one

big tsunamiwave ready to crush them and hopefully

free markets will preval.

 

Sat, 11/20/2010 - 23:09 | 743767 Alterity
Alterity's picture

As Will Smith said when asked if he would play the role of B.O in an upcoming movie...

"I will do my duty" and buy some silver.  

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 00:22 | 743870 Fred Hayek
Fred Hayek's picture

Another site that provides unique information on gold and silver is The Daily Gold & Silver report run by a guy named Harvey Organ.  He runs through changes in Comex contracts and deliveries every day that it's open.  It's been quite educational for me.

http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com/

 

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 00:52 | 743917 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture
Speaking of options expiry....

posted on Nov 18, 10 08:40PM

(snipped from agoracom.com site)

If the Open interest won’t go down the cartel has a problem. Who would want to take the short side with a barrage of lawsuits against JPM and HSBC and a CFTC Commissioner giving his opinion that silver has been fraudulently manipulated and controlled? If no one will be stupid enough to take the short side the cartel is trapped. Here is my theory as to how this will get resolved. The cartel will cover by continually increasing margin until there is no leverage (margin=100% of contract price). This might take some time but eventually you would have nobody wanting to be long because there is no leverage so you might as well buy bullion instead. If there are no takers for long futures then you don't need anyone willing to go short. Problem solved! Open Interest would gradually decline to zero as speculators moved into other markets where they can find leverage. As the longs are squeezed with increased margin the shorts get to cover. This will probably mean prices would not dip very much, if at all, but it would be a way for the cartel to get out of dodge ONLY having to provide fiat money and no physical. Perhaps silver margins being raised twice in a week is the trial balloon to see if anyone screams foul. Will we see weekly margin raises? After the lack of OI contraction in the last 7-10 days I can see this is the only way out without an outright default.

 

 

Now the massive problem at the LBMA is a completely different ball of wax. When investors try to take delivery of their "unallocated gold" or silver they will find there is none. Unlike the Comex speculators who don’t really want bullion in the first place and just want leveraged bets on bullion, the LBMA customers are under the impression they already own bullion and it has been fully paid for. There are going to be some very angry customers at the LBMA!
Cheers
Adrian

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 01:44 | 743983 PapiBow
PapiBow's picture

illogical reasoning!  Comex will try to increase margin reqs at least one more time and it may pass, but the second try will lead to a rush into demands for delivery because everybody will smell a rat, this will be the end of silver trading on Comex. Comex will shut down the trading with some dumb excuse and silver will trade on the Moon. In the meantime, fools who hold the paper contracts will be litigating with shorts forever!!!

 

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:28 | 746129 chopper read
chopper read's picture

The cartel will cover by continually increasing margin until there is no leverage (margin=100% of contract price).

 

+1

splitting hairs.  both of you have good reasoning. 

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 06:27 | 744115 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Ted is one of those who will keep after it.

Thank goodness for the Ted Butlers of the world.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 07:40 | 744146 ft65
ft65's picture

Silver and gold are just commodities with an ancient history of being used as money. The goldsmiths found that paper IOU's became trusted as an exchange. Bankers used the gold standard as an excuse to control money creation. When their gold ran out, they confiscated it from individuals, to keep their Ponzi going a little longer. It finally broke in 1973. A new gold standard would be used by PRIVATE BANKS to keep control a little longer. Fiat money is good, it's just who prints the stuff and controls the quantity. All people need to understand is that governments borrow money AT INTEREST from PRIVATE banks, who create the money out of "thin air" They then use those government IOU's (bonds) as the basis of their fractional reserve, creating even more money out of thin air lent at interest. The rest of the jaw boning is smoke and mirrors, and all the perversion connected to the above. Governments need to print their own money, and have an independent body to keep an eye on inflation. Painful, but this problem can be slowly solved! Wake up Zero Hedge!

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 13:40 | 744536 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

Dude(ette) - I am trying to "wake up" that's why I'm here in first place. Please educate me. I follow (mostly agree) your statement right up to the last sentence, pre "wake up". What exactly is "this problem" and what is the process of "can be solved"? Thanks.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 15:24 | 744745 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Silver and gold are money that modern people have been told are commodities.

"Governments" must not control money.  It is a free-market, self-organizing phenomenon that can only be perverted by "governments".    The people who have taught you that there should be an "independent" body controlling your "money" ( vaueless fiat currency ) are lying to you, stealing from you, and enslaving you.

Fiat money is good the same way that Sauron's ring was good. 

The ability to create "money" from nothing is power so potent it would (and has) corrupted the angels themselves.   No human being, nor group of human beings, if allowed this power, will remain long uncorrupted.  

Even if they begin with the best of intentions possible (and they do not) they would, within two generations, be reduced to evil caricatures, unable to distinguish between the common good and their own lust for power.

These foul wraiths fear and hate silver above all things.

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 15:24 | 744759 Clint Liquor
Clint Liquor's picture

Where will we find the 'Angels' to manage the fiat currency in the interest of The People instead of the ruling elite?

Nowhere, they don't exist.

Fiat comes and goes, but Gold is always money.

 

Sun, 11/21/2010 - 11:53 | 744289 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

( This was intended to be a reply to Instant Karma, ^^^.  I think I messed up the captcha tensor calculus question, and Something Bad happened. )

 

We might enrich ourselves by accumulating argentum (and maybe a little aurum) before the collapse of the unsustainable and evil fiat 'money' crime, but our species has suffered greatly from it.  By accumulating some actual money, we will also help to repair the damage after the crash, when we put that money into circulation, and teach people why it works better than pictures on paper, or bottles of booze.

But there is another universe in which this crime never happened.  In which mutant vampire slime beings never conquered America and crossed out vital parts of its Constitution, and never substituted their own toxic waste for the silver that they hate and fear, taking multiple generations of humans to prepare and execute their pernicious schemes.

That's a better universe, and even we would be far better off in it.  If I could buy a ticket to that place, I would pay every Mercury dime and Morgan dollar I own to get there.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 00:23 | 745525 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

a lot of what you wrote seems all to true today.  but i wonder if the "gilded age" is the ideal that one wants to emulate:  rapid growth and capital formation certainly (there was after all a virgin continent to exploit and fossil fuels were in their first flush of use) but extreme income and wealth imbalances also which, imo, contributed to the panic of 1893 and the four year (at least) depression which followed.

Mon, 11/22/2010 - 10:30 | 746140 chopper read
chopper read's picture

I understand what you are saying as it relates to income disparities.  however, I believe the attention directed towards the "rich" vs. "poor" debate is oversimplified perhaps by design.    For example, it is important to consider how one arrives at these disparites, because one way brings true wealth to our shores lifting the entire nation while another way destroys and redistributes wealth upwards which is already on our shores. 

Consider this excerpt from Bill Bryson's book, "At Home" (pages 233 - 235).  It highlights the period in America where there was no income tax or other major 'redistribution of wealth', and there was no centralized (communist) policy for money planning.   

Ideas and wealth were pouring into America with this more favorable business environment. The "gap" between the wealthiest people and the poorest was, of course, boundless, but the additional wealth creation came in from overseas via massive exporting, and, in addition to the entrepreneurial "rich" creating manufacturing jobs, they threw parties and built homes that created jobs, and they funded universities and hospitals to secure their legacies (as the mega-rich very often do).  They also brought art and worldly treasures to our shores that sit in our museums today.

Importantly at this time, ambitious immigrant workers were certainly no less "exploited" than anywhere else in the world and, unlike the restrictive class barriers and lack of upward mobility in Europe, new and existing Americans were becoming millionaires by the tens of thousands.

This growth was not agrarian via slavery (this ended in 1865) or cotton, but rather industrial via steel and ingenuity and, most importantly, via the power of property rights (including virtually no taxes, i.e. "right to your own wealth") and free markets. This unprecedented growth happened decades before "the roaring 20's" of easy credit created by the private Federal Reserve Bank.

"The Eiffel Tower was the most striking and imaginative large structure in the world in the nineteenth century, and perhaps the greatest structural achievement too, but it wasn't the most expensive building of its century or even of its year. At the very moment that the Eiffel Tower was rising in Paris, two thousand miles away in the foothills of the Appalachian Mountains in North Carolina an even more expensive structure was going up - a private residence on rather a grand scale. It would take more than twice as long to complete as the Eiffel Tower, employ four times as many workers, cost three times as much to build, and was intended to be lived in for just a few months a year by one man and his mother. Called Biltmore, it was (and remains) the largest private house ever built in North America. Nothing can say more about the shifting economics of the late nineteenth century than that the residents of the New World were now building houses greater than the greatest monuments of the Old. ?

America in 1889 was in the sumptuous midst of the period of hyper-self-indulgence known as the Gilded Age. There would never be another time to equal it. Between 1850 and 1900 every measure of wealth, productivity and well-being skyrocketed in America. the country's population in the period tripled, but its wealth increased by a factor of thirteen. Steel production went from 13,000 tons a year to 11.3 million. Exports of metal products of all kinds - guns, rails, pipes, boilers, and machinery of every description - went from $6 million to $120 million.

The number of millionaires, fewer than twenty in 1850, rose to forty thousand by century's end. Europeans viewed America's industrial ambitions with amusement, then consternation and finally alarm.  In Britain, a National Efficiency Movement arose with the idea of recapturing the bulldog spirit that had formerly made Britain pre-eminent. Books with titles like The American Invaders and The 'American Commercial Invasion' of Europe sold briskly. But actually what Europeans were seeing was only the beginning. 

By the early twentieth century America was producing more steel than Germany and Britain combined - a circumstance that would have seemed inconceivable half a century before. What particularly galled the Europeans was that nearly all the technological advances in steel production were made in Europe, but it was America that made the steel. In 1901, J.P. Morgan absorbed and amalgamated a host of smaller companies into the mighty US Steel Corporation, the largest business enterprise in the world had ever seen. With a value of $1.4 billion it was worth more than all the land in the United States west of the Mississippi and twice the size of the US federal government if measured by annual revenue. ?

America's industrial success produced a roll call of financial magnificence: Rockefellers, Morgan’s, Astor’s, Melons, Morgan’s, Frocks, Carnegies, Gould’s, du Pont’s, Belmont’s, Harriman’s, Huntington’s, Vanderbilt’s and many more basked in the dynastic wealth of essentially in exhaustible proportions. John D. Rockefeller made $1 billion a year, measured in today's money, and paid no income tax. No one did, for income tax did not yet exist in America. Congress tried to introduce an income tax of 2 per cent on earnings over $4,000 in 1894, but the Supreme Court ruled it unconstitutional. Income tax wouldn't become a regular part of American life until 1914, and in the meantime any money that was made was kept. People would never be this rich again."

----

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!