Citi "Beats" Earnings As $2 Billion In Reserve Releases Generate Half Of Pre-Tax "Income"

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Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:25 | 1458911 digitlman
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Please explain to me in laymans terms.


edit:  or more geekier, Jack Carter "Everyman" terms ;-)

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:36 | 1458915 Popo
Popo's picture

Capital reallocated from loan-loss provisioning was counted as "income".

Which is b.s. because that reduction in loan-loss provisioning was based on the red-herring / false indicator of improving loan-quality.

Ultimately, C has magically beat estimates while making themselves more vulnerable.   Once again:  Their profit = the public's (future) loss.


Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:46 | 1458951 idea_hamster
idea_hamster's picture

It means they just went all-in (no reserves)
on 7-2 (their balance sheet sucks)
with 9-6-3 on the board (recent data on recovery all suck)
versus a known tight/agressive player (gold)
because they know that if -- excuse me -- when they lose (stock price goes back to $1)
and they need a marker (bail-out)
from the pit boss (Obama/Geithner/Bernenke)
they will get it (shadow discount window op? 0.01 bp loan? your guess is as good as mine)
and it won't matter because the debt enforcer (the court system, but think Joe Pesci from "Casino")
won't be coming to break their legs but rather all the other idiots' sitting at the table (that's you and me).

Hope that helps.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:30 | 1459054 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Tyler wasn't bitching when increased loss reserves were counted AGAINST income.  Only now does it become a "fantasy"?

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 10:10 | 1459180 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

Actually we did mention it. The problem is it coincided with a taxpayer rescue which FUNDED the massive surge in reserves. Because without this taxpayer rescue, none of these observations would even exit today (and neither would the US have to issue $1.5 trillion in debt each year to fund a ponzi scheme).

And since you missed the bolded text, the ratio of reserve generating pretax Income to Loss is 11 to 5 billion. Translated for your benefit: over 100%.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 10:22 | 1459218 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Should have added italics. Rescue technicalities. In distress does not a damsel make

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 10:15 | 1459199 SRV - ES339
SRV - ES339's picture

Good point trav... anyone know what the reg is on Reserve level adjustment, or can they just use it as they see fit to pad bonus and manipulate the stock price (you know... the WTI model)?

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:30 | 1458919 plocequ1
plocequ1's picture

It means citi beats.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:38 | 1458943 Saxxon
Saxxon's picture

That's right ploc.  What a gaggle of beetches. 

Citi beat, were some of you short?

Remember the Paul Simon song?

"Still shortin' after all these years...O, still shortin' after all these years".

You have had at least (2) years to study the mechanics of the pump.  You knew the fix was in...

"O, still shortin' after all these years..."

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:42 | 1458950 Popo
Popo's picture

The 'fix' is always, and only ever a 'patch'. 

If governments could stave off insolvency indefinitely via accounting tricks,  nations and empires would never fail.

Extend and pretend has limits that cannot be breached.

...Then again... the Soviet Union extended and pretended for quite a few decades.   Imminence is a very difficult thing to measure...

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 10:28 | 1459247 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

a nicotine patch

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:30 | 1458926 Caveman93
Caveman93's picture

Accounting magic! Turds into gold nuggets! We're so screwed.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:39 | 1458944 optionsoptions
optionsoptions's picture

It means that Citi overreserved the last couple of years and are actually showing less loses than was previously estimated. 

They weren't doing as bad as everyone said they were last couple of years (even though they were still really really really bad) and they aren't doing as good as they say they are now

Loan loss provisisions are a way to "manage" earnings or "cook the books"

The most important thing which Tyler highlights is that their loans are going bad at an accelearting slower rate which is a very good thing and by their own admission, they are only giving out loans with much higher quality.

All good things for the stock going forward.....all else being equal.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:01 | 1458980 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Imagine you lose your job and you are now making 75% less working at Home Depot. Instead of telling your wife what actually occured and telling her to cancel her gym membership and head to Louis Vuitton less you dip into your savings and pretend your making the same figure as before. She can know continue the lifestyle and no corrections can be made on the expenditure side to compensate for less income. Works wonderfully until and event occurs and she goes looking for the rainy day fund and there is 0 left. In peasentville they would file for BK. In bankster world they care not because when that day arrives they go knock on Uncle counterfeiters door and problem solved. This all happens after a round of "nobody saw it comIng" .

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 10:07 | 1459169 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it also means that they declared a tax loss on these reserves which they are now able to carry-over and apply against earnings. Reserves do not sit idle but are invested in "cash equivalent" investments.

It's like claiming that the money you have in an interest bearing account (except you'd have a balance in the billions) is a tax deduction (imagine a multi-billion dollar-for-dollar deduction) in the years when your business or your crop are failing but, without moving the money, in the good years you can then subject this money to taxation. However, since it was a loss and then a gain,  the net is a wash, except it's up to you how to apply it as the loss can be applied to whatever earnings come first. 

So, it becomes clear that your corn crop is going to fail so you declare a "loan loss reserve" that effectively doubles your tax loss. The next 2 years are good so you offset the taxable gains with the taxable losses and then in year 3, with another good crop in the ground, you declare the loan loss reserve is no longer needed and you pay the tax that that it entails -hopefully, offsetting that liability with the purchase of a new tractor which is 100% tax deductible in 2011. 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:26 | 1458913 Racer
Racer's picture

How absolutely ridiculous, what a complete scam, con, farce, ponzi, pyramid....

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:34 | 1459059 trav7777
trav7777's picture

Citi's losses were greater for some time due to loss reserves being counted against income.  They are merely backing out those monies.  These funds were not counted as income when they were reserved; they were counted as a loss.  Now they are counted as the income they should have been, just in a later accounting period.

You idiot doomers need to get edjamacated and stop frothing over Tyler's trollbait.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 11:27 | 1459504 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

it's so idiotic and exagerated that it drags you back here daily. Perhaps we should model your peak oil positions to learn how to be non-doomer. You win, we trust the big banks, their accounting and the rules they regulate 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:27 | 1458916 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Pandit the bandit. 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:27 | 1458917 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Citi capital markets blows pretty hard, they still have a decent (presumabely, based on league tables) IBD team but thats about it.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:28 | 1458921 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

One does not need to be an accounting maven to see the farce.  Short the pop. 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:40 | 1458947 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

Did you mean to say "short the poop?"

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:34 | 1458928 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

They took a wand, moved bad loans into a "special pool" and magically reasoned that risk has gone down, so they took the 2B they had in reserves for the bad loans in the "special pool" released the money and called in revenue. 50% of revenue comes from this asset turned magically into "recurring" income, then they raised client transaction rates and went overseas for the rest of the profit. No revenue growth anywhere else.


Massive example of classic banking window dressing. It'll take a while for the retail investor frogs jumping into the C water to realize the heat has been turned up in the pot.


Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:42 | 1459090 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you DO understand that moving the money into reserves generated an accounting LOSS for the period in which the funds were reserved, right?

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:33 | 1458932 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

So I guess the topic of QE3 is now dead, considering banks only real problem is what to do with all their extra billions of cash, they should be plenty happy and satisfied today. And like Tony Montanas OTHER only real problem, they just need to remember 'Dont get high on your own supply'.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:35 | 1458938 DarthVaderMentor
DarthVaderMentor's picture

Hehehe..."high on your own supply" of released faux reserves. They'll make this part of eps and continuing revenues, you betcha.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:34 | 1458937 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

Reserves, only milkable cow left.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:37 | 1458940 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Who needs reserves?  Everything is good. 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:38 | 1458942 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

Also notable- Citi says its exposure to the PIIGS is $13 billion or about 10% of its Tangible Common Equity

the bad news is always in the footnotes.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:42 | 1458952 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Same old crap and they play it up big time on Wall Street. Nothing has changed, we are moving down but until the stock market pundits admit it, tough to short for more than a day.

Question guys, am I the only one that cannot stand Cramer this early in the morning, (west coast time). What possessed the programming idiots to allow this shill on before breakfast? Back to Bloomberg.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:48 | 1458959 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

I would never want to watch Cramer before I brushed my teeth.  After he makes me puke, I would only need to brush again.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:49 | 1458960 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

i heard cramer and all thought was "it shuts up or it gets the hose again".

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:51 | 1458966 oogs66
oogs66's picture

cramer is unbearable, i cannot watch the show with him on, period...andrew ross sorkin is almost as bad..

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:57 | 1458985 Loose-Tools
Loose-Tools's picture

I think he is there to actively recruit Bagholders before the next correction. Ever notice when he gets extra excited his voice sounds like someone straining to pass an oversized turd?

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:49 | 1458961 oogs66
oogs66's picture

wait til you see fixed income revenue next quarter, with limited POMO revenues

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:54 | 1458973 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

..and headcount drop.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:50 | 1458964 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

This is quite comical.  We have KD saying that if the limit is raised - we get down graded. FOX saying that if it is not raised, we get down graded. ZH acts as if we already have been down graded, defaulted and that gold is being accepted at supermarkets in america.  We have the american people who DONT want it raised, supposedly, but dont care about our 'rating', and of course the fact is, if we do get downgraded by a  terrorist RATING agency, and interest rates rise, that 800 bil we pay to service our debt is going UP UP and AWAY!!!

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:52 | 1458970 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Terrorist Rating agency, don't get that. You mean SP, Fitch, etc. are terrorists? A bit absurd is it not.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:57 | 1458984 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

just like terrorists, they behave (mostly) when they are bribed, etc and act up when it suits them best. Do you really think the us deserves a AAA rating after all the shinanigans?? I mean, I do, because compared to the rest of the world we do more right than wrong, but by ourselves? We deserve a D for douchebaggery

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 08:55 | 1458977 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Thanks, all that is correct.  Every single outcome of the debt ceiling "deal" is a LOSE-LOSE for the USA.  BTW, do not forget the advisory role the IBs are playing in this charade. 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:00 | 1458993 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Reserve reversal, bitchez!

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:02 | 1458996 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Hey where have I seen this movie before?

It seems like almost yesterday.......

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:14 | 1459026 HCSKnight
HCSKnight's picture

Re "Since Q2 2009, loan loss reserve changes have reduced pretax income by $5.6 billion and added to pretax income by $11.2 billion." Think you need to be a little more clear. Self-contradictory sentences leave the impression of utter ignorance or, at the very least, very poor communication skills.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:22 | 1459041 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

I am sure there is a planet deep in the universe where the logic of that sentence would be ackowledged. Just not here on Earth. 

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 09:20 | 1459039 Karl Napp
Karl Napp's picture

Why do they have any loan loss reserves? Losses have to be carried by the taxpayer!

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 10:06 | 1459164 twotraps
twotraps's picture

What a joke.  That we even pay attention is even more sick.  The govt and now banks operate out of Pretend Accounts with no basis in reality.  Where is 'value' when the entire system (europe included) treats it as a silly game.    Pathetic...put a politician in charge and you are fucked.

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 10:08 | 1459178 twotraps
twotraps's picture

Actually....we just need to find the opportunity, expecting things to change or trying to figure out the next level of stupidity and rule-bending is pointless.  At some point, there will be a big fat chance to make some money off this, we just need to find it.  

Fri, 07/15/2011 - 11:01 | 1459339 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Private analysts can't figure out what "lies" in the bank's financial black box either. So the caravan moves on. Banksters continue to determine the desirable number for a quarterly result and work their way backwards. Same as it ever was...since Q2 09 especially. The numbers ignite the bonus machine.

Sat, 07/16/2011 - 08:28 | 1461890 highwaytoserfdom
highwaytoserfdom's picture


Bove Dick says buy.. You short as much as possible.

Bove Dick has made me so much money being wrong..

reverse split close was at 44.16 close 38.38 That is a 13% decline on a FED sponsored insolvent. Of course made 10 times that on levered shorts.. If you believe in free markets then this TBTF is insolvent. From ZeroHedge 2-billion-reserve-releases-generate-half-pre-tax-income

Since Q2 2009, loan loss reserve changes have reduced pretax income by $5.6 billion and added to pretax income by $11.2 billion. And that is what in the New Normal, is called "Income".

The FED has pumped paper into reserves. 

There is a Hobson's choice on the TBTF liquidation on FED transparency or the same fate as the Japanese banks of the 80's.. It is not like we have not seen this before.. 

Bove Dick is an verb for TBTF criminals or as Lloyd says "God's Work".

Yahoo needs a button for "Liquidate". 

Sentiment : Strong Sell

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