CITI's New APR = 30%, They're Toast
I got a nasty letter from Citi Bank recently. They are raising the APR on my credit card to 29.99%.
This
is a losing strategy for Citi. Larry Small, the former Citi CEO built
the bank into a powerhouse by leveraging global consumers. Now they are
stabbing those clients in the back.
I have been doing business
with C for thirty years. I have borrowed from them and paid them back a
number of times. I don’t owe them a penny and I will be closing those
accounts. I don’t want to do business with people who try to put muscle
on me. The end result will be that the only consumers who will do
business with C are those who have no intention to pay back those loans
in the first place. Talk about a bad bank.
The NYS usury law
sets the top rate at 16%. I am sure that Citi’s legal guys have found
an angle around this. No doubt the rules are more favorable in S.
Dakota where this letter originates. I live in NY and last I saw Citi
had its headquarters here. This appears to violate the spirit of the NY
statute. Possibly AG Cuomo will have an answer. I will ask him.
Citi
is owned by the taxpayers as a result of TARP. It is receiving billions
in additional subsidies monthly in the form of zero interest rates from
the Federal Reserve. One would have thought that they might have gotten
the message by now that abusive lending was ‘old school’.
(8 votes)
»
- Login or register to post comments
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 19:53
#107659
It is our duty, wherever possible, to not use credit cards at all.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 19:58
#107666
+1000
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:43
#107729
Yes, no CC.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:47
#107733
No. It is our duty to default on them cards.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 02:17
#107986
Radically default GG
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 03:43
#108005
Absolutely, Mr. Kendig, absolutely.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 04:39
#108015
commie. traitor. terrorist.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 15:45
#108515
This is how 100% disabled WAR veterans shop for Ramen & Dinki Di. When you dare to join the 1%ers then I might give a flying fuck about your verbiage or for those your marvelous cynicism refer to.
Truth be known you should use "Killer Angel" as being more appropriate..
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:23
#107777
+1
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:32
#107783
well that is one option. another option would be to max it out and not pay them. that will teach them to mess with mother nature....
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 03:44
#108006
+1000
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:08
#107879
An interesting pertinent aside--I received a similar leaflet from Wall Street's least insolvent TBTF shell of a former bank, JPM, which said that my Fixed 8.99% APR CC terms have changed to Variable (Prime 3.25% plus 8.74%), lifting 200 BPS overall, effective the billing cycle starting Dec 1, 2009.
I can't wait until the Fed raises the target funds rate in 2030.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 19:59
#107669
I got one too. Denninger's got a post about it today too.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:08
#107677
The easiest way to give these guys the finger is simply to not give them your business. Small consumer debt might be a drop in the bucket of their total revenues, but at least you aren't willingly giving them your hard-earned (or ill-gotten, depending) gains in that instance.
It's when the govt gives these crooks taxpayer dollars that we all get screwed.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:15
#107684
"I have borrowed from them and paid them back a number of times."
Bruce the problem is that they don't respect weakness.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:59
#107752
Hahaha...EXACTLY! Stop paying them and THEN they come BEGGING.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:46
#107807
no, that is incorrect. citibank will not come begging, but they will come suing....:)
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:52
#107868
No, an agency who bought the debt for 10 cents on the dollar will sue you once you've reached your state's statue of limitations. THEN, you get a lawyer and settle for 1/2 of the original balance. You can even pay them monthly at 0 % interest. Hell of a lot better than running on the 30% treadmill of futility.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 05:00
#108021
Not as entirely off-topic as it may seem:
I know of a construction company that has raised the non-payment art form to the level of a science, at least some years ago.
The company will enter into an agreement to purchase, say, construction materials. Whenever possible, they avoid granting any security interest in anything. All goes smoothly until the items purchased are handed over. Once the purchaser company has possession of the materials, the non-payment fun begins.
They will ignore all dunning letters, phone calls, polite and angry requests.
This continues until a complaint is filed.
They then refuse to accept service of the complaint.
Once the complaint is validly served, they make a settlement offer, usually around $.40 on the dollar, payable immediately by wire transfer of immediately available funds.
The creditor has a valid claim and the debtor has no serious defenses. A contract was signed, the contract was legit, the creditor, vendor, etc. all performed according to the letter and spirit of the agreement.
However the creditor also knows that the debtor will stall the trial and enforcement processes as much as possible, exhaust the appeals procedure, etc.. to the maximum extent permitted by law. The debtor is happy to broadcast this fact.
Faced with a choice of waiting years for its money or getting something now, the creditor usually can be convinced to settle for around $.60 on the dollar.
Of course, the settlement is made subject to an NDA, the creditor agrees not to inform credit bureaux, etc..
Should anyone spout off the (undeniable) fact that the company have engaged in legal robbery, they immediately sue for violation of the NDA.
Obviously, the lender and vendor never do business with this company again, but there are plenty of banks and vendors to defraud.
Thanks to their amazing ability to produce low bids (since their costs are lower than those of honest competitors), this company has (or at least had) plenty of business. The owners of this illustrious construction company are flying around in private jets. I have no clue how they pay for the jets, their pilots or their fuel bill, but all the same, that says a lot about America today.
On the other hand, while my disgust for this company is probably evident, I do not feel the same about stiffing credit card companies or walking away from an upside-down mortgage. In the case of the card companies, I am not entirely sure why.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 10:28
#108213
I also knew someone who did business that way. It was back in the 80s, and they usually dealt with smaller contractors. This developer would then wait until those small businesses went bankrupt for lack of cash flow. That way he would hopefully not owe them anything. However, I think his son served some time in federal prison (on an unrelated charge).
It doesn't matter what Citi does now; I think they will be dismantled piecemeal over the next few years. This 30% letter is actually a timely warning to the smart customer.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 11:08
#108271
damn, sounds exactly what i did to ciitbank. :)
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:02
#107874
If you do it the right way, suing isn't gonna do them much good - if, in fact, they find it worthwhile to sue. Normally they'll just beg you pay some percentage of it and be done with it. And it doesn't hurt to have all your bases covered before you default.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 14:26
#108508
Actually, no. According to their own terms, they will come bindingly arbitrating.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 14:30
#108511
Actually no, they won't. According to their own terms, they will come bindingly arbitrating.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 14:30
#108512
Actually no, they won't. According to their own terms, they will come bindingly arbitrating.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:16
#107686
PS get rid of the bar codes they contain your entire life's history
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:19
#107693
Bruce,
If you had just failed to pay a few times and coughed up $39 for late fees they would've let you slide. But sadly they are alienating their best clients who pay on time and in full every month. Who runs a business that way??
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:33
#107786
Ken Lewis. Next question.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:15
#107885
They don't consider clients who pay on time in full every month to be their best clients. In fact, they have a name for clients who pay on time in full every month.
That name is "deadbeat".
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:59
#107923
This "deadbeat" closed his CITI and BAC cards last month after ten years... when he got the letters of rape and pillage from said offenders,without a coupon for a free sample of soothing vasoline. This deadbeat never had a late payment. They may not have made any interest on me....but now they wont get the merchant discount revenue or fees either.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:42
#107949
[They don't consider clients who pay on time in full every month to be their best clients. In fact, they have a name for clients who pay on time in full every month.
That name is "deadbeat".]
I'm not sure that's actually the case any longer.
When the economy was in non-swirling around the toilet bowl-mode, people who Paid In Full (PIF) every month
*might* have been considered more trouble than they were worth by the card companies as far as the cost of maintaining their account, providing them with customer service, etc. vs. the business they would bring in (i.e. interchange fees and nothing else). The PIFers were, of course, compared to the (typical?) dickheads who would max out/nearly max out the card, and then be on the hook for all kinds of interest and fees.
In Q3 2009, however, I think the card companies have woken up and realized that getting part of something is better than getting all of nothing. And the card companies just might be starting to prize people who PIF because 1) the percentage of people defaulting on their cards is sky-high right now and 2) those interchange fees that PIFers generate is revenue that is entirely risk-free (as compared to their wringing their hands while they wait to find out if Joe Cardholder is going to default on his thumping great balance or not).
Sure, in the days when defaults on credit card debt were low, the card companies might have held their PIF customers in some contempt. Now, however, I don't believe they can afford to. At least, that's my own (likely) childish and naïve take on all this.
That said, this 30% interest rate thing sounds like an attempt to cash in on stupid people, plain and simple. Seriously, I think Citi is doing nothing more than relying on people not reading/not being able to read those notification letters, then cashing in on the New and Improved interest rate.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:21
#107697
In S.D, there is no limit on interest rate charged. I have citi cc and I also have my Mtg and my bank accounts with them as well. So far I haven't got my $26K CC limit slashed or got a letter regarding changes to my rate.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:22
#107700
All the credit card companies are losing a ton of money this year and next from credit losses. High rates are part of the equation of losing less money (as is dropping marginal credit risk customers). Less money lost is less support needed from the taxpayers and a quicker exit/payback of government money. So to those carrying balances on your cards and paying high or higher rates, thanks for saving 50% of us some tax dollars.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:24
#107702
I have the 29.99% myself. Chase recently bumped up to 22.99%. All this despite an excellent credit score. All of the major banking institutions can rest assured that they well never see a another penny from me. I'm done. Smaller local banks from here on out, PERIOD
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:27
#107711
This is why my wife and I do not have any credit cards, from any bank.
And never will.
Fuck em!
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:44
#107802
this part of the grand financial conspiracy started in about 1965. buy now, pay later and has been a burden on amerikans for a very long time. what you do is live within your means. most amerikans do not understand this logic.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:29
#107714
Citi Sucks!
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:34
#107717
hsbc reduced my credit limit below my outstanding balance. I quit paying and taking their calls. that was 3 months ago. I just got a letter offering to settle for 52%. I'm gonna hold out for 30% F- you hsbc, who screwed who? feels good
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:54
#107739
Excellent move delacroix. Hold out till 10%. What's the rush? As far as I am concerned none of the TARP credit card assholes are getting a single cent out of me as long as I am alive.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:37
#107790
Nicely done. May I suggest you follow-up with a letter telling them they've been pre-approved to get 1/3 of their money back.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:05
#107822
Thas hilarious
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:15
#107886
Great line Daedal!
Have you noticed that ATM fees have gone up (3.00?) and the banks have a ridiculous 10% difference between buy and sell on currency rates.
It really is out of control on top of our 0% interest return on our deposits.
A pound of flesh indeed.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:20
#107895
Touche! Don't forget the "I can change my mind anytime I want" disclaimer.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 13:16
#108451
Don't forget the fine print: Introductory rate of 0.00% APR. If the bank doesn't lock in your 1/3 repayment offer within 30 days, the rate jumps to -29.99%.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 20:01
#109005
I read this a couple times before it sunk in. Hilarious! -29.99%! Shit how long till they owe you??? Same logic. Just as legit!
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 06:47
#108040
I just came all over myself.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 09:24
#108128
+18 Billion
This is the best idea I've heard in a long time.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:35
#107718
The NYS usury law sets the top rate at 16%. I am sure that Citi’s legal guys have found an angle around this. No doubt the rules are more favorable in S. Dakota where this letter originates. I live in NY and last I saw Citi had its headquarters here. This appears to violate the spirit of the NY statute. Possibly AG Cuomo will have an answer. I will ask him.
I can't cite chapter/verse or case law, Bruce, but I think this matter is already settled law, likely to do with the national association (N.A.) deal and having a federal regulator vs the NYS Dept of Banking. The credit card group has been hq'ed in s. dakota for years even when i was in banking up through 2000.
Any company that treats their customers in this fashion is going to end up toast (unless owned by the government).
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:12
#107768
I think at this point it makes a lot more sense to anybody who has a credit card to buy Gold and Silver with it, default on the damn card and then pay 20-30% of the balance to settle the account (if you want to i.e.) sometime in the future in wildly devalued dollars. With the PM bull taking off, this is also the most appropriate time to do it. Use the bankers tool of theft-via-inflation AGAINST them.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:39
#107793
well what happens is they usually will say that it is south dakota law that is binding and not your state law for interest rate limitations etc. at least they will try. some states go along with it. some don't. it is in the fine print on that thing they sent you with the card , called the card holder agreement. if you want to humbug with citibank, they will most certainly do the thing with you, that is for sure. they are the worst of the worst. they sue anybody and anyone at any time for anything. they are the sorriest bastards and the biggest crooks you can ever imagine. i don't know which is worse. citibank or crapital one....
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:42
#107727
Sure glad we bailed these guys out, thank good our financial system is intact and credit is still flowing!
They did same thing to me...I called to ask them not to given I was a long-term dream customer...I always paid them, I sometimes carried a balance, I had even paid them for their stupid overpaid credit-watch crap but they said they couldn't give me an exception to this 29.9 rate because I had a late payment a few months before when there was bunch of lay-offs at my work and I frankly was not paying attention. I had berated them out of the late fee because the payment was ONE day late...but now I supposed to be stuck with 29.9.
So I am keeping the card so as not to lose credit or hurt my credit rating, I'm transferring my small balance to another card thru USAA who has always treated me reasonably, I'm cancelling the credit watch crap and will only use this card once or twice a month for some very very small charges enough to keep it "active". They just kissed easy money good bye, no transactions, no creditwatch crap, no interest.
To others who can't pay off card...if someone has a few thousand on a card they can't pay, how long does 30 percent take to bankrupt them...what is an average salary, 40-50k...how long can a 40k person with kids take on 30 percent interest on several thousand dollars.
Even with knew bankruptcy laws, the banks are killing themselves as the people bankrupting on them in the future with have nothing to ever pay them a dime. But what do Citi employees care, they will be rich by end of year, who cares about thier governement owned company.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:49
#107735
I already defaulted on my Citi card last year. I got my TARP money back. Make sure you get yours.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:52
#107740
nice work, but unless you had an amazing credit line, doubt you got your per capita portion of TARP
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:04
#107876
Something is better than nothing.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:56
#107747
Gordon,
I don't normally roll like that, but I get so angry, well, damn.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:20
#107773
Neither did I, until I realized the FRAUD that the banksters were perpetrating, after which it seemed fair game to me. You think 30% interest is too much? Wait till you find out that the money on which they are charging interest IS CREATED OUT OF THIN AIR I.E. DOES NOT BELONG TO THEM.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:55
#107922
I was just gonna say, you aren't defaulting on money they took from someone else. This money is created out of thin air through the magic of fractional reserve lending.
Giving them the right to charge interest on it is pure theft. It can't be justified in any way.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:52
#107957
It's not even "fractional reserve" right now, since they don't bother with the reserves part anymore. It's just "lending" (out of thin air) now - an out and out fraud.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:27
#107901
Beautiful! I wish I had thought of that. Let's think big, what say we pick one of us to take out a large loan from C and the rest of us all buy credit default swaps against that loan defaulting. At that point our hero can default and we'll all cash in.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 20:53
#107743
Bruce,
Did you call the bastards? I have this card, I have no balance, and I have always paid everything on time. They even let me have 27 thousand for a couple of years at 1.9% (I paid off a 9% student loan, then paid citi off early). When I have called in the past, they have always bent over backwards to calm me down. It's like they try it on for size, if you don't protest, you get stuck, if you do, they lower it from where is was before they tried it.
If you know you are dumping the card anyway, why not call and threaten to dump it and see what happens next?
Or is it truly a brave new world???
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:02
#107757
No they just try to be as random as possible pretending there is some rhyme or reason behind it. Some people they go after and try to fuck, some they let slide. etc. It just sort of follows who can we suppress today rules.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:55
#107816
I hate these guys. I just want out. That I have to call them to get this fixed does not suit me. They send this stuff to me and it is over. One strike and your out. Shit Heals.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:30
#107841
Their loss Bruce. I don't have a term that covers the short sighted depravity these folks are exhibiting with this behavior. Sounds like you are already gone:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RhHpEFz9pD0
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:34
#107787
Bruce, join the club. They have had me at 29.99% even though my credit has been perfect for about 15 years and my credit score is close to 800. They are IDIOTS!
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:39
#107792
My experience was like the guy above who had the late payment - I had forgotten about mine and they pointed out my rate was not jumping from 14.99% to 29.99% as I thought but from the higher 24.99% to 29.99% due to the late payment a few months back. Not that that makes it all better...but better than the 15% hike I originally though it was. I take responsibility for my credit cards so - the fault was mine, I did pay late and those were the terms in place for doing so when I took the card - so it is what it is. They did talk to me about an interest rate credit if I pay on time so really I will not be paying any more in %. I'm in process of paying off all my credit anyway so I'll pay for a few more months and be done with it. I don't like it but I ran up the balance when I couldn't really afford it and paid late so I have learned my lesson......and will use cash in future and live within my means. I'm not happy about the situation but these are the times and I'm the one who got the card in the first place and mismanaged it. I don't blame them...I just choose to change how I operate going forward.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:29
#107904
Thanks for sharing your entire credit history with us.
My experience, call and state you have been a good customer all these years and they typically waive the late fee (on vacation). You can also negotiate down the rate, although I only pay off the cards and use it for the 1% off on all purchases, 5% on groceries cash back at year end (best card I found out there if you pay off cards and want a price discount- American Express Blue Cash).
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:41
#107795
I suspect its their way of saying we don't want YOU!
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:42
#107796
I literally received an email offer from Citi while reading this - for a 2% CD.
My not-so-subtle reply for whomever may read it...
FUCK YOU CITIBANK!!!
I'm sure that 2% CD will cover the arse-raping you're currently giving me by jacking my rate up to 29.99% on my Citi CC.
Guess what? I'm just waiting on my cashed out 401(k) check to come and I am going to pay off all but one dollar on this card just so I can screw you on administrative costs every month.
You've lost your damn minds and I'm responding the best way I can - taking any profit you could ever make off of me again and making you pay for my account being open.
Bastards, the lot of you.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:42
#107798
Why deal with a broken, insolvent corrupt bank that does not care about anything except staying alive. They should be dissolved and would have been except for this ridiculous bail out. Check out local community banks that have not been involved with all the crap that is still festering in the insolvent banks.
We have 1 credit card and always, always pay it off every month or we do not use it until we have the cash. Not using a card is great. Debit cards work but the broken banks are trying to add fees there also.
Does "broken Arrow" mean anything to you guys.
Makes me want to spit.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:08
#107826
Same here... One card, paid every month in full. It's not even with Citi, I never like them, same as never liked any other big bank...
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:44
#107804
Lothar, a better idea. Pay 1 dollar over the total due. This way they have to send you a statement for 3 months and cannot charge you even a dime. That really pisses them off.
Just a thought.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:47
#107861
I like it. A lot.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:45
#107805
they think by increasing interest rates they will increase revenues. that idea is about as stupid as it gets.....i think it comes from desperation. its the end of the line for these banks. they are in big trouble.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 21:46
#107808
that is the way it is
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:20
#107834
Yeah, just call them and threaten to close the account. They reduced my interest rate from like 15 to 7.99 percent that way. It especially helps if you have no balance.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:39
#107849
I've got good credit, zero balances and Chase raised my rate to 13.94% just because. BofA cut my limit by 1/3 just because. Any of my cards try for an annual payment and it's shredder time. To hell with them.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:39
#107850
If you don't pay your card, how do you expect them not to increase the APR ? This is not like your govt handing out unemployment checks by turning on the press. As much as i don't like Citi or other TARP banks, i at least want a little honesty from us public and start living within our means. We can get out of the current mess if we get back to the basics.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:42
#107855
Bruce I'm not sure how you ended up with Citi. I by geography have had a wachovia bank account since I was 10. I'd deposit my allowance n draw out a lil for candy. I know one day the goldenwest-wachovia-wells monstrosity will screw me like citi has screwed you. Thirty years with citi...shit man...brave new world indeed.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:44
#107856
I have a few accounts (a large one at C)
They sent me the same letter today so I called and threatened to move my money.
They put a "senior banker on the phone" and I was assured they "overlooked" something and that my rate would remain unchanged.
After 10 minutes of being verbally massaged over the phone...I pulled my money out anyway and closed my account.
fuckem
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:52
#107869
That's what I'm saying Bruce. Go Pizza Dude.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:08
#107877
Way to go, pizza man!
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:45
#107951
i love you man!!! you are my new hero!!!!!!!!!!
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:48
#107863
Since nobody's said it yet today (that I have noticed)
Jump! you Fuckers!
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:55
#107871
Wouldn't it be awful to be one of the folks that answers phones for these asswipes. You know jobs are hard to find, and you gotta do this? Easier to be a prostitute. It's more honest.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:59
#107925
The Indian folks I usually get on the phone seem to be happy.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 02:31
#107989
Beautiful spike ghost!
Is Pandit the Bandit an outsource too?
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 22:50
#107864
They sent me a similar letter but it never impacts me as I just pay my balance every month. If you aren't able to do that you deserve to pay whatever they are charging you.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:14
#107884
The rules are simple:
1. The ones who don't carry the balance do not care while collecting whatever rewards,
2. The ones who can't pay do not really care while piling up the balance till citi cut off the card,
3. The ones who are in the middle of 1 and 2 above are the ones got really screwed up and will do whatever they can to become one of the two mentioned above.
Any way, citi is very much screwed and so is the whole consumer economy. It is high time to tell all your friends, family and loved ones that this christmas you will respectfully request no gifts from them whatsover and you will do the same.
The new nationwide sport is "Paying off the credit card drive."
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:51
#107917
Or much better - "Defaulting the hell out of credit cards drive".
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:01
#107927
For years my family has donated to charities in each other's names for Christmas. Less tacky than giving money, you do something good, and get the tax writeoff.
Consumerism is for shallow people.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:49
#107954
excellent way to avoid the disgusting commercial
crap of christmas....
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 02:40
#107993
I agree with you, but I am weak for my son at holiday time. He is genuinely happy and grateful and takes care of his things. He does not whine, or ask for stuff, and frequently worries stuff costs too much and he will often pass when I offer a treat. I see parents with label conscious whiney kids (he sees right through all that) and feel grateful I don't have to hassle with those kinds of conflicts.
I like to spoil him a little. I will not go into debt to do it.
But we are starting to discuss the charity idea. Other family members further out seem resentful when you suggest it. I'll shut up because this post could get too long.
I am thinking about giving them silver, instead, and an education on the economy.
on Thu, 10/22/2009 - 23:47
#107912
The correct answer is to only charge as much as you can afford to pay upon receiving the bill. Carry no balances and you will not care if they want to charge you 300%.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:05
#107930
You wonder what the limit is, don't you? I have one card that I barely use (it is a bitch to rent a car without a card - doable, but a real hassle), and it is like they keep jacking the rate up in case there is one time I forget to make a payment (which hasn't happened in years since I have a recurring calendar appointment that reminds me to pay the credit card, running until 2030 or something).
It is getting ridiculous - what are they going to do, jack the rate up to 3000000%?
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:03
#107929
"The end result will be that the only consumers who will do business with C are those who have no intention to pay back those loans in the first place. Talk about a bad bank."
terrific point, bruce, on the adverse selection that accompanies high CC rates...
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:10
#107933
Just close your account. These guys are running a business, and will have lost a long standing relationship (bad business). Pleading to the Attorney General, even if you are privileged enough to have that kind of access, seems a bit juvenile though.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:51
#107956
no it's not juvenile.....when someone misbehaves
standing by idly doing nothing is hardly an
act of valor.....it is one of the leading
reasons why we are in the mess we are....
i hope he follows through...
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 03:04
#107995
"Pleading to the Attorney General, even if you are privileged enough to have that kind of access, seems a bit juvenile though."
It is probably legal, but why judge this as juvenile? How else can he find out if he is a victim of usury if he does not ask?
No attack intended here, but this kind of passivity is what is giving all of these crooks licence to steal from us as individuals and as tax payers. It may not be worth the trouble to you to resist, but what of the next one after you who is not as savvy as you are?
They need to be afraid of us. They need to know damn well we know our rights.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 11:39
#108305
Mscreant - there's no fraud here... they're being very transparent about what they want to charge... nobody's a "victim" - these guys aren't being crooks (they are crooks but not because of this).
You're rights? HA! How long are you going to have your "rights" when everytime somebody does something that you don't agree with, you run to tell daddy politician? It's exactly that kind of thinking that makes business people think its ok to use the government against you... and they will win, as they are 1. more organized 2. have deeper pockets 3. more politically savvy
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:45
#107952
Hey, folks, do what I did.
Last September when it looked like it was all going to shit I paid off both C cards and closed the accounts - because it looked as if they would go under and wee wouldn't be able to cash in the rewards points anyway.
Closed our BAC card for the same reason and moved both the wife's checking account and mine from Skank of America (she'd been there 24 years and I had been there for ten).
We then moved to our friendly local Credit Union where we have a Visa account iwth a 5K limit (all we will ever need) at 8.99% APR. With the Amex for the Swordfish's travel we have all the plastic credit we'll ever need or use.
Except for travel or emergencies we use cash and the CU Debit cards. Plus the CU gives me immediate credit for checks I receive in the course of my business (no 3-5 day "holds"). Plus, they are nice friendly local folks.
Cheap fixed-rate mortgage (we live in a HOUSE not an ATM), two well-maintained paid-for older cars, clipping coupons and watching sales - thrift can be fun.
But the new trim pump and compensating tank and risers for the U-Boat - well, that's another story.
KptLt. Laughing Swordfish
9er Unterseeboote Flotille
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 04:23
#108012
:D
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 00:54
#107959
this is the real boston tea party....close all credit card accounts and do what laughing_swordfish did by removing business from the vampire squid banks.....
fuck citibank, boa, jpm, gs, ms, hsbc, wachovia, db...
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 01:21
#107968
Money that is loaned and held by credit card companies never existed. It is not included in any of the "M" figures. It is the worst form of money from thin air. The interest rates similar to loan sharks. Perhaps the only difference is that you won't be beaten to a pulp when in default (unless you count war)
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 01:23
#107972
Money that is loaned and held by credit card companies never existed. It is not included in any of the "M" figures. It is the worst form of money from thin air. The interest rates similar to loan sharks. Perhaps the only difference is that you won't be beaten to a pulp when in default (unless you count war)
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 01:27
#107973
Hey, you think you've got it bad in the 'ol US of A? Check out what Citi does internationally.
I live in Mexico where Citi owns the 2nd biggest bank here, Banamex. It's really one of their jewels and has made money hand over fist all during the crisis, as have all the big international banks here, who own like 90% of the banking system.
It's hard not to make money when you're charging 100% interest on Credit Cards. Yes, you didn't misread that, 100%, or more, annual interest. There are store cards charging way more, like 150%.
Ain't legal usury grand?
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 02:32
#107988
It appears that Citi has decided against attempting to leverage whatever remains of the franchise value of its consumer credit division by selling it or merging it with BAC 's unit, Capital One or Discover and have elected to let it wither and die on its own.
There is a building narrative in here somewhere for Citi, and by extension the government that approves of all Citi decisions to pursue this option outside of the catastrophic stupidity of thinking millions of consumers, even American consumers will just swallow 30%.
Regardless, Citi is taking the Dollar Tree & Quick Loan Funding business models and applying them to the whole of the Citi franchise. Stupendous!
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 03:02
#107998
Emphasis on the "stup" in that, eh? Add an Id to it and you have super-ego-less greed reigning over the situation.
Hope you are well tonight Miles. I never know if asking is the right thing. Letting your mind drift across the net to meet ours must help you leave your body. Calling attention to how you are may not be helpful. But I do wonder if you are okay. I trust that you can tell netfriends what is best for you and to know where our hearts are as we ask.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 15:19
#108567
MsCreant, you and Minnesota have been mixing I see... :-)
Acceptance is a beautiful space dear friend. Do not be concerned with calling attention as this aspect is simply part and parcel of the human condition of experience. Experience that was mine to choose as an "engager" of life. As is much of what we discuss. What is best are moments like this one provided by Bruce where we can shine a bit of light, acknowledge a shared experience and stir the pot.
I certainly hope I can tell! Wouldn't be half so much fun otherwise.... After all, eyes still work and I have elected to attempt to lead by example in my goal of Screen Some Rot. CD can tell ya if you missed it.
Peace Sis
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 04:52
#108019
Has anyone thought about this?
Do you think that, besides the greed mongering, that this has something to do with the banks selling off their ownership of Mastercard and little over half of Visa? Maybe the revenues are going elsewhere, but the banks are holding the debt?
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 05:30
#108024
in 2003 Citibank issed a $25,000 cash payout that was aplied against a mortgage, because the applicant didn't know how to fill in the form and thought the mortgage reference (someone else's by the way) would get her the card and who ws not legally present in the United States, nor legally employed nor even paying taxes.... but Citibank USA credited (my) mortgage which I ended up having to refinance because.... I won't go into the rest but F(*K Citibank. all I ever got from them were threatening letters.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 06:42
#108037
Have we forgotten that C is being run by Geithner?...They don't take a piss without a hall pass from Geithner!
Do not deposit cash in ATM...The roaches are taking the cash...they know the food will be no more very soon. If you or someone you know is missing a cash deposit. Tell them you have your receipt and your calling, NYPost, WSJ and Fox news and AG in your state. You will amazed how fast they credit your account with your missing cash...
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 06:45
#108039
File your complaints on-line with the consumer division of the Federal Reserve and the Office of Comptroller of the Currency. The Mega Banks hate this because they have to respond in writing to these agencies.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 16:00
#108649
Thanks for the suggestion. I just finished filing my online complaint with the OCC. I've been spewing a lot on several discussion forums for the past couple of days, but wasn't sure to whom I should send a formal complaint that might make a difference. Or at least, as you said, cause Citi just that much more of a headache in being forced to respond to my complaint via the federal agencies.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 07:14
#108045
Its matter of convinience VS principles.
I have stopped using my CC from the last month. First on the list was AMex. The only credit cards I shall be using are the ones issues by Credit Unions. They seem to have reasonable rates and by the way, all Credit unions are non-profits.
If I dont give them my 15K/per year transactions, and they usually make a 1% on it in tx fees, that would lose 150 per year per customer. And a million customers do this, it would amount to 150mill. It may be a drop in the bucket, but it is just a start. For Amex, it can be disastrous, as their transaction fee and commissions are even higher.
When companies act like Shylock, we need to cut them in their roots. Anyway, with massive consumer deleveraging, I would like to see how they are earn.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 07:19
#108047
You should be happy, average APR in Brazil is a bit more: 150%
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 09:53
#108160
I am in the process of moving my CCs and checking accounts from BAC to Schwab, where I already have my investment accounts. MUCH better rates and service on everything from MM accounts to mortgages. FWIW.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 11:21
#108284
its amazing that the first year that the banks dont make massive profits (keep in mind their average profit margin has been 21% for years) that they will result to wholescale rape of their customer base.
I got my citi letter on Oct 12. Paid off the balance on the 13th, and closed the card on teh 14th. I don't expect them to be around much longer.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 17:13
#108740
You have to understand that C and BAC are so loaded down with toxic assets (the ultimate oxymoron) that without the misguided help(?) of Uncle Sucker, they would have been DOA last winter. When their common stock dropped to $1.00 per share earlier in the year, I found it tempting, but fought the urges to buy. They actively prospect for deposits, offering a whopping 2% on a 5 year CD, scanning bank account balances---then personally phoning holders to recommend consultations as if they could possibly help. All this desparation--29.9% APR , from a doomed zombie that could'nt find it's ass with both hands...AND it's ass. Pitiful. RIP, C.
on Fri, 10/23/2009 - 18:47
#108914
Glad to see the comments.
I thought about moving our business over to Schwab (where I also have a MM account) but I trade through Scotttrade and I'm trying not to commingle things. The Swabbie also has a lot of BS fees (their cartoon ads notwithstanding) and in the current environment I want to keep things LOCAL.
Besides, where I live the CU has branches all over town and the branch I use is in a supermarket with better weekend hours than the Skank ever had - in fact, the CU replaced a WFC in that same supermarket. That's what convinced me.
Starve the Beasts...