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Citizen Sues Atlanta Fed Based on Allegation that It's Issuing Federal Reserve Notes That It Has No Intention of Redeeming, Which Amounts to Counterfeiting ... Asks that Atlanta Fed's Charter be Forfeited
Scott Beach sent me this link to his complaint against the Atlanta Fed.
In his complaint, Beach points out that 12 United States Code Section 341 provides that Federal Reserve Banks can be sued, and can that they can:
Forfeit [their] franchise for violation of law.
The
complaint alleges that all of the Federal Reserve Banks (including
Atlanta) stopped allowing Federal Reserve Notes to be redeemed in the
early 2000's and that - because 12 United States Code Section 411 requires the notes to be redeemable - continuing to issue notes without allowing redemption amounts to counterfeiting.
Beach thus asks that the Atlanta Fed's charter be forfeited.
Without
commenting on the specifics of the allegations in the suit itself, I
can still say with 100% confidence that Thomas Jefferson would have approved.
So would many top financial experts. See this, this, this, this, this, this and this.
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FED = Debauchery
George, Your on the right side of it all. Don't stop. Get Tyler to put your "The big banks have sold us out" on the main thread. We need more. Sooner or later, it will make a difference. Thanks for what you do.
ZH, Tyler, Ilene, and George all rule. ZH is #1 because of people like you. Let it rip and get ripe.
Thank you - Scott Gregory Beach
I hope you win, because you are right.
The fed might argue that you can redeem a dollar for 20 nickles - which technically have intrinsic value though are not explicitly backing the dollar. This may get interesting...
I've been thinking of filing suit against the fed based on the seal on their FRN's being a direct rip off of the official seal of the USA. Impersonating a government agency. Fraudulently misrepresenting themselves as an official govt agency.
Joo confetti.
Redeemable!?
That is laughable once you realize the paradigm.
What can be done about it? Yes, they will pile on another Trillion Shmillion Dollars, it degrades the whole game and shows a lack of understanding of value. I should say relative value as its still worthless paper crapola...How long did Italy make it with the Lira?
To bad he didn't sue in a County court then he would have had some standing.
He sued in federal territory. TFB for him. Nice try though. More fuel for the "frivolous" fun friends faking federal jurisdiction within you're local habitation.
Know your rights. Make it the Governments job to prove you wrong and be right about it.
Tunga out.
Concur.
Nice weapon this.
Maybe "Real Money" does mean gold or silver (See "Bimetalism" or "Alice Through the Looking Glass"). The interesting part in this mess we're in is the absence of THE SUPREME COURT!!!
Anybody seen 'em lately? It has been said that the Supremes don't read the Constitution, they read the election results. 'N from time to time they decide to do something waaaaaay out there because they can ( Where did they get their power to declare something "Unconstitutional" or to declare that some government entity has a "Compelling Interest" or "Overriding Concern", thus rendering some otherwise "Constitutional Law" is not binding if they don't want it to be?)
We may be at the point where the Supremes are ready to do something <*really stupid*>. "We're gonna have the United States Veer Off into the Unknown!!!" and it might be at the Federal Reserve kind of level.
I asked a day or two ago that if the Supremes found Social Security Constitutional because it contributed to the "General Welfare" and had to be "National in Scope", if SS leads to Sovereign Bankruptcy and/or Civil War, does this promote the General Welfare?
We never know when these Loonies (No, no, NOT Canadadans... We're not invading you this week) will decide to step back into the picture.
If they render an opinion with the words, "Compelling Interest" or Overriding Concern", we'll know this isn't the one. But they're lurking...Waiting...
CW
for what in god's name were they redeemable?? treasuries? it certainly wasn't silver or gold.
I see cracks.....
a most encouraging news item but equivalent to pissing up a rope in this corporatist's haven
Alas, I think the key element missing from the code is implication of convertibility of FRNs into something else. If the code referenced the Constitutional definition of a dollar (something like .76 ounces of silver, i.e., the 18th Century Spanish Dollar) and/or defined a US paper dollar as a silver certificate (which I think was the explicit definition as recently as 1964) then this lawsuit becomes interesting.
But it looks like a gigantic waste of time as the notes can be redeemed for something called "lawful money". Now of since our FRNs can satisfy ALL taxes and public/private debts alike in the US, they have a nice closed loop of abstract meaninglessness.
This is where most people's heads just shut down because if you dare go a step further, then you have to look at the rectangles in your wallet and go, "WTF? I work for this? What is THIS?"
BTW did everyone enjoy the scripted exchange between FED criminal 1 and JPM criminal 1? The 5 NY families had nothing on these guys.
On the redeemable for what question, according to the Constitution it could be so many grams of either silver or gold. Since gold is on the "books" for $42/oz it would be a great swap.
you refer to Bernanke fielding Dimon?
I also found that touching.
It more easy to sue Fed on the basis that Congress can not delegate his powers
was ruled allready by supreme court
the system is very easy to be broken if we can use a a good non wej <----- laywer
good luck with that 99% of them are tainted lol
Most interesting! Milestones
drop a few more bread crumbs s'il vous plaît -- you may have your 1% here on ZH (shocker)
i think you realy dont get it
congress can not delegate it;s powers and this was ruled by the supre court allready
Thats FED weakest point.
si daca o dai in fanceza poate sapi la asta si o sa faci 2% on ZH
now dig it magis
I mean freshly "printed" ones!
All we're going to do here is watch and see how corrupt courts will define (lie about) the definition of "legal money". I'm betting that they will decide this only means trading old, worn out dollars for new, freshly minted ones...which I'm sure any Fed bank is ready to do.
Sounds great in principle, but good luck.
FINALLY SOMEONE GREW A PAIR!
Where can I send 10bucks to help out?
Let me know how that works out.
Don't listen to the "top callers"!
"To correct or not to correct" that is the question.
Over the weekend many Gold "pundits" warned of another sizeable correction to Gold and Silver.
"Who cares and does it really matter?".
The PM shares have stunk up the joint and acted poorly which has generally in the past been a tip off to downside action. The summer months have seasonally not been ideal for precious metal longs and not to forget that more and more derivatives have been launched to steer capital away from the real thing.
It does not matter what happens "this season" or this month or whatever because the fundamentals for the ownership of physical metal and the shares (direct ownership in the ground) have never been better. In fact, it's a obvious no brainer, long term, sure thing now in the metals!
Demand is strong and rising while supply has not and cannot even grow high double digits not to mention keep up with demand. Physical inventories are shrinking, backwardation persists and supply of new paper money is sure to continue and grow... grow... and grow... exponentially.
Sure they can stop "QE" at will...if they are willing to accept a global depression greater than THE Great Depression "squared, cubed or whatever".
The point is this, THE "authorities" are absolutely in a box where there are only 2 doors available to them...
1.) Stop QE and watch as the entire system implode into a deflationary black hole where EVERYTHING goes bankrupt including governments OR...
2.) Continue and expand QE exponentially 'til the cows come home and destroy EVERY paper currency on the planet!
With option 1 TPTB get thrown out and lose their power. With option 2 TPTB continue to drive the bus even though the road leads off a cliff. Which will they choose?
NO BRAINER HERE, they will try to retain power for as long as they possibly can which means they will destroy every paper currency on the planet in their efforts. By the way, even if they did choose door number 1 you would want the bulk of your assets in the metals as all roads and doors now lead to Gold and Silver!
So do we correct here or not?
Other than "it really doesn't matter".
The fundamentals win out and we get another HUGE leg to the upside in the very near future. A big correction while the U.S. piles another couple $ Trillion of debt on top of the already $14 Trillion? ... bought by The Fed during a time where The Fed creates another $ Trillion of QE to boot. In just a couple of years or less the U.S. will borrow and print more Dollars than ALL the Gold ever mined in history is valued at so why would you try to "time" exactly when "liftoff" begins and from what level?
I just don't care because I know that "we" have already won the game. The worst thing you could do now is snatch "defeat from the jaws of a guaranteed victory".
In other words, don't listen to the top callers!
www.lemetropolecafe.com
So how long do you think it will take for the vast majority to be led to believe that only by confiscating gold will the non-gold owning crowd be defended properly as the ship hits the fan?
1. Good luck with getting standing. Court loves to deny regular citizens standing vs the gov. And while Fed is not gov the aura of protection with cover them.
2. Redeemable to what?
I must admit that I know very little about this. But, since the Federal Reserve system is not the government, there is a chance there is no governmental immunity (maybe quasi governmental immunity).
That said, generalized greivances that can be brought by any citizen are generally disfavored.
But, it is going to be entertaining.
2. Redeemable to what?
"The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank".
The US is so screwed....
Take a look at ZH's macroeconomic forum and see David Merrill's adventures in redeeming "lawful money".
"Lawful money?"
Meaning what exactly? Clearly the Fed believes its Reserve Notes are lawful money, and it could just satisfy your attempt to "redeem" a $100 bill by handing you the $100 bill back, right ...?
The article didn't state HOWEVER, The Federal Reserve is required by law to maintain a reserve of UNITED STATES TREASURY NOTES. Yes, actual "money" issued by the US government without paying or contracting others to do it. FRN are supposed to be redeemable in US NOTES. Of course, said notes have not been printed since the 1960's.
USC title 12, Chapter 3 sub 411
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/uscode12/usc_sec_12_00000411----000-.html
"Federal reserve notes, to be issued at the discretion of the Board of Governors of the Federal Reserve System for the purpose of making advances to Federal reserve banks through the Federal reserve agents as hereinafter set forth and for no other purpose, are authorized. The said notes shall be obligations of the United States and shall be receivable by all national and member banks and Federal reserve banks and for all taxes, customs, and other public dues. They shall be redeemed in lawful money on demand at the Treasury Department of the United States, in the city of Washington, District of Columbia, or at any Federal Reserve bank. "Lawful money...... Gold is Lawful money in some states!
Good point. Have a resident of Utah file it against his Fed bank!
The only remaining lawful money are coins issued by the U.S. Mint. Nice lawsuit, maybe I'll file something similar against the Dallas Fed.
Great. Just great.
I give them $100 and they give me 10,000 fucking pennies back.
About a useful as last week's Rapture.
Think about it for a minute and imagine how much more coinage the Fed would have to keep on hand if people started showing up with, say, $10k FRN to redeem. They obviously couldn't, especially with base metal coinage, and that's why they stopped public redemption in contravention of the law. This conspires to hide the fact that the denominations offered by and total output of the U.S. Mint is woefully inadequate, problems that must be addressed by Congress. With growing political animosity to the Fed, it is doubtful they could force a simple correction to the existing law; in effect, a bargaining point has been raised. Not all of us want to be forced to use an electronic legal tender that can be selectively frozen on a bureaucrat's whim.
http://www.newswithviews.com/Vieira/edwin240.htm
More from Vieira:
What is a Dollar: http://www.thefreemanonline.org/columns/what-is-a-dollar/
A Crisis of Dollars and Sense: http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics-mainmenu-44/627
Not much traction so far: H.R. 1638:Dollar Bill Act of 2011 http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=h112-1638
This is all just old, archaic lingo, that should have been wiped off the Federal law books with something like FedScrub. It dates back to the days when you could actually redeem your dollars for silver or gold, which is actually the only lawful money as stated in the Constitution.
But, I guess, by today's standards, if you try to redeem a $100 Federal Reserve Note all you'll get back is a swift kick and a foot up your ass for trying.
The "Nation Bank" has forfeited returns notes to specie many times. it usually called a banking crisis. see "Bank of United States 2" and bank crisis of 1816/17.
Because a lot of people who actually know what money is will reply in this thread. I like to contribute something. A document I found submitted to congress in 1817. In it I believe is the original architecture of our current federal reserve system. no gold/silver standard, all land property is taxed,12 regional bank heads, and warning that the people must not know the mechanisation's of this design.-90 years BEFORE Jekyll Island-.
http://books.google.com/books?id=-Q5LAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA1&source=gbs_selected...
"Nothing will put us on a footing with British manufactures but the settlement of our wild lands; and that cannot be expected till an excess of population, after a series of future generations, shall compel freemen to sell themselves to manufacturing despots." bottom page 4
What so awesome about it to me is that this is before McCulloch v. Maryland so this is being proposed to a congress with little/no authority over states rights.
You have misread the document my friend. The passage you cite intends to warn the congress from such a development, not advocate it.
What is interesting is his comment regarding the economic inequality of one country selling its goods in another while enjoying the comparative advantage of 4x less the standard wage. So, in that regard, he seems to be commenting on global wage arbitration, no?
Love that globalization, 1819-style.
SO he saying that because England has so much more gold and silver then us. the cost in silver to make a good in England is 4 times higher then in America. We are like China? should we start expecting China to become next world currency reserve if history is to repeat itself?
thanks for the comment. It's a learning process.
another passage I liked.
"But is it the duty or is it in the power of the federal government to indemnify individuals or incorporated bodies for losses arising from their romantic speculations? If Banks created in the different States, have issued paper beyond all measure of discretion or prudence and find themselves depressed a suspension of payment, let them liquidate their affairs and follow the usual example of private persons under similar misfortunes." page 5
foofoojin,
Thanks for the post! As noted, it goes without saying that money has little real value other than as a means of exchange of goods and services.
And we can rationalize inflation as a tax that we pay for protection of our "store" for use at a later time. Fungable "money" has the advantage that individual "stores" can be "rented" for a fee to others so that they can borrow your "store' for their own productive activities.
But situations where the inflation "tax" becomes too much greater that the going rates for individual "rental" the populace becomes unhappy.
Has anyone looked at Ian Flemming's stuff, 'GoldFinger' comes to mind, in the light of current events? Seems to me that he was on to something.
redeemable?... ha ha ha
they will redeem it for a prison sentence for being an insolent slave.
They'll dismiss the suit of course. Hope others launch attacks on the greatest criminal enterprise ever conceived and obscured..
They'll dismiss the suit of course.
Yes, on grounds plaintiff lacks standing.
GW and Scott Beach can't see past the end of their noses.
Just another worthless GW post, move along, nothing to see here.
I've been thinking of filing suit against the fed based on the seal on their FRN's being a direct rip off of the official seal of the USA. Impersonating a government agency. Fraudulently misrepresenting themselves as an official govt agency.