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Civil And Criminal Probes Launched Against JP Morgan For Silver Market Manipulation
Yes, it is really happening. After years and years and years of market manipulation, JPMorgan is about to realize there is only so far you can push your luck against the criminal envelope. In other news, when silver doubles shortly, Andrew Maguire is about to become a patron saint to generations of long-suffering gold and silver "bugs" the world throughout.
From Michael Gray of the NY Post.
Federal agents have launched parallel criminal and civil probes of JPMorgan Chase and its trading activity in the precious metals market, The Post has learned.
The probes are centering on whether or not JPMorgan, a top derivatives holder in precious metals, acted improperly to depress the price of silver, sources said.
The Commodities Futures Trade Commission is looking into civil charges, and the Department of Justice's Antitrust Division is handling the criminal probe, according to sources, who did not wish to be identified due to the sensitive nature of the information.The probes are far-ranging, with federal officials looking into JPMorgan's precious metals trades on the London Bullion Market Association's (LBMA) exchange, which is a physical delivery market, and the New York Mercantile Exchange (Nymex) for future paper derivative trades.
JPMorgan increased its silver derivative holdings by $6.76 billion, or about 220 million ounces, during the last three months of 2009, according to the Office of Comptroller of the Currency.
Regulators are pulling trading tickets on JPMorgan's precious metals moves on all the exchanges as part of the probe, sources tell The Post.
JPMorgan has not been charged with any wrongdoing.
The DOJ and CFTC each declined to comment, as did JPMorgan.
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Completely fails to account for any sort of spiritual aspect of humanity too, so only dealing with logic.
Logic is a very important aspect of humanity, without which we'd all be like a herd of deer. Rand's point was to emphasize the need for it, as it is largely not practiced by humans in groups. "Spirituality" is just a sophisticated way to say "emotion" or "illogic".
I agree, the book needed some editing, but Rand used the repetition to hammer home her point.
# 1 currency = food/water
# 2 currency= shelter
# 3 currency = energy
# 4 currency-gold and silver-to get #1 thru 3
then you can buy papercertificates like CEF GTU PHYS and the miners.
I hate to inflate the value of +1, but this post is +1,000,000,000,000,000,000.
But I still wouldn't acquire paper of any kind. But that's because trading is not my living.
Oh, you forgot firearms. Get at least a .22 and 500 rounds. That'd set you back about $250 for a Ruger 10/22, ammo, including tax (they tax you holding FRNs, they tax you going out the door - bastards).
Yeah I would put one of those pretty high up on that list. Water is free; a good filter is not. Food, well, a .22 can procure a very large number of calories. It's almost having your cake and eating it too.
+1. Your post ventures into the grey area between the value of PM's, and the value of skills and tangibles. If you have none of the latter, you had better have one hell of a lot of the former. That is assuming we are simply in a deep, dark depression, caused by the collapse of fiat currencies. If I'm hungry, and there is no food to be bought, I will shit on your piece of gold in favor of a loaf of bread.
I have never been a rich man. But I build things, and make things grow. Every extra penny I have goes to physical PM's, but they are only part of the picture. A month ago, rather than buy more metal, I fortified and expanded my garden fence. This coming month I will buy less metal (if it is even available) because I have spoken for another German Shepherd puppy.
I'm all for PM's, but if we can't be "somewhat" self sufficient, what good are they really? My wife was teasing me a little bit today because I planted at least double the veggies in the garden we should expect to need for our family. All I know is this: Someone will eat them. Whether I give them to someone who is hungry, trade them for eggs, or sell them for silver dimes, they won't be wasted. I hoe'd up nearly 900' of rows today, while my wife and kids planted and watered. 400' last weekend. Another 400' next weekend to get it all in. That too is an investment.
How about ZERO HEDGE lobbying for WILLIAM K BLACK and PATRICK FITZGERALD to to
investigate, charge, and prosecute any wrongdoing in this matter.
There would no quarter given by either of these 2.
No way that the CPTB (corrupted powers that be) will let Black anywhere near this mess. The things Black would expose would be too much for the system to handle.Only way this corrupted system gets fixed is by its destruction
Read the Coinage Act of 1792......spells out the whole 15:1 and actually defines a dollar....BTW- it ain't made of paper!
(Starts at Bottom of Page)
http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/ampage?collId=llsl&fileName=001/llsl001.db...
We have all know for years that 3-4 big banks were short up to 3x the above ground world silver inventory. I wonder what when the light bulb finally went off for the CFTC and Deprt of Justice. Lets just hope this isn't another announcement to appease public pressure but nothing gets done.
Also, if they have finally exposed JP Morgan, how about HSBC and several other of the banks with HUGE short positions.
Read Ed Steers latest column about a 10 MM ounce short position covered on Friday. The gig is up .
http://www.caseyresearch.com/displayGsd.php
I think that GATA getting the Andrew McGuire manipulation information in to the public record of the CFTC meeting was more important than most people appreciate.
I was blown away by it myself.
Agreed, and the manipulation has been rather weak since then (Gold is up about $100 since the hearing)... but, where is the followup... no news at all on the hit and run driver, or his connections... I would hope the media would be all over this!
I am not convinced this is really going anywhere... but at least it seems the inertia has been "stirred," if not broken... one can only hope!
"The gig is up "
Now, whoever did that, was some dumb SOB......................made major jack, but, at what cost.
I hope anyone who wants PMs already bought them. I see a price spike on Monday.
Please post a link for your source of crystal balls. (Hey, don't go there, people.)
Otherwise could you give us a little insight into your prediction? How about a quantification of "spike". May we quote and ridicule you on Tuesday if you are off target?
Chillax, raccoon. I'm not a trader and I don't control the markets. Logically, though, if the PM prices have been artificially held down for years by naked shorting and other manipulations, whenever those manipulations are stopped or exposed in a way that the market at large believes, the prices will spike.
I'm chillin'. I'm not a trader either. That's why I don't make predictions. Goldman Sachs has been raked over the coals lately but that has not stopped them from doing goofy deals. Just because the metals markets are being looked at (finally) does not mean that all will be well and JPM will stop their antics.
I could, however, post what I think will happen, or what I feel will happen. I don't usually tell folks about my prognostications because at ZH one always runs the risk of being drawn and quartered. Good luck with that position, Max. People will only remember the last wrong thing you say.
I hope this isn't you RR
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MFOe_W8adM
don't watch if you are squeemish
Hahahackhackha!
"Make sure that you get all the tail this time."
"One down. Two to go."
Nah. That was old Uncle Bob. We told him to stay away from the trash cans.
"I see a price spike on Monday."
Color me sceptical, but announce the investigatio, stuff the price...see, nothing going on.
PM ETF's are useful because they can provide protection. Specifically, the etf's "gld" and "slv" have options. Buy physical and buy puts on gld and slv. The puts will cover loses in the unlikely event that the physical market crashes but if the paper PM market crashes, the physical should take off to the moon. Then it would pay both ways. Probably not the forum for this type of post but someone mentioned ETF's. Just another one of my dumb ideas.
If you think your idea is dumb why use bold italics?
How can there be any manipulation? I thought they were short not long? Isn't the definition of manipulation driving prices higher, thereby giving the populace the idea that there is a hint of inflation? If they are acting in the gov'ts interests, how can it be manipulation.
Since they're a bonafide hedger, these short positions must be offsetting all the physical a subsidiary must be holding, such as a silverware manufacturer in India, MExico or somewhere.
Round up the usual suspects. NOthing to see here.
If you don't understand how shorts can manipulate a market I strongly suggest you go and do some basic research on the subject rather than posting stuff that makes you look as dumb as box of rocks.
Someone needs to get their sarcasm meter checked.
I hope you are referring to Sabremesh's busted sarcasm meter.
Silverware manufacturing subsidiary? I tried to make it obvious!
10-4 simply yappering .. the shorts have controlled the silver market for years ,,many times xxxxx oz of silver short,
Another $10k fine coming, big deal.
I've uploaded a new DOW chart.
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/latest-market-outlook-0
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
I'm nervous about claiming mine was all stolen out from under me because I worry about that too.
Never take your PMs on a boat, they might fall overboard.
Not one for conspiracies but this is just one of the reasons we all need to support Zero Hedge as best we can. This voice must never be silenced. So much of what we read here we will not see in the main stream media. It is that important to keep Tyler and the whole gang with us.
Give what you can. As little as it may be. I just did, again.
Thank you
Zero Hedge
I'm bout to gather up a posse of some rowdy friends, tool up, and put a 24-hour body guard on Andrew Maguire.
Say, what happened to the guy who tried to harm ole Maguire? Has he been water-boarded yet? Is he still alive? Was he questioned and released? What the hey.
Payed off and retired him RR
Wish I could get a gig like that!
Silver to double shortly.
Please post a link for your source of crystal balls.
Otherwise could you give us a little insight into your prediction? How about a quantification of "shortly". On what date may we quote and ridicule you if you are off target?
19 + 19 = 38 QED
If they had let it go to a manageable 35 an ounce 6 freaking months ago double would haev been right. As it is now after europe eats every last ounce of gold this month when silver comes under pressure it will be a NIGHTMARE. I can't see silver being anything remotely resembling available to purchase by end of july.
When the PPT starts cracking and sheeple with the big 401k's that want to stay in "the system" start bailing there won't be much gold and they will chew through silver supplies like a Caligula's wife chewed through horny soldiers.
Brian Williams on Letterman on thurs - the dirty little secret is the world has NO MONEY. What happens when the masses finally awaken to that dirty little secret?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SRNrl-858qA&feature=player_embedded
Well, if he revealed that on Letterman, I guess not much.
call me skeptical. A few phone calls will be made from the invisible hands behind the scenes to the Dept of Justice and all will be found to be in order and nary a word of this ever again. The Pigmen run the show.
There is a audio conversation between maquire and the cftc..Or should I say several..They are being held right now because this investigation is going forward I suspect..Maquire went to the cftc 1st and held his end of the bargain to keep it between them, they were never going to do anything so he went to gata..He has also got the audio files of the conversations and would implicate the whole bunch at the cftc..I think gata said they couldnt release the audio because of the recording laws concerning taping of conversations..The cftc is in a vice, there will be something done in this case or we will see, or should I say Hear more than they want...
I don't believe they have a choice but to prosecute, when a charge has been filed againsrt them from evidence produced that justify the charge. Its not just going to go away until a trial by jury and a verdict with a minimum sentence required by law.
What show? This shit show?!
Silver should be $ 60.00 + an oz. now
This game JP Morgan / Chase played has Pallet Tim tied to it.
on the bright side it gave the average guy lots of time to
get in at $ 15.00 or less....
Speaking purely as a Technical analyst, what I mean by that is, speaking as a poor writer. The Silver Spot markets although dubious on occasions are rarely unchartable.
Price action does not fall outside of normal study, If and when markets are manipulated it remains "accountable". It appears even Manipulation has rules.
There's that old saying: "No one is bigger than the market"
So of course there are still rules. They can't just make it worth a penny an ounce. Other market participants keep the price from falling too much, and when they get wise to tricky tactics, they will move to counter them. This is what has happened over the last couple of months.
"How long can you trick people silver is worth $20 an OZ?" That was the game Morgan was playing for the last 20 years (In REAL TERMS 2010). The new game will be, "How long can you trick people silver is worth $40 an OZ?" That game will last a short while, as the game is growing tiresome in the face of gold being valued at its natural position of $2,599 an OZ by many; this in real terms, and in a healthy economy. Once it is noticed that we are not in a healthy economy by the masses, and gold moves to $5,200 an OZ, which should be evident next fall, the game will be, "How long can we trick people silver is worth $250 an OZ?" Then once gold is at $10,000 an OZ, silver moves to $1,200, and everybody panics it will be, "What is money?" Once the majority of people question monie, the game is over.
Fuck your game, and your couch, Bernanke.
Paper trading is the entire underlying problem of all the mess happening in all the markets. These derivatives( let's call them "gambling bets", which is what they really are and not investments), are the core root of the problem. They need to be dismanteld completely out of the markets. Paper gambling on people's mortgages ruined the housing industry. It has ruined the physical metals markets, it has ruined the commodities markets, it has ruined the oil markets. When these gambling items are removed completely from the markets and made illegal, then the markets can find their correct place and then and only then will you have real information to invest from. This needs to go further than just filing civil and criminal charges. Changes need to be made to the system. These leveraged ETF's are the worse thing ever created that are trading on the markets today. Shut them down. Stop the Wall St. gambling, make it investment grade again, and people will return to the markets. Otherwise, its a lost cause.
JPM and GS doors should be closed permanently. Giethner and Bernanke need to be tried for treason against the American people. Period.
".. let's call them "gambling bets", which is what they really are and not investments.."
While I agree with the gist of your remarks, jkruffin, I'm afraid you've fallen for the recent popular reframing of those exotic instruments, now referred to as gambling bets.
In actuality, they consist of a global financial virus, which is principally controlled by Goldman Sachs, JPMorgan Chase and Morgan Stanley (with some inputs from Citi, BofA, Credit Suisse, UBS and the silent partner of Deutsche Bank) as those three control the single concentrated block of them.
These credit derivatives, together with their ownership of the exchanges the leveraged speculation is done upon, allows the continuous rigging and manipulation of those markets.
With the way the DTCC, ICE and its various flavors (ICE Futures, ICE Clear, etc.) are structured, and the collusion of ELX futures, SwapsWire, etc., the colossal financial fraud scam is complete.
The extent of this Ponzi-Tontine truly boggles the mind when its full entirety is comprehended.....
In a control fraud situation, the players are positioned to control and manipulate everything and all situations.
It now should become apparent to all as to why the Obama Administration is riddled with former Goldman Sachs (and private equity) people. With all of them situated in positions of greatest control and potential for misdirection (CFTC, Treasury, SEC, World Bank, etc., etc., ad nauseum) we will continue to witness this ECONned dog and pony show, with no real results to speak of.
sgt_doom,
take a gander back to GW Jr's folks.......................SOS.
jk,
My sentiments exactly...................where would REAL PM's prices be, (or would have been), if you had to HOLD the shit?.
A hell of a lot higher than it has been.
Ummm hello... JPM is doing the bidding of the government here ... The suit is because they made a little extra cashish on the side that they were not supposed to. There are a bunch of banks that do the bidding of the Fed and Treasury for them in the commodities markets and JPM is the anointed one in silver.
A lot of people on this cite are convinced that the whole thing is about to crash in 1929-32 style. Are any of you Levered Net Short? Trying to get degrees of conviction here cause words are cheap.
Its midnight in the garden of fiat and specie.
Oh Five Hundred and counting.
Cracks are crawling up the pillars at the House of Morgan.
Gary Gensler has been to the moutain top...
Fiat justitia ruat caelum.
Let justice be done, though the heaven's fall.
JP Morgan? Manipulate markets? No way.
"M"anipulation?
Hell yeah!
"M"organ's "M"arket "M"akers!
Jay-Z - Lucifer:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nnedARQGOPM
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/feds_probing_jpmorgan_trades_in_gZ...
Looks like we have another whistleblower, and no company names were mentioned, yet the DOJ/FED obviously have found something to go specifically after JPM. Am I understanding this correctly? JPM will be out of business soon. Dimon in jail finally along with Blankfein.
Jail I doubt it but, if we go down that path we could invest in prison stocks because the list should be quite long beginning with Greenspan. I'd settle for my money back and silver prices up to were they belong? $50-70/ounce
IMHO - Long term... Middle Eastern cultures regard gold as money. I read that they demanded physical gold from Standard Oil during some of the original Saudi deals. So, as fiat money becomes more worthless I think that gold will always be acceptable as payment for oil. Then we'll see what gold is really worth, 10-30 yrs from now, if one can keep one's gold for that long. I think the government will want all our gold, again, if it comes to that. Get physical & "bury some in the back yard."
Silver, snitches!
I sense that this will not be good at all; that the price of silver will possibly double outside the normal market mechanism.
Seems to me you guys are missing the real point here. Who gives a crap what this means to the fate of Morgan, what does it mean to the fate of the silver market if their positions are liquidated?
JPM is short 1/3 of worlwide reserves....
I bet on a 4x increase - watch out for Gold/Silver ratio to plummet below 62 triggering a mountain of SL
Historically , the gold silver ratio normally averages at around 32 to 1 although by the end of most precious metal bull markets the ratio usually gets to a 5-15: 1 range. Right now its about 65:1. If JP Morgan and others were not manipulating it the price should be trading at at least $40 and quite frankly it shoudl be doubel or triple even that based on suppy and demand vs gold.
If gold were to top out at $10,000 an ounce then silver should top out around $750 oz. That would be if it were to follow historical ratio trends.
someone please have pity on me. i am trying to survive here. should i eschew silver and gold miners? and what about oil stocks? for god sakes , we alway will need that. is the stock market going to go away? and what about swiss francs? don't the swiss manage things pretty well?
What a country! Price controls on silver and gold, so everyone can buy some. Stock up while you can.
Is that why Jim Rogers is short JPM because of their derivative positions?
http://moneynews.com/StreetTalk/jim-rogers-short-morgan/2009/03/13/id/328806
Dont know but j.cramer told everybody on his show friday to go long jpm , lol..Even said that was his charitable fund or something like that..It was at around the 6:20 or so of fridays show..
Hat tip to Shirley Bassey:
Silver is forever,
It is what I need to please me,
Disintermediate, then feed me,
It can beat any fight,
I've no fear that it might desert me.
Silver is forever,
Hold it up and then caress it,
Touch it, feel it and assess it,
I can see every part
Neither short, fit nor start, can hurt me.
Paper is bad,
What good will paper do me?
Bullion never lies to me,
When paper's gone
It lusters on.
Silver is forever,
Like this ring around my finger,
Unlike paper, coins will linger;
Paper is for those who
Are not worth going to your grave for.
Silver is forever, forever, forever.
Silver is forever, forever, forever.
Forever and ever.
Wow! Silver's taking off in a moonshot! It's up $0.06 since the market opened 2 hours ago! /sarcasm
Obama's rating will crumble further if all they do is get fined those chump fines
Not how the game / the people are played. The fines if any, don't come out until after the election. In the mean time the POTUS is seen to be smackin the criminal banksters.
Well done retard. A hard peg implies equal supply and demand at all times of both commodities - that's never going to happen over a non-trivial span of time. A hard peg between any two variables will eventually be torn to shreds.
Appeasing the angry lynch-mob before they start doing too much thinking...