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Clashes Break Out Between Pro And Anti-Mubarak Groups In Cairo's Tahrir Square As Political Turmoil Spread To Yemen
According to Al Jazeera, pro-Mubarak forces have clashed with the revolutionaries, in a sign that the "counter-revolution" has begun, and an Al Arabiya reporter has been stabbed by those who prefer Mubarak. It also appears that the pro-Mubarak forces are arriving on horseback, camelback and in chariots. Elsewhere, Egypt's armed forces on Wednesday told protesters that their demands had been heard and they must clear the streets: we are confident that everyone will disperse promptly and quietly... Another indication of how powerless the regime is, was that curfew hours were shortened even though nobody had been following the original curfew to begin with. Most importantly, the revolutionary concerns spread to Yemen, where president Ali Saleh followed in Mubarak's footsteps and vowed not to extend his term in 2013. Alas, his term will most likely be cut off well short of that optimistic estimate.
From Bloomberg:
The Egyptian army said protesters should return to their homes, in a statement by a military spokesman on state television. It came hours after U.S. President Barack Obama told Mubarak that transition to democracy must “begin now.” Supporters of the president rallied in central Cairo and there were scuffles with protesters. Yemeni President Ali Abdullah Saleh today vowed not to extend his term in 2013 after Mubarak said late yesterday he won’t run for re-election in September.
Political turmoil is spreading through the Middle East. Saleh called for a national unity government in Yemen, Jordan’s King Abdullah yesterday sacked his prime minister, and in Algeria protesters have been killed in clashes with security forces. The unprecedented protests in Egypt, which followed a revolt in Tunisia that ousted President Zine El Abidine Ben Ali on Jan. 14, have left as many as 300 people dead and roiled international stock, bond and oil markets.
“There is no chance Mubarak can last until September, there is too much water under the bridge,” said Rime Allaf, associate fellow of the Middle East and North Africa Programme at London’s Chatham House. “The protests won’t stop until he leaves or is ousted. The opposition is clear that they want the fall of the regime, not just Mubarak.”
As usual, follow the latest development on Al-Jazeera:
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Well it should not be our problem. We need the return of a non-interventionist foreign policy. I am sick and tired of us wasting billion of dollars to be globocop.We have enough oil,natural,gas to last us for centuries. We should just leave the middle east and let the various factions destroy each other. If Egypt become san islamist states it is not our problem. We have an open border,unsustainable debt,a govt that continues to get bigger and bigger and infringe on our bill of rights. So we should jus tleave that cancer of an area. These nations ahve been fighting each other since the days of Joshua.
Well it should not be our problem. We need the return of a non-interventionist foreign policy. I am sick and tired of us wasting billion of dollars to be globocop.We have enough oil,natural,gas to last us for centuries. We should just leave the middle east and let the various factions destroy each other. If Egypt becomes an islamist states it is not our problem. We have an open border,unsustainable debt,a govt that continues to get bigger and bigger and infringe on our bill of rights. So we should jus tleave that cancer of an area. These nations ahve been fighting each other since the days of Joshua.
We don't need no water, let the motherfucker burn
"Alas, his term will most likely be cut off well short of that optimistic estimate. "
Along with his head , we hope.
Regards.
For some reason Hillary Clinton thinks this is going to work out better than when we helped the Muslims take over Pakistan.
Wait, isn't modern Pakistan a predominately Muslim chunk of India that was given independance by the British in what, 1947 or thereabouts? So, technically, hasn't Pakistan always been Muslim?
"It's not what you don't know that causes all the mischief, it's what you know that JUST AIN'T SO!" -- Will Rogers :>D
For every dead body, buy an additional share of Chipolte.
They have soylent green now?
This must be the first time I have witnessed both horseman and horse (in full motion) getting body-slammed in one swift whammy by some "angry young men". Now that's something different than Holly- / Bollywood.
Brought to you by Al-Jazeera live streaming . . . Unreal!
LMAO
Certainly you are mistaken. Yesterday I was trashed continually for making statements about this being a revolution of men.. Zina even showed me pictures of women clearly taking the forefront in this peaceful transformation to equality for all...lmao
These folks will only listen to their Inmans and Religious Leaders now - government mouthpieces aren't finding an audience anytime soon. Go long Korans and Smith and Wesson
Those have indeed have to much power over them.
I was alway the army that prevented religous faction from taking over power and those countries where the religious faction did take over power (Libya, Iran...) are the once that constantly cause problems.
Thanks to our freedom of speech here, these guys can easely call for a Jihad IN EUROPE and get away with it.
So it's very important that the transaction to democracy goes slowly and calculated.
I have a feeling we've already bought off the opposition leaders. Common US tactic.
Well, they've bought off ElBaradei and the Muslim Brotherhood, but they're bit players at this point.
The Movement doesn't seem to have the kind of leaders that White Imperialism ordinarily bribes.
you might be surprised who can be be bought off and how often
I don't doubt that it can happen. But I also know that you need leaders before you can buy them off. The problem White Imperialism has right now is that it's hard to bribe a leaderless movement.
Maybe you can drop funnymoney from a chopper ...
There's an old Arab expression, recently made popular again during the last 20 years.
"You can rent an Arab, but you cannot buy an Arab."
sero,
And there's an old African expression:
"If you shit in the road, expect flies when you return."
I can appreciate the logic. :)
I think we should all start to consider that the middle east and North Africa might become so unstable that out of those ashes a coalition could emerge AGAINST the WEST.
I'm all for the freedom and rights, but I don't want to see it turn into a power keg that can explode at any minute.
Don't forget that if 1 turns against Europe, the Islam problem in Europe could escalate and create a enemy on the borders but also from within.
Like I said, the call for freedom is all theirs. Let's hope they expect the same kind of freedom we think freedom is and not the formation of a Islamic coalition that goes against the infidels.
I'm a bit afraid of seeing this kind of anargy and the fact that they don't have a solution to fill in the vacuum of power that will open up.
Apartheid Israel will do something to intensify the situation long before the scenario you envision above.
I'm not a Israel fan but to tell you the truth, if anyone attacks them, we should support them because they are 1 of Europe's outposts and they should realise it is so.
If Israel stops it's expansion of course. If not, they may retribute, BUT NOT TAKE OVER.
Also, If dangers would increase, I think you'll see Turkey joining Europe right before the problems become really clear.
So Turkey is a flash light and Israel.
Israel was created by White Imperialism to keep the Near East divided, and it has succeeded remarkably well in this area for 60 years through a methodical policy of land theft and ethnic cleansing.
Mubarak has aided in this process, and that's one reason he's so important to White Imperialism.
The sooner White European squatters leave the region, the better off the world will be.
And I'm sorry, but Turkey will not oppose Iran and Syria and Lebanon against Apartheid Israel.
Not a lot of Jews online today...
only 1 junk....
COME ON!!! YOU CAN DO BETTER THEN THAT!!
Israel will fight to our last man.. and we will pay for that right to die for them.
40 years wandering the desert..someone dropped a siglo.
Most jews have been scared off ZH, this place is filled with either Israel bashers, anti-semites or both. Sometimes this place looks like a KKK chat forum.
I oppose apartheid and ethnic cleansing.
I used to try and fight back but you can't talk to these types. I decided that rather than allow these assholes to scare me away from one of my favorite websites, I would just ignore them. It does add an ugly element to our community, but life isn't always pretty. I am an advocate of free speech, even the worst parts of it. Thus, although I despise much of the anti-Jewish speech here, I would rather deal with it than suggest that Tyler start banning or censoring these elements.
Please, there's anti-jewish and there's anti-jewish supremacism. Read ben-Gurian's speech at the founding of the state of israel about the "superiority" of the jews-that's supremacism and it is unacceptable.
I understand the distinction, but unfortunately many here either don't, or don't care to highlight that distinction. I get tired of the implication that every Jewish person is part of a psychotic cabal that is systematically enslaving the rest of humanity. Also, the stereotypes and the generalizations are flat out ignorant, and it disgusts me. There is so much hate in the world, the last thing we need is to spread more of it. We should demand better of ourselves.
Having said that, I will reiterate that I would rather deal with the ugliness on my own than call for any curtailment of the free exchange of ideas, no matter how unsavory they may be.
From CNN:
Men on horseback and camels charged into the crowd at Cairo's Tahrir Square, some of them lashing people on the ground with whips. Several were pulled off their animals and beaten, and the others retreated. CNN's Ivan Watson said the horseback riders came from the pro-Mubarak side of the demonstration.
Tanks are sitting ducks in street fights; horses even more so. You can ram a horse. You can Molotov-cocktail any vehicle you want.
Watching this on AJ makes me wish there was an easy way to get the protestors some firepower.
Security guys are using whips on the crowd. Just watched a woman who had fallen be beaten to death, I think.
Next the army "lost" a tracked vehicle to the security forces and they're driving it through the crowd.
They are on a dangerous path now, fraught with predation.
Watch as the political system religion steps in and brings their brand of enslavement.
AJ: Mubarak's goons are arriving in pro-government buses and blocking all entrances and exists to and from Tahir Square.
So who think's Egypts banks will be open tomorrow?
I can't wait to see what happens after Friday prayer!
Like Morrison said: "Blood will be born in the birth of the nation"
Side point: Who would've believed you 10 years ago if you'd said that al Jazeera and Pravda would be far more reliable sources of world news and information that any domestic US media source?
Be careful, once you trust'm they'll start injecting little lies, their own propaganda, and you won't notice it until it's too late. See the American msm history for clues.
You can't trust any single news source. Now that our news is about 98% corporate controlled, it is all packaged for to produce the desired marketing effect.
Just think back to the build up for the invasion of Iraq --- Shock & awe, "embedded" reporters. All the networks in collusion with the government.
Think about the lack of real investigative reporting about our financial crisis and the reasons of the crash and lack of real recovery.
Even now, the contribution to worldwide food inflation by the POMO Fed action is not even mentioned on TV when the talking heads are analyzing the "causes" of the riots and revolutions in N.Africa & the ME.
Both disgusting and depressing, how badly served we have been by our leadership.
They all have ulterior motives, thankfully RT are trying to expose the anglo-american empire in order to protect Russia's interests. Good for them. But obviously they aren't allowed to critisize Russia.
Mubarak was just going to have his son installed anyway, everyone knows this.
"Down, down USA!!!
Death to the camel-riding imperialist lackeys of the Great Satan!!!!
Long live the Caliphate!"
"The great rule of conduct for us, in regard to foreign nations, is in extending our commercial relations, to have with them as little political connection as possible.Europe has a set of primary interests, which to us have none, or a very remote relation. Hence she must be engaged in frequent controversies the causes of which are essentially foreign to our concerns. Hence, therefore, it must be unwise in us to implicate ourselves, by artificial ties, in the ordinary vicissitudes of her politics, or the ordinary combinations and collisions of her friendships or enmities." George Washington Farewell Address
We need the return of a non-interventionist foreign policy. End all military aid to Saudi Arabia,Iraq,Pakistan,Israel,Jordan,Turkey,South Korea,Kuwait,Baharain. The military should be used to defend the republic,not bomb nations and killing civilians. The national guard should not be deployed overseas to fight illegal wars.
So simple, so true. A first grader can understand this.
So so sad the great experiment blew up in our face the second we looked away.
My first political argument was why are we there?
We are a nation of addicts, living the ultimate lie.
Well Mubarak said it is either me or chaos. So state sponsored chaos will reign (with alittle help from his friends in the CIA and Mossad) until he gets his way, I loved the horses being run through the crowd to incite rioting (so old school). Then he will keep his promise and retire.
His vision will guide the country to a democratic election in the fall where his son or the head of the secret police will be elected in fair election as judged by the US and international community.
p.s. I am pretty sure we will be donating voting machines and monitors.
Hosni's cossacks!
+1000000000000
This is Moubarak's final play and it looks like turning into a catastrophe for everyone involved.
Did anyone else happen to see that MSNBC is using Al Jazeera live video feeds w/o any credit or mention of that? WTF?
Everybody is caught up in the excitement of the whole thing. Established standards of behavior and etiquette are falling by the wayside.
They're both on the same team hyping the revolution Al Jazeera is the MI6 arm, MSNBC is the CIA arm. It's not about money or viewing figures right now, there's puppets to be installed.
Who wants to help write a TV script for a show called "American Puppet?"
Each week we could cover a different puppet and maybe at the end of the season viewers could vote on........."America's Favorite Puppet".......
It will become increasingly difficult to distinguish who is 'pro-Mubabrak' versus police, armed services, security services, mercenaries, paid thugs and looters.
Keep in mind that Al Capone and gang fought back and won for a long time.
Al-Jazeera down at 14:41 GMT
No live feed, no website
Al-Jazeera English too?
I'm having no luck with it this instant
It takes real men to run over women and children in tanks. These brave allies of the US. We should be handing out metals by the bucket
Just don't give them any of our precious metals.
CD and the PM crowd here might get upset.
had it playing for 6 hrs and non stop. problem is not them.
Cairo Time: new romantic blockbuster from the White House
Mubarak is just another sionist puppet ! enough of this elite masonic gang !
Why would you bring a camel to knife fight?
Anderson Cooper (CNN) has been punched '10 times' in the head by a mob in Egypt. LOL. Why the fuck would he stand right in middle of a revolution ??
That's what real reporters do. While I find CNN repulsive, AC's got stones.
Um, no he doesn't. He's an actor, and a really bad one at that.
You see that clip from Haiti where AC "rescued" a child from the rioting? Complete farce.
Word.
I'll check it out. Thanks.
Hunter S. Thompson had balls. Cooper doesn't have a singular pubic hair in comparison. 'Celebrity journalists' are more or less completely defined by the 'celebrity' part of their title. I just fear for him should they discover he is gay. Anecdotal evidence suggests that they can get quite medieval in that part of the world, although I've never been to Egypt.
Speaking of fascist shills, where in the world is EB? Wonder if she's getting a tour of the square from pro Mubarak thugs.
That is the new trend with TV programming. It gets the ratings up! Weather a snow storm or a revolution, the reporter is instructed to get right in the middle of it. Makes it more believeable too.
Good job Anderson. Good job.
http://english.aljazeera.net/watch_now/ <--------------- is blocked from the U.S. now?
The massacre shall not be televised.
....and we're back!!!
I've still got access to the feed from Livestation.
Amazing scenes of Mubarak's agents positioning themselves atop tall buildings, tossing whatever they can grab - rocks, chairs, lamps, etc. - hundreds of feet downwards onto the Square.
Despite the lack of technological sophistication, this operation - launched by the Security Services no doubt - is an effort to take secure of the 'battlefield'.
The army is complicit right now.
The operative question: where is this Movement's Nasser? Will anyone have the courage to take a stand?
Looks like Mubarak is trying to provoke an excuse to use the military.
Tough call. There is increasing evidence the Muslim Brotherhood is behind the uprising despite the good intentions of many many many.
I say keep the institutions and reform them, dump Mubarack, and keep the ban on the MB. It's death for the middle east if the MB take over. They've already said they want to shut the Suez canal and start a war with Israel. They killed Sadat and tried to kill Abdel Nasser. That's why the MB has been outlawed ever since Nasser.
The MB is run by White Imperialism.
That's why they've sat today out. Because the little knee-benders are cowards and collaborators.
They're the fallback option, since they'd have no problem accepting $2,000,000,000 annual payoffs to ally with the genocidal White imperialism.
No ambulances on the scene. The demonstrators are getting rocked and lots of chaos: nobody knows who is who.
Complete silence from the military. Tanks can't shoot on anyone because everyone looks the same. Protestors continue to hold the square, but dozens and dozens wounded from hail of rocks.
Men are at the entrances getting picked off by the Mubarak's operatives.
Incredible.
All this shit is right out of the CIA's playbook for controlling citizenry. I hope everyone is taking notes.
+1
U.S. citizenry won't be controlled like this.
Just try imagining the scene in Cairo if 97 of every 100 people in the street had a gun.
"“There is no chance Mubarak can last until September, there is too much water under the bridge,” said Rime Allaf, associate fellow of the Middle East and North Africa Programme at London’s Chatham House."
Don't be a dupe ZH, give it up already.
From the CIA FACT BOOK 2010. Egypt's 82 million population is growing at about 2.5% per year, up 14 million (21%) in the last 10 years.
Epypt must import 40% of its food and 60% (7 million tons) of its wheat annually. The price of wheat has doubled in the past year. Russia, Epypt's largest supplier, has cancelled all exports of wheat due to production problems.
In a few months, Epypt's population will be rioting for bread, not democracy. Twittering don't feed millions of staving people.
The social unrest is about the doubling cost of corn, wheat and now rice and how it impacts countries with large poor populations.
The crap about democracy and dicatorships is not the main issue.
Who will supply the 7 million tons of wheat to Egypt and how will they pay for it.
Do I hear America aid??
Everone has noticed that Uncle Sam's using Frank Wisner as a go between, right?
He's got quite a pedigree.
Lots of injuries; head injuries by flying rocks and debris from above. Women in the rear of the square treating the wounded and digging up rocks.
Mubarak's goons are going to go for the square. They're moving in, collecting anything that they can throw and moving in.
Repeat: the revolutionary forces are trapped by the military vehicles and Mubarak's people. They cannot escape.
Mubarak's guys just hot-wired (?) an Armored Personnel Carrier and are trying to storm the Square.
The masses of Cairo need to encircle these people.
Vehicles in the Square. Gunshots being fired.
When asked why they're not intervening, a soldier was just quoted:
"We have no orders."
FILL UP YOUR GAS TANKS, BITCHEZ!
You can be sure our govt. has messed up again (remember the Shah?) stirring up a pot of shite and then wondering why things went wrong.
Mu/Barak might want to consider canceling Friday prayers.
Ban Ki Moon speaketh.
Nations fall like dominoes, what recovery, WHAT RECOVERY?!
So Mubarak should stand down at the behest of a braying mob?
In many ways he's been a terrible leader but once the mob, instead of the constitution, dictates leadership changes, a country is well down the path to chaos and another totalitarian regime that is far worse.
He's agreed not to stand in the next election. Term limits will soon be written into the constitution. There will be free elections. I think a reasonable compromise has been reached. However, if he doesn't stand down in September, then let slip the dogs of war.
I'm a bit suspicious everyone starts pushing the same line. In this case the western media, gov'ts and citizenry all want Mubarak out ... hmmmm.
This reminds me of Sabra and Shatilla - Apartheid Israel provides the cordon sanitaire and the goons come in. Only the names change.
The veneer of 'law' behind which you're hiding has no legitimacy in light of what's taking place.
Today will clarify things, and when Egyptians hear the silliness in light of the miliary attack against children and grandmothers they'll not lie down like cowards. After all, food prices are still killing them.
Meanwhile, (Mu)Barak's goons are encircling the Square. More than 500 wounded, and the march to the Square continues. They used the pretext of "dialogue" earlier today to get in. Meanwhile, the Army keeps others out.
It's a much more complicated situation than the media portrays. Many Egyptians support Mubarak especially those in the lower classes and outside of Cairo [see below].
I'm no friend to Mubarak. His regime is corrupt, he's not instituted the most of the reforms he's promised and there is increasing economic inequalities. However, the downsides from a disorderly handover of power are not to be minimized. Mubarak has provided a reasonable timeline for an orderly handover of power. Keep in mind Mubarak is a proud man who has ruled for 30 years. The protesters have not given him an opportunity to handover power AND save face.
From the BBC .. "I R in Cairo writes: "I just came back from Tahrir Square, supporting Mubarak to continue his term. I am not an NDP member, never voted and never participated in a demonstration before last week. Ninety per cent of our demands have been met. Enough demonstrations. We need a smooth transition of power."
You approach this struggle from the perspective of Mubarak's legitimacy, and I look at it from the perspective of those who were out a week ago protesting the food prices.
The Movement is being attacked in a coordinated, government-led attack by prisoners led by released prisoners.
"The situation must change... now." Weren't those Barak's words last night?
Mission Accomplished.
Also ... if you're American why don't you sort out the authoritarian regime in your own country before you try and 'save the world' for democracy.
Sadly, I can offer nothing to the Movement in Egypt other than my solidarity and my voice.
The fall of Mubarak's dictatorship to a secular uprising opposed to Apartheid Israel is hardly beneficial to Uncle Sam's genocidal ambitions.
What makes you think you can't address both, simultaneously?
That said, my tax dollars are paying for rapists to stone children.
Hooray!
Why do you and others, like Obama, Cameron, etc. have a problem with many, if not a majority of Egyptian supporting Mubarak?
The West loves to champion democracy until it produces a result that they don't like.
Strange thing, this 'democracy'!
Egyptian unemployment reported down sharply as demand for provocateurs increases
So it's just been QE-Egyptian style all along, right?
Rice limit up again?
Shades of the Warsaw Ghetto uprising - never underestimate the power of youth when they become enabled of a decent cause. As soon as Mubarak leaves, the nation will begin the process of healing. After Gulf War I, Iraqis quickly rebuilt their country to the extent that they could, taking into account the scarcity of resources available. The line demarcing back to normal has been crossed.
"...the nation will begin the process of healing..."
Don't be so naive. There is a good chance that what happens in Egypt is the same that happened in Iran. We stirred up a big pot of shit and were surprised when things didn't exactly happen the way we expected.
"...the nation will begin the process of healing...."
The "healing process" ends when people forget their history, lube up and get ready for Version 2.0 of arse ramming.
After Gulf War I, the UN imposed genocidal sanctions on Iraq that killed more than a million people in a decade.
What the Egyptians do with their nation is their business, I mean we've [USA] have done so well with Iraq [essentially a colony of Iran and the mullahs] and Afghanistan at the behest of old coldwar, draft-dodging fossils [with a military machine at their disposal] who imagined themselves as captains of change.
Last night I asked,
It appears I have recieved my answer, as it is being reported that the US/EU/UN are contemplating a surge.
UPDATE: Headline removed...
...MSM Beta test? Or is Bam Bam considering war?
Oil shock now entering the realm of possibility.
All this clash is missing are the United Nations Party favor leaflets dropping from the sky.
Israel must be happy with revolts in its two non enemies (won't say friends). Tremendous battle in Tharir square, by the way. The army still not intervening (which I think it helps more the pro Mubarak mob)
Anyday now... Coming to the US. It's coming, folks.
Are you prepared? Are you in shape?
Do you own Gold and Silver?
Violence is inevitable. It will happen. Blood will flow, bones will break and people will die.
People want it. People on ZH thirst for it everyday!
THE MILITARY grew up playing 1st person shooter video games... It's fun when it's real for them.
I am scared! I don't want to die young!
Take a deep breathe. Here is what could happen, and here is how it would fall apart....
World War:
Scenario #1a) The US military moves into the Middle East and wages war with the EU/Israel. This is bat shit crazy, and nukes have to be going off. If we get there, well....
Scenario #1b) The US loses goes it alone, with Israel, and just as Germany lost WWII, they lose because they do not have the oil to power their troops.
Civil War:
Scenario #2) The economy collapses and US Forces are brought home when Obama issues martial law. Half of the Forces side with the people of the United States of America, who disagree with the US Government's martial law tactics. The fascist US Government is defeated.
Conclusion: It is true, the oilgarchs collapsed the financial sytem in the Fall of '08 to pillage the pieces one last time. They used some bs theory to "reflate" the economy while the made off with "Green Chutes". Until now a police state has been warped into the minds of the people due to tv programming of bread and circuses. But do not fret. It is all an illusion. We will figure it out. How we do, well, that is our, but more importantly, THE, choice.
You're cute. If you were here, I would kiss you on the lips.
My friends are jelious of Tim Geither and Bernanke! A few people got to meet them!
"The economy collapses and US Forces are brought home when Obama issues martial law."
Like I've pointed out in other threads, I question the logistics involved in bringing all of those troops home. It certainly couldn't be accomplished with any great rapidity. If expedited (which it would have to be), such a monumental troop withdrawl would likely require several months of planning and implementation.
Both of your scenarios are likely, with variations of the themes being applied.
Don't worry I bought Modern Warfare 2 and Black Ops!
Put me in, coach!
Pro Mubarak counter revolutionaries? Fuck that, it's the police who disappeared off the streets days ago. What a farce. The military should step in and arrest this fucking douchebag.
Egypt needs a general strike, or a pro-democracy move by the military, or it's going to sink.
The debate in the officer corps must be astounding right now. The right colonel could take it all.
+1
Send in Colonel Custer! He will know what to do.
+1 and my thought as well.
Guess its time to go up the Nile to find Col. Kurtz.
MOObarrack - you dumbshit, this isn't 1981, you can't pull this shit with the whole world watching - Obama, this is your chance to jack him up! Will you do something right for a change?
Probably so: apparently, smoke bombs have been launched from the pro Mubarak mob. Either they're policemen in civilian's clothes or police has given them.
All those tanks with reactive armor and 122mm main guns, almost invulnerable -- except for that unexpected Molotov Cocktail at close quarters.
Just turned on the MSM for a minute...the anchors are agog at the horses and camels (CAMELS ooooohhhh)...the riders whipping the crowd and getting the crap beaten out of them in return are instantly iconic. Very poor move on the military's part to allow this; stuff we only know as Westerners from 'Doctor Zhivago' or 'Battleship Potempkin'...er, sorry, overeducated comment there...I mean, they look like the bad guys in an Indiana Jones movie.
Now regular people worldwide KNOW who the bad guys are. No thought required. Anyone allied with Mubarak from this day onward is allied with eeeeeevil.
It's Potemkin, so, rest easy, there's no danger that you're overeducated.
What happens right now is so sad. Same thing happened in Romania 20 years ago, at the end of the comunist revolution.? The president called the miners to beat up the people that were demanding true change. Google: February 1990 mineriad
Stupid to overreach and demand Mubarak's ouster now when he will leave in Sept. and the re is the possibility of a coalition Government where the Muslim Brotherhood and all the rest can be involved politically instead of chaos. Having a 9 month transition period is the best case scenario for Egyptians. Instant removal and a power vacuum is going to be disaster.
Nonsense. People are capable of organizing themselves.
The first thing a people's government could do is refuse to pay it's debt to banker-gangsters. That one step would make it more effective than any "orderly" transition.
Uncle Sam and Apartheid Israel will reap the whirlwind from this, regardless of what they did to precipitate it.
Next stop: Jordan. Good luck with that, ZBig.
Nonsense. Chaos doesn't allow "people" the time and the information to organize and create anything. Only the groups who are already organized and determined, with a unifying goal prevail. Witness the Mafiya in Russia, the only group with determination and unity in Russia after the "revolution", they basically run things now, and it hasn't been for the best for democracy or the average person.
Chaos and experience are not the same thing.
As someone mentioned earlier, either a general strike or a move by a military official with a serious political program - like Nasser or Chavez - could take charge of the situation without much bloodshed at all, it seems to me.
Both are obvious, logical scenarios with both historical precedent and material justification (food prices, unemployment, etc.).
Bottom line: there is no scenario - NONE - that improves the geostrategic position of the Uncle Sam or for Apartheid Israel. ANY transition is bad for them (because Hosni is Plus-Good), so White Imperialism needs an "orderly" one to stage-manage.
But that means they need leaders. And they've not had much luck with that so far.
I wonder why?
An obvious, logical scenario where a Nasser or Chavez takes charge is actually something you would advocate? That is exactly who is in charge now! My suggestion to go ahead and wait for the next election cycle is the one that would benefit some form of representation in government by all the parties concerned and their constituents in Egypt.
Will something happen already? It's been nine days and I'm tired of the rock hurling antics.
Maybe they are just filming a scene for James Cameron's latest film?
It won't be completely historically accurate until they bust out the scimitars..
I think the cave trolls got on the wrong police shuttle bus...should be there soon...
Mubarak's thugs fire-bombed the museum. Bastards.
And all this happening after Mubarak spoke with Barack.
No worries, an aircraft carrier is on its way. (Just sailed from Portugal.)
Probably to evacuate the embassy, once sh. hits the fan.
source?
http://www.navy.mil/search/display.asp?story_id=58273
Thanks for posting this. It is significant.
The chess pieces are being repositioned. A broader conflict appears inevitable.
It always hurts to lose a knight or a rook.
Whose navy? The French?
"Enterprise Strike Group consists of Enterprise, the guided-missile cruiser USS Leyte Gulf (CG 55), the guided-missile destroyers USS Bulkeley (DDG 84), USS Barry (DDG 52) and USS Mason (DDG 87); USNS Arctic (T-AOE 8), Carrier Air Wing 1 and Destroyer Squadron 2."
Doubt they will interfere beyond being in position at one chopper flight from the embassy. We can not afford the repetition of Iranian crisis. So it is the worst case scenario preparation.
Probably going there under a humanitarian guise. The real reason may be to facilitate the emergency evacuation of the Mubarak regime.
Deja vu WRT the Shah of Iran?
They will be there to pick up Mubarak
thanks Comrade, but I don't think one carrier group is our worst-case response. How many do we have in the Indian Ocean? Got to be at least one.
Obama should give back that Nobel Peace prize
And Krugman his.
If only these cronies would...