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Climate: We Can ALL Agree On Two Things
Whatever you think about the leaked emails showing that "tricks" were used to "hide the decline" in the climate data, and the fact that the original source data showing historical climate information was destroyed, you should agree on two things.
The Carbon Footprint of War
First, as Harvey Wasserman notes,
continuing the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq will more than wipe out any
reduction in carbon from the government's proposed climate measures.
Writing about the escalation in the Afghanistan war, Wasserman says:
The
war would also come with a carbon burst. How will the massive emissions
created by 100,000-plus soldiers in wartime be counted in the 17%
reduction rubric? Will the HumVees be converted to hybrids? What is the
carbon impact of Predator bombs that destroy Afghan families and
villages?
The continuance of the Afghanistan and
Iraq wars completely and thoroughly undermines the government's claims
that there is a global warming emergency and that reducing carbon
output through cap and trade is needed to save the planet.
I
can't take anything the government says about carbon footprints
seriously until the government ends the unnecessary wars in Afghanistan
and Iraq. For evidence that the Iraq war is unnecessary, see this. Read this for evidence that the U.S. could have taken Bin Laden out years ago and avoided a decades long war in Afghanistan. And for proof that the entire war on Muslim extremists is unnecessary for our national security, see this.
War is also very harmful to the economy. See this, this and this.
Carbon Trading
Second, the proposed solution to global warming - cap and trade - is a scam. Specifically:
- The economists who invented cap-and-trade say that it won't work for global warming
- Many environmentalists say that carbon trading won't effectively reduce carbon emissions
- Our bailout buddies over at Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, Morgan Stanley,
Citigroup and the other Wall Street behemoths are buying heavily into
carbon trading. As University of Maryland professor economics professor
and former Chief Economist at the U.S. International Trade Commission
Peter Morici writes:
Obama
must ensure that the banks use the trillions of dollars in federal
bailout assistance to renegotiate mortgages and make new loans to
worthy homebuyers and businesses. Obama must make certain that banks do not continue to squander federal largess by padding executive bonuses, acquiring other banks and pursuing new high-return, high-risk lines of businesses in merger activity, carbon trading
and complex derivatives. Industry leaders like Citigroup have announced
plans to move in those directions. Many of these bankers enjoyed
influence in and contributed generously to the Obama campaign. Now it
remains to be seen if a President Obama can stand up to these same
bankers and persuade or compel them to act responsibly.In
other words, the same companies that made billions off of derivatives
and other scams and are now getting bailed out on your dime are going
to make billions from carbon trading.
Consensus
Everyone should read the leaked emails and rationally think through what they mean. But whatever one believes about climategate
(the leaked emails showing that "tricks" were used to "hide the
decline" in the climate data and the destruction of the original source
data), we should all be able to agree that:
(1) We should end the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq; and
(2) We should not let the financial giants who caused the financial crisis to profit off of cap and trade schemes.
- advertisements -
The US Navy is probably also the largest user of Nuclear Energy. Portable nukes!
Afghanistan is not a nation, and never has been. It is a collection of tribal interests occupying the most brutal terrain on earth, and it will never be tamed in whole. From Alexander to now, one by one, the world's greatest empires have suffered in Afghanistan. Afghanistan is truly a graveyard of giants.
It should be subdivided into manageable pieces and each bordering country should be responsible for their piece. The US can then concentrate on the real problem...stabilizing Pakistan.
If Obama really wants his Nobel justified, this is the sort of thing he should be brokering.
if we hadn't gone and de-stabilized pakistan in the first place, things would be a lot simpler. but that is not on the full spectrum global domination adgenda. de stabilization, and conflict generation, are the adgenda, and its all going along splendidly. how many nato nations have we dragged into participating in this repulsive lie, called the war on terrorism. we have now become what we claim to be fighting.
Yeah, that's a great idea! Subdivide it into manageable pieces just like the Great Powers did with the Middle East after WWI. How'd that work out for 'ya!? And we can give the newly-created states nice snazzy names like...oh, I don't know...how about "UN or NATO Mandate Zones"? And we can have individual nations "administer" them, shepherding them to full sovereign status! Yeah, that can only lead to good things!
Go ahead and take a mulligan GW.
Pure crap, sorry.
Putting to sleep every non-working horse, dog and cat in the United States would eliminate more carbon emissions than stopping the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Search "pets carbon footprint" for a slew of reports, here is one:
http://blog.brighterplanet.com/2009/11/17/add-your-pets-to-your-carbon-f...
10,000 indictments and trials before ANY climate policy goes forth. That is the ONLY rational option given to the scam artists. RICO, treason, national security treason charges related to the campaigns against the DoD and MoD, military tribunals regarding watermelons lawsuits against the DoD, extortion, bribery, fraud, esconcing with publc funds, violation of 501 laws, etc.
Why is it that so many smart people turn a blind eye to the permanent and irrevocable debt enslavement projected onto the American people which our founders vehemently warned us against in the precise manner in which they have been wraught upon us. Our founders warned against the welfare entitlement state, the powers of the central government and the hellish costs associated with foreign interventionism. Only now are we witnessing the true costs of our lack of Jefferson's vigilance. We have spent $944 billion [http://www.fas.org/sgp/crs/natsec/RL33110.pdf] in direct costs on the Iraq and Afghanistan wars. Indirect costs such as interest on the additional debt and incremental costs of caring for more than 33,000 wounded borne by the Veterans Administration are additional. Some experts estimate these indirect costs will eventually exceed the direct costs.
See http://www.csbaonline.org/4Publications/PubLibrary/R.20081215.Cost_of_the_Wars_i/R.20081215.Cost_of_the_Wars_i.pdf
This is before the effects of the $515 billion defense budget to fund over 130 bases around the world. Spending $2.5 trillion for your protection is one thing when you have the money but we don't have any money. How much security would $2.5 trillion purchase here in America to secure our borders and strengthen our national security? Jefferson and Washington were both right. We should have stayed the hell out of the world's affairs.
Good article. Don't forget the imminent war in Iran.
How does giving corporations a title of Nobility save the earth from overheating? Are they going to put a thermostat on the Sun? The American people need to learn what the Constitution says and begin to insist the National and State governments follow it. Of course, we are dealing with the corporate (fascist) state and not the Constitutional government, but even the Constitutional government cannot endow the corporate state to issue titles of nobility in the form of bank charters, corporate charters, licenses to do what is lawful (a title of nobility is a priveledge, what do they say about driving?) and endow Wall Street and General Electric with the right and ownership of energy consumption. The average Joe in the US in no shape or form should be required or even allowed to pay these guys for this right. Even the world burns all to Hell, the destruction of the Constitution and its protection of the normal American should not be allowed.
To begin with there has never been a just war in the opinion of the left. And if they had lived in 1776 they would have belonged to the majority that were against that war. Now they are glad to enjoy the benefits of the freedoms in this country paid for by the blood of those willing to fight for it. As to Vietnam, in the words of their commanding General Giap they were beaten, then they noticed that the liberal press in America was fighting a propaganda war to aid them. This PBS documantary has been shown many times. So that is another myth like Global Warming that has been put forth by the willing liars for the left called the MSM. As to radical Islamists, just total up the damages of 911 and the havoc it wreaked on our economy. Then think about whether or not you would like to live in an environment where you had to worry about a suicide bomber killing or maiming yourself or your family every time you went out to shop, to a movie, to a restaurant or to a wedding. That is what they have threatened to do to us. By fighting them in Iraq and Afghanistan we are preventing that kind of damage. Remember that is what they said that they would do to us, and they have always kept their promises in the past.
I have some Tiger repellent* I'd like to sell you.
*will work only where there are no Tigers
In 1776 the British forces were occupying territory for the financial benefit of leaders halfway around the world.
So if it was right to kick them out, by your own logic those in the Middle Eastern countries the US is currently occupying in an attempt to make the world safe for Wall Street to trade oil futures have every right to kick the US right the hell out too.
To all of our friends who are arguing that these wars are necessary to fight Muslim terrorists.
You are totally right!!!
Oh, wait ...
A leading advisor to the U.S. military, the Rand Corporation, released a study in 2008 called "How Terrorist Groups End: Lessons for Countering al Qa'ida".
The report confirms what experts have been saying for years: the war on terror is actually weakening national security (see this, this and this).
As a press release about the study states:
And key war on terror architect Douglas Feith has now confirmed Donald Rumsfeld, Paul Wolfowitz and Wesley Clark in admitting that the so-called War on Terror is a hoax.
In fact, starting right after 9/11 -- at the latest -- the goal has always been to create "regime change" and instability in Iraq, Iran, Syria, Libya, Sudan, Somalia and Lebanon so as to protect Israel. And the goal was never really to destroy Al Qaeda.
As reported in a new article in Asia Times:
Where does Israel come in?
Well, the Asia Times article continues:
As even Newsweek has now admitted, the war on terror is wholly unnecessary.
If all the shit in the Middle East isn't to protect Israel than I'll eat my shorts.For fucks sake lets just give them Florida most of them are there anyways and it's cheap to purchase all the foreclosed homes sitting empty.
Yeah, I've always advocated much the same. Although I've always preferred giving them Utah, or Kansas, or some other small unpopulated state. Buy out all the residents through eminent domain (who cares if its legal) and move the Jews to their new 'homeland'.
p.s. dont forget that Saddam in 2000 was calling for their oil be priced in euros. Oil is the blood of the modern economy. Our empire depends on oil priced in dollars that we are allowed to print to pay for debt. What's the sovreignty of a country when you've got an empire to keep up.
You're an idiot. It's clearly about oil. The US only cares about Israel so they can land their planes there and protect Exxon's interest in the Middle East.
Do you really think the WASPs in Langley give two shits about a country that has no natural resources and is about the size of Delaware?
WASPS in langley, get real, don't you mean the zionists
The Grand Global Priesthood of Global Earth Worship from the Church of Environmental Terrorism continues to shamelessly advance their Malthusian Satanic agenda to rid the world of it's worst enemy. Mankind. See it for what it is. Condemn its very existence because it exists to end yours!
Green Movement Continues To Push For One Child Policy - Carbon Credits to Couples That Limit Themselves to One Child http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/October22/2283.html Thatcher adviser: Copenhagen goal is 1-world government http://www.prophecynewswatch.com/October22/2291.html "There is a grave danger facing mankind. The danger is not from acid rain, global warming, smog, or the logging of rain forests, as environmentalists would have us believe. The danger to mankind is from environmentalism." Michael S. Berliner, Ph.D. In the environmentalists’ paean to “Nature,” man’s nature is omitted. For the environmentalists, the “natural” world is a world without man. Man has no legitimate needs, but trees, ponds, and bacteria somehow do. The truth about the radically destructive religion of Environmentalism The bottom line: The most consistent, dedicated environmentalists want you, and everyone else you love, to die. It's as simple as that. Any other supposed goals are a means to that ultimate end; the destruction of industrial civilization around the world means the death of the vast majority of current humanity. They know this - you should too. Every single smaller goal of environmentalism is consistent with that ultimate goal; do not be deluded into thinking that environmentalism is about improving your life or any human life. Environmentalism is not about a vacuous desire to have cleaner water and air. It is now a full-fledged religion, and its main tenet is "raw nature" as god-like, and Mankind as a plague infecting it. If you support environmentalism, the fact is that you're supporting an ideology that promotes the destruction of Mankind - and concretely, that includes yourself and everyone you care about. Ideas matter. Support of ideas, matters. Supporting the religion of environmentalism, is supporting, ultimately, a terrorism that dwarfs the actions of 9/11/01. Environmentalism, indeed, promotes fear and terror about all of the actions of humanity - and the most extreme (which means, the most consistent) environmentalists have no problem with committing crimes ranging from vandalism, to personal attacks, to murder (the Unabomber was an explicit environmentalist.) But the main damage that environmentalists have inflicted, and continue to inflict on a growing scale, is the ongoing attack on modern industrial civilization. It is modern civilization - modern technology - that permits you and your loved ones, and the vast majority of the rest of humanity, to live. An attack on industrial civilization, on technology, is a mass attack on humanity. The environmentalists are well aware of this fact. You should be, as well. Rolling blackouts and insanely high land costs in many parts of the United States caused by environmentalist regulations, are only the start. To the environmentalist religion, as long as a single human being lives, the Earth has a problem. "We have been waging this war for far too long with weapons of reason, logic and sanity. Whereas our enemies have long known that our battlefield is being fought in the consciences of a being that is no longer ruled by reason but rather by a wanton reckless attachment to his emotion not his reason. Our very survival requires us to dawn a new armor. We must begin to wage the war where it is actually being fought and we must begin to loudly and publicly identify our enemy for who they really are. The enemies of mankind itself." "Human beings, as a species, have no more value than slugs." —John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal "Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on earth, social and environmental." —Dave Forman, Founder of Earth First! "I know scientists who remind me that people are part of nature, but it isn't true. Somewhere along the line ... we quit the contract and became a cancer. We have become a plague upon ourselves and upon the Earth.... Until such time as Homo sapiens should decide to rejoin nature, some of us can only hope for the right virus to come along." (source: "Mother Nature as a hothouse flower," Los Angeles Times Book Review, October 22, 1989, p. 10.)—David Graber, biologist, National Park Service "The right to have children should be a marketable commodity, bought and traded by individuals but absolutely limited by the state."—Kenneth Boulding, originator of the “Spaceship Earth” concept (as quoted by William Tucker in Progress and Privilege, 1982) "We have wished, we ecofreaks, for a disaster or for a social change to come and bomb us into Stone Age, where we might live like Indians in our valley, with our localism, our appropriate technology, our gardens, our homemade religion—guilt-free at last! —Stewart Brand (writing in the Whole Earth Catalogue). "If you ask me, it’d be a little short of disastrous for us to discover a source of clean, cheap, abundant energy because of what we would do with it. We ought to be looking for energy sources that are adequate for our needs, but that won’t give us the excesses of concentrated energy with which we could do mischief to the earth or to each other." —Amory Lovins in The Mother Earth–Plowboy Interview, Nov/Dec 1977, p.22 "I suspect that eradicating smallpox was wrong. It played an important part in balancing ecosystems." —John Davis, editor of Earth First! Journal "The extinction of the human species may not only be inevitable but a good thing....This is not to say that the rise of human civilization is insignificant, but there is no way of showing that it will be much help to the world in the long run." —Economist editorial "We advocate biodiversity for biodiversity’s sake. It may take our extinction to set things straight." —David Foreman, Earth First! "Phasing out the human race will solve every problem on earth, social and environmental."—Dave Forman, Founder of Earth First! "If radical environmentalists were to invent a disease to bring human populations back to sanity, it would probably be something like AIDS."—Earth First! Newsletter "The collective needs of non-human species must take precedence over the needs and desires of humans." —Dr. Reed F. Noss, The Wildlands Project "If I were reincarnated, I would wish to be returned to Earth as a killer virus to lower human population levels." —Prince Phillip, World Wildlife Fund "Cannibalism is a “radical but realistic solution to the problem of overpopulation.”—Lyall Watson, The Financial Times, 15 July 1995 "To feed a starving child is to exacerbate the world population problem." —Lamont Cole "The battle to feed humanity is over. In the 1970s, the world will undergo famines. Hundreds of millions of people are going to starve to death in spite of any crash programs embarked upon now. Population control is the only answer."—Paul Ehrlich, in The Population Bomb (1968) "Given the total, absolute, and final disappearance of Homo Sapiens, not only would the Earth’s community of life continue to exist, but in all probability, its well-being would be enhanced. Our presence, in short, is not needed. And if we were to take the standpoint of that Life Community and give voice to its true interests, the ending of the human epoch on Earth would most likely be greeted with a hearty “Good riddance!” (Respect for Nature: A Theory of Environmental Ethics, p. 115) --Paul Taylor, Patriarch Priest of Environmental Regligion In a glowing review of Bill McKibben’s The End of Nature, biologist David Graber writes: Such is the naked essence of environmentalism: it mourns the death of one whale or tree but actually welcomes the death of billions of people. A more malevolent, man-hating philosophy is unimaginable. The guiding principle of environmentalism is self-sacrifice: the sacrifice of longer lives, healthier lives, more prosperous lives, more enjoyable lives, i.e., the sacrifice of human lives. But an individual is not born in servitude. He has a moral right to live his own life for his own sake. He has no duty to sacrifice it to the needs of others and certainly not to the “needs” of the non-human. To save mankind from environmentalism, what’s needed is not the appeasing, compromising approach of today’s conservatives, who urge a “balance” between the needs of man and the “needs“ of the environment. To save mankind requires the wholesale rejection of environmentalism as hatred of science, technology, progress, and human life. Environmentalism requires a seething audacity and arrogant hatred for God's creation of man. It's roots are embedded in an ancient doctrine of earth worship and to deny the deity of God. Genesis 1:26-30 The Creation of Man and his habitation on Earth [26] And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
[27] So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
[28] And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
[29] And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
[30] And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so. Such is the nature of this religion of Environmentalism. True consistent environmentalism requires an extreme manmade arrogance and the abject denial of the authority and sovereignty of our Creator. But the day approacheth when every knee shall bow and every tongue confess. Isaiah 24:1-3 The Lord's Devastation of the Earth [1] See, the Lord is going to lay waste the earth and devastate it; he will ruin its face and scatter its inhabitants. [2] It will be the same for priest as for people, for master as for servant, for mistress as for maid, for seller as for buyer, for borrower as for lender, for debtor as for creditor. [3] The earth will be completely laid waste and totally plundered. The Lord has spoken this word.
Hello Wise Prophet-
Many do not understand the subtleties: For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.
You make a very interesting point that dovetails perfectly with satanism. If you study their beliefs, they have no original thought and it appears that they only promote the opposite of whatever is stated in the christian bible. Because man is cherished by God, they want to destroy it. The dominion of man over nature is attempting to be overturned or flipped. The most important tenent is love, so they have contempt and hate - it is just rebellion in another form against creation from the destroyer. However, the majority of the population would not accept this religion, so it masquerades in sheeps clothing.
Have you ever wondered why secret societies choose to be secret? The history of masonry is very much along the lines of the three part structure of the druid priesthood. The teachings are practically the same as the mysteries concealed as the allegories of blue lodge masonry. One of the long-standing goals of the Masonic New World Order seems finally within grasp. The Masonic orders are the hidden hand guiding mankind into the church of lucifer, those at the lower levels are not yet prepared to be "illumined". Hitler himself underwent a luciferic initiation in an attempt to gain occultic powers.
The word holocaust, comes from a third century Greek word 'Holokaustos,' referring to 'the burnt sacrificial offering of the Jews dedicated exclusively to God. The holocaust was Hitler's fiery offering of human sacrifice to satan, just as in the days of the heathen Amorite god, Moloch. Exoterically, the nation of Germany was led to believe that they were purifying the human race; esoterically understood, however, they were beginning the process of annihilating mankind.
From the Mayas to the Nazis, the shedding of blood to attract the attention of indifferent powers was the magic significance of human sacrifice. He would have sacrificed the happiness of the whole human race if ordered to do so by the mysterious force whose commands he obeyed. This mentality caused Hitler to say, 'Our losses never seem to be high enough.' He believed that satan/lucifers thirst for sacrificial death was unquenchable, and that he would grow in power and be more successful the larger the sacrifice.
Statements of the new age movement, masonic writers, new world order movement / UN, and global climate environmental religion movement look shockingly similar to me as different fronts for the same movement. Assorted New Agers have estimated that two to five billion people will be eradicated to purify the human race. Alice Bailey, president of the Theosophical society stated "Man understands meaning when he identifies with his soul and not his form: then he will deliberately choose to die." The mass suicides of the Jim Jones cult was an example of a sacrifice and twisted thinking, man can easily be deceived.
The malthusian new world order goal of population reduction could be achieved through engineered H1N1 plagues, denying humanity access to necessary resources including energy food and water, and planned economic collapse. Perhaps these individuals do not have our best interests at heart and we should not cede US sovereignty (our protection) to these anti-human psycho-paths. We are battling the spirit of Hitler, whether you believe it to be an occultic influence or a suicidal tendency expressing itself outwardly.
the hatred of humanity almost sounds like it has non-human origins.
Dear Main Stream Media,
We know you are doing your best to cover this up. It is understandable, but very immoral. Instead of focusing on one of the biggest scientific scandals ever, and identifying the real scoundrels involved, you have given in to both corporate and governmental pressure. A lot of big companies pay you a great deal of money to advertise their products and they really want to continue the lies about the existence of global warming that they have helped perpetuate. Governments have their own shady agendas.
What you must understand is that WE THE PEOPLE are not letting this go! We will get the word out and we will make sure the truth is told, even if you stopped doing that long ago.
Sincerely,
Truth Seeking Citizens of the World
http://www.conservativeforchange.com/2009/11/climategate-storynot-going-away.html
A betrayal of science - and of youThe now non-secret data prove what many of us had only strongly suspected — that most of the evidence of global warming was simply made up. That is, not only are the global warming computer models unreliable, the experimental data upon which these models are built are also unreliable. As Lord Monckton has emphasized here at Pajamas Media, this deliberate destruction of data and the making up of data out of whole cloth is the real crime — the real story of Climategate.
It is an act of treason against science. It is also an act of treason against humanity, since it has been used to justify an attempt to destroy the world economy.
http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/a_betrayal_of_science_and_of_you/
Geologist 'appalled' at NYT's KrugmanGeologist Dr. Don Easterbrook - November 29, 2009
"I've spent four decades studying global climate change and as a scientist I am appalled at [NYT's Paul] Krugman's cavalier shrugging off the Hadley email scandal as 'just the way scientists talk among themselves.' That's like saying it's alright for politicians to be corrupt because that's the way they are."
http://www.climatedepot.com/a/4140/Geologist-appalled-at-NYTs-Krugman-Legitimate-scientists-do-not-doctor-datahijack-peerreviewsend-fraudulent-data-to-UN-that-is-used-to-perpetuate-greatest-hoax-in-the-history-of-science
Mayhem... keep the pressure up... as said by a fellow ZHer... "this turd will not flush!"
BTW did you catch this video?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Hftsk4gWqI&feature=related
In europe we already lost tje war against tje muslims. Only tje swiss are brave enough to react. Once hou take the riad back there is nov return. IS hope america wolk once be able to beat tje muslim threath. Never turn your back to the sacrifice of thousands because it somehow affects abu lieve of your luxury!
is there any question left that government generated economic data is manipulated as well??????? still waiting for the revolution to start. come on y'all!
Global Warming Rhetoric is the Foil to push through policies to deal with Peak Oil, that's reality.
Global Warming is how you "financialize" a reduction in petroleum energy supply daily flow rates.
It's alchemy, it's that simple. HOW ELSE can you turn a reduction in real economic activity do to energy supply constraints into "economic growth"?
Answer is, YOU CAN'T!
Just look at the manipulations in the CPI they have recently added to support this fraud.
Moved consumables from CPI to GDP!
In other words, now when you purchase food that has increased in price (other than from a restaurant, which is now INCLUDED in CPI) or when you purchase gasoline that has gone up in price, IT IS REPORTED AS ECONOMIC GROWTH vs. and INCREASE IN THE COST OF LIVING!!!!!!!!!!!!
That is INSANE (and it has already happend). Check the current GDP and CPI methodology if you don't believe me.
A reduction in economic activity due to increase food and energy input costs IS NOW GROWTH.
War is Peace!
Ignorance is Strength!
Declining Purchasing power is GROWTH!
GW- I emphatically agree. In addition, the US Military is the single largest user of oil in the world. If this global warming threat was real (it's not - but it is one of three problem themes that can "only be solved by world government"), that would be the first place to start.
Don't impose your cultural values on us GW.
Smart-bombs don't waste any time worrying about cultural values - they just wipe people of the face of the Earth. No need to ask them their opinion.
Yes, Bugs, a stable financial system is certainly a "cultural value".
Yes, I can agree with those two things. Both terrific points.
Hey Mad Max, I saw in your presidential campaign, your claim that if Obama was elected, everyone's "guns and ammo would be confiscated."
What happened? I see MORE ammo sold than ever before. So what happened to your phone "confiscation" claim????
Thats too bad you are an Intelligence Agency plant, Pierre, we could have used someone like you over on this side.
Btw everyone "knew" Saddam didn't have WMD's? Are these the same clowns who "knew" that Global Warming was REAL? Are these the same bastards who "KNEW" that lending money to folks who couldn't pay it back was a good idea? Same folks who "knew" that we absolutely, positively had to spend trillions of dollars bailing out those godless schmucks on Wall Street...those folks knew???!!!?
Yea they have a lot of credibility...assholes can't find their asses with either hand even if we spot them a cheek.
For a list of why Saddam needed to go check this out.
http://preview.alturl.com/8o7k
So now you're picking a fight with the verb "to know"? You've got to check your premises: your use of the word is incorrect (or at least disingenuously liberal) for most of these.
If Saddam needed to go his own people would've taken him out. Hell, they may have done it on their own by now if we hadn't gotten all up in their business. Saddam was a problem for the people of Iraq to deal with, in my opinion. None of our business. Yes, I know we've been meddling in the Middle East for a century but we could always just, I don't know...STOP?
WTF! Thank goodness the French didn't think that way back when we got rid of the British.
Do you really think that if we just stopped all of our meddling in the Middle East, including foreign aid to all countries, that we'd get pounded by these people? Iraq and Afghanistan were sovereign nations and we just walked in like a bunch of Caesars.
They don't hate us and attack us because we're rich and free and (mostly) Christian. They want us to burn because we're responsible for (likely) over 100,000 civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, probably more when you consider the decade-long embargo against Iraq after Desert Storm, and we've defiled their holy places. I live in NYC and if some Saudi Arabian F-15E dropped a 1,000 bomb on St. Patrick's cathedral during midnight mass on Christmas Eve, I'd be screaming for blood. So what's wrong with a similar response from some civilian from Kandahar whose entire family was wiped out by a Predator drone firing a Hellfire missile into a wedding party?
We'd win without shedding a drop of blood or expending a cent of our wealth by just getting the hell out and staying out. If another sovereign nation attacks us then we wipe them off the map. But if a non state-affiliated bunch of thugs decide to make trouble, what then? How do you succeed against such an enemy? What drives them to commit these monstrous acts? Simple answer: We Do.
Someone should discuss using depleted uranium munitions - it can expose US troops as well as occupied country's civilians to major birth defects and health issues. If you want genocide, then use uranium munitions.
Stop talking sense JOHNICON...
Say did anybody notice as soon as Climategate breaks... Obama changes his mind and wants to fly to Copenhagen to try and cut a fast deal... Harper in Canada quickly follows suit. What do these guys have in common?
Both countries central banks are run by immensely underpaid yet extremely civic-minded and altruistic Goldman Sachs alumni... can you say carbon credits?
I hope that Obama at least flies on a Goldman private jet because to use Air Force One for private business trips could be construed as unethical.
Just sayin'...
They hate us because we are Christians (and Jews, and Hindus, and Buddhists, etc. . .) Sayeed Qutb and Wabbab told them to. Mohammed told them to kill or convert us all.
We can mind our own business, but they'll keep coming after us. It is a requirement. We were minding our own business, having a nice time in Medieval Europe, and they came in rampaging and such. The Crusades were to push them back into the sandbox.
if the moors were were in spain than why would they invade through turkey to repel them? This comment makes no sense.
Muslim expansion in the 700s and on was as much an opportunistic land grab than some kind of holy crusade to convert everyone to Islam or kill them. The crusaders, while many were motivated by genuine piety, were also out to conquer under cover of religion. The crusades did not end well, by the way. The end of the Latin Kingdom of Jerusalem came about largely because the presence of the crusaders helped lead to the rise of Saladin, unifying the Muslims and helping to mostly destroy the Crusader States. I wonder what would happen if our presence there leads to the rise of a Saladin-like leader or state?
I just don't see how guaranteeing an endless war by continuing to stomp around the Middle East can possibly help anything.
Islam has always been at war with those who are not...it sucks but it is undeniable. Now you may argue and I may agree that going to war with Islam is a bad idea. But if you argue that we don't go to war with them then you have to explain how we stop them. Claiming that they will leave us alone if we leave them alone just shows your ignorance of history.
bullshit. islam has no more a history of war than say france, or america. being muslim, does not make them less than us.persia is an ancient culture. far older than europe or us
Please provide proof for your claim from an independent source (not a Christian fundamentalist or U.S. military source).
Thank you.
My goodness you seem to believe that I can supplement your pitiful grasp of history with snippets from blogs. Hilarious. Put the mouse down and step away from the computer long enough to read a few books about Islamic conquests.
“A moderate muslim is one who has read too little of their Koran. A Jihadist is one who has read too much.”
In 2003 less than 18 months past the attack of 9/11 fully 56% of the "moderate" muslims of Indonesia thought Bin Laden was a good force. Poll by Pew Research...
Thomas Jefferson was absolutely thrilled to be forced to send the Marines "Shores of Tripoli" to stop attacks on those evil imperialistic yankee trade ships.
You Paulians are a dangerous lot.
If you would to know ANYTHING about Islam and by extension about The Holy Quran you would not be making such retarded accusations. Try reading about the Islamic expansion in Spain and about the position of other religions in the Al-Andalus and, by an extension, in most other Islamic nations in the past and the present. Also; it would be fantastic if you would to read about how Islam treats Christians and Jews and how it had treated them in the past. And if you want to talk about murder, genocide and hatred then i will point you to app. 400 000 000 victims which were murdered directly is a consequence of Christian Theology and Papal Edicts. Also, try read the Talmud; it will make your stomach turn. All in all i can conclude the force of stupidity is strong in you.
P.S. The misconceptions about Islam arise from the actions and preachings of those who know very little about Islam, or a part of some Islamic Theological School (for example; Wahabi) which practically rules them out as true Muslims simply because they interpret the word of prophets (yes, there are more of them; but in short the prophetic lineage of Islam starts with Abraham, goes to Christ and ends up with Muhammad) and not follow it as said in The Holy Quran.
Also, i dont know what the fuck happened here, but the surge in retarded comments correlates with FED QE.
Lest we forget the millions of hindus, buddhists, christians, and jews killed all in the name of the religion of peace. The abrahamic twins of christianity and judaism are not that much better, however there can only be one world view in islam, that is islamic. See how islam expanded so quickly, and conversion by the sword that took place. It is far from a religion of peace. Mohammed himself was a warlord that encouraged jihad. Non-muslims that were people of the book were considered dhimmis, pagans and other forms of worship were immediately destroyed. Again a stunning example of the religion of peace.
And in the midst of all this, the devil laughs, and flies under our respective "radars"...
There is Declining Support for bin Laden and Suicide Bombing - Pew Research ...
And it was the CIA which originally radicalized the Muslims (please see quotes from former high leverl CIA officers like Robert Baer).
And please take a look at this Los Angeles Times Article, reviewing a BBC documentary entitled "The Power of Nightmares", which shows that the threat from Al Qaeda has been vastly overblown (and see this article on who is behind the hype).
And please note that a former National Security Adviser told the Senate that the war on terror is "a mythical historical narrative".
By the way, instead of listening to the warmongers in the Dem or Repub parties, you may wish to talk to TRUE conservatives or TRUE progressives ... virutally all of them are against the continuation of the Afghan and Iraqi wars.