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The Clusterfuck Is Complete: Meet Those Most Hurt By The Earls' Squatting: Conejo Capital Partners... And Soon Millions Of Other "Soon To Be Ex" Home-Buyers
By now the 30 minutes of media fame of the Simi Valley's most (in)famous squatters - the Earls is running out. Yet the consequences of the their actions will resound for a long, long time. The victims: all those may have bought a house in a foreclosure auction, or any other form of existing property sale, without a "lis pendens" or other form of pre-existing legal action, will suddenly think twice about purchasing a home from a bank, or any other owner who may have had a mortgage on the property (now in MERS limbo), and simply end up unwinding the sale. The reason, as Conejo Capital Partners notes, is that nobody will now know when some other set of squatters, who may have owed as much as the Earls (almost a million), and did not contest their loan in good standing with a bank, decide to take the law into their own hands and move right back in. "The most innocent of all victims in this situation
are the new buyers who had signed a contract to purchase the Mustang
property. They are a family of 4 who are adopting their first child this
month. They had already funded their loan, spent money on appraisals,
given notice at their current residence and were scheduled to take
possession of 5893 Mustang Drive on Tuesday the 12th. They
have now cancelled the transaction and are scrambling to find a place to
live as they will be homeless at the end of the month. They are scared.... We
especially feel for the children who are being subjected to this, and the
new buyers who will be temporarily homeless as a result of these events. In all likelihood, there is no way for us to recover the damages we have
suffered, this is no longer about winning; it is about what is right." And the tragedy in all of this, is that there is no clear guily party, as everyone is to blame: the banks, for rushing on the original sale to rake up the NINJA fees, the foreclosure "experts" for robosigning to accumulate the lowest possible cost basis on the subsequent MBS resale for the mortgage servicer, and the squatters, for deciding to take the law into their own hands, when suddenly there is no law. One thing is certain, this incident will propagate and will make existing home sale next to impossible. And yes, inventory will accumulate, but demand will plunge, resulting in a total collapse of the supply-demand equilibrium point, better known to those idiots a/k/a economic Ph.Ds, as price. But that is precisely what happens when in the pursut of material gains, by everyone, the rule of law is now completely trampled in the USA.
The following from Conejo Capital Partners is a must read, for a full perspective on the other side of the Earls' story. Because there always is an alterantive point of view.
OFFICIAL STATEMENT FROM CONEJO CAPITAL PARTNERS LLC REGARDING THE PROPERTY LOCATED AT 5893 MUSTANG DRIVE, SIMI VALLEY CA:
October 15, 2010
Given the extraordinary and illegal events orchestrated by the former homeowners and their attorney, we now feel compelled to share the facts regarding 5893 Mustang Drive.
On January 28, 2010 the property was sold thru a public auction at the trustee sale held at the Ventura County Court House. Each month this same process occurs thousands of times across the nation as a method for banks to take back or dispose of the property that is not being paid for. Conejo Capital was the “successful” bidder. Shortly thereafter the former bank issued the title and it was legally recorded with Conejo Capital Partners LLC as the new owner of the property. At the time all we knew about the property was that the former homeowners purchased it in 2001 for $539,000, and that they later refinanced it, pulling equity out, resulting in debt of roughly $1,000,000. No “lis pendens” had been recorded indicating any disagreement or legal action pending regarding the property. Had they done so before the auction, we would not have purchased this property.
After purchasing the property we found it to be occupied by the former home owners, Jim & Danielle Earl. We were able to make contact with them and tried to understand their situation. They expressed their opinion that they had been unlawfully foreclosed on by the bank. Yet to our knowledge, the Earls had not initiated a lawsuit against any bank at that time, and as far as we know even today there is no pending lawsuit against any bank. Any grievance they had would have been with their bank, not Conejo Capital Partners. We tried to amicably discuss terms of a possible agreement which would have helped them make a comfortable transition but they were unwilling. They gave us no choice other than having to start an action against them to gain physical possession of the property.
The unlawful detainer action (eviction trial) is something that normally takes roughly a month to complete, but they stretched it out to almost 6 months by filing two bankruptcies. The first one was dismissed due to their failure to file the proper paper work and the second was probably dismissed as well. At the unlawful detainer trial, the judge thoroughly reviewed all of the facts of the case and ruled in favor of Conejo Capital Partners LLC and ordered the Earl’s to vacate the property. We were also awarded a monetary judgment in the amount of just over $27,000 (fair market rental value for the time they illegally occupied the property). The Earls appealed the decision but their appeal was dismissed by the court because they failed to pay the court its required appellate costs. The Earls’ attorney sent us threatening correspondence and amazingly described his plan to a federal court judge in San Francisco that he planned to undertake “self help” to retake possession of the Mustang property illegally. The federal judge denied their motion for an injunction and ruled that the "Plaintiffs have offered no authority in support of this extraordinary concept (of “self help" seizure of the Mustang property).
On July 2, 2010 the Ventura County Sheriff and an agent of ours went to the property to complete the court-ordered eviction. There, they found that the Earls had departed but (based upon their attorney’s advice), the Earls left all of the personal belongings, in the Mustang house including all of their furniture, cars and the family dog. This extraordinary tactic caused us another 2 week delay because we were forced to follow the legal guidelines in dealing with the situation. The Earls contacted us at the very last minute before we would have had legal right to dispose of the property and we allowed them to retrieve it at no additional cost to them.
Once we had gained possession of the Mustang Property, we spent a considerable amount of money remodeling it. When the remodeling was complete, we put it on the market for sale. We secured a buyer and were scheduled to close escrow on Monday October 11th. On Saturday October 9th the Earls and their attorney followed thru with their previous threats and took the law into their own hands. They hired a locksmith to break into the Mustang home. They had arranged to have t.v. news cameras filming their actions, and then proceeded to hold a press conference stating that they were within their rights and that we (Conejo Capital Partners) had somehow violated the law. All along the Simi Valley Police Department sat idle and refused to get involved no matter how much proof was offered supporting our legal rights and position. We were told that we needed to resolve it in front of a judge even though it had already been decided. In the days immediately following, the same attorney has done this again in Escondido and Newport Beach (the latter time both the attorney and his clients were arrested). It is amazing that this can happen in a nation founded on and based upon law. It is truly sad that all across America so many people claim to be the “victim” rather than taking personal responsibility for their actions.
It needs to be noted that Conejo Capital Partners LLC did not take the home from the Earls, their bank did. We simply purchased the home from the bank in a legal manner and then had to deal with the situation that had been created. Conejo Capital Parnters LLC is not a large Wall Street bank, we represent a group of regular people who are hard working citizens that pay their bills and abide by the law. We have approached the Earls on many occasions in an attempt to see if we could find an amicable resolution but in each case have been denied. We offered to waive our monetary judgment in simple exchange for confidence that we wouldn’t find ourselves wrapped up in litigation that ultimately results in everyone losing. Although the former homeowner had roughly $1,000,000 in debt against the home, both they and their attorney have said in recent interviews that they feel like they don’t owe anything and in fact are owed damages as well.
The Earls’ attorney announced proudly that he “chose” the Earls because he needed to protect the new buyers from being defrauded by us. It is extremely unfortunate that he is putting others in jeopardy as a way to create notoriety for himself. The facts about Mr. Pines life are well documented and we urge you to do your homework on him and decide about his motives for yourself.
The most innocent of all victims in this situation are the new buyers who had signed a contract to purchase the Mustang property. They are a family of 4 who are adopting their first child this month. They had already funded their loan, spent money on appraisals, given notice at their current residence and were scheduled to take possession of 5893 Mustang Drive on Tuesday the 12th. They have now cancelled the transaction and are scrambling to find a place to live as they will be homeless at the end of the month. They are scared.
This is a terribly unfortunate situation to be involved in, one that we wouldn’t wish for anyone to experience. We especially feel for the children who are being subjected to this, and the new buyers who will be temporarily homeless as a result of these events. In all likelihood, there is no way for us to recover the damages we have suffered, this is no longer about winning; it is about what is right. We didn’t ask for a fight; it was brought to us. Now with no other options, we feel compelled to do everything in our power without regard to cost or time to protect ourselves and insure this does not happen to others.
Conejo Capital Partners LLC
h/t Robert
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" Soon, only the houses with no outstanding mortgage since 1997 will have clear title."
Martin Armstrong tracks a 26 year cycle in real estate - he's never explained (that I have seen anyway) his methodology for this cycle - he just showed a chart in one of his papers - peak of the cycle was in 2006 - trough in 2032 - ie, 26 years of downward pressure on real estate prices
there are some factors that would contribute to this downtrend:
- Boomer downsizing (ultimately into coffins and urns)
- shadow inventory
- unwinding of all the derivative paper written on top of real estate (MBS, CDO, etc - are they debts? assets? does anybody know at this point?)
now we have another serious contributing factor:
- clouded titles
be very careful buying real estate
More like be very careful having RE that is free and clear. I would be a little more worried about publicly owning some asset that is unencumbered. People with nothing to lose and a corrupt banking industry are ready to "sell" your property out from under you. That paid for house is a pile of money waiting to be looted. Whether its trying to be judgment proof or keeping a low profile, own your home free and clear, but file a bogus mortgage you control on top of it to hide in plain sight. Just say'in.
Wait, a states issue?.
LOL,wait until these BAD loans (as in not properly executed), are unwound in the CDS bundles that got sold to overseas entities.
Also, the states should only be involved in this mess, if the Bank is/has been established/Chartered in said state.
If not, onus should be passed back to the home state of the invloved Banks main Headquarters/ Charter. IMHO
Transfers of documents are to be recorded within the Counties of each State.
Foreclosures are the instances that I am referring to.
+100
well, Conejo purchased "stolen" property, and should sue the mtg. company, and the defaulters should sue the mtg. company, and if I take a fast-track through law school, there still may be some law suits about this stuff three years from now. "an increase in all things vampire"
…if you erase the debt record, we all go back to zero…
Say your prayers, rabbit.
Getting families (and us) to blame each other is stupid and unpatriotic, if you think it through. We need to eliminate the DC/NY elite or at minimum their power in society. Yet this sob story wants to distract us by pitting ordinary citizens against each other while crying about losing speculative cash.
The flipping company is just a parasite relying on the underlying Ponzi/Fed insanity so hey, hope they didn't invest anything they couldn't afford to lose...no different than buying a bunch of gold or GOOG but it turned out sour. No tears there.
I don't get how the new family is hurt by the Earls' self-repo. They are hurt by middlemen who lose critical documents and commit crimes to cover up their negligence. The same bad guys that are hurting my babies with hundreds of thousands of dollars in new debts before they are out of diapers.
We know who the black hats are. The Earls ain't them.
"We especially feel for the children who are being subjected to this"
At least they're learning a valuable lesson early in life. This is America. Think like a criminal, son. Think like a thug.
Could we be witnessing the death of the MBS business? Seriously folks, it is going to get really expense to securitize mortgages!
Gawd, I'll miss ol' MBS, and the 2 bps he shaved off my mortgage, and the trillion or more in Gubmint absorbed losses I get to chip in to cover. Ol' Emby, it was a wild ride pal, RIP buddy.
PS - Would someone keep an eye on the casket, so Blankfien doesn't slip in with these:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://virtuallyshocking.com/wp-cont...
Inter arma silent leges
Aut viam inveniam aut faciam
...and my all time favorite:
Illegitimi non carborundum -- Joe StillwellI love that one, and...
Jacta alea est
Wii Wii.
Clusterfuck is exactly the right word for all this.
Imagine if you will, what will happen when this scenario arrives in China, which it will.
FOR ALL OF YOU WHO JUNK ME, READ THIS NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Let me repeat myself for all who still don't understand the "issue". The Earls did not make payments on their mortgage payment. This fact alone allows "an entity" to foreclose on the Earls for defaulting on their mortgage. The obvious "entity" who is definitely allowed to "legally" pursue the foreclosure is the entity who originated the loan. Did everyone get that? Good.
Now the "issue" is that the originator of the loan (with whom there is no legal issue with respect to the right to foreclose on the Earl) has re-assign his "rights" to some other party with respect to the Earl's loan. In other words, the originating entity sold the Earl's loan to another party (i.e. a bank). The next party sold it again and again and again to the next party. All of which is fine and good except that with each sale, including the very first sale, the "originating entity" did not assign (or convey) the right to foreclose on the Earl to the buying party. Did you all get that now?
The buyer of the Earl's loan was not savvy (smart, careless?, whatever) enough to demand that the "originating entity" convey its right to foreclose on the Earl's loan (in case of default) in a "legal" manner. Did everyone get that?
It is as if a bank made a purchase loan to a homebuyer without recording it at the county recorder (a mere technicality some would say) and now demands the right to foreclose on the homebuyer when the homebuyer does not pay the mortgage. Now does everyone get IT?
Imagine a bank dumb enough not to record a deed of trust (the legal definition of a mortgage) on a loan. And now that STUPID BANK demands the right to foreclose on you when you do not make the mortage payment.
Does the fact that the STUPID BANK was too stupid to legally preserve its right to foreclose on you a technicality if you decide to contest it?
Yes, you sign a contract with the bank, but by state law, the bank must record the deed of trust in order to LEGALLY foreclose on you. If the STUPID BANK did not record the deed, then he is not LEGALLY allowed to foreclose on you even if you don't pay. GET IT NOW??
FOR ALL OF YOU WHO JUNK ME, FUCK YOU!!!!
That was a good explanation. Now let me ask you a question. The originating bank has the right to foreclose, right? So how does the chain get repaired so the foreclosure may legally be carried out?
Lucius Cornelius,
You asked THE MOST IMPORTANT QUESTION.
My understanding is that there is no LEGAL way of conveying the right to foreclose now unless you rewind all transactions back to the originating bank. It has to do with the legal tax consequences of the MBS securitization and the fact that the MBS are precluded from taking on non performing loans. Karl Denninger explains it clearly over at market-ticker.org.
I am not a fan of Denninger on all matters (especially his stance on gold since I am very much a 'goldbug') but he does an excellent job explaining the minute details of all that is involved.
Like you, when I first heard of this foreclosure gate a while back, I assumed that the banks were just being lazy and trying to save a few bucks and shorten the length of time in order to speed up the foreclosure process. When I hear of 'forged documents', I naturally assumed that the banks were indeed able to get the legal documents but it was too costly and timely to re-produce in a legal manner so they were merely taking advantage of the court by saving money and time. After reading Denninger and doing my own research, I realized that given an infinite amount of money and time, certain loans will NEVER be able to be foreclosed upon if we follow the law.
As Denninger explained, the conveyance has to be done when the loan was entered into the securitization as a matter of tax law. No amount of money or time can undo that now. The current law prevents any retroactive or future actions from making it legal now to foreclose. That is why the BANKS are dead if we respect the current laws.
Hope this helps.
Btw, I am a fan of Marcus Licinius Crassus, the richest man who ever lived.
Here is the deal:
1. First step, the borrower (homeowner) signed a wet ink note/deed to borrow from the loan brokers. At closing, everything will be recorded in the county via the closing agent.
2. Sometime after closing, the broker sold the loan to the originator ( a bank TBTF). The broker was fully paid the loan and hence, no standing in foreclosure.
3. Then the originator sold the loan into an special vehicle entity (SIV) to create a bankruptcy remote environment so that the loans can be securitized.
4. During the 2 and 3 above, the note/deed were not recorded in the county per the state law/established property law, but rather recorded in the MERS.
5. The loans were finally sold into a trust pursuant to the REMIC structure. Pursuant to both the New York Trust law and the IRS regulation, REMIC must get the notes/deed within 90 days. once the deadline was passed, there is no way to cure or perfect the securities interest.
6. It appears that the REMIC trust never get the notes/deed recorded in the county record office, while pretending to own the underlying notes and then sold the trust ownership to investors, including pension funds, all over the world.
Now, the bank, who sold the loans into the SIV and were paid in full, and hence, no standing to foreclose because it was not the mortgage holder.
Now, the trust, paid for the loans, but failed to observe the laws of unbroken title and fails to record the notes in the county, could not foreclose because it cannot be proven to own the mortgage right. And it cannot cure the defect because IRS ruling of REMIC will cause serious tax problems if trust trys to perfect the mortgage right interest.
The real owner of the trust is the investor of the trust. But since banks never in the first place transferred the notes into the trust, nor recorded properly in the first, those investors are being defrauded by the originator who set up the trust and also do not have the standing to foreclose.
So, what originally was a secured loan, collaterized by lien on the house, suddenly beame an unsecured loan. Under this scenario, no one owns the mortgage right and no one has the standing to foreclose.
So, TBTF banks, of course, knew this. The only way to get out of this is forging the documents pretending they own the notes, and, therefore, the right to foreclose.
Well, shit meets fan, that's what we have here. No one has the right to foreclose the house whose loan was sold into securitization sometime between 2000 and 2007. For the same reason, all those buyers who bought foreclosure are bought from someone who don't have the right to foreclose in the first place. Cloudy Titles !
A mess! Now that squatters had made the news, expect millions ex-owners of fraudclosure all claim their home via the locksmith by locking out the banks.
HILARIOUS! Welcome to the land of Lock-out and Lock-in.
Thank you for the reply straightshooter.
Basically, there is no way to re-chain the right to foreclose no matter what.
So why shoot the Earls? This is a FED anchored issue. I junked you for being such an idiot. Go give yourself an uppercut and knock yourself conscious.
Nice post Straight.
And this is exactly why I believe inevitably after living for months/years free those who previously thought they being foreclosed on will after saving up a bulk of cash..walk away from their mortgage which becomes void without any credit report reflection. These ppl will still have ruined credit from likely not paying their credit card bills however still a big win for them. They get to squirrel cash and buy a home 50% lower in 2 years after coming collapse.
So now banks are not only to not get that cash flow but alot if those securities with unicorn values because of not having to mark to market may no longer be able to pretend those securities will ever return to par if voided. With moral hazard precedent and example laid out by the US Gov toward te elites we now will see more toe dippers begin to say " that's it..no more unemployment check enough with my pride I'm not paying my mortgage"
And that is why the first Bailout of the finance industry was the absolute worst thing they could have done. Letting Lehman fail wasnthe only thing they got right. You cannot have a separate set of rules for the elites and one for the serfs. People are beginning to see something is very wrong with Congress, the mainstream media and they have engorged themselves on a many lies as their bellies could stand.
They now know the jobs are gone and not coming back. I think it's time for a big Jump in UEC withing 2 months to 530,000 range.
When do the taxpayers finally figure out that the mortgages they back are now un-securitized? Where was the AG? How could the USG and FED allow this to happen? Wasn't it their responsibility to regulate the MBS market? This is friggin insanity!
4. During the 2 and 3 above, the note/deed were not recorded in the county per the state law/established property law, but rather recorded in the MERS.
With 60M individual "obligations" in their data base, I'm wondering how many double or triple assignments to various MBS's there might be. Actually, it seems to me that, with some imagination, the whole thing could be a giant slot machine, with each yank on the handle yielding a different combination of results. How many different combinations of 60M taken, say, 1,000 at a time are there?
And what would be the odds of duplicate spins coming up often enough for anyone to see the pattern? Especially if "only" 5% of the notes (3M, yet small enough to plausibly attribute to "clerical error") were assigned to more than one MBS.
Something tells me that the banksters' quants would know within 0.001% probability. And I wonder where that would lead . . . given that the odds would seem to be truly infinitesimal.
I'm reminded of Fight Club:
A new car built by my company leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The rear differential locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Take the number of vehicles in the field, A, multiply by the probable rate of failure, B, multiply by the average out-of-court settlement, C. A times B times C equals X. If X is less than the cost of a recall, we don't do one.
But surely banksters wouldn't do anything like that, right?
These cloudy titles can all be cleared up at the origination of the first fraud.
The original buyers were defrauded of their credit at the time of creating the mortgage loan, and it is with them to claim their property and discharge the debt under the Uniform Commercial Code.
Banks don't lend money or credit. They access Your credit with your signature on the loan application. Then they bring the credit into the bank.
They withhold your credit. They make you sign a promissory note, making you promise to pay them back for your credit plus the interest for the life of the loan. Withholding credit is a violation of law.
This would all clear up if people would file a UCC 1 Financing Statement correctly claiming themselves at the CREDITOR with a security interest of the assets, debts, liens, real property, marriage, children, of themselves the DEBTOR.
This gives you standing to manage your own commercial affairs. As a Transmitting Utility under Article 3 of the Uniform Commercial Code, you can discharge your debt.
See my other posts for details.
I must be dense because I'm still not understanding this. A UCC-1 form lists a debtor, a creditor and a description of the security/assets. Are you saying list yourself as both debtor and creditor? What would the assets be?
Maybe you could just tell us what to fill in, or perhaps some URL's where we can learn more. Fascinating posts though.
+1 great post. thanks.
Thank you for the explanation samsterns. Let me ask you another question, since I know next to nothing about the mortgage business. Do you think that the cost to properly transfer title will put an end to the MBS business? I'm thinking that the amount of time it takes for County governments to transfer titles is a major impediment. Plus the administrative and/or legal fees...
Hey, you, yeah, I'm talkin' to you. I don't see anybody else. Fuck me? No, Fuck you.
Junked you for posting the same thing twice, douchebag. Most of the people around here already "get it" and don't need you to tell us to "READ THIS NOW!!!"
Assfuck dipshit. Suck on that.
Perhaps the junks come from the attitude, not the opinion or facts you present.
Most of us don't consider ourselves to be stupid, whether we are or not. If we don't see things your way, that doesn't presume stupidity nor ignorance.
I'd recommend you not pursue a career in a field that requires tact or patience.
I'll just say +1,000 here, once, versus putting them on your posts all over this thread.
Blind obedience to one's own truth, to the exclusion of all others, and the denigration of other opinions, bugs the crap outta me.
he'll learn. probably used to being the bully in his circle of friends. doesn't work here.
I tend to think that if it wasn't working he wouldn't keep doing that.
Like those little ads in the back of Popular Mechanics. They go on for years and years and never change -- because they work.
Tip of the day .....
WB7
Go into photoshop, go to layers, if you have an image that contrast or say you have uncle ben on a white backround and want to drop out backround without pen/eraser. Double click that image layer to brings up layer styles------ drop shadow,inner shadow,outer glow,bevel emboss ect ...
Now see the....... Blend if grey: at bottom of window well go below and see the triangle slider 0-255. well move over the black one and click on it as you hold down option/alt key. You will now split the triangle in 1/2 and now slide one to the inside as you keep the other half on 255 or to drop out your white backround go to the triangle on the 0 and split that up.... You can remove your backround in seconds now, now blur ... and your done!Mess around moving all 4...
If you notice you can control this layer/underlying layer, this is great when you want to blend two layers (plane in clouds) you blend using the 255 shades of grey, seemless photorealistic montage ...
Enjoy.
Also if you have a weak image dup layer and change top layer from normal to overlay move opacity to 20% give your image extra punch great for old photos...
Tnx Spald
See how easy it is to communicate the GPS coords of Angelo aka the Annoying Orange through ZH comments?
http://laughingsquid.com/you-suck-at-photoshop-by-donnie-hoyle/
I work near the County Courthouse in a major city. Every Friday they auction properties. Usually there are 50 or so bidders in front of the building as I walk to lunch. Last Friday there were 4. I think they were the usual RE agents that are there to push their listings. So probably no buyers at all showed up.
This kind of very tragic drama is just a distraction from the truth--land conveyance in America was the one bright thing people could depend upon because the law protected and secured people's interests---if that changes, there will be nothing left of this once great land America, only a blood sucking crime syndicate that is our legislators making legal what is criminal for the fed cartel.
It is sad for the Earls sad for the Investment group that bought their fraudulently foreclosed home, and sad for the buyers with a baby who thought they had a great deal--but that doesn't mean that the proper procedure was applies on the foreclosure of the Earls' home--and, with a CENTRAL BANK LENDING MONEY TO THE BANK CARTEL FOR 0% YOU WOULD THINK, REFINANCING WOULD BE AN OPTION EVEN FOR THOSE WITH THE WORST CREDIT TO PROTECT EVERYONE INVOLVED--THAT IS, IF PROPERTY CONFISCATION WASN'T PART OF THE WHOLE IDEA, IN THE END, THAT IS, THE NEXT HEIST FOR THE TOOCROOKED TO FAIL BANKS AKA, THE PRIVATELY OWNED FED.
On it like a bonnet, go girl.
Hi McCreant!!!
Wow.
From Trulia:
Conejo Capital Partners owns 27 homes in Ventura County alone, according to the County Records. All of these properties were purchased at Trustee Sales with all cash (using private party investors).
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
BEST ANSWER
My short sale offer to the bank was in the 600,000's and the president of the bank said it was too low. The home sold in auction in the 400,000's. I was told by my realtor that they were pretty darn positive that they could stop the home from going into auction....
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
The Earls V. the Early
Just who is Conejo Capital Partners?
It is not unlike many other organizations that expose capital to the risk of loss in order to seize an opportunity (buy low…sell high). Notwithstanding the hyperventilation that colors their above representation of the”facts”…. finally concluding with this futile and even comic threat:
“Now with no other options, we feel compelled to do everything in our power without regard to cost or time”.
Conejo was early to this trade….way early
There are risks in acquiring property via a trustee deed, Conejo Capital Partners (CCP) characterization of this method of acquiring property as: typical and unceremonious is; false, not borne out by history, tradition, and moreover.....the very facts of this case.
When a bank grants title to a bidder at a trustee auction (via the trustee), this occurs without the consent of the current mortgage holder, bank customer, de-facto "owner"…this is a transaction that is a snake pit of danger. The bank feels confident to act in this unilateral manner because it believes the original mortgage contact solidly grants this right, the reality is more nuanced; it both does, and does not..
There are no rights without responsibilities, which is why the trustee sale event is not simply about the mortgage, but also about the method, context, history, law, and precedent of taking property absent the consent of the "owner".
Adverse possession, constructive easement, condemnation, eminent domain, trustee deed…are all examples of such a taking…. they are all a hornets’ nest both legally and politically.
To the best of my knowledge, in the State of California, there has never been a trustee deed issued with the benefit of title insurance.
CCP was eager to enter these waters and buy property without title insurance…why would they have been so motivated to act without the benefit of insurance? Because they were getting a deal they could not resist, and (from the Trulia blog it appears) they had a buyer waiting in the wings. They could have simply consulted the new buyer, or negotiated a short sale with the lender for the benefit of the new buyer..or even financed the new buyers purchase and then immediately sold the note (a difficult maneuver within a trustee sale… but not impossible)..No, they chose rather to be the middleman, flip the property, and capture the spread.
Beyond the gamble of the trustee sale, was another monumental peril: knowingly taking possession of property that comes with a congregation of 11 (eleven). Who buys a property with an: occupant, tenant, squatter, caretaker, et-al…Even the most casual real estate investor knows that buying a house “pre-heated” is an outright grab-bag of potential catastrophe.
When we strip out the emotion we are left with the following…CCP miscalculated and acted boldly….too early… well they are not alone…
RMBS are being priced and traded in the marketplace at very very substantial discounts. Why might this be… because of risk. For a variety of reasons, Mortgages have become toxic, who is not aware of this?
You would be mortified to learn your mortgage is trading hands at price levels that are beyond shocking. Investors are betting this paper will eventually be money good, dreaming it will redeem at par, and they will succeed in capturing the spead.
If CCP is not bluffing with their laughable threats, and continues to vigorously defend; ….well when a jury is presented with the facts, I can guarantee they will conclude that the trustee deed CCP was granted, was quite typical, in that it arrived without the benefit of a guarantee.
+++
"Investors are betting this paper will eventually be money good, dreaming it will redeem at par, and they will succeed in capturing the spead." Question: who gets the money after the banks foreclose then resell homes whose mortgages have been packaged into worthless MBS's that have been sold multiple times?
Excellent color added to the debate. I might add to your list the Sheriff's Sale. This is a sale for failure to pay property taxes (or other debt like a materialman's lien). There is a redemption period, some number of months or years, during which the defaulter can bring the taxes current and claim the property. A Sheriff's Deed is a shaky basis upon which to set up housekeeping. There is no guarantee of fee simple ownership until the redemption period has expired.
The 'redemption period' is the time period between the sale and issuance of the deed. This can vary from state to state and from one situation to the other. During the redemption period the owner, junior lien-holders, tenants, and (usually) anyone else with a record interest that may be impaired by foreclosure can pay the full amount bid at the sale and take over the position of the winning bidder.
It will be interesting to see what courts rule when these foreclosures are challenged after the fact. Typically the time to raise challenges is during the foreclosure, so I'd expect most of the foreclosures to stand - though the foreclosing parties may get hit for damages (based on a claim of fraud). However, if a state has 'streamlined' the process there could be questions of due process raised and an appeals court may think otherwise. Getting a deed set aside is an uphill battle, though. Generally, there is a limited time to challenge a court order - 12-18 months (though soldiers serving overseas, minors and other classes may get special treatment).
I'm not a lawyer - I search and examine title (oil and gas now - but I did own a title company in a previous life). I'd be really interested in a legal opinon on this subject.
Clearly there is risk here for any purchaser. That's why title insurers are backing away from these deals as fast as they can! Personally, if I could get a title policy on the property that my lawyer liked (he's a smart, mean a-hole - but he's MY smart, mean a-hole) then this risk wouldn't stop me from doing the deal.
Tax Deeds or Treasurer's Deeds issued for back taxes are a different kettle of fish. Challenges to them can be brought years after the issuance of the Deed.
Of course, all of the above assumes that the rule of law (all of the law) is fairly applied - an assumption I am not willing to make right now. Like I said, it will be interesting to see how the courts start ruling in these cases.
As an aside, I know people in the late 80's who bought foreclosures and flipped them. Getting the previous owners out of the property was always a problem. This situation is nothing new.
Thank you for your clarification. Now, imagine that this lawful process were shortcut by greedy county officials and law enforcement personnel for personal gain. That's what we have on a national level.
I'm afraid that too many of the now foreclosed upon families have no recourse for one main reason: they are broke! If they weren't they would not have been foreclosed on in the first place. Goes to show ya, if you are poor you ain't got a chance at justice.
That's what happened to my x-wife and her boyfriend. By the time he realized he was getting bent over he was broke. He gave Wells Fargo a good fight, but just dug a deeper hole. He has filed for bankruptcy - something he should have done two years ago.
The foreclosure process in Colorado was 'streamlined' several years ago to eliminate some of the more tedious requirements like notices - or so I've been told. I'm not in the title insurance business anymore so I'm not up on recent foreclosure statutes. I think that is a nationwide phenomena.
There's going to be a lot of pissed off people out there, Rocky. That's for certain.
CCP = Glorified Pawn Brokers
Special place in hell for folks like them.
And some of us recognized in 2001/2002 that eventually hell would meet that the handbasket. Is this the tipping point - don't know and increasingly don't care. I know it will affect us as a trading partner - but jeez do something!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VkmEZs_Kcms
California is where the shit will go down first. Nowhere I have been can compare to their inbred sense of entitlement, lack of work ethic, morals or shame.
This is a mess but skums will be skums, without shame. Who else would adopt kids with no income, but the kids themselves??
It is sad, that we are becomming a nation of asswipers...without any industry I suppose wiping old people's asses will become the great breadwinners job.. probably degrees will be offered in it.
California's lack of work ethic generates an economic output that is larger than the output of all but nine other countries.
Who else would adopt kids with no income ...
If this comment refers to the Earls, they co-own a business that generated enough income to allow them to qualify for a fairly large mortgage. It sounds like you don't know the facts of California's economy or the story of the Earls. Yet you comment anyway.
"This is a mess but skums will be skums, without shame. Who else would adopt kids with no income, but the kids themselves??"
"they co-own a business that generated enough income to allow them to qualify for a fairly large mortgage"
in 2001 they qualified for a mortgage based on $539K purchase price - by 2010 they had at least $880K in debt against said house - you are assuming that they qualified for the $340K in refi cash that they pulled out of the property based on income - with NINJA loans (one of the facts of California's economy that you refer to), all they had to do was fog a mirror
the Earls are free loaders, plain and simple - they were living off the house to the tune of $38K/year and now claim they don't owe a penny
Thank you for explaining this to the pro-freeloader crowd here.
ZH used to be about people who wanted the system fixed but now filled with excuse makers trying to justify the "everyone is doing it, I'm gonna get mine" attitude.
This is a mess, but ultimately the skums will be removed..some push backs to banks and the buck passed on to screw the taxpayers.
I speak not of the "economy" of California which is largely a result of exports to Asia, of American goods (of which other that wine- not much is made in California), but the skum without a sense of right and wrong. Oh they have the "mainsteam" Hollywood movies and porn industries- but I guess I mentioned the lack of morals.
Mark my words, California will be hit first and worst.
My point about co-owning a business that generated significant income was meant to address AssFire's comments about sense of entitlement and work ethic. My comment about how much mortgage that income would support was meant to indicate that the income was significant; it was not a comment on the difficulty of getting a mortgage in California.
I think the term "freeloader" has a specific meaning. The original story stated that the Earls were staying current on their payments and had almost paid off the missed payements. If that is correct, then the term freeloader does not apply here. Those at ZH who insist that we pay attention to the actual facts of the Earls case are arguing only that. To the extent that the facts presented so far are correct, you are out of place to claim that these ZHers are supporting freeloaders.
AssFire and bronzie, your points are valid in the appropriate situation. If the facts presented about the Earls case are correct, this is not that appropriate situation.
Richard, the numbers are there- they went negative on their equity (except for the extend/pretend world). I am just disgusted with the comments of too many here about blowing off their mortgages and their plans to just "enjoy life".
I agreed with you about GW's historonics concerning the BP spill; but as we will see, almost all of these "victims" are like jail inmates- they deserve to be there.
The more people get on the gov. dole, the faster we become like Greece. That Vainty Fair acrticle about the state of Greece really opened my eyes as to what the bottom will look like.
If they bail out California, the nation is finished.
AssFire, your fears are well-measured. there is an unprecedented attitude of indulgence at any expense that exceeds even the 'roaring 20's'. Savers and investors are in the minority, and we are being subjected to 'mob rules' democracy as it relates to bailouts and endless 'victims'. of course, this only prolongs the inevitable pain.
that said, the 'property flipping' business has much for which to answer. We know this.
You don't want to live to see how we'll 'wipe' you, old-timer.
Think Inuit and ice floes...and to think you could have had an opium-den, if you'd played your cards better.
Don't worry about wiping my ass... I'll do the responsible thing and off myself before I become a "dependent". That is the difference- if I can't be productive I will not take others' money or time, unlike the whiners. The self important, entitled narcissists can enjoy their last days living in a Gov. run shithouse- not me.
+1. I hope you never off yourself, because I, for one, will miss your commentary.
Just notice from Bron's GoldChat site...
http://goldchat.blogspot.com/
that the Perth Mint has its own blog now, and that you can also now buy gold & silver on-line there.
http://www.perthmintbullion.com/Blog/Blog.aspx
I posted a question there about bullion audits. Hopefully they will respond.
I'm not understanding the anger and wishes for violence aimed at the Earls.
Haven't the banks been playing illegal corporate tag with mortgage notes for a known number of years? Hasn't everyone here been aware of this behavior for at least, oh say a day or two before the news of the Earls went viral? So why now do the Earls need to be shot, maimed and otherwise punished? They represent a random force kicking a foundation block out from under the Ponzi and yet screams of foul play are going up from all sides.
The banks are again golden as many of the referees here insist we all must only concern ourselves with the poor family displaced by the Earls. The thousands upon thousands of illegally foreclosed upon families that came before the Earls may now be safety ignored. The Ponzi block that was kicked away must be replace at all costs. WTF? I mean really, WTF?
I think that the family that was trying to buy the Mustang Drive property should join with the Earls and sue Conejo Capital and the original bank that "sold" the property to Conejo.
1. The bank did not have the right to foreclose on the Earls
2. The bank did not have title and did not have the right to sell the property to the Conejo.
3. Conejo did not have title and did not have the right to sell the property to the new family.
Earls and New Family sue bank and Conejo. Simple. I would be even more interesting if the bank and Conejo colluded. This becomes probable in my mind when a company like Conejo is hanging around with a lot of cash.
That's exactly my take on the situation. Sure, I'd be pissed big time about losing my house -- but also willing, able and jumping at a chance to help kick big banking's sleazy butt.
I hear you but no. You are trying to figure out where to put your family of 4 and your new adopted child. You have less than a month to do it when you were set to move into this house. Yeah you need to deal with this shit storm, but you gotta move out of the old place and find a new one, fast. That is where your energy will be, mostly.
They are going to get settledand all the stress this caused will eventually be paid to them for their duress .How much you wanna bet people are trying to send them money so they can be put up for a little while ? (I would hope some here would take that initiative) . The bad guys are the banks ,none of this should really be an issue .
B2A5DE8E-17C4-29EB-4B06-4C8A89D4ED7D 1.02.28So why now do the Earls need to be shot, maimed and otherwise punished?
OldSouth - Cognitive Dissonance will write a five-part article that answers this question. In that series he will deal with the number of us that need to believe in the just-world hypothesis. That is, we need to believe that life is ultimately fair. When presented with evidence that might undermine this belief (thereby creating cognitive dissonance), we blame the victim. In doing this, we re-establish our belief that life is fair after all. The Earls were not the victims of unfairness. They actually had it coming to them.
There. All better. All is well with the world.
Bingo!
great theory poorly applied in this case. However, by this reasoning, WE ARE ALL VICTIMS. Even the sociopaths at the highest levels who did not get enough hugs from daddy.
Is there an honest real estate broker? Is there an honest banker? Our challenges are systemic in nature. Clearly, there is a high amount of fraud involved, probably in this case. However, I do not so easily let the Earl's off of the hook as it relates to their end of the bargain. Nor do I condemn every mortgage broker and banker as corrupt.
I'm all for sorting out 'the bad guys' from 'the good guys'. The Earls, in my opinion, are sorry excuses for 'the good guys'.
Lets all go wild on the bank that foreclosed on the home that was not even mortgaged. I believe we can all call that bank a criminal operation in unison with fervor!!!
GOLD updated chart showing parabolic move.
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com
WTF are people doing with their money?
Is everyone here watching their holdings go down to zero?
Besides buying PM stocks or physical, has anyone withdrawn all their dollars from the system? Hss anyone moved it all to an Australian bank? Assuming the economy as we know it will come to an end, something needs to be done to beat the herd, to beat the run on the markets and banks. Advice please.
Feeling like a deer in the headlights here too. Which way to run?
PM's---top of market? Risk of loss/massive profit/lack of liquidity/edibleness/feasibility of barter.
Go all cash----Teller looks at you and calls mental hospital, wife agrees to commit you for as long as your reprogramming takes. Certain debasement.
Food/guns/ammo---Wife calls mental hospital and bank agrees to give her control of money.
Real estate---See clusterfuck above.
Stocks---bubbly.
Stay in road and watch headlights---guaranteed destruction.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5xNA8seaqGQ&feature=player_embedded
Sounds like your first trade should be your wife.
Already on #2. Would need to self-commit to hospital to go for #3. ;)
I see you have been here for over a year. Either you haven't been staying current on your ZH readings, or... well some other reason. You know what to do. Check into why you are frozen up. A dab o' counseling maybe? Not a bad thing in this day and age.
"Yes, Doctor, that's what I said. The world as we know it is about to implode and a raccoon on the internet suggested I come see you."
In all seriousness, I've been dabbling in PM's and food stocks and read ZH every day. Finding it hard to go "all in" though. Thanks for all your posts over the past year, you're a treasure.
Ooh, yeah, they'd lock you up for sure. Don't say that!
Sounds like you're doing just fine. Don't know what part of the country (or world for that matter) you are in, but having a firearm for protection is recommended as well. Not talking about an arsenal, especially if you are not an experienced user.
Just up the dosage on the PMs and stuff you can eat yourself if it's all a false alarm (not likely). I like chili and it's good for up to 4 years in can! I also have extras on some stuff like OTC antibiotics and such. Keep some junk silver and silver eagles on hand. Have a bug out bag handy.
Then go out and have a good time. Constant reading on ZH will be a great asset since we get so much anecdotal reporting from the front lines. Keep one eye on "real life" and one eye on ZH!
as usual, RR has concise advice...:) I am planning/hedging against 3-4 endgames, and RR's and others' advice covers all of them. I would just add keeping current on obligations and keeping FICO elevated, just in case they can drag this on for years and years (and years), you might need it, but hopefully by now you see the dis-utility of debt, and never will need it again.
edit--also would like to add: food gardening, getting physically fit, having multiple "bug-out" destinations planned and learning skills that may be useful/tradable in a very different world.
:)
Fishfarms. Particularly, genetically-engineered salmon.
you forgot the </sarcasm off>, fixed it for ya...:)
I thought the sarcasm was rather self-evident, but thanks for the fix.
I am in an Australian bank and am thinking of ways to cut my risk. If SHTF in US /Europe then surely will flow through to funding costs and employment in Australia and thus property bubble burst. Which means grave danager for banks.
Im thinking that if there is a crash in the US markets there will be an immediate knock on in the Australian market that trashes stocks. That will be the time to get into some stocks, like gold and energy. Though I gather gold stocks will recover quickly as apparnetly the did pretty well during the great depression and 1974. So a sudden big dip in a knee jerk response to overseas events might represent an opportunity.
Your problem is different, you want to divest of USD. I guess you could have a foreign currency account ready to buy into something when an opportunity comes.
Then the reports I read here in Aussie is that the AUD is 27% over valued.
Well aren't you the "fortunate one!"
July 2007. Bear Sterns is reported to be in trouble, its cash flow unable to cover bets in the derivatives market. Shortly after, a MBS auction failed and the window into the world of falsely rated AAA MBS derivatives was opened. Property prices tumbled and the likes of Goldman Sachs (who made bets that the MBS derivatives that they bundled and sold to investors as AAA, would fail) made off like bandits, setting the whole thing in motion by opening the window in the first place.
The shit hit the fan on that day and here we are. This is a mountain of criminal activity and venting your disgust for the situation at the Earls is akin to stepping over the comatose victim of a mugging and commenting that the person/s responsible for this crime need help. Poor form all 'round, chaps.
You are of course right Al, but with the handle, and that message.. let the junking begin!
Someone should start the ball rolling by going to a walmart, purchasing about 23.00 worth of American made product ( toilet paper ) and demand they take silver for payment in full. Demand they take the only legal money under the Constitution and, that since the state conveyed no value in the transaction, there should be no tax applicable. Have local media on site. I doubt police will do anything as the situation would go viral and maybe wake "we the people" up to the fraud of 1913. The EE controls the people with FRN's.
Then again, walmart, the frontline in the takover of the US, just may just bow and accept the shiny piece of real money.
Just sayin.
Why risk $23? Use a Washington quarter and that amount of TP should last a few months (your mileage may vary).
I think WalMart would not be a good place to do this, though, with all the welfare mommas and other shiteaters that frequent a lot of those places (one near me actually smells bad when you walk in) would probably just bitch at you for holding up the line. Go for Target. Higher class clientele might even get the picture.
just do it.
What happens if the cashier takes the shiny piece of real money, puts it is his pocket, then puts 23 pieces of paper into the drawer?
As a retail Store owner I say come one come all bring your silver and your gold....I won't say no. And Fuck Walmart.
Good for you. And you can accept payment at face value for that 1964 Washington Quarter should you choose.
;) and, as Rocky has pointed out in the past,
You can take a 'tax loss' on the books for selling your goods for only one quarter (even though you were traded 1/4 ounce of silver).
as a retail shop owner, you are (unintentionally) gaining a 'tax credit' to accept US minted coins with a 'face value' that is lower than the 'intrinsic' metal value (basically, all of them!). You can work out the details of a 'win-win' price with your silver/gold bearing client as you wish!
note: I am NOT a tax advisor, so consult yours!
You mean like the average "tax advisor" who recommends stocks for the long haul?
The problem for Kahre came in that the IRS expected him to report his workers' earnings based on the coins' market value in the Federal Reserve System. Instead, the face value of the coins fell below the reporting threshold, so Kahre did not report.
http://www.lasvegastribune.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=1190:doing-business-the-american-way-&catid=50:unclassified-commentary&Itemid=115
I too have lots of toilet paper that I will happily exchange for your silver. I hope you don't mind that most of my TP was printed by the Federal Reserve.
I'm here in defence for the Police. You know people on this site always complain about the stormtrooper style of this Gov't and their agents but in this case you want the police to lock up every body. The Police acted properly, this is a civil case, there was NO criminal Offense committed. They did the right thing by deferring to the civil authority.Police enforce Criminal LAW, NOT Civil LAW. People should think before they start posting ignorant statements.
Amazing eh? They could have tasered
all nine children.
and shot the family dog.
I grew up in Simi; they were likely too busy fending off a brazen golf-course urination by a drunk Kiwanis clubber.
Typical response since nobody likes cops because they always catch you doing the wrong thing. And nobody likes to be told they are morons.
Ignorant statements. How about "historical statements. Dimwit.
What does this have to do with the price of eggs,and to return the favor,You're the Dimwit.
UnRealized, pardon me, but when did breaking and entering and trespass become a 'civil' matter?
I'm not a fan of SWAT-on-family crime either, but to suggest this is a strictly 'civil' case at this point is an error, IMHO.
Just sayin...
First of all Breaking and entering is a TV crime, No such thing,at the very most it might be Burglary but that is riding on thin ice.As far as trespassing, If you walk across some bodies lawn it is trespassing. The point is Police have discretion in petty crimes like this and I do not think any cop would make an arrest in this situation after hearing all the stories. Every body should be glad that the Police didn't lock any body up.Do you know you can be arrested for J-Walking in NYC,if Police didn't use their discretion the whole City would be in Jail. I know people are pissed at the whole situation but to drag the Police into a Bank Foreclosure case is getting a little hysterical. What about the kids,if the parents were arrested the kids would of been taken by Social Services and the house would of been taken as evidence until the case was settled,no body would of got it. So you would of been right where they are now. What would that accomplish. I am just saying that people are being blinded by rage.
Who do you think performs evictions, skippy?
You don't have to convince me that we live in a police state where any one of us could be carted off for some minor infraction. However, the selective application or enforcement of laws is always suspect. I'll bet you wouldn't feel so 'civil' if the Earls moved into your house univited.
How would you feel if YOU had purchased the house at the forclosure sale?
The fact that CCP bought the house is immaterial. It could have been you or me that paid CASH (a lot of CASH) for that house. Now the same system that sold you the house, gave you a deed and issued an eviction order is refusing to enforce the law? I'd be pissed if it were my house.
And if the Earls have an issue with it there is a place for that dispute - it's called District Court.
... when did breaking and entering and trespass become a 'civil' matter?
With a nod to Un's response, you can't be arrested for breaking and entering your own house. That is the entire point that this issue turns on. It is claimed that the bank had no legal standing to evict the Earls. If that is true, they were re-entering their own house. Then add to that all of the other issues UnRealized set forth above.
great post. there was no violence. however, eventually the police may need to remove this family by force under court order. I agree, the police are not agents of financial institutions until directly ordered to enforce the law with force by a judge (not a real estate company!).
Interesting that this post went up at 11:15 PM EST and that as of 7 AM EST the overwhelming weight of the first 150 comments is against going with the lurid incitation of the headline and the lame Press Release by the Investor Syndicate that sheds tears for babies and puppies and the American way.
I am, frankly, shocked that comments for the past 8 hours have been so overwhelmingly focused upon the big picture and rejecting the divide and conquer passions that would have us condemning one another rather than keeping our eye on the ball--the banksters.
Not only am I shocked, but greatly relieved. Divide and conquer the little guys is NOT the answer to this mess for ANYONE EXCEPT THE BANKSTERS.
I would hope that as the "daytimer" commentors flood in to register their votes, they will likewise consider the larger picture rather than surrendering to their darker petty passions. We will see.
Oh, Bob, Bob, Bob. There you go again. Being all reasonable and stuff.
I agree 100% with your comment and its sentiments. I feel that I must have missed the usual carping and unreasonable "hang 'em high" zealots. Where are they? Maybe that time that ZH was off line doing "maintenance" cleared out some of the dross.
Hey, if history is any prelude to the future, I'll jump the shark again at some point! But, yeah, this doesn't seem to be it.
The Banks had an elaborate scam going for decades, convincing the sheeple to pay them interest every month for 30 yrs until it all unraveled.
Charles Ponzi is proud.
i watched the Earls on Ratigan. Their premise is that they paid and the bank not only did not record their payment, but charged them more. It seems like that could have been brought out in the initial court hearings, but I know things can get confusing and not everything is evident at a court proceeding.
To me this mess started with the banks, no docs, CDO titling mistakes, even the economies present state rest's on their greed. My last house I bought in 2002, the bank told me I could afford twice the amount that I thought I could pay for and still live without eating cat food. I've been in and around business all my life, but others have not and it would be very easy to listen to them. So for my two cents you have to give people the benefit of the doubt. If after really looking at the paperwork no claim can be made against the bank and the people can't pay then foreclosure must happen. AS for a collapse of the banks or more harm to the economy, well that's why they call it investing. There are risks to earning money. i'm not a socialist, but thought from the beginning the banks should have been taken in and cleaned up. Our gov't made a conscious decision who should win(bondholders) and who should loses homeowners. We have Timmy, Paul, Ben and stupid DC to thank for this
No. This attitude is an invitation to continued ignorance and lawlessness. Both parties need to be held completely accountable because it's a CONTRACT.
If you don't understand it, then DON'T ****ing sign it. It's really that simple.
Both parties need to be held completely accountable ...
That is exactly the issue, and the only issue. We know who one of the parties is - the Earls. The problem is, we don't know who the other party is (the one who owns the mortgage, or the agent of same). Seems that you don't get that. Proceeding with holding accountable, without properly identifying who the other party is, is exactly an invitation to continued ignorance and lawlessness.
How is foreclosure by an entity that does not own the mortgage, and is not an agent of same, an appropriate exercise of accountability - particularly when we don't know what the owner of the mortgage would actually do to folks who are almost current again on their mortgage payments?
somewhat factual, but also a spin, RP. whoever 'actually does own the mortgage' clearly sold it long ago, with or without the appropriate paperwork. Lets say it was the original builder for simplicity. They did not just give the house away. The got paid by somebody. that somebody may lose out for not having the proper legal documentation; but that somebody should not lose out to the Earl family. The Earl family borrowed money to buy a house. they owe this money to somebody.
The simple question is: did the Earl family hold up their end of the bargain?
maybe, yes. maybe, no.
if, in fact, they have been living off of their home equity loan; I have my doubts.
Your simple question, upgraded to match the intent of my previous post:
The simple question is: would the actual owner of the mortgage think that the Earl family held up their end of the bargain by bringing their payments almost current? Had they not been foreclosed on, they would have payed off all of the missed payments within a month or so.
You keep mentioning the issue of them maybe living off of their home equity loan. How is that issue relevant in a situation where they missed payments because income from their business fell off - and they were staying current plus had almost made up all of the missed payments?
Yes, innocent until proven guilty....but annoying as hell to responsible people everywhere (like those with less than 5 kids who manage to pay their rent or mortgage on time without fail).
You think we can't add two and two and see that they kept having kids until the mortgage could no longer allow for it? Sorry, no sympathy for the quiverful and innumerate.
Oh, I owe them an apology since most of the kids aren't theirs (6/9) and are simply being used for the foster care money for the deadbeat, um sorry, 'stay at home' dad.
The Earls bought a house for virtually noting down. Then they pulled an extra $300K cash out. They ALWAYS had negative equity in this property. It was NEVER theirs. What part of this do you not understand? It doesn't matter how they were evicted. They were squatters from day one. I have no sympathy for them. They will be kicked out again. They don't give a shit about their kids or the people who legally bought the house at auction. They don't give a shit about anyone but themselves. Karma is a bitch, and they're ggonna find that out. I hope the cameras are rolling then so that every other turd who wants to game the system like this thinks twice.
You might want to read some of the comments above these to get an idea of what was involved in this "sale" to new owners. It was a crap shoot and they lost.
Again, whoever 'actually does own the mortgage' clearly sold it to someone long ago, with or without the appropriate paperwork. Lets say it was the original builder for simplicity. They did not just give the house away. The got paid by somebody. that somebody may lose out for not having the proper legal documentation; but that somebody should not lose out to the Earl family. The Earl family borrowed money to buy a house. they owe this money to somebody.
The simple question is: did the Earl family hold up their end of the bargain for the money that they borrowed?
maybe, yes. maybe, no.
if, in fact, they have been living off of their home equity loan; I have my doubts.
Double post. See my comment above in response to the first post.
The only relevant issue in this discussion is who has legal standing to foreclose. Whether the Earls had equity in their house or loved their kids is completely irrelevant to the discussion.
Tell me whether the bank who foreclosed had legal standing to do so. If you cannot, then all other criticisms of the Earls are irrelevant.
Riddle me this, genius:
If there was a problem with transfer of their mort, did they even have a right to be in that house in the first place?
Does the fact that they got months, plural, behind on their mortgage have relevance?
How about the $380k in equity they pulled out or their interest-only refi loan?
Plenty to discuss before the foreclosure.
You know, if I was the new owners and these vermin broke into something I had paid for and refused to move out, I'd torch it and see who has an easier time collecting on the insurance.
These people are why I fully support the use of the Nor-Plant Crossbow.
... broke into something I had paid for ...
If the new owners paid cash, I missed that part. If they obtained a mortgage, then you must admit that the question of who actually has a right to squat in the house is the only relevant issue here. If the bank had no legal standing to foreclose, then the Earls mortgage is actually still attached to the house.Your mortgage would be invalid.
Actually, this point is valid whether they paid cash or got a mortgage. The question for you to answer is, did they have legal standing to buy the house? If the bank who foreclosed did not have legal standing to foreclose, then you don't have legal standing to buy the house. Regardless of what kind of money you have tendered, the house would not be yours.
It's called their 20% down payment, shitwit. Here's a question you can answer:
If they say that they paid their mortgage and all, then why did they leave?
you're bringing it, snowball. +1.
No other question is relevant other than this one: did the bank own the mortgage or was it the agent of the owner of the mortgage? All other questions are irrelevant.
Snowball777 - if you know the story, then you know why they left. And you know that they left all of their personal belongings in the house. If you don't know the story, you shouldn't be commenting on it. Looking at the comments you've left above, it is obvious that you don't know the details of the story.
What is the percentage of loans that were securitized? If you paid off your house in the last 10 yrs...can you really be sure you own it? Did the bank actually have the power to declare you 'paid in full' and owner free and clear? This reminds me of a commodities customer problem with a comex gold order in the pit about 20 yrs ago.........customer screaming about an order not filled, a limit bid below the mkt. We call new york to ask for a fill.....Broker tells us he does Not deserve a fill. We have a long relationship with this broker and keep telling him our customer is pissed and knows better. Broker gets pissed at us for not telling the customer NO. After very heated debate we tell the broker that time & sales suggest the customer is right............................Broker responds with '.....why didn't you say so.......I'll have them change time and sales, screw the customer, no problem.'
Where is the 'end of the line', where is 'out of bounds'? We don't really have a clue about the title to our properties at this point and there is no Time & Sales to go to and discover the real situation.
The bank can sell the loan to whoever they want. I am not a party to that transaction as the homeowner. I have a legally signed and filed release of mortgage. I like my chances.
Now it's clear where you are coming from. You did the right thing, paid your mortgage, got your proper paperwork in order. That's admirable. Your anger now stems from the seeming fact that somebody is trying to get a "free house", did not play by the rules, and is apparently winning. I'd be with you were it not for the fact that it's not that simple. I have a paid off second mortgage that I still can't get a satisfied piece of wet ink paper for. Betcha when all is said and done they don't have it in hand. Now what? Do I sue them for return of all the monies paid? No, of course not. But I do need that document -- filed at my County courthouse if I want to sell my house. They screwed up! All the Earls have done is shine a very bright light on the process. Good people will be given their due because of the Earl's actions, despicable though they may seem.
Title insurers routinely sort out that kinda stuff before issuing a new policy.
They do until they stop doing it --- like now.
The apologia from Conejo starts out by telling us:
"On January 28, 2010 the property was sold thru a public auction at the trustee sale held at the Ventura County Court House."
I expected next sentence to read:
"The purchase price was $AMOUNT."
But the apologia does not give the price Conejo paid for the property and that price has not emerged in the commentary thus far, unless I missed it. I assume Conejo got the property for no more than fitty-cent on the $ relative to what the Earls owed on it.
Not mentioning the price is a factor here, posters.
Yes, I found that omission equally intriguing. Inquiring minds want to know why we're shedding crocodile tears for these likely vultures.
How much did they pay and how many parties placed bids?
The price Conejo paid appeared in the press when the original story broke. It was $697,000.
Looks like a good price to me.
I think a 28-year-old Abe Lincoln did the best job of anyone ever, in discussing the importance of the rule of law, and how the abandoment of it by the people who once agreed to it, is the greatest threat to our, or any, democratic nation.
http://showcase.netins.net/web/creative/lincoln/speeches/lyceum.htm
This speech, which he gave in response to rampant mob killings popular througout the whole of U.S. at the time (1838) is chillingly presecient for our times, IF you just replace in this speech the problem of his time, nob killings, with, instead, today's criminal businesses, corrupt banks, predatory and fraudulent financial companies, law firms, mortgage brokers etc, as the "mob"
Some quotes that stand out (emphases mine)
"....I hope I am over wary; but if I am not, there is, even now, something of ill-omen, amongst us. I mean the increasing disregard for law which pervades the country; the growing disposition to substitute the wild and furious passions, in lieu of the sober judgment of Courts; and the worse than savage mobs, for the executive ministers of justice. This disposition is awfully fearful in any community; and that it now exists in ours, though grating to our feelings to admit, it would be a violation of truth, and an insult to our intelligence, to deny..."
"....But all this even, is not the full extent of the evil. By such examples, by instances of the perpetrators of such acts going unpunished, the lawless in spirit, are encouraged to become lawless in practice; and having been used to no restraint, but dread of punishment, they thus become, absolutely unrestrained.--Having ever regarded Government as their deadliest bane, they make a jubilee of the suspension of its operations; and pray for nothing so much, as its total annihilation. While, on the other hand, good men, men who love tranquility, who desire to abide by the laws, and enjoy their benefits, who would gladly spill their blood in the defense of their country; seeing their property destroyed; their families insulted, and their lives endangered; their persons injured; and seeing nothing in prospect that forebodes a change for the better; become tired of, and disgusted with, a Government that offers them no protection; and are not much averse to a change in which they imagine they have nothing to lose. Thus, then, by the operation of this mobocractic spirit, which all must admit, is now abroad in the land, the strongest bulwark of any Government, and particularly of those constituted like ours, may effectually be broken down and destroyed--I mean the attachment of the People. Whenever this effect shall be produced among us; whenever the vicious portion of population shall be permitted to gather in bands of hundreds and thousands, and burn churches, ravage and rob provision-stores, throw printing presses into rivers, shoot editors, and hang and burn obnoxious persons at pleasure, and with impunity; depend on it, this Government cannot last.By such things, the feelings of the best citizens will become more or less alienated from it; and thus it will be left without friends, or with too few, and those few too weak, to make their friendship effectual. "
moneymutt, thank you for posting this speech & link. Quite refreshing in the sea of angry comments preceding it. I have forwarded it on to my friends & family to read. While Lincoln was concerned with the issues of his day, the principles laid out in his address are universal & apply to the current conditions in the US. Obviously, the problems that Andrew Jackson faced two centuries ago with the banks are the same problems we face once more only in a larger form & with modern technology.
Our problems are compounded as the banks have taken over the gov't in Washington in exchange for campaign contributions & other "favors." Now the gov't is colluding with the banks as enablers to perpetrate the fraudulent banking on the nation so the gov't can continue their spending programs. The wages of this sin are taxes, & with unbearable taxes will come the inevitable tax revolt.
The anger of the comments posted concerns this one family incident, but underlying it all is the larger big picture issue. The anger needs direction to the ballot box on November 2nd to weed out the politicians that are directly responsible for the fraud & have been enabling the banks to perpetrate it on the public. The choice is clear; the decision will be made by the citizens of the Republic. Choose wisely as your future & liberties are at stake for you, your children & the nation...
I agree 100% on your sentiments. But the proposed action of working within the system to effect change (voting) is dead. It's far too distorted and perverted now.
To vote is to consent to be governed by criminals.
so Lincoln was right...
thanks for the comments, but I'm not so sure the choice is clear...both Dems and Repubs have been total sellouts to banks, monied elites...Cantor, number #2 in house bragged in Feb that Wall Street had "buyers remorse" in regards to their political contributions to Dems because, I guess, Dems ever so slightly reformed their industry. TARP was initiated by Repub Pres/Treasury Sec and Dem congress and was continued by Dem Prez.
Even many anti-establishment candidates, such as Tea Partiers, do not appear to be largely or mainly opposed to big banks, Wall Street corruption, and even the son of Ron, Rand Paul seems more for special favors to big businesses than against their corruption. Many libertarians would like to see govt dismantled, not have it regulate businesses, not have it police effectively for the people. I don't see a lot choices.