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CME Issues Press Release, Confirms No Fat Finger: Will CNBC Issue Retraction For Repeated Factless Rumor Dissemination?
CME Group has issued a statement following rumors that erroneous or irregular trades by Citigroup Global Markets Inc may have been the cause for a more than 900 point drop in the Dow Jones Industrial Average during mid-day trading on Thursday:
“While our policy is not to comment on individual participation in our markets, in light of volatile market conditions, CME Group confirmed that activity by Citigroup Global Markets Inc. in CME Group stock index futures markets does not appear to be irregular or unusual in light of market activity today.”
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Goes hand in hand with what they said earlier..
10:13 (Dow Jones) CME Group dumps more cold water on the fat-finger rumor
mill, saying it didn't "appear" any of its clearing firms or customers
"experienced any technological failures or trading errors" during yesterday's
market gymnastics. The all-clear from the exchange operator comes after it
said late yesterday that Citigroup - the focus of intense speculation over an
alleged erroneous equity-index trade - had done nothing "irregular or
unusual". CME says its markets functioned "properly", with all clearing
members in good standing. CME down 1.5% at $317.77.
The giant elephant stares intently side to side.
Nervous glances and feigned comfort.
This is how the whole world feels today.
What elephant? I don't see any elephant. Everything is just fine.
Gossiping bitches. All of them - even mr. liesman and ms. kudlow.
Checked CNBS at lunch for a laugh. They never disappoint! Liesman was trying to give teh all clear on BAC's Greek debt holdings. Full-on fularious.
Man, there is no way to keep up with this ping-pong action... it's really is trading at light-speed.
Bloomy now have "cyber attack" angle running.
How hard can it be, just to say someone(s) liquidating.
Primary dealers and broker dealers can theoretically cause this kind of 30 minute action if market weighted on the short side and their inventories did not have enough shares to borrow. Primaries and broker-dealers can legally naked short the market for the period of up to 1 week. Now this wouldn't be a problem if short momentum was weak, but a glitch in primary dealers and/or broker dealers could issue amount of stock that surpasses the float by X times and crash given stocks like P&G, Accenture and even whole indexes without any problems. And the bounce back can be achieved if X% of the issued naked shorts are canceled by broker-dealers or primary dealers. The rule is known as "The Maddoff Exemption" and it is perfectly legal. Just ask BS shareholders and Dendreon shareholders. Again theoretically this could have been the cause of the 30 minute action yesterday given that we rule out HTFs Algos and Phat Phinger scenario.
Man, there is no way to keep up with this ping-pong action... it's really is trading at light-speed.
So why did they reverse the trades then? Someone explain? I know they slowed it down, and that caused a liquidity problem, but don't traders know that's how it works ahead of time?
did they say they will reverse the future trade?
I didn't mean that. I meant that they know it slows down into 'emergency mode.' This logically should indicate that the problems they experienced might happen, and thus you should plan for this accordingly. And so, if you got screwed, it's your problem. no trade reversal should be necessary.
off topic, but +1 for pirates!
http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=2998215
YOu would have to be insane to be trading in this right now.
ALGO MAN 2:
http://williambanzai7.blogspot.com/2010/05/algo-man-2.html
Seriously? More blogspam? Can't you just type out a brief synopsis of your own opinion rather than wasting more bandwidth on free advertising? Want to know who keeps marking your posts as junk? Me... that's who.
I think it's funny shit, keep them coming I say (and no dude, I didn't junk you, just saying.....)
Tnx Steve. You can count on me.
FT-
Sorry dude, based on traffic flows, you are in the minority. Keep junk marking. It's nice to know your out there.
For the record, I don't paste images into these threads because that would be hogging bandwith.
Peace
double post... sorry mods
Mass market destruction due to the HFT. Algo trading. they don't want to tell the truth.
They think they can control the markets, but once it starts, it gets this tailspin and takes on a different life. we used to throw a rock when we hate someone, now we got nuclear weapon. this computer algo trading shit will wipe out everything.
http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41hqNELABPL._SL500_AA300_.jpg
futureworld
I agree. As someone wrote in the comments under another article Accenture and some other stock fell to 0.001$, the same amount an algo uses to frontrun orders. Coincidence; there are no coincidences.
My personal view is that we got a glipse of the real value of various equities for a moment there and Ass-Enter is a zero. Fine by me, I never liked those rotten scheming scumbags anyways.
Well, I think CNBC might have been somehow right for a change, of cause their interpretation was somewhat skewed. One of the arb funds or large prop desk clients decided to ether hedge some positions, robots has sniffed the trade and the rest is history. Now any official fat finger investigation would reveal the role of HAL 9000, which in turn is absolutely "unacceptable" to "some".
What's going on with silver?
Might be a short squeeze? Maybe JPM needs to have some actual physical silver to back up their massive fraudulent paper positions?
Hedge fund forced to cover 10 MM ounce short position in silver due to market losses elsewhere.
There WAS a fat finger, but it occurred once the DOW was already down 1,000+... and the finger belongs to the PPT. It's probably the middle finger, too...
CME had to come out and say "everything normal." As Henry Kissinger famously said, "it has the added value of being true." There is nothing "erroneous" in having Accenture trading at 10 cents. This is how "markets work." I didn't say it was a GOOD market, but hey, neither is my girl friend and i as much as I probably should "do something" she's still sleeping soundly in my bed.
+10000
I have a theory on all this. Everyone knows that there are large ( Trillions) pools of Dollars in the hands of the Chinese, middle eastern countries etc etc. Everyone also knows that not all these players have a deep affection for the US. Therefore , if you were in the US govt, would you not want to have some "meta-control" over the markets - so the evil ones cant mess with our markets? Of course . Problem is - there is no way to distinguish trades from the little league coach in De Moine from foreign traders. Too bad.
You can however justify the total control and computerized interference oin the markets thus: For someone who wants to accumulate shares for investment purposes - there is no problem. But if you try to Trade - thats a different story - you will be playing the Oakland raiders in your t-shirt and flipflops - you dont stand a chance - especially if you are trying to short things.
Unless you are super computer and have direct access to the exchange you would be a stupid robot for stepping in here.
http://www.graphpaper.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/tron_user.jpg
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Yesterday, was bring your kid with you to work day...
DENNIS!!!!!
I have a theory on all this. Everyone knows that there are large ( Trillions) pools of Dollars in the hands of the Chinese, middle eastern countries etc etc. Everyone also knows that not all these players have a deep affection for the US. Therefore , if you were in the US govt, would you not want to have some "meta-control" over the markets - so the evil ones cant mess with our markets? Of course . Problem is - there is no way to distinguish trades from the little league coach in De Moine from foreign traders. Too bad.
You can however justify the total control and computerized interference oin the markets thus: For someone who wants to accumulate shares for investment purposes - there is no problem. But if you try to Trade - thats a different story - you will be playing the Oakland raiders in your t-shirt and flipflops - you dont stand a chance - especially if you are trying to short things.
no
a definite no no ... maybe KSA, but the rest definitely not ...
I m still getting over the 100-1 AAPL split rumor.
CNBC "retraction" here
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Computers-Not-Human-Error-cnbc-1614949039....
That is not a retraction. That is waffling. Talk about playing both sides...
Where's there smoke there's fire. If this was a terrorist attack it started from the inside. CHARGE GOLDMAN THE FIRM IMMEDIATELY. Clear the trade and FIND OUT WHO MADE THE MONEY. The only purpose behind "cancelling trades" is to obfuscate the "who-dunn-it."
Why would you expect a CNBC retraction? I mean we're talking the network of James Cramer, Becky Quick and Erin.
The more important question is this: Will Zero Hedge implement a moratorium on all things CNBC?
We need CNBS for comic relief.
My take is that the equity desks which reside inside the big banks caused this to scare the senate into rejecting the break-the-big-banks proposal. They managed to do just that. even Sanders withdrew his unquestioned support for the proposal. This is terrorism pure and simple.
YES!
And when it happens again, they will drive it to zero just for the helluvit.
Agreed. Financial terrorism.
meanwhile every MSM outlet has pushed that rumor so hard that its become fact.
"layers and layers of fact checkers" my ass.
CNBC pulled the fat finger right out of their own ass. This is paniced bullshit reporting at its best.
Did you also notice how silver just popped $1 within 20 minutes. Rumours now out that a hedge fund was forced to cover a 10 million ounce short position. I suppose CNBC will tell you that was a fat finger too.
Glad you brought this up. CNBC blasted Citi all afternoon with "unconfirmed reports".
WTF? They just make stuff up.
Oops - wrong thread. Sorry.
A 'metric fuckton', I like that.
Nice explanation of what happened yesterday, HFT and computer algos gone crazy.
http://rajivsethi.blogspot.com/2010/05/algorithmic-trading-and-price.html
ZH been jammed all morning for me - I need a colo arrangement or CNBC needs to provide a bigger pipe to ZH, for obvious reasons (ahem-cough).
I have a theory -- "fat fingers" = mob speak!!!
It seems our ‘fat fingered’ friends support Goldman's legal strife and are completely against breaking up of large banks.
And here's to the knee Jerks at CNBC:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NxLtVG9_eg
CNBC is not a reputable news source, plain and simple. It would surprise the hell out of me if they apologized, as doing so is an admission of irresponsible behaviour.
Who were these "sources"?
Who was it that typed in the wrong keyboard character?
CNBC should explain. Otherwise, they remain at the top of the bullshit heap of MSM news organizations by making stuff up.
sheesh, it was just a fingerella moment†
"Thank you very much Mr. Robot for doing the job nobody wants to."
"The problem's plain to see; too much technology
Machines to save our lives; Machines dehumanize"
Domo arigato Mr. Roboto
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anNCkOKogKs
dup
You still think CNBC is a 'news' station??
Hey, I think they just issued their retraction:
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Computers-Not-Human-Error-cnbc-1614949039....
When more than one exchange can trade a stock without a Central Clearing house, this is what happens. What do you expect? Lollipops?
I always keep an APPL bid active at 1.01.
Juveniles....geez.
Like I said:
Fat Finger BullcrapTyler, let me know if you'd like to do some national radio....
They are saying that computerized sell programs cut in triggered by global events. If thats the case, then who pushed the -1,000 point plunge back up to the -346. I mean if there was that many sells, usually people get out and hold for the next day especially if it's toward the end of the day and this bloody. But if it was sell programs, then why was stock being sold far below or even at pennies on the dollar. Then there is the reason of front running going on (which does happen) but it happens everyday even on bad days like yesterday. That wouldn't have made the front running algos push stock down to pennies or from 60 dollars to 32 in seconds. Then there was the idea that the banks did this on purpose to scare the lawmakers into not pushing that reform package. But if that is the case they could have used this power to help their other cohorts in crime who went down in making money and keeping the wolfs at bay by controlling the market by the touch of a button.
I'm starting to believe that is could be what has been rumored from the beginning of this week, and that is one or more hedge funds of some sort had to be unwinded and liquidated for some reason. They may be trying to keep this information out of the MSM so not to spook the markets. Remember when hedge funds where going under and people where essentially doing a run on them, they don't want that panick again. Also do you remember when a one or two Money Markets broke the buck (these are supposed to be safe). The one congressman on CSpan was told by Paulson that during the Money Market fiasco, the Fed noticed that close to 783 billion dollars have left these instruments and this was in the morning. And if this would have continued the US would have been insolvent by the end of the day (just google that). They are wanting to hide any sense of panic or destruction to our safe financial instruments.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/203488-rumors-of-hedge-fund-liquidation?source=article_sb_popular
This was posted on May 1st - a week before the crash.
'11,250 / 300 is an area of significant resistance and if this level can’t be breached it should signal the end of the March 2009 bear market rally - the weekly DOW chart shows an expanding wedge indicating a significant move is probable - this remains an overbought bear market rally and the uptrend could falter at any time - the VIX index continues to give bullish warnings which is bearish for equities - long term charts of key equity indexes continue to give bearish warnings and the March 2009 lows will be breached in my opinion - USD Index bullish warnings since 2009 on the weekly and monthly chart have not changed and further USD strength and thus EURO weakness is still expected '
http://www.zerohedge.com/forum/latest-market-outlook-0
http://stockmarket618.wordpress.com