CNBC Guest Says Absent Plunge Protection Team Stepping In, Market Would Fall; Wien, Kernan Disgusted

Tyler Durden's picture

A highly amusing exchange occurred earlier on CNBC when guest Damon Vickers of Nine Points Capital had an unexpected moment of truthiness and turned some heads when he said that "unless the plunge protection team comes in over the next couple of days, the markets are looking very dicey here." When a disgusted Joe Kernan asks if Vickers was making a joke about the PPT, the response is "absolutely not - it's common knowledge that the government steps in and does things to step on the gas and buy stock here and there." To which Byron Wien has a strong retort: "I don't believe it." All that and much more in the clip below. In the meantime, the market is sure having a field day with stocks as once again bad news are discarded and the smallest glimmer of positivity serves as a springboard for yet another ramping short covering spree.

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homersimpson's picture

Is someone out there who manages billions really dumb enough to believe that a PPT does not exist? Unbelievable.

mikla's picture


He probably attended an Ivy League.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Moral cowards always have the ability to ignore anything that would force them to grow some balls. Let's start calling this what it really is folks. We dance around the politically incorrect subject all the time because we're afraid of being called moral cowards ourselves.

Either we stand up to this shit or we shuffle away while making excuses. The time is here. Where do you stand? Do we meet every moral coward with a challenge or do we sugar coat it in order to have "civil discourse". Of course, this means we must also grow some balls.

Am I asking too much?

B9K9's picture

CD, it's done. Imagine a wealthy single-parent who has 4th stage cancer. There are charlatans promoting miracle additives, and other hustlers trying to divert attention while looting the property.

Amongst the din, there might perhaps be a few responsible individuals who are beginning to make preparations for the children: food, shelter, security, education, health, etc. (Some might even be attempting to manage the estate in an orderly process, but the looming chaos will overwhelm their efforts.)

The time for talk is over - the astute realize it's time to begin dealing with what is to come. Cut the deficit, impose austerity & default/deny/delay both hard/sort liabilities (debt, SS, Medi, etc), the comes apart; implement QE X.0, and the end comes anyway, just in a different form.

The social compact is broken - not many people recognize this, but what it means is that it's all over. Best to begin preparing.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

"The social compact is broken - not many people recognize this, but what it means is that it's all over. Best to begin preparing."

And as long as we enable the denial, the denial will continue. I've already taken care of all I can within my family. And for the longest time I tried to keep peace by not pushing reality upon anyone in my family.

But over the past 4 months, I've been doing precisely that. I'm not deliberately hurting feelings but rather just speaking bluntly. A family member wanted to borrow money, I said no and told her I was getting ready for the collapse and can't spare what won't be paid back. That shocked a number of people. Another wanted me to spend some money with other family members to send our mother on an extended vacation. I gave the same answer. Shocked some more. And mom was applauding me. Another wanted investment advice and I told him to get out of the market because it's rigged. That pissed him off but at least he had the balls to ask more questions before pulling the covers over his head and cutting off contact with me.

I'm not trying to hurt anyone be neither am I going to avoid hurting others simply because I'm speaking truth. I will no longer enable others to live peacefully in denial by my silence. That doesn't mean I will go out of my way to speak truth. But neither does it mean I will avoid speaking truth. I will no longer hold my tongue because others are covering their eyes. And I see a lot of it here on ZH. People talk the talk but don't walk the walk.

B9K9's picture

I applaud your efforts; however, mine are directed more towards actionable results. I no longer waste my time dropping hints, discussing issues, and/or responding to questions/inquiries (other than bland, "Yes, it does seem rather bad, doesn't it? types of replies).

Instead, I've gone back to my original roots in scale organization. Denninger is right - we're gonna have 50m+ in relief camps. And no, the "government" will barely be involved. What will the (lack of) organization look like? How will the collection, storage & delivery of basic food staples be managed? Who will provide supplemental K-12 education? (Ex: Hawaii was on a 4-day school week all last year.) What about security?

I'm preparing for a non-Mad Max world somewhat akin to the 30s where we still had functioning local communities. I'm positioning myself to be a central cog in this type of environment and am willing to lend my organizational skills to replicate these networks in other regions.

If we do have Mad Max, then it will all be for naught. You have to make estimates for probabilities - I can only assume the American spirit is still alive in the citizen individuals who have been (temporarily) defeated by the enemy.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

We are on the same page, just different paragraphs. "We" need both of our efforts.

"I can only assume the American spirit is still alive in the citizen individuals who have been (temporarily) defeated by the enemy."

From my point of view, I believe this may be a shaky assumption because it supposes that after the initial shock, many will rediscover this spirit. Sure, there will be the usual 5 or 10% who will immediately land on their feet. But the vast majority of American citizens worship the grocery store because that's where their food comes from. Or they worship their kitchen faucet because that's where their water comes from. And so on. When these are removed or diminished, the social economic system will fall into a state of shock and this will lead to terrible hardship.

We can't look to isolated economic or environmental disasters (hurricane, tornado, flood etc) as examples of how people will act because there is always one presumption, that outside the affected area, things are "normal" and this will not be the case in a total collapse. So my prescription is to work locally on building community by example. That's all I can do for now so that's what I'm trying to do. My efforts can be scaled up and can also work under a non Mad Max as well as a Mad Max situation.

At least I hope so. No one will ever know for sure until the moment arrives. Anyway, thank you for putting your back where your mouth is.

LeBalance's picture

There is a sweet grand tapestry filled with as many universes as people, exactly so.  And each universe (person) has a direction that they wish to go.  It is definitely not the one you would choose in many cases.  As a result we have "emotions" over the obviousness that things are not as we would like.  This emotion is an issue for the one having the emotion.  They are the one who does not allow the tapestry to be as it is.  They wish the tapestry were as they would weave it.  Well, there is a thread dedicated to you in the tapestry.  It is your sacred journey thread.  But to say that the tapestry must contain completely other threads than it has....Well, it is just you having emotion (attachment to non-reality) and that is detrimental to yourself.

So in the spirit of self care, be kind to your self and realise that the tapestry is going where it needs to go and that your thread (the only one you can play) is also.

This is not saying, "Don't act."  It is saying act within your self, if others come to speak to you or are interesting in your way then share a small amount.

I apologize for my imprecise thoughts.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture


I'm not talking about seeking people out and trying to change their views. If you read my post above again, you will find I talked about people seeking me out. In each case they were asking something of me and in each case they wanted me to help them remain in the delusion they maintained.

Only then do I refuse to do so. This is not about me pushing my will and views upon others without their consent. I'm talking about not remaining silent when approached. No where did I say I'm seeking out people to pummel with my opinions.

Also, please see my post below directed towards "arnoldsimage".

Cathartes Aura's picture

The universe is uncaused, like a net of jewels in which each is only the reflection of all the others in a fantastic interrelated harmony without end.

~ Ramesh Balsekar

great truth in your post LeBalance, I heard you.

WaterWings's picture

But neither does it mean I will avoid speaking truth.

Indeed this is when fear becomes truly debilitating in my view. I have succumbed to this somewhat after hours of conversation with various friends and family. They have become comfortable because their knee-jerk reactions tend toward the, "Well what do you expect me to do!", instead of attempting to reason and ponder possible outcomes, has quieted me. "Oh you are still worrying about all that? There's nothing you can do about it, so move on." You can always explain it much better than I can, CD, but the resistance and negativity from them, shooting the messenger (me), is too overwhelming. A twisted side in me wants to proclaim, "I told you so!" but that will only be sorrowful. I can only hope something will click inside them before it's too late to even acquire life-saving supplies or at least invest their cash into something that is useful and tangible.

Bravo! for your strength, CD. It is not wasted on us here.

B9K9's picture

Three suggestions for you & CogDis:

  • Look into joining your local district/city/county FEMA organization. Don't laugh, no FEMA won't be there to help when the SHTF, but existing networks of volunteers are already staffed. These are your neighbors who already have an orientation towards organization & action.
  • Get involved with a charitable organization(s) (be it faith-based or secular) that is already involved in food collection/distribution. Again, right now they get their funds from HUD and other gov't support programs, but the important point is that  volunteers are already self-selected for organization & action. These are the people you want to know.
  • Look into the local ward/precinct political organization of your respective district/city/county. Again, when the SHTF, there won't really be much of an effective political network (or it won't have much of an impact), but the contacts you make will put you in the orbit of people who gravitate towards organization & action.

Here's an easy way to diagram our future needs & opportunities. Simply draw a line down a piece of paper and label the left column "present" and the right column "future". Now, go down the present column and write down everything you observe in our current society: central, prohibition(s) [drugs, etc], police, fire, health care, welfare, food, education, elderly support, etc.

Next, go down the right column and write down what you think will act as suitable substitutes. You might be surprised how similar your list will look to the laws & social organization of pre-WWII America. This is where we are headed: back to local communities with minimal central authority and a much more relaxed approach to civil liberties (it doesn't matter if it's due to either lack of police funding or true laissez faire attitudes).

The time for talk is over.

Marla And Me's picture

B9K9 and CogDis,

I thought you two would appreciate this topic

Notice that the last act before one frees him/herself is the "extinction burst".  It doesn't bode well for our collective when the curtain is lifted and the true nature of this monstrosity is in plain view for all to see.  Be well.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Thank you. I have a special category in my Internet browser favorites for those "must visit daily sites" that I rarely add to for fear it would quickly grow to unmanageable size.

I just added this web site.

WaterWings's picture

Ah, very salient points! Very actionable!

Although, I don't want to share my canned food. ;-)

arnoldsimage's picture

i can relate cd. now... when my neighbors see me walking towards their house, they quickly go back in and close the door. they view me as the harbinger of bad news.

Cognitive Dissonance's picture

I've experienced the same thing. You simply cannot instill moral courage where it doesn't exisit. It must be found or created by those who lack it.

What will be even more difficult for you and I and many others will be when they come to our house asking for help. The initial tendency will be to lash out in anger and frustration. But you and I will make compatriots for life and develop fierce loyalty in them if we do just the opposite and help them when we could kick them instead.

This is why I constantly work on myself. Because there will come a time when I will need to draw upon all my strength and courage precisely when I will want to surrender to the insanity. You and I and many others will be building a new world soon. We must find the courage to lead by example rather than by word.

glenlloyd's picture

ditto, it's gotten to the point that I just don't say anything anymore.

I figure they'll eventually realize that the future doesn't look so good.

mediahuset's picture

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Ripped Chunk's picture

Byron has a great hair stylist.

septicshock's picture


was it just me or did he call ZH "squirrly and crazy?"

Snidley Whipsnae's picture

The bobble heads on tv have to attempt to discredit anyone that dares speak truth... It probably isn't spelled out in their job description but they know what they must do to stay employed...

NOTW777's picture

i'm sure lying with a smile is required

docj's picture

Oh, he knows.  Of course he knows.

But the first rule of PPT is you don't talk about PPT, right?

WaterWings's picture


An individual with integrity assumes, to his disadvantage, that other individuals will acknowledge the most obvious of circumstances. Meaningful exchange is halted, and clueless sheeple get more confoozled; cheering for those that tell them what they want to hear.

We're headed for a major crash; those on the outside can only speculate when. There may be more important events on the horizon anyway: war, mass evacuations/dislocation, "terrorist" attacks.

I doubt we'll see gold actually exchanged at $5,000 and/or the DJIA below 5,000 - that could only happen in a vacuum in my view - more disruptive events will take center stage.

-1Delta's picture

exactly or the squid will come after you

ejmoosa's picture

Or you may just think that you are smarther than everyone else, and that is why the markets rise when you say buy....


To admit other powers are involved is to admit that you might just not be as smart as you hoped you would be.  Who wants to admit that?

tj3's picture

No, he's smart enough to know his "office." You know, like the care ew all take in our internet posts and the ability we have to manage what personal information is known to others. Yeah, he's dumb.

Cursive's picture

Kernan and MCC were laughing about how ineffective the PPT was in 2008.  Why is this argument ever given any credence?  It is an open policy of the FOMC to intervene in the U.S. bond market.  Furthermore, it has long been an open policy of the BOJ that it will buy equities.  How'd that work out for the BOJ and Nikkei index?  I can't be that hard for an "educated" person to believe these "conspiracy theories".

homersimpson's picture

(comment removed by poster)

doublethink's picture


The dude needs to discover the inter tubes.


Market Manipulation Live (translated by Mole)



Calculated_Risk's picture
1st RULE: You do not talk about PPT.

2nd RULE: You DO NOT talk about PPT.

Cleanclog's picture

He must have a PhD from a "decent" university, thus is qualified to toss fire retardant on the concept of PPT, where of course our musings are invalid.

Rainman's picture

Never ever will a mainstream financial news network admit to the market's invisible hand. PPT's primary mission is sustaining the morphine drip for the pension funds and insurance companies. These are the main beneficiaries of the prop and they will be defended by any subversive means....or it's game over.

CNBS spends all day hashing and rehashing theories and trends. How many viewers would stick around to listen to their bullshit if they knew for sure the fix was on ???

It's not like these talking heads can migrate their talents to the Home Shopping Network.

the not so mighty maximiza's picture

My GOD!  , the truth is spoken on CNBC,  we can't have that,  you will never see him as a guest again.

Problem Is's picture

"My GOD!  , the truth is spoken on CNBC..."

And the truth was promptly ridiculed and rejected as the Cue Ball smiled at the abusurdities of his own fabrications...

Or the Cue Ball was smiling and thinking...
"IF ONLY I STILL HAD HAIR, I could be boning this brunette..."

still kicking's picture

He was probably drug out into the alley and shot after that segment.

Rogerwilco's picture

Well, one of their stated primary goals is "price stability". Somebody has to be the perfect citizen in this world of ignorant bloggers and malcontents. Oh and BTW, the chocolate ration has been increased by 25% -- rejoice comrades, rejoice!

Teaser's picture

So, this is one those "Squirrily crazy websites"?

Pladizow's picture

You down with PPT? - Yeah you know me.

tj3's picture

hey, don't bogart that PPT man.

TuesdayBen's picture

Thanks for sticking that song in my head all day

citizens_of_the_world's picture

Clicking on the video didn't work for me, but this link works:

Cursive's picture

Probably the funniest thing is the guy referred to in-studio guest Byron Wein as Wilber Ross.  All Ross could do was make a comment about bald guys.  They do seem like brothers or cousins.

primefool's picture

No one knows anything. Information is garbled. Fraud and mis-information is the norm.

So - it boils down to belief. Do you believe? Byron does'nt.

anony's picture

I don't imagine any wealthy investor is going to say anything, Especially, what he believes that does not support his book, the one he owns, the one he plans on dumping, the one he's short and the one he plans on buying.

They haven't "any obligation to tell us truth", and that comes straight from the Talmud.