Coming To America: The Greek Sovereign Debt Crisis

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Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:22 | 225887 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

When can we start openly burning Keynesian books?

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:29 | 225909 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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Do it in front of an economics "Professor".  The looks on their faces are priceless!

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 01:08 | 226281 DoChenRollingBearing
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Just say "Reinhart and Rogoff" to those arrogant Professor Schmucks of economics.  Like waving a silver cross at the vampires.

I really do not understand why .gov and even the financial PTB are not alarmed by our grave situation.  Nor is anyone among TPTB ready to cut spending!  That would be the key to our revival, CHOP spending and chop it hard.

Such a great country we have/had.  Why can't our leaders do what is required before the wheels come off, and we have our train wreck?

Maybe I'll go back to screaming that we should all buy gold again, pity that some of my fellow gold guys are layin' low lately.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 03:53 | 226386 Gold...Bitches
Gold...Bitches's picture

not me.  i hope they do flow into the dollar and gold goes down in the reflexive trade.  lets me buy more for cheaper.  gold is going higher, much higher, by the end of this game

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 11:50 | 226671 Master Bates
Master Bates's picture

That's what happens when you know you bought an asset at the top (IE fucked up) and were the most vocal and loudest about it.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:46 | 225947 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Probably about the same time we are burning FEDRES bills to keep warm.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 21:57 | 226053 A Broken Bear
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Quality...You see, its comments like these (plus the dam good reading ZH offers) that made me join the ZH community.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 00:43 | 226252 jeff montanye
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keynesian in the article above should be in quotes.  the deficit spending, in boom times and bust, that characterizes much of western society in the last forty years and certainly the siphoning of wealth from the bottom to the top of society via the state are nothing like what keynes advocated.  he was a cogent and prescient geopolitical observer (who predicted, in published detail, how the armistice that ended ww1 would bankrupt germany via hyperinflation and produce a greater war when a new generation of soldiers could be grown), wrote the most important book on economics in the last century (the general theory of employment, interest and money) and was an extremely astute and profitable investor for himself and his alma mater.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:27 | 225901 ghostfaceinvestah
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Let's break this down to its most basic level - the pure fiat currency system is failing, and will fail completely soon.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 21:07 | 225982 VegasBD
VegasBD's picture

We are most deffinately living in intersting times.

Id like to say that Im a patriot and will help take this country back from the govt and rebuild from the rubble...but honestly ill be way deep in Mexico drinkin margaritas. Paying for them in silver probably. =)

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 01:10 | 226285 DoChenRollingBearing
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Or Peru for me...

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:27 | 225902 RobotTrader
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Meanwhile, Riverboaters are starting to "front run" a positive resolution to this mess by buying junker stocks like this:



Wed, 02/10/2010 - 22:24 | 226086 hidingfromhelis
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The decimal point on the share price is a couple/few places too far right.  But then again, those penny stocks are vulnerable to pump & dump scenarios.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 22:35 | 226094 bulldung
bulldung's picture

Really,Why? Technicals or does AIG benefit from Greecey bailot?

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 02:37 | 226341 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I loaded up with all I could buy when it crossed the moving avg. Classic buy signal.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:28 | 225903 dark pools of soros
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"even sacrifice the population"   9/11 only saved the dollar a decade eh?

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 21:05 | 225975 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Truthers in this forum. who'da thunk it?

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 21:36 | 226020 Dark Helmet
Dark Helmet's picture

When the Soviet American empire collapses, it will be common knowledge that 9/11 was either ignored and allowed to happen or there was actually some involvement at some level. Lots of stuff became common knowledge when the USSR collapsed.

So clap comrade! Keep clapping for Premier Bush... err... Obama of the Republicrat Party!


Wed, 02/10/2010 - 22:14 | 226066 andy55
andy55's picture

As a former US navy submarine LT with top secret/SCI clearance that served from 99 to 04 on a 688i in the Persian Gulf, I've always been skeptical of 9/11 being an inside job on the basis that the government is basically inept and inefficient at everything.  I generally regarded it as impossible for the government to plan an operation like that with that many moving parts in complete secrecy.

That said, someone linked to the 'second edition' of "Loose Change" the other day and I thought I'd give it another try.  I was never that moved by the original version, but I have to admit that the second edition is significantly more convincing, both in terms of organization and evidence.  Granted, there's circumstantial evidence all over the place, but then again there's a enough evidence to paint a picture that stands very well on its own (which I did not feel after seeing the original cut).

For those interested in the 'second edition':

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 23:12 | 226136 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

I've said before, I don't buy all truther stuff, but there is very little to convince me that it's definitively wrong, and lots of stuff that fits insider story more than MSM story..

also on the incompetence seems there are two tracks, but we have seen in history very involved shadow stuff going on that only later got exposed only by some accident of some such...I believe it was a crashed helicopter and some guy singing like a bird at that point that lead to the whole  exposure of the Iran/Contra arms to terrorist, drugs flown into Homestead AFB and sold in domestically in US by CIA contractors...eventually linking to the sudden explosion of crack epidemic...these are all facts in multiple court case sworn testimony, Reagan even admitted to the facts of selling arms for hostages but denied/ compartmentalized this as not being what it was. So what if the helicopter had not crashed, would Oli North be a general by now? Think how many people were involved in this massive conspiracy, people negotiating arms deal, people funding contras, people bringing drugs into use, people negotiating have many people in many people countries doing this, and we only found out when helicopter crashed.

And notice how something really outrageous and controversial as independent companies that work for our govt smuggling drugs into a US AFB, arms for hostage, negotiating with terrorists not even hardly in our political memory, you don't hear people constantly beating on Reagan admin about this stain on their historic record etc...its because MSM does not bang on it.

Also, I think we have plenty of examples in ordinary life of many many people knowing something and it still not being in MSM, once again, because of a crash....Tiger Woods sex life. If it is so damn hard to keep a secret in the Internet age, how is it that perhaps 1000s of people knew definitively TW was a major many mistresses, many golfers on the tour, his friends, the friends and family of his mistresses, many media types, many random people that must have seen something etc...shoot, he wasn't even trying to hide things much, leaving a crumb  trail of texts etc..So what if stakes are higher, what if people doing the hiding are richer, more powerful than many people could know something and it still no be known to general population of US. And even when outrageous stuff get exposed and no one can refute credible sources, if they are not picked up by MSM, its like no one exposed anything.

See Sibel Edmonds...whose biggest coverage in media so far is an article in Hustler....even tho no one can credibly refute her sworn testimony.

Did you know this fact, the Bush family was close friends with the family of Reagan's attempted assassin, Hinckley? Did you know W's brother Neil was scheduled to have dine with a Hinckley's brother in Denver day of attempted assassination. This is all facts report in MSM media. May just be bizarre coincident but if Reagan dies, Bush is president, so why is this story common knowledge among US one refuted facts of story...story just died of inattention....again, open secrets... 

Finally this "govt is so incompetent" is ALWAYS the excuse they use when they trash something...we could never have foreseen a hurricane hitting NOLA, never foreseen  terrorist in planes, never foreseen financial crash... yada yada...the schtick is: look stupid, have regular govt do poorly, while you, shadow elite people, make out like bandits due to your access, insider info, ability to pull a few levers and easily manipulate just about anything...

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 00:52 | 226266 jeff montanye
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so true.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 01:17 | 226293 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Well, guys, I am with Andy55 on this one, at least the bit about government incompetence and inability to keep secrets.

I had Top Secret / TK clearance at one of the alphabet soups.

Something like "the government / Bush / whatever did it" would be so big with so many in the know that it is clear to me to be highly unlikely.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 08:57 | 226463 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Not refuting your experience, but I tend believe that there are always two version of those "alphabet soups" - one that generally is there as an arm of "actual" government (usually very large, unwieldy and bureaucratic - such that incompetence and inefficacy is allow to run writ large) and another which is an arm of a much smaller and much more constant group of people - Kissengers and the like. The latter is very well connected and very well protected; when anyone in that group looks like stepping out of line its curtains! So not so surprising that knowledge rarely comes out and when it does is immediately spun (think Iraq war Niger documents) and forgotten about.

The other thing I don't understand about your line of reasoning is that apparently for the .gov to carry out this operation would involve an enormous number of people but for a bunch of long bearded freaks in a global complete backwater with nary semblance of modern infrastructure its totally doable. Holding both ideas in your head as true seems to me like lunacy.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 11:07 | 226600 velobabe
velobabe's picture

your heavy, good thing your man's best friend. we all know pure white woman don't enjoy sex. TW, god i miss you babe.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 23:56 | 226168 Dark Helmet
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I lean toward what in the "truther" community is called "LIHOP" which stands for "Let It Happen On Purpose." I think there were warnings, and sometimes they were missed out of incompetence. However, sometimes they were also missed because I strongly suspect some people thought "hey, you know... we can really use this! we've been looking for another cold war!"

I also think some of the "truthers" are nuts. In some ways they're helping whatever cover-up exists by distracting people with insane out-there explanations. Instead, the questions to ask are things like "who is Osama bin Laden and what's his back story" and "what was Mohammed Atta doing in this country?"


Wed, 02/10/2010 - 23:59 | 226181 moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

good points and I tend to agree, crotch bomber could easily be LIHOP...once again govt looks totally incompetent...but are they really that bad..State Dept guys said US was not going to give crotch bomber visa, but CIA told them to cause they were tracking him...then there is the Indian guy trying to get him on with no passport, no video from airport etc....

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 00:10 | 226208 Lord Blankcheck
Lord Blankcheck's picture

In the history of aviation how many "BlacK Boxes" were not recovered?


All four are missing from that day

Fri, 02/12/2010 - 18:42 | 229194 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Dear Lord Blankcheck,

I used to work at Honeywell in the avionics group (in Redmond, WA) that builds the "black box". The flight data that is stored in the box is actually saved to ePROM chips (flash eraseable electrically programmable read-only-memory chips) that are much the same as what we all have in our digital cameras or the "thumb drives" we use to back up our computers. In the flight data recorders (black boxes) these chips are encased in a large quantity of a special wax and placed in a heavy duty metal case as a sort of armor. The "black box" is physically located in the tail of the aircraft because, in the event of a crash, that area typically receives the least force of impact and also might not be in the center of the aviation fuel fire that usually goes along with a crash.

If all goes well, the box will survive a "typical" crash mechanically (that is, it will not be crushed); then, if a fire occurs, it can survive that for a while because the special wax absorbs a large amount of heat as it melts and then vaporizes to a gas. So as the wax melts and vaporizes, it keeps the memory chips cool enough to survive and retain their data.

Qualification test units of the black boxes must pass a "fire test" in which they sit for an hour and half (if I remember correctly) in a fire that is supposed to simulate a fuel fire after a crash. The units would probably still be readable after sitting in the flames of your gas fireplace for 90 minutes. But, once the wax has all boiled away, the temperature of the memory chips will rise to a level of a thousand degrees or so and will be destroyed.

Of course on 9/11, those aircraft that flew into the World Trade buildings sat in flames from thousands of gallons of jet fuel until the structure of the building itself (steel and concrete) failed. Then everything was crushed to dust as the building came down.

The aircraft that crashed into the Pennsylvania countryside might have been survivable for the black box. (I don't remember.) The black box of the aircraft that was flown into the Pentagon was recovered and the the data was intact and readable, if I remember correctly.

Regards to all.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 00:00 | 226185 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I have a hard time buying the conspiracy theories
LT. People state that the heat wasn't intense enough
to melt steel, but they fail to realize that steel
starts loosing its strength as it heats up and therefore
didn't need to get anywhere melting temp in order
to fail under load
I think this was just a massive failure of our
intelligence services and their communications.
Same thing happened on Christmas day with the
crotch bomber, so nothing has been fixed....

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 10:36 | 226571 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

You're obviously not an engineer or physicist...

Fri, 02/12/2010 - 10:33 | 228329 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

How about that thermite they found? It just happened to be there?

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 15:47 | 227233 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

I found it hard to believe this could happen in our country too. Then I watched "Loose Change", 2nd cut, and was seriously troubled by this video. If there was no editing of the film then it's hard to dispute that charges took out support members in some of the collapse footage. All the info about their mock disasters that the military were planning up to 9/11 was also very weird and coincidental. The fact that they confiscated all security tapes and released only 5 screen grabs of the Pentagon crash was very shady. If you  want to believe our government is wholesome and completely innocent, by all means do not watch this video. Not short though, 80+ minutes, but definitely interesting.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 22:41 | 226101 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Oh, this is nothing. Look out for the Nazi sympathisers.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:28 | 225905 Mr Lennon Hendrix
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Ferguson wrote the auto biography for the is a fascinating story, worth reading every chapter.  It is two volumes. 

This pretty well sums it up.  Let the games begin!  and like always, the US pressures some one else to make the first move.  Well, Iran, do what you will.  Remember, you are toying with a country that has nothing left to lose.  At least this is the view from the Fed, who know they have lost 'Merica's wealth down the toilet.  The toilet leads to their bat cave btw. 

"To the Batcave!"  Screamed Timmy Geithner.  He ran ahead of the group making 'driving' noises with his mouth.  "VROOM!  VROOM!"  "Do I get a cape and mask?" asked Sheila Bair.  "Sorry SHEila, you have to be a boy to wear a cape and mask.  You are a girl, so you get pom poms."  Replied BS.  "Oh yeah!  Pom Poms!"  Ironically, Hank Pauslon had pom poms too.  "Hey, why does Hank have Pom Poms?" Sheila asked.  "I, I, I wha- want to be puh-puh-pretty."  said Hank, as drool dripped down his chin.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 01:21 | 226296 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Funny, funny Mr L H.

Please feel free to let us know the name of the book on the Rothschilds, I may buy me a copy.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 10:33 | 226565 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

How many books you guess will come up when you enter "ferguson" and "rothschild" in the search form of the online bookstore of your liking?

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:28 | 225907 GoldSilverDoc
GoldSilverDoc's picture

We knew it all along - Keynesianism was proposed by a fellow who wanted to please his friends in government - and gain their smiles... how to do it? Propose a theory that involves lots of government spending, thus allowing the pols to blow all the cash they want to buy votes.

And it worked, for awhile. Like the Soviet Union worked, for awhile.

But you can't fool Mother Nature forever. All you folks who have paper or "numbers" in the "bank", trade it all for real things. Land (produces rent). Gold (good insurance). Do it soon. Don't think you can pull off just one more scam/trade and squeeze "just a little more" out of the system. Put 90% of it out of reach of the US tax man, and do it soon.

Be like the Boy Scout. Prepared.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:36 | 225924 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

one play that will be interesting is when will people start yanking out their 401ks and damn the penalties??   I'm not talking about old fucks that should of already done that.  I'm saying the Gen Xers that are getting the 100% match and have a lot to lose by pulling out now and even more to lose if it all goes to shit..  


Everyone says the Gen Xers never had any power from lack of numbers..  i think a mass pull out and buying of gold/land would be a hell of a statement


Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:43 | 225939 GoldSilverDoc
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I have said it before, and I'll say it again.


All it will take is for around 5-6% of the folks with bank balances to walk into their banks and demand CASH (as in, the green crap they give you which you will someday soon use for chicken-house litter) in the same week, to end this little fiasco and put us back (after some serious pain) on the right road.

And what will gold be "priced" at?  One ounce, per ounce.  Same as the past 5000 years.



Wed, 02/10/2010 - 20:53 | 225961 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

I have thought about it. Taxes would be a killer too.
If I loose the job, I'll probably cash em out next tax
year. Sept 08 has already demonstrated that we can
loose these things, even when parked in so called
safe assets. Already have much Au and paid off
land. Would stash cashed out 401k in Au and another
10k of 7.62 Nato rounds...

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 01:25 | 226300 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Keep thinking about cashing out.  I did (IRA) in late '08, paid penalties & taxes but have slept better ever since.

Land, Au and lead.  A worthy diversification!  Might want to keep $10,000 or so in FRNs in case we are wrong though...

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 21:07 | 225983 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Unfortunately, most Xers are just as oblivious as the boomers.

I hate to say that, I'm an Xer too.

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 21:22 | 226006 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the intermediate play is to take as big a loan as you can against your 401k and pay off any high debt you have.. or if you dont have any, buy gold and silver


that is the only hedge I see with 401k at this point

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 21:39 | 226025 e_goldstein
e_goldstein's picture

Thanks, I'm all set.  I'm a firm believer in the Mogambo Guru investment strategy,

and have been for awhile.  No debt, long on booze, bullets, beans and bullion (wheee).

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 01:27 | 226301 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

10-4 on the Mogambo's bunker startegy!

"Wheeee!  This investing stuff is easy"

Wed, 02/10/2010 - 23:03 | 226124 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Before they start confiscating 401k's or introducing regulation that mandates a percentage of 401k's must be in US debt, I see them offering an option to take your money out penalty free. After all, they've got cronies on wall street who need a way out. They'll use the talking heads to further brainwash the public into thinking that liquidating your 401k will ruin your long term retirement. The few who understand what's going on will liquidate which will cause a short term strengthening of the dollar which will be a perfect opp to buy gold before it all goes to hell.

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 02:45 | 226345 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

When your 401k deflates in price to near zero, what's the use in cashing out?

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 00:06 | 226199 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Thats exactly what I did, took out a loan
and bought Au, paid off the wife's credit card.
I am fairly certain though, that I will just cash them
out and take the hit, especially now with
Europe looking bad, and no one is even talking
about the eastern block countries like Hungary
with a 100 percent default rate in housing bought
in Euros...

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 14:32 | 227071 earnyermoney
earnyermoney's picture

Believe Mr. Soros has stated that extraordinary times call for extraordinary actions to justify his father's efforts to escape Nazi Germany.


In this context, who says you have to follow established law when you withdrawn your money? Plan accordingly

Thu, 02/11/2010 - 03:36 | 226376 Anonymous
Anonymous's picture

Agree wholeheartedly.
And today Paul Krugman is trying to grow into that role!

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