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Comparison Of North And South Korea's Military Capabilities
Following last night's escalation in hostilities between the two Koreas in what was the worst peacetime incident in over 5 years, the AP has compiled a visual summary of not only the events that transpired, and the generations of conflict built up between the two countries that have led us to the current predicament, but most importantly, a comparison of the military strengths of the two countries. A most useful resource for all those who would like to know if the over/under on either country winning the next shelling incident is on the money.
Full interactive chart below.
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The fact that the fat turd is Swiss educated should tell you a lot. I honestly doubt whether he will modify the usual tantrum-begging-tantrum iteration perfected by his predecessors.
You have inside information about this guy that the rest of us don't have? Or are you just guessing?
I haven't seen anything to suggest he's a 'warmonger' or any sort of power-crazed guy. I'm sure he's _portrayed_ like that to stop opposition to his leadership, but the reality could be entirely different. He studied abroad, he has seen the real world.
The North Korean leadership would be much happier and much richer (and sleep a lot mores soundly) if they led a slightly-less poor country. The way I see things there at the moment; they only have enough food for 50% (or whatever) of the population, so they call that 50% (or whatever) the 'Army' and feed them to keep them on their side; the rest can starve.
I really don't know why they continue.
One thing is clear to me after reading many posts in here...
Many Finance people are not martial thinkers. Not strategically, Not tactically.
As it applies to finance, it may be a different story, but stay away from martial work.
I suppose a military leader would like a complete idiot working in a hedge fund or something, so it's all a wash.
Norks have more bodies, Sorks have neater stuff.
posted earlier:
This is NOT about north & south Korea. THIS IS ABOUT CHINA AND THE USA.
1.Korea is essentially a vassal state of China.
2. Pyongyang would never have made this move without some sort of "understanding" with the PRC.
3. The real question is: What does China hope to gain from this move...and are the idiots in the State Dept smart enough to recognize this for what it is & respond accordingly?
+100
Pure domination, pure hegemonic domination in terms of the final nail in the coffin in terms of capital. China has played the game for how many thousands of years? The US just got into their baby steps maybe 80-90 years ago.
Can you name one invention that has come out of China? They are copiers of other's stuff. The Japanese used to be inventors. Now they too are copiers. During ww2, the Japanese were close to inventing their own indigenous jet aircraft. Heck they even exploded a nuke over by Russia. They were that close to figuring out fission. I think Chinese culture is 5000 years old I believe. One thing is for sure. They have a long memory that is passed down generation to generation. They still remember what we did to them in the opium wars and also after ww2 with Chiang Kai-shek. One thing for sure. They have multi generational patience. They bide their time. They wait. They probe. But they always remember past insults. It is the Asian way. The hidden hand knows this all too well. He will use it to his advantage. He anticipates these actions and uses the emnity between races for his benefit in the quest for world government. So a new golem is made. China vs. USA. The game continues on.
"Can you name one invention that has come out of China?"
Uhh, not one, but many...papermaking, the compass, gunpowder, printing, mechanics, hydraulics, mathmatics, metallurgy, astronomy, agriculture, music theory, engineering, warfare, paper money, etc., etc.
..for his benefit in the quest for world government.
I question your assessment of China's motives. Historically, China has never sought global or even continental dominance. They have moved to protect their boarders and people from invading/threatening forces. This is why the Chinese culture has lasted for over 5000 years.
At this time the Chinese have a need for natural resources that will force them to look outside their boarder (ie Tibet) and they will acquire those resources, in what ever manner is available, if the risk doesn't exceed the benefits.
I doubt they desire a "world government", they have enough issues keeping their own people inline they are NOT foolish enough to attempt to control people from other cultures via a world government run by China.
Huh? China just barely got electric fucking power.
Most of the last 500 years, they haven't been jackshit. WTF are they now except a potemkin nation hiding a toxic waste dump? Can't even breathe the fucking air in the major cities safely.
A grown man playing in the sandbox is what he is.
You don't think N Korea is desperate and shaking down their friends and enemies alike?
That's how I see it. Acting-out for gain.
China has much more to lose than gain from this bullshit.
Wasn't it the Chinese who told us one time, that they had 200 million men they could sacrifice because there was a lot more where that came from? The goal anyway is to reduce the population of the world by about 5/6 if I am not mistaken. A nice little nuclear exchange may just be the ticket for a nice quick population reduction.
HPT - I hope not but understand the point of your above replies. In so far as the innovation and invention claim, the U.S. has a big advantage over the rest of the world: sophistication and the reverse currency.
Let's say Chinese or Japanese are also innovating and inventing identically along side us. We've have the reserve currency to buy and roll up innovation practically at will. We have WTO and more lawyers protecting our intellectual property and corporations. We now have world courts (tribunals) to adjudicate our claims. 9 times out of 10, if that Japanese inventor isn't connected and gets big revenues outside Japan, he'll be bought or fought.
IP can be particularly oppressive. We created the SAT test, administer it, take it, and grade it if you know what I mean. This idea of exceptionalism gives economists like James Galbraith his theories which are totally relative and based on an assumption of total military and currency hegemony. That's fine, if you say so much, which he doesn't. Makes you prone to surprise.
And Bingo was his name-o.
Beijing is just probing Obama's and the American empire's defenses. Its also in response to a division size amphibious assault exercise staged earlier.
China "wins" either way. DPRK attacks, Seoul's industrial capacity is disrupted - shifts to China if China the "good guy." A larger war will not be settled without China's boot on the ground - one way or other.
Its not worth starting a winter land war in Asia to default on $900 billion in long term debt owed to Chinese.
After all the years of setting up hapless Americans in China, its times like this that all those wunderkind executives should consider what happens if you put all your industrial base, turn key manufacturing and R&D into China. Easy to sink all that investment in, impossible to get out without leaving it all behind.
Wonder what's shipping out of Lushun these nights?
PRNK went rounds out b/c of the QE2? Proxy currency wars being fought in real wars?
No. This is essentially another border shooting incident in a very long line of border shooting incidents by parties who are wound more tight than Bernanke's anus.
Everyone is making WAY more out of this than it deserves.
Listen all that need to happen is they drop one nuke on a wind current across SK and pretty much all the big screen TV's will be as rare as a diamon in a bag of bricettes. Along with pretty much all electronic manufacturing facilities. The chips aren't made in china and engines aren't either.
This will be interesting even with the Fed behind money printing efforts to remove a looney by turning on the war machine...again.
This is not going to end well at all. I know everyone seems to worry about nukes which are just fucking awful. I'm waiting for the chemical weapons. Some fucked up shit and long term damage can be gained by that.
Besides what's not to say the Chinese don't send in a 1/20th of their ground troops. They can spare them as "observers". Maybe a pile of migs to sweeten the pot.
What is needed (as usual I find myself differing) is a discussion of "what a flashpoint is" and not "various military capabilities." What makes this area of earth so deadly serious is the fact that "we need a comparison between US and Chinese military capabilities." That is what "flashpoints" are: wars that SUDDENLY become WARS. Market rally tomorrow which could now power itself right up through the end of the year, but don't kid yourself--we could have a major engagement between the United States and "whoever" in a matter of weeks if this "thing" is mishandled. Remember "Sparta invaded and destroyed Athens because he was jealous of her." More to the point "World War I was known as the accidental war for good reason." And for all you worthless warmongers here "watch what you ask for you just might get it." This ain't no Iraq.
When the primary problem of the planet is over population and too many mouths to feed plus using resources, quickest way to handle it is???
Pick one of the four horsemen...only one we're still capable of controlling properly is war.
Flashpoints!! Lots of destabilization out there right now! Will cooler heads prevail? Reminds me of the old teaser serial TV programs....Stay tuned for your next installment....... "Will Flash Gordon hold off the forces of the evil Ming the Merciless?" next chapter at ZH! ;)
As I stated in a post before.South Korea can crush North Korea without American help. North Korea’s million-man army may look impressive on paper, but remember that Iraq had a million-man army, which also had modern equipment, combat experience, and plenty of fuel.
In contrast, North Korean soldiers suffer from malnutrition and rarely train due to a scarcity of fuel and ammo. Most North Korean soldiers could not attack because they are needed to defend the entire DMZ and coastal approaches (they remember the 1950 landing at Inchon) while entire divisions must remain throughout North Korea to fend off heliborne offensives, food riots, and probable coups.
On the other hand, the entire 700,000 man South Korean active duty army can be devoted to the defense of Seoul. The modern South Korean army is backed by over 5,000,000 well-trained reservists who can be called to duty in hours. South Korea has twice the population of the North, thirty times its economic power, and spends three times more on its military each year. South Korean military equipment is first class whereas most of the North Korean military equipment is over 30 years old and much is inoperable due to a lack of maintenance. If war broke out, South Korea has a massive industrial capacity and $94 billion in foreign currency reserves to sustain a war, while North Korea has no industry and no money. As a result, South Korea is roughly five times more powerful than North Korea.
If North Korea insanely attacked, the South Koreans would fight on mountainous and urban terrain which heavily favors defense, and complete air superiority would shoot up anything the North Koreans put on the road. Assuming the North Koreans could start up a thousand of their old tanks and armored vehicles, they cannot advance through the mountainous DMZ. The South Koreans have fortified, mined, and physically blocked all avenues through these mountains, and it would take North Korean infantry and engineers weeks to clear road paths while under fire.
The North Korean military could gain a few thousand meters with human wave assaults into minefields and concrete fortifications. However, these attacks would bog down from heavy casualties, and a lack of food and ammo resupply. Fighting would be bloody as thousands of South Korean and American troops and civilians suffer from North Korean artillery and commando attacks. Nevertheless, the North Korean army would be unable to breakthrough or move supplies forward. Even if North Korea magically broke through, all military analysts scoff at the idea that the North Koreans could bridge large rivers or move tons of supplies forward while under attack from American airpower.
It is important to remember that the last Korean war involved Chinese forces supported by North Koreans with the latest Soviet equipment and supplies. China and Russia no longer aid North Korea and trade openly with South Korea. Thousands of Chinese soldiers guard the Yalu River to prevent crossings by starving North Koreans.
proclaims a triumphant cnbc.
Could this latest posturing have been promoted by the US to strike fear in the East so Bernanke policy is continued? The US will out do all others' crazy if it comes down to it, and everybody knows that, so they go along with it. We may wait until peak oil, unless we take back the monie supply first.
Here is a link to a report on North Korea on scribd. Its pretty long but it is free. It deals with succession, the food crisis, military and WMD, and economics.
http://www.scribd.com/doc/28375249/North-Korea-National-Intelligence-Est...
IrishElk, the largest deer that ever lived.
The chart is completely useless and grossly inaccurate. North Korea has a numerical advantage in aircraft and tanks, but they are largely obsolete. South Korea has a vast qualitative advantage. South Korea has 12 submarines, not 43. It also has advanced AEGIS equipped guided missile destroyers armed with advanced SAMs, anti-ship missiles, and land attack cruise missiles. They also have a helicopter carrier. North Korea has 22 Romeo class subs based on a WW2 German U-boat in various states of rusting, and a bunch of midget subs (aka coffins). Their surface navy costs entirely of PT boats. NK's army, though far larger in numbers is poorly trained and poorly equipped. SK's army is very well trained and well equipped.
NK's principal military advantage is a large force of artillery pieces, many of which are aimed at Seoul (which is close to the DMZ). In any sizable conflict, Seoul would be hit by several tens of thousands of artillery shells, reducing the city to rubble. NK's shorter range ballistic missiles would likely be used on HQ's, airfields, and other high value targets. The longer range missiles have large minimum ranges and couldn't hit anywhere in SK.
It should be noted that several US military bases lie just across the DMZ. These would be shelled by NK artillery and probably overrun by NK tanks in the opening moments of any conflict, resulting in the death of several thousand US soldiers, virtually requiring a US response, unless President Obama wants his approval rate to drop to 5%.
All that said, the current spat is just for show. NK wants to get the US back to the 6 party talks to get more handouts, and Kim Jong Il is creating an environment to consolidate power to allow a transition to his son. So everyone relax.
We are also have been at a state of war since the 50's because nothing has been signed to fix it pernamently.
One way or another this will be settled. It's going to hurt yes. But that too shall pass.
US should announce unilateral withdrawal of forces from the Korean peninsula effective immediately. Let them at each other. Good for Ford, good for GM. I don't think ROK is a big buyer of US Treasuries - so why do we care? We can compensate by selling them lots of weapons and planes at market rate. Now that would be US economic stimulus we could believe in!
The most accurate summary of the situation so far. Tyler, I recommend you use this information instead of that terrible AP chart.
Noone cares about SK...it's stupid to have our military there, wasting $ and doing a job the ROK should be doing for themselves. Instead, we free up their resources to build cars, electronics, etc. and dump them in our markets. A model the Chinese learned well. Let them use their Hyundai's against the DPRK. Worst case is the ROK car mfr's are bombed out and Ford/GM stock skyrocket. China wins, we win. It's Win Win all over again. Just like QE1, QE1.5, QE2, QE^n. We may never lose again at this rate.
And we suffered the indignity of their population protesting against the US in the past. I'd rather they just said 'thank you' and went on their way. Either way, I don't give a damn what they think they're entitled to!!
I believe this is the clip you want. 2nd best in the whole movie, right after the one following the line "I promise I will never die"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xh_9QhRzJEs
What the ROK & US should do is a pre-emptive strike. Strike FIRST, strike hard, strike deep. Love'em or hate em, that's what the Israelis would do. That's how you survive. De-fang the snake. Make them unable to attack you. Just need two carrier groups and the Norks will wither on the vine. Do it fast, "clean" & dont give China the chance to protest. No one else but Iran would complain. Who cares? Really! Who the fuck would care?
You have this wrong - we need DPRK to wipe ROK flat as a pancake. Good for GM, good for F. Probably good for whatever electronics industry we still have in the US.
'Good business is where you find it.'
Israel would never attack under these circumstances.
I don't think Israel has ever attacked any nation with even 1/20th of this gross force that was able to leave calculable damage. You think they'd attack Iran if it had N Korea's claimed nuke capability? Never. That's one reason Iran wants it: insurance.
We made our error decades ago when we went soft on nuclear proliferation. Israel ironically after 1963 was a clear miss, Pakistan, India, etc.. We had a chance to lock it up and tie it to credit, money, alliance. We didn't.
Mega-fail.
I care.
The CVBG's are all well and good. I favor the B-2 Spirits if we can round em all up for a cattle call and drive em iron straight into the "Norks" (Apparently the new lingo is rubbing off on me) and hopefully the Spirits can take down the important stuff and open the door for the Bones (B-1's) and the Raptors can clean the skies while the CVBG's moving into position.
We need those old battleships again. I think we have 4 left in museums. Those guns will reach deep on coastal roads where NK needs to strike south.
And I cannot begin to tell you how much trouble the Seawolf and Virginia class submarines can stir up in the area along with whatever else we bring to the party.
However.
To make total war using all assets delivering firepower onto all the layers of the Norks as a entire Nation within a very short amount of time can really screw them up. But once they dust themselves off, it's going to be up to the Marine and Infantry to settle this thing once and for all.
You will not believe how many little hills, paths and terrain is in the entire part of the earth in both Koreas. It's almost made for having wars.
There was a computer game in the late 90's called "Theater of Operations" where a full Nork and Sork war is a scenario. I learned that Seoul is in a valley defended by two river crossings northward towards the DMZ. In the game I poured all armor into the valley north of Seoul and the air power onto the roads on the east coast.
Three real time days and a pile of ding dongs later, Seoul was destroyed, virtually all armor destroyed, half the artillery and I was considering two options. Nuclear tatical and building a Pusan Alamo while the resupply was coming from Mainland USA in a week by ship and days by air.
I threw in 4 Marine divisions behind the west coast DMZ losing a battle ship and a number of units in the process of trying to pinch off the highway straight south to Seoul. Eventually the computer cut off and surrounded the remains of that invading force. But it bought me time to mass armor north of Seoul and bring up the infantry/artillery.
However costly, that Marine counter stroke against the enemy attack vector was very useful in "Clotting" the gushing artery as it were.
Fortunately the computer surrendered because it has basically been bled dry. I don't think the American people will ever accept the losses I was willing to accept to grind the Nork juggernaught to a halt.
But either way Seoul was lost. But the Norks have to be stopped before they get south of Seoul. It has to happen or else all is infected.
The game was designed upon 1984 type Orders of battle for that era. What we have now in the 2010 era is generations beyond the old M60 tanks and such. If the game was sufficient in scope, I would have transferred two corps from europe and threw them into the fight against the North Korean Capital. That would be something indeed.
Not even Asia is worried about Asia, China green. Our futures aren't worried either glowing green as well. Now we hear more rhetoric from north and south. Saber rattling. Pure and simple.
Next crisis, please.
Yawn, same sorry strawman of distraction.
"Business" under attack in USA by FBI is promptly taken off the headlines by the quasi-heating of a proxy cold war between SK western interests and its' economic irritants (NK is a sino-russian check on western power-- a self-fulfilling propaganda machine).
Remember the Yemen bombers in October -- to jog your memory, it occurred sometime in between Palin's daughter dancing on teevee and Brett Farve twitting images of his highest member -- yeah, you do. A month later a huge rollout of irradiation devices and traveler molestation was spawned. Some bogus bombs = radiation treatment and / or sexual molestation for all travelers. Internal corruption distracted by old international grudges.
Satan smiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtqy4DTHGqg
Yawn, same sorry strawman of distraction.
"Business" under attack in USA by FBI is promptly taken off the headlines by the quasi-heating of a proxy cold war between SK western interests and its' economic irritants (NK is a sino-russian check on western power-- a self-fulfilling propaganda machine).
Remember the Yemen bombers in October -- to jog your memory, it occurred sometime in between Palin's daughter dancing on teevee and Brett Farve twitting images of his highest member -- yeah, you do. A month later a huge rollout of irradiation devices and traveler molestation was spawned. Some bogus bombs = radiation treatment and / or sexual molestation for all travelers. Internal corruption distracted by old international grudges.
Satan smiles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xtqy4DTHGqg
SK fired the first shot per http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=22066
oh wow, fancy that... Korea is unched on the day... "how much is WW3 priced into this mkt?"... about that much... hamsters
SEC fucked with the wrong niggaz.
Thanks SEC you FUCKED US ALL (including yourself dumbshits)
Who the fuck told you to do this? This was Obama wasn't it?
Welcome to hell.
america and allies exercise miltary readiness with months of notice to all parties in the region. A local dictator launches bombs into our civilian neighbor hoods during our military readiness.
The american president ask China what to do! PLEASE HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
well dad who will protect us now
Why have the South Koreans not slowly moved all the industry and infrastrucure south out of artillery range?
They could have given incentives to do so when a business needs to move to a new building or get a new facility and keep it expensive to stay put.
Seems like a no-brainer.
I don't know if this was already posted, but your article is irrelevant.
In this case, the only topic is comparing the capabilities of the USA vs. North Korea.
Anyone need a BARF bag?
God help us.
North Korea is a Chinese satellite. Its Trumans fault. MacArthur wanted to go in and nuke the Chinese back to Beijing, now we have this never ending war. Politicians can start wars but will not end them because of the money being made.
Same thing with Afganistan now, tactical nuke those opium fields and tribal areas the radition will get them don't worry. Never ending slow bleeds making these political shit for brains money, damm them to hell.
;;rant off;;;
Have a happy thanksgiving.. Gobble Gobble.
Send over Hawkeye Pierce to negotiate an end to the shelling, else Major Hoolihan will personally kick their butts.
Maybe if the U.S. sends troops and then pulls them back Obama can be awarded another Nobel Peace prize.
I have a feeling soon that North Korea is going to hit something important down there that belongs to us.
Then the people will cry for war and loose the dogs of havoc.
Won't happen. And the people have no say in it.
It's a performance in which the magician's other hand is reaching for Iran. War in the middle east is the objective.
The oligarchs don't need to go to war against either China or Russia -- because both are already firmly under the control of authoritarian governments.