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Complete Ron Paul Highlights From Last Night's New Hampshire Debate

Tyler Durden's picture


While last night's republican debate was at best a complete waste of 2 hours, and at worst something not even fit for the pages of Zero Hedge (and we have very low standards - Zero "low hanging fruit" Hedge is what we are often been called), there was 20 minutes worthy of popular attention, and all of them belonged to Ron Paul. The Texas anti-Fed crusader presented his rational opinion, substantiated by actual fact and, more shockingly, math, glaringly standing out from the herd. Alas, since America always and without fail elects precisely the candidate it so rightfully deserves, it pains us to conclude that Paul has zero chance at the presidency. That said, we hope to convert at least one additional human to his cause by presenting the complete highlight reel from yesterday. Yes it is commercial- and other candidate-free so the signal to noise ratio is not seppuku inducing.


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Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:50 | 1369483 Irwin Fletcher
Irwin Fletcher's picture

I bet CNN loves to see Ron Paul winning with 80% in their poll.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:49 | 1369612 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

who or what is CNN? 'never heard of it

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:00 | 1369677 malalingua
malalingua's picture

CNN stands for Cartoon News Network, per Gerald Celente....I happen to agree.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:17 | 1369862 rocker
rocker's picture

Takes a Fake Oligarch Xenon station to know a Carton show when they see one. 

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:11 | 1370029 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

No Taxes Collected Jobs Shipped to China 50K a Month since 2000 and now Cuts to Real Working Americans


For a DECADE! We have shipped 50,000 Jobs a MONTH! To China! (alone)


For the majority of that time we have given Tax Breaks to Corporations to Move those Jobs.


For the better part of a DECADE! We have undermined our own Tax Base!


For Longer! Than a Decade we have allowed the Largest Money Makers, with the Largest Lobby’s to Pay almost NO! Fucking Taxes!


America is NOT! a Country that has no social safety net or that is supposed to be OK! With being a Police State.


If any Citizens want to live in an America with no Social Safety Nets!

If any Citizens want to live in an America that is a Police State!

Should get the fuck out and go live in one of the MANY! Shit Hole Countries that are already living under those conditions!


America is Supposed to be better than those 3rd World Countries!

But the top 1% of the 1% keep spending Lobby monies and Buying T.V. ad time to realize a 3 rd World America!


Most of you buy Gold and Silver to insulate yourselves from an uncomfortable life style! I buy Gold and Silver so that in the event of Social un-rest that I may be able to pay for / feed an army to Rout by the Almighty God! You Wanna Be Tight Fisted, Treasonist Scum from My Country! I pray for the chance to rid this once Great Country of the scum that is the real drag that keeps hungry children hungry! God have mercy on you because I will NOT!


All of you that support people / corporations NOT paying their fair share!

All of you that support a 3rd World Living Standard for any American for ANY REASON!

I want to see you Hanged on the White House Lawn!

      Top 10 corporations which paid no taxes

Here is Sen. Sanders’ list of the 10 worst corporate income tax avoiders:

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. (Source: Exxon Mobil’s 2009 shareholder report filed with the SEC here.)

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion. (Source: here, ProPublica here and Treasury here.)

3) General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States over the past five years and, thanks to clever use of loopholes, paid no taxes.(Source: Citizens for Tax Justice here and The New York Times here. Note: despite rumors to the contrary, the Times has stood by its story.)

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009. (Source: See 2009 Chevron annual report here. Note 15 on page FS-46 of this report shows a U.S. federal income tax liability of $128 million, but that it was able to defer $147 million for a U.S. federal income tax liability of negative $19 million.)

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year. (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here and Citizens for Tax Justice here.)

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year, received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction. (Source: the company’s 2009 annual report, pg. 112, here.)

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department. (Source: Bloomberg News here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury. (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2006 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction. (Sources: Profits can be found here. The deduction can be found on the company’s 2010 SEC 10-K report to shareholders on 2009 finances, pg. 127, here.)

10) Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits over the past five years, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent. (Source: The New York Times here.)




‘Dutch Sandwich’ saves Google billions in taxes Internet giant uses complex structure to keep its overseas tax rate at 2.4%





Microsoft’s purchase of Skype for $8.5 billion provides a perfect illustration of why adopting a true worldwide corporate income tax system is critical to our economic future.  

According to the Wall Street Journal, the cash for Microsoft’s purchase of Skype (a Luxembourg-based company) will come out of its $42 billion in liquid assets held in foreign subsidiaries.

Because it is purchasing a foreign company with its overseas assets, Microsoft can avoid paying any U.S. tax that would be due if it had repatriated foreign earnings in order to purchase a US company for the same amount. Based on the company's effective foreign income tax rate disclosed in their most recent SEC filings, a repatriation of $8.5 billion dollars would cost Microsoft somewhere in the neighborhood of $1.1 billion in U.S. tax.

As a Forbes commentator opines, the Microsoft-Skype deal demonstrates the harmful incentive created in our current system that encourages companies to invest in overseas companies rather than domestic ones. The fear is that this deal may just be “a harbinger of things to come.”


Republicans to roll out new tax-cut proposal: WSJ
25 May 2011, by Michael Kitchen - Los Angeles (MarketWatch)

Republicans in the U.S. House of Representatives are set to unveil a new economic proposal Thursday that will cut taxes for multinational corporations and lower other tax rates.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:20 | 1370034 redpill
redpill's picture

"People talk about opting out of Obamacare, why can't we talk about opting out of everything?"


Fuck an A!!  Go Ron Paul!!!


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:24 | 1370048 Canaduh
Canaduh's picture

Just wanted to interject near the top of this thread, that as a impartial 3rd party observer, Ron Paul does not do his cause any service by speaking in public. He gets too excited when it's his turn to talk and ends up stammering out his talking pointsin a very unsmooth way.

 People who already are aware of what he is saying don't seem to mind, but the clueless sheep see him as crazy uncle Larry that keeps bringing up stuff no one wants to hear at Thanksgiving. Not that I don't agree with what he's saying, but  if you were looking for ways to keep a lid on the cause he 'fronts', you couldn't come up with a better codger to make spokesman. Ron Paul is only allowed to say what he says because he delivers it in such an unappealing manner, the vast majority automatically tune him out once he starts speaking.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 02:09 | 1370111 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture


so Paul gets an F in the "smooth" dept.

he gets an A in the "right" dept.


still my guy. 

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 02:27 | 1370120 Michael
Michael's picture

A very easy flaw to overlook when you overcome your American Idol syndrome.

It's substance, not glitter, that counts.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 08:09 | 1370412 snowball777
snowball777's picture

...with a laughably small portion of the American population. Makes about as much sense as hoping the girl with big tits will learn to love your acne and premature ejac if she could only get to know you as a person.


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 03:12 | 1370156 MadeOfQuarks
MadeOfQuarks's picture

Hmmm, maybe he should mispronouce words, look more disoriented, smile at the wrong time and say "uhhh" more, in addition to stuttering. Tried and proven.

I'm not sure about talking smooth though, smooth talkin' college types never got no place.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 03:46 | 1370175 Michael
Michael's picture


Dr Ron Paul is the only politician I know who's not in it for the money or fame.

He just wants things to be better for all of us.

That's why in one market segment of Alex Jones listeners, Ron Paul has 5 million AJ listener votes.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 08:07 | 1370416 snowball777
snowball777's picture

Bullshit he's not in it for the money; who has raised more without winning (or really even running, in some years)?

Where is that money now again?


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 08:39 | 1370490 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

There is a "money" component to the Ron Paul Revolution, and I would like some transparency regarding the fundraising and spending for past and present campaigns.  That being said, he still has my vote and will get a few bucks from me for the current campaign.  I would like to see some national ads or maybe a 30 minute "infomercial" run on cable stations this time around.  Bumper stickers and yard signs aren't going to be enough to win the hearts and clouded minds of today's voters.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 14:22 | 1371980 Baptiste Say
Baptiste Say's picture

It was $4 million left over and it was given to the Liberty PAC to support other liberty and constitution promoting candidates iirc.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 05:28 | 1370241 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Yet, Americans elected G.W. Bush -- TWICE!

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 11:56 | 1371236 Metropolis_Minx
Metropolis_Minx's picture



To me, Paul comes across as unabashingly sincere. After all the slick, silver-tongued bastards skipping through the revolving door of the White House, (except for GWB's Neanderthal garble) it's a welcome relief. Plus, all that "constitution stuff", those are words he lives by if his congressional record is any indication.


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 11:22 | 1370448 HistorySquared
HistorySquared's picture


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 08:22 | 1370449 HistorySquared
HistorySquared's picture

"Who does best against Obama? Paul. The congressman from Texas, who also ran as a libertarian candidate for president in 1988 and who is well liked by many in the tea party movement, trails Obama by only seven points (52 to 45 percent) in a hypothetical general election showdown. Huckabee trails by eight points, with Romney down 11 points to Obama."

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 11:41 | 1371198 Metropolis_Minx
Metropolis_Minx's picture

Ron Paul running away with the poll at 81% now.

By the time Nov. of 2012 gets here, everybody is going to condemn the Fed. So I think RP has more than a fighting chance.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:13 | 1369540 pesamystik
pesamystik's picture

Yeah, way to try and divide and conquer. Your idea is just to bury your head in the sand. Ron Paul has had virtually no power the entire time he has been a politician. Lets see what he can do in office before you rant on and on about his "failed" policies when they have never been allowed to come close to existing.

As long as Ron Paul ends the Fed, he's 100% getting my vote. 

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:35 | 1369586 MarketTruth
MarketTruth's picture

Look at how Ron Paul votes on items... then look at how the other candidates vote. Then listen to what all of then say and you will note Ron Paul VOTES with what he says while other say nice things in hopes of getting votes yet their voting record is far different.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:09 | 1369702 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture


I track my folks ...

... and I add Ron Paul to the list! Makes it so easy to compare my folks to the good man from Texas.



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:31 | 1369760 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Don't forget to take a look at who is buying the candidates:

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 02:45 | 1370135 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

While you're at the Open Secrets website, take a look at Ron Paul's earmarks.  In 2009, he sponsored or co-sponsored 23 bills with a total of nearly $81,000,000 going to pet projects in his district. In total money spent, he ranked 33 out of 435 representatives.

How's that for small government libertarianism?  It's hilarious how the right-wing in America (even the hard-core, anti-government libertarians like RP) want to criticize government spending - even demonize it - yet they have their hands in the cookie jar like everyone else. And not only does RP have his hand in the cookie jar, he's one of the largest PORKERS in Washington, taking more money than 90% of his cohorts!  

Fucking hypocrite!

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 05:53 | 1370222 jaffi
jaffi's picture

How many real spending bills did he actually give a "yea" vote to?  Every bill that he has given a "yea" vote dealing with funds were not spending bills, they were tax credits or tax cuts (i.e. letting taxpayers get more of their money back and/or pay less in); read the actual bills that he has voted "yea" on.  And, just so you know, those two with the highest price tag were to repair infrastructure after Hurricane Ike (he still voted no).  

As for earmarks, of course he is going to earmark a portion of the bill (any bill), if he doesn't and the bill passes, those funds go to another district or fall under the discretion of the Executive branch.  It is his job as a representative to his district to ensure that if the spending IS going to occur (even if he is against the bill), that his constituents get some of the money back that they paid into the system.  An earmark is merely allocating where the money goes if it is indeed going to be spent... Are you really that dense?  

Now, let me ask, are you aware of how many congressmen divulged their earmarks for that you posted (2009)?  A little over 100 (out of 535).  Ron Paul divulges all of his earmarks to the public, votes no on all of them, and I can't seem to find any that are porkbarrel projects; those earmarks for the damaged infrastucture weren't even in his district (they were for the state infrastructure), and thus doesn't fit the definition of pork by the 'Citizens Against Public Waste'.

It was nice to be able to see you for who you are- a propagandist.  Read the fucking bills next time, and look at the voting record, then maybe you can talk.   


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 08:28 | 1370462 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

yeh sure. he attaches the earmarks, then he votes against it.  we all know how congress works. his vote doesn't matter. so they let him play this little game. but the bills get passed anyway. so his mission is completed. he got his earmarks and if anyone complains about his pork barrel spending, he can then say, well i voted against it......

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 07:59 | 1370398 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Hey sock puppet, if you look at the breakdown of the earmarks, you'll see that more than 50% of it was for maintenance of the Intracoastal Waterway and other port-related national infrastructure.  After dozens of years in office, with the Republican leadership working overtime to field candidates against him, Dr. Paul finally did what every desperate politician has been doing for decades, bringing home the bacon.  I for one am glad he's adapting to beat them at their own game.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 08:42 | 1370500 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yes, it is hypocritical for a slave to take food from their master, even as they yearn to be free.

He is merely taking back the money that his district has lost to federal taxes.

But a lying sack of shit hypocrite like you wouldn't claim to understand that.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:13 | 1369703 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture

Go through the YouTube archives and watch the Presidential debates from 20 or 30 years ago. 

It's the exact same kabuki theatre, arguing the exact same issues with minor nuances: war, the need to spread peace through force, and the fleecing of the middle class. You could take any presidential debate over the past generation and have Obama and Romney read the 30-year script from a teleprompter, and no one would know the difference aside from just a few minor exceptions.  

The only thing different are the stage characters. Amazingly, the rhetoric is the exact same - not similar....the exact fucking same! When the history books are written, our generation will be regarded as the most vacuous and destructive generation in American history.  We've created a country that's totally hallowed out, and a populous too dumb to care about it. Everyone has been sedated with professional sports, reality television and gluttonous consumerism while the plutocrats suck all the marrow from the bone.   

20 years ago, here's Perot, Clinton and Bush debating the EXACT same talking points that we've heard forever.  Pay particular attention to Clinton's "change" message:

How about 30 years ago?


It's pathetic.  



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:40 | 1369779 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Uhhh, yeah, except, again, Ron Paul actually backs up his words with both facts and a voting record.

Feeling a little scared, are we, Red Neck Repugnicant, I mean Mark McGoldrick, I mean Texas Gunslinger, oh, whatever the fuck your name is.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:40 | 1369911 Transformer
Transformer's picture

What this is all about is the Republicans, the MSM, the Elites are all scared to death of Ron Paul.  It is exactly time for someone like him.  A huge part of the populace is disallusioned with the sytem, and know that the other guys are talking the same old shit.They lie and lie and once elected they do what wall street wants.

Ron Paul does have a chance this time.  Believe me a whole bunch of us are fed up and are not gonna believe the mainstream guys any more.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:09 | 1370026 eureka
eureka's picture

Ron Paul is the real deal. Why don't we have any young lions like him?

(Rand is no Ron). We need a couple dozen young Pauls to hammer the message.

Where are they. 300 Million people and only one intelligent politician...?

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:39 | 1370072 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Well no one worth a d@mn wants to be a Politician -- the only inroads these days is your family's surname and money. Rand Paul has both - there are good people waiting for the dam to break before getting involved, but ufortuately your next crop of young lions are going to surface when they are leading rioting groups of people after the Fed, Wall Street kleptocrats, and the TSA pedofiles. Those Lead rioters may make a good Freshman Congressional Class - in the meantime = GO RON GO!

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 02:25 | 1370122 GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

I think Rand has used pragmatism to soften some of the "hard edges" of his dad's fairly consistent idealism in order to "play the game" a bit and get elected.  I much prefer Ron's way but I do know people who really like Rand and his style.  And!  These folks are now considering Ron because of Rand.  A friend of mine knows Rand personally and says that apple didn't fall far from the tree.

As to the young lions, I know of several who have run and are planning to run for various offices.  The huge issue is the party Establishment.  They go to great lengths to keep their favored candidates in and everyone else out.  This  is also why 3rd parties can't get any traction.  Don't know if you've ever gotten involved in a party or attended a party convention---if not, you ought to participate just to witness all the corruption.  It is mind blowing, but it is also where your weighted vote counts the most.  It would be difficult, but Ron Paul types could take over the repuke party, precinct by precinct, if enough people would show up.       


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:11 | 1369856 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I would point out that the "establishment" has had control of the country the entire time. I could even cite the semi-recent ZH piece on Eisenhower (the last president to SHRINK the federal budget).

Perot didn't win, so you can't fault his talking points. If he won and then didn't follow through, you could go hog wild.

Paul has the record for all those years in Congress to do exactly what he says he is going to do. If I was a gambling man, I would put chips on him before I bet on any of the other three legged mules to win the triple crown of liberty. I don't care what you insist the odds are, its all our fair lady has got left. Stay vigilant!

And some humor on the point you make:



Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:04 | 1370018 eureka
eureka's picture

That IS AmeriKa - simple choices for simple folks:

Coke or Pepsi? Same shit!  Dems or Gops?  Same empire, same goons.

But hte people... think they're free and brave and exercising free will and choice.

HAH HAH HAH - if it weren't so terribly sad.....

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 08:28 | 1370450 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Yes, we've had the same problems, unaddressed for an entire generation.  Speaks volumes more about the electorate than about the actors.

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter. -Churchill

Recall, about 68% of values drawn from a normal distribution are within one standard deviation σ away from the mean. And 68% constitutes a supermajority.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:19 | 1369544 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture


Real growth in the prehistoric, heavy energy usage of the Gilded Age was at least 3.8% over 10 years and some have argued a lot more than that.  With CPUs doing twice as much work for the same energy every 3 years, a decent fiber optic nationwide network (which is mostly there already), growth could occur quite easily with little additional energy usage.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 03:20 | 1370163 MadeOfQuarks
MadeOfQuarks's picture


This idea that growth must mean proportionate additional resource consumption ignores the fact that something that is smaller or otherwise less resource consuming is often more valuable than the corresponding larger/less efficient item. Right now it doesn't hold true for cars in the USA, but I'd wager on a worldwide basis people prefer cars that consume less energy, homes that don't require as much heating/cooling, flatter TVs, smaller iThings etc

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:19 | 1369556 ZackLo
ZackLo's picture

and squeeze the value of ALL of the credit money value into the gold and silver market and you will get 10-15% returns on saving rates...might not nominally look the same but in real terms it will be 10-15% remove the fed and let the banks eat each other a live trying to get the highest interest rates and you have a recipe for prosperity..also abolish fractional reserve banking..

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:07 | 1369689 LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

Bingo. Fractional reserve banking MUST GO!

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:22 | 1369567 earnulf
earnulf's picture

RP at least has the guts to call a spade a spade. Even if the MSM and its supporters are confused by facts and numbers greater than two digits. Given that Republicans are still convinced that spending cuts are all that are needed to balance the budget, not a single one is competent to run for the highest office in this land.

At least RP offers a glimmer of hope, instead of the pablum coated conservative palin pills being hucked by Republicans.

Demos are no better I agree since they believe that only tax increases will save the union.

Facts are facts. There is no way the government will balance the budget in the next five years regardless of what cuts or tax hikes are enacted and you can take that to the bank.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:08 | 1369574 Bay of Pigs
Bay of Pigs's picture

You make some valid points (overstating growth projections) but your character assassination of RP is pathetic. Maybe you should look at his life history and voting record before making yourself look like such an asshole?

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:44 | 1369606 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

Well, if all you chose to do is cherry-pick 1.42 mins of debate to make an assumption, then I suppose all I need to read was up to: (1.42, to be exact). The rest must have been bullshit to validate your unconsidered position, no?

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:53 | 1369642 brew
brew's picture


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:09 | 1369694 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

He's not at all full of shit. He actually votes according to what he believes often against his own party. Free markets have rarely been tried. What is full of shit is central planning, collectivism, statism and "managed markets". History shows they never work, not ever, never, not once. Give them time and they all crash and burn. Take away fiat currencies and borrowing and it happens rather quickly.

No one truly knows what free markets and people can produce but it is provable that they provide balanced growth with minimal quick corrections in any part of an economy. Free markets are absolutely necessary to individual liberty. To not believe in them is to not believe in liberty. They are inseperable. You cannot have free markets and people with 100% tax rates and tens of thousands of pages of rules.

So if he advocates "capitalism fantasyland" what do you advocate in it's place. I bet I can guess.

If we ever return to free markets you'd better invest heavily in Dairy Queen and high quality sound equipment.

Of all the Republicans I truly believe Ron Paul is the only one that has the potential to effect lasting change. The others may be decent people and liberty oriented but they will leave the beast as it is, even if they put it on a diet temporarily.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:56 | 1370005 ProdigyofZen
ProdigyofZen's picture

The problem with the logic that "free markets have barely been tried" is that the progressive left also says the same thing about communism and marxism.

This is one of the top arguments from left wing liberals at my university back in the day. They would all claim that "TRUE" communism or socialism has never been tried. There has always been an element of capitalism.

Just be careful falling into this trap.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:11 | 1370023 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

In college debate that may be accurate. However, I or any dispassionate observer of markets can produce the 80k pages of the Federal Register, 40k pages of the U.S. tax code and simple observations of currency manipulations and international trade. One can say that trade and business have been more and less free at times. I would concur and show that economic results are proportionate. Additionally there are many analyses of the correlation of wealth and freedom, generally starting with Hong Kong at the top. So, it is not mere assertion.

I would submit that since the proponents of communism have in fact taken charge of about 3/4 of the surface of the earth at different times, called themselves communists, paid homage to Marx and actually tried to organize their societies that they have had their chance. Results have been remarkably similar everywhere.

I will submit that pure capitalism is probably not practicable in this time. Most of the world's population has been sold on some level of collectivism. However, I reject any portion of the notion that our present economic troubles have much of anything to do with unfettered capitalism of any sort save crony capitalism which is simply fascism by another name.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:34 | 1369774 ihaveabalancedc...
ihaveabalancedcheckbook's picture

You definitely not "Libertarians for Prosperity"

Your first meaningful question is - How are we going to find the energy to support a doubling of our economy every 10 years?  -  So the economy booms and neesd energy, rates go up, capital flows to company that build energy systems. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong?





Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:34 | 1369775 ihaveabalancedc...
ihaveabalancedcheckbook's picture

You definitely not "Libertarians for Prosperity"

Your first meaningful question is - How are we going to find the energy to support a doubling of our economy every 10 years?  -  So the economy booms and neesd energy, rates go up, capital flows to company that build energy systems. Right? Correct me if I'm wrong?





Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:39 | 1369929 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I watched none of it, yet I agree with you (for the first time in your 2 weeks here, I think...I don't believe you are a libertarian)!

It's a charade, farce, deception, travesty, pantomime ... in short, a con!

Those who still haven't woken up to the Hegelian dialectic (false dichotomy; false "left...right" paradigm) are doomed to continue queueing up for the shearing of their senseless votes at the "suggestion box for slaves" in 2012. (How's that for mixing metaphors?!)

Was listening to a BBC news clip on the debate: no mention of Ron Paul at all; brief focus on the "movie star" qualities of Romney; a biting clip from the Newt on some divisive issue or another; short voice clip of Bachmann [Turn-er Over-and-Drive!]. That is roughly similar to what the American people will be fed ad nauseum until Perry announces (and "they" will only trot him out if the polls start turning against O'bomber, just so they have an each-way bet).

I'm sure RP is a very nice and honourable gentleman (I like his economics, but he can shove his religious stuff somewhere else...separation of church and state 'n'all) but, for fuck's sake, he has achieved nothing in 35 years in Congress but to introduce Austrian economics into the debate as a side issue to be set against Keynesianism in the dialectic (none of the other republicrats or democans would be able to articulate it...and I think he also does it poorly). Apart from that, he's 10 years older than the guy they just knocked back from the IMF race for being "too old" (and 6 years older than Reagan was when elected)!

Even if he gets some media coverage--which he won't--he'll get a few percent of the vote from the R delegates (who don't even have to vote as their delegating state voted!!) and return to the sidelines as chairman of a finance committee that is achieving nothing related to prudent finance.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:56 | 1370006 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

genuinely hard to stomach people HERE getting wound up for "elections" again. . .

At least RP offers a glimmer of hope

that's just sad. . . has no one been paying ANY attention to ZH, do folk genuinely believe ONE MAN is going to change this massive systemic theft, that VOTING is going to address what has happened over a century of supposed "voter representation" - from Congress to Senate to Pentagon to Supreme Court - thousands upon thousands of sponges soaking up any monies waved their way while completely ignoring the concept of sovereignty????

"voting" is a false flag waved every couple of years, then back to ignoring anything but whatever your current obsession is - "voting" is the least you can do, and usually is.


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:19 | 1370032 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

You need to believe something or you are just left to follow. It may be a longshot for RP, even impossible. What I actually hope and do see some evidence of is the permeation of the ideas. I see Keynes, Austrian, libertarian, collectivist, etc. used more now than any time I can remember. I even saw Romney adopting some concepts on currency, taxation and debt. Many times you lose the battles but still win the war.

Collectivism-statism-central planning will never work or produce anything remotely similar to what it promises. The battles have been lost for over a century, yet the war will be won ultimately. It's kind of like bad physics versus accurate physics.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:48 | 1370080 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

the "something" I believe in does not include a hierarchy of overpaid dunces with dual-passports legislating on behalf of corporations while stuffing their pockets with bribes, in "courts" that legislate control over female fertility while paying zero attention to male sperm donors, that proudly promotes genocidal wars under the guise of "patriotism" - and spends obscene amounts of money on a global military while ramping up the survellience of "citizens" at "home" - and how many times can one watch pre-election "debates" and listen to their speechifying promises PRIOR to getting the gig only to witness the same ole same ole once they get their seats & titles. . .oh, what's the use. . .

vote.  vote Ron Paul, or whoever - but seriously, if anyone still believes that changing figureheads will make even the slightest dent in the coming meltdown, well hey, yer WINNING!!!!1!!


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 12:11 | 1371306 Metropolis_Minx
Metropolis_Minx's picture


Someone has to be around to pick up the burnt, crispy pieces of our nation after the Fed explodes it. I'd rather it be a constitutionist rather than an IMF, UN, NATO or World Bank player.

I'm not exactly thrilled with all the hoopla involved with the upcoming election year, either. But at least it will keep most of them in line and less likely to push something foolish and possibly dangerous through. that I think about it, strike that last sentence from the record.



Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:31 | 1369973 i-dog
i-dog's picture

</freakin duplicate>

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:54 | 1370009 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

it was worth re-reading dog.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 03:41 | 1370173 Michael
Michael's picture

Dr Ron Paul is the only politician I know who's not in it for the money or fame.

He just wants things to be better for all of us.

That's why in one market segment of Alex Jones listeners, Ron Paul has 5 million AJ listener votes.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 04:54 | 1370221 LudwigVon
LudwigVon's picture

"How are we going to find the energy"

Ignorant rhetorical question.

We have had LFTR technology for decades now in the wings waiting. 100,ooo's of years of energy, ready. N00b

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 05:32 | 1370244 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The surface of a planet is NOT the correct place for an expanding technological civilization -- didn't you get the memo?

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 07:01 | 1370301 Doc
Doc's picture

I love Ron Paul and have been a fan of his for a long-time. Unfortunately in this debate he gave the appearance of rambling. Although his message has underlying substance he lacked in delivery. I hope he gets the latter right during this campaign.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 17:05 | 1372613 dugorama
dugorama's picture

Missing here is RP's efforts against the Patriot Act and other extensions of a creeping police state.  He may be the only active politician who appreciates the dangers inherent in overly broad police powers.  Certainly rolling back / overturning the Patriot Act / Dept Hmland Securitie will need leadership from the top.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:00 | 1369372 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

END the FED!

Like RP says, They will destroy themselves.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:26 | 1369432 g
g's picture

That is true, but they will take the rest of the system with them, which will not be beneficial initially.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:30 | 1369580 cossack55
cossack55's picture

No pain, no gain.  If LIBERTY is the goal, fuck the pain. Destroy the fuckin' FED.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:11 | 1369853 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

History suggests they won't go down without a fight.

When President Jackson declared war against the Second Bank, they didn't leave without a intentionally causing one of the worst depressions in U.S. History.

I presume it will be no different this time

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:19 | 1369547 johnnyBoy
johnnyBoy's picture

Put a Ron Paul 2012 sticker on the back of my car.  When I see an Obama sticker on antoher car I get in front and tap my breaks to make sure they are paying attention.  I live in northern California near the SF Bay Area so I am tapping my breaks alot.  Somehow very gratifying for me while out looking for a job!

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:27 | 1369569 DavidC
DavidC's picture

They are brakes, not breaks.


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:47 | 1369628 johnnyBoy
johnnyBoy's picture

My brain fart.  Thanks

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 10:06 | 1370754 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

You think that's leadership? You think that's noble, maybe persuasive??

That attitude is self-indulgent, capricious nonsense.  wattanumnutz.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:02 | 1369376 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Who wrote this shit?  Some misogynist?  Bachmann jumped in.

Seems like the author wants 4 MORE YEARS!

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:20 | 1369725 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

So, TD is fecal obssessed misogynist for posting a piece about the good man from Texas?

I am trying to follow the logic of your concern, but I am not getting it. Care to elaborate?



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:18 | 1369872 ping
ping's picture

I'm a fecal obsessed misogynist. We're not all bad.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:05 | 1369381 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Ron Paul would be my choice as well. Too bad he does not have a chance with the State Run Media against him.

He is the most coherently intellectual of the bunch, and he has been saying liberty above all else for over 25 years.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:08 | 1369394 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Don't repeat their lie. Power is derived from repetition. Ron Paul can win. Every time you hear someone say he can't, challenge their views. Ask which positions of his they disagree with, then dig in when they have no answer or a half-ass one. Or just hit em with a brick :D

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:28 | 1369442 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I agree, there is a small minority of both the left and the right that will never vote anything but a party ticket no matter how bad the candidate is, and that is in your face electoral vandalism, my brother votes that way, but I think the majority of Americans have just been waiting for an/any alternative, and just because the religious zeal of the Obama win is worn off now does not mean they will en masse pull the lever for a GOP'er.  Even die hard Obama supporters, not the ones for whom he is messiah they will never admit it, but the rest have come to a sad conclusion that he has done NOTHING, made no positive change and fed no new hope. 

Ron Paul can win, but I think he would have a better chance if he ran an insurgent independent bid ala Perot, or Nadir.  Perot actually did pretty well at what 13%?  Now I think a guy like Paul could get 30% in a near three way tie just by having his name on a ballot that was not identified by dem or rep. 

I have a hard time with his candidacy because I am gay and we came from less than zero fighting 40 years just for the right to be citizens without being arrested, beaten, or killed (life liberty and pursuit of happiness remember those?).  And we still are fighting for our rights, something the constitution says is our duty.  To have a man who gives even lip service to Xtianity and prayer is stepping back a decade or more in that struggle.  If another candidate should prevail it will be the end of America economically sure, but the way I look at it is if survival is not to be for all then it is not worth saving anyway, let the fucker burn.  You can no longer say to minorities and people you do not like that we have to be patient because there are survival level issues that have to be fixed before rights can be enjoyed by all, I say we are all in the same boat and we will get through it together or we will not get through it at all. 

I kind of like his approach to gay people in one way, he would get government out of such as marriages so he would not support my right to legally marry, but he would also not block it, and he would make marriage benefits that come from government equal for all, that is I get nothing for marrying but neither do you, no tax breaks for kids, or tax breaks for incomes, or rules about hospital visits, or laws about who you can leave what to, or who can be on your insurance policy, you=me.  Me=you, at last, I think you will really not like it, but at least it will be fair and equal. 

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:21 | 1369552 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture


Teddy Roosevelt: 'To educate a person in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society.'

Just sayin' ...

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:28 | 1369571 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Speaking of which, poor Hugh Hefner got left at the altar.  I hope he's not too lonely.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:45 | 1369797's picture

During that there debate a fella named Ron Paul said that government can't teach morality.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:30 | 1369975 ILikeBoats
ILikeBoats's picture

TR was talking about society, not government.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:18 | 1369555 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Yeah, but the "two party system" closed ranks after Perot and has done a pretty damn good job of excluding "unapproved" candidates.

While many folks may knock the Tea Party, in some cases legitimately, what does hold true is that its grass roots and the traditional republican power players do not hold the reigns so to speak, at least in the way they are used to. This is why they tried to define the movement as "national" with Palin at the lead. Once it is defined nationally, its media image can be controlled.

But I feel this "image" is false, because the Tea Party is really thousands of small local groups, most of whom are more focused on State and local elections (including getting local tea party candidates in local elections). The Dallas Tea Party held "boot camps", constitutional seminar series, and basic election/campaign training (i.e. how to run a campaign). All at the local level. If I was in a position to run for a local office in Dallas at the time, I would have had a whole community of people step in behind me as long as I shared their values. A whole community of non-republican-republicans.

I read a very, very insightful comment on this phenomenon back around the last election run up. Basically someone said that a savy politician will always run to the front of an angry crowd and pretend to be its leader. Chew on that a moment.

The traditional republican party has a mutiny on their hands and they know it. Consider for a moment that this is true. Just a thought experiment. Where would you see it? In the MSM? Of course not. In the traditional party media outlets? No. You would see it at local tea party rallies and via local tea party organizations.

Bachmann is in the race precisely to counter Paul and I have no down Palin will be in the race eventually. The reason; split the Tea Party vote three ways. This cycles back to my "Perot lesson" regarding unapproved candidates.

There is only one "tea party" candidate, if you embrace such notions, and that is the good man from Texas. Four more years of a broke d!ck leader and this republic is done.



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:31 | 1369572 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Bachman is a member of the ruling class. She has an LLM in taxation. She is a former IRS central planning agent. She is more complicit in the status quo than King George/Timmay is. Unless she pulls a double agent type explaination for her past, I do not know how the tea party could seriously consider her.


Edit: And Paul needs to drop the gold standard stuff. it is rediculous except as a metaphor/teaching device. That would be a 40 year old basing thier future worth to the planet based on youthfulness. The USA does not have any gold left in the ground.

And Palin can not pull it out. people remember when you quit a job like govenor, for no good reason, in the middle of an expect term for 4 years.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:37 | 1369588 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Bachmann also voted FOR the Gestapo Patriot Act Extension. Nuff said.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:15 | 1369710 wisefool
wisefool's picture

sure. I'll be honest, I pretty much assume that every/all our communications are being recorded, either by the government or by the telco's, both to sell stuff to us and steal our ideas. I mean you gotta laugh, when we get ranting about jim kramer, his ads show up here on zerohedge. So the patriot act does not really bother me, I have nothing to hide.

But again with bachman, unless she claims to be a reformed academic: meaning she comes right out and says "I did not realize how stupid the tax code was untill I actually had to implement it, and that is why I quit" then the tea party is either getting fooled, or we are getting fool by the tea party.

Status Quo priority list of two party system.

1. Fed Mandate: Low Unemployment

2. Tax Code: Social Engineering, Payolla/kick backs, maintain incentives for political class.

3. Fed mandate: Price controls. Use foodstamps when 1+2 get boring or aren't working

Problem is, as cooter mentioned, 1+2+3 aren't going to work anymore.  Both Perot and Nader saw it comming, but the parties squeezed them out.  So again, If Paul drops the gold standard stuff, but sound money advocates like us still support him in principle, the tea party has a shot. If Bachman says the tax code is just as  stupid as Obamacare cause she has read both bills, then the tea party has a shot. And Palin wants to be VP nothing more.

No other republican has a shot against hope and centrist Obama.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:31 | 1369768 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Actually, it is much better than what you suggest, sort of a glass half full/glass half empty. Let me explain. I am going to ramble for a short bit, but I will try to make it focused. I want to see if I can put something in context.

The first libraries were managed entirely by hand and had very poor technology. Because of this "cost", only very key information was persisted. Thus, libraries were almost exclusively for religious writings or financial data. Because of the medium, much was lost over time (papyrus, mud tablets, vellum).

In time, the printing press was invented. The ability to produce many copies of the same work (previously all done by hand) did three key things (1) the cost to publish anything was drastically reduced, (2) the potential audience for any given work grew, and (3) the likelihood the work survived over time was vastly increased. The printing press had immeasurable impacts on our species for these reasons. Ideas are powerful and they do change the course of our history (as a species).

The internet is, at its core, like the printing press except that it is hopped up on powers of ten because "its digital". Do each of you realize how many people read your thoughts when you publish something on ZH? A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Do not miss the scope or implications of this observation (research the author if you doubt his words).

We will all be dead and gone, for generations, but our writings here will be so easily accessible by any that want to search for them. Hundreds of years from now (or thousands should we best the energy beast), anyone who continuously publishs accurate material of interest will be read by young men and women pursuing knowledge in said field of expertise. This time period we now live in is very unique in many ways. Your voices will be heard your voice (text).

Technology is a tool, it is inheritly neither good, nor evil; like fire arms, used free a people, feed a people, or oppress a people. The future role of technology will contiue to be mixed, as it has been since the days fire was discovered.

But humanity has such greater access to ideas that I can only believe our future is brighter than it was 50 years ago or a 100 years ago.

That said, a heavy price must be paid for all this stupidity!



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:56 | 1369822 wisefool
wisefool's picture

Oh sure, I am not trying to advocate anything irresponsible, atleast that is not my intention. 

As you said, technology changes things, when the USA was set up as a two party system it allowed citizen politicians to get stuff done and then go home to farms, shops, and printing presses :)

In the modern age when we have an entire class of people dedicated to politics, social engineering and grand standing to the media, do you think it is wise to have only two opposing parties, where even minor conflicts and compromises generate thousands of pages of regulations and taxes?

So I head your warning, and I will try not to post anything offensive to the ages, but unlike the government, I can not force anyone to follow my rules at the end of a gun, nor would I want to.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:31 | 1369968 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

It was not my intent to silence your tongue, but instead to sharpen it, if that makes sense.

My only point is the "ZH community" is a book of sorts, being published in this new medium, and it will survive the years (book burnings were popular in the past for a reason). Further, future historians will have a unprecedented ability to peer into the daily lives, opinions, and thoughts of people living through this historic moment.

I pointed this opinion/observation at your concern about the DeptHLS, for purpose of compare/contrast. To each his/her own.



Wed, 06/15/2011 - 05:46 | 1370252 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

In the spirit of your post:  To the US Govt -- STOP ROBBING Peter to pay PAUL!

Our work or your gun(s), you cannot have both.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:22 | 1370042 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

Well said, Cooter. My hope is a few centuries from now we will wise up and reject all vestiges of central planning. Frankly, given the speed of technology and drive of history perhaps it will not take that long.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:32 | 1369443 malalingua
malalingua's picture

I concur Conrad Murray.  Ron Paul can win.  He has to win.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:23 | 1370045 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

His ideas have to win even if mouthed by another. I look for that, also.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:53 | 1369926 Shell Game
Shell Game's picture

++  Well said.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 07:45 | 1370361 dcb
dcb's picture

good observation. the establishment will say he can't win in order to deflect votes away from him.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:10 | 1369401 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Rodney Dangerfield gets more respect than poor Ron.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:26 | 1369433 buck4free
buck4free's picture


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:48 | 1369478 CrankItTo11
CrankItTo11's picture

Ron Paul really is the only hope.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 02:58 | 1370141 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Obi Ron Paul-Knowbie

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:10 | 1369535 AboutAverage
AboutAverage's picture

I agree don't repeat the criminal media's lie.


Ron Paul certainly and absolutely can win!   There is no doubt and if he does not win, then you can bet your last bottom dollar that 2016 will be the turning of this country.   The goons are finished.  The majority of people are onto the games and the blog boards are filled with Ron Paul supporters.  Additionally, Yahoo is censoring its blog boards quite horribly now and everyone knows that too.   The cat is out of the bag.  The goons are really nervous now.  

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:41 | 1369907 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture


I have had this debate many times in my voting career, I have a pretty succinct perspective nailed down (my first presidential vote was for Perot - the same year I enlisted).

Let us hypothetically say I would be in a grocery store at some point in my future and see a vet, who has difficulty walking, using a cane, buying groceries. He has the classic crazy ass vet jacket on, proclaiming his "pack" on his back (ship/batallion/etc) including some combat campaign badges.

I have always been of the opinion that I must always be ready to greet and thank the old man for his sacrifice. I must have the concience that I voted for the candidate I believed in and validated his sacrifice (and the sacrifice of those who didn't get a chance to grow old and shop in our proverbial tale). If instead I were to vote for candidate whom I thought would win, and I were to express as such to the old man, I would get my ass caned like Richard Lawrence.

I consider this proverb, in my own mind, every time I vote. I vote with my heart and I validate every knee, every life paid for my vote.

I wrap this tale in terms of veteran sacrifice, so I don't want that to impede the understand of those who may not relate. I know War is a Racket, but none of us knew that when we were 18.

To this day, I have a clear conscience.



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:05 | 1369382 IdioTsincracY
IdioTsincracY's picture

Much better video of Dr. Paul's views:

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:06 | 1369385 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

John King..."Mr Paul, how would you rate Chairman Bernankes performance so far"

Ron Paul..are you fucking kidding me, he deserves to be hanged in public for what he has done to the American people, he has singlehandedly ruined the livelihoods of millions of people and destroyed the futures of generations to come"

John King..You must read Zero Hedge mr Paul"

Ron paul.." you better fucking believe I do, because you morons on CNN don't know your ass from your elbow and have the world convinced that Obama is actually American and knows how to count to 10"

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:20 | 1369416 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

thanks for the laugh, i needed it.......GO RON!

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:12 | 1369392 samsara
samsara's picture
Well, with the last 3 elections, I think Mencken Peak has been reached.                .. . all the odds are on the man who is, intrinsically, the most devious and mediocre — the man who can most easily (and) adeptly disperse the notion that his mind is a virtual vacuum. The presidency tends, year by year, to go to such men. As democracy is perfected, the office represents, more closely, the inner soul of the people. We move toward a lofty ideal.  On some great and glorious day, the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last, and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron."   --   H.L. Mencken  July 26, 1920, wrote in The Baltimore Sun: " .
Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:38 | 1369780 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I love stuff like this! Thanks for sharing.

Politics has been, is, and always will be a macabre charade for the thinking man.

I seek solace in my cynacism these days, for it is my bunker, my last line of defence before I go batshit insane.



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:13 | 1369399 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Lost me at prayer and personal faith!  Did like his answer about marriage though, as long as all laws are equal I am happy.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:10 | 1369404 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

meanwhile Romney leering at him with that condescending glare... "what a quaint little old man, i can't wait to stick a shiv in his back..."

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:44 | 1369470 Bob
Bob's picture

I saw that.  What a bitch.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:54 | 1369495 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

Can you imagine how embarrassing it would be to have a president that wears magic underwear?

As Don King so often says..."only in America"...and what a sad sad truth that is:-(

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:01 | 1369517 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

+1... I wonder if any media whore will have the guts to ask him if he really believes some of the more ridiculous Book of Mormon nonsense...

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:05 | 1369937 QQQBall
QQQBall's picture

Book of Mormon = Cult Fiction? ;)

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:56 | 1370031 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

Joseph Smith was a Master Mason, and there are Masonic motifs in all the Mormon temples.

Mormons have their own "Zion" and seem to fit right in with the road amrka is headed down. . .

(and did you catch Glen Beck's T-shirt with the 16degree Mason badge? subtle.)


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:50 | 1369641 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture


Romney is a lighter shade of Obama - the quintessential status quo candidate.


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:20 | 1369411 hambone
hambone's picture

Pretty confident Paul would win the ZH straw poll (among actual candidates)...and run a close second to renouncing our federal governments over reach and returning to strong state / weak Fed rule.

Honestly, does anybody really think it will make any difference who the Pres is in 2012???  Seems options will be controlled demolition or spontaneous demolition but either way the debt we have built is coming down.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:13 | 1369714 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

A good question. The system will break no matter who is President. However, it's how you do the unwinding and what you build in its place. To me, that is where the real danger lies. This keynesian economic baloney is peaking and will crash. At that point the stupified public and even politicians will be looking for a solution. The traditional strong man (Hitler, FDR, Mao, Robespierre, etc.) will come to the fore and offer their solutions. Ron Paul or a similar type needs to be there to properly direct the reforms. That is where the battle for the future will be.

Historically speaking, liberty will lose and the strong man will win.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:40 | 1369785 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture




Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:18 | 1369418 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

I didn't hear another last night speak of ending the ridiculous spending in the military industrial complex. I don't believe there were more than ten people in the room who knew what he was talking about.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:24 | 1369425 hambone
hambone's picture

Agreed - general american hadn't a clue what Paul was talking bout...if he's at least to inform the discussion, he'll need to use some "common" words to make plain what he's talking bout and what's involved.  Pretty tough to do in 30 second spots though.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:49 | 1369481 Bob
Bob's picture

Yeah, I would guess that majority republican America sat dumbfounded by his animated incomprehensibility.  Few have the background to even fully understand what he said, much less agree with it.  Until I saw this (after passing on the debate), I thought he had a snowball's chance. 

Just sharing my perception--not arguing a damn thing otherwise.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:54 | 1369660 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture


"the general american hadn't a clue what Paul was talking bout..."


this was more true 4-6 years ago.  one look at Paul's fund-raising capacity tells me that planty of americans know exactly what Paul is talking about.


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:55 | 1369819 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I think this is probably the most important thing "we the people" can watch as it pertains to the good man from Texas being able to really show and win.

(Tyler: if you read this - consider the thought).

Back when Obama was running I told a drinking buddy of mine (retired AF officer) that Obama was going to be a Carter or a Reagan and there was no middle ground (this was before he really bumped out Hillary in the nomination). He is either going to have this Reagan like status for change or he is going to flounder like Carter (not to promote or pick on either - but in terms of legacy). I kind of expanded this to say he will win on the backs of the little guy, giving 5, 10, or 25 bucks and that is it. It changes the fund raising picture. Simple math says, if there are 300MM people in the US and only 1% give 10 bucks, that is A LOT of money for a candidate.

The elite can't compete with that, given current laws.

Boy, was I DRUNK ... but I think the idea is solid ... Obama tapped into a wellspring of disaffected voters and that did change the outcome of the race (it was Hillary's to lose IMHO).

The way to know if RP is going to moon shot or not is fundraising, and not big donors, but little donors. The $5 donors. The $25 donors. I make it a point to give little amounts, but often (I missed the  last money bomb - totally run over by real life and forgot about it).

If fundraising data can be accessed, I think it would be very interesting to see some breakdowns of how much came from what bracket. I would bet a 12pk of Shiner RP has the lowest average donation amount of any candidate by a huge margin. That means little guys/gals are backing RP where the "establishment candidates" (all of them except RP) are banking the big 30k checks by the boat loads.

This might be a worthwhile index by which to "out" the establishment funded candidates.

This all seems so common sense and hasn't showed up on my political radar, so maybe I am missing the obvious here. Would like some input if anyone out there works in political theatre for a living and thinks I am missing some fundamental concepts that make this idea stupid.



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:29 | 1369891 GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

You're right, lots of small donors.  Miniscule amount from PACs.  Top 3 donors: people from Army, Navy, Air Force.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:34 | 1369898 GreenSideUp
GreenSideUp's picture

You're right, lots of small donors.  Miniscule amount from PACs.  Top 3 donors: people from Army, Navy, Air Force.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:17 | 1369727 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I think more knew that you might believe. I really liked his answer on being the CIC and ordering troops back home. That was a very strong answer. Do you realize that there is no declarartion of war in any of the conflicts and in Libya there is not even an authorization to use force. Without a declaration of war a President is free to withdraw all troops. The use of force in Libya is a tremendous assertion of the power of the executive branch. Even some Democrats and modern liberals have a problem with this.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 06:59 | 1370296 hamurobby
hamurobby's picture

You bet I know, and the best part is, his justification for cutting spending by shutting down bases and wars is even more far reaching than US imperialism. He was talking about funding social security and medicare with the money spent on wars, what a concept! Everyone else was talking about reforming the system (ss, med) Ron Paul wants to redirect spending. There was at best a small golf clap after his rant, this is why I said either no one knows what he was talking about, or they dont want to hear of it. Either they have their hand in the money, or they believe without 150 bases around the world, the us will be invaded within 2 years. Full disclosure, Im 44 and dont get a dime from the government, and the last time I voted was for Ross Perot.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:24 | 1369419 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Was watching this last night, and i simply couldnt get past how he basically retorted to every single question by bringing up the Fed and his problems with it.

Thats fine, sir, but can you be at least multi-dimensional - especially when at such a critical juncture in the realm of republican politics?

Loved his stance on troops in Afgh, though not hot on his marriage stance. Will definitately retract from some hardcore conservatives who were also no doubt looking for a different answer.


PS - who else would do Bachmann?

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:26 | 1369438 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

Totally would do Bachmann.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:31 | 1369449 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

I could see myself getting behind Michele Bachmann.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:46 | 1369484 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

OH BOY, I always said Halloween should be a national holiday!  I would not trust that crazy cunt to run the post office no less the nation!   The only way I could get behind her is to stab her broom up her intricately puckered asshole. 

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:40 | 1369607 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Perhaps you would reread the comment to which I was replying, then click on this helpful link.

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 07:59 | 1370390 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Haha, classic

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:08 | 1369692 hound dog vigilante
hound dog vigilante's picture

"...some hardcore conservatives..."


marriage, abortion, DADT, etc. are NOT political issues.  true patriots/citizens are not interested in these issues in a political sense.  these "social" issues + foreign policy are exactly what is dividing the GOP now.  the theocrats need to get out of politics, and the patriots need to hijack this next election.


by aug. 2012 - in the midst of a Fed-induced economic depression - Ron Paul will be looking mighty attractive to a whole lot of people who don't know his name right now...

folks who are writing-off RP are the same folks who thought the Tea Party was astroturf.


Wed, 06/15/2011 - 02:58 | 1370035 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

"abortion" is an issue for Ron Paul's son.

[edit: junk me anonymously, but it's the truth, fanboys]

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 22:25 | 1369740 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I have changed my mind on the marriage thing over time. If you believe in the proposition that you own yourself then you are free to make any contracts or covenants you wish with others. You don't have to personally "believe" in gay marriage. However, if you wish to assert your liberty then you have to allow gay people to own themselves and enter into their own contracts. The State really has no standing. Last I checked, when a Saudi diplomat arrives in Washington we don't make him divorce three of his four wives.

I think gay marriage is a states' issue and an issue of liberty.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:52 | 1369921 Melville1977
Melville1977's picture

I was wondering what kind of panties she was wearing under that classy outfit. Maybe she's a thonger : )

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 01:21 | 1370037 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

don't forget to vote, all you drooling dudes.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:30 | 1369434 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

I'd go for a Ron Paul + Herman Cain ticket, out of those up there.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:28 | 1369440 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Avoid Herman Cain like the plague...

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:32 | 1369454 malalingua
malalingua's picture

since you are a Ron Paul supporter thought you might enjoy this.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:52 | 1369492 PuppetRepubl1c
PuppetRepubl1c's picture



great link!  Optimus Paul all the way!!!  :P

Wed, 06/15/2011 - 00:14 | 1369947 The Matrix
The Matrix's picture

This is my favorite Ron Paul video.  An very creative and accurate depiction of the  "systems" reaction to his 2008 campaign.  Look at the characters carefully.  They are all still at work spreading lies and deception.


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:33 | 1369456 gbresnahan
gbresnahan's picture

Yikes. Thanks for the link.  I keep forgetting he worked for the fed.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:38 | 1369460 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

No problem. Knowledge is power. Please pass it around as there are A LOT of people thinking the same way, just look at the Fox News poll in the first reply to this article.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:05 | 1369840 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Yup, I had no idea Cain was a fed stooge. I caught your comments on a thread last night and I quickly marked him off my list (to vote for - just in case you are Dept HLS).



Tue, 06/14/2011 - 23:07 | 1369849 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

It's pretty sad how they're pushing him. Everyone introduces him as the Godfather's Pizza guy. Nobody wants to talk about his role in the Kansas City Fed. Dangerous man on that count alone. Really suspicious.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:42 | 1369472 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Herman Cain?  Never heard of him.  Erika Cain's daddy?

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:01 | 1369510 samsara
samsara's picture

Ron Paul   President


Jesse Ventura    Vice President


THAT scare many people sh!tless just thinking about what they would do.  

Both are uncontrollable and uncompromisable. 

I would sell popcorn for that.  It would be something.


Tue, 06/14/2011 - 21:39 | 1369604 Armando Javier ...
Armando Javier Finkeltein of the Boise Finkelsteins's picture

That would be a dream ticket for me.

Tue, 06/14/2011 - 20:27 | 1369436 g
g's picture

Ron Paul, one voice of sanity in DC. Cain speaks well and has good points to, but he could just be full of bluster.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!